The most shocking event for me this summer (as a hockey fan) came on draft day. Early in the tsn broadcast, Darren Dreger reported from the draft floor that Steve Tambellini was making every effort to trade for the 2nd overall pick and Tyler Seguin.
Dreger: "Steve Tambellini doing everything within his power to intrigue Peter Chiarelli of the Boston Bruins into considering moving the second pick overall. The latest attempt was made 12-15 minutes ago, when Tambellini and Chiarelli were in conversation one more time. Some of the names being speculated about include Ales Hemsky, Jordan Eberle..."
Dreger's naming Hemsky was a jolt, like thunderclap on a sunny day. The Edmonton Oilers, lacking any semblance of a present day hockey club, were willing to deal Hemsky (and apparently others) for Tyler Seguin. That's not a rebuild, that's scorched earth.
It adds one more item of evidence to what Hemsky fans (like myself) must come to grips with: the Oilers (apparently) can't believe their own blind dumb luck in getting a lottery player at #13 in 2001. Hemsky's sublime skills (and exceptional contract) have been obscured by years in the second division and (most recently) injury.
Selling low on Ales Hemsky would have been a new nadir for the current Edmonton Oilers management group. He turns 27 in 10 days, he is not burned out and he most certainly is capable of being a central part of any offense.
•Boxcars: 22gp, 7-15-22
•Shots: 57
•Plus Minus: +7
•Corsi (Rel): 23.8 (1st but DNQ)
•GF/GA ON: 17-10
•5x5/60: 2.85 (1st but DNQ)
•5x4/60: 4.71 (3rd but DNQ)
•Quality of Competition: 8th F (DNQ)
•Quality of Teammates: 2nd F (DNQ)
•FO Percentage: 100% in 1 FO
•Cap Hit: $4.1M
- Why do you like him so much? Hemsky is a top notch puck carrier who can reach top speed in a few quick strides. He handles the puck with poise and confidence and is such a good stick handler he's often double teamed. He has been extremely consistent over the last several years despite playing for a middling team. Coach MacT (early on) decided to develop Hemsky as a tough minutes player and Oilers fans have been rewarded with a quality player who should be an outscorer for years to come. Ales Hemsky is a man.
- What do this year's numbers tell us? He got hurt, nothing more or less. He was on track for another fine season (maybe better than usual) and the day they shut him down the music died. Nuff said.
- How could these numbers be better? Health is a concern with this player. No matter the talent level, the man needs to stay in the lineup for more than 22 games. Hemsky is the most physical of Edmonton's pure skill wingers (by a furlong) and much of his offense comes from driving into high traffic areas and forcing the play. He's from the Guy Lafleur family, all motion and flow and instinct and reaction. It is beautiful to watch but a challenge because he's going to take more hits than a perimeter player.
- Has Penner passed him? I don't think so, but the numbers (and health) are changing the equation. Hemsky healthy>Penner, but can the team count on him for 75 games? Then again, maybe it is just the Moreau/Jacques factor as outlined wonderfully by poster Quain here. When playing with all other Oilers, Hemsky's effectiveness drives back to impact levels. Buddy's a beauty.
- Are you serious about the trade talk? Darren Dreger isn't some yob in Philadelphia typing away on a laptop purchased $20 bucks at a time by the descendants of PT Barnum. Dreger (and tsn) are so respected that when they shout out a name the entire nation adopts it as gospel. That may be giving them too much credit, but then again their track record is without equal in this area. It is especially disappointing when taking into account media sources who were suggesting that Hemsky was looking forward to the new direction. Here's hoping that Hemsky signs in Edmonton and can serve as both a Bangalore torpedo and as an example of the kind of commitment required to survive in the NHL.
- What about playing with Horcoff? I think it is the ideal combination, certainly more important than Penner on LW. Horcoff is Hemsky's Lemaire, playing high until the zone is gained and doing the heavy work when needed. I don't think there is anyone on the Oilers roster who can match their chemistry and there's really no need to split them up.
