The night he was injured, Edmonton Oiler fans knew. They knew they way you know something bad is about to happen in any move when CCR's "Bad Moon Rising" starts the opening riff.
One of the main areas of worry with this now extremely young club is the quality and depth of the defense. Upon this shifting soil we have Whitney at the top; fine in most cases, he's a quality talent. The worry is injury, and his resume is long and increasing. My Left Foot in 2008, Loose Ankles this past season.
Ryan Whitney is captain material. When he talks about the team, it's credible (he suggested RNH might be a good pick at #1 overall) and positive. He's not a minion, he's a leader. If he can stay healthy, this guy can help the Edmonton Oilers enormously.
Ryan Whitney 10-11
- 5x5 points per 60: 1.58 (1st among Oil D, 2nd in NHL)
- 5x4 points per 60: 2.91 (3rd among Oil D)
- Qual Comp: 3rd toughest among D
- Qual Team: worst available among D
- Corsi Rel: .6 (6th best among D)
- Zone Start: 53.4% (3rd easiest among D)
- Zone Finish: 50.6% (4th best among D)
- Shots on goal/percentage: 43 shots/2 goals 4.7% (4th best)
- Boxcars: 35gp, 2-25-27
- Plus Minus: +13 on a team that was -52
- What do these numbers tell us? He's a quality NHL defenseman on a bad, bad team. Whitney's 5x5/60 number is so good we shouldn't expect another one like it, but he's clearly a talented puck mover. He delivered quality and appears to have had enormous puck luck based on CorsiRel but credit where due the results are insane based on the mayhem going on all about him. Even taking air of of the tires there was some good hockey in these numbers.
- How could these numbers be better? He could have been healthy for an entire season. That's about it, he had a fine, fine season on a sinking ship. I also think we need to temper the idea that since he played in good fortune we can't expect quality. Ryan Whitney is the one defenseman--if healthy--we can expect to flourish in the role he's expected to fill. It's a major item on a team with more holes than answers.
- The ship was fine until he was injured. Quite right. By my count, they won 12 of his 35 games and then won 13 of their final 47. It wasn't brilliant at any point.
- You'd build the blue around him? Yes. If he's healthy, Whitney is an outstanding candidate for future captain.
- How big a worry is the foot/ankle? I'm not sure. Whitney's feet seem to be an issue but I haven't seen any evidence that the recent injury ties it into some kind of genetic deficiency. I hesitate to call anything medical a one-off, but there is some evidence it was unique.
- It's dangerous to count on another season like this one. Certainly. Jonathan Willis did a very nice job pointing out that we shouldn't expect this kind of performance every year. Having said that, Whitney isn't in a situation where he can do damage to the cap (read: he's already got a contract) so that kind of concern isn't in the equation.
- Who will he partner with? Ideally Whitney would be part of a veteran top pairing, perhaps a shutdown type defender like Jason Smith in 2000. However, with the team in full rebuild mode it's more likely Whitney will have a younger hire like Jeff Petry on his right.
- When will he be captain? Horcoff is signed through 2015 summer.
- How important is he to the team? Just short of oxygen. The Edmonton Oilers roster depth on the blueline is razor thin. When Whitney went down in 2010-11 the organization had no counter save for showing up and bleeding. Pretty freaking important player.
Prediction for 2010-11: 70gp, 8-26-34 (.486)
Actual 2010: 35gp, 2-25-27 (.771)
A fine veteran defenseman

Ryan Whitney has been a solid rock for the Oilers when playing. Everything you would hope for out of a #1 Dman. Time to build around him, immediately.
ReplyDeleteHis shot differential and his PDO tells a different story than his point totals.
ReplyDeleteThey are screaming that there will be a significant drop in production/success with Whitney on the ice. This team needs a better defenseman than Whitney if and when the goal is to go deep in the playoffs. He is not a #1 defenseman and I think it is important to not expect that kind of production and role out of him
He's still the best we got. I think a Whitney-Hejda or Whitney-Wisniewski pairing would help out greatly next season. On a good team Whitney would be a #2 or #3 guy.
ReplyDeleteWisniewski would be a nice option. Undersized but tough as nails. As some offensive/PP ability as well.
ReplyDeleteNote on Wisniewski: Has trouble when pressured defensively. Has one of the shortest reach in the NHL due to pee-wee sized stick.
ReplyDeleteOther than that he's great on the PP and transition game. He just has to be paired with a good guy defensively (Maybe Smid)
I'm just perusing the FA list on CapGeek for defencemen and I'm wondering if there's any chance in hell of Eric Brewer returning? I have no idea how well (or not well) he's been playing in Tampa, and I doubt he'd have any motivation to want to return, but if he did I think that would certainly be something worth chasing.
