The final portion of his season--ironically the one that began with his first callup to the NHL--kicked off his strongest showing of the entire year. How do these things happen?
A few reasons, I think. VandeVelde probably felt comforable with his linemates (played with Giroux and Hartikainen 50% of the time at evens), and his role was likely simplified by the coaching staff.
He looked good, real good. Not Teemu Hartikainen good but like someone you could hope for and cheer on and maybe he'd score or make a nice play.
You couldn't say that about a few Oilers this season.
--
Chris VandeVelde 10-11
- 5x5 points per 60: 0.72 (17th among forwards but DNQ)
- 5x4 points per 60: nil
- Qual Comp: 2nd easiest faced among forwards but DNQ
- Qual Team: tied for 7th best available teammates among forwards but DNQ
- Corsi Rel: -13.5 (17th best among forwards but DNQ)
- Zone Start: 54.3% (3rd easiest among forwards but DNQ)
- Zone Finish: 59.5% (2nd best among forwards but DNQ)
- Shots on goal/percentage: 16 shots/0
- Boxcars: 12gp, 0-2-2
- Plus Minus: -6 on a team that was -52
- What do these numbers tell us? There aren't enough at-bats to prove anything, but at least we know coach Renney can protect players when he's of a mind to do it. He's shy offensively and his CorsiRel is shady based on how many minutes he played/zone starts/opposition. He did have a nice faceoff percentage (52.8%) in 159 sorties, so he was taking a lot of faceoffs and winning more than half of them.
- How could these numbers be better? You'd like a lot more offense but this is a small sample size. I don't think he was ready, so when viewed through that lens these numbers are plenty good. I don't know if he's going to be a player, though. In his favor, VandeVelde had a strong playoff after being sent down to OKC so maybe he just needed some confidence.
- He's big and a center who can win faceoffs. You bet, the Oilers need them by the dozen. However, the club also has Anton Lander arriving this fall and the Swedish kid could jump ahead of VandeVelde on day 1 of training camp. Plus one would hope they'll be shopping for NHL veterans at the position.
- What else can he do? He has enough size to impact the game physically. I see only one fighting major and it came after a high sticking penalty so maybe he has that gear. He only did it once, though.
- So he won't be an Oiler? Looking at the current depth chart, there's Horcoff, Gagner, Cogliano and Fraser clearly ahead of him based on how coach Renney used the roster last season. Add in Lander and that's maybe 5 ahead of him on the depth chart. Behind VV are O'Marra, Arcobello and Kytnar plus Pitlick might be in there somewhere.
- Can you see a scenario where he plays with the Oilers in 10-11? Sure. They draft RNH and send him to Red Deer, they move Cogliano to the wing and he beats out Lander for the 4line job.
- Will that happen? Who knows. The Oilers move in mysterious ways.
- What should happen? Tom Renney should walk into the office, drink a gallon of goat's blood, scream at the moon and threaten to burn crop circles on the lawn unless the Oilers hire an actual center.
- Oh.
Plus one would hope they'll be shopping for NHL veterans at the position.
ReplyDeleteRyan Whitney was interviewed by Jack Micheals on Stauffer's show today.
Whitney expressed the need for more NHL vets to help show the kids how to be pros.
The question was actually initiated by Micheals, so that actually bodes well.
Horcoff has expressed the need for more NHL vets in the papers as well.
Over/Under on the number of Real NHL Players that v3.0 signs/trades for this summer?
I set the line at 1.5.
I'm taking the under and I think that "1"'s pedigree of being an Actual NHL Player will be questionable.
On a good team VVV starts the year in the AHL (along with Lander), the fight for first center call up happens there.
In other news Bruce throws Khabby under the bus, backs up then runs over him again (and its well deserved) .
Also, Copper n' Blue hit v3.0 upside the head with stats for Khabby once here, and then
again here, and once again here.
Then in case you missed the message, ryanbatty writes a fanpost about it here.
MVP indeed.
Fist things fist, keep up the good work LT, secondly I will sacrifice 100 goats to the team that defeats the Canucks!