- Is this injury thing going to be chronic? You never know. He's had some shoulder problems previously (missed 8 games in December '06, right shoulder; same problem caused 8 more games in March '07) but this is the first left shoulder injury that caused him to miss games (that I can find). I'm tempted to say he'll be fine once the Oilers trade for Regehr and Boogard, but the truth is that 83 plays the game with abandon and there are going to be injuries in the future. I guess the bottom line is that all players are a risk and Hemsky's injury history is already pretty long for his age. It is a concern.
- Will they continue to play him against the toughs? I think so. The Oilers don't have a Pisani anymore, and a guy like Brule won't be as able as 83 on a strong line. Renney usually finds ways for players to succeed, and I can't see any other RW's ready to take on that kind of load at this point in time. Horcoff-Penner-Hemsky is my bet for opening night.
- Penner aside, which winger would be the best option for Hemmer? It might be Hall or Pääjärvi I'm not sure. If one of the rookies spends an extended period on a Hemsky line, their chances of being a strong ROY candidate rise substantially.
- What's the best thing about Ales Hemsky? He makes his team better, he is a man who can endure pain and make a play, he is a winner.
- Maybe they should make him captain? I'll just be happy if they don't trade him.
By The Numbers
•06-07 5x5 per 60m: 2.09
•07-08 5x5 per 60m: 2.36
•08-09 5x5 per 60m: 2.08
•09-10 5x5 per 60m: 2.85
By The Numbers
•06-07 5x4 per 60m: 5.45
•07-08 5x4 per 60m: 5.93
•08-09 5x4 per 60m: 5.00
•09-10 5x4 per 60m: 4.71
Predictions Past 2009-10: 75gp, 24-66-90 (1.20 per game)
Performance in 2009-10: 22gp, 7-15-22 (1.00 per game)
Prediction for 2010-11: 60gp, 18-48-66 (1.10 per game)
Terrific player, injuries a concern
I'd be okay with keeping Hemsky long-term and trading Penner in his final year, while his stock is still high.
ReplyDeletewe need hemksy to take the lime light off of the rookies. if others send thier best out when he's on the ice it creates time and space for our rookies to grow. Success for our team is incumbant on both he and penner being able to take on the toughs and leave the dregs of the other teams to the rooks.
ReplyDeleteHemsky is my favorite player in the NHL. I love his flash. I love his grit. I love his low-key personality. I love the fact that he's still underrated and flies under the radar (especially in my fantasy NHL league..)
ReplyDeleteReally hope he:
(1) Stays healthy this year.
(2) Remains an Oiler longterm.
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ReplyDeleteI don't know if I agree that moving Hemsky for Seguin would have been selling low.
ReplyDeleteWhat makes you think 2 years of Hemsky is worth more than 7 years of Seguin LT?
as an aussie, who stumbled upon this wonderful game, post lockout, with no real idea how it worked, i looked for the players that stood out for entertainment value. Hemsky the moment i first saw a game at the Jasper brew pub, was my favourite. speed showy and awseome to watch. for this reason i hope the oilers keep him, such a dynamic playmaker and sublime to watch. would love to see him with hall or mps on the opposite wing and see what they could do.
ReplyDeletePutting Hall w/Hemsky I think would drive Hall's boxcars significantly. The one thing Hemsky has not had since he's been here is a pure scorer to play off.
ReplyDeleteHall does that and opens space for him (vice-versa too). With Horcoff centering you arguably have a top line and the makings of a 2nd line that can also do damage Penner+Gagner+Brule/MPS/Eberle.
Might make watching this team a lot more fun this winter.
Only way I see them trading him though is if they don't think they can re-sign. And this is another reason I think he gets paired with the designated crown jewel (give him the very best in the system and let the two take this team back up the ladder).
speeds: I'd argue that Hemsky is young enough to be both mentor and contributor to the young guns.
ReplyDeleteI also think the Oilers should be able to sign him longer term. If we had evidence (and I mean overwhelming evidence) 83 didn't want to stay then the idea of dealing Hemsky (plus Eberle and whatever else) becomes reasonable.
But we don't know that.
LT: What if Hemsky wants out? Any chance he's told his agent he wants a fresh start and a better contract?
