Shawn Horcoff has seen some things in his time with the Oilers. From the early days of the MacT coaching regime through the trading of Guerin, Weight and Niinimaa and the magical year of 2006, things must have seemed pretty bright.
From summer 2006 through this very moment, Shawn Horcoff has been pushing a boulder up a big freaking hill. Now, he's been rewarded for it (Horcoff cashed in on free agency at exactly the right time, but I hold no grudges) but there's been a price to pay.
Spend a generation in the second division and pretty soon losing games is like breathing: part of every day living.
Shawn Horcoff 10-11
- 5x5 points per 60: 1.47 (6th among regular forwards)
- 5x4 points per 60: 4.99 (1st among regular forwards)
- Qual Comp: toughest among regular forwards
- Qual Team: best available teammates among regular forwards
- Corsi Rel: 7.0 (4th best among regular forwards)
- Zone Start: 50.6% (7th easiest among regular forwards)
- Zone Finish: 46.6% (13th best among regular forwards)
- Shots on goal/percentage: 78/11.5% (5th among F's but DNQ)
- Boxcars: 47gp, 9-18-27
- Plus Minus: -1 on a team that was -52
- What do these numbers tell us? Horcoff had a strong year before the injury. Although his zone finish was poor and he was outside the actual scorers at 5x5/60 (despite playing with Hall and Eberle (31.77 EV) and Hemsky and Penner (18.44 EV) a lot of the time) he did well in most of the advanced stats. Solid Corsi despite tough opposition, did a nice job as mentor to the kids and sports a wonderful end of season plus minus.
- How could these numbers be better? He's barely inside the top 6F at 5x5/60 and trails the really skilled guys by a distinct margin. Playing with the linemates above one would hope for a stronger number. Also, the zone start isn't fab, but then again he was playing with two rookies much of the time.
- That was a horrible contract. Horcoff went to market and received fair market value. That's what the market dictated and the Oilers paid him. I've never had a problem with the contract and believe Horcoff has worked hard and performed well (when healthy) during this time.
- How's that injury? All we really know is that he should be fine for next season. Horcoff was supposed to return after 8 weeks but it never happened and I haven't seen his name bandied about for the WC's.
- His faceoff percentage is in the toilet. Horcoff's FO total was 48.3 this season and 46.4 the year before after several seasons in the .50's. I think his number will wind back as soon as these wingers gain some experience and learn how to cheat in the NHL.
- He's NOT A NUMBER ONE CENTER! I've never really understood the number 1-4 idea in regard to slotting these guys. There are no Mark Messier's here, no Beliveau's. However, Horcoff is a savvy veteran, the captain, has a long history of doing his best to fill any role asked even if his skill set didn't fit. To borrow a question from Steve Tambellini "is he an ideal offensive center? no he is not" but he's miles better than the rest of the group in most of the center disciplines.
- He's piling up the injuries. Horcoff is no longer in his 20's (32 now) and the injuries are piling up. It's a concern, and one more reason the Oilers badly need to improve the number and quality of 2-way center's on the roster.
- Renney went to Cogliano more this year. When Horcoff was injured, all centermen saw their minutes increase. For the season, at EV's: Gagner 14:25; Horcoff 14:24; Cogliano 13:36. Horcoff did play much less on the PK this past season.
- How much should they count on him? If Sam Pollock took over this team, I guarantee the Oilers would have much better depth at center by September 1. He'd bring in a checker for the 3line, move one of Cogs or Gagner to the wing and add an established 2-way C on top of the checker.
- How much WILL they count on him? The Oilers management is having a hard time identifying the Rem Murray's and the Todd Marchant's (on the pro scouting side) so we should probably expect more of the same.
•06-07 5x5 per 60m: 1.52
•07-08 5x5 per 60m: 2.59
•08-09 5x5 per 60m: 1.59
•09-10 5x5 per 60m: 1.37
•10-11 5x5 per 60m: 1.47
By the Numbers
•06-07 5x4 per 60m: 4.87
•07-08 5x4 per 60m: 4.00
•08-09 5x4 per 60m: 3.68
•09-10 5x4 per 60m: 2.80
•10-11 5x4 per 60m: 4.99
Prediction for 2010-11: 68gp, 13-29-42 (.618)
Actual 2010: 47gp, 9-18-27 (.574)
Played the toughs with rookies
The biggest thing that jumps out to me from these numbers is Horcoff's (relative) success on the PP. I'm curious whether that's because he was truly the most effective or whether his PP time mostly correlated with the time when other players were also healthy.
