No he doesn't shoot enough and yes he doesn't play station to station. It seems to be working for him, right?
The split on Hemsky is pretty much identical to the feeling I had in the months before the Expos traded Gary Carter. The thought process went "we're losing with him, we can lose without him" and so Murray Cook traded a king for four 6's and Expos fans spent the next few years getting acquainted with Mike Fitzgerald, Nelson Santovenia, Jeff Reed, John Stefaro, Marty Pevey and Gil Reyes. And you know what? I bet you money there's a few more too.
I'm not suggesting that Ales Hemsky=Gary Carter, but would politely suggest that when our teams lose we tend to stare at the best players and wonder why they're not doing more to change the situation. It's a team game. Ales Hemsky has flaws, but we're miles from having to worry about them. I've kind of given up on defending him, it is exactly as John Sebastian suggested 45 years ago:
I'll tell you about the magic, and it'll free your soul
But it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock and roll
--
The Oilers are posting an enormous season of rookies. How big? Well, strong enough that we can begin to follow their rise up the all-time Oiler rookie scoring charts:
- Jari Kurri (80-81) 75gp, 32-43-75
- Jason Arnott (93-94) 78gp, 33-35-68
- Dave Lumley (79-80) 80gp, 20-38-58
- Glenn Anderson (80-81) 58gp, 30-23-53
- Sam Gagner (07-08) 79gp, 13-36-49
- Andrew Cogliano (07-08) 82gp, 18-27-45
- Raimo Summanen (85-86) 73gp, 19-18-37
- Miro Satan (95-96) 62gp, 18-17-35
- Jaroslav Pouzar (82-83) 74gp, 15-18-33
- Mike Grier (96-97) 79gp, 15-17-32
- Kyle Brodziak (07-08) 80gp, 14-17-31
- Rem Murray (96-97) 82gp, 11-20-31
- David Oliver (94-95) 44gp, 16-14-30
- Ales Hemsky (02-03) 59gp, 6-24-30
- Jozef Beranek (91-92) 58gp, 12-16-28
- Todd Marchant (94-95) 45gp, 13-14-27
- Dean McAmmond (93-94) 45gp, 6-21-27
- Martin Gelinas (89-90) 46gp, 17-8-25
- Mats Lindgren (96-97) 69gp, 11-14-25
- Scott Fraser (97-98) 29gp, 12-11-23
- Jordan Eberle (10-11) 37gp, 9-14-23
- Taylor Hall (10-11) 41gp, 12-11-23
- Jason Chimera (02-03) 66gp, 14-9-23
- Mike Comrie (00-01) 41gp, 8-14-22
- Jarret Stoll (03-04) 68gp, 10-11-21
While I'm at it, here are the rookie blue. I don't think Belle/Petry will make this list but you never know:
- Tom Gilbert (07-08) 82gp, 13-20-33
- Paul Coffey (80-81) 74gp, 9-23-32
- Randy Gregg (82-83) 80gp, 6-22-28
- Marc-Andre Bergeron (03-04) 54gp, 9-17-26
- Steve Smith (85-86) 55gp, 4-20-24
- Dan McGillis (96-97) 73gp, 6-16-22
- Kevin Lowe (79-80) 64gp, 2-19-21
- Tom Poti (98-99) 73gp, 5-16-21
The salary cap is bringing us unique hockey teams. Example: San Jose. All world up front, morgue at the back. The Sharks are paper thin along the blue and it has a really good chance of costing them the second season. Here is their depth chart with, GP, TOI and career games:
- Dan Boyle 44; 26:59; 720
- M-E Vlasic 44; 21:27; 353
- Doug Murray 35; 19:30; 324
- Jason Demers 38; 19:17; 89
- Justin Braun 15; 16:47; 15
- Kent Huskins 35; 16:20; 259
- Niclas Wallin 39gp; 15:40; 579
- Derek Joslin 13gp; 13:09; 49
- Mike Moore 6gp, 10:06; 6
I'm thinking you must have left this out there for me because without even looking it up I know that luminaries such as Dave Engle and Dann Bilardello would also be on your list.
ReplyDeleteTom Gilbert ahead of Paul Coffey - hilarious, for all the wrong reasons..
ReplyDeleteBest if the Sharks miss the post season, since all they do is choke anyway.
LT: I don't see any reason for fans to feel Hemsky isn't deserving of the honour - sure, if Whitney wasn't injured, he'd be a shoe-in, but he is and Hemsky is the most all-star like (in terms of style and numbers) on the team. Penner isn't having an all-star season, at least not in the obvious, box-car sense. If you ask me, it's about friggin' time Hemsky made an all-star team.
ReplyDeleteWith regards to San Jose, do you see Tambo offering them any of our blue? I can't see it happening, apart from maybe Foster for a pick, but I can't see them wanting him - he's not exactly the "last piece in the puzzle".
Dennis: Yeah, I knew there had to be more. Man that was a cruel time.
ReplyDeleteEasyOil: I think the Oilers could get a pretty penny for Gilbert but would be foolish to deal him (as they need more NHL defensemen, not fewer).
After Gilbert (and Whitney, obviously) I think the Oilers will have Peckham and Petry in the top 6 for 10-11.
After that, it's:
1. Smid
2. Vandermeer
3. Foster
4. Strudwick
I think San Jose might have an interest in Smid or Vandermeer. jmo.
Funny to see Lumley so high atop that list because even though I know he had goal scoring streak what I remember most from him was the big ENG is the cup clinching win over the Isles but also how much I didn't like him when he was on "This Week In The NHL" which used to air at 1030 NST on Wed night just before the Oilers game.
ReplyDeleteYou wonder what the future holds - say the next three years - in revealing the WC powers and it looks like SJ's window has closed shut unless they can find a couple of real D on the cheap and I mean things like two old Brian Ralafski clones are discovered in an old warehouse in Germany and Doug Wilson gets the first crack at them.
The big line's lugging around a collective -30 minus - to be fair to Heatley he's just -1 - but Clowe's having a great year as is Couture.
Setoguchi's now over 100 games into proving that '09 was the exception, though, and there doesn't look like there's any D on their horizon.
