I started wondering about his decision making when the final roster arrived in the fall. Sending out Liam Reddox and keeping JF Jacques, Steve MacIntyre and Zack Stortini might not seem like a big deal but it did leave the team somewhat exposed on the PK.
There were other things and by the end of December I began to openly question his ability to put the best possible team on the ice each evening. That post is here.
Based on the first 50 games, I don't think Tom Renney is the right man to coach this team. Items like not playing Dubnyk more, dressing Jacques over Stortini and inertia over the penalty kill (which was finally addressed and has improved) make me wonder about the guy. He's making addled choices and his team is neither fish nor fowl.
Renney has done some good things, including bringing along the kids nicely and credit to the coaching staff for recognizing (and elevating) Peckham and Petry ahead of veteran underperformers.
I don't think it's been good enough, honestly. Louise (Ice_Dragoon) sent an email to Bob Stauffer the other day that referenced Renney's pre-season promise that he wouldn't call out his men in public. She mentioned it because coach Renney had done just that in his postgame the other night re:Sam Gagner being thrown out of the game.
I wonder if Renney is feeling a lot of pressure as the losses pile up? I don't think so. Why? If he did, Renney would do the things that are available to him in order to improve the hockey club immediately:
- Make Dubnyk his starter
- Send down Jacques and call up Hartikainen
- Play Stortini or get rid of him. Having him hang in the balance is a distraction.
- Make use of MacIntyre or release him. The Oilers could use 12 hockey players up front every night.
- Drill down on the PP and find something that works. Sending out the 3rd line is just lazy.
Ah, Full Metal Jacket - great movie until they shoot fatso and then it all falls apart immediately.
ReplyDeleteHaving seen how he turned the Rangers around quickly, I like what Renney's doing. Not that he's turning the Oilers around, of course.
What it appears he is doing, is allowing the young kids to grow in a positive atmosphere. Having suffered under MacT and his demonic handling of the prospects, this all by itself is a great thing.
My attitude toward the Oilers is give it some time, and the kids will mature, and as I've always thought, talented hockey teams usually win, provided they really are talented enough.
And since the only real way to amass truly elite talent is via the draft, it's obvious that the M.O. of this years team is "lose lose and lose, and get a high couple of picks again'.
The last thing anyone needs is another pathetic late season rally. See this year's Flames, as they piss away the chance for a high draft pick in the futile pursuit of the playoffs/booted out in the early rounds at best.
So he's developing prospects but not playing Dubnyk?
ReplyDeleteI don't think the Oilers are going to be able to turn the W's on and off like a light switch. So the losing for Larsson idea might seem like a good one but the Oilers are in danger of spending a generation in the second division.
Which makes them the Oakland Seals.
To play the devil's advocate for a bit, personnel moves are not the purview of Renney. He has the option of not playing Stortini, Dubnyk etc. but he's gotta talk to ST if, for example, Hartikainen were to get a recall. Renney also does not have the ability to trade players he sees as unnecessary.
ReplyDeleteAll roads go through Tambellini. And for my fellow Winnipeggers that's the equivalent of trying to get through confusion corner at rush hour.
I don't think Renney is the main problem. But the fault sure isn't on the players. I think we can agree on that.
I also wonder why he insists on using Foster on the pp. Yes he has a hard shot but has no control or hockey IQ when to use it or when to pass. Or read the play and angle off clearing attempts.
ReplyDeleteOr not just Foster how about using 4 forwards sometimes.
You wonder if he's under pressure from Tambi to use the players that Tambi drought in?
Khabi and Foster for example.
I wonder what are record is if Gerber and DD were the two goalies playinfg for this team?
"which makes them the Oakland Seals"
ReplyDeleteI'm giving this franchise the rest of this season before I realise they're hopeless, doomed, and whatever else comes with that territory.
Besides, aren't the Leafs the new Seals(tossing away potential franchise players for decent but flawed veterans)?
Fair point re Dubnyk, of course. However, it would appear ridiculous to pay the Bulin Wall his huge salary to play backup, lol.
I'm laughing, thinking abut that UFA guy who they pay about the same money to play in the AHL.
PS: This franchise has already spent an entire generation in the second division.
I agree with the point made by doritogrande. Who is in charge of the personnel moves is important to note.
ReplyDeleteLT, in terms of Hartikainen - how many rookies do we need up here? In the past, haven't you written about the importance of these kids learning to ply their trade against men in the AHL?
I mean, Edmonton's season is a write-off...why not let Hartikainen continue to develop on the farm?
LT,
ReplyDeleteRookies are looking good. Granted their a better crop than what those that came before had but still. The players seem, while down on losses, still seem somewhat loose in interviews and optomistic. This is vastly different than the losing that came before.
As has been mentioned, I'm uncertain how much pull Renney really has wrt roster. SMAC is his I'm sure but without a clear understanding of the management dichotomy, having a hard time being that angry about it.
He's rolling lines more or less, which seems contrary to his previous jobs. He's not coaching much of a chess match. Maybe he would like to send Fraser packing and let Omara play. Maybe he wanted Omark up at the beginning of the year. Maybe the management were hoping Rekhab would look good and they could con someone into taking him. I can't imagine he was too pumped about carrying around a three headed goalie monster and I'm sure Belle would have stayed on the roster over Strudwick the first go round. The only reason Omark and Petry are here is that they obviously cannot send them down. If they could they would have and I'm sure Renney wouldn't be too pleased about it but with a clear mandate of "don't worry your on ice performance get's a pass this year". Leaves him just trying to put on the best face he can on a nightly basis.
The decisions don't seem to make sense and you coach to win...If cracks are showing it's because internally he might be pretty near ready to snap. They've driven the last two coaches past the point of madness. Good odds the third is struggling with his sanity as well, by now.
chartleys
LT, Did you and McCurdy have breakfast together? Both blogs got me thinking about the same thing. The Oilers have some decisions to make:
ReplyDelete1) between now and when injured players return
2) between when those players return and the trade deadline
3) in the off-season
Its truly time to cut bait and simply decide to be a better team or go for another lottery pick next year. Do they want to finish 30th or 16th. Its clear to me from the management that those are the only choices. What I've seen so far is that they're either in denial of the required choices, consciously avoidancing the required choices, intentional bad choices so that they stay in lottery contention forever, or generally incapable of making tough choices.
I'm not saying anything new here. Just frustrated and killing time while I have my coffee.
Not dumping Jacques reminds me of my own inability to sell a stock when its time has come.
Memo from Katz' limo:
ReplyDelete"Renney isn't going anywhere."
I hear a lot of people saying that it wouldn't make sense to sit Khabby for Dubnyk because of the money and I just think that that is silly.
Souray is making a bunch of money playing hockey in the minors. Why? Because management didn't want him here, and he didn't want to be here. Saying he was "bad for the room" or something.
Well, Khabby has lost 11 straight games! Eleven! That has got to be pretty bad for the room. You can't send him down, but for the love of God put the good goalie in once in a while so that we can win a game every couple of weeks. Forget the money. No matter how much you play him, that contract isn't going to look any better.
I mean, 11 friggin' games in a row!
Khabibulin's being driven to drink, the way this year's turning out for him.
ReplyDeleteI agree LT, and have to counter one of your points the PK isn't getting better. The goaltending is getting better, but the PK is surrendering more scoring chances/60 than it was during the darkest times. In no universe can Renney claim credit for the goaltending getting better.
ReplyDeleteAside from that, you forgot the miserable power play.