ReplyDeletePut another way: was he driving the bus, or simply riding at a good time?
This thread won't contain any hyperbole, bitterness, contextless arguments or bias (either way) at all.
ReplyDeletebookiethingy!
Horcoff went to market and received fair market value. That's what the market dictated and the Oilers paid him. I've never had a problem with the contract and believe Horcoff has worked hard and performed well (when healthy) during this time.
ReplyDeleteI'm a pro-Horc guy and this isn't really true. They overpaid him relative to the market by about $1MM per, did his deal a year before they had to AND did it with him coming off a shooting percentage fuelled year. It's a bizarre deal.
Exactly what I was going to say Cactus.. except to say that even if he was riding the bus, at least he was making good of the time he was given..
ReplyDeleteThere are a lot of other players that were not fairing as well..
Its nice that the anger (even mine) towards the horcoff contract has died with time (cant keep saying the same nasty things forever!? or maybe the brutal results of the last two years just camouflage it well)
either way, glad you held the fort LT..
Haha, almost true,.. (prob not even almost)
ReplyDeleteMC, you forgot to add that that percentage inflated year also required major surgery on his shoulder (not ideal)
I never had a problem with the Horcoff contract.Horcoff would give the same effort no matter what he was getting paid.What he gets paid is between him and the team.
ReplyDeleteThey overpaid him relative to the market by about $1MM per, did his deal a year before they had to AND did it with him coming off a shooting percentage fuelled year. It's a bizarre deal.
ReplyDeleteIn other words it was a Kevin Lowe SPC.
Horcoff has historically been very successful offensively when hes had lower qualcomp, but he hasn't had a toughs centreman to platoon with since Stoll was traded.
ReplyDeleteHorcoffs best years were when MacT was feeding the toughs to Stoll / Reasoner / Peca.
I think we would see a significant goal differential boost to the Oilers by adding someone like Stoll. Partly due to having two qualified pivots, but also due to Horcoffs ability to put up offensive numbers playing in the right role.
"Have an extra million a year, plus a few extra years that can't possibly pay off, just because you're my kind of second rate player...once it goes through many of our fans will be happy that we've finally got ourselves a first line centre, because even if I haven't got a fucking clue, that's just what we're buying."
ReplyDeleteKevin Lowe
You are very brave LT because the minute you wrote about Horcoff's (or is it Horcov?) contract that opened up a big can of worms.
ReplyDeleteWhat I like about the guy is he plays hard and makes no excuses when things don't go well. He's more valuable than many think - but that contract will be red meat to many in the fanbase.
He's one of the few who's capable of playing the toughs and my sense is that's as big a reason as any for why his boxcars are where they are - the exception being +/- which says a lot about the guy given how young this lineup is.
The arguments of whether he's a true 1C or 2C are academic. He's the best faceoff option we have, he does it with little help and he's a responsible two way center who prevents a lot of goals against.
I'm glad he's on this team but am concerned with him staying healthy. If we could get 70 games out of him next season we might take a significant step up (unless Renney plays a certain Russian goaltender too much).
Sedin - Kesler - Malhotra
ReplyDeleteSam Pollock can bring in some 3rd line checkers but he would still get his ass handed to him.
At some point Edmonton needs to address the foundation up the middle instead of patchwork.
Love Horcoff but looking at that Vancouver depth chart at centre or Chicago's or Philly tells you how far the Oilers have to go.
ReplyDeleteHorc needs to be one of three good Cs and, like anyone, he needs to be put into a position to succeed. At some point they are going to draft a C to play with Hall and Eberle and then Horc needs to get the proper wingers to play with in more of a defensive role and then things will look better.
As for the contract it is what it is. Probably guarantees that he is the first Oiler of any consequence to go post to post in Edmonton colours.
Horcoff - injury prone virtually over the hill re development
ReplyDeleteHemsky - injury prone virtually over the hill re development
There is a pattern emerging from the Oiler's veteran players.
Hemsky - injury prone virtually over the hill re development
ReplyDeleteAles Hemsky's 5x5/60 (2.88) was third best in the entire NHL this season among regular forwards (trailing Crosby and Daniel Sedin).
How much more "developing" do you want him to do?
I'm sure the contract stuff has died down because it doesn't really matter any more.
