Comes a time when you settle down
Comes a light feelin's liftin'
Lift that baby right up off the ground.
Oh, this old world keeps spinning round
It's a wonder tall trees ain't layin' down
There comes a time.
You and I we were captured
We took our souls and we flew away
We were right we were giving
That's how we kept
what we gave away.
Oh, this old world keeps spinning round
It's a wonder tall trees ain't layin' down
There comes a time.
-Neil Young
You know, Ryan Smyth is the perfect mentor for these young Oilers. He bleeds copper and blue. I don't know that the cost--however severe--is as much an issue with this player as it would be with any other. Fracture is a terrible thing, and the Oilers, their fans, and ownership haven't been the same since he left.
Ryan Smyth is one of us. Bob McKenzie wrote today that Smyth had requested a trade to Edmonton (since denied by Smyth, but McKenzie stands by his original story); it sounds like there will be a window of oppportunity sooner or later. Steve Tambellini needs to make it happen and put things right.
Comes a Time.
love it.
ReplyDeleteEven if we are gong to hell in a hand bag would love to watch this guy show the boys what copper and blue should mean.
I am hoping to hell he comes back, please Tamby.
ReplyDeleteSmyth and Simmonds, 2nd and 3rd rounder (2012) for Hemmer, Brule or Cogs?
ReplyDeleteLA needs plug and plays they are running out of time.
That gives 1.5 mil more cap and a way better top end (Smyth for Hemsky)
Brule or Cogs gives them a body that can debateably have an impact. We get the captain, simmonds (who is the kind of guy we need on the 2nd or 3rd line) and a couple more bullets next year.
LA has a bit of a backlog of prospects right now as is.
Don't we already have LAK's 2nd or 3rd rounder in 2012?
ReplyDeleteNot sure what to make of this, but Matheson quotes Smyth as saying he hasn't asked LA for a trade. If it's true, he and the Kings have a little damage control to do if he ends up staying with them. Would love to have him back though playing 2nd/3rd line LW.
ReplyDeletehttp://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2011/06/20/wrighting-a-wrong-in-the-smyth-trade/
ReplyDeleteDon't overpay. We'll been screwed in these deals the opposite way around for years.
ReplyDeleteI really hope this pushes forward the desire to win again. There's an opportunity to start going for it in a real way and we've built enough of a base.
I'm not a very big Ryan Smyth fan; I still hold a grudge against him for what didn't happen in 2006, but if you can make a reasonable deal that doesn't send an impact player or one of the really solid young guys back, then sure. He's a real NHLer still.
No way do the Oilers deal Hemsky for a 35 year old, unless Schenn comes with him.
ReplyDeleteThe Kings aren't going to take our garbage, and it needs to be fair for both teams.
So I'm thinking that some of our RFAs due a decent raise would be the prime trade target.
Maybe Cogliano and Smid for Smyth, one of the Kings defenseman prospects (someone certainly better than Teubert) and a 2012 2nd-3rd rounder would work for both sides
Send them Teubert.
ReplyDeleteThe hustle, the effort, the class, the respect for the fans... there's so much our kids could learn from this guy who was born with an Oiler crest for a heart.
ReplyDeleteWe miss you too Ryan. Please come home.
Unless Lombardi wants the world, the moon, the universe, in which case, sayonara baby.
With the Drury situation in NY, if the Kings were to dump Smyth's paycheck, I gotta think they're frontrunners for Richards.
Send them Jones and tell them we're replacing 80% of the goals they lost.
ReplyDeleteDon't make decisions based on the past, make them based on the future.
ReplyDeleteRule 1 for NHL GMs?
Nice pick up for nostalgia purposes. Doesn't seem to make much sense beyond that unless the outgoings are nominal to the max.
This deal can't happen fast enough in my books.
ReplyDeleteIt won't take much to extract Smitty from the Kings.
Whether it's a guy like Brule and/or a 3rd rounder should just about do the trick.
Making the deal anymore than that just complicates this needlessly. I don't think Lombardi wants anyone off the Oilers roster not named Hemsky, Hall, Paajarvi, Eberle or the 1st overall. And, I would be surprised to see him move any young prospects to get Hemsky for only 1 guaranteed year. He might like Omark but I'm not dealing him for Smyth.
Git er done!
spOILer
ReplyDeleteLA would love that cap room. Hence I think Calgarys 3rd rounder for Smyth is about what it would take.
I'd do that in a second.
Don't we already have LAK's 2nd or 3rd rounder in 2012?
ReplyDeleteYes,3rd rounder,and that's about all I would offer in a deal for Smyth.
I'd love to have Smytty back,but I wouldn't pay a whole lot-we could toss in Stortini or Chorney as sweetener.:)
If Kalowebellini makes this deal then it truly confirms they don't know what they're doing... although we've suspected that for some time. If you going youth with some vets sprinkled then stick with it.
ReplyDeleteMacT update from Dreger...
ReplyDeleteCraig MacTavish also told he's out in Wpg. Down to Noel and Haviland.
I don't think it's that great a plan. That $4.5-6m could provide for a couple of decent plug and play types I bet. MPS to the third line? Hall to second? Have to think they'd plug Smyth in with H & H.
ReplyDeleteSentimentality doesn't build cup contenders and IMO there's better ways to spend $6+ M, assuming they are capable.
We rebuilding or reliving past glories here? Somebody needs to decide which it is.
Send LA Brule and a middling pick. Nothing in the top 100.
ReplyDeleteLA has gone big game hunting for a few offseasons in a row. They are probably considering it again this season. Considering Smyth's cap hit and his production this past season, I can't help but draw the inference that LA is considering waiving, buying out, or demoting him.
Meehan getting Smyth traded to Edmonton helps Smyth get paid fully for his contract, helps the Kings clear his cap hit, and yes, maybe Smyth ends up where he belongs.
If Tambellini sends away good value for Smyth he won't be crucified in this town, but I think it would count as a blemish on his record.
folumbut
WTF did we trade Penner if a 35 yr old $4.5 per LW'er is now being considered?
ReplyDeleteThat's really inappropriate. I respect Smyth as a player, and maybe there are extenuating circumstances, maybe his wife is unhappy and has been ragging on him. I dunno.