ReplyDelete"Tom Renney should walk into the office, drink a gallon of goat's blood, scream at the moon and threaten to burn crop circles on the lawn unless the Oilers hire an actual center"
ReplyDeleteSums it up perfectly LT. Best line of the month.
Not gonna happen with all the kids on the farm waiting to come up and struggle as they learn to swim, but would sure be the RIGHT thing to do so they don't get overwhelmed.
Sorry Wood I totally bought I had scooped this one, but thats pretty impressive evidence that Bulins time in Edmonton "should"'be over.
ReplyDeleteVandevelde and Lander should have one heck of a battle at TC for the 4th line C spot (Colin who?). Personally I think Lander wins it, but a good battle nonetheless.
ReplyDeleteAs for vets, finding veteran, ufa centers is tough business because everyone is looking for the ones that matter. Better off drafting and procuring centers. I think the Oilers will have more success finding a couple of ufa wingers to plug and play for now.
the battle for 4th line center spot should happen next year, not this fall, unfortunately.
ReplyDeletei would be happier than stink if we didn't field a rookie on the team next year. then let's bring in some kids who can make a difference.
the lockout was one of the best development years for some of our oilers who are "real NHL players". Torres and Stoll come to mind as players who benefited greatly from their time down there. I think the same can be said for Hemsky in Czech.
There's something to be said for putting someone in a position to succeed as opposed to just trotting out kids on the front line, like a slaughter.
could you imagine breaking camp with no rookies?
ailizeif - "as if"
I believe that the Oilers won't start moving towards contention by acquiring experienced NHL players until there is a financial incentive to do so, i.e. fans aren't as patient as the Oilers brass think/hope and stop selling out games.
ReplyDeleteActually, there's a good chance management will go the opposite way this offseason, as a lot of players in OKC look deserving of at least a shot, there's a decent change our first rounders could come in right away and they've made a bunch of signings to OKC.
In my previous post I missed the big post an d thread by Scott Reynolds aboutBuying out Nikolai Khabibulin that got the Khabby ball rolling at the CnB.
ReplyDelete14 had similar thoughts at the worlds about how vets can help the kids.
ReplyDeletehopefully someone's listening but then again maybe lander and hamilton have big camps and then we're even younger.
I like VV, but another year in the AHL would be great (for him and the Oilers). To me, the kid is David Steckel, and spending 3 years in the minors allowed him to take on a little bit of actual responsibility in his rookie year without getting completely destroyed.
ReplyDeleteMatheson has a piece about how smart Yzerman is. Makes me kind of mad. I mean what did he do? Bring in Brewer and Roloson, Moore and Bergenheim? Aren't those the kind of moves anyone here would have made? Common sense?
ReplyDeleteOr is the media here so used to NHL mgmt having no common sense when they see it they are shocked??
Not sure how many Eskimos fans are here but it seems to me if Eric Tillman watched the NHL for a year he would be a pretty good GM, much better than anyone currently working in the position
Yzerman also pried Gagne out of Philadelphia for very little, if I remember correctly. Or was that his predecessor?
ReplyDeleteIt is my hope that fraser is not apart of any roster discussions come september.. tho Some else will prob still push VV down the depth chart.. which is a good thing..
ReplyDeletelooking forward to seeing this kido develop (a future fourth behind Ladner?!)
.. Lander, that is..
ReplyDeleteI think Steve-Y deserves serious credit,.. you are right oilfan, he made moves that anyone here could have suggested.. the thing is, he did make the moves..
ReplyDeleteI view his time in Tampa as being very proactive (also resigned perennial all-star St.Louis to a decent contract).. His goalies stunk mid-season, he got a better one.. Also picked up bigger D-men in the offseason and at the deadline.. combined with gagne, and he improved the team in all aspects.. (cant give him credit for inheriting Stamkos et al. tho..)
Matheson has a piece about how smart Yzerman is. Makes me kind of mad. I mean what did he do? Bring in Brewer and Roloson, Moore and Bergenheim? Aren't those the kind of moves anyone here would have made? Common sense?
ReplyDeleteApparently common sense isn't that common.
In regards to Oiler management its as rare as Promethium.
