In a long season there are small things that indicate where these young men are on the depth chart. Whereas losing a player to waivers might keep him on the big league roster at the beginning of the year, said player better deliver when called upon or someone is going to pass him on the depth chart.
Here's what has happened during the 10-11 Oilers season along the blue:
- Opening Roster: Whitney-Gilbert, Smid-Foster, Vandermeer-Peckham and Strudwick the 7th man.
- November 16: recall Shawn Belle.
- November 24: Oilers reassign Shawn Belle.
- December 27: recall Jeff Petry.
- December 31: recall Shawn Belle.
- January 2: Oilers reassign Shawn Belle.
- January 9: recall Taylor Chorney.
- January 22: Oilers reassign Taylor Chorney.
- Jeff Petry has skipped past all of the minor leaguers and a few of the major leaguers on the depth chart.
- Shawn Belle impressed enough in his first recall but may not have done as well his second time up. Either that or the team wanted to reward Chorney for hard work on the farm.
- Alex Plante is not among the top recall options this season. If true, that's a step back for a player who appeared to be playing well.
- I would think Belle, Chorney and Plante would be among the group considered for recall when Vandermeer is dealt at the deadline. I wouldn't count out AHL vet Bryan Helmer who is killing it in OKC after signing with the Barons.
I do hope it's Plante, anyone who knows me knows I am a huge supporter of him, too many people forget that he's only 21
ReplyDeleteFrom what I saw of Chorney in this short viewing is he is still very weak and makes poor decisions with the puck. He is miles behind Petry in hockey sense and strength along the boards.
ReplyDeleteMaybe they're mad because he showed everybody up as fastest skater today?
ReplyDeleteFun tidbit, Brian Rafalski, although he seems to have been around for forever by my recollection, has only been in the NHL for 9 seasons. Another fun fact is that of those 9 seasons he's been to the Stanley Cup finals 5 times, winning the cup 3 times. That's spectacular in a 30 team league to be batting over 50% for finals and 33% for championships.
ReplyDeleteBrian Rafalski spent 4 full seasons in college and about another 4 in Europe playing in the SEL and SM Liiga. He was 26 by the time he crossed the pond to start out with the Devils. So if he's Chorney's very unlikely upside, dude still has 3 years to arrive.
From the way the Oilers handled him, I'm convinced he would have been better served by 4 years of college and 4 years in the SM Liiga myself. I don't think he makes it myself, but I'm rooting for the kid, if for no other reason than because of the horrible way the Oilers managed him...textbook how to ruin a prospect stuff.
OKL is 19th in the AHL in attendance.
ReplyDeleteThe are averaging 3900 a game, just ahead of Toronto and Hamilton.
The league average is 4900 a night.
I wonder if this is good or bad or an issue for the Oilers.
I hear Helmer is really good in the room (hint hint)
ReplyDeleteChorney is brutal. He's like Jacques et al. They never get better.
ReplyDeleteHuh - Steve MacIntyre took second for hardest shot, apparently. I don't quite know what to say about that. Muscle counts, I guess (the others in the top three, Foster and Penner, are also huge).
ReplyDeleteChorney is brutal. He's like Jacques et al. They never get better.
ReplyDeleteThank you for that. Please let us know if you have any other penetrating insights.
@Ducey
ReplyDeleteI suspect it takes more then half a season to build their brand.
Huh - Steve MacIntyre took second for hardest shot, apparently. I don't quite know what to say about that. Muscle counts, I guess (the others in the top three, Foster and Penner, are also huge).
ReplyDeleteheight is pretty important for slapshots. Funny MacIntyre displayed his lack of skill as well by having the second hardest shot and one that was 90 mph. jacques missed the net on his first attempt.
Didn't Helmer break some kind of record this year? He's in the top five in d-man scoring in the AHL of all time?
ReplyDeleteSome thing like that maybe it was a 1000 games. I'm not sure.
