This is Ryan Strome. The skilled C-R is ranked in the top 10 for 2011's entry draft by both Redline Report and International Scouting Services. Both sources have him at #7 for February. The question is: should he be ranked higher? Is he among the very best players available in this year's draft. Math thinks Strome is very, very good.
DESJARDINS NHLE'S (82gp)
- Ryan Strome 12-29-41
- Sean Couturier 15-25-40
- Jonathan Huberdeau 15-21-36
- Ryan Nugent-Hopkins 8-28-36
- Gabriel Landeskog 17-16-33
- Alexander Khokhlachev 15-15-30
- Joel Armia 18-8-26
- Nicklas Jensen 13-13-26
- Mark McNeill 10-15-25
- Brandon Saad 12-11-23
- "He's a guy who's got just great puck skills; he dangles with the puck and has got great speed. Really, he doesn't need any time or space to get his shot away. He has a knack for getting to open ice."
The source is Kirk Luedeke at Bruins Draft Watch, article is here. The top 4 in this draft on pretty much all of the lists are Larsson, RNH, Landeskog and Couturier. Does Strome belong in the conversation?
LT: Hypothetically, if the Oil get the 1st pick in the draft and through trade picked up another pick in the 5-10 range, what would you do? Take Larsson and then a lower ranked centre such as Huberdeau or Strome, or take SC/RNH and then a lower ranked d-man such as Hamilton or Murphy? I'd go for the former option, there seem to be a lot of good centres coming through this draft and picking up a slightly lower ranked one isn't a bad option.
ReplyDeleteEasyOil: I'd just take the bpa. I know that sounds ridiculous (what if you have two top 5 picks and end up with 2 C's?) but the idea is to max the value.
ReplyDeleteMy top 5 currently:
1. Couturier
2. Larsson
3. Landeskog
4. Strome
5. RNH
How big is this kid?
ReplyDeleteWill be interesting, the puffs of smoke seem to say they want Larsson.
The Islanders keep on winning so it looks like its us and Ottawa. I wonder who the Sens like.
6.01, 183.
ReplyDeleteOHL lists him as 6.01 and 183lbs but I don't know how current that is (hockeydb says 5.11 and 160, but I think that might be old).
ReplyDeleteI would be concerned with size too, but I don't know that it is an issue with this guy. I think he is doing well with an EV/PP stats breakdown, right? Because, imo, we can discount anyone who is putting up the majority of their points at PP (I'm looking at you RNH).
yeah that's my concern with RHN as well, the whole PP thing
ReplyDeleteOilers will at worst get their second choice, if I were a betting man I would say the Sens go with the Landeskog
Lt
ReplyDeleteIs there a place to listen to archived shows. Had family stuff yesterday and listened to about 5 minutes with Gabe Desjardins
Think Taylor Hall has really gotten it and his trajectory moving forward is gonna be very interesting to see
He's having a very Seguin type year. How does a player's stats jump like that? 30 points to probably over 100 points.
ReplyDeleteI do like that he actually has some pim's. He only has 6 pp goals and 2 sh. He could be the Skinner of this draft.
The only time I seen him play was the prospect game. The players that stood out for me in that game were RNH, Huberdeau, Murphy anf Hamilton. Strome had some nice rushes in that game as well.
Actually, he does have some huge PP numbers. Here's the breakdown:
ReplyDelete54 games played
EV: 19-35-54
PP: 6-28-34
PK: 2-0-2
So, 1/1 at evs. Here's Hall from last season:
57 games played
EV: 22-33-55
PP: 14-32-46
PK: 4-1-5
The Senators have traded Fisher and Kelly. They have Carlsson, Rundblad, and Cowan.
ReplyDeleteOdds are they will take a centre or Landeskog rather than Larsson.
LT: I posed this question to the pipeline show guys last weekend LT, and they didn't really seem to have an explanation either. I can't remember exactly where in the show they responded, otherwise I'd let you know and you could hear what they had to say from their archives. Did you happen to hear that before your show started last week?
ReplyDeleteFrom memory, Guy said he was wondering about that as well, Dean said he was seen to be as explosive, or dynamic, I can't remember his exact phrasing.
EasyOil:
You didn't ask me, but I'll answer anyways. At this point, I'd take Couturier and probably Strome, though I do like the sounds of both D you mentioned. I'd hate to have a F like strome rated ahead of the D available, draft for perceived need there and see Strome become a much better player than either D.
People post and talk about having "too many top 6 forwards". Someone should let PHI know that they've got to start trading away "top 6 forwards" because they have too many.
There's nothing wrong with having a 3rd line other teams wish was their 2nd. The issue is cap room, and that's not a big deal until the future. So worry about it then, because you build better asset value if Strome is in the NHL playing good minutes than if you draft an inferior D and he's in the AHL at 22, even though Strome might be finishing his ELC and looking for a big pay raise while the D has a year left on his ELC in the AHL.
Of course, it's fair to note I'm exaggerating the projected difference, maybe it's hyperbole, but I think it's fair to illustrate the point.
Those seem like pretty decent splits (especially when compared with Hall's). I wonder why he is rated much lower than the other guys who get talked about all the time (RNH, SC, Landeskog and Larsson)?
ReplyDeleteI still am leaning towards Larsson, but then I rode the Seguin train all the way to the natural PP hatrick last night, so I am likely a pretty poor opinion regarding talent.
Its a good question as to what OTT needs/wants in its top-two draft (btw, isn't it patriotically heart-warming to see so many Canadian teams racing to achieve 30th place in the league? Its almost like the owners and GMs of those teams believe they have a hostage audience and can do whatever they want).
Bar Qu Said:"isn't it patriotically heart-warming to see so many Canadian teams racing to achieve 30th place in the league? Its almost like the owners and GMs of those teams believe they have a hostage audience and can do whatever they want."
ReplyDeleteWhat?!? They don't... you mean I can walk away? NNNNOOOOOO, say it ain't so!
Who the F@ck is Gary Bettman to trash Edmonton and the Rink like that in front of a television audience? If a GM OR OWNER were to make Comments about another teams RINK or BUILDING MODEL theyd get fined! Like the Saddledome isnt in any worse shape? Why doesnt Bettman attended a Tuesday game in Phoenix with ther fancy arena and address the 6400 fans sitting there about the state of the NHL! What a stab in the back to KATZ? and the City of Edmonton, no wonder we have a hard time attracting Free agents!
ReplyDeleteDo Something with Bettman! shit has he ever been to Atlanta? ot Long Island? those arenas suck ass!
Yeah I'm with you Godot, I don't think Ottawa takes Larsson.
ReplyDeleteAnd I think Speeds hit the nail on the head - its always bpa. Always.
Bettman is just concerned Edmonton won't get any concerts, how many times did he say concert? (referring to non-hockey revenue??). Always an angle.
ReplyDeleteIt was a drive-by. The Katz group probably felt a need to bully the city and this was a way of doing it without saying anything.
ReplyDeleteIt's quite brilliant, actually.
I remain mystified by the Katz group's inability to see any kind of middle ground (which is where this will land) but expect we'll see his exit plan at some point.
One thing is certain: we're not going to like it.
I wouldn't be upset at Bettman, though. He's doing what he's supposed to do as an employee of the NHL owners. When they say jump, he does.
It's his job.
Be Honest! Should we really take a DMAN if we have the 1st overall pick? Is Larsson that head over heels better then any of the others? ya we need D! We all seem to know that! LOVE Speeds comment about too many TOP 6 fwds. yes that the exact model we should look at! how many of there Dmen were drafted by PHI? I wouldnt want everyone to be dissapointed when Larsson ends up being a 40 pt Dman in the NHL while Hopkins, Landeskog and Couturier become 65-80 PT fwds... WE WILL ALL HAVE HINDSIGHT BIAS here! That will be the reality of it! The odds are just set that way! Now if there were 3D men in the Top5 I would say OK lets draft a Dman! there isnt, he who takes Larsson runs that risk! I would agree aquiring another Top pick would give us the freedom of taking both a Dman and Forward. but hey what about next years draft???? how are the D crops? if we finished with a 5th overal pick next year is it possible we could take OUR needed Dman next year? the scouting department i'm sure should have a heads up for next year anyway! I like the idea of trading for some D prospects with the assests we own, maybe D prospects who run a lower risk of failing to develop and adjust to the NHL level.
ReplyDeleteYou just wish that Bettman could be more charismatic - like a 'cleaner' for a drug mafia or soulless corporation. They at least make movies about those guys.