ReplyDeleteOn the hush of course. Not publicly like Souray or that Infedel CFP.
maybe?
Yeah Seguin is just worth a fortune. I'd rather have him on a rebuilding team than all but a handful of players who are already in their prime: Crosby, Ovechkin, etc. Hemsky isn't on that list.
ReplyDeleteNonetheless, Hemsky likely has 6 or so good years left and the Oilers seem to have a chance to keep him, hopefully without a huge overpay. So he's the next best thing to either a Hall/Seguin blue chipper in a rebuild.
Did Renney say something about playing Horcoff-Penner-Hemsky together? I'm just wondering why you figure he'd do this when the two previous coaches shyed away from it.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to see it too but it looks like we won't have the depth for it once again.
If Hemsky cannot stay healthy this year I think that might tip the scales in favour of Penner if only one can be retained. Personally I'd like to keep both though. Has Penner ever been injured? The guy's a beast.
ReplyDeletei'd be curious to see what Hemmer can do with different linemates, like some of the kids perhaps? instead of the same old only sometimes successful Penner/Horc/Hemmer.
ReplyDeleteLT
ReplyDeleteTime to go far far out on the limb. In 2010-11 Ales Hemsky finally puts it all together and plays 78 games and throws up a 27 g 66 a 93 point season. If that happens the Oilers make the playoffs and we have a helluva dilemma do we sign him for Horcoffesque money?
I don't like to post too often.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I cannot stand by and let the "nay-sayers" say these things about a sublime hockey talent that has not ever been afforded a serious opportunity to maximize his potential! On a reasonable team, he would be a superstar of significant proportions.
Instead, he practices his craft in a really difficult place for success. And, the Edmonton fans who by and large are the best and yet the most critical (as in analysis) in this league, cannot properly appreciate what he brings to this team!
Sorry about the rant, but if others can say that a trade for Seguin (really an unknown quantity) for a supreme talent like Hemsky is a good thing, I think that some one needs to step up and say some thing in his defense.
OTOH, I think that this year:
Hall-Horcoff-Hemsky
Penner-Gagner-Eberle
MPS-Fraser-Omark
Cogs-Vet Ctr.-Stortini
are going to rip it up.
Go Oil!!!!
Hall - Horcoff - Hemsky
ReplyDeletePenner - Gagner - Eberle
There's your top 6.
Somehow convince MPS to stay in the AHL, and grab the lottery ticket again in June.
Delaying MPS a year would be huge. Oilers aren't making the playoffs. I don't think they have the guts to send Hall back to junior (and I'm not sure he'd do much there either), but I do think they could sell MPS on spending a year in the AHL to "learn the North American game."
Hall is also a guy who would, at worst, be a lot of fun to watch with Hemsky. That tap in pass he must have hit 94 for 10 times in 05-06 on a 2 on 1 would be back in style with Halls speed and finish.
Contractual issues should (RFA, UFA status) have nothing to do with how you handle a prospect. Let him devellop. Teams often have major impact on a player's development, and how they will negotiate theyr contracts when they reach certain status'. Beeing greedy won't lead us anywhere.
ReplyDelete(Anyway we don't even know if the actual system will still be on his feet when they reach that age)
instead of the same old only sometimes successful Penner/Horc/Hemmer.
ReplyDeleteDo you have any basis for saying that Horpensky is "only sometimes successful"? To my recollection, they've been pretty consistent.
35-67-102.
ReplyDeleteAnd we cruise into the playoffs with a ROTY, a 40-goal Penner, and a surprisingly good goaltender.
Just sayin...
Perry K:
ReplyDeleteIt's not a matter of underselling Hemsky, it just has to do with maximizing the future while having relatively little impact on the playoff chances in the next year or two when the Oilers are seemingly "rebuilding" anyways.
What's the point of using keeping Hemsky, having him use one of his last two contracted years while the team finishes 13th in the West, say 5th-7th last in the NHL, if you could have traded him for Seguin, finished dead last in the West and bottom 2-3 in the NHL?