ReplyDeleteStill, he signed a contract and he should honour it. His behavior here is shameful. Not far off Lindros, Pronger, Heatley and others.
Vic: He didn't ask for the trade as per Matty:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.edmontonjournal.com/sports/Ryan+Smyth+denies+asked+traded+back+Oilers/4977570/story.html
LA didn't seem too interested from the article, but we have no idea how much of that is posturing for negotiation. We don't know yet how much Smyth would push a trade if nothing gets done. The Kings have a fair chunk of cap space already so I don't know how desperate LA would be or how serious they are for Richards.
ReplyDeleteWould be nice to see them get it done though, for a reasonable price. If the year works out, and it's a contract year, go on one year deals.
No trade? Wonder what the hell was the source for this rumour?
ReplyDeleteCraig MacTavish also told he's out in Wpg. Down to Noel and Haviland.
ReplyDeleteHuh? Guess Wpg and Minny weren't on the list of 25 teams who'd be lined up. Or they just missed the memo.
As long as he comes with the understanding that any future contract will be a year at at time and at "low" pay.
ReplyDeleteHartikainen and Hamilton are ready in another 12 months.
Exaxtly godot.
ReplyDeleteAlso running a line of smyth-horc-hemsky is smart. They play the toughs. The kids get an easier go. The goal is to win games right?
Think of all he could teach mps about parrking in front...its a one year deal so who cares.
LT, you doing a piece on this I hope?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=369530
Can't imagine RNH isn't picked #1 at this point.
Twitter from a King's beat writer:
ReplyDeleteHelene Elliott
helenenothelen Helene Elliott
family reasons. kings and oilers have had trade talks but talks have dragged.
1 minute ago
Helene Elliott
helenenothelen Helene Elliott
Dean lombardi confirms he had talks with Ryan Smyth "but I would like to keep those discussions private." other source: smyth wants out for
That's really inappropriate. I respect Smyth as a player, and maybe there are extenuating circumstances, maybe his wife is unhappy and has been ragging on him. I dunno.
ReplyDeleteStill, he signed a contract and he should honour it. His behavior here is shameful. Not far off Lindros, Pronger, Heatley and others.
Didn't seem to bother Colorado when they asked him to waive his no-trade clause.
I was consistent with this when Pronger asked to be moved. Nothing wrong with saying you want out. Nothing wrong with saying it publicly. If the Kings say no, I have no doubt that he'll bust his ass this year for them.
L.A might be willing to do a deal with Smyth to give them cap room to take a run at Brad Richards. Richards is exactly the player that is missing from that Kings line up. It might cost the Oilers; be a player (Brule), medium - high prospect (??) and a 3rd rounder to get the deal done. Both teams would win in this situation.
ReplyDelete@DSF
ReplyDeleteWhat's that old saying "where there's smoke, there's fire" Interesting :)
Pretty much confirms McKenzie's story.
ReplyDeleteSmyth wants to come back for family reasons.
If he comes home, even I will shed tears.
ReplyDelete;__;
Manly tears,, of course.
So a wife has demanded a player come TO edmonton?
ReplyDeletePlan the freaking parade.
30 Helene's agree:
ReplyDeleteRyan Smyth asked for a trade.
Maverick,
ReplyDeleteThe saying is: "Where there is smoke, there is fire."
It might cost the Oilers; be a player (Brule), medium - high prospect (??) and a 3rd rounder to get the deal done. Both teams would win in this situation.
ReplyDeleteWouldn't cost that much for the reason you figure and the Kings don't have a lot of leverage in this situation.
Sentimentality doesn't build cup contenders
ReplyDeleteNope, but mentorship doesn't hurt.
Smyth wants to come back, it rights a wrong when a couple of ego's got in the way of common sense.
ReplyDeleteJust get the deal done. You can give me lots of good arguments why not - he's old, he won't play 82 games, blah, blah.
Go back to the season ending interviews. This team needs some steadying vet presence. Smyth fits it to a tee.
@ Kris - thanks, I was close.
ReplyDeleteSmarmy Boss - if it would cost less to make this happen I would be pleased. Having 94 back in Oiler colors would be a good addition to the community and the team.
Bobby Mac the most popular man in Edmonton today?
ReplyDeleteFirst this (which I'm vehomently for, so long as the asset cost is as cheap as I'd imagine) and now he has his top 60 out.
Oilers would walk away with RNH, McNeil and Namestikov.
RNH and McNeil... oddly reminiscent of when he had Paajarvi at #10 and it seemed like it was way too good to be true...
I'll take a Ryan Smyth denial straight to Matheson over a bunch of sources.
ReplyDeleteEither that or Smytty has taken too many hits to the head.
So we have Matheson with a flat out denial, but Helene Elliott has a confirmation from an involved party... Bobby Mac broke it.
ReplyDeleteDon't know where this leaves Matty in the pecking order of the Hockey World.
Blogger Smarmy Boss said...
ReplyDelete"Wouldn't cost that much for the reason you figure and the Kings don't have a lot of leverage in this situation."
The Kings have all the leverage...they have Smyth under contract.
Smyth isn't the kind of guy to pout if Lombardi can't get a deal done.
The Oilers have too many small forwards looking for employment in the top 6.
It's time to cull the herd and LA has a boatload of prospects that a creative GM (oh, wait) could bring into play here.
Brule, Cogliano, Gagner and Omark should all be in play for a multi player deal.
2011-2012 Cap: $64M (according to McKenzie)
ReplyDeleteLA Kings Cap Room: $16M
Doughty signing: -$6M in cap room (a long deal might get the cap hit lower, but any lower than $5.9M risks an RFA attempt).
That leaves $10M to sign 4 forwards and a seventh defenceman.
If they want Richards and he gets a big deal ($7M per) they'll almost have to move someone else to gain the room to round out their roster. If they're not going for Richards, they can afford to wait out Smyth.
PDO:
ReplyDeleteAgreed on RNH and McNeill. That would be perfect. I would be okay with Puempel or Klefbom too.
I was pretty happy to see McKenzie place Brodin in the top 10 too. First I've seen him in a top 10 other than my own list, so the validation was nice.
This is the second time I've seen negative comments about Beaulieu's ability to pivot, and that has to be a bit of a warning bell.
