This is Bruce Boudreau. I remember him from 74-75 when he had a monster junior season for the Toronto Marlboros. Boudreau was a small skill forward who romped to the OHA scoring championship (165 points in 69 games) and was taken 42nd overall in that summer's draft (1975, he went to Toronto). In three junior seasons he scored 365 points (in 183gp, 1.99points-per-game).Boudreau is an interesting player in that he put up exceptional numbers in pretty much every league he played in but never established himself as an NHL player. I'm a big numbers guy, but the numbers that dictated his career were 5-9, 170.
Boudreau turned pro in 75-76 and by 77-78 he was an NHL rookie, putting up 29 points for the Maple Leafs in 40 games. That's a pretty nice number, folks. Erroll Thompson was about the same size (Thompson was a speedy LW with a terrific shot) and Boudreau had a better ppg that season.
The next season he was in the AHL for the most part, beginning an impressive run of ppg's in the highest minor league. Starting in 78-79, his AHL ppg's were 1.18, 1.2, 1.45, 1.58(CHL), 1.525, 1.36 and then he went to Germany.
He returned to the AHL in 1985, and won the scoring championship in 87-88 (1.45) with a total of 116 points. He was 32. Between 1976 and 1989, Bruce Boudreau played in 779 games in the very high minors. In those games he produced 995 points (1.28).
I waited for years to see Bruce Boudreau win a major league job, but he never managed more than 40 games in a single season. Still, his final NHL numbers (141gp, 28-42-70, .496) imply that he did indeed have some ability but the size disadvantage was too much to overcome.
Bruce Boudreau can offer insight (imo) into any era of NHL prospect. He was an impact player in a very narrow view. He was one dimensional, and despite being very good at certain levels he just couldn't break through and become an NHL regular (the Leafs main centers when he was knocking at the door were Darryl Sittler, Walt McKechnie and a bunch of good looking kids from Don Ashby to Laurie Boschman) and ended up having a tremendous minor league career.
When we look at the current edition of the Oklahoma City Barons it's nice to see players with a wide range of skills. A guy like Teemu Hartikainen has size, skill and grit; it's been a helluva long time since a 20-year old Oiler prospect picked in the 6th round had a pro debut like this guy's 10-11 season.
He enjoyed a better AHL season than Kyle Brodziak (who in fairness played for a horrible AHL team as a rookie); he had a better rookie season than Jason Chimera did in the AHL; in fact, Hartikainen's rookie numbers are on par with those posted by Matt Lombardi a decade ago. I'm not saying the Finn will be a top 6 forward, but it seems like forever since the Oilers were gifted with a useful forward with size via the minor leagues.
And he's just one of many quality prospects moving through the system. What's the difference? Coaching is part of it, I'd guess. The organization has added some real AHL veterans and that's helped too, and of course the drafting seems to be better (or luckier).
Either way, there's something happening in OKC and the Edmonton Oilers are going to benefit in a big way. It's been a long time.
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Nation Radio hits the air at noon today. You can email questions to nationradio@theteam1260.com and I'd like to thank you for all the comments and questions. Among the guests scheduled for today are former Oiler Cam Connor, Jonathan Willis, Jason Gregor and Kent Wilson of Flames Nation. Hope you tune in.
the part that I could never understand with Boudreau is that in today's game he would be small. Back in his day, he certainly was a bit small, but it's not like there were lots of big hulking players like there are today.
ReplyDeleteRobinson 6'3" 220, Savard 6'3" 210, Salming 6'1" 185, Turnbull 6' 200, Orr 6' 199, Park 6' 190.
I grew up a Leafs fan cause Dad was and forever switched my loyalties to the Oilers in the fall of '79.
Shame he couldn't get a break to stay in the show.
LT, do you remember the small forward who played for the bruins in and around 1980 and was always discussed as the smallest player in the league ?
remembered .... Bobby Lalonde 5'5" 155lbs and played 641 games in the NHL with 124-210 for a total of 334 pts.
ReplyDeletecan someone explain how the Kings' pick will be decided?
ReplyDeleteIs it based on points or the actual date they get kicked out of the playoffs? So if they lose tonight do we get 15th because they were the second team out? Or do they wait until the first round is over and then rank the teams with the fewest points in the regular season to tell us who gets picked where?
Yeah, Bobby Lalonde. Remember him well. Lalonde was really small, smaller than Sheehan or Cournoyer. Tiny guy, but he could play.
ReplyDeleteoilersfan: As I understand it, the ranking is based on what round teams get flushed. If all the lower seeds are taken out in round one, nothing changes.
ReplyDeleteIf one of the lower seeds makes it to the conference finals, then their selection also moves down.
But I'm not certain of when that kicks in.
Staples says today that the Oilers should take RNH because C's develop sooner, and Couturier probably played more ES minutes - thereby accounting for his higher ES points.
ReplyDeleteHe doesn't seem to have any evidence of this extra ES time other than Red Deer is a stronger team. He cites the fact that RNH played behind a 20 yr old in the playoffs.
Seems like a pretty weak argument.
The flip side of that argument is that RNH was perhaps playing softer minutes on account of his better teammates.
Lalonde, like Cournoyer had a lot of speed and a motor that didn't quit. But it was his smarts that kept him in the league. He had great anticipation which allowed him to break up plays as they developed and used that to became an excellent PKer. His career was on the downside when he hit the Bruins; he was out of the league within a couple of years.
ReplyDeleteHe was probably most famous in my age group for being a common trivia question on the back of hockey cards for league's shortest player. I know I had a few.
Ducey...
ReplyDeleteNow I am convinced we should take Larsson.
Oilers fan: The Stanley Cup winner gets the 30th pick. The Stanley Cup runner-up gets 29th. The semi-finallists get 27th and 28th, with their regular season points determining who gets which.
ReplyDeleteAfter that, it's all regular season.
that picture looks like the latter day Boudreau but with adorning a gag wig.
ReplyDeleteThe final top 30 ranking from ISS came out yesterday. One thing that caught my eye was that after McNeil, only two forwards in the top 30 have more than a point per game.Matt Puempel, who is -33 on a terrible Peterborough team (sounds like Pouliot's draft year) and Zach philips who may be getting a lot of help from Huberdeau.
ReplyDeleteI had been excited for the Oilers to pick McNeil with the LA pick but if it is 19 I don't know who to pick if McNeil and Oleksiuk are both gone.
Any thoughts? Philips is small and Puempel is ranked 27. Who would you folks take if McNeil and Oleksiuk aren't available? Musil? I don't like taking defensive dmen that high, alway still good ones in the second round, plus you have to wait 5 years for them.
I am still hoping the LA pick can somehow get 15 (If Boston, Anaheim and Vancouver lose in the first round dos LA's pick become 16?) and still get McNeil
Boudreau looks about 12 in that picture. Holy geez.
ReplyDeleteWhat is up with Tyler Biggs? half apoint per game and he is in the top 20 ? What a joke. Sounds like Joe hUlbig, play 50 NHL games and can't score in the minors either.
ReplyDeleteOnce that angry small bald man actually had a mushroom cut and the face of the guy from mad magazine.
ReplyDeleteThis picture blows my mind
Oilersfan: I'm going to suggest something that might not be here but, it seems american team push for american players and will take them earlier than they should just because of theyr birthplace.