The scoring chances show a team that is nearly even at even strength and is, in fact, winning the ES battle since Petry was called up. There are all kinds of things going on here, and not many of them are good.
I don't think the Oilers are going to be able to turn the W's on and off like a light switch. So the losing for Larsson idea might seem like a good one but the Oilers are in danger of spending a generation in the second division
Neal just did an interview with Colin McDonald in which Colin spoke frankly about the Springfield experience. One of his quotes shows the effects of losing on a roster:
"And in Springfield we were a pretty young team almost every year, and those of us who played in Springfield and are now here just got sick of losing. And not just losing, but finishing in last place; it's just not fun to play hockey that way. Guys were miserable showing up to the rink every day, and at times we found ourselves just trying to not lose by a lot."
A number of media types and legions of fans (especially vocal commenters) bought into the losing for a purpose and at the same time trashed the idea of Souray on the roster because of the terrible environment Souray could create. McDonald's comments show the real problem in any locker room and the reason players leave organizations - losing.
And that's the shitty part about this team - it was never given a chance to succeed. The things you mention are obvious, but the third year without replacements for Stoll and Reasoner, building a team with Liam Reddox as the fourth-best penalty killer, keeping Jason Strudwick anywhere near an NHL team, signing Jacques to appease a couple of egos in the personnel department - these are things that winning teams don't do, even in a rebuild.
It's a shame too, there are some kids and veterans alike playing their tails off out there, but they're getting zero coaching support and even less management support.
Even if we allow some of the blame for Tambellini (and man there's enough to go around), I still don't understand the hesitation to flush NK from the starting role.
ReplyDeleteYou know, and I don't think this should come as news, there's a very good chances Khabibulin is done.
So if you're developing the kids, why not Dubnyk too?
Sean: I do think kids need to prove themselves in the AHL. However, Hartikainen is 3rd in AHL rookie scoring and in fact only he and Dalpe are 20-year olds.
He's certainly earned a shot at replacing Jacques on the roster imo.
Chartley's: Good points, I am impressed by how well he's been able to juggle the kids and work in the young blue.
But he needs to be working on those things that are fixable, like starting goalie.
Coach: Thanks. And I did mention the PP, it was point #5. :-)
ReplyDeleteSean:
ReplyDeleteIf the team of 23 rookies played better than the team with one rookie and 22 crappy veterans, you give the kids their shot.
Veteran presence is important on a team, but when kids are better than veterans there's no logical reason to stunt the rookies' development.
Emphasis on the word "logical".
There is no bigger Hartikainen supporter on the planet (okay, maybe his mom and sister) than me, but I think he should stay in the AHL for the remainder of the season. He's loose, he's comfortable, he likes the city and the people and his teammates, he's playing his game on the boards and in front and he's being relied on every night. I don't think it's a good idea to call him up and give him 6 minutes a night on the fourth line.
ReplyDeleteLet him spend a season in the A, let him make a run at the ROY award and give him some additional time to figure it all out.
Well, shit. You did mention the power play. I saw the penalty kill and it was like a red cape to a bull.
ReplyDeleteMy apologies, sir.
Coach: No worries. When I read your post I said "dammit!" so you made me look.
ReplyDeleteYour point on Hartikainen is a good one and he would be on the 4line. But I think he's proven everything he needs to in the AHL.
I don't remember the last Oiler forward propsect who finished in the league's top 10 in rookie scoring. It was years ago.
You just want a Finn on the big club. I understand, believe me.
ReplyDeleteI'm with coach on this one. Better to give Hartikainen big minutes on the farm than fourth line minutes up here.
ReplyDeleteThere's certainly no question Hartikainen is better than JFJ (I'm better than JFJ, and I can't even skate).
That said, what would the advantages be to calling Hartikainen up?
Would it be good for his development? Would it result in a few more wins for Edmonton?
(I'm not trying to be a jackass, I'm asking honestly.)
I wouldn't be opposed to giving him a cup of coffee up here.
Sean: Good questions all. I think the benefit for Hartikainen would be that he would get some NHL time this season and know what he'll be up against next fall.
ReplyDeleteI think the point about 4line minutes is a good one (you want the guy to play) but with the PP being so poor perhaps Hartikainen can be used on the #2PP as the guy who blocks out the sun in front of the net?
Or perhaps Ryan Jones is dealt and Hartikainen gets a chance with some of the really skilled guys.
He's having a helluva season in a very good league filled with older guys who are fully aware of their role in life compared to Hartikainen's. He's struggled, survived and is now flourishing.
I think he's worthy of a callup right now.
On NK:
ReplyDeleteI think Renney honestly thought the playoffs wer makeable when he started the season. When they played .500 hockey pre Horc's injury, I think he thought they, the playoffs, were legitimately attainable.
I think Renney wanted to give the kids the best confidence he could during the first half of the season and I think it is natural to believe that would come from playing the vet not the rookie behind them. Slow play the rookie hand till the kids learn they can trust him too.
I also think it is a possibility that the Oil thought, from the same reports we had this summer, that Khabby's appeal would have been heard by now and that there was a decent chance he would be doing time--which meant a month's straight worth of starts for Doobie later in the year, so they thought they might as well get some miles out of him while they can.
And w.r.t. NK's losing streak, well it's not exactly like he's getting the run support either.
Just some thoughts.
To me, I think the most damning evidence that ST has no idea what he's doing came when he was interviewed n Sportsnet (i believe) between periods and started talking "evaluation" again! I was shocked to hear that word. By Year 3 of the rebuild (and yes, this is year 3), evaluating players on the roster should not be the primary focus. That process should be done and you should be looking at how to fill holes and actually be active in trying to fill them. I, too, am at an extreme loss as to why Dubnyk does not play more. Our goaltending situation is hardly unique in the sense that an unproven young goaltender is outplaying the more expensive so-called starter. But yet, paraysis-by-analysis strikes again! In a perfect world, in the offseason, the Oil would: re-sign JDD and give him an actual chance to supplant NK, or, bring in a veteran NHL goaltender with something to prove in the offseason (Mike Smith or Niemi). I would probably bury Khabby in the AHL (or Russia) and eat the cap hit since we have so much of it right now. Then, if he gets his game together, let him compete again in 2012-2013 for a job or eat the cap space. I also wondered about the SMac signing when the AHL is littered with tough guys who can play a little. I would rather see someone like Ben Ondrus or Gregory Stewart patrolling the 4th line than JFJ or SMac.As much as Garth Snow gets lambasted, at least he tries to find mentors and vets to fill roles on his team (see: weight, Doug and Roloson, Dwayne).
ReplyDeleteBottom line, this organization has to be constantly trying to get better EVERY DAY not just every offseason. The blame for the inertia on moves, imo, lies squarely at the feet of Dithers.
great movie until they shoot fatso
ReplyDeleteThat should be the tagline for that movie. Lot's of people thought the same thing. But in all seriousness, you might want to watch the end of that movie again.
---
Re the PP:
At this point, a forward or two on the PP sounds like a good idea.
In Khabibulin's defence, it's not like he's got one playing on front of him. It reminds me of the way I remember Fuhr getting hung out to dry - Oiler's hockey i guess.
ReplyDeleteI mean a forward on the point.
ReplyDeleteAh, Full Metal Jacket -great movie until they shoot fatso and then it all falls apart immediately.
ReplyDeleteMost people don't get Kubrick, not even the authors of the many works he subverted.
I believe Renney is protecting DD.
ReplyDeleteThere was a story out a few weeks ago wherein Renney indicated that Chabot, the goalie coach, was involved in selecting the games DD would play.