Vic Ferrari: Difference between requesting a trade, and not playing as a threat.
ReplyDeleteDoug Gilmour's in the basket too.
Still, he signed a contract and he should honour it. His behavior here is shameful. Not far off Lindros, Pronger, Heatley and others.
ReplyDeleteThe situation isn't comparable. Pronger used the Oilers to land what was at that time, one of the top contracts in the league. Pronger really had no intention of playing out his contract.
Smyth played out 4 out of his 5 years, and a trade request is significantly different than a trade demand. He will still go back to LA if a move cannot be accommodated.
We have no idea who has leverage. We have yet to get the whole story. It might have been Lombardi asking for the move out of cap pressure. It's not like the Oilers are desperate for Smyth a year early either. Nor do we really know how motivated Smyth is.
ReplyDeleteSo a wife has demanded a player come TO edmonton?
ReplyDeleteThat explains the cane toads on the front lawn.
I expect a statement from the Oilers lowering expectations shortly.If they are considering this they shouldn't be in any hurry-they can pick up Smyth later in the summer if that's the plan..perhaps LA may want to get on with things and lower the asking price.
Smyth probably realizes he has a few quality years left (3-4 - he is after all, 35), and with time running out, why not sooner than later?
ReplyDeleteThis is where his roots are. His family lives in Red Deer, his wife is from Western Canada. One of the reasons he signed in Colorado was so that his dad could watch 8 games in Alberta (he used to come to all 41 games).
Smyth is an ultimate Albertan, an ultimate Oiler. No amount of fancy yachts, real life barbie bimbos, or sunshine can keep him in Southern California for the long-run.
In short, he is the anti-thesis of Joffrey Zoolander.
spOILer: Matty was hardly reporting from an insider perspective. He picked up the phone and called Ryan Smyth, who denied it himself. But honestly, that's what these guys are trained to do, isn't it? Deny, deny, deny.
ReplyDeleteMcKenzie is nigh infallible (in the long history of him breaking stories, has he ever once been wrong?) and Lombardi sent up some smoke through the LA reporter... I mean, this is clearly true, right?
McKenzie doesn't just make stuff up.
ReplyDeleteMore fuel for the fire.
ReplyDeleteFrom the article: It's believed the Kings would take a mid-range draft pick for Smyth, who played his 1,000th career game early last season.
Hmmmm.
maybe this is why the Penner deal was so horrible...L.A. keeps 94 for the playoffs?....but i doubt it.
ReplyDelete14-10-4
ReplyDelete83-89-94
Not a bad top 6.
Or, if Hall plays C:
83-4-94
23-10-91
Should be at least break even as far as scoring chances are concerned.
Hmm... McKenzie didn't do his own writeups for his rankings list this year. Grant McCagg is listed as a TSN Scout. I don't usually read McKeens, does he know what he's talking about?
ReplyDeletea mid-range pick?
ReplyDeleteis that a 3rd or 4th I guess?
horcoff - smyth - hemsky
ReplyDeletewow.
The story as I see it is this:
ReplyDeleteLombardi approaches Smyth near the deadline last year to get some information about Oiler roster players.
Smyth, seeing there's an opportunity to come back to Edmonton mentions that he wouldn't be opposed to being involved in a trade.
The Kings fizzle in the playoffs and it's sure that they likely won't resign Smyth ... Lombardi makes no secret of loving cap room (as he should). Smyth reiterates a desire to be traded to Edmonton, since chances are he'll be traded sometime this season anyway.
Lombardi obliges and contacts the Oilers to work something out. BUT, Tambo being Tambo needs time to think and weigh out the options. Years pass ... Lombardi is losing his mind waiting for a phone call. Meanwhile, free agent day fast approaches and if Lombardi is going to have the ability to chase the free agents he wants, Smyth HAS to be off the books.
Hence, the story is "leaked" to Bob MacKenzie. What Oiler fan would be opposed to Smyth returning (save Dan Tencer)?
Now that the series of tubes that make up the interweb are full of Ryan Smyth to Edmonton stories, including trade scenarios and line combinations.
So, there's additional pressure for Tambo to make something happen with Smyth as Tambo may trade the first overall pick OR next year's first pick overall OR something else completely ridiculous like banish an NHL defenseman to the AHL when you don't have enough NHL defenseman on your NHL team, or you don't try to trade him until after he has an injury plagued season.
Lombardi knows who he's dealing with. Some people need a suggestion to get something done. Others need to be beaten over the head to get something done.
Which is Tambo?
Dennis said... a mid-range pick? is that a 3rd or 4th I guess?
ReplyDeleteI hope you're right. But I'm guessing it's the 19th, if the rumour is even correct. Or why would the talks have stalled? Over Calgary's 74th? That doesn't sound like much of a hindrance.
Parized: See Prendergrast, Kevin.
i bet Tambo is trying to get LA to take back some bad salary like Foster or Brule along with Calgary's third. Or they are haggling over a third versus a fourth.
ReplyDeleteTambo let deals almost die between getting a second or a third. Remember Grebeshkov?
Jeez, can we get Stoll back then too?
ReplyDeleteI would love to see Smyth back. Naturally, the wheels fell off when they dealt Pronger for (poor) futures instead of trying to extend the core, but when Smyth left then things went really crazy.
ReplyDeleteGetting Smyth back won't fix the fact that Lowe disassembled that team haphazardly. It won't change the fact that it took three years to recognize the rebuild. And it certainly won't change all the crazy moves made in the interim. But Smyth is always worth the price of admission and he'd make the team better than his price tag even at his age. That's better than the Oilers have managed in the last five years.
This really is one of the few things that the Oilers management can do to buy my forgiveness.
ReplyDeleteChris said...
ReplyDeleteThis really is one of the few things that the Oilers management can do to buy my forgiveness.
Forgiveness? Unless they're loading Kevin Lowe into a giant cannon pointed at the sun, I won't be forgiving anybody. Smyth's return would make me slightly less angry though. I think.
Smyth doesn't half look like Val Kilmer in that pic.
ReplyDeleteSpoiler: Nope, but mentorship doesn't hurt.