ReplyDeletesteve smith
ReplyDeleteAre you sure? I thought they changed the rules after Detroit lost to the Oilers in 06 and that a top ranked team will draft in the middle if they lose in the first round?
Oilersfan: Washington was in exactly that situation last year (won the President's trophy, exited first round). They picked 26th.
ReplyDeleteso is is set in stone that LA (oilers) picks 19th if they lose this round? Why does Tencer keep saying they will pick somewhere between 15-19?
ReplyDeleteso is is set in stone that LA (oilers) picks 19th if they lose this round? Why does Tencer keep saying they will pick somewhere between 15-19?
ReplyDeleteRight now, Chicago's slated to pick ahead of L.A. If Chicago makes the semi-finals, its pick will be bumped down to one of the last four, which will have the effect of bumping L.A.'s up. Basically, we should be cheering for all the playoff teams that finished below L.A. in the standings to make the final four.
Although I don't see how we can pick fifteenth - the best we can hope four is three of the aforementioned teams to make the final four (Chicago and two of Montreal, Buffalo, and the Rangers) which would have the pick sixteenth. I imagine that Tencer is just saying that a team that finishes twelfth in the league, as L.A. did can theoretically pick anywhere from fifteenth to nineteenth (or from twenty-seventh to thirtieth), without checking whether that was true of this particular season.
ReplyDeleteOh I get it. So if Montreal, Rangers, and Chicago all make the final four LA pick goes up 3 spots. Ok I get it now, thanks
ReplyDeletedon't know what Detroit was whining about in 06 then, this wouldn't have helped them anyway, although the Oilers pick that went to Minnesota would have been 29th.
ReplyDeleteI believe that was now Trevor Lewis when Minnesota traded that pick to LA.
Well, it would have bumped the Wings up from twenty-ninth to twenty-sixth, which I guess is something.
ReplyDeleteI'm betting that Oilers take Musil at 18. Obviously they're very familiar with him and that September birthday makes him almost a year younger than Larsson.
ReplyDeleteMcNeill won't make it past the Flames and Oleksiak will likely go in the top 10 before Ryan Murphy, if past drafts are any indication.
That's because, according to Blogger, he's got shize.
I posted this last night, but for those who missed it, here's the ISS Top 30.
ReplyDeleteBiggs stirring the pot.
ReplyDeleteMurphy has the C. Didn't know that.
ReplyDeleteRoss MacLean, head scout for ISS, explains how stats can deceive when evaluating prospects. For eg, he is nicking Huberdeau because he feels the Hube gets an extraordinary amount of ice time (despite any statistical evidence for his premise).
ReplyDeleteFor an insight into how ISS ranks, his article is here.
SpOiler
ReplyDeletewhat did you mean about Biggs stirring the pot?
You mean he seems highly overrated? I have seen too many big pluggers go to the NHL and do nothing. For every Lucic there are ten Hulbigs.
The thought of the Flames getting McNeil makes my skin crawl as he would be an excellent pickup for them. Exactly what they need. I hope the Oilers can trade up into the top 12 just so they can get him...
Spoiler: If he doesn't have any statistical evidence then there's a cloud over his own arguement.
ReplyDeleteThat and failing to realise your N1 ranked guy has more than 50% of production on the PP.
There seems to be 2 main flaws in this guy's logic.
ReplyDeleteA: Assuming some guys get points for absolute no reason (No skill, no physicality, no head).
B: Assuming there's never a late guy with big numbers becoming a star (Paul Stastny)
Oilersfan... I'm watching the U18 game, which is not going well for Canada.
ReplyDeletef*ck..watching fpb argue for the q while the west argues for RNH is becoming super tiring! we in the west haven't seen the Q and FPB hasn't seen the west...none of us have seen europe or the USHL...
ReplyDeletecan we stop with some of the hyperbole where we're saying things like the ISS isn't allowed to have an opinion -- you all certainly do. I'm also guessing that the ISS has a pretty good idea of TOI totals. I went to two Hitmen games this year with a significant scout presence and both times the "intern" scouts had the stop watches out. Just because we don't have all the stats, doesn't mean Stu or RLR or ISS doesn't.
Does everyone really believe that 6 or 7 out of 10 scouts think RNH is #1 because they are unaware of his statistical breakdowns?
ReplyDeleteDo you think a well written informative email regarding RNHs ES/PP splits, his goal/assist ratios and the historical significance of players height and nhl success, would shake the foundation of conventional scouting, and we would see a mass turnover in draft rankings?
It just seems unlikely that these things arent already taken into consideration, when the mass evidence suggests that scouts can accurately project hundreds of players each year, into top 5, top 10, top 30, etc, and then have their projections bare witness to careers that support the accuracy of their projections.
There's always late bloomers, busts, under scouted players, etc, but the methodology mustnt be as primitive as a lot of peoples confidence level would suggest study are.
Its possible RNH can bust, or that Couturier is hands down the best of the bunch, but there's a lot of things that will determine how this unfolds, I just don't think it will be due to ignorance.
FPB...
ReplyDeleteI don't think that's an accurate representation of MacLean's thoughts.
Woohoo! Canada gets within one.
Team Canada!
ReplyDeleteDo you think a well written informative email regarding RNHs ES/PP splits, his goal/assist ratios and the historical significance of players height and nhl success, would shake the foundation of conventional scouting, and we would see a mass turnover in draft rankings?
ReplyDeleteNo - they're too hidebound.
Jim Matheson's not a scout, but he is a hockey hall of famer who has made a career of writing about hockey. He evaluates goalies based on Stanley Cup rings. There's probably a bit more of a meritocracy in scouting than in sports journalism, I'll grant you, but I'm not inclined to grant much deference.
Now, of course, the scouts *could* have taken all of this into account, and still ranked RNH first. But it's also possible that they don't need to worry about splits, because they saw the kid's jam.
I don't know which it is, but I'm not willing to assume one way or another.
USA probably deserved that game.
ReplyDeleteDanny...
ReplyDeleteThe one thing I keep reading about RNH is his oustanding vision. From reading that MacLean article, it seems the scouts focus more on skills than numbers and that RNH has the widest range of top end skills and the most upside. And they look at the context behind counting numbers like TOI, which is a good thing. That's what we're always saying too, right? Context is key.
While Larsson would likely fill a bigger organizational hole, the feeling is that RNH is a perfect fit for Hall, and things we worry about--size, goal-scoring and EV production--will come with time.
SS: the thing is, I'm guessing seeing the kids jam, is an important aspect as well, as the draft is largely about projection, in lieu of deciphering the stats and ordering who did what.
ReplyDeleteIf we were talking about moron GMs overpaying Ryan Jones, then I buy into the jam vs stats stupidity prevalence.
With regard to scouting, seeing them good, is probably a pretty big part of their job.
I'm ok with that.
I have a hard time thinking that these guys are unaware of obvious stats like ES/PP ratios, when we are talking about anyone even close to being a consensus top 10 pick.
Danny: If guys seem blatently unaware of that in the NHL, what makes you suppose they aren't at the scouting level?
ReplyDeleteGranted, there's probably a bunch of guys who use it. But there's reasons guys like Biggs get there. Saw'em good and guts.