ReplyDeleteLowetide, agree on the tactic by Bettman, just like the ownership trip to Quebec, hang the threat of leaving over everyone. Done either directly or in more subtle ways.
ReplyDeleteQuebec city and the provincial government there are apparently splitting the costs of their arena project. Haven't seen much discussion about this in Oiler land, big implications I would think, despite no federal money.
I'd rather take Larsson first, than trade the 31st or 32nd pick with Dustin Penner for Nikolai Kulemin.
ReplyDeleteYes, speeds is totally right. It's not possible to have too many top six forwards. Most of the time when fans flagellate over this topic it's because their team's roster contains a whack of players that are not top six players anyway. The Lupul, Comrie, Brule, Cogliano, Schremp types who are pretty terrible players without the puck but get called "second liners" because of the video game mentality. If you've got too many of those players you have a problem of a different sort.
ReplyDeleteDo Something with Bettman! shit has he ever been to Atlanta? ot Long Island? those arenas suck ass!
ReplyDeleteAtlanta has a pretty nice arena.
The whole arena thing is a scam. I find it particularly disturbing that the NHL's open strategy for growth is to increase "non-hockey related revenue". At this point it's all hockey revenue because the NHL has a mandate that every team should have control over the building. The only reason teams get these municipal concessions is because of the hockey team.
Meanwhile they let a half dozen teams rot in horrible markets with pathetic gate receipts. The owners are not behaving honourably in their partnership with the players. In fact they appear to be actively holding back HRR while seeking massive subsidies to "invest" in non-HRR.
BarQu--I raised the question of why a disproportionate number of Canadian teams were doing poorly in the standings last week and ONE possibility I suggested was that perhaps American owners/GMs were better at the business of putting together and maintaining good teams, generally speaking.
ReplyDeleteHowever I was extensively shat upon for this, as most commenters were offended that even the suggestion that their nationality was lesser than the Americans and Jingoism reigned. They focused on this "suggestion" alone, rather than address the issue I raised. Some went so far as to say I was stupid.
Unfortunately no one really addressed why the Cdn teams.
You in effect are venturing that perhaps one of the reasons is that the US team owners/GMs don't have to be as competitive beacause they don't have a "captive market"
like the Cdn teams do. I tend to agree that this may be a factor. For example, if a US team is competing with other pro teams in that market and is doing poorly in the standings and this extends to gate receipts, the GM might be quicker to get better players or to change the coach. Likewise an owner may be quicker to replace the GM.
Or maybe the present state of the Oilers, Senators and Leafs is only a statistical anomoly and is subject to correction in the fullness of time and the universe is unfolding as it was meant to.
In other words, this may not be a subject worthy of discussion and all we have to do is be patient. The Oilers will rise again, eventually! I just wish I was still 21.
As a stab at some levity, Peter Pocklington is an American businessman (albeit now) and he was the owner of one of the greatest dynasties in the NHL. He won Gretzky, hired Sather who hired Fraser etc. Five Stanleys, count them, FIVE. Pocklington is now under house arrest,unfortunately.
Oh wait, the logic doesn't work.
Strome should be in the conversation. Any kid who scores lots of goals and has decent size should be in the conversation.
ReplyDeleteUnless he has a major issue somewhere that is. If it's not the case I don't see which he shouldn't be. If that kid outscores the others i'd be troubled to know how the hell he does it while being a worst hockey player.
Of course the difference between him and Couturier seems marginal so i'd still go for the big guy, considering his humongous +- and size.
So yeah, Strom in the race, definitly.
You don't use your top 10 picks to try to draft f'ckin grinders (Nieedderreiiiter)
"There is interest in Edmonton D Kurtis Foster if the Oilers decide they want to move him "
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ottawasun.com/sports/hockey/2011/02/19/17340671.html
Sounds like there may well be interest in Foster at the deadline?
Garrioch has a couple other Oilers tidbits in there.
Any comments on what Strome does without the puck? Does he win puck battles? Is he eager to engage in them?
ReplyDeleteI prefer djangoism myself.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6jwvS0mHwo
Garrioch has this this morning:
ReplyDeleteThe Oilers could deal a lot of players, but the sense is they'd like RW Ales Hemsky to be part of the solution, which means it's doubtful he'll be moved. GM Steve Tambellini would more likely deal RW Dustin Penner, C Gilbert Brule, D Jim Vandermeer and D Ladislav Smid. Any club that wants G Nikolai Khabublin can have him for very little ...
Ha! Just saw speeds post something from Garrioch too when I checked the post.
I didn't see the Foster thing. Moving him would be a very good thing.
The Lupul, Comrie, Brule, Cogliano, Schremp types who are pretty terrible players without the puck but get called "second liners" because of the video game mentality.
ReplyDeleteIn the last 15 games Robbie Schremp has 5pts and has gone -13. His icetime has been trimmed down from about 18 minutes a night to somewhere between 11-13.
Too bad MacT wrecked him.
Lebowski you probably would have been better off saying that some American teams didn't feel compelled to hire within the old boys club that many of the Canadian franchises are gripped with.
ReplyDeleteYou went off on some nationalism tangent. I didn't really read it but I'm not surprised you got shat on.
I find it particularly disturbing that the NHL's open strategy for growth is to increase "non-hockey related revenue".
ReplyDeleteRiversQ,
The NHL's strategy is to increase non-hockey related revenue?? They getting into ringette?
Did you mean to say "non-ticket" revenue?
I've read that Strome has an outstanding work ethic, both on and off ice. If it comes down to intangibles, he is definitely a top five pick.
ReplyDeleteI've read some reports from icedog fans that's he's not very good defensively and right now he has a very weak game along the boards. If he's a one-dimensional talent it might explain his lower ranking.
ReplyDeleteIf you listen to the NHL, Edmontonians are not doing enough by filling Rexall to watch a terrible team. Edmontonians have to spend more to support the Phoenix and Long Island teams through revenue sharing. Why aren't Edmontonians helping Katz out with his non-hockey revenue?
ReplyDeleteEdmonton city council needs someone to call Bettman's bluff and say, 'Don't let the door hit you in the ass...' The NHL is in no position to screw with a very stable location for a team at this time. Why doesn't the city understand this?
People fighting to be taken advantage of makes absolutely no sense to me.
Jake - Soaking two different levels of taxpayers isn't exactly 'splitting' or a compromise. Unlike Quebec City, in Edmonton there already is a billionaire owner who has the means to participate in the splitting. (I suspect Katz's $100MM is gonna come from seat licenses. i.e. none of the money is actually his.)
On twitter, Rishaug suggests the Caps might be kicking tires on Hemsky.
ReplyDeleteWSH is pretty deep in prospects, I think they'd have the assets to get Hemsky but would they be willing to part with the ones EDM might want?
Not sure if Alzner or Carlson would be available, I doubt it for Carlson in particular, but I got the impression from listening to MacGregor heading into the draft last year that he liked Kuznetsov. They've also got Eakin, Marcus Johansson, Orlov, draft picks.
Also, for what's it's worth:
ReplyDelete1a Larsson
1b Couturier
1c RNH
2 Landeskog
3 Strome
It would be really interesting to see where Ottawa ranks Larsson since his SEL coach used to work in a scouting capacity for the Sens. One would think they will know the intimate details of his abilities and projected upside.
LT, Djangoism is just awful.
ReplyDeleteI'm more a traditional Jangoist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5jAwXmPRlQ
Ducey - Riv was using the terminology from the CBA. The hockey-related revenue is split with the players and is also subject to revenue-sharing. In Edmonton, Northlands gets the non-hockey stuff. Katz wants to get that piece in its entirety. Never mind that right now, that money is being used to offset the $1/year lease rate that the Oilers currently pay for Rexall.
ReplyDeleteFree isn't good enough. It has to be less than free.
The NHL's strategy is to increase non-hockey related revenue?? They getting into ringette?
ReplyDeleteThe Oilers want all the concession revenue from the new building.
Because what's fair is fair.
Awful? You want awful?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eha7OpIc_FI&feature=related
Man, that Betty makes me walk funny
ReplyDeleteLowetide: Stephan Grappelli used to occasionally play in Edmonton, in the 70's.
ReplyDeleteYanks aren't any better than anyone else. Ottawa stinks because they had a shot at the cup and it went away, they're in a down cycle. Happens to everyone.
Calgary and Edmonton both went to the finals as cinderella teams and each are coping in their own way - Oilers rebuilding and Flames living in a feckless dream.
