The timing is the unusual part of the story, but as GM Scott Howson explains the final list is in and this gives Boyd a chance to get a head start on another job.
It's a cold, cold business.
Interesting story for the Oilers and their fans because there have been rumors that the Columbus pick is available. I expect this draft is going to be a wild ride.
Very strange timing indeed. Would seem an indication that they are prepared to make a bold statement at the draft table, I hope we are somehow involved.
ReplyDeleteColumbus could be my bandwagon team - I love that name and the uniform.
ReplyDeleteHaving said this, it's got to be one of the worst fucking teams management wise since the 1971 Pittburgh Penguins.
Strange thing is, you'd think you would need your head scout at the table even more for your later picks than your earlier picks. The top picks are well known by the GM. He can pick who he wants or trade as he sees fit. Wouldn't it help to have your head scout at the draft when someone's making you an offer for a 2nd or 3rd round pick? Who do you pick in the 4th or 5th round when everyone you had been targeting in that range has been picked already?
ReplyDeleteTo echo LT and dawgtoy... strange timing indeed.
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ReplyDeleteBut if you are getting nothing through the draft because the system is broken then trade the high draft pick for known entity's and get a new head scout. When STU TMB can find better players low in the draft then most of Columbus's high picks you know where the problem is. I bet that #1 pick is traded for sure.
ReplyDeleteStrange timing indeed,but after a quick look at their draft record,long overdue.
ReplyDeleteOff-topic, but does anyone have face-off numbers for RNH?
ReplyDeleteMaybe it got lost in the EV/PP, too-small debate but I haven't even heard anything about him on the dot.
I continue to not understand the NHL trade rules. My impression was that no trades were allowed from the deadline to the end of the playoffs, but that obviously isn't the case.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone know exactly what the rules are? I mean, would Boston or Vancouver have been allowed to pull a deal for Bryzgalov's rights this week but just not allowed to play him?
Can you only make trades at this time of year involving FAs, picks, and guys who haven't signed contracts yet?
And at what point exactly after the deadline did these deals become fair game again?
ReplyDeleteseems like howson is tired of going into the draft woefully under prepared! i like this move. it gives the remainder of the scouts 2 weeks to collect their notes and know that they're under direct mgt supervision. as was said this should have been done a few years ago - there's some pendergast in their dept.
ReplyDeletei thought howson would be a better GM
inelec - what people have when they don't have intellect
Scott Howson has fired everybody but himself. He is a graduate of the KLowe school of "misfuckingmanagement". Nuff said.
ReplyDeleteIn fairness to Howson, the organization seemed to be shit top-to-bottom when he walked in the door. Since then they've had a mixed record, which should be noted as an improvement to his credit.
ReplyDeletechuthili - Imitation cthulhu chili?
If the avs are so high on RNH, do you see about the ol 1 and 19 for 2 and11 swap?
ReplyDeleteFrom my understanding trades of all kinds are permitted once the playoffs start, but any player traded for cannot be added to your roster. It's very rare for trades to happen in this period but it does happen, and for contending teams (i.e. Boston, Vancouver) all their energy is being concentrated on winning, not worrying about trades or locking up FAs.
ReplyDelete"I thought Howson would be a better GM."Don't be so quick to judge as This move took serious nards. It will allow a free discussion in the room from the scouts. If they have been in an environment were free thinking is crushed and you keep your job by/for agreeing with the head scout then this is what the doctor ordered. Howson may be even be looking to promote from with in. It will be interesting. Leadership is a very tenuous thing it takes both following and listening skills. Such men are hard to find as pride gets in the way. We may call Stu Magnificent but I can bet that what makes him do such a good job is the trust and delegating ability he has in all those other scouts if they know that they are free to disagree with Stu so long as they have their facts straight. It makes for better decisions and he will come to their side in the discussion even leaving his own point of view on the table for a better one. In other words a team not a dictatorship. This is what Columbus is looking for! True Leadership.
ReplyDeleteSounds like a good time to hire the guy as a "Draft Consultant", if you ask me...
ReplyDeleteThe timing does not seem strange to me. I would bet that the two head scouts gave Howson their draft choices and their rational for them (in written and/or verbal form) and that Howson looked at it, was disappointed with the quality of it, and pulled the plug.
ReplyDelete"I just thought it was time. I didn't want them to be hanging out there, wondering. The quicker you inform people, the more time they have to find work."
ReplyDeleteHowson phoned Boyd and Strumm yesterday to tell them that their contracts, set to expire June30, would not be renewed. Both were original employees, hired before the expansion franchise began play in 2000-01.
