Thursday, February 17, 2011

Habs at Oilers, G58 10-11

One thing about playing the 1970's Montreal Canadiens: there was never much to shoot at and the offensive opportunities were rare.

The 1970's Habs were crazy deep in an era where NHL teams had very little depth. Their AHL team would likely have finished ahead of Oakland, Washington and Kansas City during those years. In fact, they probably could have made the playoffs.
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The Montreal blueline had a top 3 that might have been the best trio in history. Larry Robinson, Serge Savard and Guy Lapointe were outstanding players, complete piss cutters all.
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Oilers have some of the NHL's highest scoring rookies. Here are the even-strength boxcars:
  1. Michael Grabner 53gp, 21-9-30
  2. Jeff Skinner 58gp, 15-14-29
  3. Logan Couture 55gp, 17-11-28
  4. Taylor Hall 57gp, 13-14-27
  5. Bryan Bickell  54gp, 11-15-26
  6. Derek Stepan 58gp, 13-12-25
  7. Brad Marchand 54gp, 11-13-24
  8. Jordan Eberle 44gp, 9-14-23
  9. Tyler Ellis 56gp, 8-14-22
  10. Magnus Pääjärvi 55gp, 8-10-18
Steve Stamkos was 79gp, 14-15-29  at even strength during his rookie season.
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I wrote an item on Zach Bogosian possibly being available over at ON yesterday. I think the Oilers would be wise to pursue that option, as it gives them a more mature defenseman and cuts off a couple of years of development. Would you trade Sam Gagner for Zach Bogosian straight up?
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I'm feeling kind of sad for my Ottawa friends today. People like Sean Keough and Kyle's Mom and Yokel from the old HF boards days of a decade ago. Why? Bruce Garrioch spills the news here in a quote from Bryan Murray:
  • We know for a fact going forward that we have three or four very good young players that are waiting for a chance to play in this organization that aren’t even in Binghamton yet, then we have to look at a couple of other guys in Binghamton. We’re going to retool the budget, we’re going to retool the organization and you’re right, there are going to be some painful nights here. I’ve talked to Edmonton and I’ve talked to Colorado about going young and how difficult it is at times.”
The scorched earth comes to Ottawa. I remember something about Ottawa being the capital because of geography, maybe that will help them in their rebuild.
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Montreal acquired D Paul Mara from the Anaheim Ducks yesterday. They gave up a 5th rd pick (sounds like it was originally Anaheim's and they traded it for Maxim Lapierre) to get him. I remain convinced that defensemen will be the currency ST deals in at the deadline, with Jim Vandermeer, Kurtis Foster and Ladislav Smid all possible.

373 comments:

  1. Wow adding Bogosian would be ideal. I think we would need to add more then Gagner though but not much maybe Smid or a pick. That would give us the option at the draft to possibly move down if we do get the first overall to a team looking at Larsson and pick up a another asset while drafting a C, or we could also draft Larsson and our D's potential would be almost as good as our offence.

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  2. The 5th round pick for Mara is somewhat troubling if we hope to get any value for Vandermeer. Mara is essentially a defenceman in the same mould as Vandermeer but superior in most aspects. Vandermeer for a 6th or a bottom 6 prospect?

    This year is looking to be something of an anomaly in that teams are paying a premium for forwards early on but there isn't been much apparent demand for defenders. It's probably coming though. It always does.

    Regarding Bogosian, I'm convinced that he's the second coming of Eric Brewer. Same size, similar stats in junior, and similar stats in their early NHL years. Should we trade Gagner straight across for him? Doubtful. Even if the Oilers are convinced that RNH or Couturier are #1C options moving forward, the move still strikes me as robbing Peter to pay Paul. Without Gagner the team becomes terrifyingly weak down the middle again.

    If you are trying to get Bogosian I think you have to do everything you can to obtain him without removing pieces that fit with the rebuild. The possibility exists that the team doesn't see Chorney as having much of a future as an NHL defenceman and is trying a pump-and-dump, which might explain his huge powerplay numbers against Dallas.

    If Atlanta wants a top 6 forward, a prospect, and a pick, I seriously consider sending them Hemsky/Penner, Chorney, and our 2nd in 2011. If they ask for Petry I'd balk at first but probably agree with a lower pick instead of the 2nd.

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  3. Also, new ISS top 30 is up.

    http://tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=36721

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  4. Certainly you'd have to give up quality to get quality. A Brule, Foster, Vandermeer, Frasier, Cogliano is not going to get you Bogosian.

    Who is the Oiler core right now? Hall, Eberle, Paajarvi, Whitney are easy. After that what's the view with Omark, Gagner, Gilbert if you are willing to listen to offers for Penner and Hemsky?

    I'd like to see a couple of real players get added to this team for next season and the blue and 3C are still the most obvious holes. A Bogosian helps (maybe later than sooner) but if you trade Gagner for him, did you just open up another hole in the lineup (a 2C) that now needs to be filled?

    Not that management is capable of effectively elaborating a plan, but after two seasons of dreadful hockey, they need to put this team in a position to at least be more competitive next season. Even if you buy 4 years (versus 6 years), you have to start being competitive before you build a culture of losing.

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  5. Mentioned this in an earlier thread, but glad it came up again: I know we're playing Airmchair GM here, but I don't see ATL taking Gags straight up for Bogo. No matter how much they've soured on the D-man, Dudley's not going to duplicate assets (see: Little, Bryan) while creating a hole on the backend.

    I also wouldn't interpret the Mara return as a comparable for what Vandy could fetch. ANA had a logjam with the Beauchemin acquisition & an existing relationship with MTL from the Lapierre trade. Ducks get their pick back & Habs gets a 6-7 to draw in for a wounded Spacek.

    I think the JVD trade happens closer to the wire & with a more desperate team. My guess would be a 3rd/4th, or a stunted prospect
    + a 6th.

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  6. I still have a hard time believing Bogosian is available, but if it comes to trading Hemsky and/or Penner, I think he'd be my #1 target over Schenn.

    At the time of the draft and even in his rookie season, I thought Bogosian was going to be the best D-man from that crop. While he'll probably never get to Doughty's level, he can still be a legit #1.

    I think I'd have far fewer reservations about trading one of those two forwards if Bogosian was coming back as opposed to picks, prospects or quantity over quality deal (i.e. Simmonds, prospect, pick).

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  7. Bottom 5 in NHL via pts%

    TOR .483
    NJD .439
    NYI .430
    OTT .395
    EDM .368

    Western Conference

    VAN .716
    DET .661
    NSH .596
    PHX .595
    LAK .588
    ANA .586
    DAL .586
    SJS .586
    ----------
    MIN .570
    CGY .567
    CHI .561
    CBJ .544
    STL .536
    COL .491
    EDM .368

    CHI and CAL are dragging themselves into real contention now, but need to keep winning a pretty good clip to get in.

    I think DAL is done.

    Oilers can win tonight.

    A beat up back end for MTL means that if the Oilers can make the first good pass out of the zone, it can be a track meet and I'd bet on the Oilers in a track meet against Les Habitants right now.

