He became the first OHL defenseman to score 100 points in a season, thus breaking Bobby Orr's record. The chant "Potvin Sucks" comes from the February 25, 1979 game at Madison Square Garden in which he broke Ulf Nilsson's ankle. Fred Shero got the Rangers to the SCF's that season, a healthy Nilsson might have made a difference.
The NY Islanders drafted Potvin 1st overall in 1973. He was an obvious top pick (Sam Pollock kept offering more during a pre-draft walk around the Mount Royal Hotel with Isles GM Bill Torrey) and delivered quality throughout his HOF career.
The NY Islanders and Edmonton Oilers are in a race for 29th overall tonight. The winner gets two points, the loser gets the #2 overall pick and a better chance to win the lottery.
--
I'm reading in a places that the performanes of Couturier and Larsson were disappointing at the WJ's. I think we need to suss things out a little in our minds. Did Couturier have a lot of powerplay opportunity? Was this Canadian team a 5x5 monster (whammo!!!) as we've seen in previous seasons? The better plan (imo) is to see how he dominates the QMJHL. Gabe Desjardins NHLE's have him doing fine there (82gp, 12-25-37) is on par with a player like Jeff Skinner (19-16-35) and when you add Couturier's physical presence then we're talking about a damn good prospect.
So too with Larsson. His offense (NHLE: 82gp, 2-16-18) added to the secondary numbers we know (less than 18 minutes a night, he's +14 which is the best number on the team) suggest he isn't getting a lot of PP time but doing well at EVs. I'd suggest that David Rundblad is the PP QB on Skelleftea this season.
My point is that we need to wait a little longer and see how this thing turns out. Taylor Hall had a more prominent role on a better offensive team a year ago (compared to Couturier) and Larsson is a guy whose value isn't going to measured strictly by boxcars.
We need to look closer.
so now that the WJC is over, any thoughts on the oiler prospects in the tourney LT? Seem,s like Lander and Hamilton look like solid two way players with some grit (exactly what we lack right now). I expect Hamilton in the minors or junior next year and Lander maybe as our 4th line (or third based on play). Might be an interesting grouping with Lander between Hamilton and MPS going forward, with Lander in the "Horcoff" role of the defensive presence between young players.
ReplyDeleteBye bye Brule and Cogs. Seems like the youth may be passing them, especially based on what the team needs (solid two way guys with some size, not one way dumb hockey players with no size). But will management be smart enough to move the two of them while they still hold some semblance of value?
I think Larsson had a fine performance all things considered. There are suggestions he played injured throughout the tournament, and I think he showed some excellent offensive ability when given the opportunity.
ReplyDeleteReports from fans of Larsson's SEL team suggest that Rundblad is getting the first unit PP time while Larsson is on the second unit. His low PP scoring might be attributable to the struggles of the second unit forwards, who have been struggling offensively all season.
Couturier, on the other hand, did have a disappointing tournament I think. Not particularly because he didn't score much, but because he generally seemed slow and ineffectual offensively. It will be interesting to see how his skating affects his development as a pro.
At this point the parity of this draft's top 4 prospects is just another reason to lose interest in following the team too closely this year. They all seem to have issues and there is no clear top pick. Before the tournament I preferred Larsson with the other three equal and I still hold that view.
The Couturier Bowl!
ReplyDeleteGo Oilers.
Kind of funny how McGuire called out Gord Miller during the bronze game for openly pushing for the Oil to draft Landeskog.
ReplyDeleteMiller was actually a little flustered I thought. And here I thought McGuire could only fluster guys by hitting on them.
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ReplyDeleteI think your right LT when you say we need to look closer. It comes down to intangibles. But the performances weren't strong either - another reason why I cant cheer for losses anymore.
ReplyDeleteThe new coach of the NYI looks like he is doing a good job. He is 8-9-1 or something like that.
ReplyDeleteRobbie "Shine Box" Schremp has scored on 19% of his shots. Man, is he talented. The Oilers don't stand a chance against him in his white go-go skates.
I'd be happy with Couturier or Landeskog so a 29th place finish would be fine. Will kind of be cheering for the NYI to win a close one in regulation.
A look at Edmonton's schedule for January leads me to believe that the Oilers are in for an extended losing streak.
I am attending the Preds game on the 23rd, so that's a guaranteed loss.
ReplyDeletePrediction:
ReplyDeleteTie Game goes to shoot out. The Hockey Jesus beats us with the lacrosse move.
Isn't Landeskog a winger? That cupboard is full.
ReplyDeleteAs for Couturier, he reminded me more of Chris Gratton than anyone.
As great as Landeskog looks, I have to say I'd be surprised and disappointed if management picks him... We've known for YEARS that our greatest needs are a big 1st line centre and/or a stud defenceman, not another winger.
ReplyDeleteAs has been pointed out by various writers, including LT, the Oilers do also need a defensive minded RH center with FO ability, but only as a stop-gap until one of the young guys (Pitlick, Lander, VV) can fill that role.
You could argue that Horc and Gagner are good enough, to be our top two centres, but Gags needs to learn how to take FOs. If you believe that, then you draft Larsson.
Or, you believe that our defence is (or will be) fine - Whitney proved to be an almost All-Star calibre player this season, Gilbert is very good (no matter what some say) when he's on form, Peckham has opened some eyes this season with some great physical play and solid defence along with a little offence, Smid has talent although is inconsistent and needs a strong partner to really shine (a la Visnovsky last season), and we have Petry, Plante and Marincin in the system, all of whom are potentially very good. If you believe this, you probably draft Couturier. Or RNH, but this team doesn't want to get any smaller.
Me? I kinda believe both, and so can't decide. Larsson would probably be my pick but then D-men take a lot longer to develop so I'd be tempted to trade for a young stud D, just so they're that little bit further along the line. The ONLY thing that worries me about Couturier is his skating, but from what i've heard its not that its bad, he's just not blindingly fast, which probably doesn't matter on our team as the rest of our guys are so fast.
commonfan - Pierre and Miller got in a few heated arguments this WJC. It was pretty funny, really. I hope they keep it up as both usually have interesting points.
ReplyDeleteHah, Pierre almost exploded when Miller was arguing about that Sweden icing call.
Couturier and Larsson both seemed to have okay performances. What was underwhelming was their overall skill levels.