I think the Canucks or Wings could handle the Hawks somewhat easily this year but all Chi needs is one more player to come along that can keep up with Dave Bolland and they'll be on the way back to being a real threat.
How are things looking capwise for the Dys and Wings? Dal has some nice things but who knows if they'll be able to afford them and we all keep waiting for it to click in with LA.
I don't think I'm missing anyone, am I?
LT: Yeah thats why I didn't include Gilbert, I wouldn't want to let our one remaining effective d-man go, especially as we don't know how long Whitney will be out. Talking of Whitney LT, do you see the Oilers retaining him long-term? It seems like we could have finally found the backbone of our defence for the future, something we've badly needed after years of very good blueliners moving on after one or two seasons for one reason or another (Pronger, Spacek, Pitkanen, Souray, Visnovsky). I still wished we'd kept Jan Hejda for that matter. I'd call acquiring Whitney management's best move of the last few years but I'm not prepared to actually say it unless we know he's staying!
ReplyDeleteI actually forgot about Smid, which says a lot about how "meh" he's playing at the moment. I think he'd have worth on the trade market though, draft-pedigree and flashes of good play probably give him a fair bit of value. I've always pulled for the kid, good guy and good player when paired with someone complimentary, but too inconsistent and getting passed by younger guys.
I quickly ran to capgeek to see if there was any deadweight we might pick up to help them over the hump. Sadly there doesn't seem to be too many glaringly dumpable contracts among them.
ReplyDeleteHeatley @ 7.5 million is such a brutal deal (that term is frightening). If he's not near the top of the Richard Trophy that contract is a bust as there is not really any other tools in his kit.
If I was Wislon and pondering the win now scenario, I would open up the cupboard and try to end up with Shea Weber somehow. The Preds are likely not adverse to considering options.
chartleys
I agree that the SJS D is thin.
ReplyDeleteYou would think that Murray, Boyle and Vlasic would be enough with the proper filler, but Boyle is a -10 and Vlasic -6.
Coachbp pointed out on C&B how bad the Wallin contract is. $2.5MM seems like an overpayment for a shut down D. He is currently -9. Coachpb posits that overpaying Wallin kept Wilson out of the Willie Mitchell sweepstakes.
With all the problems on D, the speculation on the internet/radio is that Wilson is looking for another forward.
This strikes me as somewhat odd, when healthy his team has more good forwards than most.
That being said the 3 worst +/- among forwards are:
Marleau -17
Thornton -12
Setegouchi -11
That's 14.1MM worth of slumps in Marleau and Thornton. ouch.
I don't know what you'd get for Smid. Their best D prospect seems to be Petrecki, but if he were ready I'm sure they'd have him up with the big team.
Do you ask for their 1st?
Oilers are listed at +210 tonight 2 way (regulation or overtime), and +310 in regulation.
I just can't ignore lines that far out of whack. I don't think they Oilers win tonight, but they don't lose this game enough to be that heavy of a dog against a struggling team without Pavelski and Couture.
Since the Oilers are 1-6 in OT/SO, might as well put a unit on them in regulation at +310.
GO OILERS
*clap,clap*
Heatley @ 7.5 million is such a brutal deal (that term is frightening). If he's not near the top of the Richard Trophy that contract is a bust as there is not really any other tools in his kit.
ReplyDeleteHeatley 44pg 37pts -1 Cap 7.5MM
Thornton 42gp 37pts -12 Cap 7.2MM
Marleau 44gp 32pts -17 Cap 6.9MM
Out of those 3 Heatley is the one I like the best right now.
I see Marleau did his usual "kick ass in the contract year and be a detriment to the team the next year schtick"
32pts in 44gp is nothing to sneeze at, but -17?? Lordy.
Souray would make a good Shark.
ReplyDeleteHeading to the Shark Tank tonight with the wife. Sister and brother-in-law are down from Edmonton and got them tickets too. Have great center ice seats a few rows above the penalty box.
ReplyDeleteThe four of us will be wearing copper (or orange) and blue.
Hunter1909: Good point. Have to confess to having totally wiped Souray from my memory as far as him still belonging to the organization goes. I really do wonder if they'd take him?! He couldn't be worse than any of their other d-men, despite his poor year in the AHL, although I don't know how much cap room the sharks have?
ReplyDeleteSouray spends the rest of the season in the AHL and they try to move him next summer.
ReplyDeletev3.0 was scared that JDD would get picked off of waivers.
No way this risk adverse GM puts 44 through recallable waivers hoping no one picks him off. Someone would.
Book it.
“We need this man in our lineup, it’s as simple at that"
ReplyDelete- Tom Renney
I had to swing by Home Hardware and pick up some expoxy to glue my Bullshit Filter back together.
DeBakey,
ReplyDeleteWho is Renney referring to?
Steve MacIntyre.
ReplyDeleteHemsky at the All-Star game is a good thing, long overdue, (and it might be educational and perhaps inspirational for him).
ReplyDeleteHopefully he comes back with the realization that he can/should be a top 20 forward instead of a top 50 forward. And that when you play with a high skill player, it is mutually beneficial to share the puck.
WG - didn't get to reply to you yesterday. I know that you trust those stats and what they in theory conclude, but was more interested in why you react the way you did when they seem to contradict some things. I was interested in your method of thinking about the game; the what vs. why issue in terms of on-ice play.
ReplyDeleteYou have to believe in the shooting percentage argument for what you're saying to work...I don't. Not for everyone anyway.
Also, I don't agree with Corsi showing accurately where the puck's going, but again, that's not the debate I was particularly interested in.
I agree with your general approach to team building, and also agree that we don't overspend on guys like Jones. In the past, with a wealthy owner, we'd have the luxury of saying "we like you, take a little more dough" but in capworld we don't. Just another reason I hate capworld.
I also agree with the availability of cheap replacement players. I'm not sure how many are 26 with an important (though marginally small amount of upside, but am mainly concerned with our management's inability and/or lack of desire to obtain them.
Appreciate the lengthy take, especially re: breaking players in on the fourth and the subsequent kid line discussion. People forget Hemsky too broke in on the 3/4 line.
re #33 - Is Renney just doing this to fluff one of his own players or does he actually believe it?