ReplyDeleteHow's that injury? All we really know is that he should be fine for next season. Horcoff was supposed to return after 8 weeks but it never happened and I haven't seen his name bandied about for the WC's.
Gene told us there was nerve damage and that was why the injury was prolonged. I haven't heard word of how long it's supposed to take to get better but I suspect with the nerve damage that it is a wait and see thing as swelling dictates.
This actually belongs in the previous thread, but I don't know if anyone is commenting there anymore.
ReplyDeleteAnywho:
Has anyone discussed the ramifications of playing Pitlick and Hamilton in the AHL next year?
My reading of the CBA is that the clock starts running on these contracts next year if they play 10 games in the AHL or any other professional league, i.e. the contracts do not "slide" due to the age of the players.
If both are returned to junior then their contracts would "slide", but not if they are in the AHL.
The difference would be having both players under ELC until 2014-15 rather than 2013-14.
For those interested, this would not apply to Marincin. His contract would slide whether he is in the AHL or junior.
"I'm sure the contract stuff has died down because it doesn't really matter any more."
ReplyDeleteWish that were true. Think you'll feel differently in a few years when our actual core is coming off their entry level deals and we're still cap committed to Horcoff. He could be very much AHL bound at that point ala Redden and Souray.
Does that count as going post to post with the Oil?
It's hard to understand why FAs are down on Edmonton as their destination of choice.
ReplyDeleteIf was a mediocre player entering the twilight of my career and I stopped to truly consider the contracts the Oil have handed the likes of Souray, Horcoff, Khabibulin, Gilbert, etc., I would think signing with this org starts to look pretty inviting?
What's the NHL equivalent of "Give me your tired, your poor/Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free"
How about "Give us your Sourays, your Fosters, your Frasers looking for more minutes."
Re: Scoring Chances Project
ReplyDeleteAre there any plans to amalgamate all the games into seasonal player totals, at least for the Oil?
Seems to me that after all that hard work by Dennis and others, we should have some sort of overall record at the end of the day. With an eye towards maintaining records from season to season. Can Vic or someone else pull this off?
Or has this already been done, and I missed it?
What's the NHL equivalent of "Give me your tired, your poor/Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free"
ReplyDeleteIt is pretty common place. How many bad contracts has Sather handed out in NY? CGY has a ton of bad contracts. CHI has Hossa for another 10 yrs at 7+ per yr. Add Campbell and few others and it cost them a second Cup. NJ and the Kovulchuk fiasco? TOR got the Finger and others. Alexi Yashin is still getting paid. Dipietro? Brian Rolston? Ryan Smyth? etc.
And its no different in any other sport. With rare exceptions (VAN?DET?), the only teams that don't sign the occasional bad deal are ones that are not trying to win.
Spoiler,
ReplyDeleteDerek Zona is doing that at coppernblue
He's done and posted a few guys already.
21 comments and no ridiculous statements. I would have bet the under on that (which is why I don't gamble even a little).
ReplyDeleteHorcoff could be part of a great centre corps, but he needs someone other than just Gagner, Cogs and Fraser to back him up. Likely 2-3 other NHL calibre players.
toneb - what comes next on the hearing test after tone a
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ReplyDeleteDucey, I would agree but I think you'll find in most cases that those contracts are offered to players who at least had a history of solid performance before they started to decline.
ReplyDeleteWith the Oilers, the disconcerting pattern is their wont to offer big money to clear has beens or never weres.
Josh,
ReplyDeleteBoth Pitlik and Hamilton turn 20 this year.
Hamilton already has 4 years in the WHL.
Neither of them are projecting to be 30+ goals scorers (although they might..you never know)
The need to maximize their RFA years any further is pretty minimal.
As it stands they both will get UFA years when they turn 27, but will be RFA's for both their 25th and 26th year old years.
Holding back Hall so you get an RFA year at 26 instead of 18 was the argument about him. It was never about whether or not he was "ready"
Holding back Paajarvi was about thinking that he needed a year to acclimate to both North America and the North American game (turns out to be a fairly correct predication) You would also get a 27 year old RFA year instead of a 19 year old year.
WG
ReplyDeleteSeems to me that if the data was set up right, it should automatically update throughout the season, with little totalling work done by hand, and those totals accessible to all with the proper query. No?
spOILer,
ReplyDeleteThat would be ideal, but someone has to set it up and host the results.