To me there's too much of weird things happening (The goalies, the guys with no scoring in the 1st round) each year to suggest everyone in the scouting factory takes those into account. There's absolutely terrible scouting departments (Like Minnesota's), like there's terrible GMship.
NHL is probably the sport with the less projection of all Football, Baseball and Basketball.
Scouts aren't all that accurate as you picture it. JW made some search on 3 drafts, and just drafting by numbers in the 1st round would have beaten the scouts 2 out of the 3 drafts.
While not useless, simply suggesting one is better while getting terribly outscored by the other for purposes of ''saw him good'' seems shaky enough.
Jfry: I'm not rooting for the Q. I'm rooting for the guys with numbers.
The arrogance you'd need to think you know more than every scouting agency and scouting staff because you have a calculator and the WHL stats page open is mind boggling.
ReplyDeleteAnd, I'm sorry, every scout in the world knows his ES/PP production. It's a talking point in the media, of course it will have come up.
Absolutely.
ReplyDeleteKaalyn: The arrogance to think everyone here would do a better job than Tambo.
ReplyDeleteIdk why when we switch from ''NHL GM'' to ''Scouts'' shit become touchy.
I think scouting has improved by leaps and bounds in the last decade. They are honing the science of an imperfect science as much as possible IMO, with the viewings, stats and combine etc.
ReplyDeleteThe next frontier that's lagging behind in the NHL, is the front office / management. I think this is the next renaissance on the horizon, where we see big brains, start to get the tap on the shoulder over career hockey guys.
A recent example IMO is Gillis in Vancouver, and Edmonton, much like Mexico based scouts, have no interest in being on the crest of a new wave of doing business.
Interesting mock draft f
ReplyDeleteand Couturier insights from Tom Stivali of Devil's blog In Lou We Trust.
Danny: Well I guess we'd have to wait for more recent numbers, but from 1993 to 2003, only 2 picks out of 3 panned out in the top 10.
ReplyDeleteI don't know how that compares to others but it doesn't seem like theyr especially accurate.
http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2010/01/19/the-success-rate-of-top-10-picks-is-surprisingly-low/
Nice article of JW on scouting, not as scientific as it sounds:
http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2011/01/27/pulling-back-the-curtain-on-nhl-scouting/
Idk why when we switch from ''NHL GM'' to ''Scouts'' shit become touchy.
ReplyDeleteBecause scouts get it right way more often than the GM's that get grief here.
Also, large groups of people coming to a consensus are right more often than individuals. Not infalible, but a much better track record.
You are also assuming scouts are not taking the same information into account that you are, and you have no proof of this.
Its one thing to call out v3.0 for signing JFJ, McIntyre, Strudwick etc, but quite another to say the entire scouting community, who has a good track record, are all idiots.
WG: Never said they're all idiots. Good and bad scouts. Consensus being average.
ReplyDeleteIdk, why you assume scouts ''get it'' more often. Do you have proof of this?
The only thing I saw is, a ''Calculator'' beat scouts in 2 drafts out of 3, and that ''Top 10 picks only work out at 66%, and 57 when it's OHL/WHL''.
I think a lot of anxiety comes from RNH's ranking based on very little proven performance. Honestly - you take out his March numbers - and he looks nothing like a #1 pick. It's not even a conversation. That's totally unlike Hall last year who was not my favorite - but the record was undeniable. If RNH backed up the March spurt with a stellar playoffs then many more people would feel comfortable - but fact is - he didn't. So picking him #1 is all about projection - not proven performance - and that's risky and based on opinions which can be biased or just flat out wrong. He may have a lot of upside - but he also has a lot of risk attached to him - and that's not really what you want with a #1.
ReplyDeleteThe thing with scouting reports is that they use subjective measures. The scouts say Hopkins has "on-ice vision" and "hockey sense", and I say that he's too small, gets shut down when facing larger opposition and plays on the perimeter.
ReplyDeleteThe facts are that Hopkins points from goals ratio will be the worst in the last 20 years if he goes first overall, and only marginally better than Jason Bonsignore.
waties: we'll have to waties for Larsson to develop.
1993-2003 it was acceptable to have your head scout living in Mexico.
ReplyDeleteThings have changed.
That said, 70% of skaters taken top 10 in that segment of the dark ages, are 500+ gp nhlers. Considering the fact that these stats can only creep downward from 100% since anyone falling out of the NHL due to injury or off the board GMs, 70% isn't an entirely damning statistic.
Surely not enough to make me think the probability of scouts knowing Nugents ES/PP splits don't fall heavily in the category of duh.
I love draft talk!
ReplyDeleteDanny: Not suggesting they're ALL unaware. But certainly some.
ReplyDeletebased on performance in junior Taylor Hall represents and "average" #1 pick and Sid Crosby represents a top end #1 pick - what does that make RNH? I don't like the answer...
ReplyDeleteOvechkin with a beauty.
ReplyDeleteDanny:
ReplyDeletePlaying Devil's Advocate - I know public perception can be an issue. And if Fraser being based in Mexico was part of the reason the Oilers had poor drafting at that time, then yes it's a problem that needed to be corrected. But did one cause the other, or did they just happen to have poor scouting at the same time they had a head scout in Mexico? I truly don't know.
If your head scout is based in India, but gets results, does anyone care? If Barry Fraser had picked Doan instead of Kelly, Gagne instead of Henrich, and Havlat instead of Rita, does it matter where he's based?
Asia: People have been talking about this being a weak draft for a few years. Now the consensus has shifted toward this being a deep draft through 50 picks but without the high-end talent at the top.
ReplyDeleteI think the fact that there are 5-7 players that could defensibly go first overall reflects that lack of a quality first overall prospect.
We should probably all be tempering our expectations. It is far more likely that RNH is PM Bouchard than Joe Sakic. It is also far more likely that Couturier is Danius Zubrus than Mikko Koivu.
It's not a great draft. We should be lucky if we get a top flight player with our first pick.
And I should probably rephrase "poor scouting" into "poor draft results".
ReplyDeleteWell, RNH has done well when on the same ice surface as the other guys. He was the best player at the Top Prospects game, clearly better than team mate Huberdeau. Of course that game comes from the Land Of Small Sample Sizes when taken by itself.
ReplyDeletePJO...
As the link to THN ISS blog above describes, scouts aren't as concerned with counting numbers as we are. They see skill and talent in RNH they don't see in the other guys. The March vs Feb numbers don't sway them that much, nor do the ratios.
I'm not saying I'm convinced about RNH; I would prefer to keep an open mind about the top pick rather than pick a favorite and defend him against all-comers. Hub still has some hockey to play as does Strome & Hamilton. And then there's the combine. But the view that RNH is clearly the top prospect has been getting stronger by the week. He might not be the two way guy with size Couturier is, but he's a much more dynamic player, which probably suits the Oiler style a little more closely.
So to a certain degree it is a matter of taste... would you rather have a Jordan Staal two way type or a Pat Kane speedy play-making type? Myself, I prefer goal-scoring and a plus plus shot.
And from all the talk of how the Oilers think RNH will open up the ice for Hall, I would guess that Hemsky will not be with this team long. The kids are the future and building the right culture seems to be the over-riding philosphy. Guys who are first on and first off at practice, despite their skill and 2006 heroics will apparently be escorted from the VIP balcony and shown the door in the name of building a winning culture.