The reality is that DD is at a personal all time high in terms of save % - that includes any level of hockey. Assuming there is some kind of NHLE for save %, DD's save % should likely be less than it is.
If he winds up playing 70% of the games, that save % is going to go down and DD's confidence will too.
Bulin is a vet and can be thrown to the wolves night after night. I don't think they want to do that with a goalie in his first full season.
spOILer: I'd be happy to bet I've forgotten more about Stanley Kubrick than most will ever know. The fact is, he lost it with that movie, proven beyond doubt by the dirge he came out with next(although interesting as hell as a psychological study of his psyche).
ReplyDeleteOverall, I think Renney is doing fine. The big thing is that by all accounts there is a positive mood in the room, and the kids are developing.
ReplyDeleteThe scoring chances show a team that is nearly even at even strength and is, in fact, winning the ES battle since Petry was called up.
ReplyDeleteCan you expand on this? If they've been winning the ES battle lately it's with a heavy dose of score effects. Getting smoked on ST puts them in this position a lot. (I never remember noticing teams playing to the score so obviously as this year. Det just turned it on and off against the Oil in that last matchup. It was amazing.)
The PP is really bizarre. I normally just say get the best talent out there for the PP and they'll figure it out. If you have the talent, coaching won't make a huge difference. In the Oilers' case, you can question the talent because they have no pointmen to speak of and always seem to have 1-2 rookies out there and rookies rarely produce on the PP, even the ones that grow to do do. However, I do think coaching can fuck up a good thing, and the insistence on point shots has to come from the coaches.
That may be, hunter, but the vague assertions you are making don't exactly convince me that you do or ever did.
ReplyDeleteThe fundamental question is whether the fix is in or not. I believe that's been answered; disgusting as that is in competitive sports. How do we judge a coach in that atmosphere? If this is the best he can do, even with this roster, then you're right LT, he's not the guy to lead us forward. If the fix is in, maybe he should have quit. Coaching a team to lose has to have negative psychological effects on a person.
ReplyDeleteEven though the efforts have not been terribly consistent on the player front, there have been many nights where a couple decisions here or there would've turned the game. Renney has done some things that have directly cost the Oilers games:
- Playing the 4th line late
- Playing the 4th line after they score
- Playing Strudwick late
- Playing Strudwick at all
- Playing Khabibulin too much
- Not pulling Khabibulin when it is blatantly obvious to everyone in a 1000 mile radius that he's WAY off that evening
- Not creating powerplay lines
- Not sticking with his PP system from the preseason, which worked
- Gagner in the SO
I could go on, but when the coach is hampering performance like this, it's either intentional or he's really bad.
"There was a story out a few weeks ago wherein Renney indicated that Chabot, the goalie coach, was involved in selecting the games DD would play."
ReplyDeleteIncredibly stupid if true.
It stinks of a tank job to me, IMO.
ReplyDeleteAs for NK, it's probably to spare Dubnyk the psychological trauma of losing 7 in a row.
@ RiversQ
ReplyDeletehttp://www.coppernblue.com/2011/1/30/1963137/oilers-scoring-chances-at-the-all-star-break
@doritogrande
ReplyDeleteOf course ST makes the final decisions, but the coach has to go the GM with his requests too.
TR cant just blatantly go ahead and say that MacIntyre is important for this team, because he just isnt.
Coach rightly said that PK improvement is purely superficial. We are giving up a lot in our zone and all this improvement is simply the compensation for horrible percentages early in the season.
Bad Wojo: Too late. I think it took him tha much games to get a W last year.
ReplyDeletere: Khabby not getting run support.
ReplyDeleteI've heard this defense of Khabby in the media as well.
Doesn't stand up to the smell test though.
Last 16 games
Khabby 0-11-0
DD 2-1-2
Overall for the year
SV%
35 .891
40 .916
GAA
35 3.45
40 2.76
Points% (team points earned/available points)
35 .281
40 .470
LT is right 35 is done, and its not close.
40 plays in front of the same team and he is better by a huge margin that would be really tough to attribute simply to luck. (small sample size, I know)
Its funny. When Tampa picked up Rollie, most of the local media talked about Yz needing to fix the "terrible TBY goaltending"
Smith .883
Ellis .887
Khabby.891
But none of them mention the word "horrible" in the same sentence as Khabby.
They should.
@ Ducey
ReplyDeleteI am not sold on that arguement of Renney protecting DD and his confidence. I dont think there is a worse confidence killer than siting on the bench after giving the club its first win in like 7-8 games.
NK's record speaks for itself.
NK is bad, injury prone and plain and simple old. ST made a huge mistake by signing him and can not get out of this mess one way or the other. If ST is smart, he should look at next season with a total cap of Cap ceiling - 3.5 million and assemble a better 23 man roster
@ WG
ReplyDeletethats because TB is fighting for division and conference championship and Oilers towards the 1st overall pick.
NK this season = Toskala last season. And that is as bad as it gets.
NK is the worst starting goalie in the league bar none.
I think they are over achieving. At the start of the year I had them finishing last.
ReplyDelete... You can't rush this curve. Yes, they are supposed to be this bad.
spOILer: This is the internet, mate.
ReplyDeleteKubrick? What do you want to know, about him or any of his movies? I don't know Barry Lyndon/2001 very well, but could talk until the cows come home about The Shining/Paths of Glory/A Clockwork Orange/The Killing...somewhat about Killer's Kiss, not too sure about Sparticus since he quit the production and took his name off it.
Fear and Desire is horrible, really bad - virtually unwatchable. Kubrick himself refused to accept it as a real movie.
It's funny how Stephen King hated The Shining - other than the non-use of vicious hedge animals(impossible to recreate on screen) at the end it's pretty close to the book, imo.
Happy now? :)
Ducey: You echo my sentiments exactly. There's no point in throwing Dubnyk out there every night.
ReplyDeleteHe's on pace to play 30ish games and if Renney runs him out a bit more in the second half he'll play closer to 35.
I think Renney has handled Dubnyk just fine. Khabby hasn't played very well this year and it may be the end of the line for him.
I know the difference is obvious between goaltending and other positions but maybe we're forgetting that we can't pick and choose minutes for goalies.
You can't shelter them from playing against the toughs etc... etc... in a particular game. What you can do is manage which games they play and when.
Renney and co. have to make sure Dubnyk can handle the mental strain of being bombarded night in and night out. Physically there are no issues but you have to make sure he's ready mentally.
Treat it like a workout regimen. You don't start bench pressing 250lbs. You start with 125lbs and work your way up.
It would be a mistake to change the coach again. I think you have to keep Renney for next year at least.
ReplyDeleteObservation: (NOT an endorsement or criticism, just an observation)
Tambellini is NOT a rotisserie league GM. He seems to be a process-oriented GM. Look at his background.
i.e. He is not the kind of GM that will look first to fixes via trades. Build the systems and processes, the scouting department, the farm team, the coaching in the organization, and the results will follow.
Observation: Tambellini's worst decisions seems to have been in UFA evaluation. Khabibulin, Foster, Fraser Mercifully, only one deadly contract there, and Dubnyk may bail him out.
Observation: His trading has been minimal, with reasonable results.
His methodical approach is going to continue to drive most of the oilogosphere nuts.
His tenure as GM will be determined by end result of whatever happens with Hemsky and or Penner, and whatever UFA decisions he makes this summer.
And NHL results have to show progress next year....i.e. running with the pack.