ReplyDeleteThere'a a few other good options available as well. Obviously Bieksa would be the prize. I'm just spitballing here, but how would you guys feel about going after one or more of the following:
Kevin Bieksa
Brent Sopel
James Wisniewski
Christian Ehrhoff
Hal Gill
Eric Brewer
Joni Pitkanen
Scott Hannan
Jan Hejda
Kent Huskins
Jonathan Ericsson
Shane O'Brien
I don't know a whole hell of a lot about any of those guys outside of Bieksa and Brewer.
Hard to imagine Pitkanen coming back. Hejda's not been looking good lately by the numbers. I thought that Sopel was eighty-seven years old now, but it appears he's only thirty-four - just one of those guys who seems to have been around forever, I guess.
ReplyDeleteBroadly speaking, I would be in favour of the Oilers signing any defenseman who can play in the NHL without embarrassing himself.
Sopel's most recent Twitter post: "In the mood for a little game. What team do you think I'll play for next year?"
ReplyDeleteSomebody with a Twitter account want to respond with "Edmonton" and see if he wets himself laughing?
SS: He runs around town on a tractor. Perfect fit for Alberta.
ReplyDeletePart of Whitney's apparent puck luck was his ability to nice make the breakaway pass. That weapon helps the points total with first assists and/or keep teams honest coming the other way. Either way his and the team's +/- benefits. His game was similar to Lubo's that way minus the skating but plus penalty killing ability. As much as i liked Lubo, that was a good trade by ST.
ReplyDeleteWisneiwski would be tempting to go after, but why has he played for four teams the past few years at his age?
ReplyDeleteGuys at CnB put up Strudwick's Scoring Chance With/Without stats today.
ReplyDeleteThis one blew my mind:
Whitney w/ Struddy .533
Whitney w/o Struddy .452
Is Struddy the secret weapon to Whintey's success last year?
My guess is that he wasn't playing toughs when with 43, but its still makes you go "huh?"
I've said it a few times. Jonathan Erickson is the one we should target. He started to play tougher minutes in the playoffs, and he's in the age range that a 3-4 yr deal is not a crazy idea. Detroit won't have a ton of cap space, and a 3 year $2.5/3 mill deal may get it done. He's solid defensively, has some clue offensively and he is calm with the puck. He is a great option to pair with Whitney as our top pair, then you slot Gilbert-Peckham, Smid-Petry. Young yes, but some complementary skills with each pair. And not to mention he's another swede. Let's just add Swedes and Finns this off season. Maybe it'll help. Can't make us worse anyways.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if it's healthy having a Captain like Horcoff for the next number of years. I just hope his wheels don't fall off and he ends up an Ethan Moreau type Captain in the near future. It's obvious the young guys are looking to Whitney already.
ReplyDeleteJohnathan Eriksson < Gilbert and a similar player.
ReplyDelete@ryan
ReplyDeleteIdk where you get that from. All I have read about Horcoff was that he was a fantastic captain this season and has the respect of everyone on the team.
Furthermore captaincy can change hands
Hey Lowetide, I know this is an "expos" board (RIP) but how about Bautista in Toronto, freakin monster....with 3 dingers today.
ReplyDeleteAny and all sports fans owe it to themselves to watch Bautista right now. This guy is Barry Bonds minus the juice.
ReplyDeleteHis patience never ceases to amaze me. I've lost count of how many times he's gone down 0-2 and just waited his way back to 2-2 before finally getting one in his wheelhouse that he can just crush.
ReplyDeleteAlso, could someone who knows more about baseball give some context to Bautista's numbers? Is 13 HR in 109 AB a good ratio? is 19 strikeouts bad? Good? Average?
His HR rate is Ruthian plus a little, his K rate is solid for a player with that kind of power (if you're talking 19 whiffs in 109 ab's).
ReplyDeleteRob Deer and Dave Kingman could strike out 19 times in a weekend.
Melanchol,
ReplyDeleteThey were showing the graphic of home runs per # at bats. He is at 8.1 currently I thought I saw. Tabler commenting for Sportsnet said that is unheard of, not sure what historical average is though. Bautista comming up now again...#4??
//The Edmonton Oilers roster depth on the blueline is razor thin.//
ReplyDeleteAnd the majority of the Oilogosphere has been seeing RNH good, instead of a 20-minute per game all situation defenseman.
Do we need to have the BPA conversation again? I'm fine if they take Larsson btw. I don't think they're going to.
ReplyDeleteFinns take the worlds.
ReplyDeleteFinns=wins.
So happy for Finland. They won the gold, against their biggest rival, in crushing fashion, and got a measure of revenge for one of the worst collapses in World Championship history.