Vic didn't have his script us until about 30 games into the season as well.
@Spoiler...There is also something up at Cult of Hockey
ReplyDeleteVery good summary of the Oilers junior prospects over at HF. Lots of info I have not heard before:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/12997/next_wave_of_talented_junior_prospects_for_edmonton_oilers_on_their_way/
Danny: as much as I liked Reasoner I don't think he was seeing the tough guys as much as 10 was say post lockout; unless it was a year where 10 got hurt early on.
ReplyDeletePat: yes, there needs to be a big guy to come in to put 10-89 in the roles they're better suited for.
That being said, let's say 83 was healthy and a guy as good as old 94 were in camp this year, then could 10 plus those wingers do a really good tough min job while say 4 earned his training wheels on a secondary tough min line if him and 14 had a vet on their LW?
probably.
Plante in, Montgomery out for the Barons.
ReplyDeleteHorcoff - classic case of a 1st rate 3rd line centre getting tarted up and paraded around the ring like a prize 2nd or wtf 1st liner.
ReplyDeleteThe poor shmuck hates life(while laughing all the way to the bank), which is a real shame, considering if this moribund team had 2 REAL centres old Horc' might be able to excel instead of get critiqued, lol.
PS: Gagner has no business on the top 2 lines either. Not yet, and for all I know not ever. He should be on the 4th line until he breaks out and performs like he's really what he's been advertised as - which instead of being a crappy line should be like THE KID LINE from 1990.
Why can't I just buy this team and run it the way everyone here wants?
Why can't I just buy this team and run it the way everyone here wants?
ReplyDeleteBesides the financial implications, there are a number of insurmountable logical barriers.
Captcha: Poophi
Komrade Horcov, if you are monitoring these communications, please have KGB contacts disrupt Hunter's whiskey supply lines.
ReplyDeleteHunter, I hear the yotes are for sale, playoff team (for a day or 2 more anyway) and all...good value for a few pennies.
ReplyDeleteYeah Jake, but you have to be willing to make minimum payroll in Phoenix. Might as well wish for a money tree while you're at it.
ReplyDeleteIf I ran the Yotes I'd just run them into the ground, then leave town.
ReplyDeleteWhy can't I just buy this team and run it the way everyone here wants?
ReplyDeleteWhy couldn't Don Quixote kill those giants...
a link to a bunch of videos of Huberdeau,Strome,Landeskog,Hopkins and one where Larsson gets in a fight....but leaves his gloves on.Just watch one of the main videos posted then a bunch of others come up when it is over.
ReplyDeletehttp://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p=32491501#post32491501
Of course the first order of beeswax for this new Oilers owner is to inform Kevin Lowe that since I always thought he was Steve Smith(those slitty Scottish eyes lol), there's just no room for him in the organisation above merchandise selling.
ReplyDeleteOr perhaps he could stand at the entrance of the Coliseum and greet the fans, Joe Louis style.
Horcoff's contract is bad now but at the end of the term it will be horrible. Not bad, Bryan Campbellesque!
ReplyDeleteThat said he is a tireless worker, he is smart and he could play on the Oiler dynasty teams. But as the 3C or 4C and not with a cap hit of $5.5m at age 36.
Ducey if your best argument is Oiler management is as bad at managing $$$ as Glen Sather......I agree and that is no accomplishment at all. But for those pictures Slats has of Charles Dolan Slats would be fired for mismanagement course he has $6 m parked in the AHL (as opposed to Oilers $7.15m) BUT still made playoffs
How many bad contracts on Detroit, San Jose, Vancouver, Washington?
Ahh Hunter, are you hinting at contraction?? If so, music to my ears. Less teams = more talent per team.
ReplyDelete"Horcoff's contract is bad now but at the end of the term it will be horrible. Not bad, Bryan Campbellesque!"
ReplyDeleteLast 2 years of contract:
2013-14
CapHit - 5.5M
Take Home - 4M
2014-2105
CapHit - 5.5
Take Home - 3M
Would that not help a team trying to save money, reach the cap floor? Not sure if there are any obvious examples of this since salary cap started (team trading for player to help it reach cap floor).
How many bad contracts on Detroit, San Jose, Vancouver, Washington?
ReplyDeleteAs I said above, none come to mind for VAN or DET.