ReplyDelete$6.25 cap hit should allow some other decent mentorship pick ups no? Maybe even enough to outscorescore 45 points.
Mind you this IS Edmonton...where marketing is a far bigger accomplishment than winning.
riversq said:
ReplyDelete"Forgiveness? Unless they're loading Kevin Lowe into a giant cannon pointed at the sun, I won't be forgiving anybody. Smyth's return would make me slightly less angry though. I think."
Hilarious. I wish I'd said that.
I'll take a Ryan Smyth denial straight to Matheson over a bunch of sources.
ReplyDeleteEither that or Smytty has taken too many hits to the head.
Or he's too much of a "team first" guy to cop to it publicly.
Tyler
ReplyDeleteYeah, you're consistent in your opinion that players should have the right to change employers if they're unhappy. I don't fully agree, there is a different relationship between an employee and his customers in the NHL than in other industries. Still, I was closer to your stance on Prongergate and Heatleygate than the vast majority of Oiler fans.
Hell, the only reason Pronger was an Oiler in the first place was because he demanded a trade to a Canadian team when the Blues started to rebuild. The Oilers were the only ones with cap space, Pleau did as well as he could given the circumstance, but it was still going to be a lopsided deal for the Oil.
Somehow, in Oilerland, the behavior that brought Pronger here wasn't even a minor sin. This same behavior lead to his departure, at which point it became a mortal sin. Then we linked him to several broken commandments, rightly or wrongly.
But I digress.
In this case it appears Lombardi obliged Smyth's request. In fact, as you point out, as well as being the quoted source he is very likely also the unnamed source in Helene Elliot's article. Lombardi gives the story credibility.
They picked a good national source to leak it to as well. Bob Mackenzie is a credible writer.
I think Smyth did the right thing in denying the story as well. He should stay out of it personally, for the sake of Kings fans.
If Lowe and Tambellini want him back, a deal will get done shortly. What's the difference between a 3rd and 4th rounder? About 1/20th of an actual NHL player? That's not a genuine stumbling block. Maybe they're trying to dump a bad contract on Lombardi as well ... that would be a bit hopeful, but you have to try.
On the other hand, if Lowe and Tambellini don't want him back ... he's got Lombardi and Meehan to turn the screws on the Oilers, using public opinion. I mean if it comes down to a game of strategy, you'd want your money riding on the latter duo, no?
Either way it's all good.
You're actually debating whether Matheson has a trade rumour nailed correctly?
ReplyDeleteThat's the funniest thing I've read on these comment boards in quite a while.
dot dot dot
Vic's last point also reminds me how Edmontonites howled when Gretzky was sold "like a piece of meat" to LA, while conveniently overlooking how he came to Edmonton in the first place when Nelson Skalbania sold him like a piece of meat/threw him in as stakes in a poker/backgammon game with the Blue-Eyed Crook.
ReplyDeleteSome of you, a lot of you actually don't understand the dynamics of show business. There are certain areas of society(show biz being one of them) where people sign away years of their lives to contract themselves with big corporations.
ReplyDeleteThey often end up making a fortune, while everyday slobs talk about their multi million dollar salaries with the comprehension of special needs calculus class.
Yeah, these people are so exploited. I wonder what 6'6" Chris Pronger would be doing, if he couldn't skate? Probably working the door(in a supervisory capacity) at some Toronto nightclub.
I was initially inclined to believe that Meehan was the source of the leak to put pressure on Lombardi, but Matty and Helene Elliot's subsequent pieces strongly suggest that it was the Kings who leaked the news to put pressure on the Oilers.
ReplyDeleteIf, as Elliot suggests, there have already been talks about sending him back to Edmonton, then I suspect the Oilers have been looking for LA to take some salary back, or seeking an additional asset as a reward for giving the Kings $6.25M in cap space.
Lombardi probably wants the cap space before July 1st so he can make a run at Richards and Gagne when free agency opens and hoped the leaking the story would put enough public pressure on Tambellini for him to agree to take Smyth for just a mid-round pick.
The stumbling block is the LA wants Calagary's 3rd at minimum and Lowe has instructed v3.0 and MBS to take Keegan with that pick if he's still on the board.
ReplyDeleteTaking Keegan at 62 would be a stretch given his ranking, but 74th would wash better. (its doubtful that Keegan is there at 92, the Oiler's 4th)
Lowe is having to choose between his son and the Oiler's prodigal son.
Kinda like a Greek tragedy with only minimal incest.
if it's possible the Oil need to make this happen. Smyth is the perfect transition player. He is an Oiler, period. We need actual NHL players, he will re-sign for much less to finish his career here. And he allows us to wait on some of our prospects. Many on this blog talked about us rushing people, well this allows us to wait on Hartikanen and Hamilton. Let then grow up in the AHL and win down there. Then you can graduate people when they are truly ready.
ReplyDeleteAdd Smyth, add a vet two way centre, Belanger would be a nice fit. 33, 40 pts per year, solid faceoff man and kills penalties. He would be a nice fit between the Swedes and/or Konopka, who is physical, great at faceoffs and can kill penalties while being a physical presence and the "modern tough guy" this team lacks on the 4th line.
You can then keep Lander and CVV in the minors for another year or two. Let them dominate in the minors and develop the right way, and in 2 or 3 years you can have Lander, CVV, Hamilton, Hartikanen and Pitik and Davidson become important bottom 6 players for us. Add the Nuge at some point (but only when he is ready) and we are a true contender in 3 years. In the meantime the NHL team adds 3 vets up front who can hep us compete right now and maybe most importantly we get some goodwill from the NHL players in regards to being a good organization (which is not the case right now).
Cactus: "LA Kings Cap Room: $16M... Doughty signing: -$6M in cap room... That leaves $10M to sign 4 forwards and a seventh defenceman... If they want Richards and he gets a big deal ($7M per) they'll almost have to move someone else to gain the room to round out their roster. If they're not going for Richards, they can afford to wait out Smyth."
ReplyDeleteYou're allowed to exceed the cap by 10% in the off-season. Which means, (assuming a $6M cap hit for Doughty), they have $16.4M to spend on free agents in the off-season.
