Not long after signing Jeff Deslauriers to a one-year contract north of 1M (which will see JDD reach free agency next summer), word comes that the Chicago Blackhawks have walked away from Antti Niemi's arbitration award of 2.75M. The Oilers have three roster goalies already available for 2 slots, and have 5.6M tied up in Faith, Hope and Charity.
This suggest all kinds of conclusions: Stan Bowman may be as good a GM as his Dad; Chicago believes Marty Turco can carry a major workload and win them a Stanley (you don't make this move to save a million and lose the Stanley); the Edmonton Oilers might be in the market for a 4th goalie on an NHL contract.
In terms of Bowman, I don't think this is a terribly wise move. You've ripped up the roster like an Edmonton road construction crew in August and now you flush the goalie who stood in the net for the 16W's? Hmmm.
Turco is 34 and likely exiting the prime of his career (this past season was a recovery year), and Niemi is about 8 years younger and should have excellent seasons down the line.
As for the Oilers, I don't think they'll be in the mix for Niemi. It's too soon in the rebuild to bring in a proven goaltender, and if you do that then you're sure as hell going to improve the blue, the C and the wings.
My guess is Philly for Niemi. They saw him good not long ago.
Cap troubles everywhere one looks.
ReplyDeletePhilly is probably a good guess for Niemi, but there's more moves that need to be made there too.
Why wouldn't Bowman just bury Huet in the minors? Insurance for an injury.
yup, Philly or any other team that may need a starter.
ReplyDeleteThis is two summers in a row where the goalie market has coughed up cheap value in August.
ReplyDeleteLike not drafting goalies early, there seems to be no point to signing UFA tenders early either.
Yes I'm looking at you, Steve Tambellini.
maybe we should look at 'goalies'. they stop 'goals' against.
ReplyDeleteOnly reason I can see that Huet not already buried in the minors yet (along w/Brian Campbell) is that the team is still trying find someone to take those salaries.
ReplyDeleteIf you believe believe the story last week that they lost money last year you have to be thinking that the role players are fungible and that the key is the elite core players (Toews, Kane, Barker, etc...). Also, they buy into the Detroit philosophy of goaltending now (versus Tallon's belief that you invest too much money in it - KH, Huet).
Bowman may very well be a good GM, but Chicago will look very different this season.
LT when do you begin that bit where you project the fupcoming season for all the playeras under contract? I think it's usually in August, right?
ReplyDeleteI always look forward to that.
Its hard to argue with results. Chicago won the Stanley Cup and 29 other teams didn't. However (really big however), I look at most of Dale Tallon's moves as a GM and I just shake my head. The dollars (and contract length) he spent on assets just blow me away. e.g. Huet, Campbell, Hossa. Those contracts and the fax machine fiasco from a couple years ago were plenty good reason to relieve him of his job. I hear people praising him as "the architect" of the championship team. Maybe so, but he's completely lacking in long term focus, business sense, and basically common sense. I'm surprised he found another job. But I suppose Florida is not an organization known for good decisions either. I suspect he'll keep them in the toilet in a very expensive way. All that being said, Chicago won the Stanley Cup. And Edmonton didn't.
ReplyDeletei give Tallon a lot of credit for his part in the cup win for the Hawks. he even got a ring out of it did he not? and take a look at his first draft for the Panthers. outstanding picks! he's off to a very good start in Florida, my opinion.
ReplyDeleteslipper: I posted the rookies (just their numbers and a few comments the other day) at ON, and we'll begin the "Reasonable Expectations" series tonight here at Lowetide.
ReplyDeleteOnce they bury Huet in the minors then the Hawks are under the cap once and for all. But they could not pay Niemi 2.75 without dumping another key guy like Sharp.
ReplyDeleteSo Niemi was the guy to go.
And in terms of EV save % Turco's numbers were better than Niemi's behind a weaker team. In fact Niemi's EV save % was 31st or some such thing - this is from Kent Wilson btw, credit where credit is due.
Good move by the Hawks imo. I like Niemi but I think like the vast majority of the departed Hawks he's replaceable.
Frelbo:
ReplyDeleteBased on the comments you made, I'm guessing that you're not familiar with Dale Tallon as a GM or as a person.
Dale Tallon had a rough end with the overpaid UFA's and offer sheet fiasco, but he also presided over the entire build up to the championship.
Draft:
(1)Keith - 54th in 2002
(2)Seabrook - 14th in 2003
(3)Byfuglien - 245th in 2003
(4)Bolland - 32nd in 2004
(5)Brouwer - 214th in 2004
(6)Hjalmarsson - 108th in 2005
Trade:
(7)Sharp for a 3rd round pick and minor leaguer
(8)Versteeg for a minor leaguer
(9)Eager for a minor leaguer
(10)Ladd for Ruutu (who was talented but severely injury prone)
UFAs(Affordable):
(11)Niemi from Europe
(12)Madden
(13)Kopecky
---
13 pretty nice moves right there. I didn't include drafting Toews and Kane because those were easy decisions.