    If they come out with the same effort as they did against Dallas it should be fun to watch.

    Problem with the Oiler since forever is when they get a good win with a good effort they seem to invariably "throw their sticks on the ice" the next game and get their asses kicked.

    Hope that doesn't happen tonight.

    Go Oilers!

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  8. Would you trade Sam Gagner for Zach Bogosian straight up?

    Yes. Then you draft Couturier and keep Hemsky/Penner... progress

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  9. I'll be at the game tonight. I'll be the guy wearing the Blades jersey with the unusually large bulge in his pants.

    Should you encounter me feel free to give me a wink and a little blogger smile.

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  10. Lowetide,

    Is there ever a point where the Oilers look to Ottawa's veterans (Spezza, Alfredsson, Gonchar) to accelerate our own rebuild? The Oilers have high draft picks that could help them, while helping the Oilers find that elusive #1 centre.

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  11. Or how about this: Vandermeer + 5th for a 2nd rounder from a team in the Eastern playoffs hunt.

    That would be just dandy, IMO.

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  12. Oh and I'd do the Bogo/Gagner trade for a couple of reasons.

    1). I think Gagner is going to be more expensive then his worth going forward.

    2). We really need good young defensemen and I'd rather have a guy like Bogo whose went through some of his growing pains already.

    3). We can then make Hall a center for the rest of the year.

    4). We're gonna get Brayden Schenn. :)

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  13. Bogosian for Gagner? In a heartbeat.

    But I think Dudley will need a d-man coming back, so it would need to be a broader deal. i.e. Gagner and for Bogosian and .

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  14. I find the wildly varying opinions on Bogosian pretty interesting. All it really tells me is that there isn't enough info coming out of the southern states. Btn helps Bogosians case a little while ATL's coaching staff and ATL's saw him bad fans have really damaged his reputation.

    I've seen him pretty-not-bad quite a few times and I know Sumoil is a big supporter of his as well. People are probably getting annoyed cuz since I heard Gene mention Bogo for the first time I've been banging the drum on every website I can to get the guy. I guess I hope theres a trickle up effect and my happy thoughts seep into Tambo's brain somehow.

    Bogo for Gags? I guess, if I had to. Much prefer a package with Hemsky/Smid/2nd and maybe a hot center prospect like Martindale.

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  15. I think a Gagner for Bogosian trade is pretty fair. Both players were highly rated and both players have stagnated under their current teams.
    If anything I think Gagner would be much more effective in the east with its wide open play and could potentially reach 60 - 80 points seasons regularly something I highly doubt he could accomplish in the tight checking west.
    Moving Hall to center initially would defer the problem of a 2nd line center until Couturier has had a chance to develop, and once he has you swap him and Horcoff.
    If Hall doesn't develop as a center or they find he has lost some of his effectiveness perhaps you put Brule there (if he stays healthy the guy can win a face off and plays pretty gritty)or someone like Lander or Pitlick blows off the doors at training camp.
    I think we would mainly agree that finding a 2nd line center is a lot easier than finding a top 2 defenceman or a #1 center.
    I do the trade in a heartbeat.

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  16. If Tambo could turn Hemsky into Schenn and Gagner into Bogo, he could take Couturier in the draft.

    He'd then have Schenn, Couturier, Horcoff, and Lander as his C's.

    That would look to be a strong group going forward.

    It would be tought to do though. Bogo isn't likely available and LA really likes Schenn.

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  17. @SB I didnt see your Hall comment until after my post so I hope you don't think I was stealing your idea or hanging on to your coat tails :)

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  18. ATL's centers according to ATL's website:

    Little (2 years then RFA)
    Antropov (2 years then UFA -rumored to be trade bait)
    Stapleton (1 more year league min)
    Burmistrov (1st year of ELC)

    That's weird since both NHL.com and BTN list Peverley as a C. Peverley also has the toughest CorsiQC on the team (among forwards), followed by Bergfors, Modin, Slater, then Ladd.

    If you have Little (2 more years then RFA) and Burmistrov (on 1st year of ELC), then I don't see a need for Gagner.

    They could use more scoring on the wing.

    Their RW and LW depth according to their site:

    LW
    Ladd
    Kane
    Cormeir
    Boulton

    RW
    Bergfors
    Stewart
    Thorburn
    Peverley (??)

    Kinda bizzare to have Peverley listed as 4RW.

    Looking at this list they could use a scoring RW.

    Not sure they are in the 1.25 year of Hemsky market. 14 is untouchable.

    What about Youtube + Smid + 2nd?

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  19. According to Dreger on TSN:

    "With the addition of Chris Kelly, Blake Wheeler has become a likely target - primarily because of his $2.2 million salary...Wheeler is a versatile forward who's comfortable playing both the wing and at centre and is believed to be drawing interest from other teams."

    www.tsn.ca/nhl/dregerreport/

    Should the Oilers be interested in Blake Wheeler? He's 24 yrs old and has size at 6'5 and over 200 lbs.

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  20. Woodguy - Gagner also plays RW, and probably is a better fit there. He would be great playing with a physical forward like Ladd and whichever centre Ladd usually plays with.

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  21. I'm not sure that Atlanta does Gagner for Bogosian, mostly because it was Doug MacLean who I first heard suggest it.

    Maybe the Oilers could throw in Plante & get a pick in return.

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  22. Idk WG..looks like that last team in the NHL still might have a chance no?
    Lol I am rooting for a win too. For some reason I have always wanted oilers to beat the Canadiens more than any other team in the east than leafs of course.
    I would do Bogosian for gagner, just because I believe that he will be able to impact this tem in a bigger way than gagner

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  23. SumOil: On wanting to beat the Habs... Remembering my days as an Expos fan with the Yankees/Boston in town in interleague play, I'd venture a part of it is due to half of the stadium being filled with their fans.

    Kinda universally grates on the nerves of the locals, usually.

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  24. Oliver,
    I guess that is one of the reasons.
    The primary reason is tha there was a game on the 06-07 season and oilers were on the eastern road trip and needed a successful one to re-establish playoff position. However they were beaten by Boston, then buffalo and I was really rooting hard for Mtl win as I considered both teams to be equal. However we lost even after a lead and that put me off...since then Mtl has not been my fav.

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  25. Calling Spezza too old makes no sense. He's 27. I can understand not liking his play or his injuries or his contract... but his age?

    Are Horc, Whitney, Gilbert, Penner, Hemsky, all too old? Too old for what?

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  26. @ spoiler

    maybe it wasnt as obvious as i thought...
    too old: Alfredsson
    too overpaid: Spazza
    both: Gonchar

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  27. Apparently Dreger said on Team990 that Montreal is going after Penner. I can't see anything there that would make Tambo pull the trigger. Pacioretty is the only nice young piece but he's not gonna move. All their prospects are redundant in our pool and their 1st is currently #21.

