I'm not certain of the correct formula, but would suggest in today's cap world draft picks, value contracts, employing veteran NHL players and staying the course are at least part of the equation.
The teams that made the final four (but faded) have done similar things, but have more work to do. In San Jose, they need defensemen who can play and in Tampa Bay they need to be more effective at even strength.
Here are the pennant winners since 1967:
- Montreal (11): '68, '69, '71, '73, '76-'79, '86, '89, '93
- Boston (8): '70, '72, '74, '77, '78, '88, '90, '11
- Philadelphia (8): '74, '75, '76, '80, '85, '87, '97, '10
- Edmonton (7): '83, '84, '85, '87, '88, '90, '06
- Detroit (6): '95, '97, '98, '02, '08, '09
- New York Islanders (5): '80, '81, '82, '83, '84
- Chicago (4): '71, '73, '92, '10
- Dallas (4): '81, '91, '99, '00
- New Jersey (4): '95, '00, '01, '03
- Pittsburgh (4): '91, '92, '08, '09
- Calgary (3): '86, '89, '04
- New York Rangers (3): '72, '79, '94
- St. Louis (3): '68, '69, '70
- Vancouver (3): '82, '94, '11
- Anaheim (2): '03, '07
- Buffalo (2): '75, '99
- Carolina (2): '02, '06
- Colorado (2): '96, '01
- Florida (1): '96
- Los Angeles (1): '93
- Ottawa (1): '07
- Tampa Bay (1): '04
- Washington (1): '98
- Atlanta
- Columbus
- Minnesota
- Nashville
- Phoenix
- San Jose
- Toronto
- Brian Sutherby will be by to talk about injuries during the playoffs and how players often evade telling exactly what’s going on.
- Ted Wyman from the Winnipeg Sun will discuss the slow moving Thrasher sale to Winnipeg interests.
- Craig Button returns, this time to take us through the process of coming up with “the List.” We’ll also talk about the Memorial Cup.
- Ian Walker from the Vancouver Sun visits to tell us about the left coast and Vancouver’s humble fans.
- Mario Duhamel, coach of the Drummondville Voltigeurs will give us a close up view of Sean Couturier and the kind of player some NHL team will acquire.
- Mike Speidel, speeds for oilogosphere readers will drop in to give us his impressions of this year’s draft. Mike is an outstanding handicapper of each season’s NHL draft.
Sorry LT champions league today at 12.45 pm so will be tuning in for only first 30-45 mins.
ReplyDeletelol. No worries. Wanye is going to post the show quickly this week, so it should be available over at Oilers Nation within 24 hours of broadcast.
ReplyDeleteI am hoping those Big Bad Bruins come through, but I sure am not putting any money on it. It would be nice to see the 'Nucks join St. Louis with an 0-3 Stanley Cup Final record.
ReplyDeleteBut alas, that probably is only wishful thinking ...
But there is always the silver lining of futility for the Leafs to keep me happy. :o)
LT - I know that this is an obvious one but ask buddy from Drummondville why he thinks SC's stock has dropped so much, its got to be more than the skating, see if he can shed some light on that. Everyone says his skating flaws are easily corrected, maybe he has some inside dope on compete level, maturity issues etc.'
ReplyDeleteLove the show, listen to it everyu week.
Awesome that you have speeds on today. Will listen in.
ReplyDeleteI look forward to you having BDHS on when you have a masterbation focused show.
I put my hand up when the topic is incoherent raving and establishing narratives and nicknames.
We have already been told the reason: upside. RNH's better vision and creativity give him more upside. Apparently.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if I agree with that ranking decision, but I can understand it.
Is it strange that the 4th best PPG scorer is ranked at the top? Probably but I don't know for sure.
VAN and BOS have excellent management. Players want to play in these cities in solid management situations. Good story about Mike Gillis in yesterdays Globe and Mail. Still don't like the guy tho.
ReplyDeletenumness = too much rum
I think there's a good chance Colorado will take Couturier 2nd.
ReplyDeleteIt gives them the Pitt style three strong C's roster set up and it allows them to trade Stastny later on if revenues don't pickup.
GOOD NEWS FOR BOSTON FANS
ReplyDeleteMy hot redhead celt gf says it's going to be the Bruins, when I asked her.
And no, she can't predict which game they win it.
Re Gillis etc: I don't care who Kevin Lowe likes, or not.
