Hall's ability to react quickly and the fact that he drives to the net so often adds up to an enormous number of good scoring chances. As he matures, more of those chances are going to cash.
Taylor Hall 2010 is the tip of the iceberg. He's an impact player of the future, a pure offensive gamebreaker.
Hurry, tomorrow.
TAYLOR HALL 10-11
- 5x5 points per 60: 1.78 (4th among regular forwards)
- 5x4 points per 60: 3.27 (8th among regular forwards)
- Qual Comp: 2nd toughest among regular forwards
- Qual Team: 5th best teammates among regular forwards
- Corsi Rel: 10.3 (best among regular forwards)
- Zone Start: 52.0% (4th easiest among regular forwards)
- Zone Finish: 51.2% (7th best among regular forwards)
- Shots on goal/percentage: 186/11.8% (4th among F's>100 shots)
- Boxcars: 65gp, 22-20-42 (led the team in goals as a rookie)
- Plus Minus: -9 on a team that was -52.
- What do these numbers tell us? Hall had an outstanding rookie season playing on the front lines. His relCorsi led the team and he managed to finish first among Oilers in goals scored despite missing 17 games at the end of the season. He had a rookie season similar to Steven Stamkos as a rookie (Stamkos went 79gp, 23-23-46 with a 1.78/5x560) and that's some pretty nice company.
- Hall had better linemates than Stamkos. Really? My memory isn't what it used to be, but the Lightning had some nice veterans during Stamkos' rookie season. Even if he was playing with Malone or Recchi, there's a lot of pop on that team.
- How Could these numbers be better? Two areas: health and the powerplay. I don't think we should get our shorts in a knot over either item, but a full 82 game season would be a terrific help for next season. Knowing the Oilers, they'll trade for Dorsett this summer. So if Hall can avoid fighting the rest of the league all should be fine. The powerplay is a different item, as even a wunderkind like Hall can't undo what's been done re: Oilers with a man advantage. I think the team should try blindfolds next season, or possibly two pucks on the ice at the same time. Kidding aside, Hall's presence on the PP should increase this season and with his skills it's only a matter of time before the offense arrives with the man advantage.
- They need to get him an enforcer. No, they don't. It would be nice if the Oilers could acquire actual players who have size and some crust (I hate using the word, but gumption seems to be out of time) but giving a denver boot to a skill line doesn't work (thanks to Pat Quinn for the year long experiment that proved this yet again).
- Hartikainen should play with him? No, Hartikainen should earn his way up the roster. Hall's skills are so good this isn't experiment time and there's no Wayne Cashman warming up on the sidelines. Last season's Horcoff-Hall-Eberle line worked well and that's probably how things will start in the fall.
- Hall played a little center. What happened to that? I don't know, but it sounded like a plan. Renney said the team would re-visit it but then everyone got hurt or headed for the coast so maybe it comes back. One thing I hope: IF the Oilers like Landeskog better than RNH or Larsson then maybe they'll consider the move and take BPA. I don't know that Landeskog is the best player available but drafting for position need makes no sense.
- Is Hall a better offensive prospect than Eberle? Yes.
- Why? Give me your reasons (hat tip to LMHF#1). Well, Hall had better numbers in junior at the same age and after Hall was injured Eberle's level of play went down a little. Mostly, I put a lot of importance on age, or more accurately what players accomplish at a young age. Robin Yount could barely get above the Mendoza line as a rookie, but he did it in diapers. Taylor Hall was on his way to a 25+ goal season with the Sisters of Mercy hockey team as a teenager and he was the straw that stirred the drink many nights. A lot of offense comes after he's driven to the net and Hall is the most dynamic offensive player this side of Ales Hemsky. As a teenager.
- Should we be worried about injuries? I don't think so. Hall's injury came as a direct result of frustration on his part. What are you going to do? Youth is wasted on all the wrong people and he should have known better, but would you rather have a shrinking violet? Hall doesn't like being pushed around. He's probably going to work like a bugger this summer and come back and go Angelo Siciliano on everyone's ass.
- What is he good at? Pretty much anything he puts his mind to. Hall's all reflex with a trigger, and the wide variety of ways he scored this season is perhaps the most heartening thing of all. Breakaways, driving to the net, converting sweet passes in the slot, a few off the butt. He can score a lot of ways, and I haven't even mentioned his shot which O by the way is going to take it's toll on the NW division's collective save percentage too.
- What isn't he good at? Well we don't know that he's bad at it, but the play away from the puck will need work. Hall did put forth effort and seemed to be learning more as the season went on, but there are very few rookies who come in with a well rounded defensive game. And none I recall are teenagers. He could also be a little more selfish in the scoring zone, but this is being really picky.
- What are his top end skills? Speed, shot, effort, reflex, genetics, rubbery quality, desire, balance, passing, attitude, team player. What did I miss?
- Who would you trade him for? No one. Seriously. You know, I'm an old guy and maybe have no right to enjoy another glorious career from start to finish after all those young Oilers from the 80s, but this kid was drafted by our town, said all the right things and then did all the right things. Taylor Hall is an Edmonton Oiler and he's just getting started. I wouldn't trade it. Seriously. I'm just going to enjoy it and tell everyone under 30 they should too because God knows Taylor Hall's don't come along every year.
- What can he be? Don't know. I don't think we've seen enough of him yet; a season gives you all kinds of clues but maybe he can play center and maybe he will score 20 on the PP and maybe he's going to be able to protect himself. I predict Taylor Hall will never play defense or goal. After that, his career is tracking in a somewhat similar fashion as Stamkos. But we need to see more.
Prediction for 2010-11: 74gp, 20-20-40 (.541)
Actual 2010: 65gp, 22-20-42 (.646)
We're just getting started
Who will be the better player in the NHL?
ReplyDeleteTaylor Hall
Matt Duchene
John Tavares
Wow. lt you are prolific tonight. Or you posting another blog because the thread got bogged down in the last one. I too had the pleasure of cheering for the Oil from day one. My uncle had season tickets from day one and he took my brother to the Canadien's series not me.
ReplyDeleteLots of people give k-lowe a bad time. If hemsky is your best player, you are not winning the cup. If he is your third or forth best player then you are on track. ie Hossa in Chicago.
Thank goodness the year is over. Better times next few years.
DSF: You've already made that point and we spent two pages talking about context.
ReplyDeleteWhich includes quality of teammates and team. If you want to post on that and debate Skinner versus Hall versus Eberle versus Omark then let's do it.
But since we're starting a new page, let's also have a new discussion.
Malcolm: That's an interesting question. I actually think that Taylor Hall might be the best prospect since Sidney Crosby. Notice I said prospect so just bear with me.
ReplyDeleteWhat I mean is that if you take his stats and scouting reports from his draft year, he matches up quite favourably with any of the #1 picks post-2005.