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  28. ISS http://tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=36721
    Has Landeskog listed as a LW I thought he was RW. Does anyone know for certain?
    I always thought Eberle, Landeskog on the right would look good in a couple of years :)

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  29. I like 89 and I don't think the Oilers are doing him any favours by saddling him with 91-23 when better wingers are available.

    I think right now it would be better to have 27-4-10-89-14-83 as your top six and try and fashion two line from that.

    But, seriously, some people would rather deal 83 for Bogo rather than 89, really?

    I'd make the 89/Bogo deal if it was available and the next step would be 4 as a pivot.

    27-91-4-10-14-83 as your top six and 13-23 as the base for your third line or at least for the rest of this season.

    also, yes, 13's putting up some numbers lately so the pump and dump should be on for him. I can't see a place for him on this club going forward unless it's as a winger who doesn't cost fuckall.

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  30. I think if you trade Gagner+ for Bogo the target at the draft might be Nugent-Hopkins and not Couturier. My suspicion, which might falling for public disinformation, is that Larsson/RNH are 1/2 for the Oilers. Nugent-Hopkins might be the best player in the draft--keep in mind he is non-trivially younger than the others in the top4--and with Gagner gone you might be able to fit in the 6' 17 year old and hope he grows an inch or two. I like the Gagner deal in part because it lets you draft for a forward in the top-5 which I think is always the safer play--and we know two of RNH/Couturier/Landeskog will be on the table when we draft.

    So I'd deal Gagner for Bogo with the expectation that you draft a forward on draft day (unless MB is very fond of Larsson, which he might be). Maybe Bogo is Brewer but the backend we have now could use a Brewer or two and that is probably worst case scenario. I like Gagner but I think we have an idea on his ceiling and I think he's a guy you can let fall through the cracks for the chance at a big piece. Though I agree with the above poster that Gagner would instantly add offense playing in the East.

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  31. I hate Mtl because the fans think the are entitled based on a lot of winning because they had the first chance at the best players in Quebec.

    Other than that I think they're great;)

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  32. gog: if that kid is 6-17 wouldn't that really make him 7-5?

    Fuck, that's a pretty big centre:)!

    Note: I wanted to see what it was like to be Bruce and nitpick people;)

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  33. Thank you, SumOil. Without some reference it was impossible to know what you were talking about.

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  34. ...and their 1st is currently #21...

    *coughcoughJamieOleksiakcoughcough*

    For the record, do NOT want to see Penner moved. And I can't see MTL fitting DP into their current cap situation.

    Still, start with their 1st rounder and put Tinordi in the conversation... My trigger finger's getting itchy already :)

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  35. Montreal's cap situation is fine; they have 2.7 million free, which means they have to free 1.5 to fit Penner or Hemsky in there. Which is pretty much Moen's salary.

    The thing is, I don't think they have the bullets to pull it off either. People in MTL are saying Yannick Weber is on the block but I find it hard to believe. I think Wisniewski goes before Weber.

    Anyway, why would EDM move Penner at this point in time? The return may very well be higher next year, that is either they are good and Penner helps or he's moved to a contender.

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  36. Sweet Jeebus... the fans around here are hard enough on Dustin "Can I haz Ur CheEzeBuRGeR" Penner because of his (at times) indifferent play.

    And there's rumors that Montreal wants him? Christ - they'd kill the guy before he finished his second game... What good is it to trade for a player who is guaranteed to become one of the fanbase's whipping boys?

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  37. DF: Due to injuries to Markov they can fit DP (Sounds like porn) under the cap.

    This game will be a delight. You'l have a chance to see my elephant live. (You probably know who).

    As for the Mara trade i'm beginning to believe Pierre Gauthier is sincerely stupid.

    All he has done so far is buy players who cost nothing to theyr respective previous owner, and just reaquired a player he let go for nothing.

    Anyway lines for the Habs tonight:

    Pacioretty-Plekanec-Giotna
    White-Desharnais-Pouliot
    Moen-Gomez-Kostitsyn
    Pyatt-Halpern-Darche

    I have a sincere hate for the last left wingers. These are some of the most putrid hockey players ever.

    Oh and JFJ said a lot of things in the MTL paper today. Notably that he tought he was scratched more than he earned, but that he was happy to be there because of the future on the team (Which i found funny because he should just be happy to have a job)

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  38. Olivier: I tought Pacioretty was on the block before he basically became our best winger.

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  39. I'm considering almost every Oiler available to trade and I can't fathom a trade that should impact what the Oilers do with the 1st OV. Best Player Available. Period.

    If the Oilers can get Spezza for relatively little impact, then that seems pretty worthwhile if they want to capitalize on the window next year with the ELCs and 27 and 83. I think that should be considered. If Ottawa is giving away 27-yr old first line centres who can win draws and deal on the PP, then you have to consider it.

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  40. Gagner is the only centre the Oilers have that is a positive Corsi driver.

    On the OIlers, Hemsky, Penner, Hall, Gagner, and Eberle are the Corsi bus drivers right now.

    So one digs an even deeper hole(chasm) at centre to fill on defense in a Gagner-Bogosian trade. Just draft Larsson, and don't do the trade.

    Pitlick, Hamilton, and Hartikainen are all wingers also. At centre there is only Lander (and the conservative projection on Lander is as a 3rd line centre).

    The surplus is on wing. A winger should go to fill the hole at centre or on defense.

    Gagner is not a perfect or an ideal player, but he is a safe bet to be a good 2nd line centre who can move the Corsi bus in the right direction.

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  41. Just draft BPA. It's not football, we can trade for our needs.

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  42. Speculating on Tambo's lockerroom chat the other day, I wonder if MBS has given Steve the heads up that his first choice in the draft is unlikely to be other team's first choice. Given the parity of at least the top 4 (and others in striking distance) this is quite possible making the 1OV pick less important to the Oilers than it was last year. Where was Tambellini last year when we were on one of our 12 game losing sprees? Up in the pressbox dreaming of T. Hall. I might be reading too much into it though.

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  43. Moen-Gomez-Kostitsyn

    That's a lot of money for "third" line centre.

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  44. Grant: I know, but he's been like the black plague. Everyone who plays with him just goes on a drought.

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  45. FPB: So Desharnais's line is the second one, eh?

    Is Renney matching lines these days?

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  46. The thing about BPA is that you have to know one player available is better than the rest. Despite the positive attributes of each member of the top 4, each comes with at least one question mark from what I can tell. Whether it's small stature and high percentage of powerplay points, risk of drafting a D early, speed issues combined with not overwhelming anyone in the ToSS', or supposed lower ceiling and a significant injury.

    If I were a betting man (and I'm not), I'd guess Edmonton takes Larsson and I'd be just fine with that.

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  47. Spezza has a gimpy back, and a Brian-Campbellesque contract, and is highly over-rated because Ottawa got lucky in a year the Eastern Conference was pathetically weak.

    Spezza is just a bigger Gagner at 3 times the cost. More prone to the drop pass to the opposition at the blue line. People complain about Gilbert being soft. Spezza is like hot butter.

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  48. I'd add that I doubt there is any way that Atlanta takes Gagner for Bogosian without the Oilers adding some other significant pieces.