Kubrick didn't care what the original author of a book intended. It was just rough source material and background for a movie he wanted to make. (In the case of The Shining, Kubrick made a movie about the genocide of the American Indian, and how American's have "forgotten" but are still haunted by that crime against humanity.)
ReplyDeleteNo different than Shakespeare taking established stories and making them his own.
Or many modern musicians sampling the works of others to make new works.
One assumes the boss is the real hand behind things - so far Lowe/Tambellini have been living off a combination of Boys on the Bus, and corporate nice guy.
ReplyDeleteKatz on the other hand has enough of the fan in him not to want to own the worst team(okay the 2nd worst) team in the NHL. He's bound to get ribbed by his pals, and that's going to suck no matter how rich he is.
Katz is probably a ruthless, totally obsessive and driven SOB, full stop.
My theory is, Tambellini's as good as gone by next All Star break, unless the Oilers are in the playoff hunt.
Woodguy
ReplyDeleteI think you are confusing me with someone who thinks reKhab is a good goalie and the signing was brilliant.
However, NK has had bad run support through those 11 games. Nothing you show there changes that. And I can think of three reasonable reasons why he got more starts in the first half of the season.
But none of that changes the fact that I wish to god we could get away from him and that contract.
godot10 - Once you purchase the screen rights to a book, it's yours to do with whatever you like.
ReplyDeleteIt's one of the reasons authors often feel hard done by, lol.
@RiversQ check the two stories on our front page - scoring chances and Fenwick%.
ReplyDeleteLT
ReplyDeleteNot sure that my overwhelming dislike of hockey operations management does not cloud my take on the coaching staff. Not in a bad way, I just do not see them. I do not attribute natural errors to the things they do.
If you asked to drive a truck with one flat tire, no spare and the load set on only one side of the truck bed. You will not deliver your load quickly and efficiently. Bad driver.... For me, not so much. The douche that can't be bothered to get you a spare or allow you to fix the flat. Beyond incompetent.
From now to end of the year it is all about evaluating the young (ish) to see what they can do can do. Can MPS play centre. Never thought of it but what a great 3C if he could do it. Defense with scoring. Can Peckham and Petry play 2 nd pairing effectively. Get Plante 6 or 7 games to see if he has progressed. Bring Belle back up for the same number of games. DD should be playing 1/2 from here to the end. Not soft teams.
We should also be scrutinizing other rosters to see what large wingers/centers may become available thru trades, RFA and UFA or is Steve just going to wait to the summer to start looking a la Manny Malhotra. Has a 1st choice but, apparently, no 2nd, 3rd or 4th.
Listening to 960 out of Calgary yesterday and Dreger or ;Friedman mentioned that Oilers are only team in west that is selling at this time. Once other teams reach that point-- sellers, we no longer get a premium for what we might be selling.
Too bad Steve has a plan and the plan says wait for trade deadline to think about trades. Then evaluation will need to be done
Only on the Internet would anyone call out somebody for their knowledge of Kubrick.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the chuckle.
Good post LT, because like a lot of the players that have underachieved, the coaching staff has been on its hands and knees looking for nickels a lot of the time. A lot of questionable decisions have been made by the coaching staff, but I also do feel upper mgmt has really thrown them a grenade.
ReplyDeleteI agree with calling up Hartkainen, I'd also call up Plante. Both for the reasons, to see where they are at, and to have some players that are tougher to play against. If we are going to lose lets at least go down fighting.
As for for Stortini, its either time for him "man" up or hit the bricks. If he never played another game for the Oilers, I'd be fine with it.
SumOil said...
ReplyDelete@ RiversQ
http://www.coppernblue.com/2011/1/30/1963137/oilers-scoring-chances-at-the-all-star-break
Yeah, no mention of score effects there. I don't have tremendous confidence in the conclusions there. No doubt the top six (specifically the top four of 10, 27, 83, and 4) is way better than the rest of the team, but beyond that, I'm not so sure.
Ok, I see it in Derek's comment to the Fenwick post. So for the recent Petry games with the score tied or within a goal, they are almost exactly break even by SC. That sounds right to me. They can win the SC battle when the other team stops forechecking.
ReplyDeleteI didn't mind Renny calling out 89for the hissy fit. If there is one thing i can't stand it is hissy fits. It usually means someone on the other team got under your skin or got away with a stick to the face or some other grievous act. Suck it up and play hard. Hissy fits have no place in the oil game and it sure won't work in the play offs when everything is on the line. That being said, it is just one other thing that Renny has to help this team understand. The call out on 89? I'm good with it.
ReplyDeleteWhen I think of Renney, I think of a man with a plan. He had an entire season to come up with what he would do with this team and I think his plan is what got him the job a year early.
ReplyDeleteI would not be surprised to hear that the plan to play Khabibulin as much as possible was outlined at the beginning of the year. He's the gaddamned MVP!, of course. This is something Renney and Tambellini agreed upon and it was set in stone. Damn the results.
I would also not be surprised if they had plans on running certain special teams systems for X amount of games before trying to switch them. Damn the results.
Hall plays wing for half the season. Damn the results.
We need MacIntyre on the bench. Damn the results.
We brought Foster in to shoot the puck. Damn the results.
Cogliano is to become a shutdown center. Damn the results.
So it goes. I don't think they're mad enough to have believed from the get-go that they were going to be winning this season and they are just sticking to the plan. See what works, what doesn't work, and go from there.
With this mindset, I give them some slack this season. When this stuff hasn't changed by next season, that's when I worry.
Re: Kubrick,
ReplyDeleteJust havin some fun, lol.
I don't think Nabokov would've been too unhappy with his adaptation, but he would be the only one.
Kubrick didn't care what authors thought. He wanted to toy with the idea of narrator in cinema. Lolita, of course, he does so in the same way as the ground-breaking Nabokov--using an untrusted narrator. In Clockwork, he plays with the tyranny of narrative, especially the tyranny of cinema, movies, and similar performances. 2001 had three invented narrators competing for the story. Barry Lyndon is about space, expanse as narrator; Shining, architectural space. Jacket about how war & conflict bends narrative and perspective, even takes it over, subsumes it.
If he had lived longer I expect he would have done a film on the plastic narrative that has surrounded Team Oiler over the years. Starring Dennis.
When this stuff hasn't changed by next season, that's when I worry.
ReplyDeleteMight depend on how many changes are made, rookies in the line up and injuries that sort of thing.
I watch every game with close interest to see improvements with the youth on this club. They come in spurts. Fasinating.
Fire Renney and he would be hired in a New York second.
ReplyDeleteTraktor: Classic. Very good line.
ReplyDeleteHow the rich really talk trash:
ReplyDelete"Hey Katz, what kind of a man are you if you can't talk a bunch of Podunk sausage vendors out of a few hundred million dollars to upgrade your box seats?"
The business of sports is to sell hope. The asking price is a new arena. So that's clear then. We all know what to do if we want to see Katz turn on the taps for a winning season.
Sarcasm aside, on on board with Godot. ST is a process man. Fixing processes that surround the product on the ice is exactly how you *avoid* becoming the Oakland Seals. A fixation on dickering with the most visible problems is how you become the patron saint of the mediocre.
The real problem with this team from the fan perspective is that this management group is extremely tight lipped about mandate and lines of responsibility.
The only thing 100% clear about Renney's mandate was to grow the rookies. We have three of the top 15 rookies in league scoring and they've been given experience in all situations. How do you fault that?
Everything else is a joint product of the three headed monster, one of which is holding this town hostage for a new arena.