I think Hall definitely would have gone first overall in 2006 over Erik Johnson or Jordan Staal. Easily over Patrick Kane in 2007. 2008 is close between him and Stamkos, but I think there's a very real chance he goes first in that year as well. Ditto with 2009, although that draft also would have been a tough call between him, Tavares, Duchene and Hedman. Hall easily goes first overall this year.
I don't want to get crazy with the kid, but this was just a thought I had while comparing this years draft class with previous years.
jagre: if Jaromir Jargh had been born in Quebec
Yeah, I think Stamkos and Hall are probably neck and neck after one year. Now, Stamkos kicked the daylights out of year two, so let's wait and see.
ReplyDeleteWithout St. Louis centering him, I think Hall has trouble keeping pace with Stamkos.
ReplyDeleteI'd say Stamkos had more potential coming out of junior and Stamkos was the same. So the list of best forward prospects out of junior in recent years probably goes:
ReplyDeleteCrosby, Stamkos, Hall, Tavares, etc.
The pressing question is how big is the gap between Stamkos and Hall? Let's hope it's very small, but that's asking a lot. We'll see.
I love Hall's skating. It's sublime. Even if the elite offense never comes, he's awesome to watch.
I mean Tavares was the same.
ReplyDelete@LT
ReplyDeleteIf playing on a poor team with players (Eberle and Horcoff for the most part) who've you've lauded in the past, is the context you're looking for, I guess you have a point.
Skinner spent most of his time playing with Ruutu and Larose and, really, Carolina is not much of a hockey team. (just marginally better than the Leafs)
Somehow, Skinner managed, despite significantly less ice time, to nail it.
Weaker opposition? Sure.
Hall had the 4th toughest Qual Comp among forwards and Skinner had the 10th.
But Hall had the second best Qual Team the Oilers had to offer (for regular forwards) and Skinner had 8th best.
I guess you can argue Ruutu and Larose are better hockey players than Horcoff and Eberle but comparing Hall to other Oiler players is pissing into the wind.
For 65 games, Taylor Hall made watching the Oilers a little less painful. Yes, Eberle, Omark, Paajarvi and some of the other kids were there, but this kid is the straw that stirs the drink.
ReplyDeleteFor all of our sakes, management needs to put a team around this guy that we can actually be proud of.
Stamkos has St. Louis, maybe Hemsky can fill that role. If not, get on with it sooner rather than later.
arili: Ah really think they need to acquire more talent.
DSF: Well that's certainly a point. Did he rip it up against the SE division?
ReplyDeleteThat would be a factor too, right?
LT: Tanguay sucked in the SE, then he rocked in the NW.
ReplyDeleteNW was weaker this year than SE.
SE isn't that old dog this year again.
@ fpb
ReplyDeletethat is still to be contested(waiting on JW to do the analysis again).
Lets see if he does it again this season
tanguay had an exceptionally bad year.
ReplyDeleteand skinner has had an exceptionally good season. I know sometimes its fun randomly throwing names out there, but we have seen many people have spikes and exceeding expectations.
didnt samsonov have a crazy rookie season right after his draft?
What is DSF proposing that Skinner is better than Hall, that we should have picked him? did he say that before they were drafted? Or that we shouldnt be happy with the season Hall has had.
Stamkos' most common line mates 5v5 during his rookie year:
ReplyDelete15.3% EV 12 MALONE,RYAN - 26 ST. LOUIS,MARTIN - 91 STAMKOS,STEVEN
6.04% EV 18 HALL,ADAM - 12 MALONE,RYAN - 91 STAMKOS,STEVEN
3.96% EV 12 MALONE,RYAN - 91 STAMKOS,STEVEN - 17 VRBATA,RADIM
3.88% EV 20 PROSPAL,VACLAV - 91 STAMKOS,STEVEN - 17 VRBATA,RADIM
3.15% EV 20 PROSPAL,VACLAV - 26 ST. LOUIS,MARTIN - 91 STAMKOS,STEVEN
3.05% EV 18 HALL,ADAM - 36 JOKINEN,JUSSI - 91 STAMKOS,STEVEN
2.89% EV 20 PROSPAL,VACLAV - 10 ROBERTS,GARY - 91 STAMKOS,STEVEN
2.47% EV 9 DOWNIE,STEVE - 10 ROBERTS,GARY - 91 STAMKOS,STEVEN
2.47% EV 24 PETTINGER,MATT - 26 ST. LOUIS,MARTIN - 91 STAMKOS,STEVEN
1.93% EV 20 PROSPAL,VACLAV - 8 RECCHI,MARK - 91 STAMKOS,STEVEN
1.77% EV 9 DOWNIE,STEVE - 36 JOKINEN,JUSSI - 91 STAMKOS,STEVEN
1.61% EV 8 RECCHI,MARK - 26 ST. LOUIS,MARTIN - 91 STAMKOS,STEVEN
1.59% EV 36 JOKINEN,JUSSI - 20 PROSPAL,VACLAV - 91 STAMKOS,STEVEN
Hall's more common linemates 5v5:
21.4% EV 14 EBERLE,JORDAN - 4 HALL,TAYLOR - 10 HORCOFF,SHAWN
17.02% EV 13 COGLIANO,ANDREW - 14 EBERLE,JORDAN - 4 HALL,TAYLOR
15.46% EV 14 EBERLE,JORDAN - 89 GAGNER,SAM - 4 HALL,TAYLOR
5.92% EV 4 HALL,TAYLOR - 83 HEMSKY,ALES - 27 PENNER,DUSTIN
5.52% EV 4 HALL,TAYLOR - 10 HORCOFF,SHAWN - 27 PENNER,DUSTIN
5.52% EV 89 GAGNER,SAM - 4 HALL,TAYLOR - 83 HEMSKY,ALES
5.36% EV 4 HALL,TAYLOR - 83 HEMSKY,ALES - 10 HORCOFF,SHAWN
4.07% EV 67 BRULE,GILBERT - 13 COGLIANO,ANDREW - 4 HALL,TAYLOR
2.07% EV 89 GAGNER,SAM - 4 HALL,TAYLOR - 27 PENNER,DUSTIN
1.51% EV 13 COGLIANO,ANDREW - 4 HALL,TAYLOR - 27 PENNER,DUSTIN
Stamkos had the advantage I think, but its not a large one.
Stamkos' most common 5v5 line mates in his 2nd year:
28.89% EV 9 DOWNIE,STEVE - 26 ST. LOUIS,MARTIN - 91 STAMKOS,STEVEN
27.6% EV 12 MALONE,RYAN - 26 ST. LOUIS,MARTIN - 91 STAMKOS,STEVEN
3.8% EV 26 ST. LOUIS,MARTIN - 91 STAMKOS,STEVEN
3.66% EV 26 ST. LOUIS,MARTIN - 91 STAMKOS,STEVEN - 13 TANGUAY,ALEX
3.6% EV 9 DOWNIE,STEVE - 12 MALONE,RYAN - 91 STAMKOS,STEVEN
3.48% EV 9 DOWNIE,STEVE - 91 STAMKOS,STEVEN - 13 TANGUAY,ALEX
3.19% EV 27 BOCHENSKI,BRANDON - 26 ST. LOUIS,MARTIN - 91 STAMKOS,STEVEN
2.91% EV 26 ST. LOUIS,MARTIN - 91 STAMKOS,STEVEN - 19 VEILLEUX,STEPHANE
2.12% EV 4 LECAVALIER,VINCENT - 26 ST. LOUIS,MARTIN - 91 STAMKOS,STEVEN
Lowetide said...