I'm sure he'd be better then Foster. Let him have a turn.
Based on his play during the past few months, i wouldn't mind having Jimmy-V back as a 6/7D. Do you think he would sign for 700-750k? I would rather the mgnt moved Foster, who has been a big let-down.
ReplyDeleteWith Whitney-Gilbert-Petry ahead of him as puck movers, do they move Chorney? Does he have value?
As for OKC, I think they need a good play-off run to suck in some more fans, some of which hopefully stick for the regular season.
Chorney looked better this year, but still not ready for the bigs. Maybe next year.
ReplyDeleteThe real story here is Petry. Does his emergence as a quality defenseman allow the team to move Gilbert?
@ jjwiens57 - Helmer is now the all-time top scoring defenseman in the AHL, not just top 5. He is on fire in OKC, although I wouldn't expect him to continue at quite that pace. But yes, he might be worth a call-up.
ReplyDeleteI know Foster has been a big disappointment this year, but Im not gonna stick that one on Tambo or management - it was a good bet that didn't work out.
The only problem with Vandermeer back is that he will most likely be paired with Foster, making that pairing, as Ben Massey puts it, slower than evolution!
ReplyDeleteI would have rather watched a Chorney Vandermeer pairing for a couple of games.
@OilerMag
Vandermeer had his best games alongside Whitney. Lets see how he fares without him
Rick, you don't even entertain thoughts of trading Gilbert at this point. The team needs good experienced defencemen in a bad way.
ReplyDeletePetry has shown well but he's nowhere at the level of Gilbert yet, neither is he established. Also I don't think he can take on the 29 minutes a night Gilbert has been pushing of late.
How about we give this 2 more seasons before installing Petry as the top D and shipping any good defencemen out of town.
The real story here is Petry. Does his emergence as a quality defenseman allow the team to move Gilbert?
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely and unequivocally: no. Not unless the Oilers have no interest in making the playoffs anytime in the next five years.
Given our lack of depth on the blueline in terms of established veterans, Whitney and Gilbert are basically untouchable at this point. An impressive start to an NHL career by Petry does nothing to change this fact.
Now, if you asked whether or not this might make the idea of trading Ladislav Smid more likely to come to fruition, that is a discussion that probably should take place.
I think Vandy is a good bet to be re-signed for cheap if he isn't moved at the deadline. RH defenceman who can play in this league and have a physical edge, will always have value, like Staios. Very useful spare part.
ReplyDeleteHBomb, no one is untouchable, except a couple of the kids. Are you saying you wouldn't move Gilbert if it meant Weber coming back?
spOILer: I understand the "Gretzky got traded" argument, and absolutely if a player like Weber is out there, Gilbert would be in play. But they'd still have to go out and get another guy to anchor the second pairing if they moved Gilbert off in such an (unlikely) deal.
ReplyDeleteThey need to try to add a top-four d-man (and ideally top-two) without subtracting any of Whitney, Gilbert, Peckham or Petry. Good luck with that.
Petry's endurance is the key right now. This is the first time in his life he has played a season of this length. He's showing well as his body is mature and strong, an effortless skater, and smart with his energy on the ice. But absolutely, we can't be handing him 28 mins a night and giving him first pairing matchups. Let him grow into the job, for pete's sake.
ReplyDeleteYeah H, that's the big problem, but you still have to be open to deals like that. Then get a Hejda off UFA or run Peckham-Petry as the 2nd pair.
ReplyDeleteor run Peckham-Petry as the 2nd pair.
ReplyDeleteThat second pairing makes me think we're in some sort of on-going series.
Five Dive III - The Burnt ELC Years
The question going in the off season is whether
ReplyDeleteWhitney-X
Gilbert-Peckman
Petry-Smid
is good enough D corps to get to the playoffs. I guess it will all depend on who X is. Hejda would be affordable and good in that role.
However I would like Oilers to take a run at Weber for an offersheet after the draft.