Status of roster next summer
(1) Keep Hemsky scenario:
- Hemsky signed for one more year @ 4.1 cap hit, then UFA
- 5th-7th OV pick in 2011
(2) Trade Hemsky scenario:
- Seguin signed for two or three more years @ 3.75 cap hit, then RFA
- 1st-3rd OV pick in 2011
The math changes if you know, or have an idea, what Hemsky wants to do starting next summer, but that's information to which we don't have access. Obviously if he's willing to sign another 6 year 24 mil deal that has positive value for the Oilers. Likewise, if you know with certainty he's going UFA on July 1, 2012, that can't help his value. How much more specific can we get?
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ReplyDeleteFBV:
ReplyDeleteWhile I don't agree that "Contractual issues should (RFA, UFA status) have nothing to do with how you handle a prospect.", I do kind of think there's something to what you're saying, in that, depending how EDM decides to develop Hall, it could result in significant enough differences to his counting stats to affect his pay on a post ELC deal.
That said, I don't think it's impossible to make a developmental argument for sending Hall back to junior, particularly if you send him back to play C for a year in the OHL.
i'd be curious to see what Hemmer can do with different linemates, like some of the kids perhaps? instead of the same old only sometimes successful Penner/Horc/Hemmer.
ReplyDeleteWhen together, they are the 3rd most productive goal-scoring line in the western conference.
Trade away Hemsky and overnight this team becomes the Columbus Blue Jackets.
ReplyDeleteGood young players need to learn how the game is played from good older players, otherwise they don't develop and the franchise goes into the twilight zone.
Nobody "wants" to trade Hemsky. The issue is his willingness to resign. If you look at it from his point of view: multiple coaching changes, losing year after year, dissent and trouble in the locker room, playing in a fishbowl canadian city.
ReplyDeleteUnless something reallys special starts happening in the next year or two, he is gone.
If that is your starting point, then the next logical step is how to maximize value for moving him.
If Renney's time with the NYR showed anything, Hemsky's in a for a banner year if he stays healthy. With the way Renney played Jagr you'll think Hemsky's minutes will be steady. And while he might not be sheltered as much, he'll be playing almost entire powerplays =).
ReplyDeleteOf the young rookies, I think Eberle may benefit the most from playing with Hemsky. He's not as fleet of foot which is a problem, but he's a pure scorer that gets into those spots to score goals. If Hemsky had a consistent shooter/scorer for those sublime passes then lookout. I can only imagine what Hemsky could do with his very own Brett Hull or Brendan Shanahan.
"I can only imagine what Hemsky could do with his very own Brett Hull or Brendan Shanahan."
ReplyDeleteAnd according to Lowetide, he's already got his Jacques Lemaire :)
@uni....exactly. this is what a few other posters should think about. think outside the box a bit. what could Hemmer do playing with say Hall and Eberle? aren't you curious? i am!
ReplyDeleteWhat if all the "Penner at C" buzz we're hearing lately turns into a Hall-Penner-Hemmer 1st line?
ReplyDeleteThe combined potential for greatness and disaster would be pretty fun to watch.
Chances with/without Hemsky
ReplyDeleteI only ran this one for the games before Hemsky was injured, so it doesn't cover a lot of time and, thus, not many players with enough events to register (I stretched and included Brule/Sully despite those samples being beyond tiny.) But, the conclusion is clear, if he's not playing with JFJ he's pretty good at hockey.
And, just an extra reminder of how horrible JFJ is:
22-10-83: 19 CF, 29 CA, 39.6%
27-10-83: 42 CF, 32 CA, 56.8%
He kills everything he touches!
the one thing i keep hearing from other posters on other boards is they often wonder why Hemmer can't get 80+ points per season. i think he can as well, i don't think we've seen the best Hemmer can be and i don't believe we will see his best with Horc and Penner on his line. if we ever want to sign this guy to another contract, if he stays, then i want to see how good he can REALLY be before we fork over more money. my opinion.
ReplyDeletei think he can as well, i don't think we've seen the best Hemmer can be and i don't believe we will see his best with Horc and Penner on his line.
