Edmonton Journal writers Jim Matheson and Terry Jones tear down the historic draft here. It's a stunning step into the past and is a terrific read these many years later.
Among the quotes I enjoyed most were Sather's comments on Messier ("he has unlimited potential") and Terry Jones comment that the odds of picking a blue chipper were "50-50 at best."
Pretty cool item.
--
Nation Radio goes today at noon on Team 1260 radio. Among the scheduled guests:
- Dustin Nielson, Team 1260 host and fellow draft nut.
- Matt Bugg, Senior Prospects writer for dobber hockey.
- Kirk Luedeke, Writer for New England Hockey Journal, New York Hockey Journal and the man behind the best draft source available on the internet.
- Matt Fenwick, Mr. Battle of Alberta and the closest I'll ever come to meeting Fibonacci.
thanks for the links.
ReplyDeleteHeres a funny excerpt from Kerry Frasers new tsn.ca gig. He was asked by a fan what coaches he liked/disliked. Really fun article, Read it here.
"Glen Sather was the guy with the best wit behind the bench I have ever seen. He was a master at taking the pressure off his players by keeping it loose. In 1985, the Oilers won the Stanley Cup against Mike Keenan and his Philadelphia Flyers. Toward the end the regular season, I worked the Oilers game in Chicago Stadium. The Oilers were getting trounced and the score hit double digits. Glen didn't want his team to carry a spanking of this sort with them into the playoffs. Frustration had set in and Kevin Lowe demonstrated this when he broke a stick over a Blackhawk with a couple of minutes left in the game.
After assessing the penalty, I noticed Glen and his entire team standing up on the players' bench with their sticks up confronting a Hawks fan. The last thing I wanted was to have players scale the glass and an incident with the fans. I rushed over and hollered at Glen and got his attention. Like a maestro conducting a symphony orchestra, he waved the percussion section to sit. All the players took their seats. I asked Glen if he wanted me to get some additional security over to protect his players and remove the 'obnoxious' fan?" (I just wanted the game over without having to write a report.) Glen replied, "No Kerry, everything's all right now. That @#$%* said the penalty you called against Kevin Lowe was @#$%* but we stuck up for you!" I laughed, Glen laughed but more importantly all his players laughed. The ice was broken; the embarrassment of a humiliating loss was derailed."
Classic story. Damn that's good.
ReplyDeleteAh, the long weekend. Best part about this one is that I get to go out and enjoy my new car and all it's spoils. Volvo S60 - every bit as good as a BMW 335 or Mercedes C350 (test drove all three).
ReplyDeleteAnyways, how is this Oiler related you ask? Well, at the insistence of a friend, the car needed a nickname. We summarized that it's fast, powerful, blue in color, and came from Sweden.
Naturally, the car is now carrying the nickname "Magnus".
What a draft year. Just look at the names.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl1979e.html
From the Kerry Fraser link
ReplyDeleteThe coach that unloaded on me with the most foul, vile, offensive language ever was Marc Crawford.
Anyone shocked
Thanks for the link to the Journal archives. Great find.
ReplyDeleteI love this line in Jones' article.
The name is Barry Fraser. If he turns out to be a good one (head scout), Edmonton Oilers may become the New York Islanders. If he isn't they could be the Vancouver Canucks.
Prophetic words on both the Isles and the 40 year cupless Dys (*spits*)
I like the part when Fraser says he drafted heart and not speed.
It did him well in those early years.
He must have left his heart in Canada when he set up shop in Mexico and drafted Bonsignor and Kelly.
HBOMB said, "Ah, the long weekend. Best part about this one is that I get to go out and enjoy my new car and all it's spoils..."
ReplyDeleteAh, are you trying to give me a case of linus envy? lol :p
That archived sportspage was golden. Sather just ripped Dennis Sobchuk. Not sure you'd read that as a quote from a GM now, unless Roenick somehow gets a GM job.
ReplyDeleteInteresting tidbit from Matheson's piece. I didn't know Jimmy Devellano was head scout for the Islanders in the 70's. No wonder Torrey was so smart then and Detroit got so good later.
Messier there really looks like Warren Clarke, the guy who played DIM in A Clockwork Orange.
ReplyDeleteHaving to tell the internet that your Volvo is better or even as good as a BMW/Merc, basically proves that it's not true.
ReplyDeleteThe name is Barry Fraser. If he turns out to be a good one (head scout), Edmonton Oilers may become the New York Islanders. If he isn't they could be the Vancouver Canucks.
ReplyDeleteHe turned out to be a good one, and then he turned out to be not so good, and the Oilers turned out to be both.
The coach that unloaded on me with the most foul, vile, offensive language ever was Marc Crawford.
ReplyDeleteAnyone shocked
Not. One. Iota.
The Isles/Canucks line was my favorite too. Damn that scan is hard to read on a mobile though.
ReplyDeleteGreat story too, Danny.
For those who haven't wandered over to the other site yet, RLR's May report is out. Finally capitulates and places RNH #1, but typically for Woodlief, has not one single comment about why or about any of the Top 10.
LT, check out my blog at http://dangerman75.blogspot.com. I have a little something written up on BPA vs Need and is likely summing up how you are feeling on the whole RNH debate.
ReplyDeleteThe Jones article also points out that Fraser is different in that he values heart in his picks - no Dennis Sobchuks.
ReplyDeleteIts strange in that the same organization the a hallmark of the Pendergast era are a lot of guys with talent but no heart (Bonsignore, Niinimaki, Kelly, Shremp, etc.etc). (to be fair Ryan Smyth was in there too)
Seems that MBS has tipped the balance back to guys with "heart" (now called "compete"). The only guy missing this from the 2010 draft is Martindale, but his talent was likely too hard to overlook in the 3rd round.
I think this "compete" is the thing that separates the Nuge from Couturier in the scouts minds.
love the fraser comments which probably best illustrates why is was great early and horrible late.
ReplyDelete"...if you watch a kid enough in junior, you know if he comes to play everyday."
also interesting to see sather say "it's proven it's better to go with kids" and then become one of the biggest FA signers of all-time
ReplyDeletetotally off topic, but doesn't Ville Lajunen sound like Chorney with a shot? or Grebeshkov without NHL experience? maybe i'm missing something in just looking at the stats/bios but his signing seems to be for the AHL to "replace" petry.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAh, the long weekend. Best part about this one is that I get to go out and enjoy my new car and all it's spoils. Volvo S60 - every bit as good as a BMW 335 or Mercedes C350 (test drove all three).
ReplyDeleteA shameless, thinly veiled brag about buying a new car.
You sound like Dan Tencer here.
Next you'll be bragging that you have a passport
Just putrid.
Screw that. I got a Tercel with pimpin' stereo. Way better than this Volvo garbage.
ReplyDeleteI was going to post the Fraser link last night but forgot. Good work, danny. Look back at his other articles for more great stories. It's really a look into the hockey world that you don't normally ever get to see. I've really enjoyed his appearances on the TSN panel as well!
ReplyDeleteAtlanta is said to have offered two picks, one of which was only two selections later, for the chance to draft Lowe.
Damn...That would have sucked.
- Ribs
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete"A shameless, thinly veiled brag about buying a new car."
ReplyDeleteIn related news, I had mind blowing sex with this swedish bombshell last night. How is this related to the Oilers? She was wearing crotchless blue panties very similar in colour to those MacFarlane Oiler jerseys. Needless to say, given her nationality, the colour and the gaping 5 hole so to speak, I felt compelled to nickname the undergarment.
Naturally the panties now carry the nickname "Salo"
Barry Fraser and Kerry Fraser on the same post. I love this blog.
ReplyDeleteI recall once sitting in my early 70's model LeMans somewhere in the Edmonton river valley, when I noticed this 40 year old businessman in the equivalent of that Volvo we're hearing about sitting in the next lane...the look on the other guy's face at the sight of me...with my beaten up wreck, but so obviously free of all worldly cares - taught me one of the biggest lessons in life.
ReplyDeleteThat MA Bergeron fight was just kind of sad, hah. The ref towering over the guys was a nice touch.
ReplyDeleteDownie reminding us why we all hate him. Just giving the lumber to a guy behind the net to start the scrum. Maybe it will ignit eth Bolts though. Worth a shot, I suppose.
Jesus, HBomb, that's dangerously close to OMF and his talk about his Acura TL back in the day on Oilfans, lol.
ReplyDeleteRoli's bubble looks to have popped.
Congrats on the new car HBomb.
ReplyDeleteProud new papa enjoying the fruits of your labour.
And the Bolts are definitely igniteth.
ReplyDeleteTed Purcell: Giving Lombardi the middle finger.