The Leafs are simply owned by poisonous human beings, and are doomed to perpetually suck forever. Which is too bad, since if they ever won the cup(21st century) it would probably do more for the NHL than anyone else.
Not too sure about the Habs, but the Canucks are poised to win the President's trophy, and regrettably are my personal favourites to make the finals if not win the cup. Winning the cup might shut up their silly fans, which is a good thing in itself.
PS: Oilers have Taylor Hall, and Jordan Eberle. Hockey being a game of pure talent far more than other team sports imo, Kevin Lowe actually has got a point about competing for the cup in a few years, not by some fluke like in 2006 - but by having a player(s) who literally can steal games when they matter.
PPS: WTF is this with Strome? Are we already gearing ourselves up to get a top 10 pick? Whatever happened to Larsson, etc? :p
isn't it patriotically heart-warming to see so many Canadian teams racing to achieve 30th place in the league? Its almost like the owners and GMs of those teams believe they have a hostage audience and can do whatever they want).
ReplyDeleteI know its not popular to shoot down conspiracy theories on the Al Gore but perhaps its the audience holding the GM's hostage?
Why has Toronto sucked so long? Because they have never had to patience to do a proper rebuild. They have always had the revenue to chase the big fish, and there is always enormous pressure from the fanbase to be in on every big name and trade.
The pressure in the Canadian markets is much more intense. You think Lombardi could just sit back and watch his prospects develop if he was in MTL? He would be called "Dithers" or something.
Maybe its the fact that a lot of players would rather come to the rink in flip flops than play in EDM, OTT, or MTL.
Or maybe its just a cycle. BOS, PHI, TB, PHX, SJ, LA, WSH, PIT etc all sucked in recent memory. Or perhaps the GM's holding us hostage is just a new thing.
LT - in the infamous "Summer of '69" 'Sugar,Sugar' was #1 on Billboard's top 100!
ReplyDeleteBetty or Veronica? discuss.
If Katz moves the Oilers, he'll be leaving town with them.
ReplyDeleteTherefore he won't be moving the Oilers - he just wants to pressure the weak kneed politicians. Business 101 it's called.
I raised the question of why a disproportionate number of Canadian teams were doing poorly in the standings last week...
ReplyDeleteYou do know that there is only six Canadian teams in the thirty team league, right? As it sits now, three of them are in the top half of the league in points, and three are in the bottom half. It doesn't get more proportionate than that!
Betty. Veronica takes too long in the bathroom, would require round the clock care and won't be there when the money runs out and the engine blows.
ReplyDeleteBetty? She'll fix the engine for you after making lunch.
Betty, people. It's always been Betty.
Thanks for the clarification on the non-hockey revenue definition.
ReplyDeleteAnother question. Why do I care whether Katz gets this revenue or Northlands gets it so they can then waste it on subsidizing Horseracing?
And man, I am agreeing with Hunter too much these days. Time to start talking about whether Horcoff is a #1 C.
I'd rather take Larsson first, than trade the 31st or 32nd pick with Dustin Penner for Nikolai Kulemin.
ReplyDeleteOmark discussion earlier this summer
u23 20G season players in RSL/KHL the last 15 years.
Frolov
Ovechkin
Malkin
Semin
Kulemin
Omark
As for D:
The last 20 6'1"+ ppg 18yr dmen
Redden
Berrard
Boynton
fisher
hamhuis
Klesla
Bouwmeester
tyutin
Barker
Vlasic
Doughty
Blum
Del Zotto
Bogosian
Carlson
Kulikov
Gormely
Blain
Marincin
Both better be top 4 for 10-15 years.
Bogosian depends on what you give up.
Brad Richards has been confirmed to be dealing with concussion-like symptoms. - Dallas Morning News
ReplyDeleteIf there was any doubt.
I've liked the Strome kid for a while now but haven't seen enough of him to have any strong feelings about it. BPA til' I die, yo. He'd be great second pick if we wrangled one away from someone.
Ducey, they want the concert revenue. Monster truck revenue. All parking. All concessions. When the ringette team moves in, they want their cut of that too.
ReplyDeleteThe NHL loves this because it's an area where they don't have to share their cut with their partners. However, without their partners and ignorant complicit taxpayers, it's much harder to get.
Do you live in Edmonton?
"I'd rather take Larsson first, than trade the 31st or 32nd pick with Dustin Penner for Nikolai Kulemin."
ReplyDeleteBurke knows Penner and wants draft picks.
I missed this from Rishaug yesterday....
ReplyDeleteCaps and Oil have talked hemsky, nothing close as oil would want alzner or karlsson, not likely for caps.
Ovechkin and Hemsky would be sick.
Lowetide: Riddle me this. Samantha or Jeannie?
ReplyDeleteOilers are trading for Ovechkin!?
ReplyDeleteStrome is interesting in that he is a)a carbon copy of Hall playing center, b) he is the offense of Niagara, c)scored a number of highlight reel goals, d) was smart enough, when other teams started focusing on him, he started racking up 2/3 assists per game in the last month.
ReplyDeleteHe's just maturing at a later age, growing into his body, developmental curve.
Samantha. She was flat out hot. HOT. She was so hot no one noticed they changed husbands midstream. :-)
ReplyDeleteBettman is a complete douche. He was handed a script and whoever handed him the script forgot to tell him Edmonton has one of the best concert businesses in North America. So feel free to mention Edmonton needs access to good concerts.....douche!
ReplyDeleteCourse facts and reality are worth very little in this debate.
If you were the Thrashers and cannot find a majority owner they are moving. So when Katz drives up with the Mayflower trucks, remind your self Buff, Ladd, Kane, Bogosian would be a very good trade.
Dudley for KLowe and ST would be the best trade of the decade.
Wonder if we can get the Magnificent Bastard to stay?
"The Lupul, Comrie, Brule, Cogliano, Schremp types who are pretty terrible players without the puck but get called "second liners" because of the video game mentality.'
ReplyDelete"In the last 15 games Robbie Schremp has 5pts and has gone -13. His icetime has been trimmed down from about 18 minutes a night to somewhere between 11-13.
Too bad MacT wrecked him."
I think we can add Gagner to the list above.
Team worst -15 this season.
-45 for his career.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteJennie
ReplyDeleteAll the way!
I would go for Jughead over Traktor.
ReplyDeleteThe Caps talking about 83 worries me just because they do have a lot of prospects to dangle so that might be something that could click.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I dare say they're sick of not taking the extra step in the playoffs and I don't think they can beat Philly if the playoffs started today.
Lots of interesting stuff from Garrioch's piece and though I've been down on 26 - and he has played terrible - I could see him bouncing back next year.
At least offensively.
Yesterday he walked into the high slot with a great chance and didn't even put the puck on net and I just laughed because he's having a terrible year. But maybe it's just the pcts are against him and he'll come back strong in 2012.
That being said we have enough dmen who can't play D or who are young and understandably stupid and we don't need an older dummy and/or pylon on our blue.
Anyway, from what Garrioch is saying the interest is there but the Oilers haven't officially put him on the block.
I'd say look for a team in the East that's familiar with the good 26 and that needs a PP QB and this could get done.
he seems like a super nice guy and he's coming off a hard time with some family issues and I hope he does well in his next stop.
@ Bos8
ReplyDeleteStorm is17. So not really late on any developmental curve.
Back when we did the draft review I think I was the only guy who had Strome ahead of RNH.
ReplyDeleteJust sayin.
But its nice to be joined by a few others.
How does Strome's team score compared to other teams, like RNH's or Hall's? What percentage of goals is Strome involved with? What does he have for linemates compared to the other guys?
I think he looks good in all those areas.
He had a massive growth spurt this past year, and I don't believe he knows yet how to exploit that physicality.
But he's quicker than SC, so I think he has to be in the conversation for 2nd or 3rd overall.
LT - Forget Betty and Veronica; Cheryl Blossom for the win.
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes to the draft, don't pick the Dman (drafting D too high, bad stats) or the shrimp when there are big, talented point-producers around.
BPA always. I have a hard time believing that either Larsson or Hopkins are BPA.
Brave & Strome - Gooder
ReplyDeleteConsidering that he got sucker punched by Hishon and is out with a concussion.
Apparently he was beaking at a kid and got decked. His Coach got five games, Hishon got six. Referee apparently told the coach that Strome deserved what he got and the coach went ballistic.