Washington has their share. How about Scott Hannan making $4.5 M for 23 games and 6 pts? How about Dennis Wideman getting $4 M to get 40pts in 75 games? How about Michael Nylander and his $4.875 M playing in the AHL for another teams affiliate?
So we overpay in productive years and salvage the contract by flipping him to somebody trying to get to the salary floor.
ReplyDeleteMaybe another way to do is to simply say godawful contact but a pretty good and useful player.
Vancouver just seems like a first class well run team ever since that agent took over.
ReplyDeleteNow, what is the name of that other agent, the one Kevin Lowe hates so much? Perhaps he can take over the Oilers, and show everyone how to run a professional hockey team in the 21st century.
Only a suggestion.
Scott Hannan ...the one that is a shutdown D man? that Scott Hannan? Dennis Wideman.... Those are 2 contracts that are remarkably similar to Tom Gilbert..... 40 pts in 75 games. No you are right that is not Tom Gilbert. You would then call them overpays right? Guess that clearly means the Oilers overpays would be:
ReplyDeleteHorcoff
Souray
Khabby
Gilbert
Stortini
JDD
Fraser
Foster
JVDM
We have $7.15m parked in minors and are taking shots at Nylanders contract? sheesh!
Komrade Horcov, if you are monitoring these communications, please have KGB contacts disrupt Hunter's whiskey supply lines.
ReplyDeleteKomrade Horcov has no time for monitor message boards of internet now that he has return to Motherland after Iced Hockey Season. Is too busy overseeing erection of mighty statue in front of Kremlin. Statue depicts Great Horcov devouring skull of Capitalist Tsar Bill Clinton whilst mating with six fertile and sturdy female womans. How the West will tremble when statue's iron gaze is upon it!
Other John,
ReplyDeleteYou asked if WAS had bad contracts - they do. Most teams do.
You are a true electron and Monday morning quaterback. I understand all you previous arguments and all your future ones - the Oilers suck, their managment sucks etc etc etc.
Man if management was only as smart as you, eh?
Hunter as owner and you as GM, whooeeee, that would be a good team!
Komrade Horcov, if you are monitoring these communications, please have KGB contacts disrupt Hunter's whiskey supply lines.
ReplyDeleteKomrade Horcov has no time for monitor message boards of internet now that he has return to Motherland after Iced Hockey Season. Is too busy overseeing erection of mighty statue in front of Kremlin. Statue depicts Great Horcov devouring skull of Capitalist Tsar Bill Clinton whilst mating with six fertile and sturdy female womans. How the West will tremble when statue's iron gaze is upon it!
Is Comrade Horcov overseeing OWN erection or that of statue? Which person in statue has the erection, is possible is the skull of Bill Clinton that has erection? Is this caused by sturdy and fertile women on statue?
Shit. Slightly OT, but I thought this was the place to ask... I need a pejorative term for a Yellowknifer. Knifie? Doesn't do it for me.
ReplyDeleteDucey
ReplyDeleteIn the spirit of the kinder gentler Lowetide, I will not reply in kind.
You critiqued other organizations for their many bad contracts. I understand the reasoning behind that argument: "our guys can't be that bad, there are other organizations that also have bad contracts". That does not, however, explain why we have so many of them. One explanation may be that our management really is that bad.!! Or I may just be trying to get Lowebellini's job as GM.
Nope, pretty sure its the former.
Now at the same time you criticize the Nylander contract, you do recall another team tried to sign Nylander to a similar contract. Somebody dodged a bullet or Nylander would have been yet another Oiler contractual albatross. Course we would have been able to park over $12 million in the AHL this year. Record?
Not a GM, thanks for your confidence in me though, but Hannan and Wideman would actually look quite good on the Oilers D except .......... we are trying to lose.
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ReplyDeleteI was checking Capgeek and we can't even bury Horcov in the minors until 2013/2014 season he has a NMC. For the 2013/2014 season he doesn't have a NMC. Then strangely he has a NMC again in the last year of his deal. Hopefully they bury him in the minors for 2013/2014 season and then he retires so he is off the books both years. If we could get a full 82 games per season and get 50+ points each year out of the guy for the next 2 years I could stomach (though barely) his contract till then.
ReplyDeleteBolland has turned this into a different Hawks team.
ReplyDeleteIf OKC loses this series it won't be for lack of trying. They've outshot Hamilton every game, but Drew MacIntyre has been the difference.