I think LM nailed it in that Renney's either bad or he's tanking.
ReplyDeleteI know I was as big a MacT fan as there was but when he left the 4th line out there too long in a couple of games - I remember one game at Ctl in particular - then I agreed with pretty much the rest that it was time for him to go.
Fuckrey like that is just something I can't abide.
Lately I think he's a big caught up in all the power he think's he has or maybe it's a realistic manifestation of the power he really Does have because the whole deal with the PK and ST in general is unreal.
My opinion of the GP of Khabby and DD is I understand you bring the kid along slowly and you give the pricey oldster a fine length of rope but I think that's reached it's apex now and you being the last part of the season with DD as #1 and the vet trying to get his foot back in the door.
Cory Schneider 766:33
ReplyDeleteJonathan Bernier 779:52
Tuukka Rask 875:51
Devan Dubnyk 999.51
Semyon Varlamov 1111,59
Jonas Gustavsson 1175,00
Looks to me like Dubnyk is playing the same time as other young goalies that are thought to have starter potential.
Renney is a badd badd man.
re: Khabby not getting run support.
ReplyDeleteI've heard this defense of Khabby in the media as well.
Doesn't stand up to the smell test though.
For what it's worth, I reviewed the last 18 games (7 for DD, 11 for NK).
With NK: 18 GF, 1.64 per game
With DD: 19 GF, 3.17 per game
I tossed out an ENG in Dubnyk's favour, otherwise he'd have 20 GF.
Small sample size, but that's a noticable difference.
I don't thank that excuse NK's poor numbers, though. If we lost all those games 2-1, maybe there'd be an argument. But when we're losing games 6-1 and 4-1, a couple of extra Oilers goals are not rewriting history.
Sometimes reading this blog is like flipping the channels.
ReplyDeleteRenney
Dubnyk
Kubrick
Dubnyk
Kubrick
Renney
Cory Schneider 766:33
ReplyDeleteJonathan Bernier 779:52
Tuukka Rask 875:51
Devan Dubnyk 999.51
Semyon Varlamov 1111,59
Jonas Gustavsson 1175,00
Looks to me like Dubnyk is playing the same time as other young goalies that are thought to have starter potential.
Yeah, and if NK was playing like Tim Thomas, or Luongo, or even Quick (0.920), maybe that would make sense. The only team with a worse starter than backup is Washington, and they're an odd fit because it's not like Neuvirth is anything but a kid either.
@ Traktor
ReplyDeleteWhat a great argument. One without the Sv% of the respective starting goalies. Furthermore the only reason varlamov has played so little is his injury riddles season.
last season when Thomas was not playing upto his vezina standards, Tukka rask played 40+ games
If Kubrick was the coach of this team - does anyone seriously think MacIntyre wouldn't get sent out to crosscheck someone?
ReplyDeleteI'd give money to see hockey players work with CO dialogue. "No time for the old in and out, I've just come to read the meter."
ReplyDeleteThat's a movie I'd see.
Shining lines that work well for the Oilers mgmt:
ReplyDeleteLowe/Tambo: What do you think should be done about DANY?
Khabibulin: I'd give my goddamned soul, just for a glass of beer.
Shitzo:
ReplyDeletePointing out what NK is doing is just a diversion.
What LT or yourself should be doing is showing how Renney has stunted DD's progress.
a) DD is having his best year statistically
b) DD's playing time is on par with other highly regarded prospects
I have all day...
Traktor:
ReplyDeleteYou're one of those guys who's always walking around with a black eye, right?
FFS, it's your tone. You may have intelligent insight to add to the conversation, but when you bleat it out like a 12 year old bully all the time, it's highly annoying.
I for one would constantly be fighting the urge to either walk away in disgust or challenge you to a fight if this were a "real-life" conversation.
Why don't you just try to add some value?
That Washington - Vancouver game is really wide open.
ReplyDeleteConan: So your idea of a respectful tone is calling Traktor a "12 year old boy" who is "bleating" and suggesting that your best answer to him in person would be to punch him? I for one am grateful that Traktor isn't taking notes on civility from you.
ReplyDeleteTo the actual point, I think there's a lot to be said for taking it slowly with developing young goalies, especially when they have a horrible team in front of them that leaves them exposed night in and night out.
My gut reaction is that he should have more starts if they are developing him, but since the majority of commentors on this blog tend to value stats over 'saw him good', I'm puzzled that the criticism is being leveled without any statistics or comps (and I apologize if there are: I've not read the full thread) being put up to prove exactly how Dubnyk is being mishandled at this point. It seems there is a healthy list of young goalies who've been advanced too fast and have either crumbled or stalled on their development curve due to overexposure.
Traktor:
ReplyDeleteI think what you should be saying is "DD's playing time is on par with other highly regarded prospects behind superior, proven starting goaltenders, on teams with incentive to succeed"
Your argument suggests that the reason young goalies don't play more than the cluster you've identified is that they will somehow be harmed. It totally ignores any other possible competing interests, like playing the better, veteran goalie because you want to make the playoffs. (Or in the case of the Leafs, to avoid finishing bottom-2 when you have no first rounder).
Given that the Oilers have none of these competing interests, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that following the "normal path" of goalie development makes no sense.
I can point to Price or Rask and say that goalies can be very good, playing a lot of games, at a young age. Ultimately that doesn't prove my case any more than you throwing out a bunch of names proves yours.
As someone who has followed DD as closely as anyone over the years - I'm fine with his handling this year. He's getting real coaching for the first time and has noticeably improved his game this season - his confidence has also grown in spite of the losing environment. Basically steady as she goes this year. They are tweaking his game so you give the kid enough time to solidify Chabot's technical improvements before throwing him to the wolves in a 60 game season. No time to change or improve in that kind of pressure cooker. So letting him set a solid technical foundation in limited starts this season is reasonable and will serve both DD and the team better in the long term.
ReplyDeleteReally good points, AO. I couldn't agree more.
ReplyDeleteHunter: I had no idea Kubrick was once at the helm of Spartacus. Why did he leave the project?
Schitzo,
ReplyDeleteThanks for that, changes the narrative a bit.
spOILer,
I wasn't calling you out specifically, it was that I had heard a few media guys on the radio and TV lament how poor the team was in front of Khabby while not bringing up DD's name, record or SV% at all.
While 35's contract has been the ire of the blogosphere for a while, its just now becoming the elephant in the room that some media are afraid to acknowledge.
The only thing I can remember reading from the local guys is this piece by Terry Jones from 12 days ago.
Asia:
ReplyDeleteI hope that your explanation is the reality. Playing NK a lot to control DD's starts is a lot easier to stomach than playing NK because the brass genuinely believes he's the MVP. Or worse, that he needs to play a lot because he makes more money.
Plus, your explanation made a lot more sense than Traktor's vague appeal to authority that all the cool teams are doing it, so we should to.
Since this thread is about Tom Renney I'll leave you all with a Tom Renney quote that sums up my feelings in regards to DD taking over NH's playing time:
ReplyDelete"Why go there?"
- Tom Renney
4-0 ... the unsafest lead in hockey.
ReplyDeleteOf course that 18-12 lead in the second period probably isn't money in the bank either.
FFS, this is unwatchable.
Ha, Hughson stole my line.
ReplyDelete@ Traktor
ReplyDeleteWhy go there is because NK is totally useless and DD deserves some more playing time.
Rask played upwards of 40 games last season because his play then was better than his starter.