ReplyDeleteThe Seguin line scares me when they're on the ice. They seem to allow a quality chance against every shift.
ReplyDeletePierre McGuire just said live on TSNs broadcast:
ReplyDelete"I don't know Gord... I like the hot guys"
Watching Boston squander this game away has made me confront the reality that the Canucks are going to probably win the Cup. Think of all the awful people whose name will be on the grail... *shudders*
ReplyDeleteThanks, Smarmy, like I wasn't depressed enough.
ReplyDeleteSB: Tampa Bay probably has a better chance of winning the cup than Boston does.
ReplyDeleteMore balanced lines. The 1st line was shutdown very easily by Plekanec in the first round.
Ain't that easy now when you got 2 rocket richard winners on your club.
Danny:
ReplyDeleteThat was with 2:16 left in the 3rd.
Pierre McGuire: "I like the hot guys."
I fucking knew it.
@fpv. I suppose it could go either way. Tampa has a great PP but that blueline likely doesn't have the personel to give the Sedins fits like Chara could.
ReplyDeletePlus I love Rollie but I think he's running on fumes.
Hopefully, Thornton goes ape and destroys a few canucks. (Namely Burrows and Kesler)
SB: Yeah their D is shaky, but they were surprisingly good vs WSH who have ridiculous offensive talent. So it's a maybe.
ReplyDeleteYeah. Not over. Maybe SJ will finally get it. Poor Joe and Patrick.
That's true go Sharks!
ReplyDeleteI want the B's to make the final because Tbay already got a cup in 04 and I like to see first time winners (That are not the canucks) or teams on a long drought (not the leafs)
SB: But they're like the Canucks of the East. If the Oil would play them more often, you'd probably not appreciate them too much.
ReplyDeleteDirtier than the Flyers.
@ Lee
ReplyDeleteI wish I could have propped that comment. "Salo"--comedy god!
I want the B's to make the final because Tbay already got a cup in 04 and I like to see first time winners (That are not the canucks) or teams on a long drought (not the leafs).
ReplyDeleteThat pretty much sums up my philosophy except I would add "that are not the Flames" into both categories. Probably the Habs too.
I can see how a Montreal fan would have a strong disdain for the B's.
ReplyDeleteI like Lucic and have since his Giant days. I like Chara as well. (Probably the 2 guys Habs fans would hate the most)
SB: Well the Habs play a lot against Buffalo, Toronto, Ottawa and Boston, but they still get the crown for the biggest douches.
ReplyDeleteAfter that probably Philly then Calgary.
@spoiler
ReplyDeleteI agree as well except it's just a given that it never be the Flames. Back in 04 my best friend's father-in-law threw me out of his house because I was cheering for Tbay and my usual obnoxious manner.
@fbv I can see hating Toronto and Boston but I can't see having any feeling good or bad to Ottawa
ReplyDeleteEveryone has to love the flo. I'd wouldn't mind seeing Buffalo win the cup.
I don't like the Flyers either but it's waned from the Lindros days when they seemed to have the most annoying fan base.
If Ehrhoff (and to a lesser extent, Rome) are out, that significantly improves SJS's chances.
ReplyDeleteMcLelland having Thornton shutting down the pisscutters at 5v5 will shut them down too.
If SJS stays out of the box, they can win the series.
I'm not handing the Cup to the fucking Dys yet *spits*
The Dys are so likeable when their coach doesn't think they're undisciplined off the heels of giving up 10 PP opps and the captain thinks they only reason they lost was the other goalie stood on his head.
ReplyDeleteI mean, Jesus, give the other team a bit of credit.
Losing Erhoff just might tip things a bit the other way and I'm certainly banking on it. What we're seeing now is that Kesler's fallen off the map again but the Sedins and PP are picking up the slack - a long with a bit of work from their 3rd lines - and that's real balance.
In fact, they don't even ask a lot of their goalie anymore.
Speaking of Martindale, how did he do in the last half of the season? I know he had some consideration for the WJC team and both dailies did a story on him but I never heard tell of him afterwards.
Also, the trickledown of the NHL coming back to Winnipeg might mean that St. John's takes the Moose. It would be great to get to see the Barons two or four times a year.
Ah, those golden locks and boyish good looks.
ReplyDelete"Watching Boston squander this game away has made me confront the reality that the Canucks are going to probably win the Cup. Think of all the awful people whose name will be on the grail."
ReplyDeleteLike Jaroslav Pouzar and Basil Pocklington.
Like [...] and Basil Pocklington.
ReplyDeleteIt would be kind of awesome if the league X'd out Kesler's name.
Jaroslav Pouzar and Basil Pocklington
ReplyDeleteI liked Jaro.
I remember a game against VAN (before they were the Dys), probably in 83 or 84 where Pouzar and Jiri Bubla had an ongoing battle all game and after one good collision, whoever was going color quipped "There's two czech's that bounce!"
Jaro earned his name on the cup and Basil has been XXXX's off.
Gary Carter with brain tumours.
ReplyDeleteOne great Expo:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-garycarter-braintumors
Man, that sucks. Kid Carter.
ReplyDeleteDennis said...
ReplyDelete"Losing Erhoff just might tip things a bit the other way and I'm certainly banking on it. What we're seeing now is that Kesler's fallen off the map again but the Sedins and PP are picking up the slack - a long with a bit of work from their 3rd lines - and that's real balance."
Kesler hasn't fallen off the map.
He's been tasked with Thornton.
Nashville was easy since the Preds don't have any centre depth.
Kelser owned Toews and now has to find a gear to battle Thornton.
All the while making up for the loss of Malhotra who tales enormouse FO and PK pressure off.
To be 1 point out of the scoring lead, +7 and leading the entire playoff corp in TOI/G among forwards is remarkable.
Guy's a player.
Blogger Lowetide said...
ReplyDeleteMan, that sucks. Kid Carter.
So much of my adolescence was tied up in the Le Grand Orange, I'm a little embarrassed.
Exactly what a MLB player should be.
@Art Vandelay: Careful there, buddy, Jaroslav Pouzar is legendary in some quarters. In a good way. I for one loved the guy, and your characterization of him as an "awful person" is way out of line.
ReplyDeleteBasil Pocklington OTOH is notorious for two things: 1) being the only person to have his named X'd off the Cup. 2) Having a bastard for a son.
Kesler hasn't fallen off the map, he's entered low Earth orbit with that dive he took in the second period last night. 10.0 on the Louganis Scale.
ReplyDeleteA shameless, thinly veiled brag about buying a new car.
ReplyDeleteYou sound like Dan Tencer here.
Next you'll be bragging that you have a passport
Just putrid.
Putrid would be the unprovoked, childish, pointless personal attacks.
And thinly-veiled would be your bitterness towards me outing you as having been banned from multiple Edmonton pro-sports related message boards for your infantile behavior, Sundeep. Working on Oilfans alias #17 yet?
Thank goodness I don't give a shit what you think.
danny: Fruits of labor indeed. After two years in Fort McMurray (a 'sentence' which is shortly coming to an end), the new wheels would be my trophy of sorts, and I'm not afraid to admit I'm just a bit proud of myself, not so much for the car itself, but for what it symbolizes.
ReplyDeletespOILer: Don't think OMF didn't cross my mind when I posted that. I more figured that a debate about cars and the Magnus reference were more than fair game conversation-pot-stirrers. Some inferiority-complex-ridden trolls (i.e. PJO) don't seem to think so, but I don't give a rats' ass what they think.
hunter: I know exactly the opinion on Volvos you have and where it comes from. Older models from them are NOT esthetically pleasing one-bit. They've always been well-built cars, however. And the last couple years, they've improved leaps-and-bounds in terms of style and performance. If you get a chance, ride in an S60 - your opinion will be altered.
Blogger Bruce said...
ReplyDeleteKesler hasn't fallen off the map, he's entered low Earth orbit with that dive he took in the second period last night. 10.0 on the Louganis Scale.
Saturday, May 21, 2011 9:14:00 PM MDT
You've obviously lost your recollections of Tikkanen, Lineseman, Andersen and Gretzy.
World class springboard candidates in their day.
Let's get this back on track, folks.
ReplyDeleteJust a straight question, hoping for a straight answer, because I really don't know.
ReplyDeleteDsf, all rhetoric aside, are you an Oilers fan? Canucks? Both?
Hbomb: If I had any biterness towards you I would have done the same. That was kinda lame.
ReplyDeleteIf you just would have said ''Got a Volvo, feels nice, feels good'' probably would have passed better. But forcing it to become related/justifying was ankward.