ReplyDeleteThe GM that gets players in exchange for draft picks on or leading up to draft day doesn't get enough credit. Those deals often end up as great value for the team getting bonifide NHL'ers in exchange for draft picks that, outside of the top 10, should really carry limited value. They usually do until draft week when every first round pick seems to be worth a proven first or second line NHL forward.
ReplyDeleteI wish the Oilers could step back from the draft hype and be on the receiving end of such a deal one of these years. We seem to cling to our "bullets" tightly. For example, our LA first rounder might be wisely spent as part of a package for Carter as has been rumoured.
Kudos to Chia for having the vision to orchestrate last year's move to get Horton. Without him, they may very well have been golfing many weeks ago. Oddly, it was felt that FLA won that trade when it went down in June last year. Or perhaps not oddly since it was draft week after all.
Ashley:
ReplyDeleteBut those deals have value when you are contending or ready to contend. Does it make sense to do a multiple asset deal for Carter in our situation. I say "no" at this point.
Carter would be a fantastic pick up if you were going to keep Hemsky, believe Hope can play with the big boys in 2 years and were serious about competing as an NHL team moving forward.
ReplyDeleteWould love to see the actual plan because it certainly seems like it consists of having most of our draft picks performance exceeding their draft spot. That may happen, but is certainly iffy!!
Absolutely sure, though, that whatever the plan is supposed to be it does NOT consist of being as bad as possible deliberately. Although we do have very good management if that were our goal. There is nothing to prevent management getting a 3C that wins faceoffs, kills penalties, etc. If Lander comes over and takes that spot, you have a very good 4C.
About this time last year I wonder if STambellini asked himself: in a year that Chicago needs good young CHEAP players to outperform their contract......"Why is Stan Bowman willing to trade me Colin Fraser"? because Oiler fans certainly know, today, why he was willing to do that: he can't play. so to the extent that is part of the plan, grab that portion of the "Plan", tear it out out of the book and shred the paper, never to be used again!
LT
ReplyDeletegreat topic with Sutherby! What Klowe and Jumbo Joe did in playoffs is pretty impressive. for Joe to play in elimination game with badly injured shoulder speaks to his fortitude. those two guys were not the problem against Vancouver.
I hate thinking about this Jeff Carter talk, because the guy is in my top five favorite non-Oilers in the NHL right now (Weber, Zetterberg, Toews, and Keith being the others, with a strong honorable mention to Crosby and Lidstrom). I'd "lose my shit" (as the kids say these days) if we were to acquire him.
ReplyDeleteCarter-Horcoff-Gagner down the middle would be quality. It's the classic solution of "add a guy at the top of the order, move everyone else down a slot, and suddenly things look WAY better". And Philly would basically require picks and prospects in return due to their outright lack of cap space.
I don't think they'd give Carter away though. We'd probably be looking at something like the 19th and 31st plus Smid and perhaps another piece to make it fly. But it would likely be totally worth it in the long-run. The guy is old enough to be a veteran "leader" but young enough to fit with the "core" going forward".
But who are we kidding? The Oil management aren't smart enough to identify making a move like this (and then subsequently drafting Larsson) as a possibility. More than likely they'll draft RNH and create another redundancy on the roster (Nugent-Hopkins and Gagner down the middle) while leaving a gaping hole on the blueline.
Until I see otherwise, I'm not about to believe that Lowe and Tambellini are intelligent. If they're not intentionally tanking, they're incompetent - and either case is grounds for dismissal (at least if they were working in an environment where management was accountable for poor performance).
Oh, and go Barcelona FC in the Champions League final. Manchester United is from the same family of sports organizations as the New York Yankees, and for that, they can go fornicate themselves.
ReplyDelete"It's the classic solution of "add a guy at the top of the order, move everyone else down a slot, and suddenly things look WAY better"."
ReplyDeleteI've only been saying this for 4-5 years now with little to no support.
Certainly beats the "add Jim Dowd/Wez Walz" argument.
hbomb continues..
ReplyDelete"But who are we kidding? The Oil management aren't smart enough to identify making a move like this"
LOL
It only took you 5 years to identify the merits of such a move. Sorry, but you should be the LAST guy to harp on management.
Traktor: it's one thing we can agree on. The same damn thing happened when they brought Pronger in. There's only one problem with it - guys like this don't come available often in the trade market, so "easier said than done".