VDV might be competing with Tanner House for playing time. They had very comparable college numbers and House had a nice little run (6G 5P) with the Barons last season.
ReplyDeleteI think Steve-Y deserves serious credit,.. you are right oilfan, he made moves that anyone here could have suggested.. the thing is, he did make the moves..
ReplyDeleteSt Louis with 99 pts and Stamkos with 91 would make any GM look good.
Oilersfan, don't forget that he also got rid of dead weight overpay contract Meszaros to Philly for a decent pick. That then cascaded to a salary cap crisis in Philly and they ended up trading Gagne for a song. Stevie Y essentially traded a mediocre overpaid player for one of the best wingers in the game currently, albeit a bit injury prone over the last 2 seasons prior to this one.
ReplyDeleteYzerman has been making good safe bets, and addressed needs on his team. Common sense, yes, but apparently common sense isn't all that common in GMs, and he got more done than most. Also I'll count the Meszaros and Gagne trades as freaking brilliant.
Link to Matheson's piece on Yz
ReplyDeleteSome of my favorite parts:
he got Roloson for a stocking stuffer (minor-league defenceman Ty Wishart). Roloson has a 2.01 goals-against average and .941 save percentage during the post-season.
Steve Simmons said something similar about Wishart, calling him a "footnote" to the Rollie trade.
Wishart went 1g 2a 5pt and +5 in the last 20 games for NYI
He's 6'4 222lbs 22 years old and is just finishing his ELC.
Why do "sports journalists" automatically assume a player is bad or a nobody if they haven't specifically watched him play?
Snow did well on that deal. I heard that Yz initially turned Snow down when he asked for Wishart, but relented when he couldn't find a goalie as good as Rollie.
Also,
From Yz:
"the stronger you are at the bottom end of your roster, the better you are."
Can someone spray paint that on the side of v3.0's car so he understands it?
If you look at Coachpb's comparison between WAS and EDM it shows something that I've been banging on since 4 & 14 started posting positive scoring chances against tough competition.
The Oilers top 6 are close to competing for a playoff spot (until they traded Penner) The soft spot via Dennis' scoring chances was 89 (and it wasn't gooshy soft, but softest in top 6)
The problem is the bottom 6, 2D, 4D and starting G.
All of the above except 2D are not tough to find. Yz found them fast and relatively easy (although he gave up a decent prospect in Wishart to get 20 games + playoffs from Rollie)
Now that they traded 27, there is a gaping hole at 1LW.
Back on the treadmill....
EDM's top 6 weren't as good or experienced as TBY's top 6, so no one is expecting a conference final appearance next year, but dammit, you have to start trying to win sometime.
All of Eberle, Whitney, Hall and Horcoff have said publicly that adding vets to the roster would be a good thing for the team.
I hope v3.0 is listening.
St Louis with 99 pts and Stamkos with 91 would make any GM look good.
ReplyDeleteLast year TBY finished 25th in the league while Stamkos had 95ps and St. Louis had 94 pts. Your argument holds as much water as a colander.
Why didn't they make their GM last year look good?
Perhaps because the GM didn't fill the G, D and bottom 6 holes that Yz did?
As idiotic as the Oilers "braintrust' appears to be, it wouldn't make much sense for them to act like Yzerman.
ReplyDeleteFirst off, the Oilers don't have Martin St Louis, or Stamkos, or Hedman...what they have is a fucked up abortion of a 30th place, 2nd year in a row, plainly terrible hockey team.
Okay, so Steve Y is the new Oilers GM and does basically the same things he'd done in Tampa. Would Oilers have a number 1 pick? I don't think so.
As much as i disrespect the Oilers "management", it's patently obvious that they're taking the long view re rebuilding ergo: Rome wasn't built in a day.
Flame on!
Tampa went #1 and #2 overall in consecutive drafts and then followed that up with a bottom-6 finish last year before they started filling holes.
ReplyDeleteSeems to be working out alright.
I wouldn't expect anything different from the Oilers this summer.
Pass the goat's blood.
ReplyDeleteYz may eventually fit into the category of GM that Holland in Det, Poile in Nash and some others do. You draft smart, find value fa's to fill holes (good pro scouting helps) and don't overpay in the league's silly season.