ReplyDeleteHelsinki is a fun town generally but it's going to be absolutely wild tonight.
Suomi!
His HR rate is Ruthian plus a little, his K rate is solid for a player with that kind of power (if you're talking 19 whiffs in 109 ab's).
ReplyDeleteRob Deer and Dave Kingman could strike out 19 times in a weekend.
They were showing the graphic of home runs per # at bats. He is at 8.1 currently I thought I saw. Tabler commenting for Sportsnet said that is unheard of, not sure what historical average is though.
So what I'm taking away from this is that Bautista should be an early favourite for AL MVP even though the Jays have just been average?
Just for Dennis, new ISS rankings :)
ReplyDelete1. Nugent-Hopkins, Ryan, F 4/12/93 L 6.00.5 170 Red Deer WHL
2. Larsson, Adam, RD 11/12/92 R 6.03 209 Skelleftea SweE
3. Couturier, Sean, C 12/7/92 L 6.04 195 Drummondville QMJHL
4. Landeskog, Gabriel, LW 11/23/92 L 6.00.25 205 Kitchener OHL
5. Hamilton, Douglas, RD 6/17/93 R 6.04 190 Niagara OHL
6. Zibanejad, Mika, C 4/18/93 R 6.01.5 191 Djurgarden SweJE
7. Huberdeau, Jonathan C/L 6/4/93 L 6'1.25 168 Saint John QMJHL
8. Murphy, Ryan, RD 3/31/93 R 5.10.25 168 Kitchener OHL
9. Strome, Ryan, C 7/11/93 R 6.00.25 183 Niagara OHL
10. Klefbom, Oscar, LD 7/20/93 L 6.03 196 Farjestad Swe18
11. Bartschi, Sven, LW 10/5/92 L 5.10.5 175 Portland WHL
12. Siemens, Duncan, LD 9/7/93 L 6.03 197 Saskatoon WHL
13. Armia, Joel, RW 5/31/93 R 6.03 191 Assat FinE
14. Beaulieu, Nathan, LD, 12/5/92 L 6.02 185 Saint John QMJHL
15. Grimaldi, Rocco, C 2/8/93 R 5.06 163 USA Under-18 USHL
16. Miller, JT, LW 3/14/93 L 6.01.25 198 USA Under-18 USHL
17. Scheifele, Mark, C 3/15/93 R 6.01.5 177 Barrie OHL
18. Murphy, Connor, RD 3/26/93 R 6.03 195 USA Under-18 USHL
19. Brodin, Jonas, LD 7/12/93 L 6.01 165 Farjestad SweE
20. McNeill, Mark, C 2/22/93 R 6.01 204 Prince Albert WHL
21. Oleksiak, Jamie (Fr.) *, LD 12/21/92 L 6.07 244 Northeastern H.E.
22. Jensen, Nicklas, F 3/6/93 L 6.02.25 188 Oshawa OHL
23. Khokhlachev, Alexandr F 9/9/93 L 5.10 188 Windsor OHL
24. Saad, Brandon, LW 10/27/92 L 6.01.25 208 Saginaw OHL
25. Rask, Victor, C 3/1/93 L 6.01.5 194 Leksands SweAl
26. Musil, David, LD 4/9/93 L 6.03.5 200 Vancouver WHL
27. Rattie, Ty, LW 2/5/93 R 5.11 170 Portland WHL
28. Puempel, Matthew, LW 1/24/93 L 6.00 198 Peterborough OHL
29. Phillips, Zack, C 10/28/92 R 6.01 181 Saint John QMJHL
30. Ritchie, Brett, RW 7/1/93 R 6.03 210 Sarnia OHL
Finns take the worlds.
ReplyDeleteI see MPS got the only Swedish goal.
Fasth gives up 6. That should lower his asking price.
ISS May rankings have Couturier 3 behind RNH and Larsson.
ReplyDeleteLooks like the petitioning by LT, fpb and his mom have paid off.
Another interesting ranking is Zibanejad at 6. I don`t know much about him, but Derek Zona loves him, and he usually has the goods.
Bah, PDO beat me to the punch.
ReplyDeleteThat`s ok, he was the one who told me. :)
How about a different angle? 20 years hence, which of those top 30 players for the 2011 draft is most likely to have played less than 100career nhl games?
ReplyDeleteI'm going with Oleksiak.
You know with a first name like Mika, he might have some Finn in him.
ReplyDeleteMOVE UP AND GET HIM!!!!!!
The Paajarvi goal was sweet. I'm watching the game and Fasth looks a little shaky but the Swedes are up 1-0. It's like waiting for a comet.
ReplyDeleteWG: Indeed.
ReplyDelete''Zibanejad's father is Iranian and his mother is Finnish.[7] His half-brother, Monir Kalgoum, is also an ice hockey player, who currently plays for Milton Keynes Lightning''.