Spoiler: Couturier seems to have the ''Jordan Staal'' upside praise, but with much better scoring.
ReplyDeleteMaybe he's close to Eric than Jordan. Or a hybrid.
I think there's a scouting bias we are seeing with RNH that we've discussed in the past. That is, sometimes scouts will see skill and talent in a player that is physically underdeveloped, and they will perhaps think that the player will become that much better as he physically matures.
ReplyDeleteIs that something that is occurring with RNH? We don't know for sure, but I suspect it.
Is there actually an effect from growth like that? Probably, but I have no idea how we would quantify it and separate it from the natural growth and improvement that players show in their developmental years. It'll be interesting to follow RNH's career for that reason alone, regardless of where he lands.
cocalike
speeds: results trumps all for sure, but I think the Fraser situation is illustrative of disparity between the emphasis and the sophistication that drafting has evolved since the older days.
ReplyDeleteMacGregor was citing the number of viewings hes had for the top 6 ranked players. Theyve seen these guys a lot. Not to mention the advancements in technology, with internet and video making the scouting world even more plugged in.
Look at the respective records of Barry Fraser and Stu MacGregor.
heres an excerpt from a Lowetide blog at ON re Fraser:
# Number of Blown Lottery picks: 3
Jason Bonsignore, Steve Kelly, Boyd Devereaux. Devereaux was a better player than the other two but not close to being a value pick for #6 overall. They all took place in a three year period and were devastating to the organization.
# Number of blown first rounders: 8
All but Ryan Smyth. They are: Jason Bonsignore, Steve Kelly, Boyd Devereaux, Matthieu Descoteaux, Michel Riesen, Michael Henrich, Jani Rita, Alexei Mikhnov. Hey, anyone can make a mistake, but this looks like someone is drafting from Mexico.
# Overall grade 94-00: Epic fail.
Anyone paying attention (and we were) had to know something was wrong in the organization that allowed such poor results.
If Shawn Horcoff played in the CHL nobody on here would know who he was because he didn't lead the league in scoring.
ReplyDeleteJon k...
ReplyDeleteThat's possible, but I thought we were a fan of later birthdays around these parts? SC has a 6 month head start on RNH. RNH has the height, he just needs the core strength and his man shoulders. Same with Huberdeau. They both skate exceptionally well despite being somewhat underdeveloped. They're not likely to regress in that area.
Vision and smarts are unaffected by physical development and these two have these qualities in spades.
Spoiler: Huberdeau and RNH aren't getting rocked despite their small size in Junior.
ReplyDeleteWhat will change in the NHL? Even if they fill their body both will still have the same relative stature.
Their ''Potential'' from that, only makes them average again.
Gagner's NHLEs can show you how counting stats can skew the picture. Weren't they higher than Hall's were? And last year weren't we saying we're not getting a high end pick cause neither Taylor nor Tyler had better NHLEs?
ReplyDeleteDo we still think the same way about Hall now?
Should we be so insistent to downgrade these kids on the same basis?
Jon - yeah I agree - feels like 2002 without Nash - lots of NHL players that year but none were elite except for Nash until Keith came out of nowhere. All this RNH = Sakic stuff is nonsense past the hometown - PM Bouchard is a better comp. We best temper our enthusiasm and I would be tempted to trade down or out if I had any confidence in the mgmt team to not totally screw it up.
ReplyDeletesPoiler: I don't know that we're disagreeing. I think you're describing the effect I'm referring to. Scouts see RNH's skill and vision, they note his youth relative to his draft class and see that he is very physically underdeveloped right now. It's tempting to infer that he'll get all that much better once he physically catches up to his peers.
ReplyDeleteI'm suggesting that perhaps this explains the scouts' love for RNH despite the fact that his numbers aren't spectacular. They are boosting him on potential that he could reach with physical maturity.
Spoiler:
ReplyDeleteTwo Asterisks, Gagner is smaller, and played for a rocking club.
Yup, Jon, agreed. "Bias" probably had me infer more negativity than was intended. My bad.
ReplyDeleteGiven his weight and how the scouts see him as ''more things ahead than now'', is it a given RNH should stay in Junior?
ReplyDeleteChimera's hands have not become softer with age.
ReplyDelete"If Shawn Horcoff played in the CHL nobody on here would know who he was because he didn't lead the league in scoring."
ReplyDeleteQuoted for truth, though I'm pretty sure I like Horcoff a lot more than Traktor.
Horcoff was a pretty dominant college player, but I get the point.
ReplyDeleteSame idea, flip side, I doubt many here have the tools to predict why guys like Daniel Corso scores 120 points his draft year, and is an apt 9th round pick.
FPB: Hall didn't play for a rockin club? Seems to me the team might have won a couple of things. And the negative comparison was made last year, that being more to the point. We're going to get a good player... likely the best available.
ReplyDeleteThe thing about Hall was despite the difference in counting stats, his natural size, skills and abilities had scouts projecting him a lot higher. And you're right, Gagner was nicked for his linemates and not being the best 18 yo on his line. Which is all kinda the point of the ISS article that you disagreed with earlier. So, which is it? Can you see why scouts feel that way about RNH?
Spoiler: I can see. I don't agree.
ReplyDeleteWhile they both had a ''rocking club'' their line scored a lot more.
He was the 3rd on a line that scored incredibly, and by 20 points. You could also argue Gagner is better than the kids drafted ahead of him.
Hall was the first of his club 25 points, and was the first of his draft class. Hall had no goals/points or ES/PP issues either. He was good and he had upside.
RNH isn't the first of his draft class. Altough he does outplay his teamates so do all the others.
I don't think the comparison of Hall vs Gagner can apply to RNH vs the rest.
Horcoff was drafted 99th overall so you knew he was gonna be good!!
ReplyDeleteFPB...I'd post the same comment again, but I doubt it would make any difference.
ReplyDeleteSame here.
ReplyDeleteIn brief it's:
You could argue context could bring Gagner's stats at the same level, or below Hall's.
With the same stats you would go for Hall because of upside.
Now you can argue context brings RNH under the others. Which is not the same case, as if they were all tied and he had the upside. In this case i'd be the same.
Haha.. good line Traktor..
ReplyDelete(Im painted w the same brush, but dont care..)
One general question I have is why people are putting the 'Dmen take too long to develop' label on a Larsson pick.. Isnt he the best bet for coming in and making a difference next year - nevermind with a couple more years..
weird draft this one is..
Even if the Oilers don't trade to move up with that second pick, I doubt Musil is going to be there at 18.
ReplyDeleteI also think it's ironic that some are down on Larsson with the reason that he'll need time to develop and at the same time prefer RNH, even though he won't be able to do half of what he does now if he plays at his size in the NHL next year.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@ Oilersfan, I am late to the party, but I take Puempel
ReplyDeleteAnd that's why I disagree. Because I think RNH's ''Upside'' would only help him catch up, instead of putting him ahead.
ReplyDeleteOr we just move up by trading Hemsky and then draft both Couturier and Huberdeau, and call it a day for drafting centermen.
ReplyDeleteAnother option is to go all Swedish and draft Landeskog and Klefbom. Larsson and Klefbom?