ReplyDeleteStill too early to tell with Yz, but everything he's touched so far is gold. He took very good notes in Det.
3.0 is getting some breathing space with MBS drafting. The AHL team has looked decent w/vet signings but nothing else about what he's done has panned out yet.
LT has said it and it could well be true. The kids future is assured, 3.0's is not. A 3rd straight season of suck with no significant progress on the NHL level can't be viewed as acceptable.
This draft, and how the team addresses holes with short-term, smart signings will be important to his future.
Why didn't they make their GM last year look good?
ReplyDeleteRick Tockett v Guy Boucher
This was probably Yzerman's most important move.
You could take the 09-10 roster, have it play the 1-3-1 under Boucher and it would have likely done a lot better.
You can also factor in another year of experience for Hedman and the emergence of Purcell.
Does anybody have a link to the Russia/Canada game?
ReplyDeleteLT,
ReplyDeleteI think I have another link filled post in your spam filter.
Ducey,
(that was my comment as "Darcy", my Google account is acting up)
Rick Tockett v Guy Boucher
This was probably Yzerman's most important move.
You could take the 09-10 roster, have it play the 1-3-1 under Boucher and it would have likely done a lot better.
You can also factor in another year of experience for Hedman and the emergence of Purcell.
This comment makes much more sense than your Stamkos/St. Louis comment, and I agree with most of it, except Yz made a bunch of small high quality moves with his roster, its not the same team.
Getting new coaches and other executive staff, adding players like Brewer, Gagne, Rollie, Bergenheim (Fins=Wins), Moore, Kubina, MAB, and getting rid of or not re-signing players like Meszaros, Konopka, Fedoruk, Foster etc. all point to Yz having the same mind set as many here.
Add good players when you can, subtract bad players when you can.
A strong bottom 6 can be just as crucial to success as a strong top 6.
@Rich
ReplyDeleteTake a look at Detroit's draft record a little closer.It's not better than anybody elses and in some years alot worse.1998 they took Jiri Fischer in the first round,then their next four picks before Datsyuk played a total of 2 games.1999 they had no picks in the first three rounds,but the three guys they took before Zetterberg never played a game for Detroit.One of them played 30 games for Columbus.They got lucky those two years.
Perhaps because the GM didn't fill the G, D and bottom 6 holes that Yz did?
ReplyDeleteThat's what Oilers need to do. Fill the G D holes.
Haha.. It makes me laugh that an argument against Steve Y being a good GM is that he brought in a better coach, who -apparently- is the person solely responsible to the turn around?!.. haha, thanks for adding another point to the 'good moves made by Steve Y-column'..
ReplyDeleteHunter, the conversation (imo) is about pro-active management.. assessing need and dealing w it.. any mule can GM a team into last place.. (THANK Goodness the oil have MB-Stu, or this Gong show would be nearly unbearable..)
Woodguy:
ReplyDeleteI like nearly all of what Yzerman's done, but, and this is an honest question, what's so great about picking up Kubina and trading Meszaros? I have seen very little of either player the last couple of seasons but superficially it doesn't really seem like this is that big a change?
Is it just getting away from the back-loaded, longer contract? The cap hits between Meszaros and Kubina are close, similar points, Meszaros crushes him in +/- but I suspect (haven't at all looked into it) that that is team and possibly usage related. Meszaros is only 25, so the term of the deal, him signed until 30, doesn't seem like much of an issue unless he's viewed as overpaid?
Canada-Russia quarter final in the WHC underway.
ReplyDeleteI'm interested to see what Eberle does =).
Kovy and Nash slashing at each other already off the opening faceoff.
Shots 8-0 for Canada so far. Tavares is all over the offensive zone, and the Russians are playing particularly physical and collapsing 5 men to the net.
ReplyDeleteSpeeds,
ReplyDeleteI actually like Mezaros, but he has a horrid contract. He's a slightly better version of Smid making 4MM/yr
He doens't play PP and plays 2nd unit PK (in TBY he was the 5th TOI/60 PK, and this year was 4th on PHI, slightly ahead of O'Donell)
You can't pay those guys 4.0MM/yr and Yz realized it and got him gone (plus with a back loaded contract he is making 4, 4.75, and 5.5 in real $ the next 3 years and that matters in TBY)
Kubina plays 1st PP, is making 3.8MM and the contract is done after next year.