On another note if I had a boatload of money, i'd buy that Saab sports/green car. It looks like it was taken out of a futuristic film.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIt hardly helped the mood that Harry the Hawk, the mascot of Atlanta's NBA club that is also owned by the Atlanta Spirit, rode up on a scooter, hopped off and handed out some high-fives before stopping to put his mouth over the head of Zanna Huff, a bystander wearing a Thrashers jersey.
ReplyDelete"Now he's trying to eat my girlfriend's head, which is disgusting," said Bryce McNeil, a 33-year-old professor at Georgia State. "Having Harry the Hawk here -- it's not that I have anything against the Hawks, but it's the Atlanta Spirit shoving their other asset in our face, which is just deplorable."
-tsn
2oo fans at the rally is also funny
congrats on the car. it's always nice when hard work comes back to reward.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteSo. This Nugent kid is number 1 in every possible scouting poll, has been compared to Gretzky vision-wise in hushed tones, has a fantastic attitude, is intelligent viz his career trajectory, can thread a needle with his passing...doesn't this make him the hands down fave to be picked by the Oilers?
ReplyDeleteLike - as in 20 to 1 odds on favourite?
PS: @H BOMB - Enjoy your new car, haha. Anyone willing to spend two years up north has earned every penny!
I haven't seen a fanbase or website that doesn't think the Oilers are married to RNH.
ReplyDeleteAnd thinly-veiled would be your bitterness towards me.
ReplyDeleteHow is that bitterness?
Only making an observation. This isn't the first time you've bragged about materialistic items.
Quite frankly, it's highly pathetic that you'd brag about and pretend it has any association with the Oilers.
Thank goodness I don't give a shit what you think.
Except you do. Otherwise, you would have ignored my valid criticism.
What nobody gives a shit is about a faceless stranger like yourself buying a car.
Grow up a little, will you.
If anyone is up earlyish this morning, the last day of the EPL season will be well worth watching. Manchester United have already won the league but there are still five teams - Blackpool, Blackburn, Birmingham City, Wolverhampton and Wigan - that could fall into the two remaining relegation spots. Relegation cost a team somewhere between $75M-$100M in revenue next season so they should be fighting like dogs to stay up. The games will all be played simultaneously so the teams in the relegation zone will change with almost every goal.
ReplyDeleteIf you want a team to support, I suggest Blackpool. They're a small team that has almost never been in the top division (think Kelowna in the NHL) but have played great attacking soccer and have fantastic fans.
The games start at 9AM Alberta time.
Judith (if that is your real name, or not just someone accidentally posting with their wife's Blogger account open, as we have seen before): I didn't even consider going Saab, mostly because something that I value when doing research on something like a new car is talking to people who actually own one - I couldn't for the life of me find a Saab owner. This is, however, the reason Audi got excluded from consideration very early on - I have yet to meet someone who has owned one and hasn't mentioned reliability problems.
ReplyDeletehunter: It takes a little bit of crazy in a person to do any sort of extended stint up-north, and living up there adds to said level of crazy. However, the experience was good (i.e. in terms of being able to put it on the resume), so I'd say it was worth it. Plus, due to 4am wake-up calls and the subsequent having to go to bed at 8pm most nights...I missed a lot of Oiler games in whole or in part the past two seasons. Given the quality of hockey being played, that was a bit of a blessing in disguise.
ponchick: A girl with a chess fetish.
I haven't seen a fanbase or website that doesn't think the Oilers are married to RNH
ReplyDeleteIf a person had to give odds on who goes #1 right now, RNH would be an overwhelming favorite. However, I doubt he's a certainty.
75% chance it's RNH, 20% chance it's Larsson, 5% for Landeskog would be how I'd break it down. Despite the risks involved, I'm starting to accept they're going to roll the dice on Nugent-Hopkins, and I'll be rooting just as hard as anyone for him to turn out as well as that other center that was born in Burnaby once upon a time and drafted in 1988....we could only wish.
HBomb: Don't let them get to you. That's a helluva car, and props to you for going with the bca instead of being a follower.
ReplyDeleteand props to you for going with the bca instead
ReplyDeleteBCA?
Best Car Available?
Excellent.
Some of you seem to have interpreted Lowetide's request to get this back "on track" as a request for more car discussion.
ReplyDeleteI listened to this podcast from EconTalk the other night, and found it interesting.
http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2011/02/george_will_on.html
The man has cranked out some *four thousand* 750 word articles, which he says has become his smallest unit of thought.
Writing is hard work. Lowetide cranks out good stuff day after day. What does he get for it? A Boss Hog family reunion in the comments section. (And, personally, if I never hear another word about McGuire's shine from the manlove town criers, it wouldn't be a moment too soon.)
George Will has a few things to say about baseball at the end (as a former member of the four person Blue Ribbon Panel on baseball economics), but it's not worth it unless you also enjoy punditry and politics.
Sather's old comments remind me of Cretien. Early in his career he was one of the smartest back-benchers around, but by the time he left the PMO he was as dumb as a bag of hammers. Is it the case that great minds sink alike, or do those crafty bankers on bail-out street recognize Sather 2.0 as one of their own? Perhaps he survives there on his ability to promote the grostesque overpay as a cultural norm.
Another sordid decline was The Mess in Vancouver. Hang onto your possessions people, it's all you've got.
Lowetide - a lot of people have 'seen Volvo bad' in the past. They've changed their game the last few years. More and more people are going to start to see them good in the next year or so, just watch.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteOnly making an observation. This isn't the first time you've bragged about materialistic items.
I'd like to see you come with some proof of this - which you obviously can't. Once again, you're just talking out of your ass. Which, considering the source, isn't surprising in the least.
Except you do. Otherwise, you would have ignored my valid criticism.
The "criticism" in question is comes from a source with a checkered track-record at best (and that is being kind, considering 16 bans from Oilfans is just one example). Just because I felt the need to fire back doesn't mean the comments carry a single ounce of merit - quite the opposite. I don't put up with crap from a petulant child trying to run me into the gutter - nothing more, nothing less.
What nobody gives a shit is about a faceless stranger like yourself buying a car.
Grow up a little, will you.
Clearly, the one who needs to grow up is you - because the fact you needed to take a run at me in the first place suggests bitterness aover your own standing in life. 10 years of professional trolling starting to get a bit tiresome?
The discussion was addressed towards those on here whom I care to communicate with (i.e. pretty much everyone other than you). So you can keep your holier-than-thou garbage to yourself, Sundeep. Same shit, different website.
Lowetide: the above reply is a bit off the rails. But it's the end of my comments on the subject - I'm ignoring PJO's preachy nonsense from here on in.
ReplyDeleteBlogger danny said...
ReplyDelete"Just a straight question, hoping for a straight answer, because I really don't know.
Dsf, all rhetoric aside, are you an Oilers fan? Canucks? Both?"
And a straight answer is that, in absence of NHL quality hockey in Edmonton since 2006 and the ongoing mangling of a once proud franchise by Lowe and Tambellini, I have become a "fan" of astute General Managers and their teams.
I have spent a considerable amount of time watching Gillis build the Canucks, Lombardi building the Kings and Burke building the Leafs so, in a sense, I guess you can say I am a "fan" of all of those teams although I'm not emotionally invested in whether or not they win or lose.
Of that bunch of GM's I would have to think the Oilers got the runt of the litter.
In today's Journal, Matheson has Books Laich as a someone who should be a person of interest for the Oilers as a UFA.
ReplyDeleteI myself don't watch the Caps much during the regular season, in particular.
On paper, his boxcars 16-32-48 +14 look like a prototypical 2nd line center albeit on a stacked Caps roster. I'm not sure of his actual batting order, but I'd guess he's further down the depth chart on the Caps?
He's 51.3% on Faceoffs though he only took a pedestrian 524 draws last season.
It's hard to imagine that this 27 y/o, who's 6'2"/200lbs wouldn't help plug a gaping hole in the roster while the Nuge develops.
It also looks like he spends a fair amount of time killing penalties (2.16 TOI/60) with 3.72 GA on/60 (4v5).
What do you guys think about Laich? It doesn't look like there's not much to Laich about him. :p
How much would he cost?
I'm not sure why Matheson thinks the Caps won't re-sign him. Has Laich stated he wants to test the waters?
ReplyDelete@Spoiler, no I haven't heard anything along those lines. However, you would have to expect that Laich would be looking for a substantial raise over his recent 2.067 cap hit salary.
ReplyDeletehe's scored 20+ goals 3 of his last four seasons and had 40++ points 3 of the last four as well. It also looks like he's relatively healthy.
Malhotra signed last year with Nucks for $2.5 per x 3 years and he's never had 20 goals or a 40 point season.