Curious as to the prospect junkies thoughts on scott mayfield? Early in the year he seemed to consistently be in the top 30 lists but seeing less of him now. Looks to be a good option for the Oilers if he makes it to the 2nd round?
ReplyDeleteNelson: His production dropped, and now he struggled to score in a high school league. I'd go away from that.
ReplyDeleteKlefbom at 10?? Dang, I was hoping the Oilers would get him at 31.
ReplyDeleteHalf Finn half Iranian?
ReplyDeleteIf he doesn't make it as a hockey player I want to go into business with him.
Finns have an extremely good work ethic on the whole, and some of the best businessmen I know are Iranian (although most I know prefer "Persian", as they don't like being associated with the medival thinking gov't that currently runs that fine, ancient culture)
i think there has to be some PED concerns with Bautista.
ReplyDeleteHas there ever been a player turn it around this dramatically at such a late age?
in 2008, splitting his seasons, he hit .238 w/ 15 homers and 370 ABs. 2009, 2007 and 2006 were eerily similar. And I mean eerily. he batted .235 twice in those years and had between 13 and 16 homers every year.
And then all of a sudden he hits 54 homers and bats .260 (a career high) and start the next season on pace to blow away a sosa/bonds/mcguire type season.
currently he's on pace for a .380 batting average and 81 homers. he'll obviously slow down, but...
he has a very consistent established level in his late 20s and then all of a sudden he turns 30 and is the best ever? that doesn't happen much. At the end of last year, i was thinking that this was Brady Anderson all over again. For those who don't know, Brady signed a 5-year $31 million contract with the Orioles after the 1997 season. It is widely speculated that Anderson’s 1996 season was aided by steroids. The light hitting outfielder who averaged 16 home runs between 1992 and 1995 exploded in 1996 with 50. he hit 18 in 1997.
I hope it's clean, but everything points otherwise.
on other topics, how'd the Finn Dman look?
Regarding Bautista. He remarkable improvement has been attributed to increasing bat speed to the point where he has one of the quickest bats in baseball. If that PED inducing so be it...but I'll chalk it up to someone wanting to improve his swing and his game.
ReplyDeleteThe first thing to check is ballpark effects. Did he move from one park to another? Is it a hitter's park compared to his previous one? Are his home HR's a lot higher now?
ReplyDeleteBallpark effects. Hank Aaron had some of his greatest home run seasons after moving to Atlanta and he must have been mid-30's by then.
@Dm there's improvement which tends to be slow and gradual throughout our 20s and then there's what bautista has done in his 30s.
ReplyDeletei'd like to believe it's all hard work and desire, but he used to be a ford focus and all of a sudden he's a ferrari and there was no indication anywhere to suggest he was "ramping up" ... no indication of upward arrows in previous years or changes in his style/swing to suggest that he was learning to catch up (more long foul balls)...
i trust the mlb about as much as the tour de france
I think one of the factors that keeps him clean in my mind (Bautista) is that his physiology hasn't changed all that much.
ReplyDeleteIf you look at other players it's drastic (Bonds, Giambi, Mcguire)
@LT, he had just under 50% on the road last year, but this year i about 11 are at home -- so a high number at home. Have we seen this effect on other players who've come to the dome?
ReplyDelete@fbp
ReplyDeletei don't know anything about PEDs but would assume that not all of them mean that your physique changes all that much -- some work on fast tissue fiber alone. Bautista has talked extensively about how he's rebuilt his swing (grip, leg kick, hitting point and past the ball) and Gaston has helped build hitters, so who knows. i hope it's clean, but he's achieving levels right now that very few clean people do, which is an unfortunate way to speak about a sport.
Duce
ReplyDeleteWe are screwed then. Lowebellini just signed him to a 4 year $15 m contract
Still say biggest freak shows in baseball-- stats wise is Henry Aaron's last decade in majors and Ted Williams stats n/w/s missing 4 years to military commitments
Jfry: Well yeah, but all the guys who got caught for that had similar changes. (From lean to bulky/fat) Unless they developped something new...
ReplyDeleteThe thing about Whitney is that no one knows his top end. He's never had a healthy season.
ReplyDeleteThat ISS list is putting a massive amount of emphasis on the U18 Tourney. They tend to promote the European prospects too.
I'm looking for penalties taken/penalties draw differential.
ReplyDeleteIs there a league-wide stat for that anywhere?
Behind The Net has penalties drawn per 60 and penalties taken per 60.
ReplyDeleteTrak:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=41&s=7&f1=2010_s&f2=5v5&c=0+1+3+5+41+42+43+44+45+46#
Not perfect... doesn't give you the differential, so you have to do that by hand.