Why go there- because DD is not 20 or 22 but 24, old enough to be able to handle some serious minutes.
DD's case is more similar to Corey Crawford or James Howard than Schnieder or Johnathan Bernier
The assumption is that Renney has control over many of these decisions. I see Renney as more of a puppet in this whole scheme.
ReplyDeleteA frustrating time to be an Oiler fan, and I often find myself looking for someone to blame (see previous Whitney trade tirades). However, the final stretch will be inspiring, but unfortunately will have us picking lower than anticipated in the draft. It is always darkest before dawn.
And just like that its 4-4
ReplyDeleteGO LIDSTROM
I think we've all been dancing around the real issue of the day here, so I'll ask the big question:
ReplyDeleteHow awesome is the Guardian Project?! (I'm sorry... I couldn't resist).
Signing NK was obviously a mistake and he looks done as a starter - but you don't compound that error by rushing a promising rookie who needs time to cement his fundamentals. Especially a big guy like DD who relies on technique since he doesn't have elite athleticism to bail him out of mistakes. About 35 starts is just fine as a development year - then try him as a 1B starter next year - and lean on him the year after if all goes well.
ReplyDelete@RiversQ - for a team without Whitney and Horcoff for 2/3 of those games, I'll take it.
ReplyDeleteSwap Souray in for Strudwick and a legitmate NHLer in for Vandermeer and the defense isn't so bad.
Add someone in the Nabakov class to pair with Dubnyk and a couple of guy from the Wes Walz tree and they aren't that far off.
Unfortunately, we've been saying the same thing since...1937?
Asia: assuming he develops properly and injuries don't creep in, where do you see DD's ultimate potential? Is he likely to be The Guy (and up to the job) when the Oilers are eventually in a position to make a legitimate stab at the Cup?
ReplyDeleteI never remember noticing teams playing to the score so obviously as this year. Det just turned it on and off against the Oil in that last matchup. It was amazing.
ReplyDeleteRiversQ: I was at that game and it was stunning. Detroit was laying back and somehow Osgood seived one in that tied the score and it was like the ice tilted 30° immediately thereafter. Within a minute of Oilers tying it I said to my seatmate "man, the Wings just dialled it up about four notches, look out below" and sure enough. They just poured it on until they got one and then another, and then the Oilers got a couple of consolation chances at the end with the game safely in the bag. But on the drive home the radio boys were going on and on about how the Oilers had the Red Wings on the ropes and couldn't get a bounce yada yada, leaving me and my pal wondering if we had attended a different game in an alternate and definitely not parallel universe.
In general while I love scoring chances as a metric, I agree with your take that score effects are Gigantic. Same goes for Corsi, Fenwick, shots, etc. and on the flip side Sh%. Score-driven context is critical but comes at a cost of reduced sample size. I'm not sure a stat yet exists or is even possible which will provide a true measure.
Icecastles....
ReplyDeleteBeen following DD pretty regularly since we drafted him and I'm still not sure on his upside - who can be sure about anything with goalies :) But my comp has always been Sean Burke - a very good but not elite big starter who had a long career and a nice stretch of years where he carried his team.
Icecastles: Kubrick got the Sparticus gig from Kirk Douglas after they worked together on Paths of Glory.
ReplyDeleteHe shot most if not all of the Sparticus footage, but felt like an asshole working in the confines of a heavily unionized, achaic Hollywood system - and the DOP loudly calling him out for being a Jew didn't help.
Last 16 games
ReplyDeleteKhabby 0-11-0
DD 2-1-2
WG: Actually,
Khabi 0-11-0,
DD 3-1-3
over the last 18 (since the mid-December break and Renney's pronouncement about playoffs, through to the All-Star break). Their respective points percentages over that span are .000 and .643.
For what it's worth, I reviewed the last 18 games (7 for DD, 11 for NK).
With NK: 18 GF, 1.64 per game
With DD: 19 GF, 3.17 per game
@Schitzo: Sorry to nitpick, but that would be 19/7 = 2.71 goals per game in support of DD. Consider the three scoreless OTs further reduces it to 2.62 per 60. Whereas NK hasn't even made it to OT, so "per game" and "per 60" are the same in his case. So yes, better support for DD, but not quite as big a gap as you suggest.
I had a detailed look at the first 16 of that 18-game stretch earlier this week (here) and did factor in goal support, but the bigger difference was on the goals against side of the equation, which is well over one goal per game on roughly similar shot rates. That one goal is arguably the difference between the seven one-goal regulation losses that Khabi posted in that time, vs. the three OT games that Dubnyk recorded. Khabi has lost no fewer than five games in that span by (effectively) a 3-2 score, no surprise given he's allowed 3+ goals in his last seven straight starts.
That said, if tanking is the goal, then there is absolutely no denying Khabi's MVP contributions. No quicker way to the bottom of the standings than a string of regulation losses. Give that man this year's Strudwick Award.
Schizo: You're right.
ReplyDeleteApologies to all for that outburst.
Conan,
ReplyDeleteDon't apologize. What you said was right and well put.
Bruce,
ReplyDeleteMore good info.
Thanks for rescuing my narrative.
People around here often say stuff like the following:
ReplyDelete"Player X's development was hurt by too much playing time."
and the contrary
"Player X's development has hurt by too little playing time."
Everytime I hear it, I ask myself, "Why should I believe that?" And the answer, it seems, is always: just sort of seems like the kind of thing people say about player development.
Really, pretty much everytime someone says anything about a player developing, they're just making totally unsubstantiated stuff up.
The reason to play Dubnyk is that NK is crappy, and we want to see how good Dubnyk is before we decide on who we might try to bring in next year. (Where we'll try to win.)
Ribs' post at 1201pm - maybe giving the management-coaching too much credit but I agree with pretty much all of the post. Theme - "damn the results".
ReplyDeleteI really hope they turn things up a gear or 2 in next 6 months to chart a sustained winning course for this organization.
To play the devil's advocate for a bit, personnel moves are not the purview of Renney. He has the option of not playing Stortini, Dubnyk etc.
ReplyDeleteI have it on good authority (from a media guy who worked for the Oilers at the time) that in the Lowe-MacT era, Lowe made at least some decisions about who dressed, so if that arrangement has persisted, it's possible that Renney has even less authority than you stated (which only strengthens your point).
To me, I think the most damning evidence that ST has no idea what he's doing came when he was interviewed n Sportsnet (i believe) between periods and started talking "evaluation" again! I was shocked to hear that word. By Year 3 of the rebuild (and yes, this is year 3), evaluating players on the roster should not be the primary focus
ReplyDeleteIn fairness, there are a non-trivial number of players on the roster who weren't around for most of the first two years of the rebuild.
That is, in case I'm not being clear, an extraordinarily limited defense of Steve Tambellini.
Observation: Tambellini's worst decisions seems to have been in UFA evaluation. Khabibulin, Foster, Fraser Mercifully, only one deadly contract there, and Dubnyk may bail him out.
ReplyDeleteFraser wasn't a UFA.
I think we need to wait and see what happens when the Oilers hire Steve Tambellini to be general manager.
ReplyDeleteGood post and some good arguments. I think Renney does deserve some of the criticism for his game generalship. Some nights there's not much to choose from and over a long season you will get exposed.
ReplyDeleteBut on area I'll defend him is with personnel decisions (who's on the roster). IIRC there was disagreement with 3.0 re: the Ginger. Renney wanted him, GM sent him down and that was that.
Also have to wonder if there is more context to Omark's comments when he was sent down to (politics). And possibly some others.