Certainly he had a great scouting staff, assistants, advisors, etc, but he surrounded himself with good people and the management group came up with gem after gem from late draft picks and exchanging AHLers for quality NHLers.
In addition, you may not be aware of the off-ice leadership that Tallon brought to the Hawks. That young team loved and respected him, and still do to this day. That can't be overstated. When Tallon's father died, the Hawks came to the wake in a show of support for a man whom they all deeply admired. Dale Tallon is a man of great character, and he will bring similar people to Florida to help him build a competitive team there.
Tallon did a terrific job of building the Hawks. He made mistakes which every GM does of course, his just seem to be a little more glaring. The Campbell and Huet contracts. The whole QO mailing fiasco.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't include the Hossa contract one bit. Buddy is one of the best players in the league and that cap hit is absolutely reasonable.
Peter, your list of aquisitions is interesting and a few of them are good points. Keith, Byfuglien, Versteeg and Sharp were bargains.
ReplyDeleteDale Tallon is a good person you say. Ok. Lots of us are. I was completely aware of those facts but not sure what that information has to do with some bad deals he signed. Makes a great Lifetime network movie though.
I still stand by my comments that some of the contracts he negotiated were completely debilitating to the organization.
And, again, I admit that he built a heck of a team.
But my lost point is that its analagous to buying a house you can't afford, running up your credit cards and then ultimately having everything repossessed or foreclosed upon.
But they won the cup.
Peter:
ReplyDeleteTallon only took over as Blackhawks GM in June of 2005. Therefore, he wasn't responsible for ANY of the picks you mentioned except for Hjarmalsson. Bob Pulford, who was Hawks GM from 2003-2005, was responsible for many of those exceptional picks and deserves arguably as much credit as Tallon for building that team.
Bob Pulford is the devil and deserves absolutely no credit at all.
ReplyDeleteHe may have made those picks but he and Wirtz Sr. destroyed the franchise. Burned it to the grounds and then pissed on the ashes.
If he were still in charge they'd have moved every single one of those picks for little return.
As LT would say - book it.
Tallon goes way back with the Hawks, late 1990's. And Bob Pulford was an idiot.
ReplyDeleteWhy would Buffalo sign Tim Kennedy and then a week later put him on waivers? Something is up.
ReplyDeleteEdmonton has first crack at picking him up. His cap hit is 1 mill. He a small forward who plays great at both ends. He can score too.
I think the Oilers want someone with size like Asham instead, but Kennedy is a great depth player for a good price. Do the Oilers pick him up?
LT:
ReplyDeleteI realize Tallon goes way back, but he wasn't "the man" when most of those picks were made.
Pardon my ignorance, but clearly I don't know enough about this Pulford character. I know about Wirtz Sr., but what was Pulford's role in the destruction of the Hawks? I think I'm in desperate need of a history lesson.
Pulford came on board with the Hawks in the mid seventies and was essentially Wirtz's right hand man until his death. When Rocky took over his first order of business was to get rid of Pully.
ReplyDeleteWhile Wirtz was the main source of the Hawks' woes over the years Pulford was his 'hockey man' and bears the most responsibility for the destruction of the franchise. Poor drafting, the movement of any player making any amount of money, the failure to augment a decent core in the 80s - all fall on Pulford.
The one point where he did not have control was when Mike Keenan came in. The HAwks promptly became a powerhouse at which point Pulford pushed Keenan out. Keenan went to the Rangers and won a Cup, the Hawks were torn apart by Pulford, piece by piece, going from a President's Trophy and finals' appearance to mediocrity in just a couple of years.
There you go.
Ruined the franchise.
Re: Buffalo
ReplyDeleteI think there is a limited number of times you can walk away from an arbitration award in a specified period. So if the player still gets under a million in arbitration, it might make more sense to buy him out than to walk away. (Kennedy went to arbitration right?).
Re: Niemi
1) (Scotty) Bowman won two Stanley Cups in Detroit (one as coach, one as an advisor) with Osgood in goal. Bowman also was in St. Louis during the Jacques Plante and Glenn Hall days of geezer goaltending. Also around for the Hasek and Joseph in Detroit, more geezer goaltending.
2) Niemi's agent is a fool for not seeing the bigger picture best interests of his client.
put either/all jdd and dd and nk in the minors. sign niemi now. are we really risking eff all at 2.75 for the guy who won the cup last year?
ReplyDeleteno.
Thanks Black Dog. If only schools taught history in concise and interesting (and somewhat slanted) tidbits like that.
ReplyDeleteCheers.
So Toews winning the Conn Smythe forces Chicago to downgrade from Niemi to Turco?
ReplyDeleteOuch.
Niemi is going to go for cheap, and the Oilers would be insane to not chase after him if they can get rid of the Bulin contract.