ReplyDeleteDSF: Well that's certainly a point. Did he rip it up against the SE division?
That would be a factor too, right?
No it wouldn't.
The NW is the weakest division in hockey...by a country mile.
But, remember, Hall doesn't get to play against the Oilers.
ReplyDeleteAnd who gives a flying fuck what Skinner did this season?
As has been pointed out,
Cogliano burnt it up for a couple of years too.
I like Skinner a lot.
ReplyDeleteI like Hall even more.
Brought you out of his seat every time he hit the ice.
Especially when he, 14 and 10 played together, you didn't dare take your eyes off the ice.
He turns on the jets and stretches the D on the first pass as good as any in the game, and he's only 18.
That's why 14 did well when playing with 4. 4 stretched the D out like day old pizza dough and there was a ton of little pockets for 14 to do his thing.
4 will be a top 20 NHL talent for a very long time, and maybe even a top 10 talent.
He was only 18.
ReplyDeleteBlogger Mr DeBakey said...
ReplyDeleteBut, remember, Hall doesn't get to play against the Oilers.
And who gives a flying fuck what Skinner did this season?
As has been pointed out,
Cogliano burnt it up for a couple of years too.
So that diminshes what Hall accomplished too? Because Cogliano burnt it up?
Or maybe, since this is a "math" site, you look at the "math".
Skinner was absolutely dominant and he's only 18...7 months younger than Hall.
DSF: Carolina might not be much better than Toronto, but both teams were well better than the Oilers.
ReplyDeleteCarolina scored 236 goals, Oilers 193. At even strength it's Carolina 174, Edmonton 141.
Carolina was -3, Oilers -76. I think there must be some room for an argument that Skinner was playing for a slightly more talented offensive team?
Carolina was -3, Oilers -76. I think there must be some room for an argument that Skinner was playing for a slightly more talented offensive team?
ReplyDeleteYou can also say Skinner didn't see top pairing D and Hall did.
That's a huge difference as well.
furthermore
ReplyDeleteJeff Skinner on ice sh% 10.97
Taylor Hall in ice sh% 9.21
so yeah thats some more context. i am willing to bet money that next season Skinner's on ice sh% wont be that good
A LT:
ReplyDelete"DSF: Carolina might not be much better than Toronto, but both teams were well better than the Oilers.
Carolina scored 236 goals, Oilers 193. At even strength it's Carolina 174, Edmonton 141.
Carolina was -3, Oilers -76. I think there must be some room for an argument that Skinner was playing for a slightly more talented offensive team?"
That's true, but it's a chicken and egg argument.
One of the reasons Carolina scored more is because Skinner scored more.
But, at the same time, Hall had more opportunity in terms of TOI and QualTeam.
Had Hall remained healthy, these numbers would be somewhat closer, but the math indicates an 18 year old Skinner had a significantly better rookie season.
If you want to discount age as the determining factor, several players also had better rookie seasons, including Eberle who I think will have a better, though less flashy, career than Hall.
Messier-Gretzky.
I'll take 99 :)
SumOil said...
ReplyDelete"furthermore
Jeff Skinner on ice sh% 10.97
Taylor Hall in ice sh% 9.21
so yeah thats some more context. i am willing to bet money that next season Skinner's on ice sh% wont be that good"
Well that's just crazy talk.
Here's the shooting % of the top rookies.
Grabner - 14.9
Skinner - 14.4
Marchand - 14.1
Stepan - 12.7
Couture - 12.6
Hall - 11.8
Eberle - 11.4
Ennis - 9.5
Shattenkirk - 8.3
Paajarvi - 8.3
Fowler - 8.1
Are you suggesting Hall is the only player who will get better and all the rest are frauds?
I'd be worried more about Paajarvi if I was you.
Hands of plywood.
DSF
ReplyDeletethere is a difference between sh% and on ice sh%
sh% is an individual stat but on ice sh% is a group stat. it means that the percentage of all shots fired when the player was on ice that resulted in goals.
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=34&s=32&f1=2010_s&f2=5v5&f7=60-&c=0+1+3+5+29+30+31+32+33+34
ReplyDeleteEven if Skinner's on ice SH% was a 2% too high, his development should easily overcome a drop to the ''norm''. (I wonder how much of a difference it is in goal... must not be that large...)
ReplyDeleteThe NW is the weakest division in hockey...by a country mile.
ReplyDeleteCareful, your mighty Canucks are in that division.
So we're looking at quality of competition and quality of linemates/team.
ReplyDeleteDSF has mentioned that Skinner played with Ruutu and Larose. What were the other linemates and how do they compare to this bunch:
21.4% EV 14 EBERLE,JORDAN - 4 HALL,TAYLOR - 10 HORCOFF,SHAWN
17.02% EV 13 COGLIANO,ANDREW - 14 EBERLE,JORDAN - 4 HALL,TAYLOR
15.46% EV 14 EBERLE,JORDAN - 89 GAGNER,SAM - 4 HALL,TAYLOR
5.92% EV 4 HALL,TAYLOR - 83 HEMSKY,ALES - 27 PENNER,DUSTIN
5.52% EV 4 HALL,TAYLOR - 10 HORCOFF,SHAWN - 27 PENNER,DUSTIN
5.52% EV 89 GAGNER,SAM - 4 HALL,TAYLOR - 83 HEMSKY,ALES
5.36% EV 4 HALL,TAYLOR - 83 HEMSKY,ALES - 10 HORCOFF,SHAWN
4.07% EV 67 BRULE,GILBERT - 13 COGLIANO,ANDREW - 4 HALL,TAYLOR
2.07% EV 89 GAGNER,SAM - 4 HALL,TAYLOR - 27 PENNER,DUSTIN
1.51% EV 13 COGLIANO,ANDREW - 4 HALL,TAYLOR - 27 PENNER,DUSTIN
well had his on ice sh% been 2 points lower, carolina would have scored 12 less goals at ES considering average individual point percentage for a forwards is about 75%, skinner would have about9 less points.
ReplyDeleteskinner right now has p/g 0.7683
hall p/g 0.646
skinner adjusted p/g = 0.658 which is similar to that of hall.
What Skinner did was pretty darn impressive, but why are we ready to damped what Hall did? i dont get that.
We'll know that Hall is "there" when he stops missing the net so much. All the tools to get 50, just needs to slow it down in his head ever so slightly, and get a little more control of that ripping shot.