I don't like his use of Smac, Zorg or the stubborness in which they are sticking to a system on the PK that can't be executed. But the GM and Prez of Hockey Ops deserve more blame for the make up of the roster. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken-you-know-what and that's what he's being asked to do.
And long-term I'm deeply concered with a team that gets used to losing. It has long-term negative effects on a locker room, effects that don't change by just adding more talented kids.
You can't make chicken salad out of chicken-you-know-what
ReplyDeleteYou can make it. It justs tastes as bad as the Oilers PK. Or something.
You can make it. It justs tastes as bad as the Oilers PK. Or something.
ReplyDeleteMy response was going to be "you may not be able to make chicken salad from it, but you can at least refrain from spreading it all over the walls", but then I thought that might be construed as an attack on Renney, and I'm mostly agnostic on him to this point (aside from the MacIntyre thing, which is really dumb but likely has only a limited effect on the team).
There is one place where Renney does deserve credit and that is his handling of 43. He has made strudwick a permanent #7 on the club and injuries have lead to call ups and not 43 with regular shifts on D
ReplyDeleteThis has already gotten eaten twice, but I'm going to try again, because I'm not big on that whole "definition of insanity" thing (again, LT, if it's been you deleting it, just let me know and I'll stop):
ReplyDeleteIs anyone else reminded of this when reading comments sections after Willis's ON posts?
No thanks, Frank. All the best.
ReplyDelete@RiversQ - one more quickie:
ReplyDeleteCH% since Petry
Tied: .488
Down one: .524
Before that, essentially 2010:
Tied: .390
Down one: .430
@Schitzo: Sorry to nitpick, but that would be 19/7 = 2.71 goals per game in support of DD.
ReplyDeleteWhoops, math is hard sometimes. Good catch WG
If Tom Gilbert started playing like Jason Studwick does that mean we should play Jeff Petry 25 minutes a night, or is Petry's development and Tom Gilbert's play seperate items?
ReplyDeleteBruce: tell the truth: you really don't mind nitpitcking in the least;)
ReplyDeleteBTW, does anyone know why the Maclean/Bettman interview didn't happen today? that usually happens during one of the intermissions of the ASG, doesn't it?
I was watching the Celts/Lakers game and PVRing the hky game and I buzzed through it looking for that interview and it never happened.
LT (and everyone else), you can't criticize Renney at this point, this is just Renney 1.0, Renney 2.0 doesn't show up until late this year or maybe even next training camp. We can't even think about winning until Renney 3.0 appears.
ReplyDeleteDennis: I don't mind nitpicking in the least, someone's got to and I used to be an accountant and still am a proof reader. But I learned early on to apologize every step of the way. :)
ReplyDeleteThe Oilesr were expected to suck.
ReplyDeleteAnd they suck.
What's the problem?
What's the problem?
ReplyDeleteThe Oilers were expected to suck.
The problem is, ever since Mark Messier was traded away for nothing, this franchise has been second rate at best.
ReplyDeleteAnd we're all forced to hope that Vish(who's clearly been exposed as a second rate manager) and company somehow possess enough of the magical dynasty characteristics to somehow lead the team back to the promised land.
I'm with LT, I can't wait until Steve Tambellini is finally given control of this team. Then he can, you know, evaluate it and stuff.
ReplyDeleteThe Renney shine is off for me, but I might just be going on the fan bandwagon here. I hope they keep him around for next season, but if it is more of the same, it is no great mischief to let him go during the season. Mind you, management better give him better roster support too.
ReplyDeleteOT
hunter,
I got around to realising you posted on my site, and replied. Sorry it took so long.
What's the problem?
ReplyDeleteThe Oilers will continue to suck.
Firing Renney with Toonces and Bumbles the clown at the helm is probably a pretty dumb idea.
ReplyDeleteYou could genetically engineer a Toe Blake, Scotty Bowman, Pat Burns hybrid and it still couldn't do shit with this team.
Development mistakes don't show up in prospects' rookie seasons. (except for Brule breaking his sternum)
ReplyDeleteWhen you have bought hope, the 'time to worry' is always in the future.
I have a moral objection patronizing business that are terrible at what they do.
The only way we're further ahead with firing Renney is if his two bosses go with him.
ReplyDeleteThe long & short of it is, the Oilers are who we thought they'd be.
I've got to confess. My wife got me tickets to the Feb 17th game and I'm not looking forward to it all. It's going to be terrible. At least I'll be wearing my skin tight Messier jersey and it will remind me of better times.
ReplyDeletePlus I think Tom Renney would look much better if we canned the GM and president and got real ones who gave him a real team to work with. LT use your powers for good and advocate beheading this hydra of terribleness.
Smarmy - She's probably mad at you for something. The tickets are punishment.
ReplyDeleteIf you needed another reason to not play Khabibulin...From Tencers blog the other day...
ReplyDeleteIn addition, though they haven’t missed any playing time, guys like Nikolai Khabibulin and Tom Gilbert have been battling through various bumps and bruises that could use an extended maintenance period.
Gilberts knee was bugging him a while back so I imagine that's his injury. We still haven't been told what Khabibulins problem is.
The one problem I have with Tambellini's leadership is that it's so goddamn pervasive, right down to the special teams. If I have to watch one more Oiler standing still looking lost on the powerplay, "evaluating" things just like Stevey, I think I'm going to put my remote through my beautiful 27" CRT.
ReplyDelete...wait, then I'd finally have to buy a new one. Go 3.0 go!!!
You could genetically engineer a Toe Blake, Scotty Bowman, Pat Burns hybrid...
ReplyDeleteCan we call him "Toey Boo-urns?"
I was saying Boo-urns.
Not wanting to beat a dead horse, but exactly when was the last time the Oilers powerplay was a force to be reckoned with?
ReplyDeleteThis is kind of funny..
ReplyDeleteLOCKE, OMARK AMONG RISING STARS IN AHL ALL-STAR GAME ON TSN
Do they know something we don't?
Hehe..They've fixed it now. They even had an Omark pic up there.
ReplyDeleteWhen it was run with a full complement of capable personnel. That is, Hemsky, Smyth, Horcoff, and Pronger.
ReplyDeleteActually last year, the PP ran a respectable <a href="http://espn.go.com/nhl/statistics/team/_/stat/special-teams/sort/powerPlayPct/year/2010>17.3% clip.</a> And considering they were in the top 10 of pp opportunities, that would've gotten them a few more goals.
ReplyDeleteI think PP wasn't what kept them out of post-season however.
Renney's handling of the ST is his biggest fault, the rest is pretty minor compared to that.
ReplyDeleteHitchcock has said you can always evaluate a coach based on ST performance because that is where coaching can have the biggest impact.
So, when 83 and 14 get activated, who goes down?
With 85 needing to clear waivers v3.0 will actually have to make a decision on a player.
I'm cynical enough that I think 23 goes down because he doesn't have to clear.
I think its either 33 or 46, and my $ is on 46.
If I had my druthers it would be 22 and 33.
Dennis: I believe Bettman is avoiding a confrontation with MacLean because of the situation that is about to erupt in Phoenix.
ReplyDeleteThe Coyotes are on the verge of having to relocate back to Winnipeg. The City of Glendale has so far been unable to issue the bonds needed to help subsidize Hulsizer's purchase of the Coyotes.
They are forking over $100 million for parking rights at Jobing.com arena and another $97 million to Hulsizer to operate the arena over the next 5 years.