They are similar at 5v5 (I actually think Mezaros has better numbers, but its not a huge cap)
1PP Dmen are not overpaid at 3.8MM, 2PK Dmen at 4.0MM are (and an extra 2 $ heavy years adds to the overpay)
Yz knew he was letting Foster walk and needed a 1PP Dman and did a good job getting Kubina for a reasonable number.
Getting rid of a decent, but vastly overpaid Mezaros helped him do it.
Lets not forget Yz did all this and was still almost 10MM below the cap.
ReplyDeleteThat's what Oilers need to do. Fill the G D holes.
C'mon Bruce, v3.0 is filling the holes.
He just lets MBS draft them, then we have to wait 5-7 years for them to be mature enough to contribute and actually fill the hole.
Get with the program.
WG, don't forget that on top of that, moving Meszaros to Philly exacerbated their already bad cap situation, and Yzerman then came forward again and sniped Gagne for relative peanuts.
ReplyDeleteCanada heavily out shooting Russia. The Ruskies are still scary though, they've broken in a few times with speed and Ovechkin had one dandy drive to the net looking for a weak Afinogenov shot rebound.
ReplyDeleteBurns just broke up a dangerous 2 on 1 by intercepting the pass, although it looked like a flubbed pass.
Fill the G D holes
ReplyDeleteG D stands for God Damn right?
My fear is that Tambi wants to rely on team success to attract quality bottom half vets when it just might be that team success depends on having quality bottom half vets.
WG, don't forget that on top of that, moving Meszaros to Philly exacerbated their already bad cap situation, and Yzerman then came forward again and sniped Gagne for relative peanuts.
ReplyDeleteExcellent point. PHI is capstrung hard for next year too. $59MM 18 players signed. Offer 1st OA + Cogliano or Gagner for Carter? (pipedream)
My fear is that Tambi wants to rely on team success to attract quality bottom half vets when it just might be that team success depends on having quality bottom half vets.
Aye, there's the rub.
Well I had a longer post typed up, but it got turfed.. so I'll keep it short and sweet...
ReplyDeleteFraser over Vande Velde is laughable. VV brings everything Fraser does, plus he was relied on heavy (except for in a few games) in his short stint here. It's a small sample set, but Vande Velde proved to be a good fit here whereas Fraser has looked to be existing as long as he possibly can.
Ditch the dead weight like Fraser and move on to guys that will play their bag off. And well, if they stop playing, you put in someone else. These guys are dime-a-dozen players.
If anyone wants to watch the game in Russian the link's here:
ReplyDeletehttp://telestad.com/index.php?page=ch1
Edmonton Oilers would be better off with ZERO NHL players; Tambellini would then be forced to go out at sign 20 NHL players instead of adding "depth" to the mirage of "NHL players" that this board swallows.
ReplyDeleteShawn Horcoff would be playing on Vancouver's 4th line. Sam Gagner would likely be in the minors.
But in Edmonton they are considered building blocks - top 6 forwards with own roles cemented, forever, in the minds of Edmonton faithful.
It's quite sad, actually.
To avoid blogger swallowing your posts, log into google or blogger first, then post your comments. Seems to mitigate problems. Of course copying long posts before hitting publish helps too.
ReplyDeleteSpezza opens the scoring, after a save off the mask, and a blocked shot, Petrel with stretch pass to a streaking Spezza who shot it right through the Ruskie goaler 5-hole.
WG, I don't know if I'd do 1st, Gagner, and Cogs for Carter. Think we couldn't have gotten Gagne for a 2nd and Cogs though? Only I doubt Gagne would want to stay in Edmonton; TB has a good chance to resign him at a reasonable hit one would think.
TSN feed is here:
ReplyDeletehttp://tonysportz.yolasite.com
You have to install the free Veetle plugin.
Uni,
ReplyDeleteGagne is almost done. His knees just can't take it anymore.