Ooo. I do like the idea of Landeskog and Klefbom.
Dennis: I love draft talk!
ReplyDeleteOK, how about some free agent talk?
Here's my idea (though I think someone must have already brought it up since it's so obvious): Ville Leino
Really, really skilled guy who came to the NHL late and had the misfortune of starting with two teams stacked with formidable collections of forwards.
He's already 27 and his last contract is only 800K, so I'm guessing that, more than anything, he's looking for payday.
I think this is something that the Oilers can offer plus a chance to get top minutes at EV and PP. Say 3.5M for 2 years so that he gets a chance to parlay that into something bigger 2 seasons down the road.
He's the lefty and officially listed as a LW. I think he'll look fabulous with Hemsky.
That is, sometimes scouts will see skill and talent in a player that is physically underdeveloped, and they will perhaps think that the player will become that much better as he physically matures.
ReplyDeleteThere is more to it. Otherwise, a guy like Jordan Weal would not fall to the 4th round.
RNH isn't that small anyways. He's 6"1 and should be able to get to the 175-185 lb range this summer. By all accounts, is responsible defensively and has great vision/play-making skills.
While I agree that there is no Taylor Hall this draft, there is reason to believe Nugent-Hopkins will be a true number 1 centre. Something we haven't consistently had since Weight. When 6 out of 7 scouts say they would rather take RNH over Seguin, you have to as least acknowledge a possibility of something special brewing.
There are question marks for all of the contenders for 1st overall. Larsson (lack of offense), Couturier (foot speed), Landeskog (only a 1.2 PPG - questionable upside), Huberdeau (inflated totals on a strong team). With a relatively large consensus (6 out of 10 on Bob McKenzie's list have RNH at 1st overall), I don't see any good reason to go against the grain, especially with all the competitors projected to have lower upside.
___________
With regards to the 19th overall, I suspect the Oilers want local boy Mark McNeil (I assume he's local - based on hockeydb). He probably doesn't make it past 13. The Oilers have made whispers about moving down - I'm fully content with that. 19 + 31 + Cogliano for a top 13 pick is okay with me. History indicates it's a coin flip in the 19 range, and a loaded dice at 31. Being aggressive at the draft usually pays out. Last decent example would be San Jose and Couture
The Sharks acquired the 9th overall selection from the St. Louis Blues in exchange for the 13th overall selection in 2007 (acquired previously from Toronto), a second round selection in 2007 (44th overall, previously acquired from Toronto) and a third round selection in the 2008 NHL Entry Draft.
_____________
Re: Musil - definitely not at 18. Just doesn't bring enough offence. Wasting development years to develop a best case Steve Staios is counter-productive under this CBA.
Matheson indicated the Oilers backup plan if Eberle was picked before 22, was to select Tyler Cuma.
Shudder.
What a beaut the Boston Montreal game is so far.
ReplyDeleteBoudreau and the Boys took out the Rags. I, being the smartest hockey mind on earth am shocked that my choice, the Rangers, didn't win.
ReplyDeleteIt must be someone else's fault because I don't want people to think I'm full of shit.
Sumoil
ReplyDeletehow about Saad or Boone Jenner?
Puempel seems like a good scorer but had hip injuries and reminds me of Lupul in the scouting reports. Was compared to Ryder. Not sure that is what we need. A scorer sure but grit and tenacity to go with the other young guns is needed more IMO with #19. If we can't get McNeil Saad is who I want based on his early season ranking in the top 7 by BM
Any OHL experts here who can chime in on Saad or Jenner? Thanks
Saad is falling. Didn't even manage a point per game, and was 5th in team scoring. He's dropping, and a huge red flag.
ReplyDeleteIt's quite saad, actually.
seems to me other than a centre we can all agree this team needs grit and size with a decent level of skill. That seems to be the way the NHL is going, even Vancouver didn't have a tough guy. Hell the flames didn;t either after game 1 last season, just a couple of middleweights.
ReplyDeleteHow about 4 scoring line, with 2 skill players and player with skill on each line, all 4 lines being able to play in your own end, like the Cdn Olympic team?
RNH-Eberle-Saad
Gagner-Hall-Pitlick (winger)
Horcoff-Hemsky-Paajarvi
Lander-Omark-Hartski
That lineup has skill and size on every line. Of course by the time Saad and Pitlick play Hemsly and Horc will be goners.
Maybe Hemsky can be traded for the Dman we will need
should have been 2 players with skill and one bigger player with grit/some skill
ReplyDeleteSaad is falling, but my point is yes he isn't top ten but could be a skilled grinder who is a legitimate top 20 to grind, hit and even protect.
Saad played on the US WJHC team no?
SB: Wtf is wrong with you. I never said my life depended on that. I barely mentionned it wtf.
ReplyDeleteMcKenzie has Huberdeau at "#4 with a bullet"
ReplyDeleteYou can bet the Oilers will take RNH.
They'll "stualize" it
Huberdeaus draft buzz is reminiscent of Kopitar in 2005
ReplyDeletePotulny making some noise in the A: http://theahl.com/stats/player.php?lang_code=en&id=1397 I didn't think he was all that hot, but given the parlous state that our roster was in again this year, maybe he could have helped?
ReplyDeleteRick and PJO:
ReplyDeletere: Musil @18
ISS rank: 21
CSS rank: 38 N. Am. Skater
BobM rank: 27
Rick, from those rankings, I'd say there's a pretty good chance he's still there at 18.
PJO, with that Sept 93 Bday we can NHLE him as a 17 yo to get an idea of his top end upside. From what I've heard he had been asked to focus on the defensive side of the puck this season. He has the most mature body in the draft other than Larsson and Oleksiak. He plays with a mean edge, pummelled Siemens in the Top propsect game, and has delivered offensively at every level. He may end up being the best full package D in the draft (*may*). And after taking RNH, we will be looking for a Dman with a wide range of skills. Oleksiak, Murphy, Siemens and possibly Morrow will all be gone by then.
No one out there is comping Musil to Staios. Where do you get this crap?
As for the McNeill idea, it's unlikely he makes it past the Flames, so you're going to need the COL 11th overall at the least. No way is someone going to take our 18th and miss out on a shot at McNeill or Oleksiak or Murphy.
I had hoped for one of these three too but their draft stock is too high.
Trades in the draft are tough to pull off with quality still on the board. I'd be thinking more about who might be available at 18 instead. Puempel and his plus shot is another possibility as SumOil pointed out. I think the Oil will key on a Dman though, if they take RNH as the rumours say.
Bunz is a putting on a show in the Hat, btw. Ice have 28 shots halfway through the match and only a 1-0 lead.
ReplyDeleteI just jinxed him. 2-0:
ReplyDeleteThank you, Mr. Horton.
ReplyDelete2010 draft is tracking quite nicely.
ReplyDeleteWoodlief's April RLR is out... Light on details and no change to the top 8, IIRC. Landeskog still #1, RNH #2, Larsson #3.
ReplyDeleteScheifele the bigger mover after a solid U18.
Spoiler: I think he got that crap from:
ReplyDeleteHe regressed offensively and posted way inferior numbers to Staios offensively. His numbers don't suggest offense. That and he blew in the playoffs.