For example purposes only:
ReplyDeleteWHIT WEBE
PECK PETR
SMID VAND
FOST
I would feel more secure with Gilbert there too, but I think that pairing can handle it. Peckham has faced a lot of top lines this past month, albeit with Gilbert as his chaperone, but the kid is showing well and Petry doesn't make a lot of HUA plays that require covering.
The two alternatives are to improve the D by trading Petry, which means giving up on his youth and cheapness. Or to solve the problem through FA which will be equally as difficult to find a first pairing guy with a good point shot (which is what we are missing).
We could also stand pat, I suppose, but I doubt we have a playoff bound team with our present D corps. And that would mean Dive for Five III.
I would so much rather trade than offer sheet, or go after Burns.
ReplyDeleteHejda is not a top pairing Dman, nor is he a shooter or offer anything offensively, and he plays the left side. He fits not one of the criteria of what the Oilers need alongside Whitney. He would be useful yes, but at the expense of Smid.
Sorry the above was @SumOil.
ReplyDeleteThe two alternatives are to improve the D by trading Petry, which means giving up on his youth and cheapness. Or to solve the problem through FA
ReplyDeleteWhat about Plante?
Packaged with Omark for instance.
That might be attractive bait for a budget or Cap constrained team.
@ Spoiler
ReplyDeleteWhy do you say that Hejda wont be a fit. He has been one of the best D man in CBJ and has almost always been used as a shutdown role. Remember how good the Whitney-Vandermeer pairing was, That would be much better with Hejda!
About Weber, Nashville will not want to trade Weber and will continue to wait as ling as possible to sign him and may even end up signing him. If we get Weber and make some good signings in the FA, then we should be making the playoffs consistently and then those 1st round picks wont be as important. IMO Weber >> 4 mid 1st round picks.
I dont prefer Burns.He has essentially been a second pairing D man all along in Minny and is seeing success again in his contract season and is going to command a lot of money and may not outplay his contract value.
Weber will and should command a higher return than what Pronger did.
ReplyDeleteWeber will and should command a higher return than what Pronger did.
ReplyDeleteYou mean....SIX assets????
Sum,
ReplyDeleteNot at my computer right now but Hedja's advanced numbers are underwhelming this year.
Essentially he's playing 2 nd toughs with reasonable help and is under water.
Add to that the fact that he's LH, and he's not a great fit with 6.
Weber would cost a ton (and should). Its a pipedream but would set the Oilers up for a decade.
ReplyDeleteRemember when the Oilers used to be able to find useful defensemen in relative obscurity? We thought it was KLo. I still think it is but they are deadpanned on sucking and refuse to add. A lottery is absolutely the way to go but this unwillingness to improve needs to end July 2011 or sooner.
Off topic, but the New Spartacus show is bloody awesome. I missed Batiatus!
ReplyDeleteSumOil,
ReplyDeleteBurns and keeping 4 first rnd draft picks is greater than Weber and losing 4.
And if you are going off recent sample sizes, Weber is having a crap year compared to his past.
Burns appears to have figured it out this year, considering he has been learning the position on the job.
And yes Hejda would be useful, but as a shutdown PK specialist, not as first pairing guy expected to have a slap shot (cause Whitney doesn't). If he had some O with his D, I would agree, but he just doesn't shoot the puck.
I gotta go get brunch ready for our year end NFL pool wrap up, including a mountain of hash browns so...
Go Pack!
(Least hated of the remaining 4, hehe)
spoiler - ummm no, Go Bears!
ReplyDeleteSum,
ReplyDeleteHedja this year:
Scoring
+/- 5v5 /60: 6/7
Scoring QC: 4/7
Scoring QT:2/7
RelCorsi
RelCor: 5/7 (+0.9)
RelCorQC: 3/7
RelCorQT: 3/7
So underwater in both metrics.
Couple this with his age (33 this June), and that fact that he shoots left and Hejda shouldn't be considered for a first line role.