ReplyDeleteI'm really sick of having coaches that do nothing but blow smoke or make cliched comments. We haven't had a publicly thoughtful man at the helm for some time. Even if it was just one of the assistant coaches, I'd appreciate that.
//“We need this man in our lineup, it’s as simple at that"
ReplyDelete- Tom Renney//
Renney wants a goon on his team. That is a stylistic preference, but not ultimately critical to the rebuild one way or another.
I'm more in the Quinn-MacT camp, that the guy should be able to play a little.
Renney will take a 5-minute guy. Quinn and MacT want a 10-minute guy.
If Renney does a good job with Hall, Eberte, Gagner, Paarjarvi, and the rest of the elite prospects, i can endure his dissing of a good man in Stortini.
Hopefully, it means they will be looking for an upgrade to Smac during the summer.
LT
ReplyDeleteRead your report card over on ON. Excellent job (though I'd have gagner a little lower and Peckham a little higher)
I was just wondering, how do you grade out the coaching staff at this time? Upper management?
Twits..
ReplyDeleteAccording to Tom Renney, it's now an ankle issue for Gilbert Brule. Will miss at least the rest of the road trip.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's a new injury every week until deadline day.
#Oilers coach Renney said Cogliano has "dinged up hand", nothing serious, & thus stayed off the ice today
Cogliano maintenance day.hand issue.tough to grip the hockey stick.shoud be fine for SJ.Renney expecting to go with same lineup as vs. Dall
Eberle should be sometime soon after this trip..I think..as for Horcoff another week and a bit..help is on the way
#Oilers practice lines:
27-4-83
91-89-23
28-10-85
22(46)-16-33
Last few games I have been on the fence in regards to Hemsky. Then I remembered an article I had read in the summer about Dustin Brown by BoC.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.battleofcali.com/2010/5/27/1488209/season-review-dustin-brown
The essence of the article can be applied to Hemsky. I think since we have had him for so long that some of us have forgotten what he brings to the table or how important he is.
Dubnyk Starts, per Gregor.
ReplyDeleteOff-topic, but the latest from Mike Winters (NSFW for at least some of you - Bar Qu, for example).
ReplyDeleteAlso, any women on this blog?
ReplyDeleteWG where are you getting that line? At bodog they only have the Oilers at +195 to win.
ReplyDelete@ Woodguy
ReplyDeleteAgreed Heater is not their problem. Thornton's slump is a big one and Marleau's struggles are bigger. That is a pure waste of about 4 million of cap space that could have gone to a significant D man like Martin or Michalek
Winters is the man:)
ReplyDeleteWG: Yeah, I was thinking the same thing regarding tonight and the lines.
Oilers were awful in Van but played well in Dal after the three day layoff and they've had some decent one-goal and SO losses on the road so I'm not gonna pass up a +310 shot in regulation.
Plus, SJ's just 10-9-3 at home so, yeah, I'm gonna take a shot as well.
Also, if 46 read the Journal piece on 33 I dare say he physically shit his pants and mentally packed his bags.
ReplyDeleteStunning that Hemsky has never been to the All-Star Game. He's been Oilers' best or near-best player for a number of years now. Did he miss an ASG due to injury at some point (not meaning last year, but actually named to squad but then hurt and couldn't go)?
ReplyDeleteSteve MacIntyre.
ReplyDeleteQuit f%&@ing around, I want to know.
LMHF,
I appreciate your skepticism about Corsi, it certainly isn't then "end all be all" and needs to be taken in context. I actually think Fenwick is better.
I don't understand what you mean by:
You have to believe in the shooting percentage argument for what you're saying to work...I don't. Not for everyone anyway.
Historical shooting % are a very accessible stat, and 28 is not going to shoot 16.6% for the rest of his career.
Back to my "puck moving in the right direction" argument.
I used to make a significant amount of my income playing poker. It is essential that a winning poker player make the highest percentage play every time.
A significant percentage of the time, doing the right thing resulted in losing the hand due to variance. Having a 60% chance of winning a hand is a good bet, but you still lose 40% of the time.
It takes courage of conviction to stick with what you know is right because in the long term it will turn out in your favour.
Short term variance would make you question your sanity or playing ability because you could lose a lot "playing the right way"
I view most activities where there is a "win goal" in this light.
Do the right thing, ignore short term variance and in the end you will be a winner.
Corsi, Fenwick, Dennis' scoring chance data, and Jones' SH% are are indicating that he is a player that hurts a team's chances of winning, not helps it, and that his current goal total is short term variance.
Wolfie,
ReplyDeleteBet365 has that line.
Its now dropped to +200 ml, and +300 3 way.
Dennis: Did you notice how MacIntyre's mere presence had guys like Ott and Morrow minding their P's and Q's all night? Bopth guys kept their # of cheap shots down in the single digits, not doutbn because they were scarted shitless that they might skate by the Oiler bench and meet an unexpected clothesline or something.
ReplyDeleteFFS.
The play that 33-22-16 made on the Winning Goal Against was a complete clusterfuck. Lost offensive zone draw, jailbreak, let's all three of us take a run at guys in front of the Dallas bench, and then let's lollygag on the backcheck while their top line comes in 3-on-2 and sets up for the snipe. The whole sequence took 11 seconds.
So yeah, Renney, let's have a whole lot more of that.
@ Bruce
ReplyDeleteHemsky was injured last season and no all star game
The season earlier, Souray was on! He was having a terrific season scoring tons of goals and points from the Blue. So he was picked over Hemmer.
The season before that, Horc was on a crazy scoring pace and was scoring tons of goals and was picked over Hemsky.
The season before that, Ryan Smyth went. I have no clue about 05-06, my guess would be Pronger.
I think the reason Hemsky hasnt been to an ASG is that other have been having great seasons while he has been consistently good
Sum,
ReplyDelete83 was also invited to the young stars game when he was rook, but was injured.
WG,
ReplyDeletedid not know that so technically he has missed an ASG with an injury
Oilers haven't had a bona fide all star player since Chris Pronger.
ReplyDeleteHemsky's good, but he's no all star.
@ Hunter
ReplyDeleteI hope you know that 42 players will be playing in the all star games and more than 40% of them wont qualify as all star with your definition.
Do you think Toews is all star?
Sharp? Marc Staal? Elias? Backes?