Couturier is a very smart player who knows where to go to get the puck, but looked awfully slow many times. He uses his size enough, but the speed issue could hurt him big time in the NHL. He won't be able to get to those spots that he enjoys so much now if he can't pick it up. That's not to say that he can't work on his skating and get better. It just adds risk to picking him is all.
Larsson looked pretty danged good offensively. He made some great plays throughout the tournament and his skating is not an issue. He can shoot the puck. Where I found him lacking was in the physicality department. He uses his reach and some nifty stickwork to get the puck away from people most of the time and was a bit overwhlemed by guys that could shield the puck from him. It's hard to say how this will transfer into the NHL game. Some players can get away with not being physical and others can not. Again, things that can be worked on and he can get better at, but still not something you'd hope to see from a potential #1 pick.
...Hoping for a Schremp vs. Omark shootout tonight.
ReplyDeleteLarsson's stock actually went up for me personally this tournament. What I saw was quality.
ReplyDeleteCouturier was more of a confirmation of his deficiencies... skating & finish.
Sure the WJCs is a tournament of mostly 19yos, but I do expect the projected first pick overall to be one of the better skaters on his team. Couturier was close to being the worst.
I'll be at the preds game too Grant, so we can suffer together.
ReplyDeleteI was over at the Oilers playoff chances site the other day, and was looking at exactly how bad things were for the Oil.
Right now, they're playing at about .8 ppg, and if they continue at the same pace, they are guaranteed (99%) to be the last place team in the west, and probably the 28th place team.
Their .8 ppg rate includes about 20 games when the full team was healthy, so presumably with the personnel lost to injury, we can expect their performance over the next month+ to be somewhat worse than that. All things being equal, it looks like bad odds on the lottery.
I really, REALLLLLY hope that the Oilers don't rush lander, Hamilton, and others into the NHL. Peckham seems to have really benefited from the slower development path, and I expect that those two especially would benefit from some seasoning in the AHL. Todd Nelson seems to be doing a solid job with the kids so far in the A, and I want to see more players down there learning from him how to play and learning from the team how to win.
Best way to help the Oilers both now and in the future is to stop the cogliano experiments, dump the bottom half of our lineup (Possibly keeping Storts & Smid) and bring in some actual NHL Players on one year deals, until their replacements are ready.
Huh... you know... somehow this looks almost identical to the to do list from last summer... It's almost like the Oilers saw what needed to be done, and did it all WRONG.
I really like Landeskog A LOT. but not enough to root for him over SC or AL.
ReplyDeleteNumerous Floppings for Nugent-Hopkins.
ReplyDeleteTencer has Dubnyk in net and Foster as a healthy scratch tonight.
ReplyDeleteTheir .8 ppg rate includes about 20 games when the full team was healthy, so presumably with the personnel lost to injury, we can expect their performance over the next month+ to be somewhat worse than that. All things being equal, it looks like bad odds on the lottery.
ReplyDeleteSince the Dec 21st they have 2 points in 7 games.
That's a .143 point % rate.
I don't expect them to continue on that horrid pace, but the rest of January looks like a mixed bag.
The January opponents who are not in a playoff spot are: NYI, ANA, MIN, and PHX.
The playoff teams that they play are DAL (3 times), VAN, SJS, LAK, NSH.
I think them coming out of the next 11 games with 6 points is about right.
I have that nasty head cold, so I gave away my tickets.
ReplyDeleteDammit, wanted to throw a tin of shoeshine at Banana Hammock Hockey Jesus.
Actually he's doing ok on the Island.
Here's a stat for everyone:
Rob Schremp leads all Islander forwards in 5v5 GFON/60 with 2.43
Tavares is 7th with 2.06.
Perhaps Robbie isn't a 5v4 specialist after all?
His +/-/60 among Islander forwards is 5v5 is 12/15 -1.21
Tavares is -1.46 14/15.
Since I'm looking at scoring here are the scoring QC/QT for both.
Shremp QC 7/15
Tavares QC 2/15
Shremp QT 15/15
Tavares QT 8/15
For dragging around the dregs and playing middling comp, I think Robbie's results are decent.
Good for him.
Last stat:
RelCor
Tavares +6.9 6/15
Shremp +3.5 7/15
Looks like snow got a reasonably good player for free.
Gee, if Robbie can learn to back check he might have a job in the NHL for 10 years.
Tencer has Dubnyk in net and Foster as a healthy scratch tonight.
ReplyDeleteI guess that means Gilbert's fine. I could get behind Foster as a healthy scratch if it didn't mean all of Strudwick, Vandermeer, and Petry would be in the lineup. On the other hand, I could get behind Vandermeer as a healthy scratch if it didn't mean that all of Strudwick, Foster, and Petry would be the in lineup. So it goes.
Of our three best defensemen, one of them is a rookie in all but name, and another is Ladislav Smid.
I was listening to the team 1260 yesterday--first time ever thanks to LT at Oil Nation.
ReplyDeleteStauffer was interviewing KLOWE who was salivating over the thought of Lander slotting into the 3C position on the Oilers.
Weren't people criticizing Peckham's lack of progress just this spring and openly calling for him to be sent down after TC in favour of keeping Belle, waivers be damned?
ReplyDeleteRealy, one could argue that finally getting an extended shot at the bigs (whether he deserved it or not) has actually been a bigger factor in his improvement than that slow developmental path that brought him to the brink of getting waived.
Weren't people criticizing Peckham's lack of progress just this spring and openly calling for him to be sent down after TC in favour of keeping Belle, waivers be damned?
ReplyDeleteI don't remember that, but could be. I do know that when people were calling for Belle to be kept up after his first callup, it was to be at Strudwick's expense, not Peckham's.
tough and mean
ReplyDeleteJust ask his wife. Rimshot! (This is an unconfirmed rumor.)
The winner gets two points, the loser gets...
...more balls when the league hands them out.
Go Islanders!!!
ReplyDeletego rookies
ReplyDeleteI think Lander likely gets a real long look at camp next year and is likely to be a center on the Oilers next season.
ReplyDeletePitlick, Hamilton, and Marincin are all eligible to play in Oklahoma next season and that's where they will likely be.
It was only one game but I got to see RNH last weekend and I can what MBS is talking about when he sees Joe Sakic in him.