ReplyDeleteOff topic but:
ReplyDelete"doba do, doba do, doba doba doba do! doba doba doba do! doba doba doba do!"
(CHI goal song)
Dennis: according to behindthenet, in 2007-08 Horcoff had the 9th hardest qualcomp, Stoll was 1st, Reasoner was 3rd.
ReplyDeleteThe offensive zonestarts were Stoll (36%) Reasoner (38%) and Horcoff (46%)
Qualteam were Horcoff (4th), Stoll (10th) , Reasoner (19th)
Horcoff had 50pts in 53 games.
Horcoff has a long history of doing his best to fill any role asked even if his skill set didn't fit
ReplyDeleteYesss. This line from the OP plus a few comments saying the same thing. Hopefully Bar Qu has been watching the Hawks / Ashley twins game tonight and has grasped a little about the square pegs / round holes discussion earlier.
Of course it helps when both of the above teams can ice 5 centres of higher quality than the square peg the Oilers try to ram into the #1 round hole. Bolland's return tonight has brought the comfort level back into the Hawks lineup. $3.375 per huh? Vs $5.5 per? Sad commentary.
As for Horcoff's contract it is as many have said, best unreferred to. Every team has a bad one or two in place and Horcoff's is the Oilers dinosaur egg. Not a killer like Campbell's by any stretch but odiferous all the same. Looks fine on a team well below the cap but slapped inside say a Chicago scenario where good players are being shed because of it? Glaring.
Piss Schanks.
ReplyDeleteCan anybody remember the last time I ate?
ReplyDeleteThank fuck for that supply line.
ReplyDeleteCongrats Hawks, too little too late, but still.
Sorry to carp about Horcoff, but having grown up with Mark Messier as the team's 2nd line centre...
ReplyDeleteObviously some of you rookie and wannabe lawyers never got to see a real hockey team wearing the Oilers colours...so don't listen to me go and ask Lowetide if the dynasty wasn't the filthiest dirtiest do anything to win team there ever was.
Reading these statistical arguments "proving" Horcoffs alleged quality continues to provide me with mirth. Like someone trying to sell yesterday's fish to someone like Gordon Ramsay.
Sure Horcoff could have played on the dynasty - on a mythical 5th line. As I recall, Adam Graves was the last cup winning 4th line centre for our heroes.
PS: I've been taking a lot of cold medication the last 2 days.
I'm watching a kid from London ON cup stacking. Man, I thought my generation wasted time.
ReplyDeleteSteve--have a banana. The rest of you are cut off for the evening. Jon Stewart is a repeat. Shhyte.
If you haven't switched back to the Kings game, LT, you probably should.
ReplyDeleteNot sure if anyone else mentioned this but Drummondville was eliminated two nights ago. Couturier got two points in the series, his team losing 4-1.
ReplyDeleteNobody exactly fighting for the first overall pick amongst the draft eligibles.
Whose left? Hamilton and Strome?
If we're drafting based on the playoffs, Hamilton should be first overall :)!!
Marincin was a Feb bday. 6 months younger and he might have been a lottery pick if you compare his stats to Hamilton's this season.
Great pass from Marleau and Setoguchi buries it in overtime.
ReplyDeleteThat's a kick in the junk for LA.
oilersfan: Huberdeau's team is still playing.
ReplyDeleteKings fans all over Penner for that lazy back checking in OT on that goal.
ReplyDelete"Losing is like breathing"
ReplyDeleteThat is why all Oilers in the new/old regime (2006 need to be systematically shown the door so's we can get a "winning is like breathing" mentality round these parts.
Damn the Corsi crap. As well as the other padded numbers.
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ReplyDeleteYeah! And we can jack 'em up on homeopathic steroids!
ReplyDeleteJust to follow up my prev posts here, after Horcoff Killed the softer minutes in 2007/08, he lost Reasoner and Stoll, whom were replaced by rookies Gagner / Cogliano / Brodziak. He led the team in qualcomp and def zonestarts.
ReplyDeleteHe dropped from 50p / 53g in 07/08 to 53p / 70g
much the same in 08/09 situationally, but his point production dropped to 36p/77g
Also, TSN really went out of their way to rip Dustin Penner on sports desk this morning.
ReplyDeleteDanny: good digging.
ReplyDeleteMaggie the Macac and a spinning wheel would be better than the current Oilers management.
ReplyDeleteUnless they planned to finish last two years in a row.
In which base, bravo. Well done.