Haha.. It makes me laugh that an argument against Steve Y being a good GM is that he brought in a better coach, who -apparently- is the person solely responsible to the turn around?!.. haha, thanks for adding another point to the 'good moves made by Steve Y-column'..
ReplyDeleteWho said Yzerman was a bad GM? I was pointing out that he looks pretty samrt when he has a couple of 90 pt players. He could do all the tinkering with his bottom 6 he wants but if he doesn't have top end guys he is just Scott Howson.
I find if I use the preview button before trying to post, I never lose a long post. Just a hint for those frustrated by blogger.
ReplyDeleteIf VV can win a draw And be a factor on the PK then you keep him with the big club but if he can't then he goes back for more seasoning.
ReplyDeleteTo get the idea of depth I've been watching a lot of Craig Ferguson lately; I used to be a Conan guy but his monologues are so terrible and the writing is so bad in general these days that I still keep an eye on him but Ferguson's now my go-to-guy.
So, anyway, I saw Geoffrey Rush on Ferguson talking about the POTC series and he was talking about how one actor was in the background and he'd get the boring and non-sexy monologue explaining the mythology of the movie in order to bring everyone up to speed on the plot.
They call the guys plot-drivers.
And that's what the Oilers need.
A few of us cut our teeth on plot-drivers like the MGM line etc but those guys were a little bit more than that because they did their grind game while playing it against tough opp. Now, Lowe and Co have stripped out the team of any depth or hairy-ass types in an effort to get as many top picks as possible and also an effort to let every draft pick play.
But the days of that should be over.
As WG said - and as a few of us who were following the chances figured out early - we were on our way to having a top six that could already outchance and 27 was a big part of that. He'll have to be replaced now and I can imagine it will be by a kid.
But as for the rest it's time for the Oilers to try and find some vets who won't get killed in top nine duty and who can kill penalties and keep the top guys fresh. Guys like that entire Reasoner line in Fla etc etc shouldn't be too hard to find. But I wonder if in the recent past the Oilers even looked at those guys? Sure, they took a run at Malholtra but he was a shining star in the galaxy of defensive lesser-lights. Other guys are a lot harder to locate and are guys like Morey Gare etc falling down on that job?
All that being said I don't think anyone expects anything other than the forwards to be ready much quicker than the D.
6 is good but he's injury-prone and then there's a lot of kids who could be a long ways away from being top four guys. Kids like Peckham and Petry look good but when will they be ready to be leaned upon?
It will be interesting to follow just how much patience the club has with the D if the three kids make big strides this year.
G D stands for God Damn right?
ReplyDeleteYes it does, & yes, it was a joke based on the wording of a previous post.
Woodguy:
ReplyDeleteI don't have any strong opinion here, other than I REALLY like Meszaros in his draft year and I generally liked what I saw from him in OTT as a young developing D.
But, how is Kubina a 1st PP guy, and Meszaros not at all on PP?
I just looked up their BTN 5 on 4 numbers, both were 3rd among D in PP minutes with pretty poor results. Meszaros played about 2:20 per game on the PP, at 1.83 PP60, while Kubina played about 2:10 at a 1.62 PP60 clip.
Additionally, and I know you didn't say Kubina was a PKer, Kubina was 6th on TB in PK TOI per game (7th if you count Brewer) with just under 1 min per game, while Meszaros was 4th for PHI at just over 2 min per game.
Speeds,
ReplyDeleteI just double checked my number, and somehow I had filtered out Mezaros on the PP.
Dammit, I had a good narrative going.
That being said his GFON/60 was 4.66 in 09/10 and 3.96 this year in PHI. Not great.
Ok, he looks a lot better playing 2nd 5v5 minutes, 2nd PP and 2nd PK.
Still not sure that's worth 4MM, but its probably not far off. Not nearly as far off if he wasn't PP2.
I should stick with the old BTN site I suck at filters apparently.
Kaygorodov? just scored a short-handed goal with 10 minutes left in the 3rd to tie it at 1-1. Came blazing in. Also much ballyhoo is being made of the Russian PK, and judging form this gaame it's justified.
ReplyDeleteSomeone hire their special teams coach heh.