    I also question the wisdom in trading away Gagner and hoping that our 1st round pick next year can move in and be a contributor over the term of his ELC. The problem is compounded when you consider that neither Couturier or RNH are slam dunks. Both have signficant concerns that may limit their effectiveness in the NHL (foot speed or size).

    We've just invested 3 years in Gagner's development and we still hold his rights for another 3 years after this season. Hemsky and Penner are UFAs at the end of next season. Those are the circumstances. Unless Tambellini has assurances he can rely upon that they will re-sign, he should be considering moving them before Gagner.

    Generally, Tambellini should take a shot at Bogosian, but if he is asked for Gagner, Hemsky, or Penner, he probably should just decline and stay the course.

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  49. Olivier: Well I think he's slowly taking over.

    I think JM is simply trying to disguise it so Gomez doesn't get pissed. (Getting PP time)

    If Gomez was still 2nd Center there's no way he'd let Moen (Garbage man) on that line, instead of upgrading Pouliot.

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  50. I find BPA over Need to be an interesting talking point that doesn't hold up to (my) scrutiny. Larsson might have the better career but it's almost unheard of for a Dman to contribute as early as a center.

    Most dmen emerge around 25 leaving at most 3 years to UFA. You can't draft one expecting a Doughty. Best player available is different than best asset available, especially when you start considering your window for contention.

    Add to that the fact that star centers are never traded(Fuck Jumbo Joe, he made that statement alot less convincing but still true). IMO, take centerman unless Dman is >>>> the rest. Larsson hasn't convinced me.

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  51. Jon K: I think the only lottery pick F with that size and production who failed in the last 20 year must be Chris Gratton.

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  52. You can't guarantee a Doughty sort of offensive performance but over in TB you have Hedman playing 2nd pairing competition with decent help and coming out ahead consistently in this, his sophomore season. Is Tavares over in Long Island helping his team win more than this? A cheap, reliable top 4 defenseman within 2 years is a pretty good asset if you ask me.

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  53. Showerhead: Larsson is considerably smaller and behind in offensive production than Hedman was.

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  54. @showerhead

    Sure Dmen can contribute early but BPA vs Need is dogma in some parts and it's just not a strong argument. Centers through RFA on average contribute far more than Dmen through RFA. My point is its not a sin to consider need at the draft table.

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  55. Olivier: lately it's been 27-10-83 versus the other team's best line but Renney doesn't seem to have a real plan other than doing what he wants and then falling back on the rebuild as an excuse.

    but there does seem to be more sense to it all lately so i suspect 10 will go up against turtleneck tomas plekanec tonight.

    btw, i can totally see why Ctl would be so wet for 27. they simply can't draft size with skill so it would make sense for them to lust after a DP..haha.

    Riv: i would take a shot at Spezza as well.

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  56. Spezza can take face offs but is overpaid due to his inability to back check or play well defensively as a forward. Also, management is supposedly past their high stakes game of going after 7 million dollar players! REBUILD We have heard enough of that for 2 seasons of poor Oilers play to believe it or else....

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  57. Dennis: I'm pretty convinced he would be the whipping boy in a nanosecond.

    Andrei Kostitsyn's already the people's goat so no need for a 2nd one.

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  58. FPV: I'm not ready to accept the difference between 6'6 230 and 6'3 220 as being significant at all, in and of itself.

    As for the offense, you're absolutely right. There is a huge disconnect between the numbers he's put up in the SEL and what the scouts say about him being more dangerous offensively than Hedman was. I'll accept any reasonable explanations here because I don't have a clue.

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  59. FPB* - sorry about the "V" typo.

    CSimpson18 - In one sentence you say that centers provide better value in those early years than defensemen and in the next sentence you say it's ok to draft for need in some circumstances. Taken separately I am not confused by either thought but I don't see how one leads into another. Help?

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  60. I like a lot of things about adding Spezza. He'd probably come cheap asset wise and Edmonton has the cap room. He'd be better offensively than any other Oiler center and push other players down the depth chart. Obviously, Edmonton would be a better team with him than without him.

    It's just that contract is exactly one year too long.

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  61. And for my fourth post in a row, I'll just say apparently I type feverishly when caffeinated :)

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  62. Showerhead: It's all good contribution. It's entairtaining mme during montage class lol.

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  63. I don't quite understand all of the worry regarding Ryan Nugent-Hopkins getting so many of his points on the powerplay.

    After all once he joins the Oilers, he'll be picking lint out of his arse like everyone else on the squad.

    He won't be scoring anymore points on the powerplay then...problem solved.

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  64. Shower: A class where we learn to edit videos in a professional manner.

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  65. And here we thought you were balls deep into a Scrapbooking course.

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  66. with the Bieksa injury is Vandermeer worth a 2nd to vancouver its probably going to be in th 55-60 range

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  67. Ribs: Ironically it's a running gag in the Arts department. Those who do it don't really belong :P. (A scrapbook in any class, there's no class of such things)

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  68. Interesting take on the Versteeg trade. The part that is most interesting in the analysis of the players picked in the 25th-30th slot from '94 - 2009.

    You don't get all the details, but you get the view of success of a late first round pick.

    http://bitterleaf.blogspot.com/2011/02/road-to-nowhere-leafs-trade-versteeg.html

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  69. By my reckoning there's no "can't miss", elite talent at the top of this years draft. Some damn fine players, but no franchise player.

    If that's really the case, is our lottery pick really sacrosanct? v3.0 should consider dangling our 1st if there's a player he really covets.

    Of the top of my head: EDM's 1st + Smid for ATL's 1st + Bogosian?

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  70. SH: well, you worry about that last year when it happens. And it wouldn't be hard to get rid of an overpay on the last year of a pact I don't imagine.

    Plus, it would only be a cap concern and not real money as Spezza's contract is front-loaded so a poor team could take him if they had lots of cap space.

    I would love the idea of 10-Spezza down the middle and I'd love to know what it would take to bring him here.

    FPB: Yes, I don't doubt 27 would feel the gears in a short amount of time but I know what has irked Cuntreal since LeClair was moved so I'm sure they're in the mix.

    Overall, though, I don't want to deal either of the vet wingers and I think it's bullshit that everyone knows they're out there.

    ReplyDelete
  71. @Dennis: Horpensky vs TurtlePleks it is then.

    Martin always matches this starting pattern:

    Pleks: Toughest comp
    Gomez: Secondary tough opp
    Desharnais: Third/4th line
    Halpern: 4th line and sometimes Mop-up duty against opposition's top line when Pleks isn't available.

    two things that sometimes happens:

    - Pleks sometimes falters; Martin then inverts him and Gomez. I doubt this will happen, 67-14-21 are perfectly fine.

    - On the road, the opposing coach may realize Desharnais's line isn't very good defensively; he'll then start matching a top line with them, then Martin answers by cutting into Desharnais's time and put Moen up instead.

    My point here is twofold:

    - 83/10/27 is the top line. It'll be interesting to see who Martin dubs 2nd and 3rd trough his matchups.