I like the kid already even though he forgot to duck. You wanna yap be prepared to back it up. "Life's like that kid".
Trak: I'm not an 89 fanboy - I like the kid but i Would deal him - but he's drowning playing with 91-23.
ReplyDelete13 gets the talented kid combo and the vets are together and 89 is playing with the young swedes.
that isn't helping him; plus the fact that for awhile renney wasn't even bothering to try to match. that's changed in the last little while - and let's see how interested he is in getting good matchups on the road - but for awhile people were keying on the new 89 line and what can you expect.
What would Edmonton have to give up to get Nikolai Kulemin ?
ReplyDeleteAlso, someone already mentioned this but I wonder if the success of Skinner will prompt someone to go off board and take a guy like Stome a little higher than everyone anticipates.
ReplyDeletehe looks like a seguin type with the big RH pivot model so how is he in his own end?
still, as Pat says, if Matty's talking about the Oilers taking Larsson then that's likely where we're headed.
Anon: it's a non-starer.
ReplyDeleteit's like someone looking for us to give up 91.
Jeannie (and her bare midriff) calling him 'Master' - and it ain't even close.
ReplyDeleteI did notice the new Darren and he sucked.
Latest RLR came out 2 days ago, btw.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/columnist/woodlief/2011-02-18-red-line-report_N.htm
Katz's Plan B will be building an arena outside Edmonton City limits in the west end. A suburban arena sucks (see Kanata), but Ottawa proves that it does work. The Henday is already built to facilitate traffic from the south Edmonton. He'll be able to collect more parking revenue (no public transit, and he would own all the lots). ETS loses all that offpeak LRT traffic going downtown for games and concerts.
ReplyDeleteKatz can build his arena anywhere. He chose downtown primarily to benefit the City of Edmonton.
It is a shared risk propositon. And yes I expect that Katz will have no choice to agree to a pretty significant ticket tax to amelioriate the risk to the city.
The Oilers and the WHA would have never existed without the bold vision of Bill Hunter and the willingness to accept some risk.
LT: Ya, that's awful-er, you win. I give. Uncle! Just make it stop.
ReplyDeleteOne for the road.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApJofhrLeeY
@SumOil
ReplyDeleteWe all went through growth spurts and it took a while for the muscle structure to catch up at various times in our teens. Some mature later than others. Strome shouldn't be handicapped because he is still growing later than the others.
I'd have the scouts do the "Puppy Test" on Strome and RNH.
NJD just put a claim in for Souray.
ReplyDeleteDevils put in claim for Souray as per twitter account: "NHL Sources Say"
ReplyDeleteNo idea if he's credible, not sure how I got to follow him/her.
Godot10: So Katz will build this building for how much of his own money? $100M? More? Which municipality is going to pay for the difference?
ReplyDeleteI think you're right that this is a potential leverage point, but I'm not sure it has been explored and it's certainly worse than downtown for all sides. For Katz it could be so much worse that it's not even feasible.
godot said:
ReplyDeleteKatz can build his arena anywhere.
That's just bullshit. Without a partner that is willing to eat the financing costs for 75% of the project, it is not viable.
Unlike taxpayers, real partners have to be paid back.
Per Bettman, we also need an arena to attract more "ice shows". I so wholeheartedly agree. Nothing will make the arena deal go through like revenue from a few more ramshackle ice capades shows. Washed up figure skaters in dog and bunny costumes will seal the deal.
ReplyDeleteIt occurs to me that most probably don't know why I called this post brave and strome.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnlrKIhAQbs&playnext=1&list=PLAA4A602230F9A987
The Oilers and the WHA would have never existed without the bold vision of Bill Hunter and the willingness to accept some risk.
ReplyDeleteOk then, what is the risk that Katz will bear under his current proposal?
I would be happy with a big ticket tax. $15/ticket would pay back $200M in twenty years, so it arguably needs to be higher than that. My microeconomics is rusty, but I think the impact of a sales tax is roughly split between buyer and seller. This would mean that under a ticket tax Katz would split the remaining arena cost with the users deferred over 10-20 years, which seems more fair to me.
We're discussing Hemsky to the Caps rumours and nobody has touched on their goalie stable yet? One of Varlamov, Neuvirth or Holtby would have to be part of a package, if I'm pulling that trigger.
ReplyDeleteMark McNeill must be climbing some lists. If the Oil manage to get a mid-20s pick and he's still on the board, I'd like to see them take him.
ReplyDeleteYou're all crazy...
ReplyDeleteMelody the drummer from Josie & the Pussycats is clearly the superior choice.
Missed Nation Radio after a few too many on Friday. Hope the show went well, LT. Looking forward to when they get it uploaded :)
I've said it before, but Montreal made a name in the 70s and 80s of trading away plays to help stock pile 1st round picks. At one point in the 70s they had 5 1st rounders, and 4 first rounders maybe a couple years earlier. They definitely were very hit and miss with those drafts, but they also landed some all-stars and hall of famers out of these moves too, including picking up Guy Lafleur by acquiring the #1 overall pick.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure this group is quite so deep as others, but I think it would be great if they could stock up a few 1st rounders this year and draft Larsson, perhaps one of the centers and another D option, if possible.
It might even be a good idea to look to next year too, as far as stocking up on picks for 2012 draft too. Not that it will come easy to scoop up picks, but if we're moving big assets like Hemsky or Penner...
I remember being taken to the see Ice Capades as a kid - other than getting to stay up late on a school night it was one of the most depressings moments of my entire childhood.
ReplyDeleteWhy anyone with access to an ice rink would pay money to watch that crap is still beyond my comprehension.
That should say "trading away players", not "plays"
ReplyDeleteDo the Caps have a single elite prospect? I honestly don't know. It sounds like another bunch of magic beans though. Just checked their draft list - I don't see anything special.
ReplyDeleteEspecially the goalies - there's so much parity at that position it doesn't deserve to have major resources thrown at it. Unless they change the rules, there are 25-30 good goalies in the NHL every year. Spending UFA money, 1st rounders, or dealing major players like Hemsky to get one seems like such a waste to me.
What's the word on WSH's pick from last year? Apparently, this Kuznetsov was drafted from Chelyabinsk Dumbass (KHL).
ReplyDeleteJamie Oleksiak (Northeastern University) — Biggest man in the entire draft, and plays a solid brand of defense, too. Even developing some puckhandling skills. What's not to like?
ReplyDelete"Offensively plays within himself, but helps generate opportunities – very smart shooter who tries to set up deflections and rebounds. Defensively he still has room for improvement, but I've watched him get better over the year — starting to engage more physically. Size, speed and puck skills make him a must-see and an intriguing target for the back end of the first."
I've been banging it for a while, but my Jamie Oleksiak drum is going to be worn through by draft day. Big brain. Bigger body. Improving game to game. Hope he drops to 31 somehow, but much more keen on Oil getting a mid to late first and scooping him up.
Quotes are from Woodlief's article that was linked earlier.
ReplyDeleteRiversQ:
ReplyDeleteI was just about to say that I think one can argue Kuznetsov has elite potential. He's at 32 pts in 44 games in the KHL as an 18 year old, I don't have the team or league scoring stats handy but that seems pretty good for an 18 year old in that league.
At the WJHC he finished 2nd in scoring as an 18 year old (he's eligible to play next year as well). He was more inconsistent than one might have liked to see, but incandescent at his best.
Okay, after the tacky, the goody.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWTjjm-Gg3c&feature=related
Drafting couturier will be a mistake. He is daigle part 2
ReplyDeleteIf Hemsky wants to stay then sign him. Trading a top six forward, even with his injury issues, for anything less than a top four Dman or a C for one of the top lines makes absolutely no sense.
ReplyDeleteKeep your good players unless you know they are going to walk.
Kulemin is outstanding. No way the Leafs trade him unless they hit an absolute home run. He's big, fast, scores goals, is defensively responsible, the list goes on and on. Plus he's cheap, right now at least.
Hopefully a guy like Hamilton or Paajarvi will evolve into that type of player, God knows the Oilers need them.
Anon: What? Daigle was known to shy away from contact and not being able to fill his frame, while being a media attracter.
ReplyDeleteCouturier is already big, and just shys away from media attention.
Speeds: It's an elite prospect here are some 18 years old comparables.
Ovechkin: 27 in 37
Malkin: 32 in 52
Yashin: 22 in 27
Bure: 25 in 46
Fedorov: 29 in 49
He's in a pretty special group.
Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteHey, this is fun, let's dump on all the top picks.
Drafting Larsson will be a mistake. He is Zyuzin part 2.
Drafting Landeskog will be a mistake. He is Torres part 2.
Drafting RNH will be a mistake. He is Stefan part 2.
I actually liked Bettman's take. He said some things at needed to be said. The Oilers have one of the oldest arenas and one of the worst stadium deals.
ReplyDeleteIMO, the new arena would already be moving forward by now if it weren't for that massive monkey wrench called Northlands,
Besides, there's no reason to get upset, this is just more posturing by Katz/NHL.
As for Strome, we better not pass up a top center prospect or especially a top of the decade defenseman prospect solely due to size.
The Foster item is in the 'This and That' paragraph.
ReplyDeleteHe also mentions Kenopka as being available from the Isles. Does anyone know if buddy has any worth at all. I know he's supposed to be excellent on the draw and he likes the rough stuff but can he do anything else? Can he PK?
BD: Nope, 11,56 GA/ON60 on the PK.
ReplyDeleteI watch him a couple of times a year. He's a goon who can win draws.
Rick said...
ReplyDeleteI actually liked Bettman's take. He said some things at needed to be said. The Oilers have one of the oldest arenas and one of the worst stadium deals.
What do the Oilers pay in rent again? What are the comparable deals out there for NHL clubs? I don't accept this as fact without any supporting evidence.
My problem with the argument is that newer stadiums under supposedly better deals were obtained by bilking the public elsewhere.
You don't need to get mad at it, but I think you do need to recognize when facts are misrepresented and posturing occurs. Otherwise it gets too readily accepted.
Rick siad:
ReplyDeleteThe Oilers have one of the oldest arenas and one of the worst stadium deals.
Which were both pre-existing conditions when Katz bought the Oilers. In spite of the negatives, the Oil are still profitable enough to subsidize other NHL franchises.
Nothing to fix here. Katz is a big boy.
Hmm, looks like he is third set of PK forwards, second now that Comeau is out but they may just send him out to take the draws.
ReplyDeleteMinus 12. Schremp is -18. The only guy worse is Tavares who is -20.
I wonder what it would take to pry Frans Nielson loose. Probably heaven and earth. #1 PK guy, 32 points and he is a plus 8 on that horror show.
Hopefully Lander can evolve into someone similar.
fpb - well a goon who can win draws is better than the goon we have now ;)
ReplyDeleteBD: Haha. But we don't really ''Need'' a goon anyway :P.
ReplyDeleteWe can buy out his pimpin' stereo and it'l be good.
Apparently the twitter account I quoted is a piece of crap.
ReplyDeleteLoophole Lou quoted as saying "no chance" he'll put in a claim for Souray.
Jenn and I put a claim in on Souray. We need a butler.
ReplyDeleteAnd he can play for Capsule until he gets hurt.
Diane Lane and I considered putting in a claim but then I woke up.
ReplyDeleteDo you live in Edmonton?
ReplyDeleteYup. Have worked downtown for 20 years, during which time I have seen many businesses and a lot of my friends move elsewhere (a lot to Calgary) because EDM keeps its head in the sand.
We have been absolutely raped of all our head offices while Calgary has worked hard to attract them. I know for a fact that the former mayor of Calgary regularly called CEO's in EDM and asked them what it would take to move. Meanwhile we ignore or shit on them.
Now we have a guy who wants to invest $200 M in the downtown, and there are a bunch of people who can't find enough bad things to say about the guy. The deal would be huge for EDM. There are a lot of business people on the sidelines watching who will jump in if it goes ahead. It will make a big difference to this City.
Katz is negotiating. I expect the final deal will be different.
I frankly would be fine if the City just put $200M in the deal. Its a drop in the bucket and we regularly waste that every year on building off ramps to South Edmonton Common, roads and sewers etc, to developments so developers can make millions, and other projects that do nothing but turn this City into Winnipeg.
Oh, yeah, and it would be good for the Oilers. And the Oilers are good for EDM.
Northlands is pathetic. I can't see much that they do well. And it doesn't seem to me to make much difference to the City if they get concert revenue or Katz does.
Anyway, I hope it gets done.
Lebowski:
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't so much jingoism that lead to the majority of dissent expressed towards your comments, it was that they were stupid.
I didn't say it the first time but I will this time. Sorry if that hurts the feelers.
The statement an American is better than Canadian at any business isn't an topical debate
anyone but a whitless fool would galantly ride off into battle over.
Now, your trying to duct tape your previous declaration onto the subject of results based performance in Canadian and American sports markets...doesn't really jive. Sorry again if I hurt your feelers.
1. Americans are better than Canadians at business
2. Market demand and competition impact the efficiency in which a business operates.
One of these things I agree with.
The Hemsky to Caps rumour is curious. The Caps are reportedly shopping Semin to see what he would bring. I wouldn't want a year of Semin rental in return for Ales, who I feel has a lot more dedication and drive to his game.
ReplyDeleteIt's not just the problem with Katz and the city, the problem is Northlands wants a piece of the pie. Northlands has quite of few aldermen in their back pocket and if Katz builds a new arena Northlands will lose a major chunk of cash. The Oilers pay rent to Northlands not the city and city gets none of this money. Northlands maybe a nonprofit organization, but the companies that supply Northlands are not and these companies are owned by people that sit on Northlands board of directors. If I remember right Northlands only pays the city a buck a year to operate the Colosseum and also pays no taxes. Kick Northlands out the picture and I think Kaz's and the city would come to a deal.
ReplyDeleteI get a laugh every time Robbie Schremp's name comes up, face it NYI did us a favor when they pick him up. He was all hands but he couldn't skate, play defense,and win a face-off. He make's one high-lite reel goal and people think he's a god.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteDucey,
ReplyDeleteI promise to spend 100 dollars helping you renovate your house if you send me 300.
If Katz leaves, the city should spend 300MM getting the Coyotes to move here. Then they could own a fucking team and share in the profit the team has been making.
@ Ducey
ReplyDeleteI have an even better idea. We should make Edmonton a minimum wage free zone. Remove all labour standards and change our name to stupidville. Then we can attract call centers and such from other countries!
Calgary climate and geography make it a more attractive option. I'd rather take that 400 million and put it towards that highway as the crow flies from Devon to Nordegg. Mountains in 1 1/2 hours, Solid amount of lake properties near the city.
Hell if everyone that is a spokesmen for the city stopped saying it's not world class enough that would even help.
Blow jobs for businessmen can work but marketing your strengths likely could get you just as far.
So far, Stortini's numbers down on the farm make him look like a non-excellent AHL'er. (5gp, 1 assist, 3 shots.)
ReplyDeleteStarting to look like Bruce was overly optimistic. If the guy can't destroy or at least beat top AHL comp., then he's not good enough to be a decent NHL 4th liner.
We'll wait for the rest of the AHL season to play out, but he might never make it back. That's sad, cause he seems like a nice guy.
Josie or Midge for me.
ReplyDeleteJosie had her shit together and was the talent.
Midge was a very dirty girl.
They all have the same face and body so it basically just comes down to hair color and personality.
Mr Bugg on HF had some interesting insight on RNH and his EV production the other day. I can't confirm or debunk what he says but maybe someone can help.
ReplyDeleteHe claims that RNH is getting 6 or 7 minutes of PP time most night, as his team draws alot of penalties and he doesn't come off the ice. Also RNH apparently kills penalties, probably another 2.5-3 minutes a night.
That's a big chunk of special teams time. It means he's probably only seeing 12 or 13 minutes of EV time most games. In the NHL, Crosby Ovy and the rest of the big dogs play 15-17 EV minutes per night. If nothing else it brings a little context to RNH's EV production, would be helpful for Strome as well.
While we look at other teams shiny rocks (Bogo, Semin) we might want to see just how sparkly our current own one already is. EV points/60:
ReplyDelete1. S. Crosby- 3.98
2. P. Datsyuk- 3.67
3. S. Stamkos- 3.29
4. A. Burrows- 3.15
5. D. Sedin- 3.13
6. A. Hemsky- 3.12
Just how good is that number? Crosby's doing it on his own and Datsyuk is probably well clear but the rest, fine players all of them, are getting a ton of help. Might be time to talk about Ales Hemsky as a Top 5 producer at evens in the whole fucking NHL.
I don't even think Stortini thought he was as good as Bruce thought he was.
ReplyDeleteAlso Betty all day. Melody would be fun for a lost weekend in Vegas though...