ReplyDeleteI'm terrible with guessing contracts, but you would have to think a fairly big, healthy, veteran C in his prime who can kill penalties, win faceoffs, and contribute some offense would carry some decent market value. Cap hit of 3.5-4, in that range?
ReplyDeleteI have spent a considerable amount of time watching Gillis build the Canucks
Gillis hasn't spent a considerable amount of time building the Canucks.
Some Gillis highlights:
-Offering a broken down Sundin a 2 year $20MM contract
-Giving LOLongo a 12 year contract with a cap hit of 5.3333 at the age of 31 in a market where goalies are making less and less. All that when sitting on one of the best young goalie prospects in the NHL.
-Trading Calder Candidate Grabner and 25th Overall for Ballard. Making Ballard his 2nd highest paid Dman and have Ballard not be able to stay in the top 6. Don't forget the NTC he has too.
The only players making a difference on the Dys who was acquired by Gillis are Ehrhoff, Maholtra and Samuelsson. He's living off of Burke's work.
Weird that all 3 are injured so basically its Burke's team hitting the ice this afternoon except for a couple spare parts like Torres. All key players were acquired by Burke.
Sad thing is that he's still miles better than Lowe and Tambellini combined.
However, you would have to expect that Laich would be looking for a substantial raise over his recent 2.067 cap hit salary.
ReplyDeletehe's scored 20+ goals 3 of his last four seasons and had 40++ points 3 of the last four as well. It also looks like he's relatively healthy.
Caps have 18 players signed with 8.5MM left in cap room. If the cap goes up to 61.5 like its rumoured, they will have 10.5MM in cap space and only 5 players to sign with all of Ovechkin, Backstrom, Semin, Green, Wideman, Poti, Carlson and Neuvirth, already under contract.
Only RFA getting a big raise is Alzner.
They have a pile of cap space.
Thanks WG,
ReplyDeleteClearly, there's no opportunity there unless Laich is looking for a payday.
Yeah, I see no reason for Laich not to re-sign there either.
ReplyDeleteBut then again, now that he's lost the Larsson battle, Matheson wants us to trade up from 18 to take Siemens. He's flailing away.
Also, I thought the cap was going up 5% to 63 million because the NHLPA will never not invoke the 5% clause? That's something that has to change in the next CBA. What league can afford that level of growth indefinitely?
@ Woodguy
ReplyDelete"Some Gillis highlights:
-Offering a broken down Sundin a 2 year $20MM contract
-Giving LOLongo a 12 year contract with a cap hit of 5.3333 at the age of 31 in a market where goalies are making less and less. All that when sitting on one of the best young goalie prospects in the NHL.
-Trading Calder Candidate Grabner and 25th Overall for Ballard. Making Ballard his 2nd highest paid Dman and have Ballard not be able to stay in the top 6. Don't forget the NTC he has too.
The only players making a difference on the Dys who was acquired by Gillis are Ehrhoff, Maholtra and Samuelsson. He's living off of Burke's work.
Weird that all 3 are injured so basically its Burke's team hitting the ice this afternoon except for a couple spare parts like Torres. All key players were acquired by Burke.
Sad thing is that he's still miles better than Lowe and Tambellini combined."
Well, of course you are ignoring a few things.
Like getting the Sedins to take a hometown discount.
Signing the second best two player in the league, Kesler, to a sweetheart deal.
Getting Ehrhoff from San Jose for peanuts.
Acquiring Dan Hamhuis.
Finding the right complimentary pieces for a cup run in Torres, Higgins, Tambellini and Lapierre.
I agree that the Ballard deal and the Luongo's contract look pretty suspect at this point but there isn't one GM in the league who hasn't shanked a shot or two.
What I don't agree with is that Gillis is "living off Burke's work."
On today's roster, these players were acquired by Gillis:
Hamhuis
Ehrhoff
Ballard
Malhotra
Samuelsson
Higgins
Torres
Tambellini
Lapierre
Hodgson
Oreskovich
Doesn't look to me like a GM sitting on his hands.
BTW, the Sporting News has sected him as "Executive of the Year:
http://aol.sportingnews.com/nhl/feed/2011-05/sn-nhl-awards/story/mike-gillis-2011-nhl-awards-executive-of-the-year
Also, I thought the cap was going up 5% to 63 million because the NHLPA will never not invoke the 5% clause? That's something that has to change in the next CBA. What league can afford that level of growth indefinitely?
ReplyDeleteDaly has said that 10/11 league revenues went from 2.7B to 2.9B, which is a 7.4% increase.
I am not sure if the NHLPA will enact the escalator with a "real" 7.4% increase in revenues.
Steve Simmons has the cap going to $63MM next year.
DSF: I mean production-wise and how the Sedins picking up the slack shows their depth.
ReplyDeleteDid I mention how much I love Rod Phillips???
WG: well, burke piggybacked his way to a Cup in Ana off someone else's work so I guess it comes back around:)
I wouldn't expect the Caps to let Laich walk, though.
I'm not really sure if the Oilers should go after him, though.
I'll ask Danny and the juniors:)
Forgot about Hamhuis, that's a good one.
ReplyDeleteYou could argue that the Sedin's took a discount to stay with all the Burke acquired players.
I see as much bad in Gillis as good.
Having 5 of your top 6 forwards, 2 of 4 top D and starting goalie in place when he got the job hasn't given himself enough rope to hang himself with, although he tries (LOLongo/Sundin)
I will concede he has made good moves as well, especially the small one (where the Oilers fail 95% of the time)
Blogger Woodguy said...
ReplyDeleteForgot about Hamhuis, that's a good one.
You could argue that the Sedin's took a discount to stay with all the Burke acquired players.
I see as much bad in Gillis as good.
Having 5 of your top 6 forwards, 2 of 4 top D and starting goalie in place when he got the job hasn't given himself enough rope to hang himself with, although he tries (LOLongo/Sundin)
I will concede he has made good moves as well, especially the small one (where the Oilers fail 95% of the time)
It's interesting to compare Tambellini and Gillis (and Burke) since they've been on the job for pretty much exactly the same amount of time (depending on who you think the Oilers' GM really is).
In that same time frame, the Oilers have added:
Khabibulin (facepalm)
Whitney (who may be chronic)
Foster
Fraser
Vandermeer
Jones
MacIntyre (again)
And signed JFJ to a hometown discount :)
While I understand the teams are in vastly different stages of success, I really don't think you need to go out and acquire that kind of flotsam.
Really, other than being rewarded for failure with high draft picks has Tambellini really done anything of value other than shovelling out the trash and bringing more back in?
Spurs send Birmingham down on a last minute goal and sadly Blackpool falls short as well.
ReplyDeleteTyler Dellow is actually over there now, he and his gf toured a lot of England and Scotland and went to a whole bunch of games, including Blackpool's loss today. He's a big Blackpool fan, what a kick in the nuts.
Love that pic of Messier, what a hoser!
Not sure if this has been referenced already, but speaking of Burke he did an interview with Bill Simmons the other day where he made some interesting claims. One was that he never pays attention to the media and has no idea what the reaction to the Kessel deal has been in Toronto. Another was that ANA gave up a staggering amount for Pronger.
ReplyDeleteIf not for Eberle, that last one would have been more than mildly infuriating.
http://tinyurl.com/3g4janb
Blackpool never really stood much of a chance of staying up. Too bad. The old tourist town could use those 19 weekends of visiting fans to prop up their economy.
ReplyDeleteIf MC wants to cheer for a small market Lancashire team he should choose Wigan, Bolton or Blackburn, all of which at least have shown some sustain.
I don't think he realizes though how much the EPL is structured to preserve the success of the rich teams and to keep the mediocre just that.
Blackburn jumped out to early lead and were never in danger, but the other four teams I mentioned earlier each spent part of today's match thinking that they would be relegated. Blackpool looked safe at half time, but gave up three in the second half to get themselves relegated. Birmingham looked doomed, then safe, then doomed again with four minutes left to play. Crazy stuff.
ReplyDeleteI highly recommand Laich. Always plays tough. And he spends the majority of his time in the offensive zone. N2 Center.
ReplyDeleteBtw: Judith = FPB. Not at my house.
DSF,
ReplyDeleteYou're preaching to the choir.
I think Tambellini's pro aquisitions alone are enough to get him and Morey Gare fired.
I'll give Burke this: The first thing he did after winning a Cup in ANA was acknowledge Murray for the quality players who were there when he took over.
ReplyDeleteAccording to Gillis the Canucks never played in the NHL until he arrived.
All the EPL is, is 3-4 top teams, and the rest. It's a horrible league, that's totally fucked up English soccer.
ReplyDeleteImagine the NHL with on average 3 maybe 4 Canadians per team, with the Rangers, Leafs, Wings and Flyers perpetually playing for the Cup, year in and year out.