ReplyDeleteWith that in mind, if either Weber or Carter is available in the trade market over the next 6-8 weeks, Tambellini better be making the calls to see what it would take to acquire them, because he's not doing his job if he isn't.
And yes, I'd put the first overall in play for either, since it's more likely than not that Carter or Weber would exceed the ultimate upside that Nugent-Hopkins or Larsson would reach, 5-7 years down the road.
It only took you 5 years to identify the merits of such a move. Sorry, but you should be the LAST guy to harp on management.
ReplyDeleteI've never said such a move isn't a good idea, Mr. Doesn't-Get-Context.
What I have said repeatedly is that these moves are NOT easy to make. How often do top-20 centers or top-10 defensemen get traded? The answer - VERY rarely.
My current worry is that they'll use the "excuse" of "doing things the right way through the draft" as reasoning not to even look into it. This whole 4-6 year timeline they've presented is total nonsense - it shouldn't have to take that long, and in the new NHL, where the 3rd year of an ELC for an elite youngster presents exceptional probability for outperformance of cap hit, the Oil should be thinking in terms of the 2012-13 season and not 2015-16 (considering they potentially have THREE of these deals in their third year at the same time).
Ah, the weekend. Best part about this one is that I get to go out and enjoy my new golf clubs and all it's spoils. Callaway - every bit as good as a Ping or Nike (test shot all three).
ReplyDeleteAnyways, how is this Oiler related you ask? Well, at the insistence of a friend, the clubs needed a nickname. We summarized that they're light, durable, shaft blue in color, and the head office of the brand is located in Ontario, Canada.
Naturally, the clubs now carry the nickname "Taylor".
hbomb:
ReplyDeleteYou thought Shawn Horcoff was a top 20 NHL centermen and Sam Gagner was Carolina's version of Eric Staal (in terms of being able to kill soft opposition).
Carter
RNH
Lander
That's a real group of centers.
"Naturally, the clubs now carry the nickname "Taylor"."
ReplyDeleteWhy didn't you just buy Taylor Made's?
I think the ELC argument is invalided as well.
ReplyDeleteELC have value when you have a bunch of good players making money.
Right now Edmonton doesn't really have any.
When Taylor Hall and Jordan Eberle are making 6M its going to be the next croup of kids on ELC's that will be important.
Carter is a top ten goal scorer and those come around 1 every 2-3 years. they should be taken in the top three. this drafts top end is in the 1999 or 1998 range.
ReplyDeletedo you pay Stefan(RNH) (3.75M) or carter 5.27M.
Nothing less than a top 6 pick gets him.
there is alot of other desirable dollars that can come off first.
Can we agree that we do not know yet what we have in Gagner?
ReplyDeleteIf we think we do we might as well go manage the Flames, the organization that thought they knew what St. Louis and Savard were long before anyone could actually know.
Gagner has done well to this point. Now we have to see if he takes the next step or not. At wing.
I think the ELC argument is invalided as well. ELC have value when you have a bunch of good players making money. Right now Edmonton doesn't really have any. When Taylor Hall and Jordan Eberle are making 6M its going to be the next croup of kids on ELC's that will be important.
ReplyDeleteThe Penner trade made this assessment more true.
You thought Shawn Horcoff was a top 20 NHL centermen and Sam Gagner was Carolina's version of Eric Staal (in terms of being able to kill soft opposition).
ReplyDeleteOnce again, a lack of context, which is typical. I don't think we want to get into a situation where we're dragging up "stuff that people have said in the past", because that is not a discussion you'd come out looking good at the end of, sir. But putting that aside for now:
- I argued that on his best day, Shawn Horcoff was the 20th best center in the NHL, as at the time, I had identified 18 "elite" centers.
- I also argued the dynamic of Horcoff/Gagner was similar to that of Brind'Amour/Staal in Carolina in terms of mentorship - nowhere will you find me comparing Staal directly to Gagner (and I already explained this once this week on BDHS).
Carter
RNH
Lander
That's a real group of centers.
Based on what - all the NHL games that RNH and Lander have played?
Carter/Horcoff/Gagner blows that trio away now, and for at minimum the next three years. We have no clue what Lander and RNH pan out to be at this point (although there's high hopes for both) - so to call it a "real group of centers" is premature, to say the least.
This debate is fun - definitely a better investment of wits than any sort of response to PJO's pathetic troll-like attempt to restart a pissing match that I walked away from a week ago - sure goes against his argument that he's "matured" since getting banned from Oilfans over a dozen times. But hey, a leopard doesn't change their spots, I guess...I'll stick to talking hockey with Traktor and the other adults in attendance.
glergin: what one purchases when they don't have enough money for Bombay Sapphire.