Credit to Howson for communicating clearly and promptly to the people not getting renewed.
So.. who can we send to the Jackets for the #8 pick and Hejda?
ReplyDeleteHejda is UFA.
ReplyDeleteMontreal did a similar move before the 2003 draft.
ReplyDeleteIf I remember correctly Trevor Timmins had only the combine and private exercises to decide on which prospect he would plunk. They got Andrei. Wasn't a bad, or good pick. Middle.
More bizarre calls for all Canadians to cheer for Vancouver's team. Frankly I am sick of the media pressure "to bring the cup to Canada", and was proud last night when my son told his soccer coach he was cheering for the Bruins (he's seven and on his way to being a very bright kid, based on that).
ReplyDeleteWhy have division rivalries if nationalism is going to supersede all other considerations?
waries - what I am of the Globe and Mail
Yah, I'm with bookie. It seems reasonable that a changeover happens when major pieces of work are making their way up the food chain. It is strange in the sense that it leaves them a bit in the lurch for the draft but they have the info and if it was considered not up to standard or not fitting for the organization than leaving the person in charge would have only created friction/problems on draft day.
ReplyDeleteHexty2001: That's the way I understand it too.
ReplyDeleteThese two paragraphs are very telling.
ReplyDeleteDespite having a pick in the top eight in 10 of their previous 11 drafts, the Blue Jackets have selected only one All-Star - Rick Nash.
But it's widely known that former Blue Jackets general manager Doug MacLean had a heavy hand in the draft. In 2005, for instance, MacLean overruled plans to draft Anze Kopitar, now a No.1 center for Los Angeles, and selected Gilbert Brule, who's now a third-liner for Edmonton.
Doug Mclean, "a good hockey guy"
The best part of listening to Mclean on Stauffer's show or on SN is how he has zero self awareness.
Listening to him revel in Howson's problems, many of them Mclean caused, was the icing on the cake.
Doug Maclean...it absolutely baffles me how anyone can consider him a hockey expert and he can pontificate.
ReplyDeleteMilbury is another one, but at least Milbury listened to his scouts and drafted pretty well, even if he traded them all away at 2 cents on the dollar.
As bad as Vish was at the end of his "official" tenure as GM, I don't think anyone in the last 20 years compares to Doug McLean for incompetence as a GM.
ReplyDelete@ uni: Never thought about it the way you said it with Milbury - but that's an interesting point. The Islanders did draft well while he was GM with more than a fair share of hits along the way.
But both of these guys are examples of the Peter Principle - being promoted to the point of incompetence. They were fine behind the bench of their teams (yeah, McLean took Florida and that dreadful brand of hockey in the dead puck era to the finals), but completely out of their depth as GM's.
As bad as Vish was at the end of his "official" tenure as GM, I don't think anyone in the last 20 years compares to Doug McLean for incompetence as a GM.
ReplyDeleteDon Wadell can give McLean a run for his money.
I don't understand why the media wants me to cheer for one of the clubs I dislike the most because they play in Canada either.
Its the club championship, not World Championship, and I really dislike that club.
As for the cup "coming home" to Canada. It will probably spend more time in Canada if Boston wins compared to Vancouver.
Flying up to Whale Channel (near Bella Bella) to do some fishing tomorrow so I'm spending the night in VAN and get to watch the game in a pub full of Dys fans.
ReplyDeleteJoy.
Might hit a sports shop and pick up a Bruin t-shirt or something to help the comedy along.
Might hit a sports shop and pick up a Bruin t-shirt or something to help the comedy along.
ReplyDeleteWish I could be there to witness that! Have a great time fishing. (and if you need help eating it, I will be in Edmonton early in July)
This is from Aaron Portzline (CBJ beat writer):
ReplyDelete"Sources tell The Dispatch that the Blue Jackets have also discussed the No. 8 pick with the Edmonton Oilers. Who's the target? Howson has long coveted winger Ales Hemsky, despite his recurring bout with injuries, but it's unlikely it would be a straight-up deal. The Oilers, in the second year of a massive youth movement, are said to be trying to unload defenseman Tom Gilbert."
He also mentions they are talking to Philly about Voracek and #8 for Carter (possibly).
I don't know how it puts the first pick in play, though. Buddy would have a pretty good idea what to do at 8, and if he didn't he could always come over here and ask The Kid :-)
ReplyDeleteFurther down you might see some action, but you don't imagine a GM is afraid to name a player because his scout is not sitting beside him. At 8 figure there's 4-5 guys considered 'on the board', he takes one. No big deal. If he's flipping it for an established player, that's for reasons not concerning gassing the scouts, imo.