They can afford to chase Richards. If they get him, then they're in a salary situation and can dump Smyth to Edmonton for a middling pick (or buy him out, or whatever). If they DON'T get Richards, they can keep Smyth. If you're the Kings, why make this deal until you have Richards in the bank? Otherwise you lose Smyth and have little to show for it.
Woodguy: your speculation aside, I believe Lowe when he says he's of two minds about his son playing here. I think he remembers the pressure on Lupul so reaching on Keegan could be bad for his son.
ReplyDeleteOn the point of why Smyth hasn't been acquired yet, I see two plausible reasons:
1) Tambellini & co. are truly committed to a youth rebuild where the focus is on giving young kids their shot and then surrounding them with vets only when they've been able to succeed on their own. As we've discussed previously, this isn't a very good idea but it may well be the strategy of management. If it is, Ryan Smyth doesn't really fit and I wouldn't expect a trade unless Lombardi let's us fleece him (and he probably already thinks he was ripped off in the Penner deal).
2) The Oilers are stalling as a negotiating tactic. LA may want the 3rd rounder, but as I indicated in an earlier post, if they want to go hunting for a big acquisition in the realm of $6.5-7M+, they need to move at least someone to generate the cap space. As Smyth has both a NMC and a preference for Edmonton, the Oilers may feel they can wait for LA to either take a little salary back or lower their demands somewhat.
We should know in the next week which explanation fits best.
WheatNOil: the reason you move now is because there's flexibility currently. If the Kings wait and sign Richards for say, $7.5M per, then the Oilers can be ridiculous with their trade demands given Smyth's NMC. Lombardi may be able to acquire a 3rd or a 4th right now - after signing Richards or Gagne, he'll have to make due with a 7th and Colin Fraser's salary.`
ReplyDeleteWith the LA times article it seems this weekend will be a busy time to be an Oiler fan. Question is can, Tambo aka "Mr.Dithers" made decisions fast enough to make things happen. In one way I miss Kevin Lowe as GM, sure he made some silly moves but at least he made a decision and was decisive.
ReplyDeleteAnyways, my point being, if we can get Smyth or when we get Smyth for a draft pick and sign a centre who wins a faceoff at free agency and perhaps bring back Souray (an actual NHL defenseman) how much will this help the Oilers in the standings next year?? Can they win enough games to finish out of the cellar? Maybe not be a lottery team?
Wow, that's alot to think about if I was in Oilers management. If so, maybe 2012 pick is in play and maybe we can get RHN and Larsson...hmmm.... NAH.... this type of thinking needs a decisive decision in a short period of time. Wishful thinking on my part. Right "Mr.Dithers" ;-)
re Keegan Lowe: Fine. Draft the little sprog.
ReplyDeleteBut don't expect any mercy off the fanbase if he stagnates as a player.
He would be a nice fit between the Swedes and/or Konopka, who is physical, great at faceoffs and can kill penalties while being a physical presence and the "modern tough guy" this team lacks on the 4th line
ReplyDeleteSome numbers on Konopka (from a previous thread):
NYI had a decent PK last year (something like 12th in the league)
NYI 4v5 Forwards 40gp+, 1min/60+ 4v5:
GAON/60
Grabner 3.61
Bailey 4.78
Comeau 4.90
Nielsen 5.44
Konopka 10.60
One of these things is not like the other.....
If you look at the game sheet from the last 20 games he didn't PK, they took him off the PK at some point.
5v5
CorQC 8/10
CorQT 10/10
RelCor 10/10 (-23.5, 2nd worst on team was Matt Martin -18.1, 3rd Jesse Joensuu -7.6)
He may have been the worst player in the NHL to take a regular shift.
If Zorg could take a draw he'd be a huge upgrade on Konopka.
Wouldn't it be just like the Oilers to say "We need a face off man!!", the go get the worst hockey player possible?
Gregor was pushing Konopka at $1MM/yr for 3 years.
Lordy.
Konopka is 30 and hasn't played 3 full seasons in the NHL.
Career AHLer and not a very good one.
WG: I've been waiting for someone to trot out Kenopka's atrocious numbers for a while now. Despite his street cred he's no better than a JFJ who plays centre and can win some faceoffs. I guess he's probably a better fighter too.
ReplyDeleteI really wonder if Detroit has any interest in Tom Gilbert? The Oilers apparently have dangled him recently, and Detroit is looking for someone to replace Rafalski. He seems like exactly the type of player they'd pick up. He's a skill player with utility beyond appearances, he's put in his developmental time, and he should be hitting his prime. Coincidentally he's also the type of player the Oilers love to send away.
ReplyDeleteIf such a move were to occur I'd be inclined to pick up Tommy in a few fantasy leagues this coming season.
konopka is clearly not erfect, but he knows his role, he fights willingly and defends his teammates. Something we have lacked. Zorg was a solid player, but slow and didn't initiate enough fights for managements taste. Kojopka's a 4th line guy who will play 7-10 minutes. He won't break us, but he does add while obviously having warts. Who is better, Konopka or Macintyre, cause that is who's spot he would take.
ReplyDeleteI have never seen Konopka play, so I have no idea what kind of a player he really is. But I'd guess that at least part of the reason that RelCorsi is so terrible is because of how he's been used: his offensive zone-start is only 30% and half of his face-offs were taken in the defensive zone (only 20% in the offensive). Pretty much the same the year before in TB (RelCorsi -7.2, OffZone% 29%, QualComp 13/14, QualTeam 14/14).
ReplyDeleteAnother face-off specialist, Manny Malhotra, had a 25% offensive zone start and RelCorsi of -19 (although faced much better competition). Not that I'm suggesting Konopka is half the player that Malhotra is, I just think that his utility as a faceoff man meant that he was thrown in to take defensive faceoffs whenever possible.
Maverick, as much as I agree with your points about Tambellini, I'd take Mr. Dithers any day over Lowe's (crazy phase) Mr. Decisive turn over 4 x 1st round picks for Vanek on 7 years at 7 million.
ReplyDeleteThat wasn't dodging a bullet, or even a grenade as some people suggest, that was having a B52 miss with a full payload of concussion bombs.
Its hilarious how much of a hurry some people are to bring Smyth into the fold.