Ooh, it's heating up in here again.
ReplyDeleteGreat lineup for today's show, but I may be the most excited to hear from speeds. Love his draft takes.
Oh, and go Barca. I came for Thierry Henry but I stayed for Messi. That guy's Soccer Gretzky.
ELC have value when you have a bunch of good players making money.
ReplyDeleteRight now Edmonton doesn't really have any.
And this is a whole other issue altogether - my hope for them trying the "accelerated contention" timeline, as spOILer has pointed out, went out the window with the Penner trade, as it removed 20% of the roster content that fit into the category of both "good" and "experienced". Now we're down to Hemsky/Horcoff/Whitney/Gilbert who would fit that particular classification.
I'll be happy to see another playoff game in Rexall at this rate (possibly liberal assumption: new arena opens fall 2014).
"Can we agree that we do not know yet what we have in Gagner?"
ReplyDeleteI don't think he's every going to be a David Bolland type or a Ryan Kelser type. Can we agree on that?
He could pump up his point totals but how much he helps his team will will always be debatable imo.
"If we think we do we might as well go manage the Flames, the organization that thought they knew what St. Louis and Savard were long before anyone could actually know."
Do we know what Rob Schremp and Marc Pouliot will like 5 years from now? I like Gagner's chances better than Schremp or Pouliot but still. I think this is kind of the logic that has kept JFJ on the club for so long.
This debate is fun - definitely a better investment of wits than any sort of response.
ReplyDeleteLOL. Just giving you a taste of your own medicine, and an illustration of how foolish internet chest pounding is.
Carry on.
Man U will have a difficult time with Barca's midfield. Both have quality up front. Both are mostly shite on the back line (compared to their own past teams not the league weaklings). But Barca's midfield is superior, mostly due to the aforementioned Messi who has finally managed to stay fit.
ReplyDeleteMan U needs a midfielder good at ball retrieval. God knows Scholes ain't that guy. Love him, but he's the last guy you want attempting dispossessions.
spOILer: Would you be so kind as to post updates from the game? I'm stuck at work today (was hoping we'd get "smoked out" like yesterday and sent back to camp so I could watch, but the forest fire side-effects up here seem to not be as severe as 24 hours ago, and as such the work day carries on), so any sort of running commentary would be appreciated.
ReplyDeleteToo many people in this country don't appreciate soccer - fact is, when you watch high-end soccer (or any sport, for that matter), it becomes infinitely more entertaining. Considering the number of Spanish nationals on Barca's current squad, I'd call it an upset if Man U takes it today, but as we know, in a one-game situation, anything can happen.
Nonio: reserve goaltender for the Brazilian national soccer team.
ReplyDeleteI don't think he's every going to be a David Bolland type or a Ryan Kelser type. Can we agree on that?
No one's going to argue that. Apples to oranges comparison.
I'm pro-Gagner, but I'd deal him straight-across for Bolland if we were to bag Carter somehow. But I doubt Chicago gives him up - they've got a good thing going down the middle with Toews-Sharp-Bolland, and like Pittsburgh, I doubt they bust up their "big three" down the middle as long as their salary structure allows for it (and given that neither Sharp or Bolland is making huge coin, I can't see it happening anytime soon....the Pens, on the other hand, may decide at some point that two centers making 8.7 million each doesn't work).
ReplyDeleteLOL. Just giving you a taste of your own medicine, and an illustration of how foolish internet chest pounding is.
Carry on.
Seek professional help. Obsession is unhealthy.
HBomb, I will do my best, but it might be advantageous to pull up the BBC's running play by play. Updates every minute or so.
ReplyDeletespOILer: I'll give it a shot and see if the firewall here allows me to track it that way. Good tip though, thanks.
ReplyDeleteSounds like Puyol is not available for the match.
ReplyDeleteVancouver's humble fans, ftw.
ReplyDelete"I also argued the dynamic of Horcoff/Gagner was similar to that of Brind'Amour/Staal in Carolina in terms of mentorship - nowhere will you find me comparing Staal directly to Gagner (and I already explained this once this week on BDHS)."
ReplyDeleteThat's not what you argued in the past. When it comes to this shit my memory is flawless. This stuff dominates my map representation in my brain like London cab driver that knows every nook, corner and cranny and the fastest way to get there.