The Oilers, in the second year of a massive youth movement, are said to be trying to unload defenseman Tom Gilbert."
ReplyDelete"Unload" one of two Actual NHL Dmen on the team.
Brilliant.
Lottery next year if the D remains thin (or gets thinner if 77 goes) regardless of how the kids progress or DD plays.
That Tom Gilbert is even coming up in rumors can't be a good thing. The hell's the matter with having someone on the blue who can play the game? Or is it the beginning of TJ3, let's hope bloody not.
ReplyDeleteI'd probably find a Hemsky deal more defensible than a Gilbert deal. With Hemsky you should be able to get a very nice return and there are real injury concerns going forward. With Gilbert you'll probably get peanuts at best -- he is the kind of player that is undervalued in this league -- and there is zero concern that he'll still be playing solid minutes when the kids start to turn the corner.
ReplyDeleteThough if I were Gilbert I would have put in my trade request two years ago.
*Not saying he has requested a trade.
ReplyDeleteKnowing that this is a baseball-friendly environment, I happened to check out some of the latest vids of Bryce Harper on youtube...if you get a chance, listen to some of the home runs he hits...that is some sound. Kid's going to be absolute money and right quick. He's tearing the cover off it.
ReplyDeleteI think I would have a hard time with any deal for #8 that stays at #8. If we really aren't done tearing it down, and I'm gonna suffer another season, then they better make a giant splash.
ReplyDeleteI said a while back that if they tried to dangle something for Seguin AND Hall last year, that they should do the same for Larsson AND RNH this year.
Otherwise, trading established NHL veterans for a pick where most people feel the draft starts to take a drop is bad business.
WG, can't wait till Wadell gets a gig on TSN/CBC/SN. Only reason I didn't mention him is because he doesn't have a national soapbox yet.
ReplyDeleteWith all the arrows pointing at Nugent-Hopkins being named by the Oilers I've all but given up hope of Larsson in Oilers silks. Oh well any excuse to have them play Stranglehold at games would be welcome.
MacKenzie saying Flyers don't want to move Carter.
ReplyDelete@gogliano: If you think puck-moving minute munchers are undervalued in this league, you should check out Cap Geek or nhlnumbers.com. I would argue that there is more undervaluing of such players among fans.
ReplyDeleteStill, would be awfully nice to see Gilbert return to somewhere close to the 40-point level. Most of those top guys bring quite a bit of offence, and Gilbert's production has backslid which is concerning. And right now that factor probably does lower his value.
Matty brought up the idea of a Gilbert + #19 = #8 equation last week. We ran a poll at the Cult of Hockey and 500 voters) preferred to hang on to Gilbert. I was pleasantly surprised to tell you the truth, I thought there'd be more Gilbert hate and trade-up love out there than that.
MacKenzie saying Flyers don't want to move Carter.
ReplyDeleteIf they sign Bryz, and the guys with NTC/NMC don't want to move, Holmgren might not have a choice.
@Woodguy
ReplyDeleteI spent last weekend at my in-laws family reunion on Van Isle and sported B's gear all weekend. Needless to say, I took a pretty hard ride on Saturday night, but the sounds of silence amongst the masses huddled around the TV's in the airport on Monday evening was priceless. The only noise was the constant thud of Dys fans bailing off the bandwagon. I hope they all kept the tags on their shiny new jerseys for easy returns.
Best of luck in Bella Bella, bring back something delicious
WG: They might have a little flexibility if they get creative with player movement outside of their big contracts.
ReplyDeleteAssuming the cap increase to about $62.5M, this would give the Flyers $3.5M in cap room with 18 players under contract. Let's assume that with the acquisition of Bryzgalov, they dump Bobrovsky or Leighton in the minors, saving at least $1.5M. This would leave them with 18 players under contract and basically no room left under the cap.
If they could find a way to move the contracts of Versteeg and Carle (the two players specifically mentioned by McKenzie), they'd open up $6.5M in cap room with 16 players signed. They could still give Leino $2M and leave $4.5M to sign 4-6 players. Obviously, they'd have to be low-end acquisitions, but they could stay under the cap without moving Carter.
Then again, this may simply be posturing on the part of the Flyers to make it clear that while they might part with Carter, it would require a hefty price in prospects.
I can get moving Gilbert from their standpoint.