Hemsky is good enough to be an All star and belongs in that game
I've said it many times but this team has a lot bigger problems then Steve Mac.
ReplyDeleteRitch Winter is a cool cat. I'd like to see him succeed Tambi as the GM. (And shoot Lowe)
Whitney would have been a good rep as all star if he hadn't of gotten hurt.
ReplyDeleteHe deserved it.
I wonder if Wilson wishes he had traded for Pronger back in '06
ReplyDeleteProbably every night.
As for SMac nice that he has some years in the NHL considering that he, like me, is not an NHL hockey player.
ReplyDeleteWhen he was here before guys were getting run all of the time and nothing has changed this time around. Oilers need more Peckham types (and I thought Vandermeer was supposed to be tough in this manner), guys who hurt the other team and who can actually, you know, play a regular shift.
@SumOil/Woodguy: Thanks for asnwering my Hemsky question. He woulda been the second choice in practically every one of those years. Glad he's finally getting a shot.
ReplyDeleteNo ASG in 05/06 due to those Olympics that we all try to forget.
ReplyDeleteWG: another thing in our favour is DD because I think he'd be putting up great numbers if he was even on a good team so if the Oilers play relatively well tonight we've got a shot at our money.
ReplyDeleteBruce: Renney's playing with house money when it comes to this decisions. The SOL at LA he got caught with the 4th line out for the GWG as well but he's always got an excuse at hand.
The whole thing with the love for 33 is perplexing at best. If a guy can't play - and Mac can't - then the only reason you have him in there is to hurt people and he seems like way too nice of a guy to do that.
I wonder if NHL teams could agree on the following proposal:
ReplyDeleteEach team will be allowed to have a 6th skater on the ice at all times. This skater will not have a stick and he will not be allowed to interfere with the play at all, lest he get a penalty. We'll call this player the goon.
The goon will be allowed to fight skaters from the other team, (Subject, of course, to a a five minute penalty. If he gets an instigator penalty, that penalty will be served concurrently by another player, resulting in a 5 on 4 (or 6 on 4 given the other goon remains on the ice.) And the goon will be allowed to fight the other goon too.
Anyways, I think this will pretty much solve the NHL's problems -I mean, we might not even need refs with this awesome proposal- and none of us will ever have to watch Steve Macyntire play hockey again.
Maybe Renney just likes high event players. MacIntyre was on the ice for less than a minute and a half last game and had a shot, a penalty, and an assist!
ReplyDeleteDont know why i chose to listen to Oilers Lunch today...apparently our team is in great shape (mr gm man), JF Jacques scores goals and Steve MacIntyre is key to Hall and Eberle becoming stars (mr coach man).
ReplyDeleteMy brain hurts again...
Who protects the wunderkinds from management?
ReplyDeleteI am pretty sure Doug MacLean is available¡
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeletehttp://tinyurl.com/4wx7v4z
ReplyDeleteIs this derived from your scoring chances, Dennis?
Despite Renney's great communication skills that make him seem like Flanders at times, there is no doubt he has a temper and is a competitor. He wants a guy that can punish people and I think his comments about SMac were as much a challenge to SMac as they were complementary.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I doubt that Renney's comments about Smac were in response to a question: "So Tom, whats the biggest priority for this team in the second half?"
It was likely more like "That game in Dallas really showed you need to find a way to keep SMac in the lineup, eh?" Is he going to say "no"?
Last week he was asked about Stortini and what a tough scratch he is. He has not had much trouble scratching him since.
Big game tonight between OTT and NYI. OTT looks to me to be the best bet to challenge the Oilers for 29th. Hopefully thats a 3 point game.
Ritch Winter is a cool cat. I'd like to see him succeed Tambi as the GM. (And shoot Lowe)
ReplyDeleteThen you know nothing about Winter. He makes Brian Burke look like a self depricating, non opinionated, happy guy.
Hahah anyone seen the Leaf's Eminem Youtube parody yet?
ReplyDeleteLove To Hear The Boo's
Is this Laforge?
ReplyDeleteI was surfing gorrilamask and ended up looking at a slide show from the Adult Film Convention that just happened in Vegas. (purely academic research I assure you)
I stumbled upon this pic (NSFW).
Is that Patrick Laforge enjoying the view?
slipper,
ReplyDeleteNot 100%, but those look like David Staples' numbers.
He has Cogs as being the most effective Oiler C this year.
His method also heavily penalizes Dmen.
Bruce would know for sure if its David's (or David, he posts here sometimes)
Thanks Steve and WG. Now I have another acronym to add to my growing compendium of meaningless collections of letters. ;-)
ReplyDeleteGlad to see DD starting tonight. I would actually love to see him start 2 of the next 3 from here to the end of the season, but then again Khabi is our MVP.
I seem to remember the Oil's last game against SJS to have gone pretty well last time, so I hope for a similarly close game.
Then you know nothing about Winter. He makes Brian Burke look like a self depricating, non opinionated, happy guy.
ReplyDeletePeople said the same thing about Gillis.
Maybe Renney just likes high event players. MacIntyre was on the ice for less than a minute and a half last game and had a shot, a penalty, and an assist!
ReplyDelete... and a minus.
People said the same thing about Gillis.
ReplyDeleteJust because one player agent has been succesful at not screwing up a franchise, doesn't mean Winter is qualified to be a GM.
He about as qualified as Bob Stauffer to be a GM.
"[Winters] is about as qualified as Bob Stauffer to be a GM."
ReplyDeleteexcept that he has experience negotiating contracts, has more inside knowledge about the game, is not a total yes man . . .
@Slipper/Woodguy: Yes those are David Staples' counts of "Individual Scoring Chances". The chances themselves are counted similarly to Dennis (last game Dennis had overall chances at 21-13 EDM and David at 20-13 EDM), but in David's system "credit" is assigned only to those players deemed to have been involved in the play. Which on average is about three players per scoring chances for and two per chance against, so it isn't zero-sum accounting. Moreover there are biases by position, with forwards, especially wingers, having more offensive and fewer defensive responsibilities, and ISC ratios reflect that.