ReplyDeleteSo now, having been shown wrong with "only sometimes successful", you're shifting the goalposts to "not the best he can be", still avoiding evidence like the plague. Got it.
let's pretend for a second that our D isn't as thin as it is or that it won't drive results and so we're just talking forwards.
ReplyDeleteeverything has to begin and end with the combos of 10-83 and 27-89.
From there I'd say that two of Hall-Eberle-MPS round out those two tough min lines and then the other players with 13-67 on the third line. I'm not sure what the reaction was here on the dandy fucking deal Yzerman got Moore to sign but he was my last hope for a real top nine outscoring pivot so I'm apt to believe that we see is what we're gonna get.
So two of the kids get an early education in tough min duties -- albeit helped out my real NHLers -- and the other guy, at least at home, gets lesser quality linemates but faces lesser comp.
@Steve...lol
ReplyDeleteI think Hall or MPS would be great on the top line. I just have question marks about who to center it. Hall Gagner Hemsky strikes me as a bit too much of a mix of inexperience (Hall+Gagner) and poor defense (Hemsky+Gagner). But man would that make for a good PP line. Hopefully we see that some this year.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I know you are against Penner at center, and I can understand that, but if he could handle the responsibility and not be too overly nerfed offensively, Hall Penner Hemsky would be a decent mixture of everything. Perhaps that is another powerplay consideration, leaving a second set of MPS-Gagner-Eberle (although those guys might need a better finisher).
Really, I lost a lot of respect for Tambellini when he offered up Hemsky AND Eberle for Seguin (oh thank god Chiarelli is apparently oblivious about the West).
But I'm interested to see what kind of chemistry can brew between the various talented components on this team... will MPS maybe fly with Hemsky? Will Hall and Eberle have magic together? How about MPS and Eberle...?
Should be an exciting season, if we can get in the offensive zone.
so the "evidence" i'm "avoiding" (LOL) suggests the Penner/Horc/Hemmer line is not "sometimes" successful, then it's what? always successful? mostly then? as far as "shifting goalposts" goes, the basis of my arguement is, and other posters agree, is that if Hemmer is part of a line that was 3rd in goal scoring in the conference when together, what can he do playing with Hall and Eberle for example? can he do more than 20 goals and 70points? let's take a chance an d find out how talented this guy REALLY is. some here don't want to take chances, but after last years garbage season, i for one at least will be open minded enough to explore all line combinations and hopefully get the best from as many players as possible.
ReplyDeleteReally, I lost a lot of respect for Tambellini when he offered up Hemsky AND Eberle for Seguin
ReplyDeleteI can't see how that could be possible
I can't see how that could be possible
ReplyDeleteI had a little bit of respect for him when he managed to show up at the draft with dressed properly...
We are all jumping to conclusions. If you re-read the original quote, it says Hemsky and Eberle were discussed, it does NOT say Tambellini offered them up. More likely, Boston asked for these players and was dismissed out of hand. No one would be dumb enough to take a deal like that.
ReplyDeleteFuck Boston and it's allegedly ridiculous demands.
ReplyDeleteOilers took Hall, the hands down most talented Canadian player since Crosby.
Oh of course Seguin "might" turn out better. Riiight.
LT:
ReplyDeleteI'm sure many of the arguments you made in regards to Hemsky were also made by Florida fans in regards to JBo.
A smart GM doesn't just look at this year but two or three years down the road.
Edmonton will probably finish 12th-15th in the conference this year but in 2011/2012 there's a very good chance Edmonton will be a bubble team 5-8 points out of the playoffs around the trade deadline with both Hemsky and Penner soon to be UFA's.
I would guess the majority of fans would be split on whether to trade him or not but if you would then it becomes about maximizing value.
You can get Nilsson's and Plante's at the deadline again or you can package him with Eberle and get the center that this club has been missing for years.
Can't blame him for trying.
hunter - He's hands down better than Tavares?
ReplyDeleteOr Jonathan Toews? Or Steven Stamkos? He might be better than any of these players in the end, but to say that right now is downright ridiculous. Get a hold of your expectations before you're wildly disappointed. He hasn't even played a single NHL game and you're already proclaiming him the best since Crosby. That's the kind of hockey insight I expect from the drunks I talk to when I grab a donair from the Queen beside Oil City at 2AM.