I don't bring it up to bring up the past -I only do so to point out that what you perceive now is going to dictate your next next move, rightly, or wrongly.
I will leave it alone though and add that I thought Cogliano was a 25 goal scorer and JDD > DD just to be fair.
"Carter/Horcoff/Gagner blows that trio away now, and for at minimum the next three years."
Next year for sure but I don't know after that. I think RNH will catch Gagner after next year and Lander and Horcoff are going in the opposite directions and will likely meet somewhere in the middle.
Its almost a moot point though.. A little like arguing that Laborer at Suncor makes more money than an engineering student at the U of A.
Its totally possible you could come out of school and have trouble finding work but if you want to make the big bucks......
Seek professional help. Obsession is unhealthy.
ReplyDeleteIs that what you tell yourself in the mirror every morning?
That said, in respect of LT, I won't further pursue this.
I agree with Spoiler.
ReplyDeleteManU would probably loose. But I am cheering for them anyways
I used to love soccer. Played on the Alberta Provincial team was was kid.
ReplyDeleteGlasgow Rangers were always my club and Ally McCoist was my hero. I was also a massive Paul Gascoigne fan.
I haven't watched a game in like 10 year though.. just lost the passion.
Traktor: we'll agree to disagree. Under no circumstances did I ever attempt to argue that Gagner was on Staal's level. I like Gagner plenty...but when it comes to "complete" centers, I take Eric Staal over every guy in the league other than these four:
ReplyDeleteS. Crosby
P. Datsyuk
H. Zetterberg (when playing C).
J. Toews
I've got a pretty damn good memory too, and there's no way I made the argument Staal was a Gagner comparable, or ever intended to. Staal's elite and is somehow still underrated, and it boggles my mind.
Next year for sure but I don't know after that. I think RNH will catch Gagner after next year and Lander and Horcoff are going in the opposite directions and will likely meet somewhere in the middle.
Your timeline is more aggressive than mine. If they draft RNH, I'm hoping like heck they leave him in Red Deer this coming year and spread out the young talent a bit (If he's ready and makes the team out of training camp on-merit, by all means, keep him here - just don't guarantee him an NHL roster spot). So I'd say the earliest RNH passes Gagner is training camp 2013 (prior to then, the Oilers may make a decision on Gagner vs. Hemsky and shift 89 to RW if he's the one they keep - a decision that could be forced if NugeHop proves himself big-league ready this fall). And I'd say the same timeline holds true for Lander/Horcoff, at earliest (assuming one year in the A and two NHL "development" years for Anton).
I, like you, think both those kids could be very good eventually....but expecting them to be "high performers" right off the bat is not a smart bet. More often than not, the opposite is the case, and some patience is needed. For example - say the Oilers ice a quartet of RNH/Gagner/Horcoff/Lander three years from now. Then, it might be a very good center group. This fall? Likely a recipe for another lottery pick, because the two rookies WILL struggle. I'd rather they bring those two along in the fashion San Jose or Detroit would (see Couture, Logan).
Its almost a moot point though.. A little like arguing that Laborer at Suncor makes more money than an engineering student at the U of A.
Its totally possible you could come out of school and have trouble finding work but if you want to make the big bucks......
Trust me - speaking from experience, I know what you're getting at, and it doesn't work how you think it does, at least "up here". The laborers and guys "driving truck" have a head-start that takes years for a new grad engineer to catch up to - and they may never do it if they stay here. This place doesn't follow the normal logic when it comes to pay-grades. (as a sidenote: search "Fort McMurray Steve" on YouTube - you may only find the humor in it if you have spent time up here, however).
However, go anywhere else, and I see what you're getting at - get the degree, and in time, you're way ahead of the game. But off the bat? You're dealing from a disadvantage in terms of starting point and accrued experience from the 3-4 extra years spent in "school". Eventually though, the "skilled" individual does indeed surpass the laborer, once they too have accrued experience and assuming they have good work ethic and soft skills (because doing well in school doesn't guarantee success in the "real world", and vice versa). Nice analogy though, it does work when it comes to prospects for the most part.
Traktor: which team is it that's Rangers' main rival - Celtic?
ReplyDeleteIsn't that the rivalry where one team is mostly Catholic supporters and the other is the Protestant's "squad"?