Problem is, the Oiler's have made it pretty clear they have no interest in actually competing next year. It's dem magical draft picks that will turn us into the next Columbus Blue Jackets!!!
Totally off topic but does anyone understand what Anaheim is doing? After the Wisniewski trade, they have five D under contract, only two of which have played more than 200 games and two who have played less than 50. So at best they have 3 actual NHL D.
ReplyDeleteAs I was writing this I found out that they signed Sutton, so that's four.
Shaft19 - lol, I know of what I speak, I loved the Hawks until Pulford and Wirtz killed that love.
ReplyDeleteSo maybe a little slanted. But its the truth. ;)
I think Niemi's agent did the best thing for him. He opened up the market for him after he's just won the cup. He's the flavour of the day!
ReplyDeleteI'm betting some team makes a multi-year contract offer where he gets the same or more than what he was awarded in arb. Of course it won't be Tambo III making the offer.
I also admire Bowman for having the balls to walk away. Niemi was very good and also average last year behind a the best team in the league.
"Dale Tallon is a good person you say. Ok. Lots of us are. I was completely aware of those facts but not sure what that information has to do with some bad deals he signed. Makes a great Lifetime network movie though."
ReplyDeleteThanks Frelbo. I'm glad that you gave it some thought and made an intelligible counter-argument. Allow me to sum up your point, and then reiterate and expand on my points.
Your point: Tallon overpaid for Campbell, Huet, and Hossa, harming the future of the franchise.
My point: Tallon made a number of great moves, including turning AHL castaways into high quality NHLers, which helped build one of the deepest teams since the lockout and led to a cup win.
And in defence of those big contracts, I don't think Campbell and Hossa are that overpaid. Strictly speaking in terms of cap hit,$5.25M for Hossa is pretty reasonable. He made $7.45M in Detroit the previous year, and no one thought he was overpaid. Campbell is certainly overpaid at $7.14M, but I don't think $4.64M would be unreasonable for his offensive production. So he's overpaid by $2.5M in my opinion. Huet I have no defence for, but his contract is also off the books for next year, cap wise.
The main reason the Blackhawks are in cap trouble is because all their talent turned out so well that everyone merited huge raises, something which no GM could have foreseen in the summer of 2008. Also, who knows if the Hawks would have won the cup without quality veterans like Hossa and Campbell. Sometimes we forget that they're both really good players just because they make so much money. Maybe they would have come up just short without those 2 in the lineup. I think most GM's would think Campbell was a bargain if he made Tomas Kaberle money ($4.25M). Just because he makes a few million more, all of a sudden he's a bad player.
Also, the argument I made about his great character has more implications for his new tenure in Florida, a retort to your "I'm surprised he found another job" comment. I'm not. Good people want to work for and with other good people. He'll attract quality managers, scouts, coaches, players, etc, and slowly but surely that team will get better.
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ReplyDeleteWhy would Buffalo sign Tim Kennedy and then a week later put him on waivers? Something is up.
ReplyDeleteThis one is easy and stated in the TSN articles etc. You cannot walk away from an arbitration award of less than 1.6 million. Kennedy elected for arbitration and was award 1 million which the Sabres were automatically forced to accept. This buyout is simply their only option to walk away from the player.
As for the Campbell, Huet, Hossa deals, the Hossa deal is understandable. Campbell and Huet deals are just horrid, however, there is some question as to how much input Tallon had in those big ticket free agent signings.
Havlat came out in no uncertain terms to state that he was willing to sign a very reasonable cap friendly contract in the neighborhood or less than what he took in Minnesota. The deal was all but closed with Tallon till the higher ups kiboshed it and mandated a Hossa signing instead. I see no reason for Havlat to make something like that up. Havlat spoke very highly of Tallon.
There are also a lot of rumours surrounding how the Bowman camp rose to power within the organization.
Take that for what you want, since none of us will ever know the real story behind the big ticket signings. I'm willing to give Tallon the benefit of the doubt so far considering what he's done in a short time in Florida. Then again maybe he did fall on his face and has learned from his mistakes.
Mirtle had a look at what he thinks the hawks will look like come opening night and it's hard not to pick the Dys as strong faves in the West.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteOk Peter. You win.
ReplyDeleteThe nice guy Tallon business model of signing that many multi-million dollar multi-year contracts to one team and giving everyone performance bonuses makes perfect sense. That way, after you win the Stanley cup you can only afford 16 players and stay under the salary cap.
But this is good since all the fans are really enjoying the garage sale of their players and the 16 players left on the team will get way more ice time.
You're right. Tallon is a genius. I'm sure Stan Bowman agrees right now.
Intelligible,
Frelbo
downgrade from Niemi to Turco?
ReplyDeleteGet real.
One guy in the Stars all-time leader in GP and Ws.
The other guy has played, what, 37 NHL games, plus a drive to the Cup behind an absolutey powerhouse team that everyone expected to win, even with Mickey fkn Mouse in net.
Jeebus, talk about end bias.