    - If Renney feels like it, he can truly fuck them up by matching Hall-Eberle against Desharnais. That means Martin would need to bench 58 and give more ice to Halpern. Gomez being AWOL since the all star break, that would pretty much do them in.

    We'll see.

    ReplyDelete
  72. Olivier: Well the problem is Moen is as horrible defensively. It's like Drew Bledsoe on skates.

    ReplyDelete
  73. Olivier: good stuff, bud. Nice to have a little idea what to expect.

    I'll predict it's 10 versus the guy who cheap-shotted old 71;) and then 13 vs Gomez and 89 vs your midget and that could be where we see the goals scored...both ways:)

    BTW, for all,: because Gregor hinted towards it and because 16's once again HSed tonight, I'd expect Fraser to be dealt any time now.

    ReplyDelete
  74. Dennis: Well apparently I didn't need much convincing. All of those reasons sound just fine by me depending on the cost to acquire.

    ReplyDelete
  75. Dennis: re: dirty slew-footing basterds... Wonder if he tries that on Peckham? If he does, I think he's actually fast (and shifty) enough to live to talk about it :D.

    I really look forward to the Hoprensky/Pleks matchup tonight. Especially knowing that, with the depleted D, the top defense pair is Hamrlik-Wisniewski. The Oil may have trouble gaining the zone, but once they do, I think the habs will suffer.

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  76. fpb - I came up with another comparable for your boy a couple of days ago.

    Olli Jokinen - 6'3" 210# ,3 OV in 1997. I have called him the invisible man on this site before.

    Regarding #1C potential, I like Seguin over all of RNH, SC and Schenn. I think he's from the Sakic/Gilmour tree. If we actually wanted this, last year was the time.

    Drafting for need only makes sense if you believe that in spite of the questions around 13 and 89, the Oilers developing players in the NHL is correct. I don't, but we have not had our Boedker/Tikhonov/Turris troubles yet.

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  77. Of the top of my head: EDM's 1st + Smid for ATL's 1st + Bogosian?

    Larssen and Smid for Bogo and late round first doesn't sound that good to me.

    Bogosian is unlikely to be better than any of the top 4 or 5 this year. In the short term sure, but in 4 years there will be much regret.

    Bogosian makes sense for Gagner (small forward) or Hemsky (injury prone winger) but not for a future #1 Dman, #1 C, or even Landeskog.

    fpv, if MTL wanted Penner, is Eller worth considering as part of a package of perhaps Eller, Tinordi, and a 1st? He plays C and looks to have a little grit, but only has 8 pts this year. He had 50+ in the AHL last year.

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  78. I would love the idea of 10-Spezza down the middle and I'd love to know what it would take to bring him here.

    Dennis, it seems to me that OTT isn't going to have cap problems once the tear down starts. Murray is hanging on by his fingernails (I assume, as he was the architect of the mess) and can't just trade Spezza for Cogs + Smid.

    He has to at least beat what Burke got for Versteeg (1st and 3rd).

    Plus this isn't the time to trade with OTT, the deadline is about taking advantage of contenders.

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  79. @Showerhead

    I can see how my comment was confusing.

    Even if Larsson at his peak is better than RNH, you have to consider that centers will contribute more early on. Despite Lowe's 4-6 year project I don't think cup contention is out of the question in 2013-2014.

    Dmen, because they take longer to develop, push the timetable back and make for a narrower window. Probably still clear as mud but I'm no wordsmith.

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  80. I agree with Deano. Seguin is superior to anyone in this draft and Schenn or Bogosian. If you trade a hemsky or penner you try your damnest for Seguin before trading for draft picks or other prospects like Schenn and Bogo. And if Seguin is not cards well then you take a look at other deals, but I would focus on Seguin if I were GM. And we know MBS is hot for Seguin too.

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  81. Ducey: I'd say there's definitly a player in Lars Eller. Question is will he find it.

    He has enjoyed 0 PP time so i'd say it downed his numbers.

    He has all the tools but just seemed like he was brought up too fast. That could well be a package the Habs would consider, especially with Tinordi's lackluster season.

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  82. Oilers pushed hard for Seguin at the draft. 14 + 83 was the reported offer.

    Given how 14 looks I wonder if Chiarelli is kicking himself in the ass?

    If Chiarelli didn't move him last year, I'm not sure he moves him this year. With their key players under contract, their window is not closing.

    ReplyDelete
  83. More Showerhead is better than less.

    There's a filthy joke in there that I will just stay away from.

    ReplyDelete
  84. Habs Update: Lars Eller in for Tom Pyatt (Thank god)

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  85. Seguin's already starting to be used with the b.u.s.t. word attached.

    Don't shoot me, I'm only the messenger.

    Ryan Nugent-Hopkins suddenly on the top of the scouting lists, with a fantastic level of ability - the only thing holding him back appears to be the fact he's not already a giant at 17 years old. But 6 feet tall is no shrimp, and he's bound to put on a few pounds eventually.

    RNH doesn't sound bad at all.

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  86. Showerhead for everyone! Showerhead all afternoon! Etc Etc.

    I call Scarlett.

    There. I went there so the rest of you can feel like grownups.

    ReplyDelete
  87. "Oilers pushed hard for Seguin at the draft. 14 + 83 was the reported offer."

    Woodguy, I understood it was Hemsky and Boston also wanted Eberle and were politely told to FO.

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  88. Eller is a player. Playing the bottom-6 for Oct-December, he hovered around 53-55% Corsi% and 53-59% SC% at ES. Funny thing is, Subban was pulling the same kind of numbers in the same situation, only better.

    In january, injuries made Martin push them both in tough minutes assignations; PK still kicked ass (pulling a 54% corsi%, 50% zone start , 50% SC% in january playing top comp with Gill), Eller kinda caved in, going around 45% on all three % while playing with Pleks. This continued while playing with Moen.

    So there. Kiddo is a world beater against soft opp but not up to hard minutes duties yet. He should step it up somewhere next year, I'm not worried. My guess is he'll be a larger version of Plekanec in two-three years from now. That's a mighty fine player if you ask me.

    Oh yes, lack of offense: he's now up to 5%, but he dragged a 3% on ice shooting % for much of the season.

    Btw, even tough there is no such thing as a "buy low" on a 7.3 mil cap contract, Gomez currently has a 4% ES On-ice S%. I guess he must be lazy.

    Anyway, now way in hell Eller is going anywhere this year.

    Ok, end of habs rant. I'll now let you guys go back to assessing the Oilers situation and Scarlett Johansson serving blowjobs in the shower.

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  89. There, I said "Moen" again. Should read "this continued while playing with Gomez".

    Sigh. I should just e-mail all this crap to FPB, right?

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  90. Only if you send a scrapbook full of Max Pacioretty montages as well.

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  91. At some point risk has to be undertaken to balance this team out.

    Gagner is a good player, so is Bogosian.

    Also Gagner is typically still only good (or maybe effective) if he plays with Penner which is a problem.