From DSF:
ReplyDelete"In that same time frame, the Oilers have added:
Khabibulin (facepalm)
Whitney (who may be chronic)
Foster
Fraser
Vandermeer
Jones
MacIntyre (again)
And signed JFJ to a hometown discount :)"
Did you forget the hometown discount that we got on the 'veteran' Jason Strudwick?
Haha, to borrow a Lowetide(ism): those are some bad hockey cards. :p
With respect to the late Boogard, with his passing, does that mean the end of the era for super heavy? It's not like MacIntyre wasn't enough of a wasted roster spot last year.
As for Laich, I agree that Matheson doesn't seem as plugged in as he was once. Regardless, it would be something to see this team start acquiring actual NHL players rather than flotsam and jetsam.
Sorry, with the exception of Whitney, of course.
ReplyDeleteYou've obviously lost your recollections of Tikkanen, Lineseman [sic], Andersen [sic] and Gretzy.
ReplyDeleteDSF: No I haven't lost my recollections of those guys. Because I mention a dive Ryan Kesler took last game I have to invoke 30-year-old memories of old Oilers?
Honestly, though, that Kesler dive was more of the Bill Barber type. When Anderson got tripped, he went down. Barber found a way to fall UP. And so did Kesler. It really was quite impressive in its scummy way.
The best part was where Jim Hughson wished him godspeed.
Khabibulin was a massive mistake. Other than that, Tambellini has been pretty much bleh, with a lot of pending results. I'm okay with the way he finagled out of the contracts last year, even obtaining Vandy's overpay as it might result in a future underpay. I think he improved what Lowe gave up for Penner in return back. I'm still okay with the Renney signing. And I'm okay with culture change. I'm okay with the added emphasis on the farm system. He took some chances on relatively cheap guys last year and only one panned out. But it certainly isn't a spectacular record, a lot of it is up in the air still, and the Khabby deal is a humdinger of a screwup (altho I do wonder if there was a Katz effect on that one).
ReplyDeleteDon't forget to watch this puppy on NBC.
why has Keith Ballard been a healthy scratch in the playoffs?
ReplyDeleteIs he available?
Should the Oilers try to get him if Vancouver is looking for salary space to re-sign Bieksa and Ehrhoff?
Would he be cheap to acquire (low draft pick) because of his overpay contract?
The chances of the Oilers getting Brooks Laich are about as good as getting Hossa. That being said going after Reasoner or Boyd Gordon for an extra half million should be enough to entice them, and I wonder if having a legit veteran proven defensive center would not take some of the heat off of Horcoff and improve his game somewhat?
ReplyDeleteGo after Reasoner/Gordon and Jan Hejda, that's as good as we'll get this offseason and if the kids develop should get us from 30th to 25 or so.
A second or third tier power forward would help but with Glencross gone I don't see anyone out there other than maybe Eric Cole who I doubt would be thrilled to sign back here.
25th. awesome plan. Dennis endorsed.
ReplyDeleteSo what's the Danny plan?
ReplyDeleteFinish 30th for 5 years straight then magically wind the Cup in year 6 without adding any Actual NHL players?
Ballard is playing for a home.
ReplyDeleteYou add stopgap patches like reasoner when you have a realistic chance of making the playoffs. Not to get to 25th place. Reasoners are available every season, and are not worth sliding from 1st to 5th overall in the draft if you have no chance of making the playoffs whatsoever.
ReplyDeleteIf you can get a guy like Laich under contract for 5 years then yeah, it makes more sense. Reasoner for 25th? Boneheaded.
I thought they let Reasoner walk 5-6 years ago, because he was washed up.
ReplyDeleteJust stick some PCP in Messier and Anderson and they'll be good to go.
A 6th overall pick isn't exactly chopped liver. This year that could get you a Strome, Couturier, Hamilton, Huberdeau, Murphy. It's looking like a deep top 10 next year too.
ReplyDeleteI suspect the Braintrust will want to avoid any appearance of trying for another #1 next season.
I can't understand how the Sharks can't beat the Cafucks down 2 men for half this period.
ReplyDeletePaino: yeah, thats what they're feeling.
Danny
ReplyDeleteFrom Steve Simmons "For all those convinced you build hockey teams through the draft, we offer up the Atlanta Thrashers. Two No. 1 picks overall. Two No. 2 picks overall. One third, one fourth, and not a playoff game won in their history ...
But the oilers have a plan and are on the Pittsburgh model, er, the Chicago model, er the Detroit model or..... much more likely we are just really Bleeping Stupid and don't know how to fill holes!!!!
Craig Rivet UFA $3.500 M $3.500 M
ReplyDeleteScottie Upshall UFA $2.250 M $2.250 M
Jan Hejda UFA $2.000 M $2.000 M
Brad Richards UFA $7.800 M $7.800 M
Jamie Langenbrunner UFA $2.800 M $1.415 M
Jonathan Ericsson UFA $1.250 M $0.900 M
Jimmy Howard UFA $0.800 M $0.717 M
Michal Handzus UFA $4.000 M $4.000 M
Justin Williams UFA $3.500 M $3.500 M
Alexei Ponikarovsky UFA $3.200 M $3.200 M
Marco Sturm UFA $3.500 M $2.277 M
Chuck Kobasew UFA $2.500 M $2.333 M
Andrew Brunette UFA $2.000 M $2.333 M
Antti Miettinen UFA $2.500 M $2.333 M
Steve Sullivan UFA $3.750 M $3.750 M
Joel Ward UFA $1.500 M $1.500 M
Radim Vrbata UFA $3.000 M $3.000 M
Ilya Bryzgalov UFA $4.500 M $4.250 M
Ian White UFA $3.000 M $2.339 M
Niclas Wallin UFA $2.500 M $2.500 M
Tomas Kaberle UFA $4.250 M $4.250 M
Michael Ryder UFA $4.000 M $4.000 M
Tim Connolly UFA $4.500 M $4.500 M
Mike Grier UFA $1.400 M $1.400 M
Marty Reasoner UFA $1.200 M $1.150 M
James Wisniewski UFA $3.250 M $1.817 M
list of UFAS we won't go after
Hal Gill UFA $2.250 M $2.250 M
Brent Sopel UFA $2.000 M $2.333 M
Johan Hedberg UFA $1.000 M $1.500 M
Doug Weight UFA $0.850 M $1.150 M
Alexander Frolov UFA $3.000 M $3.000 M
Vaclav Prospal UFA $1.000 M $2.100 M
Simon Gagne UFA $5.250 M $5.250 M
Sean Bergenheim UFA $0.700 M $0.700 M
Adam Hall UFA $0.600 M $0.600 M
Mike Smith UFA $2.400 M $2.200 M
Scott Hannan UFA $4.500 M $3.194 M
Mike Knuble UFA $2.800 M $2.800 M
Brooks Laich UFA $2.400 M $2.067 M
that's the same list. it split into 2 for some reason.
ReplyDeleteAlso .....absolutely love your excerpt from K Fraser's book. Slats..... mediocre NHL player but was a superb coach when given elite talent!!
ReplyDeleteAn example of one? That's not exactly conclusive. There's ways to screw up any method, and there is still an element of luck. But most of the best teams' best players are their own picks.
ReplyDeleteBut that also doesn't mean we should be planning on tanking another season with the number of top 10 picks that will be on this roster by the end of June--including two #1s. It's time to rely on the scouting staff's ability to find gems a little further down the draft list and get this team further down the path of improvement.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteYou add stopgap patches like reasoner when you have a realistic chance of making the playoffs. Not to get to 25th place. Reasoners are available every season, and are not worth sliding from 1st to 5th overall in the draft if you have no chance of making the playoffs whatsoever.
ReplyDeleteIf you can get a guy like Laich under contract for 5 years then yeah, it makes more sense. Reasoner for 25th? Boneheaded.
Still too vague Danny.
So your team wouldn't go from 30th to 25th (after all, no good players are ever drafted after 2nd overall, right?)
So what exactly is your plan?
You're the GM of the Oilers, what is your 5 year plan comrade?
You're good at throwing stones at what others would do, using little more than dismissive comments and no evidence to back up what you type.
Lay it out there danny. Don't just say everyone is wrong, give an alternative plan. Enlight us poor souls who have it all wrong.
I want to learn.
Healthy Hemsky and progression of the kids should already buy us 5 positions. Having Reasoner or any stop gap would only help more.
ReplyDeleteIf we field a half decent hockey club and make rational decisions, no way we finish 30th again (No Boozer, NO FUCKING STRUDWICK, (Probably the worst NHL player ever that's not a goon), no JFJ etc..