Here is a link to a fight he got into with Lucas Sutter in that game. (He didn't play another shift after this I believe)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYysYnRE_lA&feature=player_embedded
And for giggles. Here was Red Deer's big response to that fight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XsOcc5YOjg&feature=player_embedded
As for Gord and Pierre's banter. Pierre was awfully catty it's almost like the guy is hazed by the other TSN staff when the camera isn't on because my goodness he likes to jump on other guys when he thinks they're wrong.
(As a Smarmy prick I can pick up on these things. ;)
Pitlick, Hamilton, and Marincin are also eligible for the Dub next year, and that's where this same management kept Eberle. Granted those are three big dudes compared to 14.
ReplyDeleteWill never forget the reunion the Isles had for their first cup and Potvin tells the fans that he was always hearing "Potvin's Cups" (not sucks). Guy was a stud.
ReplyDeleteWould like to see us play 3 periods for once. Would hate to lose this game and DD deserves some breaks.
But a loss and you have to think it's down to us and NJ for the top pick and I can live with that.
I say Omark with the SO winner and DD stumps Schremp.
The new coach of the NYI looks like he is doing a good job. He is 8-9-1 or something like that.
ReplyDeleteThe Isles have been streaky all year: 4-1-2 to start, lost fourteen in a row (0-11-3), won one, lost six (all regulation), then 7-1-1 the last nine. What are the real Islanders? Did changing the coaches change a damned thing, given the copious injuries and what-not?
Hoping for a Schremp vs. Omark shootout tonight.
Indeed. YouTube will assplode if so.
@Smarmy: So if I'm seeing this correctly, RNH got into a fight, couldn't land a punch, then Red Deer responds by jumping one of Saskatoon's best players. Nice.
Yeah, based on Vish's comments on Stauffer's show yesterday I think he has a spot on the roster to lose.
ReplyDeleteV3.0 (probably 4.0 when he does it) has to move 13 before TC next year.
If he can get MBS a mid 2nd that's a win.
3.0 held out for a 1st for 13 last year, doubt he does that again.
Tencer...
ReplyDeleteJordan Eberle had an emergency appendectomy last night...not a major setback.
I'm thinking Edmonton can lose to enough Western Conference teams that a good shitkicking of the Isles would be the best way to go tonight. HJ's for everyone!
ReplyDeleteAs for the WJHC with respect to kids, age is a huge factor and I think we all know that. It's also such a small sample size and there are countries of such varying ability that comparing boxcars from one year to the next is a bit ridiculous.
That said, I'm comfortable saying that either a) Couturier is a tier below Hall, Stamkos, Duchene, and possibly Tavares or b) He's a longer term project. Not an awfully damning statement but since I chimed in harshly about SC yesterday I thought I should clarify where I stand. As for Larsson, honestly he looked great to me but I'm no scout and sincerely doubt I have any ability to project a player based on a two game look.
Jordan Eberle had an emergency appendectomy last night...not a major setback.
ReplyDeleteAww crap. We all know that the appendix is what makes a person clutch.
Aww crap. We all know that the appendix is what makes a person clutch.
ReplyDelete"LOL", as I believe the kids say.
Kris,
ReplyDeleteEveryone knows that surgery releases all the clutch humors.
Trade him now!!!!
Sean said...
ReplyDeleteI think your right LT when you say we need to look closer. It comes down to intangibles.
Oh yeah. LT definitely meant intangibles.
Woodguy said...
Actually he's doing ok on the Island.
Almost every one of those stats is percentage driven though. Maybe he shoots like Lemieux at ES. Maybe not.
Almost every one of those stats is percentage driven though. Maybe he shoots like Lemieux at ES. Maybe not.
ReplyDeleteHis PDO's 970; that doesn't support the conclusion that his GFON and GAON are percentage-driven. His personal goal totals may well be, but that's not what Woodguy was citing.
And of course there's the positive RELCORSI.
I haven't suddenly become a Schremp truther, and waiving him was just fine with me, but it looks like he is in fact good enough to take a regular ES shift on one of the worst teams in the league.
Pitlick, Hamilton, and Marincin are also eligible for the Dub next year, and that's where this same management kept Eberle. Granted those are three big dudes compared to 14.
ReplyDeleteThe difference being that Eberle was not eligible for the AHL last year. All these guys will be next season.
@Smarmy: So if I'm seeing this correctly, RNH got into a fight, couldn't land a punch, then Red Deer responds by jumping one of Saskatoon's best players. Nice.
Pretty much. Shows he has a bit of moxy as Sutter is a pretty tough kid. That Cowan cheap shot handed the Blades a couple PP goals and iced the game. Red Deer is funny that way.
RQ,
ReplyDeleteYeah, he's riding a 19% SH and that won't last, he certainly isn't in the top 6 for forwards on that team when they're healthy, but its fun to see.
His RELCOR is a good indicator that he's not getting killed though.
His RELCOR QC is 8/15
His RELCOR QT is 7/15
His RELCOR is positive and 7/15
I think that's pretty good for a free player.
I am against RNH. I dont like the fact that most of his proudction comes on the PP.
ReplyDeleteHere's my Traktor-style argument. (By being brief it makes me seem awesome, because longer explanations suck.)
ReplyDeleteSchremp?
Ryan Potulny: 64gp 15g 17a 32pts
SumOil, remember when PP production was a reason why many people liked Rob Schremp?
ReplyDeleteThat said, Schremp could turn into a decent PP option who can play some easier minutes well.
ReplyDeleteScary player to sign to any kind of deal worth anything, though.
Leave Traktor alone!
ReplyDeleteMacTavish didn't let Schremp's offensive skills blossom.
They withered in the fields.
Lol i actually dont...I started following hockey in the 06-07 season lol!
ReplyDeleteWG: any other Vish highlights from Glenn Beck's program?;)
ReplyDeleteI'm looking forward to the 23-85-91 line just because there are a couple of pairs there with some chem but in a short sample I'd say 91's job with that crew is to go to the net. Also, we haven't seen a whole lot of 4 playing with 83 so that should be fun to watch.
So, Miller was openly rooting for the Oilers again, was he?:) He's been known to do that from time to time.
Finally, I'm gonna watch tonight's game with a heavy heart because I love the World Jrs so much and I put so much pressure on the kids and I put such stake in it and I think that's the way it should be.
And all those guys that watch these games every holiday season and talk about it being the best hockey remind me of those fellows that only watch the playoffs but seem to know everything!
So, it's a shame tha Canada lost and it took up so much space in newspapers and on sportscasts even though I think it deserves all the coverage it gets!