    We need a competent physical D desperately, we have a lot of skilled undersized centres. Gagner may be the best of them, but after 4 years it's clear he's not a franchise player.

    It's a no-brainer to do that trade, definitely a net team benefit. And two holes get filled if a centre with size is drafted.

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  92. Jake,

    My understanding is v3.0 offered 83 + 14 for Seguin and was told no by Chiarelli.

    When v3.0 went after CBJ's pick (Johanson) they asked for 14 and v3.0 said no.

    Truth is somewhere in there.

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  93. If we honestly tabled an offer of Hemsky for two years plus Eberle, there is absolutely no justifiable reason his name is still on the door of the GM office.

    Trade your best current RW and your best RW prospect (leaving a whole lot of wanting on your right side) for a top prospect center is way too large a price.

    Shuffling the weakness around in circles is a terrible way forward. (which means that likely was the case...)

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  94. We're top 6 wingers too deep, center and defense to thin.

    Either bold moves to rebalance or no major moves is still my call.

    If Hemsky is being sent out the door, Penner might as well go with him as regardless of return we're still not coming around the corner next year.

    Hemsky, Penner, Cogs and (+ say 2012 1st rounder) to the kings or bruins

    for

    Smyth, Simmonds, Schenn and Forbort

    or

    Seguin, Ryder, Wheeler and both 1st this year (this gives us 2 top 5's so Larson plus RNH/Cout are added)

    Gagner, Smid and picks for Bogs and picks


    I know I've more or less said this before but there surely is a way to make these deals work.

    ReplyDelete
  95. I don't get the buzz around Bogosian.

    Guy's 20 has regressed and already had a broken leg.

    ReplyDelete
  96. Seguin 1.57 ES P/60 Even
    Hall 1.82 ES P/60 -8

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  97. chartleys - I'd try:

    Hemsky and Penner for Seguin, Wheeler and Colbourne.

    B's end up top-heavy on F though.

    and I don't get bringing Smytty back at all except as salary.


    fpb - I hear you on Bogo. Caveat emptor. No way he should even be available.

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  98. There is a future cost associated with winning a cup.

    Both Bos and LA are lacking what we have in play.

    You put Penner and Hemsky on either of those teams and eat the cap hits neccessary to make that happen -->both those teams stand extremely increased odds of walking off with a cup.


    Stockpile of chips worth cashing in either case. IMO

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  99. @Deano

    We don't really want Smyth back but it essentially cap neutralizes the deal (and it's got a feel good sentiment that I'm sure management would love).

    Penner and Hemsky

    for

    Smyth and Simmonds

    same cost, Huge upgrade. Now figure out the chips around it to make that palatable on our end.

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  100. Jarkko Ruutu for ANA for a 6th round pick.

    That's a terrible return.

    I know Ruutu is UFA after this season, but a 6th is essentially free.

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  101. Penner and Hemsky for Smyth and Simmonds????

    This is an upgrade how? A 34 yr old left winger in Smyth and a third/fourth line right winger in Simmonds?

    I like Smyth and Simmonds but think thats an overpay.

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  102. Perry and Rutuu on the same team...Ugh. At least the Oilers are done playing them.

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  103. In my mind this is what I have penned in roster wise going forward:

    C - Horc, Seguin/Schenn, RNH/Cout, Lander/?
    LW - Hall, MPS, Smyth/?, Teemu/?
    RW - Eberle, Omark, Simmonds /Land/?,Ginger/?

    D:
    Whitney
    Bogs
    Larson/Forbort
    Gilbert
    Petry
    Peckham
    ?

    G:Dubnyk, Rekhab/better

    I would be shooting for something like that. That team is pretty raw and would take some beatings but if you leave Teemu and Lander down and replaced with vets (short term). It would likely not be dredging the bottom by next years end (making our 2012 picks slightly sellable as the stable is really really stocked)

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  104. Frelbo, exactly.

    It is a huge upgrade for LA which is why the Schenn, Forbot is added on their part and whatever change needed on ours. I was simply stripping away the upside for the Oilers end.

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  105. Penner and Hemsky

    for

    Smyth and Simmonds


    You're fired as imaginary GM :-)

    I don't get that at all. All you get going forward is Simmonds, plus you get a cap burden.

    Smyth is essentially of neutral value due to his cap hit, age and injury history.

    Schenn, Smyth, Vey and a first for Pen-sky perhaps.

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  106. Yeah, what a pointless trade for Ruutu. Getting a 6th back is like taking 100 bucks to the roulette table and putting it on one number at 35-1, but if you win you just get your money back.

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  107. Ah add wheeler and Ryder into the / parts appropriately.

    If we are playing for the present (which is where Hemsky and Penner have immense value) then longest I can reasonably see not being an up and comming threat is by the 2012-2013 season. Essentially parlay Hemsky and Penner's values forward.

    Keep or trade both. We are likely going to half ass it though.

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  108. don't forget that the Ducks have Laperierre as well.

    who's left to go from Ott? Phillips and Kovalev? is that it?

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  109. Again,

    Penner Hemsky +

    for

    Smyth, Simmonds, Forbort and Schenn

    is what I am going for.

    Someone was just asking why you would take smyth and I was trying to pull that out and make it obvious.

    The present pieces are Penner/Hemmer for Smyth/Simmonds. It is beyond obvious that there is a huge deficit on one side of this equation which is where future comes in.

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  110. I don't know how many GMs are willing to go for it all the way Burke does.

    You need someone on the other side willing to raid his own prospect cupboard for everything we have.

    If we add Vandermeer for Ryder+, that could help the B's out too.

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  111. @Maudite.

    Gotcha. I didn't realize you meant upgrade for them not us. Also, missed your "figure out the chips around it" comment. If the chips are Schenn/Forbort then I can start to get on board. Those are more than chips. I'd say they're the meat of the trade.

    Sorry for the outrage. Cheers.

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  112. Ottawa's 23rd ranked penalty kill was way too good for them. They need to get rid of guys posthaste to keep up to our super special teams.

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  113. //Hemsky and Penner for Seguin, Wheeler and Colbourne.//

    Only one of Hemsky or Penner should net the Oilers that, not both of them.

    One should be able to get a top prospect plus for each of Hemsky and Penner. There is only one in the deal proposed.

    I'm generally in favor of trading Hemsky, but I'm sure as hell not willing to give him away for next to nothing. I'm generally not in faovr of trading Penneri, and the same applies.

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  114. I'll stop after this one (sorry LT)

    My main concern is this:

    Past this deadline we are retaining seriously depreciated value in Penner and Hemsky. With management having no real commitment to start turning the corner next year it is beyond senseless to hold onto them.

    Penner or Hemsky at next years deadline brings you about half as much back. So if you keep them you are extending them or you are stupid. We are likely inclined to stupidity here. I'm certain we're going to see one of these guys out the door while the other stays (prone to fence sitting). Extremely poor plan. We have cap space to accomidate people staring at a large window and huge value assets. If our Dithers cannot figure out how to market this he should add another reason he should be fired to the list.

    Not trying to turn shit into gold just trying to actually right the ship by parlaying present value into more balanced future value.