If this is the rivalry I'm thinking of, apparently the nastiness of the fan interactions as Celtic/Rangers matches would put anything we see in North American pro sports to absolute shame.
pantal: any activities requiring pants.
Is that what you tell yourself in the mirror every morning?
ReplyDeleteRight, because I'm the one bringing up an argument that was over-and-done-with a week ago. And that "respect for LT" stuff is dripping with smarm, considering that if you were truly interested in NOT acting like a troll, you wouldn't have posted your transparent attempt to "start shit" in the first place.
Get a life and cut the blatant hypocrisy.
Huberdeau was chosen 5th Overall in the KHL draft.
ReplyDeleteWeird.
LOL at Button again.
Correction: Puyol is available... as a sub!
ReplyDeleteThe Captain is not in the starting 11 and Mascherano has been moved from Centre Back to Centre Half. Quite bizarre. No word if it is tactical or a fitness issue.
hbomb:
ReplyDeleteIt was in terms of Horcoff/Brind'Amour taking on the "toughs" and Gagner/Staal killing the soft opp. I'll just leave it at that.
"This place doesn't follow the normal logic when it comes to pay-grades. (as a sidenote: search "Fort McMurray Steve" on YouTube - you may only find the humor in it if you have spent time up here, however)."
I assume you're talking about "Steve Ginch" lol. I know that guy personally. His really name is Kevin and I used to party with the same crowd back in the day when I lived in Fort Mac. I've worked at both Suncor and Syncrude so I know all about pay-scale.
"which team is it that's Rangers' main rival - Celtic?
Isn't that the rivalry where one team is mostly Catholic supporters and the other is the Protestant's "squad"?"
Rangers and Celtics are huge rivals but I don't know all about the dynamics in terms of religion because I was mostly a follower from like 11 years old until I was about 18 and then lost interest.
Bought a jersey from Eurosport when I was like 10 years old and I was a fan every since. Plus all the old soccer dads were Celt fans so I loved trotting out with my Rangers jersey.
Man U the brighter side over the first 5 mins. Pressuring the wings well but no shots yet.
ReplyDeleteBarca has come on a bit after a poor corner call at the Man U end. Man U is trying to pressure the ball, deny time and space.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteRight, because I'm the one bringing up an argument that was over-and-done-with a week ago
And that "respect for LT" stuff is dripping with smarm, considering that if you were truly interested in NOT acting like a troll, you wouldn't have posted your transparent attempt to "start shit" in the first place.
Get a life and cut the blatant hypocrisy.
LOL, it was an innocent parody. You're taking far too much offense from it.
Laugh it off and move on.
Good effort by Barca sending one wide from 12 yds out.
ReplyDeleteMan u starting to give barca more space thru midfield. That will be trouble.
ReplyDeleteVilla just misses. Barca has taken control since the 10th minute:
ReplyDeleteHey LT - first time listener to the show. I'm impressed with the intelligent questions, the topics, and the guests themselves. Good stuff. I have to admit, though, I didn't expect your voice to be as energetic as it is ;)
ReplyDeleteWell done on a personal take on Couturier too. I (think) he's still my #1.
Anyone interested in this?
http://futureconsiderationsdotca.wordpress.com/2011/05/17/wilds-kuemper-could-be-unrestricted/#more-2986
Sorry, don't know how to post the link properly.
Traktor:
ReplyDeleteOk, then we're speaking the same language about Fort McMoney then. The Steve "cartoons" on YouTube almost constitute dark-humor in my books. Kind of a "it's funny because it's true, but if you think about it, it's NOT that funny" scenario. One of many reasons I'm glad to get the heck out of here for good in mid-June. It's different up here, and not in a good way - and one doesn't understand that until you work in this environment for a few years.
As for Celtic/Rangers, a quick Wikipedia search reveals this informative article. It's not just religious, it's political too, apparently. The only equivalent in North American sport I can think of (off the top of my head) would be the Notre Dame/Miami (Fl.) college football rivalry at its peak in the late 80's.
Goal!!! Barca! No chance for Van Der Sar as Alvez pulled 4 men to him and released Pedro for an easy shot.
ReplyDeleteChavez sorry, not alvez.
ReplyDeleteRooney equalizes!
ReplyDeleteTwo goals in a soccer match? Before halftime?
ReplyDeleteThis qualifies as an "offensive shootout".
Back in the day, Stauffer's line for that Notre Dame Florida rivalry was "Catholics versus Convicts".