ReplyDeleteAnd a hat tip back to you sir as well *nod*
ReplyDeleteI know this isn't measurable, but there is greater pressure on a 1st overall pick in a Canadian city (as compared to a 1st round pick in a Carolina). We'll never know if Skinner could have handled the spotlight and expectations and delivered a la Hall.
ReplyDeleteSorry to go off topic LT, but I just found this article on the Journal's website and I think it's worth sharing:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.edmontonjournal.com/sports/What+will+Oilers+look+like+next+fall/4598183/story.html
Interesting that the only 'sure things' Matheson has on D are 6,49 and 58. I think it's safe to pencil 77 in. Matheson talks about the possibility of dealing him, but I highly doubt that will happen.
Point number 6 is somewhat comforting. I know Matheson does have some contacts within the org so maybe management is either (a) under some pressure from Katz to at least be competitive, or (b) not as oblivious as we think.
I think it's pretty clear that, by the numbers, Skinner had the better season. I'm not going to bet on his career over Hall's, but after one season, considering only their NHL careers, Skinner's ahead.
ReplyDeleteAs for Matheson, have we seen any evidence that he's connected in the Katz era? My impression is that the organization's much more tight-lipped than it used to be, so I don't think I'd put a whole lot of stock in Matheson's prediction.
I did find it interesting that Matheson had Cogliano down as a given to start next season, though.
ReplyDeleteFrom Matty's article:
ReplyDeleteGoal: Devan Dubnyk, Nikolai Khabibulin
Defence: Ryan Whitney, Peckham, Jeff Petry
Forwards: Shawn Horcoff, Sam Gagner, Taylor Hall, Jordan Eberle, Magnus Paajarvi, Linus Omark, Andrew Cogliano, Hemsky
Those are his keepers. Yeah, dealing Gilbert will help. Lordy.
Those are his keepers. Yeah, dealing Gilbert will help. Lordy.
ReplyDeleteWell, he did say "Would the Oilers trade him? Not unless they could get a different type of defender back, no older, or a big forward." That strikes me as fair enough, and I'm a Gilbert fan.
It is odd that he's apparently less of a sure thing than Cogliano, though.
SS: Yeah, I don't know. I just kinda figure that when a guys covered the same team for 30 years, and is also in the HOF he's gotta have some sort of inside info, even if it's very little. I agree that the Katz regime does play things close to the chest though.
ReplyDeleteovell: what Khabibulin says whenever he gets scored on.
I'm sure that Matheson, like anybody with a press pass, is going to be more plugged in than you are me - hard not to be, when you see these guys in practice, hear them talk, hear coaching staff talk about the players, and so on. Tones of voice and body language and who's interacting with who in the dressing room...that stuff's got probative value. I'm just not sure Matheson's getting fed a lot of inside tips.
ReplyDeleteThe Skinner and Stamkos talk reminds me of an article on Skinner that was in The Hockey News. It said that both guys were training with cyborg Gary Roberts in the offseason and they figured it helped them greatly.
ReplyDeleteCan we send Hall to work out with those guys? Please?
Re Hall and Skinner,
ReplyDeleteA lot of this is percentage driven.
If Hall had shot at Skinner's 14.4%, he'd have scored 27 goals in 65 games. That's 33 goals over an 82 game schedule, i.e. more than Skinner scored. Indeed, one of the most dominant things abut Hall's 18 yr old performance is that it wasn't fueled by an unsustainable percentage.
PP time is also a factor, as is the efficacy of the PP. That can't be working in Hall's favor because Edmonton's PP sucked butt.
Right now I'd say we need to see more before we start making comparisons more precise than that both are dynamite young rookie players.
But Skinner is an excellent player. Really skilled kid.
Kris:
ReplyDeleteTell that to Alexander Semin.
Some great shooters shoot around the 14%.
Stamkos' been shoting 16% for two straight years now.
As long as Skinner hasn't played another year I don't think it's fair to just say his stats were inflated by luck. Just might be his stuff's who good enough.
@ DSF:
ReplyDeleteI didn't see you actually make the statement, but are you implying that with a redraft you would take Skinner over Hall?
Skinner had a better year than Hall. No question. If I had a vote he would get the Calder. I would still take Hall over Skinner. In fairness I have only watched Skinner play twice this year and perused the stat lines.
Melancholy C: I think Hall definitely would have gone first overall in 2006 over Erik Johnson or Jordan Staal.
ReplyDeleteAs should the eventual #3 and #4 picks so it really doesn't matter. I think comparing draft picks by position each year if pretty silly to be honest. ie PO's posting last weeking comparing the #18 picks for the past 10 years.
If Hall could come even come remotely close value-wise to being Jonathon Toews, #3 in the year you use as example, we'd really have something to brag about. Right now it's still unknown, and certainly arguable, as to whether he'll even record more points, not goals, than Eberle over his career.
He may not even turn out to be as good a player as the guy selected #7 overall in 2010. He certainly wasn't this year.
I bet Shirokov would kill if his team got to play in the NW/Western Conference.
ReplyDeleteMore seriously: someone explain to me why we are talking about Skinner in a Hall thread. What does it illuminate? Is there anything to be learned from the comparison? I mean beyond making vague suggestions and intimations and forwarding piecemeal evidence but not actually forwarding a real argument.
Even more seriously: can we enjoy Hall and the rest of the Oiler players in LT's fine reasonable expectation series?
In any event, one thing I think you can say about Hall is the Oilers were far less watchable once he went down. He just has that natural excitement factor. It might have zero bearing on his production or success as an NHL player, but he's just a beauty to watch.
cabbie: I'm not talking about a redraft. I'm talking that if you take Taylor Hall's 2009-10 season and have it occur in 2005-06, he goes first overall. Obviously if St.Louis could do the 2006 draft over again they take Toews, but that's after watching Toews win a Stanley Cup and Olympic Gold Medal. In 2006 they had no idea that Toews would become the player he is. Hindsight's 20/20 my friend.
ReplyDeleteWell, Hall was picked first overall, which means he's supposed to be the best in his draft class. Skinner's casting doubt on whether he actually is. That's not really damning on Hall, any more than it's damning on Vincent Lecavalier that Pavel Datsyuk was picked 170 picks after him, but you can see why people are making the comparisons. It's the Oilers' prolonged off-season, which is a perfectly satisfactory time for idle chit-chat of this nature.
ReplyDeleteNow, if somebody wants to claim that Hall is anything but an exceptional and exciting player who has fully covered the bet so far, then we have a problem.
(Incidentally, all of this goes to support my frequent warnings that Stu's draft record is very likely to regress towards, if not all the way to, the mean. The most successful scouting team in hockey is going to be good and lucky. Stu's been both of those things so far. But I think we can make the case that, in the 2010 first round, he was a little less lucky, if no less good, than Carolina's chief amateur scout.)
If someone wants to argue Jeff Skinner had a better rookie year than Taylor Hall I have no difficulty with that. Skinner was absolutely superb. Barring catastrophic injury I have ZERO hesitation in saying Hall will have a better NHL career than Skinner. That is not a knock on Skinner.That is a testimonial to Hall's determination.