ReplyDelete~"Just get 'er done, Mr Dithers!"~
Why shouldn't Tambo let LA stew right up until midnight on June 30th? He is in the drivers seat here and has no need to hurry the process along. The price will only go down.
Cam: outstanding Lowe slam. That was some quality work.
ReplyDeleteFor the guy who said that moving for 94 and selling the 2012 pick would mean a lot of work in a short amount of time, you're damn right.
It would be a new plan, a plan to try and start to be less than awful and to say that you've built up enough top level picks and prospects to the point where you're ready to try and compete.
I would welcome that.
While WG's prodigal son narrative was hilarious, I'm pretty sure it's a done deal LA if it's the Calgary pick for Smyth.
ReplyDeleteMy guess is Tambo is trying to peddle Foster or Brule back the other way on top of it, and that's the stumbling block.
Monday leak before a Friday/Saturday draft. Source is someone in LA mgmt. LA wants picks. We'll have resolution soon enough.
ReplyDeleteUntil then, I'm going to hide in a pub with a lion, scarecrow, and tin man drinking pitchers by the armful and muttering "there's no place like home" like a Turret's patient who hasn't slept in weeks. When this is all over I'm going to wake up and it's going to be Monday, June 19th of 2006 and this whole shitshow nightmare of Tambellini booming at us while Lowe hides behind the curtain will never have happened.
Tambellini presser on Oilers website. Talking draft right now, says he would be open to any trade if it was the right deal. Wonder if he'll say anything fun today.
ReplyDeleteHemsky will enter camp in best health of recent history, healthy shoulders, lots of times with Simon Bennett, etc. Not worried about extension.
ReplyDeleteRe: adding players:
ReplyDelete"We'll get to a spot where.. and this is not related to Ryan.. people will want to play with our great young players."
Re: Smyth rumours:
"He's a good person, that's Ryan's business, that's Dean Lombardi's business, and I respect that."
"I don't see that as a likely scenario. There's been a little discussion prior to the draft... Trade discussion."
Re draft:
ReplyDelete"We have a pretty good idea of where we want to go."
Wants "someone that is special. Someone that brings something special that we don't have. Maybe someone who won't jump in right now but someone who will, in a few years, be elite."
"I don't see that as a likely scenario. There's been a little discussion prior to the draft... Trade discussion."
ReplyDeleteWhat is the that referring to in this sentence? Smyth returning?
Re: #1 OV playing on roster:
ReplyDelete"This year, if players can play, great, if he doesn't, I'm not worried about that."
(At any point, if the recap monologue gets tiresome for someone just say so.)
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletegogliano: As I heard it, yes that was about Smyth. It can be a bit hard to hear the questions being asked but Smyth was discussed before and after that quote.
ReplyDeleteRe: #19OV
ReplyDeleteThere are teams with multiple picks in the late 1st and early 2nd round who want that pick. We might also look at using it to move up for the right guy.
(Paraphrase)
And with that, it's over. Wrapped up by reiterating that this is the time to acquire young talent and that he looks forward to having to worry about signing everyone or trading assets for immediate help down the road.
ReplyDeleteSurprisingly few follow-up questions about Smyth. I suppose your pre-draft presser is supposed to be about softballs but that was disappointing.
Showerhead:
ReplyDeleteDoes Edmonton media ever not disappoint?
PDO: Like Charlie Brown to the football, I guess. I really thought something as big as a potential Smyth homecoming would be worth a little more follow up.
ReplyDeleteIf I could rewind just a little bit, I would add (or Charlie Sheen to the 8-ball) to the 1st sentence of that post. It's been done to death but I like how the two Charlies go together on this one.
ReplyDeleteUnder tampering rules, he's not really allowed to comment of Smyth is he?
ReplyDelete*on
ReplyDeleteDBO,
ReplyDeleteIf its a choice between SMac and Konopka then Konopka wins, but I'd prefer neither.
I posted this at ON in response to the zone start thing (and PKSV%):
Smytty777,
Good points, both of those are important and certainly impact those numbers.
PKSV%
Graber .915
Bailey .908
Nielsen .898
Bomeau .892
Konopka .819
Certainly the PKSV% contributed to his massive GAON/60, but not nearly enough to account for it being double as far as quick math tells me.
Zonestarts
Konopka had one of the toughest zone starts in the league and that will certainly hurt his RelCor, but again its not the whole story.
He also had a +/-/60 of -1.31, one of the worst in the league.
Also remember he is playing against he worst players on the other team.
Maholtra (who obviously is 10x the player Konopka is) had the single toughest zone start in the league (25%), but still managed a +0.61/60 against the toughest competitors VAN faced.
Maholtra has the 2nd worst RelCor on VAN with -19.0 (Glass had -29.5)
Konopka's dismal numbers while playing 4th line minutes states clearly that he is an AHLer at best.
TBY gave him a spin for a year and let him go.
NYI gave him a spin for a year and let him go.
EDM shouldn't go near him.
LOL At Konopka. Idk why he's even being discussed. One of the worst NHL players to grace the ice.
ReplyDeleteHe's just a tool, and look how our deterrent worked last year : Like shit.
The hanging on to goons is getting ridiculous. Team Toughness.
Thanks Showerhead.
ReplyDeleteRe: #19OV
There are teams with multiple picks in the late 1st and early 2nd round who want that pick.
Read: Burke has called.
I'm not really suggesting that Konopka is good, but better than the numbers suggest.
ReplyDeleteEven on the PK, he took more defensive zone faceoffs than any other centre which is remarkable becuase he played about half the minutes. He essentially took two Dzone faceoffs for every minute of PK time, which is double the frequency of Nielsen and Bailey.
I guess I'm just having trouble reconciling the fact that he was leaned on so heavily for defensive zone faceoffs and his QualComp. Wouldn't the opposing team usually send out their scoring line when they had a faceoff in offensive zone?
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ReplyDeleteTeam toughness, with Tom Gilbert?
ReplyDeleteTG: Maybe their coach didn't have a clue.
ReplyDeleteIf you pick up Konopka I hope it is as a 5c. If he replaces all of Smack/jfj/strudwick and is seen as the tweener he is it wouldn't be a terrible depth move.
ReplyDeleteI will give the puppet the benefit of a doubt but if he's about to waste another goddamn year and another year of service time for the kids then you wonder just how much young talent is enough before this fucking team actually tries to win?