ReplyDeleteThe fanbase seems to view Gilbert as a whipping boy. (Along with Horcoff but they can't move him)
I'm guessing they're also looking at the 2012 draft and thinking Nail Yakupov would be pretty amazing. If not, Grigorenko and guys like Ryan Murray look like blue chippers.
So best of both worlds. Trade a guy that makes you worse now but the fanbase won't realize or care about and get another lottery pick. Exciting stuff.
@ smarmy boss.
ReplyDeleteI get what you're saying, but sooner or later you have to start trying to win.
Of course you do. I'm not advocating their stance. I'm tired of this team being bad.
ReplyDeleteI was one of the dudes that believed the Oilers were deliberately tanking last year and while it's too early to say right now. I think we can say that if they're dealing Hemsky and/or Gilbert they're probably looking at being bad another year.
@SB: Some of the fanbase views Gilbert as a whipping boy. Judging from the poll cited above, they are actually in the minority. They're just noisy. :p
ReplyDeleteLeaving aside the angst it would generate amongst fans, trying to tank for a third straight year is a risky and potentially unsuccessful strategy. The Oilers may have been 30th this year, but they needed a lot of help from injuries. A healthy season from one of Whitney or Horcoff alone might have been enough to move them up to 29th. Relatively full seasons from all their major players probably puts them in the realm of 23-26th in the league.
ReplyDeleteNext year, there's even more potential uncertainty regarding the talent of this team. The Oilers have a plethora of young players who will be hoping to take the next step. Sure, there's always the possiblity of a mass sophmore slump leading to another bottom 3 finish, but what if the opposite occurs? What if DD learns to win shootouts or Omark leads a resurgent powerplay? What if Hall proceeds on a Stamkos-like trajectory and flirts with 35-40G? All of a sudden, the Oilers can't finish in the bottom, but they're not a playoff team.
If I have one main concern with management this offseason it's that I don't think they're fully aware of difficult it is to "achieve" multiple 30th place finishes. Tanking to the 8th overall pick doesn't help anything.
It's not so much if they deal Hemsky &/or Gilbert (neither of which I'd like to see), but more do they improve the roster with outside players. I think it's reasonable to say the fans have been more than patient and with the existing youth + the #1 it's time to quit jerking around and sign some proper help.
ReplyDeleteAs i type i have no faith that will happen :(
Cactus,
ReplyDeleteAgreed that its possible, but very tough. Will make for an interesting draft for sure.
Randford4life,
Last time I caught a Halibut that weighed in at 103lbs and dressed out at 45lbs of awesomeness. Came home with 123lbs of Halibut, Salmon, Red eye (snapper), black cod and ling cod. Hope I can come close again.
Smarmy,
That would dovetail well with their stated intentions. Maybe both 83 and 77 get turned into picks this year?
Woodguy: Is that kind of a catch like owning a Porsche, or is it more like having a Volvo?
ReplyDelete:D
Woodguy: I'm insanely jealous. Went on a company junket to the west coast of Queen Charlotte Island some time ago and returned with a freezer full of fish. I miss those halibut steaks something fierce.
ReplyDeleteBruce,
ReplyDeleteMore like a water logged 4x8 sheet of plywood. You can drag a fish like that up, you just aim it. Caught the monster in just over 500 feet of water. 1 1/2 hr of pure torture reeling him in (has tennis elbow at the time too, lordy).
Mag,
Thanks! Love Haida Gwaii too. Have fished the west side a few times, always amazing.
Oops,
ReplyDeleteBruce,
You can't drag a fish like that up. You just have to aim.
WG:
ReplyDeleteDon't remember the exact recipe,but had a relative that made a 1/2 mustard,1/2 mayo paste + some herbs that he would coat the inside of the salmon with.Then wrapped it in tinfoil and tossed it on the bbq.The salmon would poach in this sauce.It was to die for.
Woodguy/Cactus:
ReplyDeleteDon't forget Philly will probably lose Laperierre's cap hit to LTIR and that combined with the cap increase means they probably have about 4 million to start with. I think they'll end up moving Coburn. Terribly overrated IMO, good draft pedigree but not worth the price tag and easily replaceable. Someone will take him.
And by someone I mean the Oilers...after they trade Gilbert and Hemsky for the #8 :-I
@Bar Qu: Exactly how I feel. I'm sick of the "Canucks Cup Quest" banner floating all day on TSN.
ReplyDeleteToo bad there's no way to get a Bruins flag to fly on my car.
Absolutely strange. I never saw this before.
ReplyDeleteTouch Typing | Touch Typing Software
Bettman mellowing out?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=368346