From Steve Simmons "For all those convinced you build hockey teams through the draft, we offer up the Atlanta Thrashers. Two No. 1 picks overall. Two No. 2 picks overall. One third, one fourth, and not a playoff game won in their history ...
ReplyDeleteHe failed to mention it was the first 4 drafts of an expansion team. Stephan, Heatley, Lehtonen, Kovolchuk. Those are pretty good first rounders. They didn't get much help from other rounds and there was no cap in place...and they were not patient.
Worrying about the standings next year is short sighted.
The Oilers are going to take RNH first and he is not going to play in the NHL next year. They are not going to have a #1 C. Most of their "secondary" players (Hamilton, Lander, Pitlick, Teemu, Marincin) are going to need at least 1/2 an AHL season and then will be raw rookies.
On top of this you have the problem of the ever injured Hemsky. Assuming they try and trade him at the deadline, that is going to negatively impact the stadings too.
I'd like the Oilers to find a Dman and a faceoff winning C - both with some grit. They could probably use a toughie winger that can play a little for the 3rd or 4th line. All these guys should be FA's and signed with an eye to flipping them at the deadline for 2nds, 3rds, or 4th rounders.
Then just let the kids play and worry about development.
If things break right, the Oilers are still a lottery team the 2012 draft, but have these guys lined up for Sept 2012:
Hall-RNH-Eberle
MPS-Gagner-Omark
Teemu-Horcoff-Hamilton
Reddox-Lander-Toughie
VDV- House-Pitlick
Cogs?-Jones?
Whitney- Gilbert
Smid-Petry
Peckham- Teubert
Plante-Marincin
Blain-Davidson
Fedun
Bulin - DD - Roy - Bunz
+ the 2011 and 2012 draft crops
At that point the Oilers will have three lottery drafts in the bank, and depth at most positions. They will have the 2012 draft bubbling under as well. They can go out July 1, 2012 and get a #1 goalie, a very good defenceman, and whatever they need up front.
Its one more year of suckage and then this team should be set for a long time.
WG, other than my reply for dennis (which is intended to be a facsimile of random dennis style remarks towards me each thread) you're the one using smug dismissive comments, not me.
ReplyDeleteYour replies are so off point and rhetoric laden that its really a struggle to not be pulled down into a pissing match.
so further with that, like ive stated many times... I don't see the value of finishing 20th-25th this season if its achieved via short-term stopgap improvements. The best I've heard yet, which I give credence to, although limited portions, is that a vet will teach the kids. We have vets that can teach them. 1 extra helps, but I'd imagine the 300+% more likely chance of drafting an impact player top 3 versus 10th-12th outweighs that incentive vastly.
Edmonton's window is 3+ years away. If you can add good pieces right now to fit in that window, you do it. It helps the big picture, because you never know if those piece are going to be available next year or after. For example Laich. Its not about being anti-winning. Its about limiting your moves to long term improvements.
I've stated numerous times that the time to sign guys like Reasoner are next summer, not this summer.
Its not like you need to finish 25th in order to get to 20th the year after. If adding Reasoner gets us to 25th in 2012, and adding Moore gets us to 18th in 2013, chances are adding Reasoner and Moore in 2013 gets us close to 18th. 2012 standings are insignificant in the big picture unless youre a playoff team, or a top 3 pick. You dont make short term moves which doesnt achieve the former and jeopardizes the latter.
I can get on board with signing stopgap guys now if we could move the draft batting order ahead a year by swapping next seasons 1st with someone in this years top 5.
Otherwise, trying to get to 25th via stopgap 1yr contracts is counter-intuitive to a rebuild.
According to some, now we're in danger of being the Atlanta Thrashers.
ReplyDeleteI guess fighting for 8th place, and those 1st round exits make people feel secure.
I think a smart management team starts to bring in the right players this year but that Atlanta example is wildly misleading.
ReplyDeleteSaying that a team shouldn't get too good too quick isn't the same thing as saying all teams that are terrible will eventually be good.
By the by, if we want to suck again I say you ride Khabi as your #1 but still bring in veterans up front to help with the development of the kids -- call it the Cloutier model.
I'm all for the Oilers going out and getting vets on 1 year deals to try and make the playoffs this year.
ReplyDeleteAnd when Horcoff, Hemsky, and Whitney go down with injuries (and they will)
we can deal those stop gaps at the deadline for more picks and tank as usual.
You'd still get a good pick and it would be nice for a guy like Sam Gagner to actually play some meaningful NHL hockey for once.
I'd like to see you come with some proof of this - which you obviously can't. Once again, you're just talking out of your ass. Which, considering the source, isn't surprising in the least.
ReplyDeleteI'm not going to spend any amount of time going through the archives to find it - I do recall on top of my head:
1. Bragging about a condo you bought near Whyte ave for $X
2. Bragging about connections that lead to a job up north.
3. Now bragging about a new car, and forcing a connection to it with the Oilers.
I haven't been the only person to call you out on this online chest pounding behavior either.
The "criticism" in question is comes from a source with a checkered track-record at best (and that is being kind, considering 16 bans from Oilfans is just one example). Just because I felt the need to fire back doesn't mean the comments carry a single ounce of merit - quite the opposite. I don't put up with crap from a petulant child trying to run me into the gutter - nothing more, nothing less.
Yes, I was banned at Oilfans. I can chalk it up to immaturity at a younger age.
That however, is a poor strawman argument with respect to the stunt you pulled yesterday. The criticism is valid, and in this thread has been called out by other posters as lame.
Clearly, the one who needs to grow up is you - because the fact you needed to take a run at me in the first place suggests bitterness aover your own standing in life. 10 years of professional trolling starting to get a bit tiresome?
If anyone is trolling - then it's you. Your online chest pounding had absolutely nothing to do with the Oilers, or Lowetide's topic. Just screamed, ''Hey, look at me everyone"
Don't overrate yourself If anyone else pulled your stunt, I would have called them out as well. Rightfully so.
PunjabiOil said...
ReplyDeleteI'd like to see you come with some proof of this - which you obviously can't. Once again, you're just talking out of your ass. Which, considering the source, isn't surprising in the least.
I'm not going to spend any amount of time going through the archives to find it - I do recall on top of my head:"
So, what you're saying is you're a Mercedes man?
PunjabiOil,
ReplyDeleteGive it rest man. Your inability to let go speaks to the fact you may not have as much maturity as you think you do.
Or to paraphrase the great Steve Smith, perhaps maturity doesn't mean what you think it does.
Walk away, come back in a few days and you can join in as I argue with Woodguy and Other John on the optimal speed of a rebuild (for the 40th time). I'll be sure not to mention my rusty 2000 Dodge Caravan :-)
PJO:
ReplyDeleteSo I'm the first person to purchase real-estate and be happy about my timing of doing so or get a job thanks to establishing business connections? Apparently you haven't spent much time in the real world if that's the case, because you'd be daft to try and argue that. I'd also think that without context, you are reaching for straws, because I seem to remember "careers" and "real estate" both being topics of discussion here at one point or another. If anyone else reading this recalls me bragging about these topics or anything else, please say so - because, if not, I'm calling massive bullshit on that accusation.
I also find it funny that you'd call me out for making conversation on an off-topic subject without any sort of confrontational undertones, yet calling Tyler Seguin and Cam Fowler "phudus" during the 2010 draft debate is somehow acceptable because it's hockey related? Talk about a lack of self-awareness, stemming from what is nothing short of absolute arrogance.
Leopards don't change their spots - you're as big a joke as you ever were, Sundeep. Oh, and by the way, 16 bans from one website isn't immaturity - it's unhealthy obsession. Throw in bans from EsksFans and HF and a well-known reputation as a pot-stirring sideshow on the old Sportsnet.ca forums, and you have the nerve to call me (or anyone else, for that matter) a troll? Generally I don't waste calories remembering "who's who" on these sorts of websites, but your infamous reputation for stupidity is hard to ignore.
(Once again, apologies to Lowetide for this going way off-topic, but I'm not about to take crap from the party in question).
Ducey:
ReplyDeleteYou speak the truth. Makes me feel bad for posting my last reply here, but somehow I don't feel like putting up with PJO's garbage.
And if standing up for oneself when under attack from the peanut gallery is out-of-line, well then, out-of-line I am.
I'll be sure not to mention my rusty 2000 Dodge Caravan
ReplyDeleteI will NEVER knock mini-vans. Learned to drive in one (which, to this day, has made parallel parking damn easy). Also came very in-handy once my group of friends turned 18 and we needed to get to-and-from Whyte Avenue from St. Albert on the weekends (be it me driving as DD or one of my parents doing us a "solid" and giving us a lift down there so we could blow money we didn't really have to blow at Squire's).
factio: Part of a faction.