It's quite saad, actually
ReplyDeleteThis hasn't gotten nearly enough love yet.
Schitzo: Agreed.
ReplyDeleteMusil had a foot injury for two months. Same thing happened to Larssen's offense with his groin. And I still haven't heard anyone use the comp "Staios".
ReplyDeleteCorrection on his Bday though: April 9, not Sept 4. Hazards of site-hopping and the lack of a date convention. Still a nice birthday though.
At 18, he's in the conversation with the other two M defencemen: Morrow and Mayfield.
Even if. If you take off his injury he probably would have been at the same pace as last year.
ReplyDelete0,5 PPG in Junior usually doesn't lead to that much offense in the NHL.
Btw, did you hear? Smid was asked to focus on defense.
Ashley: We Mustn't throw away our chance at happiness.
ReplyDeleteNot only am I willing to talk about Lowetide all day long if you want,
also, re Horcoff/ + contract I'll be happy to sign the online petition with you that says We Love Horcoff, He's the Captain.
Happy Easter :)
lol @ Boudreau.
ReplyDeleteHabs the better team, I pick them to win next at home.
Caps, Wings through, resting up the way champions usually do this early.
Sharks a dark horse as always. Canucks what is there left to write: they're literally counting off every second like a condemned prisoner, until next game Sunday night.
And if the Hawks win this one at home...this will forever haunt their fans. Canuck message boards are in meltdown.
Hunter1909 officially announces he's fine with either Nugent-Hopkins or Larsson.
hello to :)
*tank Oilers 2012 fan*
Okay I'm sorry that's uncalled for.
ReplyDeleteBut yeah I don't get how ''focusing on D'' would somehow make your PP go down (Because that's where defensemen get the majority of theyr points)
Eakin with three points as the Ice suffocate the Tigers into a 3-0 submission, finishing them off with an empty-netter. Bunz stops 36 of 38. Czerwonka with another solid game.
ReplyDeleteThe Ice are a very well-coached team with a lot of structure to their play. Tigs could use Pitlick.
Eakin with three points
ReplyDeleteEvery time someone praises Stu MacGregor, I look back to the third round of the 2009 entry draft.
Hesketh at 71 - complete bust, and taken far too early
Abney at 82 - he could have went undrafted IMO.
Cody Eakin (centre) - 85th overall
But yeah I don't get how ''focusing on D'' would somehow make your PP go down.
ReplyDeleteThat's a good point.
The numbers show Musil with limited upside. I entirely subscribe to Jim Rutherford's theory of not drafting defencemen in the first round.
PJO: Agreed. Just last year a lot of interesting d-men in the 2nd round.
ReplyDeletePetrovic, Faulk, Merill, Marincin.
4 guys tracking like 1st rounders in that 2010 second round.
That play should have been whistled dead.
ReplyDelete- Kevin Weekes
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=118248
ReplyDeleteTy Rattie?
PJO: He's an ES dominator. Damn right.
ReplyDeleteBig icetime probably went to Johansen and co.
Could be a hidden gem with Sven.
If the Barons lose tomorrow or Monday will Omark be playing for Sweden? Also, any word on Larrson?
ReplyDeleteMy god, we're criticizing scouts for missing 3rd round hidden gems now?
ReplyDeleteSpoiler: More like critizing them for taking guys who had no chance to make it (Or be useless at best) instead of guys with some chances.
ReplyDeleteThere'S no justificiation for Abney or Hesketh.
Cody Eakin projects to be a Liam Reddox type of player.
ReplyDeleteJust as wasteful as drafting a bust is drafting a dime/dozen player that is available for free every UFA period or on the waiver wire.
The goal should be to draft players that aren't usually available via free agency.
At the time Edmonton management thought Hesketh could grow to 6'7 + because his dad and brothers were both 6'8.
You can't just judge a pick on whether it pans or not. Some picks aren't going to work out but if you keep drafting under the same philosophy over an extended period of time then it should turn out well in the end.
Following the threads it looks like Larson might be the safest way to avoid a bust.
ReplyDeleteThere seems to be a lot of second guessing what we think the Oil will do at #1
It is almost like buyers regret when you make a big purchase.
They should just take the BFA
Best Finn Available
Zibenejad and Rask playing on same line. Zib with a big hit already.
ReplyDeleteSwedes looking good against 5-0 USA Team that has won the past two golds.
ReplyDelete1-0 on a goal by 2012 eligible Forsberg.
Seth Jones is huge, but he's playing like he's one of the youngest guys on the ice, which he is.
ReplyDeleteTraktor: That doesn't make any sense.
ReplyDeleteHow the fuck is a guy projecting for 104 points over a total season related to Liam Reddox?
Abney and Hesketh will be at best ECHL plumbers.
Eakin had a stellar season and has a shot at being a top 6 in the NHL. No link whatsoever.
Lowetide, the new HFBoards.
ReplyDeleteYakupov with two highlight reel breakway goals and a third from the slot against Canada. Speed, hands... could be a Taylor v. Tyler thing between him and Grigorenko for the 2012 draft.
ReplyDeleteIn the two games, I've seen him play, I love this JT Miller kid. Big, skates like the wind and has a rocket for a shot. He has to be ahead of Biggs and a possibility at 18.
ReplyDeleteKlefblom is one smart cookie. Making the right play every time he touches the puck.
ReplyDelete3-1 Sweden, Bjorklund trailing into the slot on a 3 on 2.
Capitals/Penguins/Sabres all going strong- meanwhile just forget the Bruins, Bolts, Habs, Flyers, bye bye to Rangers(lol).
ReplyDeleteEveryone will be lining up to run the Nucks out of the rink.Built for the regular season, lol, the Sedins can't cope with the heavy Canadian-style playoff hitting.
Connor Murphy wires a high slapper on a nice play from Grimaldi, and the US are back in it. Murphy showing he deserves 1st round consideration.
ReplyDeleteTraktor with one of the most sane non-hyperbloic posts in the thread.
ReplyDeleteIts Bizzaro L.T
Fpb,
You are awful sure of things that even my magic 8 ball can't figure out.
And Boucher ties it up. 3-3 late in the 3rd.
ReplyDeleteJust having a look at that 1993 Arnott draft and a lot of beauties taken in the lower rounds:
ReplyDeleteDarcy Tucker
Andrew Brunette
Pavol Demitra
Kimmo Timonen
Scott Nichol
Some of these players stayed overseas for 4 or more years, and some of these guys spent a long time in the AHL before becoming full time NHL pros.
A look at the career path of say, Andrew Brunette, should at least give some hope to a guy like Alexandre Giroux.
I think Boudreau just didn't find a niche for his skill set. A guy like Scott Nichol, a 5'8" player from Edmonton Alberta, remains a seasoned pro despite his size disadvantage due to his renowned faceoff abilities.
@FPB: The Oilers obviously see something in Abney as they gave him an ELC. Though that blows my mind because guys like Czerwonka and Rajala have more than earned that ELC ahead of him. Hell, if Jacques has a job then Abney shouldn't have one, and vice versa. They are the same player, except Jacques has an injury history and Abney doesn't.
ReplyDelete@Spoiler: He might be a great pick with that LA 1st if we can't move up.
Pronger dressed to play this afternoon, for you bettor types.