ReplyDeleteRiverdale babes, a primer:
ReplyDeletehttp://livingbetweenwednesdays.com/?p=2210
KT,
ReplyDeleteBut 83 plays in the Western Conference so the eastern media has him as a 2nd liner.
Standard.
PDO said he read a PIT journalist's report that the Pens were kicking the tires on 83. Reported that Goligoski, their 1st this year and a prospect was the asking price.
Not a fan of Goligoski, he's 3rd pairing, but at least 3.0 has the price high.
@MrDebakey
ReplyDeleteHaha, thanks for that. That frame where Archie's kissing Cheryl and it says "Kee-Boingg", too funny. Really only one way to interpret that, strange that it's in a kids comic. Cheryl is a walking viagra pill.
@ Archie: Love the way you put your first point forward so well, then turned it into an anti-Schremp rant.
ReplyDeleteStick to chasing Veronica in future, because everyone knows MacT ruined Schremp's development. Don fucking Cherry even tacitly says so, ffs.
I really have no issue removing Northlands from the picture. I just fail to see why on top of handing over all that revenue the tax payers are also expected to pony up the cash for what looks to be a very poor return type inevestment.
ReplyDeleteRick - A little history for you as you don't really seem to be paying attention. The organization now known as Northlands has existed as long as there has been a summer exposition. They undertook operating the Coliseum when it was constructed so that they could try to generate profits with non-hockey events that could (and are) used to maintain the building so the taxpayer would not have to put money into that building every year. They exist for defensive purposes. That's why they are non-profit. Its a publicly-owned building that has the potential to be a large drain on city coffers. Any money they make is used on the facility - and others I suspect. These funds actually subsidize the Oilers today by maintaining the building that the Oilers are allowed to use rent-free.
ReplyDeleteNorthlands deserves Oiler fans' gratitude - not scorn.
You are getting confused about who exactly is the worthless bum on the city's couch. Its not Northlands. They are the lady of the house, thanklessly cleaning up after the bum.
The idea that Katz is entitled to profits from a building that he is nothing but a freeloader in is ridiculous. Let him build his own building with his Own Money and than he's entitled to it all.
Which were both pre-existing conditions when Katz bought the Oilers.
ReplyDeleteIt was also a pre-existing condition that if you hold a gun to fans/the city and threaten to leave (tactfully, through the use of Gary Bettman), they'll buy you a shiny new arena at almost no cost to the team owner.
Gotta love that pre-existing condition.
Ransacking the public purse is a major revenue stream in professional sports. And after you build it, they'll threaten to move elsewhere and leave it empty, so they get you coming and going.
The rush to capitulation has something to do with sports teams functioning as a guest testicle in a large proportion of adult men.
Casting my vote: Samantha was Mrs Right and Jeannie was Ms Right Now. 2000 years old, and wired to turn the rest of your life into Apollo 13 at the first romantic misstep, but you still want to take the test flight.
ReplyDeleteKatz is NOT going to get all the revenues from the building. There is undoubtedly going to be some form of user pay, probably a significant non-trivial ticket tax.
ReplyDeleteThe city's "risk" is the difference between a 30-year $350 mortgage and the revenue a CRL and a ticket tax bring in over 30 years.
What is the city's upside. Making all that underutilized low tax producing downtown land near the arena district attractive to development. Suburban taxes are higher than they need to be because Edmonton has no effing downtown. All those condo highrises in Toronto and Vancouver are immensely profitable to the developers and to thecities tax base.
If you want better city services and lower taxes, downtown development the way to do it.
If Northlands is such a good custodian, why is the area around Northlands a dump. Like the municipal airport lobby (the municipal airport imposes high limits on the downtown, making development downtown unlucrative), Northlands has become a parasite on the city. The taxpayers are subsidizing Northlands and the municipal airport.
Fuck, the new Midge looks like she's good to go, doesn't she.
ReplyDeleteIf Katz issued 350 million in bonds backed by whatever company is going to own all this stuff at what interest rate would he be able to sell them?
ReplyDeleteDid anyone else notice the schadenfreude supreme?
ReplyDeletePhoenix 8-2-0 +6
San Jose 8-2-0 +6
Los Angeles 6-1-3 +5
Anaheim 6-4-0 +2
Dallas 2-7-1 -5
Dallas has effectively lost 10 points against their entire division over the last ten games played, rounding into the trade deadline, with every team on the bubble.
Quite the accomplishment for our hero. The urgency in the dressing room must be approaching the artery retraction scene in Black Hawk Down.
Yeah, new Midge has that look that makes me think she probably has a really high CT/60. Figure that one out. :D
ReplyDeleteFuture Ethel was a 10 also. A supermodel if I remember correctly.
God i'm a nerd...
Spoiler
ReplyDeleteDon't know bond pricing but:
7 to 8 % on a $350 million dollar mortgage with a 30 year term has MONTHLY payments of $2.33 m or $2.568 m
And I ain't buying that commercial paper
Dennis has a phrase I plagiarized: emperor, new clothes, naked
There's a lot of collateral there. He couldn't knock a substantial amount of points off that rate? I'm not in commercial lending, but do remember the market freezing up a teensy while back so it wouldn't surprise me. Still, do commercial mortgages to good credit customers with plenty of collateral really have that much juice? If so, allow me to say "sheesh", considering the banks' present cost of capital.
ReplyDeleteGood point, Godot, about how humble the area around Northlands is. Kinda makes a hash of the argument that these arenas revitalize their neighbourhood, yes?
ReplyDelete(Of course, no one who's been reading whydowntown.ca has wasted much time entertaining that argument lately.)
I would really like to see his EV numbers. If this is all just feasting on the PP and weak comp then it's probably not going to amount to much in the bigs.
ReplyDeleteAlso I need to read the whole thread before commenting.
ReplyDeletegodot - you like to talk about shared risk a lot. What exactly is Katz's risk if, as I suspect, his $100MM comes from seat licenses?
ReplyDeleteIn what way would this be 'Katz's arena'?
Edmonton probably has one the largest percentage of non-corporate ticket holders.
ReplyDeleteI doubt seat licenses will fly in a non-corporate market, particularly if there is a hefty ticket tax going to pay off the city's "mortgage".
the rev generated is real but these outdoor classics are exhibition caliber games using real players but being played on substandard ice.
ReplyDeletein that regard it's like watching the Oilers play....
But Dennis, the feeling around the game, the nostalgia!
ReplyDeleteListening to the radio guys here talk about the game, I was wondering if I was in the same city.
@ Ducey/Ribs, how dare you refute my non-fact based opinions with real facts! I totally forgot how well Vancouver and the french team who's name shall not be mentionned are doing this season (though the latter would not be nearly so strong if they were in the west - take that fpb ;D ) and Calgary is redeeming themselves post-Sutter.
Cgy is crushing the Habs. It's not close and underlining the difference between the conferences.
ReplyDeleteI surprised about not being able to get a Zamboni out there. Why not take two weeks or more to get the ice down? The NHL just needs to take this stuff more seriously I guess.
Brownlee is talking about 27 to the Kings and 83 to the Caps - or at least about there being a lot of interest from those teams - so I imagine we should all be very worried.
ReplyDeleteThat is terrible news about Hemsky - but then there might be some sort of Linus Omark to Alex Semin joke in there somewhere. And as BD mentioned earlier, Penner's listless play might have to do with the thought of sticking around the crap of that org. I wouldn't begrudge him a change of scenery if the Oil get the moon for him.
ReplyDelete$100,000,000/20,000seats = $5000/seat.
ReplyDeleteKatz did not become a billionaire using his own money.
He won't be taking any risk. The citizens will be sharing it all amongst themselves.
Does Darryl, or perhaps does Rexall spend any money sponsoring campaigns of city councilors or any of your provincial parties? I have a friend in Kinesiology/Recreation Management (KinRec) who took a course in which a full chapter was dedicated to public/private partnerships and the benefits that result. A very smart woman with no vested interest in football (Winnipeg's new Bomber Stadium, which is how the conversation topic came up) and her conclusion was that the benefits are generally reserved for the few, not the many.
ReplyDeleteI guess Feaster will be selling at the deadline. The Flames are already wearing their golf shorts.
ReplyDelete27 to the Kings could work out. I really doubt 83 to the Caps could end well for the Oilers. Kuznetsov seems ok but he's a Russian so the KHL thing is a worry. The rest of their cupboard seems bare.