ReplyDeleteCatholics vs. Convicts isn't a "Stauffer Original" - some kid at ND came up with it and started selling t-shirts.
ReplyDeleteThe ESPN documentary "The U" (about the Hurricane football program in the 1980's) is worth a watch - they spend a good chunk of the show examining some of Miami's key rivalries, notably with "The Boz" and the Oklahoma Sooners and the previously-mentioned Irish/Cane battles.
Messi! Brilliant goal and his first ever on English soil.
ReplyDeleteAll Barca in 2nd half so far. Villa! 3-1.
ReplyDeleteBarca wins with a dominating performance. Perhaps the best club side to ever win the Champions League. Essentially the Spanish National team plus Messi.
ReplyDeleteThere's only one decisive arbiter of bad management: losing money. In professional sports, that amounts to empty seats, network boycotts, canceled sponsorships, or a thick smokescreen of Bettman denials.
ReplyDeleteIn the business of selling hope, no management team ever professes to the fan base that their agenda is anything other than winning. Soon, or sooner than soon. A contrary confession leads to outcomes listed above.
A management team with the good fortune to find themselves at the helm of a rabid fan base achieves competence by the sole act of professing the goal of winning. Hope sold. Mission accomplished. Time for a siesta while the fans continue to show up. Add a pair of earplugs to drown out the chest thumping and other loud bleatings when the team performs badly, then sleep like a baby.
This team still has a few vestiges of decisions made under the EIG regime. At that point, the team actually was badly managed, as judged by looming outcomes, not that anyone on the EIG was doing an especially incompetent job. Much to their credit, they did manage to stick handle through some difficult conditions and achieve a survival outcome for the team and the city. In the process of which, they made any number of non-optimal hockey decisions, the culmination of which is to have a quality guy playing 1C who isn't precisely a quality 1C.
The funny thing in sports is that many season's ticket holders regard the price of the ticket(s) as a sacred trust. When you've entered into a sacred trust with a management group that doesn't deliver it reeks of incompetence. It also reeks, from another perspective, of reliance on the greater fool: if today's fan clan relinquishes their tickets in total disgust, a greater fool instantly materializes to snap them up.
From Paul Saffo on Edge.org
Time span of discretion is about achieving intents that have explicit time frames. ... Level 1 encompasses jobs such as sales associates or line workers handling routine tasks with a time horizon of up to three months. Levels 2 to 4 encompass various managerial positions with time horizons between one to five years. Level 5 crosses over to five to 10 years and is the domain of small company CEOs and large company executive vice presidents. Beyond Level 5, one enters the realm of statesmen and legendary business leaders comfortable with innate time horizons of 20 years (Level 6), 50 years (Level 7) or beyond. Level 8 is the realm of 100 year thinkers like Henry Ford, while Level 9 is the domain of the Einsteins, Gandhis, and Galileos, individuals capable of setting grand tasks into motion that continue centuries into the future.
I would have linked to this instead of quoting it, but the geniuses at Edge.org have broken fundamental affordances of web design.
Obviously, if you have Einstein in your management suite, you hope he's working on the next arena deal and not sizing up the next goaltender whose name ends with an "o" as an act of epic statesmanship.
(to be continued)
(continued)
ReplyDeleteIn sports, the three month time horizon is also known as "what have you done for me lately?"
Long ago I shared a car trip from Waterloo to Toronto with the boyfriend of my gf's roommate (a young woman who put the bounce in bodacious, whose taste in men involved attributes only she could perceive). An overpass on the 401 had been burned up in an accident involving one of those giant gasoline delivery rigs. Traffic was hellacious. One lane would move 50 meters, then the other lane would move 50 meters. By some miracle of testosterone, we spent pretty much the entire trip occupying the lane that had most recently advanced 50 meters (not while we were in it). If he didn't have to advance 20 meters to make his barging lane changes, we would have remained there until the replacement overpass was completed.
Not a good way to build a cup contender. To kill some time, I asked him what he thought of RNH/Lander down the middle. They were still in the cradle, but he was all for it.
There's no way to build a winning anything on a three year horizon. This team is still in the management phase "divest the EIG legacy".
If they manage in the short term to ice a playoff contender, management could sleep like babies wearing a cheaper grade of earplug.
Part of the business of selling hope is the occasional blood sacrifice among the coaching ranks. If Renney enjoys the Edmonton climate, he's got about a two year window to generate some credible arrows (not the kind from Planes, Trains, and Automobiles). But even there he only has to be as good as Barry Trotz, so it's not an impossibly high bar to clear even if central procurement flogs a Dustin Penner or two.