ReplyDelete@FPB: I'm actually confident that Bigos will play in the NHL before Hesketh.
ReplyDeleteGrimaldi drives the net and draws a penalty against Klefblom, who has a wonderful game otherwise.
ReplyDeleteUSA wins Gold. Too bad for Sweden who out-played them most of the game.
ReplyDeleteConnor Murphy with his 2nd of the game. After an injury filled season, he shows well on the biggest stage.
RT
ReplyDeleteIf the plan is RNH at 1 OV, I suspect the Oilers will take a defenceman at 18. But Miller does look like he would be a nice pickup.
WG: Well maybe Abney will play in the NHL. But he'l probably look like Macintyre.
ReplyDeleteHesketh is probably one of the worst players in his entire draft.
1 Point and -13 as a 19 years old in the USHL.
SPoiler: He does look nice. Only question mark would be goal scoring... only 3 goals.
As the RLR said. If there's not a lot of separation between 20 and 50, i'd look for a guy like Miller with the 2nd round pick.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure there's plenty of guys lacking scoring with a bit of grit will still be available at that point.
I'd go for trading up and getting a high fly prospect.
Hesketh and Abney were bad picks without the benefit of hindsight. Said it then, and repeating it now.
ReplyDeleteAbney is a guy with nominal upside - you don't draft a guy like him, let alone in the third round. Likewise, Hesketh had proven nothing to date, and the only reason selected that high was due to bloodlines/genetics? You don't take a guy like him that, with Eakin (point per game centre in draft year) having a higher upside is available.
Absurd.
@Spoiler: I wasn't talking about Miller I was talking about Klefblom!
ReplyDeleteI can see him turning into a Jiri Fischer type. A useful shutdown guy with some offensive upside.
As Ghostbuster always says, Bigos will be the next Matt Greene!
ReplyDelete@FPB: Hesketh to go to the WHL next year.
ReplyDeletehttp://noalibisnoregrets.blogspot.com/2011/01/hesketh-no-longer-committed-to.html
Traktor with one of the most sane non-hyperbloic posts in the thread.
ReplyDeleteIts Bizzaro L.T
Hehe, I was thinking the same thing.
~Stupid scouts. They should have know Linden Vey was going to be the best player in rounds 2-4. I knew it all the time. Morons.~
Ducey: We're not saying anything of that.
ReplyDeleteJust that those picks had abysmal chances of panning out from the beginning in rounds where they'res still good odds of getting a player.
Sheesh.
ReplyDelete~Stupid scouts. They should have know Linden Vey was going to be the best player in rounds 2-4. I knew it all the time. Morons.
Nothing like using hyperbole in an attempt to win an argument.
It is not sound strategy to select players with very limited upside, and easily replaceable in the UFA market.
That's all the argument is.
Now had they taken Rajala in the 3rd round, I could live with that because the upside was there. Even if he ends up playing the same number of games in the NHL as Abney - nil.
Yeah. What is there to "develop" in a guy like Abney that must be done at the expense of a draft pick?
ReplyDeleteThe whole point of drafting is to have a few years of protected development and/or having first dibs at a player at that spot. That means you see potential in that player that must be pushed further that is worth protecting with the pick.
I heard that the Oilers jumped on Abney because other teams were interested in drafting him. K, sure, but lots of Abneys available in every draft.
Lots of Abneys you can sign as CHL UFA's.
ReplyDeletePlus. Why would you want to develop one when most effective players of Abney's type are veterans? I'd rather have Tom Kostopoulos.
ReplyDeleteWhy would you develop one when you can trade a less pick for a finished guyé
ReplyDeleteIt's kind of like LT was saying over at ON about Czerwonka. It's worth drafting and following for guys who have upside and something to "develop" into. Kind of like a draft-and-follow. But third round for a guy like Abney? What is there to follow?
ReplyDeleteI would've drafted Foligno ahead of Abney based on bloodlines alone.
I still wouldn't give up a 3rd round pick for Cody Eakin.
ReplyDeleteI think his absolute ceiling is Darren Helm, in which case he would be worth the pick, but I think more realistically he is Liam Reddox.
Liam Reddox draft year: 68 31 33 64
Cody Eakin draft year: 54 24 24 48
Liam Reddox went on to put up 82 points the year after being drafted and then has had great success in the AHL (65 16 28 44) and (37 18 15 33).
How much has that translated to the NHL?
Liam Reddox has 6 goals in 100 NHL games.
Garth Snow picked up two 30 goal scorers on waivers in the last two years alone. It isn't like there is a shortage of prospects that would somehow make Cody Eakin an attractive option.
Traktor:
ReplyDeleteJust saying he's Reddox is stupid.
You could name a bunch of other prospects who went the other way and became useful players.
Reddox had a good season after his draft year but dropped to PPG on his last season.
Eakin continued his progression with 105 projected points.
You could as well say he's Matthew Lombardi and expect he's going to be a useful NHL player for it.
ReplyDelete@Traktor: It's a crime that Grabner went on waivers. A greater crime that the Oilers didn't drop Jacques to pick him up.
ReplyDelete@FPB: I always like Matthew Lombardi. In fact, I think Cogliano is tracking in this fashion. In Edmonton this seems like a poor investment since he was a 1st round pick and Lombardi was a 7th turned 3rd. But I think at this point Lombardi would be a suitable future for Cogs.
Too bad. I wanted Cogs to be Bure lite for a very long time. But I'll settle for Lombardi v2.
"Just saying he's Reddox is stupid."
ReplyDeleteAssuming Cody Eakin will be better than Reddox is just as stupid.
"You could name a bunch of other prospects who went the other way and became useful players."
"Useful" can be found every free agency period. If your goal is to draft as many 6's, 7's and 8's as possible your going to have mediocre hockey team because the J's, Q's and K's don't make it to free agency.
"Reddox had a good season after his draft year but dropped to PPG on his last season."
Yeah because Steve Downie took all his PP time. Is Larsson a shitty prospect because Runblad took his PP time and points?
"Eakin continued his progression with 105 projected points."
Cody Eakin was the best option in the CHL. That isn't going to be the case in the NHL - it will be his other "tools" besides his offense that will determine whether or not he carves out a career in the NHL.
RT, agreed, Klefblom is a definite possibility at 18. He looked very good today--big, smart, great skater and he unveiled a whippet of a slap shot... and I believe Tambellini was there Live and In Colour. I would be happy with that slection.
ReplyDeleteTraktor:
ReplyDeleteWe're not assuming anything. It's called a prospect.
Not a lot of guys want to come to EDM. You must have noticed. IF it's so easy having useful guys how come we haven't had a lot of those since 2006?
NEver said Reddox was not a good prospect for that. + If you look at Peterborough's depth chart he was still well in the top 6.
What makes you think it's IMPOSSIBLE for Eakin to become top 6?
C-Stride: Leino seems like a good idea but the only caution is him and the Flyers had some contract talks early on and I think he was looking for quite a bit of money.
ReplyDeleteStill, a good idea from you and it was nice to read it in amongst all the rest of this stuff.
I know most people here - at least for now - only care about teenaged horseflesh but the Barons are having a devil of a time scoring today.
ReplyDeletecrotine: acne medication...for your crotch.
Traktor v. FPB...