@ John Deer.
ReplyDeleteI used to root for schremp and then watched him play for a couple of games when he was called up. He was decidedly average and wasnt better than any of the smurfs playing for us. Schremp had to go to be good anywhere....
Schremp is capable of offense, but is whatever offense he brings good enough to justify his spot. He is more of the top 9 player who needs sheltered minutes. Can you afford to shelter him over others on the roster? Are there other forwards who can do much better with the sheltered minuted than him?
I have absolutely no qualms in letting him go
I predict Schremp will score a peck of goals on the Island.
ReplyDeleteTsn says this streak is a new low for the Oil. My question- Is it?
ReplyDeleteSomebody want to call the Kremlin on Kingsway and let V3.0 know that Ebs is in the hospital and he might want a call or a visit to see how he's doing? Can be awfully lonely in there if no one calls to check up on you.. Hate for Ebs to go off on the organization and get banished to some AHL outpost so he doesn't corrupt the next wave of kids.
ReplyDeleteDennis,
ReplyDeleteDid you catch that error in your SC for the Wings game? I posted at mc79, doesn't look fixed.
Glenn Beck
Haha!
Here's what I wrote in a previous thread when it was fresh in my mind:
ish was just on Stauffer's show for a few segments.
Sounds like Management By Bastard.
Not interested in adding much, just waiting for Pitlik, Lander, Hamilton, Marincin, Hartikainen, Plante, etc to get good enough to play NHL to fill out roster.
Delfated by balloon a little in terms of what to expect next summer.
They can wait for those kids to come along without sucking.
Smart cheap FA's and good incremental trades can make the bottom 6 and D much better than they are now.
If they add shit to the bottom of the roster and D next year like they did this year, I'm picketing Oiler Head Quarters.
Both him and Bob shared an on air orgasm talking about Marincin as well.
That said, Schremp could turn into a decent PP option who can play some easier minutes well.
ReplyDeleteScary player to sign to any kind of deal worth anything, though.
I think Shremp can be a decent soft minutes center.
Problem is that teams of full of decent soft minute players, so you don't go out and get them, they just hang around your roster.
Well a least yesterday's defeat stopped all those people who were claiming that Vistentin should have been the starter all along
ReplyDeleteI think that if Schremp is on your team then you're probably not a very good team.
ReplyDeleteGregor has the defence pairings...
ReplyDeleteGilbert/Peckham
Petry/Smid
Vandermeer/Strudwick
Good thing we're playing the Islanders.
Apparently, Mike Commodore on waivers. The Oilers could use him, but is that contract too big and long to bear?
ReplyDeleteMacT would have MPS buried somewhere and Hall grudgingly given 4th line minutes with Eberle in the AHL.
ReplyDeleteIsn't Landeskog a winger? That cupboard is full.
ReplyDeleteCupboards tend to empty. Prospects don't always turn out(MPS and L'Omark are still question marks), vets get traded (Hemsky, Penner), people get hurt.
The Oilers can always trade a winger for a C or D, or convert someone to C(MPS or Hall).
MBS needs to take the BPA. If thats Landeskog, great. I don't see a lot of top 6 wingers with size, toughness, and grit in the cupboard right now. Landeskog could finish with close to 100 pts, 100 PIM, and a nice +/-. That would be hard to ignore.
I am against RNH. I dont like the fact that most of his proudction comes on the PP.
ReplyDeleteI'm concerned that he's only marginally ahead of 2 other WHL kids in their draft year. Ty Rattie and Micheal St. Croix.
Rattie plays on a pretty stacked Portland team, but Edmonton isn't the team that Red Deer is.
RNH 1.30pts/gm
St. Croix 1.28pts/gm
Rattie 1.25pts/gm
Hunter: I absolutely agree with you. there are scores of players that left edmonton by macT's boot and went on to have great offensive careers.
ReplyDeleteDuring MacT's tenure here Pendergast and Co drafted a shitload of offensive talent that macT just frittered away.
I remember the fucking shitty way he handled Mike Comrie for instance. he stuck him with Smyth and Carter while Weight got to play with gems like a young Cleary and Zholtok.
and remember how he was responsible for making 83 play those couple of years in the A?
Apparently, Mike Commodore on waivers. The Oilers could use him, but is that contract too big and long to bear?
ReplyDeleteThat's a horrid contract for a player who has lost it.
That Howson saying "you want a trade? I can't give you away"
Someone might pick him up, but I really doubt it.
@Dennis: MacT developed exactly zero offensive players at NHL level.
ReplyDeleteOf course, hiring a head coach for an NHL team with zero previous head coaching experience, with a mandate to learn on the job for nearly a decade is something else altogether.
Tonight brings out all the old hatreds within the fanbase, lol.
ReplyDelete@Dennis: MacT developed exactly zero offensive players at NHL level.
ReplyDeleteOther than the single best offensive player the Oilers have had since Doug Weight, you mean?
All of a sudden I am so sorry I helped perpetuate the Schremp talk in this thread, even though it was completely tangential to the Oilers.
ReplyDeleteSeems like a lot of the ''Saw them good/bad crowd'' for the draft.
ReplyDeleteI'l stick to Couturier. Kid that big projecting for the most points. On the skating side i'd go for the Penner syndrome. Anyway, it's common for kids that age and that height.
As for Larsson, comparing him to Hedman and what he did in the SEL that age, he's just subpar to him statistically and Hedman was way bigger.
I don't think he's a Lidstrom, tough he'l probably be a Pitkanen like guy. Hanging on the 40 points mark every season.
I'd be okay with Landeskog for a 1st pick. (If he fulfill his projection). RNH... not so much.
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ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteOther than the single best offensive player the Oilers have had since Doug Weight, you mean?
Don't forget that MacT played him as a 18 year old rook too (as Dennis alluded to)
Want to be clear I'm not trolling. I really appreciate waht MacT brough and all he got out of the less skilled players on the oilers. But, you know, this is an interesting idea.
ReplyDeleteHow good would Hemsky be if he would have played for a coach who had been better at implementing a system that develops offense, instead of emphasizing defense? Would he be a better (ie - more offensively productive) scorer/playmaker?
Jordan: I just think those guys play outside the box anyway. They do stuff that can't be taught in books, so it matters less on the offensive side. Look at Gaborik.
ReplyDeleteBut that's just me.