The situation is quickly coming to a head and a decision needs to be made. True North will not pay more than $170 million (which allows the NHL and CoG to break even on this year). The NHL does not want to own the team next year as there are other fires needing to be put out.
That is why IMO Bettman is avoiding the question period with MacLean this year.
Wolfie: Pat MacLean?
ReplyDeleteRon.... or are you poking fun?
ReplyDeleteFrom today's Globe it looks like the Thrashers have been having some discussions with True North as well.
ReplyDeleteI want as many teams in Can as possible and I hope Atl and Phx moves back to Winnipeg and Quebec City and that TO gets another team as well.
It would be nice not to have to keep reading about it all the fucking time and for it to actually happen.
amen Dennis.
ReplyDeleteIts McLean, not MacLean.
ReplyDeleteSounds like Bettman is starting to signal that they're ready for some parts of the grand experiment to be over. Its pretty clear that some of these clubs will never make a go of it. They could probably fold a half dozen clubs and nobody would even notice. Plus we'd get Stamkos in the dispersal draft!!!
I read a great article on the Phoenix situation that was linked to on twitter last week, wish I could provide the link. Taxpayers in that state are constantly taking it up the ass and the whole Coyotes' boondoggle is just another example. The article was in an Arizona newspaper. It was unbelievable.
I have learned to never trust what I read in the papers as being the up to the moment, totally objective truth.
ReplyDeleteJournalists for the most part do as good a job as they can, but in the end the billionaire owners are accountable to almost no one - the sign of a neo-feudalistic society in formation.
These racketeers can do anything they like - the losses from their hockey operations might be a pain in the arse, but ultimately the support structure that Gary Bettman presides over(the other NHL owners) can take these losses - otherwise they'd have been moved a while ago.
The fans can hope for Christmas every day of the year as is their perogative, but in the end the owners will do whatever they see fit.
Of course a month ago Egypt looked like a fairly stable political system. Things can change in a hurry, it's just that most of the time they simply don't.
I'm cynical enough that I think 23 goes down because he doesn't have to clear.
ReplyDeleteI don't mind sending 23 down along with 22.
They can call 23 back up post trade deadline. Hopefully they will have opened up a spot or two on the 28th.
Marc Spector tweet...
ReplyDeleteTold by an NHL exec this morning that Brian Burke was "ballistic" over NHLPA poll results. "Furious."
Hee hee...
I want as many teams in Can as possible and I hope Atl and Phx moves back to Winnipeg and Quebec City and that TO gets another team as well.
ReplyDeleteToronto has an NHL team?
Anyways....
When it comes to who comes out when someone is ready to come back in (and apparently Eberle is skating without the "red jersey" at practice today), he thinks it's Reddox who should come out.
Which, to anyone who has watched the last month of games or has seen JF Jacques or Colin Fraser play this season, makes zero sense.
Which is precisely why it's exactly what will happen.
Hbomb,
ReplyDelete"Who" thinks 85 is coming out?
And here I thought Renney was the perfect coach for this team. Every time I read a quote from him I agree with it 100%.
ReplyDeleteWoodguy,
ReplyDeleteCrap. Slow on a Monday.
Anyways, this came from Jason Gregor.
Now that you know the source, are you really surprised?
Hbomb,
ReplyDeleteGot it.
Makes sense now.
Well it doesn't make sense, but ....
It's painful now, but wait until Vish's office boy bounds gaily up to the stage on draft day.
ReplyDeleteNot that there's anything wrong with that.
My pin password is bosco
ReplyDeleteGene tweets...
ReplyDeleteRenney saying Dubnyk will play a fair share of final 33 games..he says Dubnyk is working his way closer to being a #1 netminder
Also, Eberle taking the Renney Test tomorrow.
well, 83's still on the active roster so I guess neither him nor 67 will be ready for tomorrow night, then?
ReplyDeletesounds like the biggest issue right now is 14 in and someone out.
am I reading that correctly? or by "85 out" do you mean someone's getting farmed and it's Reddox?
the only way the Oilers have to make a move is if both 14-67 are coming off the IR.
so are we talking roster move or lineup move?
Reddox is the kind of player a good team wouldn't be afraid to waive. Of course, that's because that good team would have a roster full of players better than Reddox.
ReplyDeleteBrule's not even skating yet so I wouldn't worry about him coming back...(ever?)
ReplyDelete@ Steve Smith:
ReplyDeleteYou seem to be forgetting Reddox's "feel good" factor.
Dvorak, Rem Murray in 2006, Smyth arguably ffs, Toby(allowed MacT to ignore Schremp) Peterson, the list goes on.
It's called mediocre franchise fan management - to wit Lowe is a grand master.
Renney also said about 33 "that man has to play.
ReplyDeleteI don`t believe anything Renney says until it happens.
Renney`s promises reminds me of that hot girl that was always gonna screw you once she broke up with her boyfriend.
Hunter: In case I wasn't clear, I don't think the Oilers should waive Reddox. He's useful enough, in a marginal NHLer sort of a way, and we have an alarming number of guys who don't even meet that threshold, who should go first.
ReplyDeleteBut I think some people around the Oilogosphere look at Reddox, see that he's maybe the ninth or tenth* best forward the Oilers have (factoring in his range of skills) and forget that that says more about the Oilers than it does about Reddox.
*These numbers pulled out of my ass with very little thought.
I thought 83 was on IR?
ReplyDelete67 had the flu, then it was his ribs, then ankle, now flu again?
Hmmmm.....
Haha, yea. They are saying the flu again. It's funnier when he has a new ailment every week. Just trade him and be done with it.
ReplyDeleteCocaine is a hell of a drug.
ReplyDeleteI thought I read the other day that we had 23 players active because even though 83 was DTD with the concussion issues he still had not been put on IR.
ReplyDeleteSo that would leave 14-67 out there and if one of them's activated then someone has to be moved.
is that right?
@Dennis: That's right. My assumption is that if 14 is ready first, that they can put 83 on IR retroactive to last week to make room, and then they're still free to activate 83 as soon as he's ready. But they don't actually have to make a Decision until two of the injured RWs are ready to suit up.
ReplyDeletere: Brule's illness-of-the-week, I've had a few thoughts about that and most of them aren't very funny. I hate to speculate but if you ask yourself what Could it be that explains this pattern of illnesses over two years now, possible answers that fit include the dreaded "personal reasons" to some sort of immune deficiency to the Fernando Flu, all of which are "personal" enough when it gets down to brass tacks that they are understandably tight-lipped about it. It seems to me to be non-trivial to the point of being potentially career-threatening, whatever it is.
Bear in mind I have no idea what the real reason is and have no wish to start rumours, just that the pattern of official reasons that he has missed time is pointing to something more serious than "catches more bugs than a kindergarten teacher".
hunter: 16 teams lost money on hockey operations last year. Only 7 made money while the rest broke even.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure the NHL has much of a choice when it comes to the Coyotes and Glendale.
Dennis: The Thrashers were always the target in Winnipeg. However, when Moyes put the Coyotes into bankruptcy the NHL asked True North to wait on the Thrashers to see if they could help with the Coyotes if needed. Either by purchasing and moving the club or providing outside pressure to get a deal done with the City of Glendale and any prospective buyer with the threat of relocation.
My bad on the MacLean/McLean oopsy. I was too lazy to check and winged it. I should know better especially on this site.
Wolfie - lol, just giving you the gears, no worries
ReplyDeleteBruce - I certainly hope that Brule does not have any serious health problems. That would not be funny at all.
ReplyDelete