ReplyDeleteRibs/anonymous:
ReplyDeleteI'm a hockey fan, not an expert. Whether or not the Oilers make the playoffs of blow makes zero difference to my life other than...well, whatever.
As far as I can perceive, Hall is hands down the best Canadian to emerge since Crosby. Now Toews makes me nervous, but since I'm already designated a moron, I'll stick to my guns vis a vis Hall.
A few more drinks and I'll be comparing him to Gordie Howe...LOL
hehe, okay then.
ReplyDeleteWe are all jumping to conclusions. If you re-read the original quote, it says Hemsky and Eberle were discussed, it does NOT say Tambellini offered them up. More likely, Boston asked for these players and was dismissed out of hand. No one would be dumb enough to take a deal like that.
ReplyDeleteFrom what I recall, the media guys in the know were saying that Eberle and Hemsky WERE offered at the time. It was mentioned during the draft actually, and I remember some tweets from the big media guys about it.
I don't think it was Chiarelli asking about those players. I think we offered, and he shot it down.
Trade away Hemsky and overnight this team becomes the Columbus Blue Jackets.
ReplyDeleteSo you are saying the Oilers would get better?
Since Seguin's come up here, I'd like to point out that Seguin will have a much softer landing than Hall, and that we'll need to consider his results in the appropriate context when the inevitable comparisons begin.
ReplyDeleteWith the way Renney played Jagr you'll think Hemsky's minutes will be steady. And while he might not be sheltered as much, he'll be playing almost entire powerplays =).
Or as I call it, "What MacTavish should've fucking done four years ago." Seriously, we're what, two years removed from him putting up the second-best per-60 on the PP in the NHL? I'm comfortable with running him into the ice on the PP and sitting him a couple of extra shifts at EV.
I'm not sure what the reaction was here on the dandy fucking deal Yzerman got Moore to sign but he was my last hope for a real top nine outscoring pivot so I'm apt to believe that we see is what we're gonna get.
Mine was a sigh and a facepalm, likely the same as yours.
So you are saying the Oilers would get better?
ReplyDeleteThe Oilers without Hemsky for 3/4 of the year were worse than the Jackets. To be clear.
I've never been comfortable with this Renney-Jagr/Renney-Hemsky correlation. Jagr is a physical beast who can slow the game down enough that he can munch the mondo minutes. His size and strength give him a lot of extra time to play with the puck.
ReplyDeleteHemsky doesn't have that size and hasn't learned to slow down the play some other way so he tends to tire quickly. I'm not sure he's capable of playing more many more minutes per game than he has been playing.
Racki: From what I recall, the media guys in the know were saying that Eberle and Hemsky WERE offered at the time. It was mentioned during the draft actually, and I remember some tweets from the big media guys about it.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it was Chiarelli asking about those players. I think we offered, and he shot it down.
Good day.
Memory is a funny/fuzzy thing, Racki, because I recall watching the pre-draft on TSN. I think it was Ryan Rishaug who had a quick chat on the draft floor with Chiarelli who commented on how hard Tambellini had been pushing to acquire the #2. Rishaug asked if names like Hemsky and Eberle were part of the conversation and Chiarelli stated that no specific names had been mentioned, but he would have expected players of that caliber IF he had been interested in trading away the #2.
Hemsky and Eberle + for Seguin was nothing more than media speculation.
L8r
Louise
Louise - as you know reason and thoughtful discussion are not welcome on the Internet, not sure why you feel it necessary to bring it here
ReplyDelete;)
Louise:
ReplyDeleteFound some more info on this. Source: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/globe-on-hockey/draft-day-rumblings/article1617976/
It seems the Edmonton Oilers are still interested in the second overall pick, and the chance to pair Taylor Hall with Tyler Seguin. One rumour picked up by the Edmonton media on Thursday was that GM Steve Tambellini offered Boston winger Ales Hemsky and prospect Jordan Eberle -- Canada’s world-junior hero two years running -- for the No. 2 pick. There is also some talk about the Bruins moving centre Marc Savard and goaltender Tim Thomas. GM Peter Chiarelli has acknowledged that he needs a defenceman, but that was before he re-signed Johnny Boychuk.