Jordan, I suspect Hemsky wouldn't have been playing in the NHL then. And it's not like the Oil were a heavy trap team either... from that pov, MacT WAS one of the more offensive coaches in the NHL.
ReplyDeleteHey, anyone notice that Cogliano has slid ahead of Gagner in terms of faceoff percentage?
ReplyDeleteSamwise: 557 @ 42.2%
Jockey or Cogliano on his horse: 360 @ 43.1%
CBJ also waived Kyle Wilson (R handed center, 9th round pick 2004) along with Commodore.
We are eyeing the Blue Jackets waiver offerings hopefully.
ReplyDeleteShoot me now.
Think too of the most common criticisms of Hemsky from the 'sphere... turnovers at the blue line, not getting the puck deep, etc. These are exactly the reasons Hemsky would get benched by MacT.
ReplyDeleteAccording to the Journal Jordan Eberle had an emergency appendectomy last night - good timing as he was already out for an ankle problem.
ReplyDeleteStrudwick is in for Foster who sits out this one.
Dubnyk will start in goal.
How good would Hemsky be if he would have played for a coach who had been better at implementing a system that develops offense, instead of emphasizing defense?
ReplyDeleteAlthough Bob Stauffer likes to repeat this, (and now is saying the same thing about Renney), I am not sure its true. It likely has about as much validity as his continued assertions that Smac is somehow more useful than a paperweight.
Jay: Cogs also leads Gagner in drop passes from the offensive zone back to centre ice and 3 on 1 passes to the Ford sign on the boards.
ReplyDeleteQ: If you could draft a 6'4", +200lb, right handed center who put up about a point and half per game in junior, why wouldn't you?
ReplyDeleteA: 'Cuz you would be drafting Jason Bonsignore.
We can bust the guzintas as much as we want, but I would rather place my faith in Stu to make the call on this one. He has been very complimentary about RNH's skills, BTW, but that is no guarantee that will be his final decision.
Of the front runners, I like Landeskog the most as a player, but the need for a center makes RNH a possiblity (assuming Couturier goes top two). Given the relative weakness at the top of the draft, you have to wonder if Tambellini makes a move with the pick.
Hoil: Attitude difference.
ReplyDeletePlus if you look up the stats.
+ Couturier's on a better pace.
@woodguy
ReplyDeleteboth rattie and st croix have much higher ES production 33 and 32 respectively to 19 by rnh. thats steep man
Denis Potvin was the greatest defenceman who ever lived.
ReplyDeleteJust ask him. He'll tell you.
SumOil,
ReplyDeleteThat's huge,
Too many meh numbers for RNH to be considered a good lottery pick.
All this being said if MBS picks him, I'll trust his read.
@Steve Smith: Hemsky played with Jagr during the lockout, and returned as a good offensive player.
ReplyDeleteThe MacT version of Hemsky the previous season was nothing to write home about.
(assuming Couturier goes top two).
ReplyDeleteOilers are in the mix, if not a favorite to be picking top 2.
Well Stu isn't looking at stats to determine who he's picking he and his staff actively scout these kids and they're giving serious consideration to RNH.
ReplyDelete@ Woodguy
ReplyDeleteYeah...One Guy who MBS should scout the hell out of is Doug Hamilton. If AL and SC are out, then he is someone who could be useful on the blue..
If Stu came to the conclusion that it was to be Landeskog over the other three that might be a situation where toonces overrules him as they're desperate for the positions the other guys play.
ReplyDeleteHunter1909, why don't you tell us all about Mighty Pat Quinn and how he was going to take the Oilers to the promised land? It's one of my favourite bedtime stories.
ReplyDeleteIf I watch tonight's game in my HyperColour shirt with my Vuarnet sunglasses on and crank up the Duran Duran like I'm at Goose Loonies, my armpits will be bright red and your comments on NHL hockey will almost seem relevant.
@RiversQ: What are you on?
ReplyDeleteWell Stu isn't looking at stats to determine who he's picking he and his staff actively scout these kids and they're giving serious consideration to RNH
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think that stats don't play a role in Stu's process?
@RiversQ: After a wacko shop teacher style coach in MacT, Pat Quinn seemed like the best idea possible. Too bad it didn't work out, but at least we only had 1 stinking season with Quinn, instead of how many with MacT? Nine?
ReplyDeletePS: If this MacT yapping continues I'm expecting one of you to Bring up the imaginary cancer he's supposed to have, which generally puts a final end to all discussion re MacT.
I'm so happy MacT still has so many loyal fans, among the fanbase.
ReplyDelete@Rider guy,
ReplyDeleteHahaha, my comment was more a reflection of how poor Gagner's been doing on draws than anything, lol. Probably the filling in for Horc has some effect.
Yeah, that pass to no one last game on the 3v1 by Cogs is still burned into my memory too.
For the record, I'm fine with Gagner as 2C, though I can't see him ever been a 1C like some.
I'm also not a big fan of Cogliano's defensive zone coverage, his "Marchant with hands" or much else really. Cogs just can't compensate for his lack of execution with his effort level unfortunately.
Woodguy said it best already... "Never has a player skated so much and done so little" or something to that effect.
Funny how MacT never worked once since leaving the Oilers - despite the contant trumpeting of how he would be picked up immediately by so many NHL teams.
ReplyDeleteObviously he's not considered to be worth an NHL coaching job.
Of course, this is where the imaginary cancer comes in handy.
It's too bad Schremp isn't an Oiler - I hear he could cure that cancer, being the hockey jesus and all.
ReplyDeleteHang on a sec... If Schremp had been on the team in 08-09, would there have been a cancer in the room, or would he have healed it...?
Agree that trading the pick is something to think seriously about if none of the top guys are blowing Stu away. He earns his money in the second and third rounds anyway.
ReplyDeleteI wonder what we could realistically get for the pick if it turned out to be #1 again.
Funny how MacT never worked once since leaving the Oilers - despite the contant trumpeting of how he would be picked up immediately by so many NHL teams.
ReplyDeleteHe was paid by the Oilers up until the end of the last year, and just finished his MBA.
MacTavish wants to be a manager.
I think he would be a good one if he didn't get the "smartest guy in the room" syndrome.
A wise man knows what he does not know.
@woodguy
ReplyDeleteThe stats as people are interpreting them here are not a huge consideration.
@ smarmy bos.. not true...ES production is pretty important
ReplyDeleteHorcoff?