    That is all.

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  115. We don't know that. If Penner and Hemsky can be signed (or one of them can) there's no reason this team won't contend for a playoff spot next season.

    They HAVE the future jacks and kings, and ANY decent GM can grab some 6's and 7's.

    I don't buy that argument at all. This team isn't that far away from contention.

    1. Add a goalie who hasn't retired alreadu to help Dubnyk.

    2. Add a quality veteran with a wide range of skills to the group that includes Whitney-Gilbert and Peckham-Petry-Smid and then add a veteran 5-6D for depth.

    3. Do something to help the special teams. Anything, really.

    4. Be willing to address need during the season. Tambellini's hibernation is galling.

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  116. LT's list through Free Agency....

    1. Tomas Vokoun
    2. Kevin Bieksa, Karlis Skrastins
    3. Brad Richards
    4. Shit

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  117. LT's list through Free Agency....

    Good luck bringing those guys in :-)

    Looking at Bulin's numbers, if he had a .915 save %, he would have given up 25 less goals. The Oilers still would be 141 GF, 170 GA

    Maybe someone could figure out what a 20th place PK and PP would do to the GA/GF numbers.

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  118. Alright then, everybody back to the showerhead. Let's get moving, I don't want to see any stragglers this time. Scarlett's cold and pissed off, and you guys are standing around with your hands in your pockets re-engineering a 30th-fucking-place hockey squad.

    What's this world coming to?

    Wait, Pat's back again. What the hell is that thing made of?

    ReplyDelete
  119. Scarlett's cold and pissed off? Riiiight. For about 12 seconds. She probably doesn't even need to pick up the phone. Raise an eyebrow, maybe.

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  120. I said it over on the C&B just now but I'll throw most of it here as well.

    At the current point Hemsky and Penner have insanely huge value. Far more value than they will on their next UFA contracts. To not cash these chips in and actually try to balance the lineup’s percieved weaknesses comes at a very high opportunity cost.

    -We loose two 1st liners on value contracts for this year’s playoffs
    -likely waste two 1st liners on value contracts for another year (which again includes no playoffs).

    It’s not for lack of understanding the concept here, it’s lack of seeing a clear way forward retaining an over abundance of potential on our wings with deficiencies down the middle, on the blue and between the posts.

    LW Penner, MPS, Hall (3 top 6 wingers for two spots capwise)
    RW Hemmer, Eberle, Omark (3 top 6 wingers for two spots capwise)

    Now if you project Hall and Eberle as your top unit wingers (good solid bet) you likely cannot afford to have the likes of Penner and Hemsky on their next contracts patrolling another line. Magnus and Linus < Penner and Hemsky but a decent bet as a second line option that fits in capwise.

    That’s the big issue here. If you can move Penner and Hemsky to get you grade A prospects in the middle or on the blue, the net gain more than offsets the short term loss. it also means they are dealing with zero players on UFA contracts.

    Chicago had a great team. Inserting long term UFA deals into the mix ahead of schedule cost them dearly. I have no interest in following their model too closely.

    If you were soon to be facing UFA status, would you be in a rush to lock yourself in here?

    I sure as hell wouldn’t. No one controls where these guys end up two summer from now. To lock them up this summer would mean we have to give a percieved over pay for that luxury. That really doesn’t sit well with me as there are still way more questions than answers.

    If they like it here, pay the UFA market price in two years time with a stronger stable of young guys. I can’t see much logical sense in dithering away the final drops of true value contracts either of these guys will ever be on.

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  121. We don't have enough NHL players. If one or both of these fellows want to stay, ST better measure that very carefully.

    There was a time when a Janne Niinimaa was devastated at being dealt but those days are a distant bell.

    Penner or Hemsky want to stay? SIGN THEM.

    The only argument I've seen is that the Oilers would have too many qualified skill wingers.

    Well Jesus H Murphy we've suffered through YEARS of not having enough, wouldn't it be nice to have too many for a fricking season or two?

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  122. The trades I'm reading on this board are bordering on ridiculous. Boston won't trade Seguin, period.

    Oiler fans here are in a near panic to lose either or both of Hemsky and Penner, the only two established NHL wingers in the entire fucking organisation?

    You sound like crackheads.

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  123. And I thought we were Showerheads. That was short-lived.

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  124. Tavares with a beaut so far in a losing cause...

    OK, let's say the plan is to continue to develop.

    Trade Vandy, Fraser, Brule, or Jones for picks. Try and get at least a 2nd and a 3rd outta that chaff.

    Draft Couturier. Sign Reasoner. Sign Sopel type. Sign either Anderson or Bryzgalov. Make a play for Bieksa and Phillips.

    Does this team contend for the playoffs:

    PENN HORC HEMS
    HALL COUT EBER
    PAAJ GAGN OMAR
    HART REAS REDD
    COGL

    WHIT GILB
    PHIL PETR
    PECK SOPE
    SMID

    ANDE
    DUBN

    Maybe? Still pretty young. But we should also be much better off when dealing with injuries next year, after adding Lander, Hamilton, Martindale, Marincin and maybe Pitlick to the A.

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  125. If Matty was right and old 94 does really want to finish in Edm than that's the kind of thing that could happen on draft day.

    so no real reason to try and make it happen now.

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  126. I have to say, although another year in the wilderness makes me want to throw-up a little, Maude does have one thing right. There are two playoffs between now and July 1 2012.

    If Hemsky wants to be an oiler long-term, give him a chance to play in Boston and make a run or two, then see if he'll come back and help show us how it's done. With some of the fine assets that he bought on the way out.

    Plug some holes next year with UFA/waiver journeymen, you know, the kind we watched go by this year.

    2012 forward you'd have something (the return) for nothing, if you go out and buy your man back.

    I hate it - because I Like having real NHL'ers, and I don't believe for a moment there's anything like the mindset here to actually fill holes next season like that, but I understand the notion at least.

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  127. L.T,

    If there is one thing Lowe and 3.0 don't understand, its the need for real NHL players.

    PDO says Dreger is saying MTL is hot after 27 and it will cost a first and a prospect.

    As per PDO "Deal hemsky or penner for nilsson, plante and o'marra and we are 15 kinds of fucked"

    I agree with him.