ReplyDeleteMessier did not have the best couple of years in the NHL but figured it out ok for an adequate NHL career n/w/s starting slowly.
Now in LT's quest for a kinder, gentler Lowetide world, I have not said that anyone comparing Andrew Cogliano's rookie year with Taylor Hall's rookie year is INSANE!!
I thought it, I would just never say it. In fairness, I am an old timey saw him good guy but that is remarkably similar to comparing Rick Vaive to Gordie Howe. Both right handed shots, both Canadians and, insofar as I know, both homo-sapiens,
Thereafter they are NOT SIMILAR AT ALL!!!!
Now Cogliano may have a better NHL career than Taylor Hall but, barring catastrophic injury, I will wager a goodly sum of $$ that that does not happen. Anyone want to take Cogliano on that wager?
Good grief, country miles aren't what they used to be, as Dallas recently found out.
ReplyDeleteThe NW division minus the suck (ours truly) is the worst division by a country hay bale. Hay bales aren't what they used to be, either, they're a lot bigger now.
Calgary finished above the eastern conference cut line.
Colorado was on playoff pace until January 24'th (25-18-6). Then the floor fell out with one win in 21 games (4-3 over St Louis) before they found just the tonic (ours truly, March 19'th, in a suck-vs-suck for the ages).
By then both teams were involved in a food fight with sticks of dynamite in concerted effort to contribute blood to the Valhalla blood bank.
It's a strange league. When you get into a spot of trouble, reach for your potion belt.
get flask
open flask
douse self
get match
light match
touch match to self
Poof. Roar. Tinkle, tinkle, tinkle. You have been reincarnated +1 Taylor Hall.
You are holding a burning match. The air is thick with soot and the stench of kreosote. There are a number of flasks scattered around you.
examine flasks
Many are lying broken in puddles of water. A couple of empty flasks are lying open in small fire pits. One of the smallest flasks glows attractively. Several are lettered in an elegant dotted script.
Thirteen other dwarves have now crowded into the room. They are a sorry looking lot, with nary a silver tassel among them. The quickest are trailing ghoulish smoke rings by some art of necromancy or immolation.
Your fingers are starting to burn.
extinguish match
Are you sure? It's customary to evaluate flasks before extinguishing match.
blow out the G.D. match
That will not be possible without further evaluation.
It would surprise me if Taylor Hall doesn't end up with a 5-goal game before his career is done. In fact, I think he may very well have more than one.
ReplyDeleteWith that being said, I still have some reservations on how great a player he can ultimately become. By my eye, he looks like a less skilled version of Pavel Bure, but with Canadian sandpaper added to balance the scale a bit.
Right now, the gist of his game is, more or less, comprised of two elements: 1) rushing the puck, 2) shooting the puck. Mind you, he certainly performs both tasks with great competency, even if the end results are not quite there yet at the NHL level.
The most pressing concern for Hall is that he needs to learn to use his teammates better. I think even Horcoff made comments along those lines during this past season. Passing does not seem to be among his initial instincts when he gets the puck. His awareness of where his teammates are is sometimes lacking. Perhaps he's blanking them out on purpose. Or maybe he truly does suffer from a bit of tunnel vision. I know he's a shooter by nature and an excellent one at that. But adding more variety to his game will be beneficial to both himself and his team.
He seems to be using an extra long stick that affords him great shot velocity with minimal backswing. It also serves him well when he rushes the puck at top speed on open ice. But I think it may be costing him some dexterity when it comes to playmaking, as well as when he has to play a "half court" game in the o-zone where he finds himself in a more stationary position and must execute in tight quarters. In those circumstances, Eberle has shown to be much more adroit than Hall in both hands and feet. I think this is an important aspect of the modern game that he must address.
Hall is almost universally regarded as a great skater. For the most part, that reputation is justified. While Hall's rink length speed is very high end, I don't think his agility is quite in the same ballpark. But it certainly cannot be considered bad and be a cause of great concern. What I do find awkward is his first few strides of acceleration from standstill. They look very deliberate. Sometimes I wonder if he's actually reciting power skating instuctions to himself: "OK...knee bend...push with full leg extension...use the inside edges...toe flick..". During those brief moments, he would appear to have temporarily lost awareness of his surroundings as he concentrates on executing his strides. This is opposed to, say Eberle, for whom it's bascially pickup and go, smooth as silk, and immediately ready to make the next play. For Hall, he seems to require a little more time to recalibrate his compass.
Having said all that, I know I'm probably just nitpicking on the flaws of youth. Hall has certainly had a very promising start. I certainly would not be surprised (nor dismayed) if he makes all my petty criticisms irrelevant in a few years.
Melancholy C: I'm not talking about a redraft. I'm talking that if you take Taylor Hall's 2009-10 season and have it occur in 2005-06, he goes first overall.
ReplyDeleteHe probably does but that might also say something about how NHL scouts view Uni hockey vs major junior. 46 in 34 as an 18 year old is nothing to sneeze at I don't think. Neither are Backstrom's accomplishments in the SEL but then again...not major junior.
None of my original point was meant to diminish Hall now or for the future, but rather just a bit of temperance of expectations. I think we revere pure goal scorer's in a different light than the set up types but he's about the only really exciting thing Oiler fans have had to cheer about in years. I would just like to know that somewhere, somehow the Oilers had Skinner ranked decently and had taken a nice long look rather than focusing on the obvious two choices a blind chimp could have made. Plucking a piece of TBone from a deep pile of sirloin is a skill they might need this year.
Choppy S: He seems to be using an extra long stick that affords him great shot velocity with minimal backswing. It also serves him well when he rushes the puck at top speed on open ice. But I think it may be costing him some dexterity when it comes to playmaking, as well as when he has to play a "half court" game in the o-zone where he finds himself in a more stationary position and must execute in tight quarters.
Wondered if others had this opinion as well. His stick looks to be about 3 inches too long to me and he was certainly losing control in tight situations. Great for blasting them off the wing on a rush but not so hot for dangling around pylons.
Whatever, he's all ours now and that's refreshing. I'm just as thrilled Eberle and his track record of success at every level he's played at is here also. Would be real nice if Renney treated him with the same carte blanche as Hall gets but I digress.