ReplyDeleteManute Bol averaged 3.3 blocks/game in his NBA career.
The stats as people are interpreting them here are not a huge consideration.
ReplyDeleteSo what stats does MBS use and what does he throw out?
I tend to agree with Sum that EV pts/gm is a pretty important stat.
fpv: Couturier's points per game scoring pace isn't exactly blowing anybody away. RNH hasn't lit it up this season, but he is the only skater for Red Deer in the top 20 WHL scoring, and the Rebels have allowed fewer goals against than any other WHL team.
ReplyDeleteConsidering RNH is just starting to fill out his frame and Couturier is likely 40 lbs heavier than he is right now, projecting them 5 years down the road is not that simple.
For the record, Daigle's junior numbers kick Couturiers pace's ass.
As for attitude, team's spend a lot more time testing and researching that these days. Barring inside information, I doubt many of us can do more than guess about what is going on inside these player's heads.
To tell the truth, neither player looks to be a lock as a first line center. Couturier looks like the safer bet, but RNH may turn into another Kariya.
In Stu we trust...
3 Questions
ReplyDelete1) How does it feel to be a HS in favour of Jason Strudwick, statistically the worst NHL defender in the league?
2) When 2 goes wandering out of position in the neutral zone and Ozone, how many potential 2 on 1 and 3 on 1 turn into 2 on 0 and 3 on 0 because Struddy is skating in quicksand?
3) Why did I get involved in making Hockey Jesus and MacT the focus of this thread? Sorry LT.
Some people are extremely irritating and ignorant.
ReplyDeleteWoodguy:
ReplyDelete4) Bad enough you brought up and returned to the Hockey Jesus testament, you referenced the banana hammock photo and made me throw up a little in my mouth.
WG: I guess you can rephrase 4) into a question.
ReplyDeleteCogs also leads Gagner in drop passes from the offensive zone back to centre ice and 3 on 1 passes to the Ford sign on the boards.
ReplyDeleteThis made me spit out my beer. I watched the game a day late on PVR so missed any commentary on here. Jesus those were terrible plays and your description was terrific.
Like a prospective medical student failing their MCATs tells the powers-that-be the mental horsepower isn't there to save peoples lives, to me, a player who's brain allows them make a drop pass 1-inch inside the blue line needs to start looking at a different line of work. There's a long line of athletes with million dollar talent corrupted by 10 cent brains.
Wow, those are some terrible faceoff stats from our kids.
ReplyDeleteI keep asking this but has anyone ever gone from the FO outhouse to the penhouse?
Both guys have been in the long long enough now that you'd like to see some kind of improvement.
@woodguy
ReplyDeleteES scoring is fine but without quality of comp stats it isn't as useful.
If anyone wants to advocate taking Rattie over RNH based on ES then fine but they're wrong.
Gagner's taking a lot more draws than Cogliano with Horcoff out and is facing the other teams best guys. There's no doubt Gagner has and is getting better on the dots.
ReplyDeletePosting the name "Rob Schremp" on an oiler blog is like saying "beetlejuice" three times.
ReplyDeleteOnce you've done it.....
Hoil: Daigle was another kid who hadn't ''Filled out his body''.
ReplyDeleteThat arguement is as horseshit as it gets. It's a big double-edged sword.
Considering RNH's main skillset (Passing and perimeter play) filling out his body wouldn't be such a major upgrade.
Couturier without mind blowing numbers?
On a full season (70) he'S pacing for a 113 points.
If you want a guy with similar stats in Junior there's Eric Staal.
Jesus I can't believe how bad rated he is.
Normally it's stats vs upside.
Not it's Stats+Upside Vs Smoke'n'mirrors.
LT, I was the one who posted my concerns about 2011's draft quality. As a pure math guy you can dismiss this event as a small sample size, nonentity but I use the WJHC to finally see how these elite prospects, whose numbers I've studied, fare against the world's best. A handful of guys in each tournament will turn out to be elite NHLers and if they don't produce dynamic stats usually something makes you stand up and take notice. I vividly remember Patrick Kane being the best American on the ice. I remember Phil Kessel, in full face shield, toe-dragging some defenseman and wiring that snap shot for the goal of the tournament. I remember Tavares pulling the puck around the sprawling American defenseman and roofing it to start the comeback. You'd say these are individual plays that I shouldn't pay much attention to but I'd say a guy who makes enough of these plays can do something at the NHL level too.
ReplyDeleteI'm not writing Couturier off in the least but after his wonderful season last year a "look-at-me" performance in this event would have solidified his status as a guy you can draft and build your team around. Remember, we can compare him to some other guys in their draft years who blew up at this event (Tavares, Hall, Kane, Kessel, Niederreiter) and at least acknowledge that he...didn't. I don't buy the "lack of opportunity" argument. This Canadian team was the weakest in recent history (for star talent) and Taylor Hall would have forced the coach to play him regularly in scoring situations.
Many years guys go to the WJHC projected in a certain spot and come out of this tournament with that spot "locked up". All I'm saying is that Couturier, Larsson and Landeskog left the door wide open for anything to happen over the next 6 months.
Let's put it this way. If you liked Adam Larsson at 1st overall before this event are you now switching to Couturier?
Knighttown: Hall wasn't mind blowing at all.
ReplyDelete+ Both teams had the same results.
Gagner's taking a lot more draws than Cogliano with Horcoff out and is facing the other teams best guys. There's no doubt Gagner has and is getting better on the dots.
ReplyDeleteCogliano's been getting Horcoff's PK time, and Gagner's been getting Horcoff's PP time.
So, that is kind of an excuse for Gagner.
@ Smarmy Boss
ReplyDeleteIf you are talking about a top draft pick and he happens to be the best scorer on the team, i think it is fair to assume that they all will see tough matchups in road games and possibly easy ones at home..Not too different from top players in NHl or any other league
@ Smarmy Boss
ReplyDeleteIf you have time look for some of the work JW did on housesofhockey/ hockey or die. He compared top draft picks with the top scoring draft picks. You will find it interesting
Sumoil: Can you shoot a link? Last time I tried to find something it took me hours there.
ReplyDeleteSmarmy,
ReplyDeleteIts not that I'm advocating Rattie or St. Croix over RNH, its that for a lottery pick I'd hope to see more separation from those guys, and better number by most, if not all metrics.