Still available though.
Suits best towards your cherry picking anyway :)
Yeah, I seen that BTN has the single version and not the differentiated version (that makes as much sense as NHL.COM telling how many shots are in the Vancouver/San Jose game but not telling us the actual score). If I was looking specifically at Oilers it wouldn't be too bad but my curiosity is league-wide and it would be too much work.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I'd rather the Oilers try to emulate what Vancouver is doing on the backend.
ReplyDelete$24,000,000 to spend on your top 6?
Spend $4,000,000 per D.
Much prefer that to getting $10,000,000 ticket and having $14,000,000 left for the last 5.
LOLongo!!!
ReplyDeleteWell played Bob.
ReplyDeletemygatura - what I play in mybanda
Vancouver - Sedin/Kesler
ReplyDeleteSan Jose -Thornton/Pavelski/Couture
Boston - Bergeron/Krejci
Tampa - Vinny/Stamkos
Not that good centermen matter.
Trak:
ReplyDeleteI'm not so sure Couture is that much better than Gagner, but time will tell.
That said, I'm glad we agree that RNH should be taken #1 OV and then sent back to WHL to put on 15 lbs of muscle and mature his game a bit.
Beyond that, couldn't we do the same with any position?
Roloson, Luongo, Niemi, Thomas and Khabibulin.
One of these things is not like the other...
Edler-Bieska-Ehrhoff-Hamhuis-Salo
Boyle-Vlasic-Demers-White-Murray
Chara-Seidenberg-Kaberle-Boychuk-Ference
Hedman-Brewer-Ohlund-Kubina-Clark
Whitney-Gilbert-Smid-Peckham-Petry
One of these things is not like the others...
PDO: If you ask me that SJ defense outside of Boyle is pretty bad.
ReplyDeleteApparently canucks can hook thru the neutral zone and hold in the slot but as soon as a Shark taps a guys glove meaninglessly we have a close up of DSF in skin tight green lycra by the penalty box.
ReplyDelete"Edler-Bieska-Ehrhoff-Hamhuis-Salo
ReplyDeleteBoyle-Vlasic-Demers-White-Murray
Chara-Seidenberg-Kaberle-Boychuk-Ference
Hedman-Brewer-Ohlund-Kubina-Clark"
I don't think any of these teams get in the playoffs with Edmonton's forward group.
"I'm not so sure Couture is that much better than Gagner, but time will tell."
Couture is better in all 3 zones. By a mile.
I doubt Gagner would even crack San Jose's roster. He would be fighting tooth and nail against Wellwood and as sad as it might be, Wellwood is more responsible with and without the puck.
Wellwood was 13 1 6 7 +7 before entering tonight's game.
ReplyDelete+8 for his career
Gagner is -47 in his short career
Glen Healy is fucking awesome at calling penalties against SJS. Asshat.
ReplyDeleteThis game is reminding me of the ANA - OTT finals a few years back. Strength contest.
ReplyDeleteTrak:
ReplyDeletePut Edmonton's forward group on Tampa or Boston with the same D-G and they'd make it in the East.
Similarly, swap Horcoff and Gagner for Sedin and Kesler and the Oilers are still no where close in the West.
Oilers have a ton to fix, and they're in the real conference.
Sadly, our GM is content with sitting around waiting for hopes and dreams to come true, so we won't see any progress until his ass is out on the curb, along with his mentor Lowe.
And hopefully Laforge too, just because he's an asshole.
"This game is reminding me of the ANA - OTT finals a few years back. Strength contest."
ReplyDeleteI lost a fortune on that series.
The Ducks were allowed to set more picks than an NBA game.
Whitney is just a pleasure to watch, so calm under pressure. Really hoping for a healthy season.
ReplyDeleteFor those interested, here's a scout's view of Bautista and the changes made. I for one think he's clean, the changes seem significant and I don't see how PEDs would help his vision, timing, and patience which have all improved dramatically, but I'm biased.
http://tinyurl.com/bautista-AOL
I am trying my damnest not to check the score, listen or watch the game right now because everygame I haven't watched, listened to or checked the score on Vancouver has lost. Every game I have done any of those things Vancouver has won. So I am totally boycotting the game until around 11pm or so tonight.
ReplyDeleteFPV:
ReplyDeleteTake out Boyle and you still have 4 legit top 4 D in Demers, Murray, Vlasic and White.
"Put Edmonton's forward group on Tampa or Boston with the same D-G and they'd make it in the East."
ReplyDeleteNo they don't.
"Similarly, swap Horcoff and Gagner for Sedin and Kesler and the Oilers are still no where close in the West."
Edmonton would likely make the playoffs.
"Oilers have a ton to fix, and they're in the real conference."