LT,
ReplyDeleteSkinner's most common 5v5 linemates, From dobberhockey.com
29.31% EV 59 LAROSE,CHAD - 15 RUUTU,TUOMO - 53 SKINNER,JEFF
17.38% EV 36 JOKINEN,JUSSI - 15 RUUTU,TUOMO - 53 SKINNER,JEFF
17.07% EV 26 COLE,ERIK - 15 RUUTU,TUOMO - 53 SKINNER,JEFF
8.1% EV 26 COLE,ERIK - 53 SKINNER,JEFF - 12 STAAL,ERIC
2.7% EV 15 RUUTU,TUOMO - 53 SKINNER,JEFF - 12 STAAL,ERIC
2.46% EV 59 LAROSE,CHAD - 53 SKINNER,JEFF - 12 STAAL,ERIC
2.29% EV 26 COLE,ERIK - 36 JOKINEN,JUSSI - 53 SKINNER,JEFF
1.87% EV 15 RUUTU,TUOMO - 53 SKINNER,JEFF - 16 SUTTER,BRANDON
1.81% EV 26 COLE,ERIK - 53 SKINNER,JEFF - 16 SUTTER,BRANDON
Okay, so Ruutu is a pretty nice player and the other winger was either LaRose, Jokinen or Cole.
ReplyDeleteHall played with Eberle, and the centers were Horcoff, Cogliano or Eberle.
Hurricanes sure have a lot of experience for a team that everyone says is rebuilding.
Who were the respective Dmen on the ice?
ReplyDeleteActually don't answer that, as I find the whole Skinner argument beyond Steve's draft observations to be insignificant.
Great season, great player. We saw Starsky make real strides this year. Guys like Dennis, despite my observations to the contrary, thought he wasn't ready. Going from split opinions on readiness to being the team's top scorer in the toughest league in the world at 18 years old is impressive.
Getting another player of the same quality this June will be very difficult.
Arena Questions
ReplyDeleteSomeone's waking up to a zamboni in their driveway today.
fpv,
ReplyDeleteFair enough. That's possible. But it's so early in their careers, it's nreasonable to assume either Hall won't shoot at a higher percentage or Skinner will.
I asssumed Cogs would shoot at a higher percentage because of his speed, and breakaways. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
So it's possible, and quite likely given how few shoot at that high percentage, that Skinner has had some luck inflate his numbers.
That said, he's a killer goal scorer.
The handling of the arena development is a joke and the joke is on Edmonton taxpayers.
ReplyDeleteNo mention at all of Sean Couturier in this draft write up at TSN.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=361827
Skinner vs. Hall is interesting. The NW may be a weaker division in terms of overall quality of teams however the SE is still the weaker defensive division.
Aside from Colorado bleeding goals the rest of the competition Edmonton faced was better defensively within the division than what Carolina faced in theirs.
Hall also missed half of the games vs. Colorado. I think when you consider quality of teammates (I'm not talking about playing with the best on your team but overall quality). Quality of competition (in this instance I am talking about facing the opponents best players). I would think that Hall had the tougher assignment.
Hall averaged .63 ppg vs Skinner's .76 ppg. That comes to about 10 points over an 82 game schedule. I think if roles are reversed Hall covers that spread easily.
Is it just me or does Skinner's season not affect us at all.
ReplyDeleteHall is still a quality prospect. True
Skinner is also a quality prospect, perhaps even better that Hall according to some. True
If the Oilers drafted Skinner last June it would have been a huge risk/reward. True.
The Oilers at this point in time have no chance of getting Skinner. True.
It's great that Skinner's doing well but it doesn't mean Hall is not or that you could get Skinner on our team.
I find it odd that DSF's whole contention seems to be we shouldn't get too giddy over Eberle's and Hall's development and seasons because Skinner has done so well this season.
ReplyDeleteThe facts are Skinner had a terrific rookie season, Hall and Eberle also had good seasons. I don't see how any of those are mutually exclusive.
Making a dispute out of nothing when it seems like everyone is on the same page.
DSF is just trolling the board.
ReplyDeleteIf Skinner is better than Hall, how does that affect us in the least? How does it affect Hall?
It doesn't.
DSF loves to throw stuff out there that will create a reaction, and he will make shallow couunterpoints ad nauseum most of the time completely sidestepping the crux of the point anyone else is making.
He has no intention of ever furthering a conversation, just to counterpoint you into submission.
Schitzo,
ReplyDeleteLamphier did an excellent job summing up a lot of the question that many of us have.
I blame LaForge.
The fact Couturier drops so damn low, is the proof scouts don't have a clue.
ReplyDeleteIf anyone has a 89% chance of panning out (And 100% to play in the NHL) there's no way he should be that low.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHow long till training camp?
ReplyDeleteI don't read this DSF guy for the same reason reason why Traktor doesn't get on my nerves: these guys are either totally off base or they're just stirring the pot.
ReplyDeleteeither way you won't change their mind from foolishness or from a foolish approach.
the only foolishness that I even really respond to these days is people who don't have a problem trading away real players because they think every draft pick or prospect's a bird in the hand.
LT: maybe after you're through your Reasonable Expectations series it might be worth having a post dedicated to the "C issues" with the Oilers. For two straight threads there's been at least some speculation about moving Eberle or Hall to C (and my "bold prediction" is that we'll see the same with MPS too). It could be useful to consider the issue on its own.
ReplyDeleteSome random thoughts:
ReplyDelete- Skinner is a very impressive player but I'd take 4 because of the added physicality; also, I think he'll eventually outpoint him by a little bit.
- I like 77 but I'd deal him if there was a big talented ruffian in return who could make a good first pass.
- I started listening to the exit interviews and the first one's with Stauffer and DD. Stauffer's speaking to him and causually throws out the word "gardien."
Stauffer is such a knob.
seriously.
- baileys blended with ice - shivers - goes well when alternated with Guinness.
- root beer mixed with spiced rum is magic.
- if 4 can play pivot then we're better off,
fpv,
ReplyDeleteYeah, Couterier dropping that far is a mystery to me to. I know jack, but to me he still ranks in the same group as Larsson, RNH, Landeskog, and maybe now Huberdeau, but there doesn't seem to be a reason to put him below that group. (I know you and Zona put him at the top.)
It seems like a bit of a crapshoot trying to pick the best prospect in that group. They all have flaws and they all have strengths.
I was high on Larsson, but I don't know anymore.
Just glad we get one of them.
Think about Calgary getting a middling prospect.
Or TO, getting nothing.
Taylor Hall is an exceptional talent, who in this year has been outperformed by Jeff Skinner. No one knows for certain if this is a blip or a quality of teammates thing or a long-term thing.
ReplyDeleteAll I know is that the guy who brought it up buggered off the moment this point was made, suggesting the argument was posited simply to muddy the waters.
The Oil have two of the best young talents in the league in Hall and Eberle. Building a team around these two is a great idea and suggests that greatness is down the road for the team.
My contention, as always, is that the management needs to change in order to maximise what that greatness will look like.
FPB: It's probably worth considering the possibility they know something about his likelyhood of being in that 11%. That said, it seems more like an overreaction to small flaws than anything else. If he keeps on putting up points in the playoffs (especially if he gets to the Memorial Cup and does well) he'll get his name back in the #1 overall conversation.
ReplyDeleteFor the life of me, I can't spell "Couturier" correctly.
ReplyDeleteOh, and how do I get tickets for tonight's lottery?
So, if Eberle or Hall ended up at center, would the have a higher ceiling than the centers at the top of this draft??