ReplyDeleteWG, I would disagree with your characterization of Cogs as the "most effective centre" by this metric, the list Slipper linked is sorted by differential which in effect punishes Horcoff for missing games. But expressed as a ratio of ISC for:against, Horcoff is just under 3:1 and Cogs just under 2:1, which makes Horcoff the most effective by my definition of the word.
We publish the Oilers' individual scoring chances counts for every game in my detailed game reports over at Cult of Hockey. This project is very much a work in progress but in my view it provides an interesting take on things.
... and a minus.
ReplyDeleteHigh event!
@ WG
ReplyDeletedavid has Cogs as a -C. so he is not really saying he is great.
Well, as Lowetide basically said at ON today, Cogs is below the Mendoza line in terms of offensive production, so that doesn't bode well for his future here.
ReplyDeleteNever mind the Mendoza lines for faceoffs and defensive awareness.
ReplyDeleteBring us two out of three, at least. Hell, bring us one...
WG: Research, eh? Yeah, you and Pete Townsend;)
ReplyDelete13 looks to be no better than a 4th line centre and that's only if two of other three pivots are FO aces.
Speaking of Renney's recent quote about needing a guy like 33...
ReplyDeleteWhy hasn't Renney played 33 a la Quinn last season if he feels he's so important?
Give him a few shifts on a skill line and it's more like the Oilers are killing a penalty than giving a way goal in 11 seconds flat from the ozone. lol
Dennis: But if none of the other three are faceoff whizzes, that bumps Cogs up to #2 on the depth chart, eh?
ReplyDeleteBruce,
ReplyDeleteI apologize if I mis-characterized David's conclusions.
Dennis,
That girl is over 18, don't lump me in with a pedophile.
So is that Laforge or not?
The only thing I truly understand about Rich Winters is that Kevin Lowe can't stand him.
ReplyDeleteI can't stand Kevin Lowe in any top capacity for the Oilers, like many other fans.
Does it follow I would like Rich Winters?
Ducey seems to have his issues with him, but Ritch Winter's experiences with being a player agent make him far more qualified to be a GM then Lowe was and I'd rather have a guy from the business side of the game run my organization then a former hockey player.
ReplyDeleteWinter might be a Mike Barnett (Which is still preferable to Lowe/Tambi) or he could be the next Gillis.
totally off-topic, but I know a lot of you like both baseball and advanced stats. Here'e a wired article called 'A Sabermetrics Video Unlike Any You’ve Seen
ReplyDelete' http://www.wired.com/playbook/2011/01/sabermetrics-video-1/
@ WG: No worries. I'd just put more stock in ratios or per-game outputs than gross totals.
ReplyDeleteGillis had the Canucks handed to him, because Nonis was patient, and the owner wasn't.
ReplyDeleteGillis had the Hodgson misdiagnosis issue happen on his watch.
So he is able to attract free agents to a team Nonis built. That is pretty easy to do, once one has a competitive team, which Nonis left him.
The love for Gillis sounds just like the love this board had for a Sutter a couple of years ago.
The Canucks have had two underwhelming playoffs in a row. Let them win something before giving Mike Gillis the the "Sam Pollock trophy".
Just to clarify godot.
ReplyDeleteGillis has a runaway favorite to go to the SCF from the W. conf because he was lucky? (got players from a previous GM who couldn't convert underachiever to contender)
I have trouble arguing with results, since they are not a one-off season, but a pattern of building.
That's enough complimentary things about the Canucks *spits*.
What I find more baffling in WG's picture is that the girl seems to have had her yahoo patched over like a popped tire.
ReplyDeleteHas MacTavish been mentioned in this thread, yet? Well, he just dropped a great line on the TSN panel.
ReplyDeleteBetter.
MacTavish wrecked Foster and Fraser
ReplyDeleteThe Canucks are Nonis's team. Nonis' coach. Nonis's players.
ReplyDeleteGillis filled two holes with UFA's. Hamhuis and Malhotra.
But he missed on Malhotra the first time around and signed Wellwood instead.
Getting Hamhuis to Vancouver wasn't hard. That would have happened regardless of who was GM.
Meanwhile, the Ballard signing means he is going to lose Ehrhoff in the summer, and maybe Bieksa too.
Mike Gillis, the right place at the right time, much like Burke in Anaheim, where Niedermayer wanted to play with his brother, and he was gifted Pronger.
What did MacT say about Fraser and Foster?
ReplyDeleteMacT wrecked their offensive confidence.
ReplyDeleteI thought that was all in our pasts
He said something about the answer to Oilers powerplay woes being found in Fraser and Reddox. Mentioned it was similar to a situation he faced a few seasons back, the team was lost in the abyss...up until a young Toby Peterson came along.
ReplyDeleteThen Rob Schremp's name came up and Craig said what he lacks as a player is something he coined as "The MacMagic". Duthie went on to mention how Schremp's production has boosted NYI's own powerplay and that fancy baseball bat goal. To which MacTavish responded to by standing up from his chair, spitting his dentyne up into the air,bouncing it off the set lighting and catching it on theheel of his shoe, before planting the toe of his shoe into Duthie's eye socket and storming off set.
And for those who care, he was wearing loafers amd no socks.
slipper: You rock.
ReplyDeleteSlipper: that was good:) But what did MacT really say?;)
ReplyDeleteDennis: It was nothing. Mackenzie was on this long winded explanation of some fringe player on the Isle having a deathly allergy to dog and cat hair. When he was finished MacT turned and faced Bob and said "and that why they call him The Insider". Laughs ensued.
ReplyDeleteIt was Zenon Znopka (sp?). He is allergic to cats and dogs and so has a rabbit called hoppy or some such.
ReplyDeleteMcKenzie--usually a pretty good judge of a room--told this story (and added to it, apparently he confessed it to a minor league team one night and Bob had the poop) despite wide smiles and MacT's killer line at the end.
Good times.
btw, Mike Johnson isn't a dynamic television person. Bring back Peca.
Mike Johnson is miscast. He should be a tough minutes winger leading the Oilers to the promised land.
ReplyDeleteGodot
ReplyDeleteGillis was able to keep most/all of his roster. That is a HUGE accomplishment. And signed just about everyone. With the exception of the Ballard contract, he has not made any ridiculous signings. And just to get everyone going......Ballard has similar offensive numbers to Tom Gilbert and a similar contract.