ReplyDeleteMountain meet improvable object (ions).
What's in tall guys who can't play hockey you can't find in FA?
ReplyDeleteCanada and Russia on TSN2 for those who want to watch the Yakupov show between OT periods.
ReplyDeleteThe Buffalo - Philly game has been fantastic.
ReplyDeleteThe playoffs also seem to have awakened my long dormant Philly hate. I almost forgot that I once hated these guys as much I later hated Dallas.
Yeah. I've been cheering for Buffalo because they remind me of the late 90's early 00's Oilers with the exception of Vanek (we didn't have a player like this back then).
ReplyDeleteLeino is a force right now though. Hartikainen might be one of these guys some day.
Damn
ReplyDeleteRegardless if my team wins or not. This spring has been one of the best ones yet.
ReplyDeleteSome thrilling series out there.
I wonder how high we can get with a package involving Hemsky.
ReplyDeleteBeware, I'm about to do some serious armchair GM'ing.
I'd trade Hemsky + prospect for a top 5 pick + 3rd round pick. Then I'd trade Gagner + next year's 2nd round pick + 3rd round pick + decent prospect for Paul Stastny.
We could then package LA's 1st and our this year's 2nd round pick for a higher pick + lower round pick, if necessary.
My picks would be Landeskog, Couturier and either McNeill or Klefblom.
Hall - Stastny - Eberle
Paajarvi - Horcoff - Omark
Hartikainen - VVV - Landeskog
Jones - Cogliano - Brule
Reddox
Giroux
Whitney - Gilbert
Foster - Petry
Peckham - Smid
Vandermeer
Dubnyk
Khabibulin
RT: Seems fine. If Davidson, Blain and Marincin come in a hurry!
ReplyDelete@FPB: I like Blaine and Davidson a lot. Hell, I'd trade Plante in a heartbeat if Marincin was ready to go.
ReplyDeleteYeah. It's still doable stuff.
ReplyDeleteBut considering the forwards bubbling under (Hamilton, Martindale, Czerwonka etc) I'd take a crack at a defenseman with that middle 1st.
Also not so sure about VVV's sustainability. He's been notoriously bad in OKC.
You could swap him out for any one of O'Marra or Moran or Lander or a veteran UFA stopgap. Plus, Stortini has been playing center for Barons, according to the website lol. I hope someone can confirm or deny this for me who has been following the series.
ReplyDeleteAlso, if it was up to me I'd bring McDonald up full time but in reality probably neither Giroux or McDonald will get cups of tea.
Also, I'd rather trade for impact defensemen. Unless Hamilton is someone still available (a la the Fowler effect) I'd stick to drafting forwards until we get to the Klefbloms.
ReplyDeleteAlmost all of the impact defensemen the Oilers have had in the last decade have come via trade. Even the ones that came up through the system.
Nice Dorothy Hamill hair-do.
ReplyDeleteJeebus, he's better off bald.
I know there's a 13 year old somewhere that you fellows should be talking about but allow me to interrupt for a second to report that Luongo isn't playing tonight.
ReplyDeleteDennis: I saw a very tall man at the gym. Seemed young. Maybe he plays hockey?
ReplyDeleteOn a more serious note : Injury or getting the hook?
Is it Cory Schneider's time to shine?
ReplyDeleteyou'd have to think that Luongo's hurt and there was that play in G4 from when Bickell threw the puck in his skates from on the boards and at a very poor angle.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it's been talked about here but I read in one of the Chi dailies that the Hawks were using the approach of shooting on Luongo's glove that was first pioneered by the US team during the last Olys.
I imagine that if that's the way things have been going then this move will throw the Hawks off just a little bit.
I love watching games in Chicago. Between the new rink lights, the old horn, the madhouse, their goal song, vince Vaughn, and women wearing Indian pigtails...
ReplyDeleteDudes probably the only anthem singer that compares to Lorieau.
ReplyDeleteThat wasn't Kane's best move on the breakaway coming out of the box, but it was still a nice save by Schneider.
ReplyDeleteBolland with the payback hit on Hamhuis, frees up the puck and the Pat McLean's even it up.
ReplyDeleteIf I were a betting man, I'd wager Hughson drives a hybrid, and can easily distinguish between the smell of Daniel or Henriks farts.
ReplyDeleteLucky effin bounce.
ReplyDeleteCongratulations to the Nashville Predators, their fans, and their long-forbearing coach Barry Trotz.
ReplyDeleteIf I were a betting man, I'd wager Hughson drives a hybrid, and can easily distinguish between the smell of Daniel or Henriks farts.
ReplyDeleteAwesome.
I was one of 3 in the office pool who picked NAS to beat the ANA.
Thaks to those around here who told me to trust the goal diff stat above all else in picking playoff winners.
Glad to see NAS win a playoff series after having their best year at the gate. Fine people in that franchise.
The Canucks really go down easy.
ReplyDeleteVeteran UFA C's available this summer:
ReplyDeleteRob Neidermayer
Brooks Laich
Chad Larose
John Madden
Marty Reasoner
Todd Marchant
Vernon Fiddler
Patrick Rissmiller
Brian Sutherby
Marcel Goc
Scott Nichol
Jason Krog
Lots of guys on that list who can win a faceoff, play PK, and throw a hit. Or, unlike grooming AHL players to be checking centers - these are C's with a clue.
Also... Zherdev, Frolov and Samsonov are all potential cheap replacements for Hemsky, should we deal him.
ReplyDeleteSince we are unlikely to make any big FA moves considering the time frame the Braintrust is using, I find UFA talk to be frustrating.
ReplyDeleteThat's a veteran list and I think most will go to cup contending teams, but if Tambi can eke out a Fiddler signing and a Hejda sigining, this team will be helped. And we can postpone the lynching a few months.
Raventalon, I'm against any stopgap signings this spring.
ReplyDeleteReality is, Edmonton cannot make the playoffs next season. Chicago finished 8th this year.
I fully support any signings that have long term value, like a sign and trade for Jarrett Stoll or whatever, but bringing in Marty Reasoner to challenge for 20th overall just doesn't make sense.
2012, Edmonton are much better off having Vandevelde with +80 games experience, and a 3rd overall pick, than signing stopgaps and drafting 10th.
@Spoiler: The biggest problem with unsuccessful rebuilds is having the kids do TOO much heavy lifting. You gotta have a veteran stopgap here and there.
ReplyDeleteNot just to carry some of the load, but also to show the way.
The Jason Smith to the Matt Greene.
The Adam Oates to the Jarret Stoll.
The Doug Weight to the Mike Comrie.
Losing or not, we need to have some of those guys. Horcoff is a start but it's a joke if the Braintrust thinks that guys like Khabibulin, Gerber, Strudwick have something to show.
The biggest crime is that the Oil signed Strudwick over Johnson at the end of last season. He would have been a great balancing force to the sometimes volatile play of young D like Smid and Petry, who in their own right are very good sometimes as well.
RT,
ReplyDeleteI agree with everything you said except the Aaron Johnson thing.
We was pure Chaos.
Nerph=fancy nerf
Also... Zherdev, Frolov and Samsonov are all potential cheap replacements for Hemsky, should we deal him.
ReplyDeleteWhat an absolute abomination of a post.
Just putrid.