The NW is the new SE.
"Sadly, our GM is content with sitting around waiting for hopes and dreams to come true, so we won't see any progress until his ass is out on the curb, along with his mentor Lowe."
If fans like yourself had got your wish in terms of player depth acquisitions we would likely be sitting with Columbus in no-mans-land.. and no RNH either.
Maybe another Pouliot though.
Horcoff and Gagner for Kesler and Sedin would cause a +80 goal differential on the Oilers.
ReplyDelete- Traktor
And I mean... are you seriously going to give credit to Tambo for getting Hall #1?
ReplyDeleteBecause that was far from intentional.
And RNH isn't Hall, as much as I like him.
That's funny, I cleaned up on that series. ANA was a no-brainer. Guess we should take your Oil-would-make-the-playoff predictions with a grain of salt then.
ReplyDeleteI'm not naive enough to think that someone - perhaps Bautista - hasn't figured out how to cycle outside or game the new PED testing and maybe the only other explanation is that he's that much better than everyone else.
ReplyDeleteThere are a lot of reasons why I'd like to see the Expos back but one of them would be for them to somehow get to vote to contract the Jays like TO did to Mtl all those years ago.
In closing, fuck those guys.
On 6, if you believe in SC's - and I can't see why you wouldn't - then you don't expect Whitney to come close to those numbers next year. And if you can read, period, then you just wait for him to get injured again just as much as you do with guys like 10.
6 is a great quote and seemingly a great fellow and that seems to have a lot of truck with fans and also internet-journalists like Brownlee and then the narrative gets stronger and stronger.
I think he's a fine player but this year looks to be the exception rather than the rule.
I'm with Traktor here.
ReplyDeleteWhy plug holes with stopgap talent too early? While we are in the cellar, develop the kids and get another high pick.
It's not about Tambellini when you suggest fixes, so it's off point to discuss whether Hall was Tambellinis plan, the point is, that had EDM plugged the obvious holes down the middle like everyone was clamoring for, and on D, we'd have Nino Niederreiter and not Taylor hall.
There's a direct correlation there.
EDM aren't making the playoffs next year regardless, so I'm ok with delaying the veteran patches until 2012-13 when the kids are driving the bus in PvP match ups.
PDO:
ReplyDeleteI'm not going to give Tambellini credit but if he had listened to the fans that called for 6's, 7's and 8's to fill out the roster I have no doubt in my mind that Edmonton would be in much worse shape today.
Hell, if I thought Shawn Horcoff was, as you have stated numerous times, a top 20 NHL centermen, and if I shared LT's opinion that Gagner was Doug Gimlour, or Zona's opinon that Gagner is Bobby Clarke, then perhaps I would have been advocating for depth..
But you guys are living in a subsystem like a digestive enzyme in your stomach that knows how to break down food wonderfully but that also knows absolutely nothing about farms, gardens, safeway ect...
Trak:
ReplyDeleteYou play to win.
If you're not gonna win, sign vets to 1 year deals and send em away at the deadline for picks.
Sure would have been nice to have someone other than Penner to deal away at the deadline, no?
Also would let us not throw kids right into the fire like Gagner... let them come in slow like Couture.
... fucking Bieksa.
danny: the kids were close to doing that last year.
ReplyDeletethere's no need to suck again just because you're afraid to try and compete.
Which ever ref called that an elbow on Heatly should never ref a NHL game again.
ReplyDeleteEspecially if its the same one who called the phantom hook.
Its the goddam WCF and that fucking penalty gave the power play that gave the Dys the lead?
NHL should be ashamed.
Not sure I see the logic in inflating your points, via 1 yr vet contracts, effectively knocking yourself out of the lottery pick, so that you can hopefully trade the vets for 2nd and 3rd rounders at the deadline.
ReplyDeleteThey never had much success getting any interest in Vandermeer or Jones?
It only took 3 phantom calls for Van to get the lead!!
ReplyDeleteFriggin Assholes at work at watching the game and I can't help but hear it so now of course since they turned it on Van gets two goals. SoaB
ReplyDeleteI get your frustration Dennis, management's not accountable when the mission isn't to win games. I think that kills you more than anything.
ReplyDeleteVets for wins next season is lipstick on a pig IMO.
I'm all for making real moves to compete next season, but stopgap would hurt the longterm more than help.
Some people plan for the future, others are content living paycheck to paycheck.
ReplyDeleteMost people on this board offer the paycheck to paycheck version of what Tambellini should do with the Oilers.
Dennis just wants a 6pack and playoff hockey.
PDO thinks his Sunfire complete with a spoiler could take on anything on the road.
You guys are all great people but lordy.