One of the requirements of a good GM is to manage your cap--- Gillis has done a very good job of that
"Crash Davis" story with the Barons game tonight.
ReplyDeleteAll the video streams I found (veetle, atdhe) were choppy as heck.
ReplyDeleteI've never posted here before, but have been reading lowetide since 2006....I've caught the highs and lows of the oil since then. I've learned so much about hockey from everyone on these boards, thanks to all.
ReplyDeleteI don't catch as many oil games as I would like to. I live in Australia which makes it difficult! Living in Australia also means I don't get much Edmonton media....but today I'm listening online. Is Stauffer a dunce all the time? I swear he just tried to blame the Sharks lack of offence over the last few games on their anthemist! "Not enough jack in her voice, she needs some jack!"
Cogliano has been terribly ineffective in his own zone this shift. It's painful to watch.
ReplyDeleteLol that's pretty funny LT. How hard we were aching for Johnson or Peca a few years ago... Now we're finally seeing the future and MacT, Johnson, Peca are TSN veterans.
ReplyDeleteI've learned so much about hockey from everyone on these boards, thanks to all.
ReplyDeleteYou're welcome, though I shudder to think about what you've learned about hockey from me.
Also: Ritch Winter, not Rich Winters. You need to get at least one of the first and last names right.
Well done young Andrew.
ReplyDeleteAll this talk about Smac.. Well it's time for him to show his only trick. Fat head Doug Murray needs to answer to that cross check to Hemsky.
ReplyDeleteCogs... all he needed was a sore hand
Good cycle from 85 and nice finish by Cogs.
ReplyDeleteThis game is way more watchable than anything they've done in the last couple of weeks.
Woooooo!!!! It's Khabibulin's 65th Birthday!!! Let's get wasted!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteYou know what I hate most about NK?
He couldn't find himself a nice sensible Swedish wife.
Hemsky is a bad bad man.
ReplyDeletePetry has top 2 potential. Guy is calm with the puck, and has that play-slowing ability where it follows his pace.
ReplyDeleteMichael
ReplyDeleteI don't know about top 2, but I don't see any way they send him down. He looks like Gilbert with some Jam.
I'm willing to bet as soon as JVM is healthy, he's getting traded.
And Petry seems to help Smid look decent.
ReplyDeleteNice to see Petry on the PK. If he can be a 3 phase top 4D next year that's huge.
ReplyDelete6GP, 1A, -1, 6SOG, 0 PIM, 19:39 / Gm.
Couldn't ask for much more and I'm not sure how he gets sent down if he continues like this.
DD looks on again. He deserves every other start, but I'd settle for every 3rd game. If he doesn't end up with 30 starts by the end of the year I'll consider this Renney's biggest screw up of the season.
itsaleaf
ReplyDeleteYeah, not anytime in the short-term... but in 3 years after being broken in properly.
Steve interview!
NK - MVP! Perfect, except for last couple
Fuck he reminds of of that skit on SNL where that chick put her hands in her armpits and smells them afterwards
Man this guy's scouting reports are awesome. Can you talk in crayon?
ST gets an F for not mentioning the PK as a disappointment in the 1st 3rd of the season.
ReplyDeleteEverything is super according to our GM.
ReplyDeleteI'm placated.
I liked how Tambo called 10 our best dman:)
ReplyDeleteThe only positive I can take out of this is both tonight and on an interview he did on the official site he was non-plussed about the bottom six and, yeah, I know everyone can see it but I'm not so sure he sees it all the time;)
The biggest negative was the praise for 13.
And I was stunned he didn't give more love to DD.
Speaking of the kid, what I like about him is he makes all these big saves in tight and it doesn't look flukey. I haven't tried to pick apart his game but the only thing not to like about his period was when he made that big save early on Joe T he was too far right in his net.
Chances 6-7 with the Oilers breaking down and allowed some five bell opps early on but then runing the last 12 min of the frame.
When Horcoff, Eberle and Whitney get healthy, I'm not sure they will make the lottery
ReplyDeleteWell, Gagner found his hands there! Nifty move
ReplyDeleteNow it would be nice to see a productive powerplay
What a shift by Hall. His board work and battle level for the puck is Crosby like.
ReplyDeleteAnd no I'm not saying he's Crosby.
It will be interesting what they do in regards to roster moves when Horcoff and Eberle get healthy again. Magnus seems to have found his game since he's been paired with Omark and Reddox has been the player most of us thought he would be out of training camp. You would think that JFJ and Mac would be going down to OKC but I don't think that will be happening.
ReplyDeletepboy
ReplyDeleteIt will be a giant tell if management is tanking if they think JFJ deserves to stay over Reddox.
I really think that you're gonna see some trades pretty quickly.
They can't get anything for Jacques, but can send him down.
ReplyDeleteWe've been waiting for an in season trade (non-deadline) since 06. I wouldn't bet on it.
ReplyDeleteHall - Goal
That's gotta be a goal.
ReplyDeleteRQ's right. Hemsky IS difficult to play with.
ReplyDeleteHall's shot is going to get better too, ya know. That's what is so fucking awesome.
ReplyDeleteLet's face it, if Steve Tambelline does absolutely anything at this point, which could concievably bolster the chances of the oilers finishing closer to 26th rather than 30th, then it would not only cinch the fact that this team is controlled by monkeys, but also be complete disregard and lack of intelligence for the future interests of the Edmonton oilers. For reals.
ReplyDeleteBoy it sure looks like Hall might be able to handle playing Center.
ReplyDeleteI know it's only been a couple of games, but the Kid's Hockey IQ is off the charts.
It's a goal because Hall says so!
ReplyDeleteWell so far this is the second good effort in a row. The Dallas game was spotty except for one period, but they did outchance overall.
ReplyDeleteThe dreaded 3-0 lead...
ReplyDeletePeople should be more conncerned that Hemsky's going to be even more difficult to play against.
ReplyDeleteLT
ReplyDeleteI wasn't implying that JFJ was tradeable. I think Fraser, Brule, Foster and JVM all have one foot out the door.
Bah. I am starting to feel badly for Fraser at this point. He's a marginal NHL player at best, but when he's essentially only playing 6 or 7 minutes a game it's hard to expect that he'll develop or show well.