Fans with exceptionally short time horizons often become so steeped in cortisol that they don't even require hope: a visible tar baby is all it takes. If ever the day comes along where the team ragdolls the opposition over a forty game stetch, it turns out those same knuckle dragging nitwits have delivered us to the promised savanna.
About the curious case of the missing 3C: I have a feeling Katz doesn't regard the price of season's ticket as a sacred trust (whatever he says in public au contraire).
Fancy that, he's got one eye on the bottom line.
HBomb, Stauffer was unbelievably well-read (in sports) back in the day, so it wouldn't surprise me that he lifted that line, but keep in mind when I say "back in the day", I'm talking the early to mid 90s.
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ReplyDeleteThere are a lot of dumb people from NF who work at all those sites.
ReplyDeleteThere are also a lot of dumb albertans who work there as well.
I think those videos are funny but if they're made by someone who isn't a NFer then it's someone who has the blinders on nice and fucking tight.
So long as OIlers have a President Of Hockey Operations who sent the Sabres 4 1st round picks for a 1 time 40 goal scorer, this team is basically...
ReplyDeleteI have a question: Man U plays in the English League, right? So, is that the elite league? Or are all of the Euro leagues kind of equal and then today's game is the game to settle elite champions?
ReplyDeleteMan U plays in the English Premier League - which is the top league in England.
ReplyDeleteThe top 3-4 teams in the league get to enter a competition called the Champions league - in the old days(the 60's) they only used 1st place teams, but the money is too good so now they've added lower ranked teams.
It's more or less the club side championship of the world.
Oh yeah, most European countries get to enter at least 1 team.
ReplyDeleteThat's pretty close assessment, Lain. The Euro leagues, German, Dutch, French, Italian, Spanish, etc are all pretty close in talent at the top end and they all compete for the top players. So today was for the top club in Europe, which essentially means top club in the world.
ReplyDeleteThey're saying today that this Barcelona side might be top club of all time. And they're not far off in my opinion.
But as a note i'd say usually the English, Spanish and Italians have the most money (hence a lot of the time more entries/better clubs)
ReplyDeleteThe ridiculous hype attached to the England national football team has put me off soccer entirely.
ReplyDeleteThink a team with the hockey talent of Slovakia, every single time acting on and off the ice like they're something really special. This coming from the fact they haven't reached a final of a major competition since the 60's.
1966? Actually, think Leaf fans.
IF Canucks win the cup, their fans will realise that everyone will hate them unless they start toning down their self generated hype, mostly caused from 40 years of losing.
ReplyDeleteIn short, they'll calm down.
I wouldn't mind if the Oilers got into the Jeff Carter game, but I wouldn't go so far as to include the 1st overall in the deal.
ReplyDeleteI think the Oilers should also take a contract that Philly might want to get rid of in addition (Carle?, Versteeg?) both of whom have one year left.
19th pick, 31th pick, Pitlick (potential eventual Carter replacement), Smid (cheap veteran 3 pairing defenseman) for Carter and one of Carle or Versteeg.
And then draft Larsson.
P.S.
I think Versteeg would be a pretty good left wing for Horcoff and Hemsky, and he can kill penalties and play tougher minutes.
Versteeg, Horcoff, Hemsky
Hall, Carter, Eberle
Paajarvi, Gagner, Omark
Hartikainen, Cogliano, Jones.
Of if it were Carle, he would be a 3rd pairing power play guy.
Whitney (Sign Somebody Please)
Peckham Gilbert
Carle Petry
Godot: You get Carter and still put Horcoff on the 1st? C'man.
ReplyDeleteLOL, it was an innocent parody. You're taking far too much offense from it.
ReplyDeleteParody? You wish.
Thin-skinned attempt to re-start a week old argument, in which your trolling tendencies were exposed for what would seem to be about the 1000th time.
Lesson? A leopard doesn't change his spots.
Parody? You wish.
ReplyDeleteIt was the textbook epitome of a parody.
Thin-skinned attempt to re-start a week old argument, in which your trolling tendencies were exposed for what would seem to be about the 1000th time.
What's thin-skinned is internet chest pounding - behaviour you frequently engage in.
hunter if you think Canucks fans will "calm down" after winning a Cup, you've obviously never met a Canucks fan.
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