Danny: I just think it's naive to think you'll get everything you need from the draft. And I think it's easy to fall into the trap of all the high picks and thinking that's the be-all end-all and you don't really have to try and compete until Joseph Smith tells you he's found the tablets.
ReplyDeleteDo we have everything we need up front? No.
what about on the backend? no.
Trak: You don't understand what a guy like 10 brings to a club but you're still able to judge others?
No.
Dennis:
ReplyDeleteI know what Horcoff brings.
On a good team he makes 1.5M playing on the bottom two lines.
He leads by example in the workout room. And that's it.
Danny
ReplyDeleteIt s really this simple: the NHL is a gate driven league and I have spent $35K (42K if you count this coming year) since we last made the playoffs. So as much as you would like a third straight 30th overall, 1st pick overall, I want someone to try to compete.
So when Lowebellini signs nobody this offseason and tell us we have real prospects ......and we end up 28th, I join Woodguy and the Oil can find someone else to pay them $8K for a season of bad hockey
When you are spending other peoples money, it's real easy to suck, me I'd rather try to compete
I don't think we will get everything we need from the draft.
ReplyDeleteI do think that lottery picks are potential franchise cornerstone players though.
So I don't see the value in clawing for 20th overall, when the players you hire to get to 20th, are available every season with different nameplates.
This is terrible timing to inflate your standings with stopgap players. Terrrrrrrible.
Next April we are either talking about drafting 10th overall and how Reasoner + Hejda had solid seasons, or drafting 2nd overall, and signing Moore + Burns to start competing.
Toj: it's your right as a paying fan to speak your mind and more importantly with your wallet.
ReplyDeleteThat doesn't change the logic though. Edmonton aren't a playoff team next year, so your return on investment is going to get uglier regardless.
Let's say you overpay for 2 of Bieksa, Hejda or eric Brewer plus sign Boyd Gordon and Scottie Upshall.
ReplyDeleteThe Oilers would have to increase their payroll by $14 m but with those additions we are able to compete for a playoff spot. But will fall short....... Likely
Stevie Y would give us an even money shot at the playoffs. Lowebellini: we will hear that CVDV is ready for the NHL. he won't be and 30 games in we will be ensconced in 26th overall
That doesn't change the logic though. Edmonton aren't a playoff team next year, so your return on investment is going to get uglier regardless.
ReplyDeleteDo you know what's going to get really ugly if the Oilers don't start to compete soon?
The players.
Horcoff, Whitney (two older leaders), as well as Eberle and Hall (two younger leaders) are all on record as saying they'd like some good NHL vets to help the team start to win.
The players are as tired of the crap that has been added to the roster as much as those of us who bitch about it here.
Congrats to Kootenay, Owen Sound and now Saint John in winning their respective leagues. Along with Mississauga will be your 4 Memorial Cup teams.
ReplyDeleteWoodguy said...
ReplyDeleteThat doesn't change the logic though. Edmonton aren't a playoff team next year, so your return on investment is going to get uglier regardless.
Do you know what's going to get really ugly if the Oilers don't start to compete soon?
The players.
Horcoff, Whitney (two older leaders), as well as Eberle and Hall (two younger leaders) are all on record as saying they'd like some good NHL vets to help the team start to win.
The players are as tired of the crap that has been added to the roster as much as those of us who bitch about it here.
Sunday, May 15, 2011 9:12:00 PM MDT
The Oilers are at least 5 years away from making the playoffs,
Lowe's gaffes, signing Horcoff to that contract , Khabibulin, Gilberts's embarrassing contract and adding players like Fraser and Foster should indicate there is a chimp steering the ship.
It will get ugly.
And so it should.
In a perfect world, you would fullfill the kids wishlists as much as you can.
ReplyDeleteIn the big picture though, three of the four you listed are long term Oilers, that arent going anywhere regardless. 2011-12 lack of vets will mean zilch if its addressed in 2012-13.
We're junk, whats the big hurry to get to 20th overall? It's coming soon because theres a lot of talent here. Its just young talent that needs another couple seasons to knock the tar out of the opposition.
The price of a competent mid-career top 4 defenseman is $4 million per year, which is exactly what Gilbert earns. There is nothing wrong with his contract.
ReplyDeleteIt will get ugly.
ReplyDeleteAnd so it should.
DSF, if you are leading the charge, I wouldn't count on anyone here going over the top with you.
I don't think this is a playoff team and three mid level free agents won't get it there. There is just too many holes and too much inexperience.
You may not like it but that die was cast when Donairman was sent to LA.
This season is going to be about Hamilton, Lander, etc, etc developing in the AHL and RNH getting another year of junior a la Braden Schenn.
I think the best thing that Tambo can do is to try to bring in a few freeagents with an eye to flipping them at the deadline. The guys from the farm then can step up.