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  128. IF THIS QUERY IS COMPLETELY UNRELATED TO THE CURRENT DISCUSSION, I APOLOGIZE. I'M TOO MUCH OF A LUDITE TO BE ABLE TO SWITCH BETWEEN TYPING A NOTE ( which takes me 25 minutes to complete ) AND THE GDT.
    OK, so here's my question, addressed to all those to whom god has given the wisdom to know such things. First some context and hypotheticals:
    I believe there is zero chance that Penner will re-sign with the Oil and that the Oilers' management is aware of this. I further believe there are other g.m's who are aware of this and that there is one particular g.m. who knows that Penner would/will sign with his team for "reasonable $'s +term" after his current contract expires at the end of the 2011/12 season. I believe g.m.'s who might have been interested in talking about a Penner trade with the Oilers are dissuaded, or at least inclined to offer less in return, knowing he will not re-sign with them.
    My question is this: "How difficult, or easy, would it be for an NHL player and a future g.m. to get the word out through indirect channels/rumours etc. that said player will not re-sign with any team that he is traded to, other than Team X , without making themselves very vulnerable to tampering charges? Some risk, of course, but a mangeable one.
    There are several 'yes buts' that I anticipate and would like to address, before I ask you to respond to my question:
    1)" To suggest, even hypothetically, that any NHL g.m. would operate in a manner that didn't meet the highest ethical standards is absurd and offensive".
    I'm afraid I have no rejoinder to this particular ' yes but' and can only apologize to all who have taken offense.
    2)" But what motive would a g.m. have to engage in such shenanigans" ?
    Short answer; Oilers would be forced to trade Mr.P. to Team X if they wish to move him and get a reasonable return.

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  129. I'm confused. Is this game only being broadcast in HD?

    ReplyDelete
  130. Yay Simpson doing color.

    I won't have to listen to Weekes felate Khabby the whole game.

    ReplyDelete
  131. Bloggers take note, Glen Healy is putting on a stat-based analysis clinic.

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  132. ribs - CBC

    Irv - you know that the only number of people that can successfully keep a secret is one, right?

    LT - Unfortunately, all but one of the years we did not have enough for were before the rebuild started. improving after a 1-year rebuild is counter-productive.

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  133. yeah but Hughson doing the color. hold for the 'in comparison the Vancouver Canucks...'

    ReplyDelete
  134. Magnus, you have a better shot than Sam. Don't pass it back next time.

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  135. These two teams are incapable of slowing down the neutral zone. Should be fun.

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  136. The price to get Hemmer keeps rising. LOVE IT

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  137. Nice effort by Pacioretty there. Lots of heart.

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  138. CSimpson & Woodguy:

    A sixth might not seem like a lot for Ruutu, but that trade could be more about the money saved by dumping his 1.3 mil contract than the return.

    The draft pick value charts made by Oilswell way back when seem to indicate the difference in value between a 4th and 6th is pretty minor, but dumping Ruutu now saves ~300K, which seems like it would be worth more than the difference between a 4th and 6th rounder. Not to mention that by moving him now you have the certainty of having traded him - there's no chance he gets hurt and thus makes himself untradeable before the deadline if you trade him now.

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  139. Man we have lots of bad defensemen. Probably 20.

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  140. Damn, Jacques is a bad player. How can a big hitter be that bad at helping the puck along the wall? Seriously, he's as bad as Lupul at it and that's something.

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  141. WTF was that? I'm so not used to seeing the Oilers hem another team into their zone.

    Also keep talking Chorney up Hughson, maybe we can package him with something at the deadline =).

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  142. How many times this year have we seen the 4th line trapped out there against the other team's best, after icing the puck?

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  143. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  144. OT Arena thought:

    IF there is going to be a ticket tax anyways, I wonder if that's the mechanism by which the city could guarantee the CRL?

    ie. Leave the tax in place for, say, 6 years. If, after 6 years, the CRL area has truly been revitalized and is now "paying for itself", then you can either lift or reduce the ticket tax. If it hasn't, leave the ticket tax in place. Repeat each year until the city's investment is repaid.

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  146. Woodguy:

    The reason I think that might be a money trade is I read Murray say something about OTT readjusting their budget for next year, which presumably means spending less.

    Maybe they also think they can finish bottom 3 this year just as easily spending 4 mil less than they would if they don't dump guys at the deadline? In fact, maybe they save money AND improve their draft pick?

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  147. Speeds,

    If Katz is getting non-hockey revenue handed to them in a building they do not own, I don't know why the city doesn't demand that Katz guarantee the $ if the CRL doesn't do what its supposed to do.

    A ticket tax is a good way to generate revenue to pay back the city as well. User fees are elegant in efficiency.

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  148. Heatley is a moron.

    Just a 1st for Hemsky?

    Go fuck yourself.

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  149. Tambellini should buy Hrudey some drinks for making his job easier.

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  150. Funny slip by Healy re: Lowe being in charge. Dennis must have chuckled.

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  151. "From Kevin Lowe's standpoint it's all about building for the, um, from Kevin Lowe and Steve Tambellini's standpoint it's......."

    Dennis is thrilled.

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  152. Did he just say Cammalleri and Hemsky have great previous chemistry?

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  153. Speeds,

    No question.

    Was just mentioning to PDO today that Melnyk seems willing to spend to the cap to win, but wants a budget team while re-tooling.

    Will he do what Katz did and let the architects of failure have another kick at it?

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  154. That Hrudey Healey Hemsky thing seemed like a set piece but no one was set for it.

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  155. I'm starting to dread the trade deadline. They won't get value for 27 or 83. A return like the Smyth deal would clinch Lowe's 4-6 yr prophecy.

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  156. Derek, yes he did, according to Healy, Hemsky and Cammalleri have that history together of great chemistry.

    Must have been when they played for the L.A. together...er...Calgary together...um...I have it, when they played for the Czech national team together. Uh, Junior/College together?

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  157. Ctl had the period's first two chances - and they were good ones - but the Oilers wound up winning the first period battle 10-3.

    A couple of nice plays from 41 in the O zone and 10-83 look ready to go but 27 could be having one of his nights.

    Ctl's D was bad before the american got hurt but now it's even thinner so no way the Oil should lose this game as long as they don't go silly with penalties and Renney keeps matching 10 vs Ctl's top line.

    SH, LT etc all: I knew Lowe was in charge;) all along but especially after that first ep of Oil Change. I think it's only the MSM who are left as non-believers of my Lowe-sussing out acumen:)

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  158. With all these dmen going down around the league, it should be easy to ditch a couple of dmen. That's the silver lining.

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  159. Montreal's ground game was the key to that goal.

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  160. Well you can only turn over the puck about 8 times at the blue line before that happens. Who knew?

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  161. We should be cycling on these 5 Dmen at every opportunity.

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  163. So this is what it's like when two teams with no defense play.

    Fun last place hockey indeed.

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  164. This game is entertaining and fucking awful at the same time. There's been two games' worth of turnovers so far.

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  165. Somebody left the firewagons out. This is what Jacques Lemaire would call ugly hockey.

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  166. anyone catch Hughson in the 1st say 'as we like to call him here on HNIC, Teddy Peckman'?

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  167. The kid line has never looked more like a line of kids in a league of men.

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  168. Jon, there was a sequence there with what seemed like 3 consecutive turnovers, all in the neutral zone. I don't think I've ever seen that before.

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  169. I agree, lots of over handling the puck and shots into shin pads this evening for the young guys.

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  170. Mara getting traded officially makes 26 trade-able.

    Its like the hockey gods came down and created the only situation where 26 would have trade value.

    v3.0 better move his terrible ass.

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  171. Smid has finally done it. He's concussed himself.

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  172. Smid just knocked the shit out of himself.

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  173. Smid should get 4 minutes for that; it's a dangerous play.

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