That being sad MBS in going to know the top guys as well as their mother, he'll make the right pick.
Yeah all I'm saying is they'll be scouting all these top guys and the stats won't be as big a factor as to what these players are doing on the ice and what other teams are doing to stop them.
ReplyDeletePlus RNH is a guy you can draft and likely leave down in junior for another year and nobody would rag on you that much.
SB: Well yeah there's that, but at a point, you just can't ignore that one guy who's pacing under a another guy's last year.
ReplyDeleteI still think Couturier stays the clear cut N1. Just that after that it's pretty much anyone's guess.
Once we figure out where the Oilers are picking I'm probably fine with any of the top four being bantered about.
ReplyDeleteKnighttown: I liked Couturier at #1 before the tournament and like him #1 now. I'm more set on #2 (Larsson) and the gap has closed, which I guess is your point.
ReplyDeleteLet me ask you a question: do you think Couturier played in a feature role similar to Hall's one year ago? Kane's in his season?
@flamingpavelbure
ReplyDeletei dont have time today. I will post that in 2morrow's thread
@ Woodguy
If MBS chooses RNH then i will cheer for him too. but as you rightly said, for a lottery pick there should be more separation from the pack
MacT is a very intelligent man. I suspect he'd make a decent GM one day.
ReplyDeleteIrish Whiskey is like liquid pot with a heavy dose of aggression thrown in.
ReplyDeleteJust saying.
What's wrong with Irish Whisky?
ReplyDelete-----
I question the notion that Hall wasn't very good in his pre-draft WJC. I remember he had issues with turnovers and he wasn't strong on the puck at times, but the fellow still put up 6-6-12 in 6 games (if I recall collectly).
Those are fantastic totals for any player in that tournament, regardless of age. The fact that he did it as a young 18 year old is all the sweeter.
What's wrong with Irish Whisky?
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely nothing.
CBJ put Commodore on waivers. Would anyone here take him on waivers or re-entry? Hes got 2 more years after this one @ 3.75m
ReplyDeleteJon K: Yeah he had good totals. But by that I meant he didn't look like he was driving the bus. Just a good player on a good team.
ReplyDeleteNo question LT, Couturier was not given the chance to shine that Hall and Kane were. My argument is kind of chicken-and-eggish I suppose but I feel that Taylor Hall or Patrick Kane would have forced the coaching staff to play them in a more prominent role.
ReplyDeleteA lot can be learned from coaching decisions. The coach wants to win the game more than anyone else and in a short tournament especially, where other factors such as development and confidence aren't serious factors, he's going to put the people on the ice he thinks give him the best chance to win.
Let's look at the two situations specifically:
Power Play- By my eye, Sean Couturier played secondary power play minutes at best, so the coaches had him well behind Schenn, Johansen, Kassian and Jaden Schwarz before the injury. These guys didn't just play 1st power play they played damn near all of it. Couturier was lumped in with Eakin, Leblanc and Brett Connolly who got some time but i don't remember much impact from that group.
At evens, I'd guess the ice time was:
Johansen-Kassian-Foligno
Schenn-Hamilton-Eakin
Cizikis-Leblanc-Ashton
Couturier-Howden-Connolly
So he basically played 4th line minutes and secondary power play time on a team relatively light in talent. I think that's telling.
What's wrong with Irish Whisky?
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely nothing.
That's the problem
Dennis: I would agree our four-year vets should be winning more than 3 of 7 draws at this point. If you want the alrm bells to ring louder, check out how they did vs. those craft 19 y.o. vets Matt Duchene and Ryan O'Reilly last week.
ReplyDeleteIt's gonna be pretty hard for the Oilers to NOT get points tonight.
ReplyDeleteNY has two AHL goalies, lacks theirs best checking forward and their # 2 defenseman.
They'll have to tank pretty hard to lose
And Brule's on a roll.
ReplyDeleteCogs and Brules value will never be higher!! Move em out!!
ReplyDeleteGoalie's first game ever? Look to him to shut the door the rest of the game.
ReplyDeleteDid everyone see how lazy Penner's celebration was on the shortie?
ReplyDeleteI'm sure that's not a GWG or any other kind of clutch goal.
WG: Bushmills or Jamesons? or ... ?
ReplyDeleteNice work by 58 on the 2 on 1.
ReplyDeleteNice work by 83 to make it not so much a 2 on 1 by the top of the circle.
fpb: Any smoke and mirrors you are seeing are coming from your own campfire. I will respond as if you aren't deliberately trolling.
ReplyDeleteYou have:
1) Quoted stats without context to back your argument.
2) When your stats are questioned, revert to "attitude" argument.
3) Rinse and repeat to avoid being pinned on any point.
SIZE
Size is one of the big reasons Couturier is rated so much higher than RNH, but when I suggest RNH projects to become larger you say that his size is unimportant to his game. If you think RNH is purely a perimeter player I would suggest you catch some WHL games.
Scouting reports suggest RNH wins more than his share of puck battles against larger opponents using his smarts and tenacity, so becoming bigger and stronger would undoubtably make him even more competitive in that area.
From my own personal experience, many of the outstanding atheletes growing up "peaked" in both size and their level of domination above their peers. Then some late bloomers showed up and got bigger and better going into their twenties.
I still think Couturier is the safer pick to turn into a decent NHL regular, but RNH isn't chopped liver and could surprise long term. I don't discount Stu's opinion that easily or those of some other guys:
http://www.leaderpost.com/sports/football/riders100/2011+crop+looks+bountiful/3718273/story.html?id=3718273
When did lifting someones stick become a penalty?
ReplyDeleteBruce,
ReplyDelete12 year old Jamesons.
Its distilled angel tears.
Hoil: Well you compared Couturier directly to Jason Bonsignore. Wtf did you expect?
ReplyDeleteIt's not a secret that Bonsignore had attitude and injury problems.
Something Couturier doesn't appear to have.
So if you want to criticize what I said begin by not comparing two guys who have nothing to do wich each other but theyr sizes.
Fuck.
Hoil: Then I mentionned that RNH's stats projection won't shift Couturier's previous season.
ReplyDeleteHeh.
That is two weak calls in a row. If I were a conspiracist I'd say the league is trying to make this game respectable.
ReplyDeleteIf that's a penalty on 5, Jason Smith should have spent 12 years in the box.
ReplyDeleteBOO!!!