ReplyDeleteRe: Arena... Scuttlebutt at City Hall suggests that Katz owns a large, arena-sized piece of land out in Strathcona County, and he's willing to use it as leverage if things go south with the COE...
ReplyDeleteI feel like it was moderately hip of them to book Metric but I also wonder if the Heritage Classic is not exactly an ideal venue for Emily Haines.
ReplyDeleteWas she live or Memorex? Also, that first song, was it about a hammer? I wasn't sure.
ReplyDeleteMemo-who? Like, pre-recorded? Nah, that was definitely live. With no disrespect to my future girlfriend*, you could hear her shortness of breath and a bit of pitchiness when she sang along to the synthesized "oo-oo-oo-oo-oo" parts of Stadium Love (the last song). I actually didn't catch anything else they played, so I'm also confused by this hammer thing.
ReplyDelete*I deliberately avoided wife here. Something tells me the drugs and lifestyle can't end well.
I wasn't watching but I would guess that the line was "my hearts still beating like a hammer", from the song, "Help I'm Alive". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtA7YIFapnY
ReplyDeleteIt's not the ideal venue for Emily Haines because she's wearing too much clothing.
ReplyDeleteHelp I'm alive is the song about Home Depot.
I saw Metric in a small club (Babylon) in Ottawa with about 100 people in the early naughts.
ReplyDeleteI saw Feist in a club at CMW in Toronto in 2000. (I think that is still the record for me, biggest future act to smallest club where I first saw them). The next time I saw Feist was in an even smaller club, the Cameron House backroom. This was still well before Let it Die. It was unplugged and solo, opening for ex-Bourbon Tabernacle Choir duo, Chris Brown and Kate Fenner.
Alas, I had a brutal cold and stayed home rather than go see Arcade Fire at the Black Sheep in Wakefield a few months before the release of Funeral.
An interesting choice for a musical act at an outdoor hockey game in the middle of the cultural wasteland of Calgary (sarcasm meant on the last phrase). I don't begrudge the choice, just that it was ... interesting.
ReplyDeletegodot10: You win. That is all.
ReplyDeleteUnless this Australian band called The Jezabels gets big soon (saw them with Two Hours Traffic, an East Coast Canadian band that CBC Radio seems to love). I was able to catch them with about 50 other people and have a drink with the two gorgeous members after the show. I looked them up online after the show and apparently they're booking gigs and winning awards all over Australia, and most definitely not sleeping with me.
Anon
ReplyDeleteYou are kidding, right??
Seriously is that supposed to be a threat or a promise? All Edmontonians avidly support a Katz funded arena in Strathcona county.
It kinda reads: Look out or the Oilers will build its own arean in Strathcona County. Not close to my home but the County has ABSOLUTELY NO ABILITY to fund a $350 million dollar arena
Absolutely Hilarious
Word around City Hall is that is the dumbest threat since Cleavon Little's hilarious line in Blazing Saddles
The Fourth Period has LAK, PIT,NYR, and WAS after Hemsky
ReplyDeleteThey have LAK in the lead with an offer of Simmonds, Clifford and Teubert.
That represents $0.50 on the dollar for 83.
None of those players project 1st line or top pairing D.
That's Pronger for magic beans all over again.
Pray to the hockey gods that it doesn't happen.
My god that would be an awful trade.
ReplyDeletex2 on the awfulness of the trade - $1.50 for Hemsky, nothing less.
ReplyDeleteWould not surprise me that LAK would offer that.
ReplyDeleteWhat WOULD frighten me is that 3.0 might get pushed into that deal by Klowe.
I will be greatly relieved if we can get past the deadline with 83 still on our team.
If the brass know 83 doesn't want to extend, then highest bidder wins IMO.
ReplyDeleteot:
ReplyDeletethere was some talk earlier in the thread that said gags was getting the short end of the stick by playin/sinking with the swedes, while cogs was getting the prime time with the rookies.
it seems as though renney loves cogs and i think he's been a much better fit with the rookies than gags was. his speed and transition game seems to fit better with hall.
gags has two rookies that have both played professionally, and like to cycle the puck (as he does)...and i would have expected this to be the easier assignment in some respects.
anyhow, i never thought i would have ever said this, but to my eye, and to how they're being used, cogs has passed gags on the depth chart.
this jive with anyone else?
also, has there been any talk of of trying MPS at center? everytime he's the first person back on a play, i just think Datsyuk-lite...
also, on the new arena -- downtown or bust. i love walking from work, to a restaurant, to the game, to a lounge and then home because the arena in YYC is downtown. it's a great addition for what is otherwise deadman's land after EOD.
12-23-35
ReplyDelete9-15-24
If that deal was for 27, i'd start thinking about it.
ReplyDeleteThere were unconfirmed reports that MPS was s D until he was 15. That wouuld explain his '3rd man/rover' positioning. Maybe one of LT's Swedish fans can comment.
ReplyDeleteitsaleaf - Penner has not looked good lately, but you are seriously selling him short.
@bq
ReplyDeletethat's where it stands now, but i'm not sure point totals necessarily indicate where the arrows are currently pointing. cogs got off to a dreadful start point wise.
if you remove PP the numbers are gags with 30 pts and cogs with 23...
i also don't believe it's his task on that line to get he points. it's his job to create fast/dynamic transition opportunities the blue chippers can take advantage of.
on behindthenet, does anyone know how to get results in game chunks? i'd love to do 20gm comparisons over a few different meausures.
ReplyDeleteI have been doing some hockey trips to Ottawa the last few years to visit with a cousin of mine.
ReplyDeleteThat trek out from Ottawa to Kanata on game night can be brutal. And after the games, there is the big rush to get back on the Queensway to head back into Ottawa, no atmosphere at all. He is a season ticket holder and gives games away due to the drive out there some nights in winter.
There is only really one main route to SBP in Kanata.
ReplyDeleteThe Henday is mostly complete. Add in the Whitemud. There would be multiple routes to and from a suburban Edmonton arena. It would still suck, and be bad for the city's future, but people in Ottawa still go to the games. They would in Edmonton.
I'm sure AEG is looking at running both the Edmonton and future Calgary arena's as part of its arena and live entertainment empire.
Northlands concert business would go pfft anyways because the AEG and LiveNation are taking control of
the venues and the acts.
I'm less familiar with Sherwood Park than Edmonton's South and West, but upon thinking about it, Strathcona County does make some sense. There really is no power retail area like WEM or SEC. An arena district would allow Strathcona County/Sherwood Park to become an entertainment/shopping destination. And it would all come from cannabalizing Edmonton.
SEC is just a big box ghetto, and WEM is old news, with nothing particularly interesting about it.
For the Edmonton area, it would be best if it were downtown to create new city revenue from a revitalized downtown.
But AEG can undoubtedly design a suburban arena project aimed right at WEM and SEC just as well as a downtown one.
The thing that scares me about that LA proposal (apart from be bad) is that it looks like one that might intrigue the current braintrust. All those players are physical/abrasive types that we have heard so much noise about from this organization (and its media).
ReplyDeleteThere is zero pressure to move Hemsky, and as such you play hardball and see what desperate teams might offer up. Schenn should be part of any potential deal that involves Hemsky to LA, and if not it is a non-starter. The Oilers are in a position of power and it better be used. If those teams are unwilling to pay the price, keeping Hemsky would be a pretty good consolation prize.
Absolutely. Taking that LA deal would reek of desperation.
ReplyDeleteWith all the trade rumblings today I figured I should look at the HF Top prospects section again. I noted the following prospects for the rumored teams:
ReplyDeleteWashigton - Carlson and Alzner (Steckel&Carlson&1st for Hemsky would be a great deal
LA: Schenn and Bernier (Schenn& Simmonds or a pick?)
Montreal: Subban (doubt they'd move him)
Columbus: Johansen and Moore (We know the Oil liked Moore but Johansen would be a dream)
Nashville :Franson and Blum and Wilson
Pittsburgh: Tangradi sounds nice
Prospects of note for non-rumored partners include: Pietrangelo, Connoly, Hodgson, Ekman-Larson and Kindl
Any one of these would be a nice starting point for Penner but I'd only move Hemsky for a Johansen or a Carlson.
I love Emily Haynes as much as the next person but I don't think she can sing live; or at least I've never head it.
ReplyDeletetoo much smoke around 83 now for my liking.
and Sather will be coming full bore now with Gaborik suffering a concussion.
plus, Lowe fucks all the big deals so you know everyone's in line to rape us.