Apparently my details were fuzzy as to the location/date it happened, but as you can see above, the media apparently picked up on this.
Now I hate to use this cheap out as an argument, but I never ever take what a GM says in an interview at face value. I'm not sure how the Edmonton media picked up on something and if that was even true, but I'm not so sure that Chiarelli would necessarily be honest about their dealings either (especially after Tambellini was angered about Smid/Penner/Cogliano's names coming up in Heatley rumors).
Really, there's not enough here to say that Tambellini did or didn't offer Hemsky and/or Eberle. But I just feel if he did, I'm pretty happy that deal was rejected.
And really, on the note of Chiarelli saying "no names were mentioned", I kind of doubt that anyways. I don't really think Tambellini would call up Chiarelli and say "we want the #2 pick" and just hang up the phone without an offer when Chiarelli says "not interested". So you can see why I don't take his any GMs interview comments at face value. Comments such as "MacT isn't going anywhere" (Katz) happen often enough.
Just to give an idea of where Edmonton fans' loyalties lie, when they ran Rishaug's segment at Rexall during the draft, when he said Hemsky there was silence but as soon as he said Eberle there was quite a lot of booing. Of course Eberle was seated on the stage at the time which no doubt influenced some of that reaction. But until Eberle actually plays a game here and starts doing normal things like cough the puck or whatever, he can do no wrong. Or as I said to my pal at the time, they see Eberle as part of the next wave and Hemsky as part of the last one.
ReplyDeleteOr as I call it, "What MacTavish should've fucking done four years ago."
ReplyDeleteDoogie, when MacT had real options on this team Hemsky was loaded with PP time. Almost 30% of his total icetime in 05-06 was on the PP.
When you strip away quality vets like the Oilers did, you lose options. The Oilers couldn't afford to not put Hemsky on the ice at EV... he was the best winger option and there was a huge dropoff to number 2.
Oilers took Hall, the hands down most talented Canadian player since Crosby.
ReplyDeleteStamkos and Tavares both have dibs on that. If you want to talk about Hall's goalscoring, both of these guys take him back to the woodshed and beat the tar out of him.
When you strip away quality vets like the Oilers did, you lose options. The Oilers couldn't afford to not put Hemsky on the ice at EV... he was the best winger option and there was a huge dropoff to number 2.
ReplyDeleteWhile this is true, it also seems to me that when you have someone who's that productive on the PP, it might be worth sticking him out there for a few two-minute PPs and holding your breath with his replacement for a shift or two at EV. I mean, the guy's never played as much as 4:00/60 on the PP; as good as he is at EV, isn't that a waste of his talent 5v4?
Stamkos and Tavares both have dibs on that. If you want to talk about Hall's goalscoring, both of these guys take him back to the woodshed and beat the tar out of him.
ReplyDeleteI think even Seguin had better goal-scoring boxcars (for what they're worth) than Hall.
LOL! @ flames tribute jersey for Heritage Classic
ReplyDelete@Dug...
ReplyDeleteThe problem with putting Hemsky with two rooks is out-scoring. Sure they may surpass the 3rd most productive line in history in sheer boxcars, but when they allow 30 more goals against per season than they score, those boxcars become "pointless".
As for the Hall on Hemsky's line thing many have been talking about...
I think there's a good chance he ends up there at some point in the season, but I highly doubt he starts the season there if Renney is gonna go PvP. Hall will need to show some signs of not being a haemophiliac liability first.
And to tell you the truth, Eberle might actually be a better choice. Hall, Horc and Hemmer are all puck-carriers who can drive the play north. I suspect we don't have enough of those guys on the team to put 3 on the same line. And certainly the bottom four Dmen are not going to help much in this regard.
And if Renney goes PvP at EVs, I can't see Hemmer getting outrageous PP time. The roster is too damn thin and there are offensive rookies to consider. Face-offs on the PP are going to be an issue. That's where we're likely to see Penner line up at C, in my opinion.