HBomb said...
ReplyDeleteDucey:
You speak the truth. Makes me feel bad for posting my last reply here, but somehow I don't feel like putting up with PJO's garbage.
And if standing up for oneself when under attack from the peanut gallery is out-of-line, well then, out-of-line I am.
Hbomb.
Enjoying your Vulva is no different that LT enjoying a baseball game on a sunny day or Pat enjoying some jiggy jiggy with the girl from Rawlin's Cross.
Some folks just can't abide happiness in others, others are happy for you.
Your replies are so off point and rhetoric laden that its really a struggle to not be pulled down into a pissing match.
ReplyDeleteOff point and rhetoric laden?
I usually try to support my arguments with some semblance of information to back up my claims.
I try not to type opinions whose only justification is "cause I think so"
So you are on the 3 year plan?
That's not so different from 2.
From your rhetoric it sounded like you wanted lottery picks for the next 3 years.
If v3.0 add one Dman, 10,83,14,4,91,89 stay healthy and 40 gets 60 starts they might finish above 25th anyway.
So, what you're saying is you're a Mercedes man?
ReplyDeleteDSF, for the win.
ReplyDeleteEnjoying your Vulva is no different that LT enjoying a baseball game on a sunny day or Pat enjoying some jiggy jiggy with the girl from Rawlin's Cross.
Some folks just can't abide happiness in others, others are happy for you.
You know what's sweet? Driving on a nice day to a ballgame and enjoying some jiggy jiggy afterwards. Throw in a cold beer, and that's a perfect spring day in a nutshell.
So I'm the first person to purchase real-estate and be happy about my timing of doing so or get a job thanks to establishing business connections? Apparently you haven't spent much time in the real world if that's the case, because you'd be daft to try and argue that. I'd also think that without context, you are reaching for straws, because I seem to remember "careers" and "real estate" both being topics of discussion here at one point or another. If anyone else reading this recalls me bragging about these topics or anything else, please say so - because, if not, I'm calling massive bullshit on that accusation.
ReplyDeleteNo, you're not the first person, but when you begin to make it a trend about bragging about these things in a virtual world (I suspect it's insecurity), eventually someone is going to call you out on it.
Oh, and I missed one - you also bragged about your jersey collections.
I also find it funny that you'd call me out for making conversation on an off-topic subject without any sort of confrontational undertones, yet calling Tyler Seguin and Cam Fowler "phudus" during the 2010 draft debate is somehow acceptable because it's hockey related? Talk about a lack of self-awareness, stemming from what is nothing short of absolute arrogance.
Phudu was a joke, and more of a symbolic gesture of my strong desire to select Hall.
Completely absurd counter by you.
Generally I don't waste calories remembering "who's who" on these sorts of websites, but your infamous reputation for stupidity is hard to ignore
Your essay length rants and replies are suggestive that you DO care about my valid criticism.
Judith's point in this thread was apt: If you just would have said ''Got a Volvo, feels nice, feels good'' probably would have passed better. But forcing it to become related/justifying was awkward.
HBomb said...
ReplyDelete"Enjoying your Vulva is no different that LT enjoying a baseball game on a sunny day or Pat enjoying some jiggy jiggy with the girl from Rawlin's Cross.
Some folks just can't abide happiness in others, others are happy for you.
You know what's sweet? Driving on a nice day to a ballgame and enjoying some jiggy jiggy afterwards. Throw in a cold beer, and that's a perfect spring day in a nutshell."
Works for me.
Good on ya.
Could we discuss Horcoff's contract though?
Always good for a laugh.
DSF: How about the relative merits of Tom Gilbert? How much we should pay for Ryan Jones? RNH vs. Larsson?
ReplyDeleteThere's a few dead-horses laying around here. Pick one and fire away.
HBomb said...
ReplyDeleteDSF: How about the relative merits of Tom Gilbert? How much we should pay for Ryan Jones? RNH vs. Larsson?
There's a few dead-horses laying around here. Pick one and fire away.
Well, Tom Gilbert has little merit...kind of like taking a Volvo to a drag meet.
You can find Ryan Jones on the waiver wire for peanuts...kind of like a Volvo on Craig's list.
And, of course, Larsson IS a Volvo. RNH may be a Corvette but I have a sinking feeling he's an Explorer.
In which case you pick the Honda. (Huberdeau)
Or to paraphrase the great Steve Smith, perhaps maturity doesn't mean what you think it does.
ReplyDeleteI do not think that "great" means what you think that it means.
DSF: I'm going to guess you aren't a Volvo man either.
ReplyDeleteBut are you actually a Honda man with regards to Huberdeau?
If RNH's lack of even-strength scoring is a concern, shouldn't Huberdeau playing on a stacked team also be a consideration?
MacGregor and his guys are going to earn their paycheques over the next few weeks - this is WAY harder than last year's draft.
And yes, I'd take the Volvo (Larsson) in this case too.
Hbomb: It would only be a concern if someone else was leading the charge. Clearly he's the driver.
ReplyDeleteHBomb said...
ReplyDeleteDSF: I'm going to guess you aren't a Volvo man either.
But are you actually a Honda man with regards to Huberdeau?
If RNH's lack of even-strength scoring is a concern, shouldn't Huberdeau playing on a stacked team also be a consideration?
MacGregor and his guys are going to earn their paycheques over the next few weeks - this is WAY harder than last year's draft.
And yes, I'd take the Volvo (Larsson) in this case too.
Hall played on a stacked team.
So did Gagner.
Does it matter?
The real question is "who is driving the bus"
Obviously Hall was and Gagner wasn't.
Pick the bus driver.
It's Huberdeau.
fpb: I haven't watched nearly as much of Saint John as I would have liked to, so I'll take your word for it.
ReplyDeleteFrom what I have seen, he's certainly part of the "big eight" that seems to have developed:
C: RNH, Couturier, Huberdeau, Strome
W: Landeskog
D: Larsson, Hamilton, Murphy
Where he goes might depend if there's a run on centers early or not. I couldn't see him going higher than 3rd, but he won't get past Columbus at 8th.
The only things I'd wager money on in the top eight at this point are as follows:
- I think RNH is the Oilers guy at 1OV (not saying it's right or wrong, and I can see the case for picking him - but all the arrows point to it)
- Landeskog to Colorado at #2. They've got two really good centers in Duchene and Stastny, and a #1D in the making in E. Johnson...who they coincidentally traded their young power-forward to get.
Beyond that? I've got no clue what's going to happen.
What FBV said.
ReplyDeleteHbomb: I don't think Colorado has a clue of what exactly they're doing so i'l go with Landeskog too.
ReplyDeleteThey got absolutely screwed in that trade and probably would be better off with what they had.
Stewart + Shattenkirk + Larsson probably beats E.J + Landeskog.
I'd still drop down for Couturier.
fpb: I love the idea of trading back for Couturier. I still don't understand why he dropped.
ReplyDeleteIt all depends on what the extra asset one can pick up to drop from 1-4 is. I don't see that much separating the top four (Larsson, Landeskog, Couturier, RNH - in no particular order, YMMV) - so if a team could pick up another 1st rounder (example: Colorado's 11th overall if they had their sights on a certain player) to drop down 1-3 spots, they'd have to at least consider it, and if they could somehow engineer ending up having two of the top eight picks, it would be a slam dunk.
All this, however, seems unlikely. All signs point to Nugent-Hopkins. I really think we need to start discussing who might be available at 19th overall more, because that is going to be the great mystery. I hope they don't get locked in on drafting a D with the 19th just because they take RNH though - because if McNeill falls to 19 and you can walk away with two top notch center prospects from day one, well...you have to do that, no?
Hbomb: Well we're so stacked on forwards. I think it's better to get a forward with 80+ points if you can (Like Mcneill or Bartschi) but I don't think they'l do it.
ReplyDeleteI think the wisest thing to do would be parting with one of the wonder kids to get a strong defense man.
Probably Omark.
fpb: At every spot, "best player available". Don't draft for need unless you've got a virtual tie between two players playing two different positions.
ReplyDeleteBy the time that these kids are going to be ready to actually contribute (3-4 years in most cases) - the needs of the big club will very likely have shifted. And if you end up with an abundance at one position? This is where the concept of "trading" comes into play.
As such, if our first four picks ended up going (hypothetically) RNH-McNeill-Victor Rask-Michael St. Croix....I'd be the last guy complaining about it.
PJO:
ReplyDeleteYou take shots at me for "essay-length rants"...which are in response to unsolicited essay-length rants, written by you, which are nothing more than childish personal attacks. The irony in your holier-than-thou stance on this is rather hilarious.