So far into his alleged tenure as GM, toonces hasn't done badly at all. The worry so many of us have is, he's Lowe's puppet.
ReplyDeleteI do like the way he keeps his trap shut, unlike Lowe who baiscally let the world know he was in love with some of the following players: Jokinen, Gomez, Andropov, and by being such a dolt basically drove the prices up on anyone he wanted.
Still, Lowe got Pronger, which is something his children can all be proud of.
isn't metric a little too 2006? and hasn't emily burnt every bridge she's ever been connected to? i can't believe that her band mates want anything to do with her anymore. if we're talking daigle comparisons, she's mine.
ReplyDeleteWell they should have brought out Stompin Tom. Guy needs a beer and some plywood for Christ sakes.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if the Souray move was in the hopes of dumping some salary.
ReplyDeleteSemin for Hemsky scares me too.
But Dustin might be an issue. Brownlee stated a few days back that there was speculation Penner wasn't being completely truthful when he said he wanted to stay. If so, kudos to him for not blowing his trade value.
And if so, then he might as well go now or at the draft. If a #1 is your goal, then now is better coz teams clench their picks a little more tightly at the draft.
Would Penner + Brule/Smid + 3rd get you Schenn + 1st?
Jesus that would be dialing the clock back. Big time. But if he prefers not to stay, what the heck can we do?
That doesn't mean though that they HAVE to deal him now. There's still the draft and even later in the off-season. When will we get the best deal?
@spoiler
ReplyDeletei think your question about "when is the best time to trade them" is the big/interesting aspect of the Penner/Hemsky trades.
Do they have more value this trade deadline because of their perceived value contracts for next year, or will we get more when they're expiring?
are there any comparables out there from recent years with players who still have term left?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHL_trade_deadline
I'm talking out of my ass here, well a little bit, but here is what I believe.
ReplyDeleteQuite a while ago there was talk of Hemsky extending which means its likely on the table. Less depth on RW plus Hemsky has always been an Oiler, he plays hard and plays hurt and in 2006 he averaged almost a PPG as a baby in the playoffs.
Plus he strikes me as a guy who likes stability.
The word is they are asking the world for him and if they get it then maybe they move him but the fact that they want so much means that a) they value him and b) they figure they will sign him
Penner, on the other hand, marches to his own drummer (not popular anywhere in hockey) and has had issues with the org. before. Considering the emphasis on 'sandpaper' I would say that his easygoing nature is probably held against him.
Plus I think he's a bright guy frankly, who probably smirks every time Tambo walks into the room.
I think he gets dealt.
As for best time to deal him - right now. Whoever trades for him gets two playoffs plus a full season out of him at a reasonable price.
Penner is extremely intelligent. He might well be lying his face off, but says things in such a lovely PC manner that the dullards covering the Oilers miss out.
ReplyDeleteIf he wants to go, I hope they quietly accomodate the guy. He's already suffered enough, ffs.
And since the future of the Oilers is Hall+Eberle...
@Black Dog: In the good old days they always had the Springfield Indians for guys like Dustin Penner.
ReplyDeleteI agree, BDHS. i think now is the time. As you point out there's more value now. I think an overpay is more likely now, too. There's a lot more pressure on GMs now than there is in the off-season.
ReplyDeleteBut if the above deal from LA is the best they have to offer, then I'm half-inclined to spend the year trying to convince him otherwise. By like finding a decent 3C, and a PK winger and a top 4 Dman and making the playoffs.
If the oilers are fielding offers for Hemsky I hope they let this guy do the negotiating:
ReplyDeletehttp://video.oilers.nhl.com/videocen...nsole?id=33833
I'd trade for my elderly grandmother if that guy told me she could play.
Let's try that again:
ReplyDeletehttp://video.oilers.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=33833
@ spoiler:
ReplyDeleteI would definitely do that Penner/Schenn deal, but I am sure LA would not. Although my opinion is based on really liking Schenn and being convinced that Penner is gone next summer.
The problem is Penner appears to be greatly undervalued around the league (if only he was a leaf or at least played out east;). Therefore, while the Oilers need to trade him instead of losing him for nothing, any deal is probably going to be short on value coming back in our eyes. Tough spot for Tambelleni imo.
I'm not sure the Eastern media is indicative of what Eastern Conference GM's think.
ReplyDeleteThey have LAK in the lead with an offer of Simmonds, Clifford and Teubert.
ReplyDeleteAgreed that is not enough for Hemmer but add in a first rounder and that would work for Penner wouldn't it?
I guess the good news is that there are multiple teams bidding against each other, and Tambo's M.O. is to wait until the last minute to make a decision, or never make it.
Maybe that drives up the price to something acceptable.
Pitlick with 2G 1A +3 and first star tonight. Good to see him back from a concussion.
ReplyDeleteCurtis Hamilton a goal on the losing side.
@ woodguy
ReplyDeleteI would agree, the eastern media is not necessarily indicative of what GMs think, but I think it is generally suggestive of popular opinion and an influential force. Media hyping or dumping on certain players helps form opinions, including those of some GMs.
Moreover, there is dialogue between the media and GMs, scouts ect. where opinions on players are exchanged that I am sure finds their way into the mainstream discourse. Unfortunately and unfairly, Penner's brand is not in a good place right now.
I hope I am wrong, but I very much doubt that the opinion of Penner shared on here reflects that of most GMs. As such, I guarantee disappointment with the return if Penner is dealt.
The Hemsky decision will be a defining moment for Tambellini. Surely he realizes that. I would agree that he has not done terribly in the trade department thus far. I thought the Lubo trade was forced a little, but otherwise his record looks pretty good. Last year, all three of the Grebeshkov, Staios, and POS trades were excellent with top marks for the POS trade which I thought was even a little bit creative and clever. It certainly addressed a need on the current roster which he got for next to nothing, and JVD hasn't been too bad at all, albeit a little overpaid.
ReplyDeleteI don't get all the talk about trading Smid though. We need more Smid, not less. Why dump a young Dman like that who is performing reasonably well? He'll be a good 3-4 Dman for a decade. He doesn't score much, so his contract will always be a value contract. I wouldn't trade Smid for anything less than a first rounder. No one may offer that much, and in that case, I would say forget it and keep him.
It's interesting how some players seem to get overvalued by the home team fans, yet others remarkably undervalued.
What's the point of building a $450 million dollar arena?
ReplyDeleteLiving in Winnipeg and following the Coyotes/Thrashers saga gives a little insight into what makes teams viable.
The Senators were bankrupted by their new barn before Melnyk saved the day. The Coyotes can't make money in their barn because they don't own it and don't collect any non-hockey related revenue.
Winnipeg built a smaller but very nice venue in the MTS centre for under $200 million dollars.
Some people say 15,000 seats is too small but the demand for seats, when the NHL returns, (hopefully next year) will far exceed supply.
I understand the want to go big with the new arena but it doesn't have to be that way.
I'm not sure how much it would cost to build a similar building in Edmonton but I'm sure you could get a very nice building for $250 - $300 million with slightly more capacity and slightly better amenities than the MTS Centre.
And it needs to be built downtown. True North (the group that own the Manitoba Moose) are buying up land surrounding the MTS Centre and are looking at creating a SHED - Shoppping, Hospitality and Entertainment Distric - in an around the arena. All in hopes of funneling all kinds of revenue back into their pockets to help make NHL hockey profitable in Winnipeg.
Sure the Oilers have done very well financially these last few years but Katz needs to control all revenues in order to ensure stability going forward.
The reason the Jets left in the first place was because Winnipeg Enterprises had their claws in everything. Just like Northlands wants to keep theirs.
I know it's a touchy subject but it is very very important to the future viability of the Oilers.
Ashley,
ReplyDeleteI would disagree on Smid. The problem is that he is not progressing. I think he might be a 3-4 defensemen but he isnt showing any signs of it. What does he bring to the table? Doesnt produce any offense, doesnt shutdown other teams top lines, only brings any toughness after the whistle, etc. Id rather let a guy like Petry work his way through the lineup, then have smid stay and not progress for 10 years.
Pat: at what point though do we reconcile the fact that 83's name is even being tossed around.
ReplyDeleteSure, he isn't Crosby but he should be pretty much unspeakable given the talent we don't have and the money he doesn't make.
So at some point I figure he's out there because Lowe is stupid or 83 isn't as interested in resigning as we think he is.
I'm trying to get my mind around why a guy like that making that kind of money is even being discussed.