ReplyDelete94 seems to be out there for not a lot in return and we have the space to take him and we have a need for real players.
Team toughness, with Tom Gilbert?
ReplyDeleteA good ol' Edmonton boy like Johnny Boychuk eats pieces of shit like Tom Gilbert for breakfast. That's right. He eats pieces of shit for breakfast.
Yes team toughness with Tom Gilbert.
ReplyDeleteIf you can do team tougness with Gionta, Gomez, Cammalleri and Plekanec you can do it with anyone.
I've been following up with the Smyth story in the LA media and it seems that much of the impetus for a trade is coming from the problems they're having signing Doughty. It seems he's looking for well in excess of the $4.35M they're paying to Jack Johnson and that's caught the Kings off-guard. If they can't get a deal done by July 1 and they're able to bring in someone like Richards, they're more vulnerable to an offer sheet. Just more confirmation that the Oilers are better off being patient here - they may be able to get Smyth for some magic beans.
ReplyDeleteAnd on the subject of offer sheets, if they CAN'T get something done with Doughty, I'd seriously consider one. Anything less than $6.2M per costs a 1st, 2nd and a 3rd, which would be worth it to land a true #1 defenceman.
Oh, so by "toughness" you mean ability to get rag dolled and still make it back to the bench.
ReplyDeleteAnd on the subject of offer sheets, if they CAN'T get something done with Doughty, I'd seriously consider one. Anything less than $6.2M per costs a 1st, 2nd and a 3rd, which would be worth it to land a true #1 defenceman.
ReplyDeleteThey are going to match anything less than $7, are they not?
Ducey: I would think so, but I also would have thought that they would've been able to get something done by now. Either Doughty's looking for something astronomical (say, $7.5M+) or the Kings are trying to lowball him into the $5M range. If it's the latter, this whole situation is susceptible to an offer sheet.
ReplyDeleteJesus that's a pricey 2nd contract for Doughty, even for a 1D. Weber got something like $4.5, Burns 3.5, Seabrook 3.5... I can't think of a similar comp. He wants Stamkos money if he's reaching for $7M.
ReplyDeleteCactus,
ReplyDeleteIt sounds like there's a standing offer to the Oilers, Smyth for a 3rd.
It sounds like the sticking point is not negotiation, but that the Oilers don't want him.
Either they must feel Smyth would eff up The Sucky Plan, or they don't want to give up any roster spots.
It sounds like there's a standing offer to the Oilers, Smyth for a 3rd.
ReplyDeleteIs this an inference on your part?
It sounds like the sticking point is not negotiation, but that the Oilers don't want him.
You've got to be fucking kidding me.
It's amazing how some people can blow anything into an anti-management diatribe. I think I'll wait for more information before I start believing that Dean Lombardi is willing to lose a 20-goal LW for nothing more than a 3rd round draft pick.
ReplyDeleteMaybe we can send JFJ and the 31st to Pittsburgh for Crosby, too.
Spoiler: your suggestion of Smyth for a 3rd makes sense, but is this speculation? Or is this a source?
ReplyDeleteI must disagree with your conclusion from this, however (that the Oilers don't want him). It's possible that they have a plan that doesn't include Smyth (either a total youth commitment or a desire to go get younger veterans), but it's just as likely that this is a negotiating tactic. Smyth's "objective value" may be a third round pick, but Tambellini may have realized that the Kings aren't in the best position to determine price right now. If that's the case, why make the deal for a 3rd right now when by Saturday it may be a 4th? We simply don't know enough and the Oilers can't say anything lest they be guilty of tampering.
As for Doughty, I think he wants to be paid as one of the top 5-10 d-men in the game... which is what he is.
@Spoiler,
ReplyDeleteIf the Kings have a need to trade Smyth, that need will be there right until July 1st. Smyth has a NMC, so he would have to agree to go anywhere else. If you wait a couple days and the Kings get anxious, could you make the 3rd round pick a 4th? A 5th? How about a 3rd round pick in next year's draft?
This is one of the few times I agree with Tambo waiting... the longer you wait, the tighter the screws get on the Kings. Of course, if the Kings make a different trade to free up cap space or July 1st comes around and Richards & Gagne get snapped up by someone else... you've waited too long!
Ducey: Or out-hitting Boston in it's 7 games series.
ReplyDeleteShowerhead:
ReplyDeleteI believe the LA Times article said a mid-range pick. That seems to be the view of various rumours too.
If that's the case, I can't really see negotiations stalling out over the 74th overall. Really, all this posturing is over trying to get him for a 5th instead, or delaying the pick to next year? If that was the case, I'd think we would be getting different responses from Tambo than what seems to be complete disinterest.
This is all supposition on my part, but I do find it easy to believe that Tambo refuses to stray from The Sucky Plan.
WheatNOil
ReplyDeleteSo far the most specific info we have, despite Matty's article, is that the Smyth camp has requested a trade for 'family reasons', from Helene Elliott, LA beat writer.
In other words, there's no pressure on Lombardi to make a trade other than to make Smyth happy.
I'm hoping too that Lombardi needs the cap space and there's pressure there, but so far we don't know that. Unless you have more info? And wouldn't the CGY 3rd really be enough for Tambo if he really does want Smyth? Isn't it in the range of the Gagne trade?
Spoiler: there's three great reasons why Tambellini is showing disinterest:
ReplyDelete1) Public interest could be taken as collusion with the player and thus, tampering. That's bad.
2) Even if it wasn't tampering, if he muses about a deal and it falls through, he'll take even more heat from the fans. That's bad.
3) The second he shows serious interest in a 20G scorer like Smyth, Dean Lombardi draws a line in the sand and insists on a higher price. That's bad.
Stu MacGregor has said that this draft is about 90-100 players deep. Thus, a 3rd rounder still has real value according to our scouts. Why simply give into that price if you feel you can wait out LA?
It's entirely possible that Smyth doesn't fit with "the plan" and that the plan is limited veteran help. But until we have more information, that's entirely conjecture.
Cactus...