ReplyDeleteThere are signs that Hall may be able to decipher the "enigma". The cipher might not be too tricky for him.
ReplyDeleteDamn prodigy may make me have to eat crow! -).
Also, if Khabibulin is the team MVP then Dubnyk is surely the team goat. He's single-handedly tanking the tank!
ReplyDeleteBoy, if Hall can develop into a "#1 C", that would help to solve a bunch of problems. And if they could still land a C like Couturier, they could have good C depth in terms of size pretty quickly, with Hall and Horcoff both 6'1" and Couturier 6'4" - move Gagner to RW.
ReplyDeleteLT, I thought you were crazy when you mentioned SJ may miss the 2nd season about a month ago.
ReplyDeleteNow, not so crazy. They're in trouble. Boyle needs alot of help back there.
Time for Wilson to earn his paycheck or he'll be sitting next to MacT on the panel. Too bad ST can't help him out for a hefty price.
Wow - DD - best I've seen an Oiler Goalie in a while.
Ah I love when Penner does interviews
ReplyDeleteItsaleaf
ReplyDeleteWhen Horcoff and Eberle get back we will be better up front but we are a lock for the lottery
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteTyler 0-0-0 -2 17:05
ReplyDeleteTaylor 1-1-2 +2 10:31
Just saying...
BTW, I don't want to sound like I think size is THE crucial factor for C's, but probably better to have it than not.
ReplyDeleteDoes Reddox get the left wing gig with Horcoff and Eberle?
ReplyDeleteIs that a toupee Wilson wears or what? It really looks like one and frankly, I hope it is.
ReplyDeleteNo wonder Dubbie's been riding pine...
ReplyDeleteBad call on Omark's hit on McGuinn...
Any thoughts on what Toonces does when Brule/Eberle/Horcov return?
Ricci still looks like an addict.
ReplyDeleteI'd bet that Tambo does as close to nothing as possible when the guys get healthy.
More injuries will happen too.
Jay
ReplyDeleteOmark put his stick up in McGinn's facemask. Not sure how that's a bad call.
It kind of looked like Omark poked him in the neck with his stick inadvertently.
ReplyDeleteDubnyk looking very good.
Hahah Deano,
ReplyDeleteThat's funny but true. I'm wondering what injury Brule will have next to take him to the trade deadline?
Tambo loves doing nothing/evaluating about as much as he loathes making decisions.
oh, I was a bit distracted, the announcer initially thought the call was for the hit from behind/hip check from behind.
ReplyDeleteGodot...
ReplyDeleteWhen you label a player selfish--a player who has a far greater number of assists than goals, and is known as too much of a pass-first guy--when you call THAT guy selfish, well you're just asking for Crow l'Orange to be served.
I have never described Hemsky as selfish. I have never used that word with regards to Hemsky. Never.
ReplyDeleteYou are mischaracterizing and misinterpreting my critique of Hemsky.
Anybody listening to Remmenda's call on this one? Curious as to his thoughts. He's quite the homer and has been in the dumps lately given the Sharks recent record.
ReplyDeleteI hope the Sharks score one so that Penner's goal will retroactively become a big one - that should shove it up Brownlee's backside.
ReplyDeleteHow does Seguin end up -2 when his team scores 7 goals?
ReplyDeletePretty nice dive by 91
Penner has had a strong game, but he probably should have made some different choices on that PKGA. He probably should have passed with the goalie out that far and Cogs selling out so hard. And then he probably should have taken the line change to get someone on earlier.
ReplyDeleteYou are mischaracterizing and misinterpreting my critique of Hemsky.
ReplyDeleteI can't imagine anyone getting confused with all those mismatched pegs flying around.
They finally go to the back door play 5-on-3 and immediately the chances rain down. What a shocker (whistle and look away).
ReplyDeleteTook em long enough to figure that out...
Penner has had a strong game, but he probably should have made some different choices on that PKGA. He probably should have passed with the goalie out that far and Cogs selling out so hard. And then he probably should have taken the line change to get someone on earlier.
ReplyDeleteStill: turns out that he scored a Big Goal in the second. Clutch.
Unless the Sharks score again. Then he's just padding his statistics with meaningless goals, like always.
RQ - I like Penner trying to win it there. Better chance with the puck on his stick. The fact that Smid over-chased and Petry didn't maintain his angle were why that ended up in the net. They were in good position and blew it.
ReplyDeleteLinus rules.
Hemsky has fucking got it tonight.
ReplyDeleteAlso - Must be hard keeping up with a guy who's got 3 assists. Tough playing with a guy like that...has anyone mentioned the inherent difficulty of playing with Hemsky? I hadn't noticed but yeah, it's hard to keep up with a guy who can make you look either stupid for not keeping up or like a superstar because of the wide open nets you're staring at.
ReplyDeleteTook em long enough to figure that out...
ReplyDeleteThe Oilers' fascination with the point shot is inexplicable. They got drunk on it in 05/06 and have been fixated ever since. The personnel changes, the coaching changes, it doesn't matter - bombs away.
I really don't understand Renney's thought process regarding Macintyre.
ReplyDeleteIf you aren't gonna play him up three goals with 9 minutes to go, when DO you play him? He serves ZERO purpose.
These refs just hate the Oilers. they have it in for us.
ReplyDeleteFun fact: Colin Fraser is only the third worst forward on the roster. He's a heartbeat away from our third line.
ReplyDeleteAnybody listening to Remmenda's call on this one?
ReplyDeleteMight be out-doing Sportsnet Ontario's calling of the LEaf games in the Homer category. I'd be embarrassed to be associated with that guy... the squeaky mocking voices when he was complaining about 91's dive were the kind of thing I thought people left behind in junior high. He just ends up coming across as misinformed, unknowledgeable, and a very sore loser.
Kind of reminds me of the fanbase for San Jose 2.0 in Vancouver.
RQ - I like Penner trying to win it there. Better chance with the puck on his stick.
ReplyDeleteHe had nothing to shoot at there.
The fact that Smid over-chased and Petry didn't maintain his angle were why that ended up in the net. They were in good position and blew it.
Nah, they were already fucked anyway. You can't hope for dmen to pull those out very often especially against that opposition.