Obsession is unhealthy - seek professional help.
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ReplyDeletePJO:
ReplyDeleteYou take shots at me for "essay-length rants"...which are in response to unsolicited essay-length rants, written by you, which are nothing more than childish personal attacks. The irony in your holier-than-thou stance on this is rather hilarious.
That's not true at all. I merely called out your chest-pounding, childish behavior.
I don't think you know what irony means.
Obsession is unhealthy - seek professional help.
I love your Patrick LaForge esque deflections to take away some heat off with respect to the valid criticisma.
As mentioned, it's a trend observed. The civil person doesn't brag about such expenditures to friends, let alone anonymous faceless strangers on an online messageboard.
Perhaps you should get some help with respect to the insecurity demons that are evidently haunting you.
I usually try to support my arguments with some semblance of information to back up my claims.
ReplyDeleteYeah, you do, as do I. But you also seem to over generalize and dismiss other peoples opinions, or simply not even read them before you attack them.
I try not to type opinions whose only justification is "cause I think so"
If you care to justify this statement I'm all ears. I see logic behind my opinion. In fact I see more logic behind my opinion than I see in yours. How is your approach more justified? Am I missing something in my opinion which is obvious to you? The crux of our differences is that you see value in using plugs to compete next season, I think the draft pick is more valuable unless it's longer term solutions.
So your comment above is basically the same bullshit you normally spew against people who disagree with you. Amiright.
I've been very clear and civil discussing this logic with you and Dennis. Dennis has at least understood me, and been civil, with the trademark Dennis one-liners sprinkled in for good measure.
From your rhetoric it sounded like you wanted lottery picks for the next 3 years.
No, woodguy, it didn't sound like that. You were putting words in my mouth to detract from my opinion. I was very clear on what and why. Numerous times.
I feel an intense personal hostility towards several of you!
ReplyDeleteI try not to type opinions whose only justification is "cause I think so"
ReplyDeleteIf you care to justify this statement I'm all ears. I see logic behind my opinion. In fact I see more logic behind my opinion than I see in yours. How is your approach more justified? Am I missing something in my opinion which is obvious to you? The crux of our differences is that you see value in using plugs to compete next season, I think the draft pick is more valuable unless it's longer term solutions.
Danny,
I was talking about how I go about an argument and defending myself.
Why I wrote the bolded part above, I was referencing myself, not you.
You took it as a slight against you. Not sure why.
Re-read what I wrote, but this time do it in a voice of dry lecturer instead of someone screaming at you. It makes a difference.
Nothing I wrote in the last post was designed to be a slight against you, but was defending myself.
Fair enough.
ReplyDeleteThe quotation marks combined with the dismissive tone of your previous replies, I assumed the other interprestation.
While all this diaper-rash has been going on, the Canucks, *spits* .....
ReplyDelete"Phudu" was first referenced in an ancient temple engraving found in Borneo. Roughly translated, it actully means 'those fuckers playing ice hockey at the mouth of the Fraser'
Coincidence?
Alice,
ReplyDeleteThe fucking Dys (*spits*) winning has to be a huge contributing reason for the tone downgrade around here.
I'd rather have gout than watch those pricks win.
I feel an intense personal hostility towards several of you!
ReplyDeleteI hope so.
More SS is better than less SS.
I cannot wait until LT gets the website up. Man, this thread got tarded up.
ReplyDelete@LT:
I am all for a paypal donation button on the new website. Especially if you use your new found power to IP ban anyone who starts waving their E-penis around.
The only - and I mean Only - comfort I could find in the abject catastrophe that would be a Canucks win, well at least Temujin would be happy.
ReplyDeleteI always found her to be very respectful when she posted here.
Everytime someone says SS I can't help but imagine some guy in his basement with a Nazi suit.
ReplyDelete@Matt, is LT building a new site? That's great news if so. I hadn't heard yet that the plan was definitive.
ReplyDeleteIf not, I'd be happy to build him a WordPress site and kick in free hosting. I've built a ton of websites. LT if you're interested, just send me an email at lowonoil[@]ymail.com
I thought LT hired a moderator to stop EXACTLY what is happening in this thread?
ReplyDeleteI (and most others) come here to read about hockey, not all the garbage that has happened in the last 30% of the thread.
Also one quick point, apologizing for doing something in the same thread as the reply does not exonerate your actions. It is like prefacing a inappropriate statement by saying "Not to be rude, but...".
Don't proclaim you are taking the moral high ground to then only sink back down to an even lower level.
Can we please go back to talking about why RNH's PP points are going to turn him into a bust at the NHL level please?
Adam: Yeah but then I get accused of having Couturier pictures all over my walls.
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ReplyDeleteGod's honest truth. I was driving home yesterday and came up behind a pretty snazzy looking car parked at a 4 way stop. It was obviously stalled with the hood up and the driver outside the car talking on his cell. As I got closer, it became apparent the car was a newer volvo. Not sure of the model as it's not a car that's high on my radar screen but it had those nifty assymetrical rounded triangle-ish tail lights.
ReplyDeleteI personally have no opinion on the quality of the volvo. Also don't see anything wrong with someone being proud of a new car and wanting to share. Just thought it funny that I came across a stalled volvo of all things after reading this thread yesterday.
As an aside, how can you not like a car that's a couple vowels removed from vulva?
Apparently celebrating my son's 5th with 12 kids under 7 and 8 adults under the influence made me miss out on another interpersonal brawl yesterday. Too bad. (I dare anyone to call me out for bragging on my kid)
ReplyDeleteJust one thing. Anyone who thinks a team goes from 30th to 10th or better in one season, regardless of the number of #1s on the team has not paid attention to how this league has worked the past 20 years. Add some stuff move to 20th next year and higher the year after. Its not like the other teams are going to lay down and give the Oilers 40 more points because they have Hall, Eberle, MPS and RNH on their team. This playoff season has proven the teams with the best bottom 9 win more than the others.
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ReplyDelete30th to 10th? Sounds like a HFboards plan. Probably involves Jagr.
ReplyDeleteMaybe we can switch to the Tampa Bay model (so hot right now). They went from 29th, to 25th, to 8th and Conference Finals this year!
ReplyDeleteDidn't the Oilers make the playoffs their very first season in the NHL?
ReplyDelete...Or maybe the Carolina method. 30th, 23rd, 4th and the Cup!
ReplyDeleteor maybe the PIT model:
ReplyDelete1st Fleury
2nd Malkin
1st Crosby
2nd Staal
They have had a little more sustain than CAR
Hey if Phily can rebound in one year, surely the Oilers can do it. Right? Right?
ReplyDeleteAfter Matheson writes that he thinks the Oilers should trade up from 18 to secure Duncan Siemens, Luedeke of Bruins 2010 Draft Watch ranks Siemens 36th! out of all eligible prospects he has viewed this season. From what he has seen and heard, there is no chance for Siemens to be a top pairing defender, calling his stats inflated and his physical presence weaker than McIlrath's or Teubert's.
ReplyDeleteNow I suspect Matheson is merely begging for a defenceman as he has been beating the Larsson drum for months to no avail, but trading up to get a Siemens is just plain wrong.
Spoiler: Mcylrath is shit and did not progress.
ReplyDeleteIf he plays defense we shouldn't care if he's physical or not.
Just throwing this out there to see what everyone says; and I won't even throw in a one-liner because I know it wounds Daniel;)
ReplyDelete1. at what point do you say "enough's enough" when it comes to running with all youth and taking big losses? Sure, some of our kids up front are high-end and DD's flashed enough to inspire some confidence as well. But the backline's a mess so there's only so much we'll improve in-house this year so, once again, more beatings.
2. so, what's the value of adding a vet or three that can help us be more competitive and allow the kids to see all the little things that need to be done? I'm a numbers guy these are things I normally wouldn't even bother to try to quantify but I think there's a real need for vets,
Agreed, Dennis.
ReplyDeleteI think playing with vets is a huge key to learning. It removes some of the mistakes and randomness on the ice, enabling a quicker learning curve. It provides an education by example. Good habits.
I think The Braintrust wants this to a degree considering their culture change remarks, but they seem to have great difficulty acquiring those vets out there that have those habits and are willing to play here.
I also think that at some point, to maintain confidence and motivation a little success is required. Vets would sure effin help.
And they can still be traded at the deadline to a playoff team looking to deal a 3rd for depth.
I can see Danny's point that they may want to suck for another top 3 player, but if that's the case, then why didn't they send Hall back to Junior this past season? And at what point do we say enough's enough? Why not suck the year after too?
What if the kids take a step forward next season? Wouldn't we want the kind of team in place that could take advantage of those fruits?