If you pick him up and go:
6-77
JH-58
49-5
That's ok, but probably not great.
Having 2 LHS on the 3rd pair doesn't help them either as 5 begged Renney not to play him on the right side, he's lost there.
Weber's numbers dont seem on the decline.
ReplyDeleteHe is facing the best competition among all D men on the club. Best Corsi relative to QoC
45.3% Zonestart. +3.4% zoneshift
7.5 rel corsi second only to Ryan Suter
His scoring is not at the same level as 2 seasons ago, but he is still on pace for 40+ points on a defensive team like Nashville.
No player we draft in the next 4 seasons will have the same impact as Weber would. Even them four combined might not be the same as Weber. This team is closer to competing that many realize.
While Burns' underlying numbers are pretty good this season, he simply does not have the same impact as Weber.
WG
ReplyDeleteThank you.
I did not know that he was not doing so well this season. I also did not know he was that old. Ok maybe he wont be a great fit.
Cue the 2nd coming of Josef Hrabel! I kid. Seriously, just say no to 3-4 1st round picks for a Weber RFA offer sheet.
ReplyDeleteSumOil said...
ReplyDeleteWeber's numbers dont seem on the decline. He is facing the best competition among all D men on the club. Best Corsi relative to QoC 45.3% Zonestart. +3.4% zoneshift 7.5 rel corsi second only to Ryan Suter His scoring is not at the same level as 2 seasons ago, but he is still on pace for 40+ points on a defensive team like Nashville. No player we draft in the next 4 seasons will have the same impact as Weber would. Even them four combined might not be the same as Weber. This team is closer to competing that many realize. While Burns' underlying numbers are pretty good this season, he simply does not have the same impact as Weber.
You're not making much sense again.
His boxcars are in decline, but his numbers aren't?
You make Zoneshift points without referring to the past. Despite it being a comparison to the past argument that you are trying to poke holes in.
Somehow the team he is on is having an effect, despite it being the same team he was on in prior years.
And then you shunt aside the numbers and make a bunch of unsupported statements about impact.
Spoiler
ReplyDelete"His boxcars are in decline, but his numbers aren't?"
Actually Weber's underlying numbers are better than last year. All his production came from playing second toughs last season, but this season he is playing the toughs and still has better or equal numbers as last season.
go on behind the net and verify it.
as far as his boxcars are concerned,he scored 43 points last season in 78 games and that meant he was involved in 20% of the goals scored by the team. this season he has 29 points in 49 games and has been involved in 21.8% of the goals scored by the team so no decline in scoring number either. So his boxcars are not really on a decline.
"You make Zoneshift points without referring to the past. Despite it being a comparison to the past argument that you are trying to poke holes in."
Fine I did not give you past numbers, but why should I? I am telling you he is the best on the team. If you wish please go and check if my numbers are wrong or that they are worse than last season. you know where to find it. You have nit backed up any of ur arguements with much facts and then are pointing out holes in mine.
"Somehow the team he is on is having an effect, despite it being the same team he was on in prior years."
I never said that. I said that his boxcars are not as good as 2 seasons ago. But 40+ points on a defensive team like Nashville is great production.
You said that Weber is having a crap year compare to his past and you dont have any evidence to substantiate your claim. When I am telling you that he is not having a crap year, you keep on pointing to irrelevant things.
Now about Impact. If you are telling me that Weber: Nashville is the same as Burns : Minneseota, then I dont think I can say anything else.
Ok you say that Burns and 4 draft picks have more value than Weber. Maybe it is true, but Burns is signed for another year after which he is a UFA. So if you plan to acquire Burns this offseason, as we are talking about this off-season, then you have to give up some assets to get him too right.
So Burns with one season left on his contract + assets traded for him hold the same value as say Weber signed fr 10+ years and 4 1st round draft picks which will most likely be near the 13-18 catagory?
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ReplyDelete