"Hey #9 its hockey not ringette"
/bruce
I saw RNH play two games in November. Was very impressed by his game without the puck. Great anticipation, often has the element of surprise on his side, but battles hard too. More to his game than finesse.
ReplyDeleteWith NYI so obviously trying to finish last - it would be sweet justice to watch them lose the lottery this spring.
ReplyDeleteShit, if Smid keeps driving there he might have a freebie. He's third guy up the ice, no need to play it as safe as he did.
ReplyDeleteHow many players in the NHL can make that pass on the 2on1 like Hemsky just did?
ReplyDeleteHe's had a couple of crappy games, but damn that guy has a lot of talent.
WG: Funny how "interference" is back in the rule book tonight after a temporary annulment while the Wings came to town.
ReplyDeleteAsiaOil
ReplyDeleteNY is 7-1-1 their last nine. I'd hardly call that tanking.
It'saleaf: Well by how management handles it, it looks like they're trying to tank it.
ReplyDeleteIt's just that Schremp and his mirror gang fucks up the plan.
@RiversQ: Probably only 50-100 guys could make it with any consistency. It was a beauty pass, for sure.
ReplyDeleteGood to see the jump back in his step tonight.
Bruce,
ReplyDeleteIts only interference if you hit someone.
Wings clutching and grabbing is "cagey hockey by veterans"
-Colie
RQ,
ReplyDeleteIts like 4 had too much time after that pass.
4 needs to learn that sometimes he just needs to hit the puck when it comes to him... especially if he plays with 83 for any length of time.
WG: I must've seen fifty pick plays the other night. And I'm sure that - like the refs - I missed more than I saw.
ReplyDeleteBruce,
ReplyDeleteWings are Masters of "establishing a lane"
Its not interference if the other guy skates into you.
The Wings also interfere a lot$
ReplyDeleteHey guys,
ReplyDeleteI missed the first period, so I was just wondering what the line combos tonight are. Also, how has Petry looked?
Thanks
Did everyone see how lazy Penner's celebration was on the shortie?
ReplyDeleteI'm sure that's not a GWG or any other kind of clutch goal.
It could retroactively become one, which is more you can say for anything Hemsky's ever done.
Hall definitely missing Ebs. Any chance they drive to the games in a Red Torino with a white racing stripe?
ReplyDeleteI, for one, like Petry's game. He's smooth with the puck and uses his long reach very well.
ReplyDeleteHe made one bad pass but it was in the ozone and caused no problems.
If he keeps playing this way, I don't think he'll be going back down
@Anon
ReplyDeleteHall-Gagner-Hemsky
Penner-Cogs-Brule
Paajarvi-Reddox-Omark
Mac-Fraser-Jones
40 just showed why your goalie is the key PKer.
ReplyDeleteGreat positioning on multiple chances.
Why does Smid get a chintzy interference penalty for a minor hit, while Hall gets laid out without touching the puck and no call?
ReplyDeleteRob Schremp and his shinebox.
ReplyDeleteLee...
ReplyDeleteAre u calling them Starsky and Clutch?
I am now ;)
ReplyDeleteThat's a bad decision by Petry.
ReplyDeletespOILer, Lee, you two have made my night complete. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteIf only Hall was Polish, they would be the perfect nicknames for our dynamic duo.
ReplyDeleteLee...
ReplyDeleteAre u calling them Starsky and Clutch?
Wow.
That should stick.
Theory: bad Rexall ice is ruining Ales Hemsky's season.
ReplyDeleteWG, we can't put that curse on them. There's no such as clutch, remember?
ReplyDeleteDamn clever call from Spoiler though!
Shots after 2:
ReplyDelete23-15 for the Islanders. That's 1.5:1, folks.
Thanks guys. I know I'll use it again. Along with SpotCheck. Or is it CheckSpot?
ReplyDeleteWG, we can't put that curse on them. There's no such as clutch, remember?
ReplyDeleteWell, not now that Eberle's had his appendix out.
Faceoffs after two: NYI 27 EDM 12
ReplyDeleteKonopka 9/9, Fraser 1/11
Schremp 7 wins of 9 attempts at the dot.
ReplyDelete*runs*
Eberle's appendix doesn't tell the whole story...
ReplyDeleteEV shots 14-13
ReplyDeleteNYI PP 1-10
EDM PP - cannot divide by 0
Who else plans their emergency appendectomy for a time when they're already out with an ankle sprain?
ReplyDeleteThe Force is strong with this one.
I have the chances at 11-14 after 40 and the Oilers have been on a good PK run but the Isles are finding the season at 5 on 4 and at 5 on 5 for that matter.
ReplyDeleteI'd be shocked if the Oilers can hang onto this one unless they get a goal in the first 5 min of the period.
It just feels like a game where the Isles have figured out what works.
Also, Konopka 9/9 in draws and Schremp 7/8.
That Jari Kurri article on the Oiler site got me thinking how much Eberle reminds me of him. Cerebral player, good defensively, always seems to be in the right position, protects the puck well despite his size. If Ebs had Kurri's legendary one-timer, I think it would be a very solid comparable.
ReplyDeleteHemsky had Gagner and Hall both in front of the net, and he chose to skate around the net, rather than to throw/shoot the puck at the net.
ReplyDelete5 is back on the PP.
ReplyDeleteJesus wept.
Macintyre has 2 shots in 3 minutes of play.
ReplyDeleteWell shit.
Hemsky, on the PP, skates the puck from the sidewall into the corner and then passes it back to the point.
ReplyDeleteTears of Jamesons?
ReplyDeleteCogliano has to learn to use his lane agaonst the guy, especially with his speed.
ReplyDeleteThe opportunity to trade Brule has been lost w/that dumb penalty.
ReplyDeleteIf 67 just skates towards the puck, or glides, cuts off Tavares and doesn't use his arms, there's no interference penalty.
ReplyDeleteThat's how a Wing would do it.
Sorry yes meant Brule too. And yes exactly. No need to take that one.
ReplyDeleteSmid seems to have learned his lesson from his fiasco with Avery. Now he keeps the gloves on and head shots guys from behind. There may be hope for him yet.
ReplyDeletePetry has a decent shot. Unexpected bonus.
ReplyDeleteHe looks more comfortable lately.
23 comes out of heavy traffic with the puck much more than most guys his size.
ReplyDeleteThat's pretty crusty jammy gritty of him.