A 25th place finish is about where they will end up.
If you don't like the long slow tank-rebuild Tambi-style, then stop going to games.
ReplyDeleteThat worked pretty well in Chicago, but it took 2 years to see results.
Also, we surely don't have our version of Duncan Keith yet, who they drafted before the franchise forwards.
The difference is that the guys saying let's wait for whichever ones of Hamilton, O'Marra,CVDV, Marcinin, Lander develop don't have to pay for the wait. They just have to wait.
ReplyDeleteSo Rick when you say quit going to the games:
I could not give away my tickets from February onwards.
I agonized over renewing but did so. If we get another 28th place finish, my seats will be available. So rather than saying why don't I quit going ...... Give me your number and I will call you and you can step up to the plate and pay real $$$ for atrocious management and the prayer that Stu MacGregor stuffs so many prospects into the system that even Lowebellini can't f**k it up
Sorry to be ungracious but I am tired of paying for colossal mismanagement and then being lectured on why the Oilers have so bleeping many reasons why they cannot compete
Trak: You can say 10's overpaid and I will agree you.
ReplyDeletebut if you say he's a bottom sixer then you're ignorant.
danny: what about wasting years on the kids entry level deals with more dumpster diving.
Huberdeau wins first star of the last game and the Saint John's Sea Dogs win their ticket to the Memorial Cup.
ReplyDeleteBuddy finishes with 16 goals, 14 assists and 30 points in 19 games.
On pace for the season.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAnd RNH isn't Hall, as much as I like him.
ReplyDeletehe is not Sam Gagner
2.22ppg CHL 1.5PPG CHL same 29% from goals.
RNH is sam gagner lite.
RNH didn't play with Patrick Kane.
ReplyDeletePDO: That doesn't change anything in this situation.
ReplyDeleteThe difference is that the guys saying let's wait for whichever ones of Hamilton, O'Marra,CVDV, Marcinin, Lander develop don't have to pay for the wait. They just have to wait.
ReplyDeleteHaving a good enough team to fight for the playoffs and justify the purchase of tickets this year is different from rebuilding the team so that it is a Cup contender.
I'd rather have the Oilers suck for the next two years and then take the pieces they have to build a very strong team.
After the Cup runs I watched the Oilers field a team year after year that was designed for the short term just to make the playoffs. They needed the playoff revenue and they were not going to be able to compete for any FA's so a long term approach was out of the question.
I have no desire to go back to the mediocrity of years past.
The fact that you don't want to pay to see lousy hockey for the next year or two is understandable, but that doesn't make your argument on approaching the future any stronger.
RNH didn't play with Patrick Kane.
ReplyDeleteRNH also likely didn't get the kind of TOI Hunter is famous for giving his best players in London.
One of the guys mentioned in the ISS article at HF is a German named Sebastien Uvira. He plays for the Landshut Cannibals.
ReplyDeleteIs that a great name for a team or what?
Kypreos saying Glencross 10m/4 with a no movement.
ReplyDeleteTSN article on Jagr:
ReplyDelete"You never know. Maybe it will be still fun to go back to NHL. Maybe Pittsburgh. I don't know. Maybe Montreal. Maybe New York," Jagr told the Journal. "Pittsburgh, I played there for a long time. Mario (Lemieux) is the owner. It's better to play with great centres like (Sidney) Crosby and (Evgeni) Malkin, this game is a little bit easier and I'm not young anymore.".......""New York, I always had a great feeling about that city. They gave me a second chance. I never forget about that," Jagr told the newspaper. "And Montreal and Canada, it's totally different hockey. The fans are crazy about hockey and I've never played in Canada in my life. You never know."
I thought it was Edmonton he said he would come back and play with in the NHL.....maybe Hemsky is getting moved and Jagr knows it...lol.
Kypreos saying Glencross 10m/4 with a no movement.
ReplyDeleteAt least we can end the speculation on that particular FA.
expustra - the sound from the fans after the last home loss of the season
McKenzie...
ReplyDeleteCurtis Glencross's new deal with CGY is 4 year, $10.2M total, $2.55M annual cap hit and a no-move clause.
Danny, Trak
ReplyDeleteYou guys both realize that Eberle was drafted at 22 right?
So you're suggesting Tambo try moving his 1st rounder for 22nd overall this draft?
ReplyDeleteGregor is that you?
No. Your point was that if the Oilers had plugged some of their holes, we would of ended up with Nino Niederreiter instead of Taylor Hall. Im saying it doesnt have to be that way, as Eberle is proof. The Oilers didnt have to fall in a lottery position to get him. You can win and still get good prospects.
ReplyDeleteWe have enough good prospects, lets start building a team and fix whats wrong with the team, not plan for another 30th place finish.