ReplyDeleteStarting to get a bit nervous about the lottery tonight...
IMO, the only worse thing than not drafting Larsson, is to have to play against a defense vastly improved by his presence in Colorado.
Do we want this kid blocking our path to the winning the conference finals 3-4 years from now because center is deemed more of a need position, and some people have issues with drafting a defenseman first?
Looking back now, I think it is safe to say that we are all very happy that we finished 30th last year and won the lottery so we could get Taylor!
ReplyDeleteif 4 can play pivot then we're better off
ReplyDeleteI still contend that 4 on the wing allows him to use his speed to stretch the D as soon as the Oilers get possession in their own zone.
Putting him at C takes that away due Dzone defensive responsibilities.
You can counter that by having 91 on his wing, but 91 isn't as dangerous as 4 one on one. At least not yet.
If Skinner was in the conversation for 1st last year then discussing him as anything other than a curiosity makes no sense. Skinner was a late riser, justified by his fantastic rookie season, but on draft day, and in the weeks leading up to it, it was never a Hall-Skinner debate.
ReplyDeleteThat said, it is an interesting comparison between the NW and SE. Vancouver and Washington, the last two President Cup Champs, are pretty comprable - call it a wash. Carolina and Calgary - bad starts, strong finishes that fell just short - are another fair comparison.
Atlanta's pts compare with Minnesota but the season played out more like Colorado - going well until the bottom fell out. Throw Florida into this foursome and I think that the two pairs cancel everything out.
Which leaves us with the Tampa and the Oil to tip the balance of the debate. No doubt which division is the stronger here but it is an interesting comparison in that Tampa is where the Oil hope to be in a few years (with the Hall-Stamkos comparison to boot).
rophy = what Skinner will get in Vegas this summer, as in Calder
MattM: Yeah. But I'd still go for no clue idea.
ReplyDeleteI've ran another research on the kids who had equal or more than 5 points under theyr game totals from CHL in the 1st round.
Turns out the ''best'' right now of that gang is Grabner who just got waived.
Basically out of 14, only Grabner, Sutter, Setoguchi and Fehr came out good.
That's a 28% chance your pick becomes a marginal top 6 guy.
The scouts seem to be big into that 28% each time, and they got burned.
- root beer mixed with spiced rum is magic.
ReplyDeleteCheers Dennis. I've taken a lot of flak for this exact drink over the years, but it is truly magic.
Off topic, but, LT, are you going to have a draft lottery post here today?
well i am with WG on the issue of hall on going to C
ReplyDeleteWG (and Sum): I think you make a persuasive case against moving Hall to C. In lieu of that, what do you feel is the best route to address this glaring need? Draft or moving another player in there? I'm going to exclude free agency because I don't see the Oil offering Brad Richards the $8M per that it would take to get him to Edmonton.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what WG and Sum about Hall losing his explosiveness and ability to drive opposition D back if he becomes a pivot, but if we draft Larsson what other legitimate option do we have? I suppose if/when Hall and Eberle begin playing up to their potential they may be talented enough to make a guy like Sam Gagner appear to be a #1 center.
ReplyDeleteI just think that if there's anyone on this team that is going to put in the effort in the offseason that it would take to switch from W to C it's Hall.
This probably doesn't mean anything, but NHL'11 has Eberle listed as a C, which I thought was strange because I'm under the impression that he's played W his whole life.
I agree that Eberle's big brain would make him a good C.
ReplyDeleteI'd rather see him there than Hall.
I keep drafting C's too.
Looking back now, I think it is safe to say that we are all very happy that we finished 30th last year and won the lottery so we could get Taylor!
ReplyDeleteYeah! I hope we can do it next year too!
Actually, I have a sincere question: we know you're ecstatic about having finished thirtieth last year. We know you're ecstatic about finishing thirtieth this year. What will be your reaction if we finish thirtieth next year? Or the year after?
Woodguy: You'll appreciate this one. Freaking hilarious:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCqEVr4soLU&feature=player_embedded
I'm looking to finishing 30th until the team's ready to win the cup again.
ReplyDeleteWho needs growing pains? Just suck until there are too many good young players to fuck it up.
*Kevin Lowe*
I know two people, both basically losers, who love to go to court(civil). Court gives each of these guys the chance to act on a stage, with a serious outcome. Not being very important, they seem to need this.
ReplyDeleteI know two other people named Lowe+Tambellini, who love to go to the draft with a top pick. The draft gives each of these guys the chance to act on a stage, with a serious outcome. Not being very important in the NHL(out of playoffs forever), they seem to need this.
melancholyculkin: I don't think you realize how good a prospect Erik Johnson actually was. He was probably the best d-man prospect since Pronger. There's no way Hall would have been drafted over him. He probably would have gone 2nd though as #2 through #5 that year were pretty close to each other in value, and Hall's upside could have separated himself a bit from that group.
ReplyDeleteI'm of the opinion that you keep Hall at wing. He's your deep threat aka Milt Stegall, Geroy Simon, Jermaine Copeland. The kind of guy that gets you in the end zone on the fly.
ReplyDeleteTo me Eberle would make a much better C and you wouldn't lose Hall's ability off the rush. I think their passing ability is pretty equal but Eberle's smarts, elusiveness, defensive awareness and the way he can control a play in the offensive zone make him a perfect candidate for C. I also think the move to C for Eberle wouldn't affect his counting numbers like they could Hall's because of the difference in style they each seem to play
What will be your reaction if we finish thirtieth next year? Or the year after?
ReplyDeleteIt appears there may be a couple of generational talents available next year. It wouldn't be the worst thing.
The year after it seems very unlikely they could. HOPE will be in their third year, Hamilton, Lander, Hartikenen, Marincin, Petry, etc. will have settled in and there will be a lot of depth in the system.
If you can have three years of 30th place finishes with Stu running the draft, this franchise will be set for a long time.
To me Eberle would make a much better C and you wouldn't lose Hall's ability off the rush.
ReplyDeleteNot sure that Eberle has/will have the strength to be good enough at faceoffs.
Ben: True enough. I didn't pay the 2006 entry draft any thought whatsoever because, obviously, I had other things on the brain. Was he as good (or better) a prospect than Victor Hedman or Adam Larsson? I think Hall goes first over Hedman in 09 and Larsson this year. This is all water under the bridge though, because Hall was drafted in 2010 not 2006 or 2009.
ReplyDeleteIf you can have three years of 30th place finishes with Stu running the draft, this franchise will be set for a long time.
ReplyDeleteIgnoring the fact that teams who finish 30th repeatedly are badly run teams that don't improve, doesn't that imply poor progression from the prospects? Or trading off Hall/Eberle to ensure lower placing? Not to mention that finishing 30th requires a bit of the right kind of luck too.
I personally think the team should be aiming to finish mid to high 20's this season, and in the top ten in the following 2 seasons. It is do-able considering the system depth and the FA availability over the next few years.
forreala - you can'ta be forreala witha that suggestion!