ReplyDelete1. I would imagine there's ways of acknowledging existing negotiations without it being considering tampering. Especially if the other party is equally motivated... why would they complain? He doesn't even have to speak of Smyth, he can just acknowledge talks with LA in the hopes of getting a deal done soon. Allow the media to draw the context.
2. The deal sounds like its a lock if the Oilers want it so don't see how this is a factor... unless the Oil don't really want it.
3. No way Lombardi takes a chance on souring the deal by re-upping the price with his sole option. Tambo would just walk away at that point and wait for Lombardi to call back, sober.
Again agreed, we are speculating.
A small note of caution on Doughty.
ReplyDeleteIf he didn't bother to get in good enough shape to lose that second chin with the prospect of a $7+ million per year deal in the balance, there's no telling what he'll be capable of once he gets that money secured.
Magisterrex said... we can send JFJ and the 31st to Pittsburgh for Crosby
ReplyDeleteAwesome! If Tambellini doesn't do this, he is an idiot and he and that bum Katz should be run out of town.
Cactus
ReplyDeleteYou are absolutely right. A 3rd round draft pick has some value. We can offer them anyone one or all of: Jones,Brule, Fraser or Foster for the rights to Smytty
I was discussing it with a friend UFA options in the summer. If Tanguay wanted 6M a year for 2 years, and would sign it with the Oilers, would you agree to it?
ReplyDeleteOr would you be completely opposed to it? Should the Oilers be going after such players by short-term overpayments.
Thoughts appreciated.
So far the most specific info we have, despite Matty's article, is that the Smyth camp has requested a trade for 'family reasons', from Helene Elliott, LA beat writer.
ReplyDeleteThe denial was from the horses mouth - so thats a pretty big mozza ball standing in the way of a Smyth trade demand. We also have the fact that Lombardi talked to Smyth about a trade (I think thats in Bob Mac's original story)
It could be that Lombardi had a trade for Smyth to go to another team. It probably involved another high end player coming back. He approaches Smyth re NMC, who says "I am not going anywhere, but I would consider EDM for family reasons".
Word then gets down to the coffee boy who then becomes a source.
In this case all the facts we know are true:
1)Lombardi talked to Smyth about a trade (just not to EDM)
2)Smyth said he would go to EDM
3)Smyth did not demand a trade to EDM, is happy in LA, but wouldn't mind winding up in EDM someday
Lombardi then probably then spoke to Tambo but is not interested in weakening his team so the offer of a third (or whatever)is not appealling and talks go nowhere.
I just had a vision of Katz throwing money in a toilet bowl and squeeling with glee every time Tambellini flushes it on him.
ReplyDeleteSo, if (hopefully, "when") Smyth comes to town, how long before Horcoff hands over the "C"?
ReplyDeleteBased on the PC, doesn't seem like Tambellini wants Smyth.
ReplyDeleteI suspect another [obvious] year of intentional tanking. Fans keep coming in, so no real incentive to change course that quickly.
Unfortunate.
Correct me if I'm wrong. With bonuses signing a 2nd overall pick to their 3 year entry level contract is less then signing a 1st over all pick.
ReplyDeleteIf Colorado wants to pick first (and RNH isn't their guy) it would be a good idea to move down, pick up a smaller asset (probably not much) then select RNH 2nd and save some cap space as well.
Being the first on the dance floor doesn't make sense if a deal like that would work.
'Well, what are you looking for?' other managers
ReplyDelete'That's for you to tell me' Tambo, presser today.
'Fock' me
PJO, it all depends on what you want. If you're shoring up the lines and giving your young players more actual NHL players to help shelter them then yes.
ReplyDeleteIf you're set on tanking again, then no. For all Toonces spouts off about wanting to be better next season, he did the exact same thing last year...and let's face it he isn't likely to just come right out and admit it if he wants to tank.
With the absolute lack of accountability the free pass of the 'rebuild' tag gives him, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the fail for nail isn't in full swing a little after Christmas.
But we're going to compete next year:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.edmontonsun.com/2011/06/21/oilers-last-chance-at-first
Right?
Ducey, that mozza ball was directly refuted by Helene Elliott later that night. Smyth said what he had to, is the guess of some comments above, mine too.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteI just had a vision of Katz throwing money in a toilet bowl and squeeling with glee every time Tambellini flushes it on him.
Does the toilet paper roll have alternating images of Souray and Khabby?
Ducey...
ReplyDeleteDunno, maybe you didn't see this:
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-kings-20110621,0,7754803.story
So the headline in Smyth's "hometown" this morning, after his refutation was:
Kings' Ryan Smyth wants to be traded back to Edmonton
Can't see the LA Times throwing that out there unless they were reasonably sure it was true.
Ryan Kennedy at THN has said he's heard 2 sources say the Panthers and Oilers are talking about a pick swap (1 for 3). I don't like that one bit.
ReplyDeleteWonder if it involves Tallon taking Souray and/or Khabby back to help make the cap floor. Would have to be both plus another asset to make me want to do that.
Press conference summarized here
ReplyDeleteFrom it, I see that I need to make a correction. Earlier today while monologuing, I attributed the following Tambellini as regarding Ryan Smyth: "I don't see that as a likely scenario. There's been a little discussion prior to the draft... Trade discussion."
In fact, it was about Sheldon Souray. It was hard to hear the questions being asked and as Smyth was the topic right before that statement, I (wrongly) guessed.
*Takes self behind woodshed*
That post by "Murat" was me. Whoops.
ReplyDeleteLink to Ryan Kennedy's trade talk I mentioned above...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/40945-Sources-Edmonton-Oilers-involved-in-talks-to-trade-No-1-overall-pick.html
//'Well, what are you looking for?' other managers
ReplyDelete'That's for you to tell me' Tambo, presser today.
'Fock' me//
Tambellini is right. You don't bargain against yourself. You don't say anything until you get an offer. That first offer tells you whether the other guy is serious or is just dicking around.
I wonder how much Hartikanen could learn from playing on the same team as Ryan Smyth
ReplyDelete@godot
ReplyDeletei guess but he was answering the types of players we need. i don't think he knows the answers. i think (hope) his staff does.
Ian: every kid and pick's gonna work out and we don't need any vets.
ReplyDeleteUnless we're talking about the Christly Ryan Whitney and the soaked Khabby:)