If our coaches even gave a thought to having a PP unit, the group right now would easily be: Penner-Hall-Omark with Hemsky and Gilbert running the point.
ReplyDeleteLinus moves and passes on the powerplay beautifully. So many chances off that stick.
Penner's a smart player though. I bet if he had another crack at the same play, he'd try something different.
ReplyDeleteAny thoughts on what Toonces does when Brule/Eberle/Horcov return?
ReplyDeleteProbably the wrong thing.
He's like the Costanza of the NHL.
Whatever his instincts tell him to do, he should do the opposite.
Ill give JFJ credit. He just landed three consecutive checks.
ReplyDeleteOmark takes his third minor.
ReplyDeleteYah, figured as much. It's always about the Sharks with him. On radio it's tough to find out who's the opposition cause he never mentions them.
ReplyDeleteSqueeky voice, LOL. Unfortunatley reminds me of his HNIC stint.
I don't know why i listen to his radio show occassionally. Opinionated is an understatment and Jumbo Joe is a god.
Ill give JFJ credit. He just landed three consecutive checks.
ReplyDeleteYea, he's a THREAT! (As Louie would say)
Omark with the Ethan Moreau hat trick.
ReplyDeleteThis is when you get the puck on a rush and pass back to Dubnyk. They're really pulling the goalie down 3? Embarrass them!!!
ReplyDeleteGod this SJ announcing team is annoying. Never thought I'd miss Pierre Macguire.
ReplyDeleteWait did what I say just make sense?
I want to ask these two clowns if they know who wrote Iliad and the Odyssey.
ReplyDeleteCoach: More sense than their colour guy for most of the night.
ReplyDeleteThe rule is stupid because it empeached a Sharks goal!
ReplyDeleteFour assists.
ReplyDeleteEat it critics.
SJS scored that to prove how fat 27 is.
ReplyDeleteBrownlee and Spector are right.
No jam, clutch, or grit with the pillowy soft 27.
Penner looked dogged after that short handed chance.
ReplyDeleteYup, that Hemsky is one selfish player.
ReplyDeleteI don't mind 4-10-89 down the middle as long as 4 can win draws and the 4th pivot is a faceoff and PK ace.
ReplyDeleteSo where do I vote for Hemsky to go to the All-Star Game.
ReplyDeleteDennis: Then you mind. LoL
ReplyDeleteI missed every bet tonight from -150 to +110.
ReplyDeleteExcept a +310 bet.
Crazy.
I enjoyed the whole game.
ReplyDeleteIts been a while.
Dubnyk 4 wins. 3 losses.
ReplyDeletebenched next game.
godot said...
ReplyDeleteAnd that when you play with a high skill player, it is mutually beneficial to share the puck.
As you can see, I did not mischaracterize your words. While I did not quote you directly, selfish is an accurate summation of not sharing the puck.
People who share the puck have a lot of assists, and are typified as pass-first. Tonight being a great example.
Gilbert and Peckham with nice games. At some point we're going to have to start thinking about this Petry guy sticking as well. It's very early, but damn. Some very fine stickwork from him.
ReplyDeleteI must say... Nice choice of topic for the post today LT.
ReplyDeleteCC, that would be Drew Remmenda.
ReplyDeleteFun game. 1st line was a joy to watch. I'd like to see them get most of the 4th line's minutes.
Hemsky - 16:24
Hall - 17:21
Penner - 19:12
Hemsky 4A, +4. He's back.
DD great again. Man I love his calm style back there.
So much for the "hemsky being hard to play with" theory.
ReplyDeleteT. Hall 2-1-3 +3.
Square Peg 0-4-4 +4.
Enough said...
Last 11 games:
ReplyDeleteKhabby 0-7-0
Doobie 2-0-2
And V3.0 can't stop talking about what Khabby means to the team.
Ribs,
ReplyDeleteAgreed. Peckham and Gilbert had great games.
and only 2 games together... just sayin
ReplyDeletehttp://www.mc79hockey.com/?p=3556#comment-307191
ReplyDelete//selfish is an accurate summation of not sharing the puck.//
ReplyDeleteNo it isn't. I have never criticized Hemsky's intent or character. I have been clear that my criticism is a criticism of style, not of intent or mental state.
Round peg, square peg. Different styles, and whether the style will mesh with the young skill players on the team going forward.
Wow, a win over the Sharks at the tank, feels great doesn't it?
ReplyDeleteI really hate the Sharks... that was just awesome. Kinda like wandering in the desert and seeing an oasis.
@Woodguy, Toonces is preying he doesn't have to make a decision. Injuries could save the day for him as Deano noted.
Great game by Doobie, too bad his tending performance is contrary to management's agenda.
too bad cogs can't win a faceoff. something like 6 wins, 17 losses on the dot. boy, add horcoff and suddenly our centres look solid if Hall keeps this up. So when he and eberle come back do you run
ReplyDelete27-4-83
28-10-14
91-89-23
16-13-85
SK Fan-Is that who that was? Doesn't he do games for HNIC?
ReplyDeleteSpOiler: I cringe at the thought of wading into this little tiff, but I feel obligated to point out that "pass-first" and "selfish are not necessarily mutually exclusive and in the case of Hemsky, were both probably pretty accurate for a long time, although his play has evolved considerably in that area over the fast few seasons.
ReplyDelete"Pass first" means a player is more likely to pass the puck than to take a shot on goal, not that he passes as soon as the puck is on his stick.
However, 83 has been notorious for hanging onto the puck far too long and neither passing nor shooting until it's almost too late. Hanging onto the puck too long and making to many moves can be selfish play regardless of what he does after.
He has also had a tendancy to put linemates offside by getting too fancy coming across the blueline instead of dumping it in, making an early pass, continuing forward, or (seemingly) communicating with his linemates.
Again, I've warmed (slowly) to Hemsky in the past two seasons because he's improved enormously in these areas. But the criticisms are what they are.
To be fair I think the 27-83 combo have always been pretty much gold. 4's a kid who's ultra-talented but who's scuffled for awhile now so business is probably about to pick up for him now for the next 10 games or so.
ReplyDeleteI'm just wondering who plays on the left side with 10-14 because it only makes sense to pair them when they return.