DSF.. you must be board today..
ReplyDeleteAnyone that talks about PRV's shooting percentage as a tell that he has hands of stone is neglecting to see that the guy shoots from everywhere,.. very uninhibited player, in that respect, imo..
Clay: all those other people are wrong:)
ReplyDeleteBut just try alternating a Guinness with Baileys blended with ice - they're called Shivers - and you can thank me later.
Haha,.. that was a hilarious video..
ReplyDeleteIf you can have three years of 30th place finishes with Stu running the draft, this franchise will be set for a long time.
ReplyDeleteBy that point Hall, Pajaarvi and will be moving towards UFA status at lightning speed.
Won't that be exciting!
omolochi, a little town in Oklahoma
nothing against Gordie Howe - and I certainly believe the Dys are loaded for bear - but everytime I see Bieksa being ultra confident it reminds me of heading into the '06 series with Det when Howe said of the Wings chances, "the cake is baked and now all they have to do is put it into the oven."
ReplyDeleteNow, I don't know what Howe knows about baking cakes but Datsyuk was hurt that year and wasn't the same for that series.. So, for my comparison's sake, let's say Pavel was the eggs in the Wings cake and their chances were scrambled because he wasn't up to speed.
I would like to see some ingredient other than Malholtra be absent for the Dys but maybe that's just enough:)
also, I didn't see this mentioned here before but I figure I would mention it now as I was reminded of the comment by Mr. D's post.
ReplyDeleteReading through all the stuff today and either 28's extremely league-savvy or the kids' already in view RFA status is already being discussed because today when wondering about a two or three year deal for himself he actually referenced that the org will be in a hard spot in two years time.
Dennis, I though the creamy white topping on a Guinness was Bailey's.
ReplyDeleteThe type of root beer and type of spiced rum could have a rather significant impact on the quality of that beverage. Any preferences?
ReplyDeleteIt appears there may be a couple of generational talents available next year. It wouldn't be the worst thing.
ReplyDeletePeople throw the term 'generational' around all too often. The whole fact of the matter is they're supposed to be very rare, as in one in a generation, maybe two. Complete game changers.
For that type of discussion you're looking at Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, and maybe that Morenz guy. I get a good chuckle whenever someone calls Crosby or Ovechkin generational, because the fact is they are not. They're superstars and probably the best in the league currently, but complete and utter domination of their contemporaries isn't evident.
I start cringing when people start using the term generational for a young player like Hall or for the prospects in next year's draft.
I usually roll with Cpt Morgan and Mug root beer.
ReplyDeleteThough, I haven't tried anything else but the first combo was so great:)
Oddly enough, my younger cousin was the first one who pimped it to me after having drank it with some - wait for - albertan co-workers.
Spoiler: No, I don't believe it is.
Seriously, though, pour up a Guiness and then blend some Baileys with ice and put that in another glass.
Alternate sips or gulps or whatever and it's quite awesome.
Note: if you ever get bored with the Shivers - or you don't have some Guiness to alternate it with - pour a little bit of Gibson's finest in your Shiver:)
ReplyDeletemelancholyculkin: He was a better prospect than both. He was thought to have top-end upside both offensively and defensively, while Hedman and Larsson have some questions in terms of offence. Plus he probably had the most physical upside in the draft.
ReplyDeleteFor that type of discussion you're looking at Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, and maybe that Morenz guy. I get a good chuckle whenever someone calls Crosby or Ovechkin generational, because the fact is they are not. They're superstars and probably the best in the league currently, but complete and utter domination of their contemporaries isn't evident.
ReplyDeleteI don't know - as you say, the requirement for a generational player is, by generation, the sort of player who comes by once in a generation. You don't need to be head and shoulders better than everybody else who came by in that generation, you just need to be the best.
A generation's roughly twenty years, right? Isn't one of Sydney Crosby or Alex Ovechkin the best hockey player to come around in the last twenty years? Doesn't that mean that one of them's a generational talent? Hall isn't (at least, if he is it will be a hell of a surprise). But I don't think you can say that neither Crosby nor Ovechkin is.
Given PRV's size and speed, perhaps he would be a good 1C?
ReplyDeletewookiedi: If Chewy trained as a Jedi
@ LHMF#1
ReplyDeleteI recently discovered a new black spiced rum called "Kraken".
http://www.krakenrum.com/
As a bonus, you get to yell "RELEASE THE KRAKEN" each time you poor a drink. Makes kids jump and wives shake their heads.
Dennis - Captain is fine, but Mug is swill. Gotta have something in a glass bottle or at least Barq's.
ReplyDeleteMatt - interesting. I've used CM or Lamb's Black Sheep which is rather different; might have to try your pick.
Dennis - Captain is fine, but Mug is swill.
ReplyDeleteI don't think you're adding enough spiced rum.
(Best non-artisan root beer I've found so far is Big 8, which is only available out here in the Atlantic provinces, I believe.)
Also, if memory serves, Newfoundlanders are pretty big on the Pepsi products - I think it has to do with either Pepsi employing a lot of people there, or Coke having laid off a lot of people there. One or the other. Dennis can clarify, unless he says that I'm completely out to lunch, in which case I revoke his authorization to clarify.
ReplyDelete(Also, Newfoundlanders should stop hogging all the birch beer, which is barely available anywhere else in Canada, despite being kind of awesome.)
A&W Root Beer is the only Root Beer as far as I'm concerned.
ReplyDeleteThe girlfriend shudders when you mention Spiced and Root Beer these days. She possibly drank a few too many a few years back on a camping trip and she hasn't sipped one since.
Ribs: your woman should man up!:)
ReplyDeleteLM: I always liked Hires and I believe that became Mug, right? I pick up the diet kind so it's not like you're tasting it for real, anyway.
SS: NF seems to be a Pepsi place for sure. Me and the ladyfriend have joked about that for a long time:) And maybe you're on to something with why and the only thing I can speak to regarding that is Browning Harvey is a Pepsi distributor and that does employ a few people. But I'm not sure if that makes all the difference.
The Big 8 and Birch Beer references were quite nice, though:)
SS, I can see your point. I've always thought of a generational talent as someone who defines that generation though. I just don't see either of those two quite doing that yet.
ReplyDeleteI believe generation is closer to 30 years, so give them another decade our so I suppose.
Nope, Hires did not become Mug. Hires still exists and is owned by Dr Pepper/Snapple. Mug is owned by Pepsi. Hures used to be carried in Coke and Pepsi machines at various times, but now in neither.
ReplyDeleteBirch beer is periodically available in Edmonton. Right now Boylan's makes two kinds that are available at Sobey's; original and creamy red birch beer.
I'm a bit of a soft drink fiend
SS: you're right. Coca cola closed their facility in NL and imported the product only.
ReplyDeleteIt was way before I remember, no idea when really, but my father always told me to never buy coke, stick with pepsi due to the aforementioned event.
Resonable Artspectations #2: http://plixi.com/p/91971162
ReplyDelete