Racki: "... One rumour picked up by the Edmonton media..."
ReplyDeleteThis is what you are basing your opinion on? Really??? I can't fathom forming an opinion on so little information. All I get from what you quoted is unanswered questions, starting with...
The source...
Who had access to the conversations between these two GMs, and would be fine revealing the content of their bosses' private discussions for media to pick up on?
Without the answer to this question, the only other one worth asking is... What percentage of hockey trade rumours come true? The answer should give you an idea of how much to trust each of these rumours.
It certainly doesn't take a member of Mensa to figure out which Oilers players have value and would fit in Boston's line-up.
I've always said of good GMs... "the devil is in what they don't say". They only reveal what they believe to be innocuous. If Chiarelli had been offered the package rumoured, he would have spun words to avoid answering the question. Instead, he said no names were mentioned, as is often the case in early inquiries about an asset. If there was no potential of a trade to be made from his view, there was no reason to clarify the pieces involved.
...
Hey, Pat and Bruce.
Hope you and yours are healthy and happy.
Stamkos and Tavares both have dibs on that. If you want to talk about Hall's goalscoring, both of these guys take him back to the woodshed and beat the tar out of him.
ReplyDeleteI think Mr. Doughty may also have something to say about this argument at some point, as would Mr. Toews, about "most talented Canadian junior since Sid the Kid".
Until we actually see Hall in the NHL, we need to temper our expectations. If he pans out better than Stamkos and Tavares, we'll all be doing backflips, and rightfully so. Until then....
You too Louise, hope you are having a great summer.
ReplyDeleteLouise:
ReplyDeleteI'm not exactly sure what your argument is, really....
Who was the source of the rumor, as in which media guy said it? If that's what you're asking, it's right in Lowetide's post...? (Darren Dreger, for one)
If you're asking where did HE hear it from... how often do we hear any direct source from any rumor? Generally, the media throws out a rumor without naming specifics as to where the rumor came from.
But really, I'm not sure where you're going with this. I'm not going to fact check everything TSN says. They get it right, quite often. If it came from Eklund, I could understand disbelief in the rumor, but coming from TSN, there is a decent chance the rumor holds water.
Really though, my point is simply that if Eberle and Hemsky were offered for pick #2, I'm seriously disappointed.
I haven't quite figured out what exactly in my posts it was that you seem to have taken exception to and what the basis of the "I can't fathom forming an opinion on so little information" comment of yours is.
Racki.
ReplyDeleteMy point is, you don't have enough information to be so damm sure of yourself. Aligning your opinion with rumours, no matter which media outlets repeat them, and/or using them to corroborate your opinion doesn't say much about your ability to think for yourself.
Good gawd, man. You are veritably spewing your serious disappointment about something you believe to have happened because some media pundit relayed a rumour.
Think about this for a minute. Some media guy needing to fill space and/or airtime grabs some low hanging fruit the ever present rumours. The next thing you know, they're repeated everywhere, including our host's blog. fyi - TSN didn't take some oath that they will only report the true rumours. They do not fact check them.
Many of us may explore the verity of the rumours by using our deductive skills. Most don't take very long to debunk. Then there are those who seemingly buy-in to everything they read, see and hear, regardless of the reported source or lack thereof.
This rumour has very little chance of having any truth to it as the only people who could know what was discussed between GMs would have had to be present during their conversations. The odds of private discussions between GMs being leaked are slim to none.
That said, rumours that might be leaked by player agents; things like free agent signings, players asked to waive NTCs/NMCs, a trade is imminent, etc; these have a good chance of having some truth to them.
And, one last bit of info for you. GMs don't call each other and say ~"I'll give you X, Y & Z for W." They regularly shmooze, and eventually ask something like, "Would you consider moving W?", which could lead to, "What would it take for you to move W?"
Very few trades are made quickly, with some taking many months to complete. Unless a GM is looking to divest himself of a player, his name won't come up till negotiations get serious.
Chiarelli wasn't serious about moving the #2. If he was, he certainly had better options than dealing with the Oilers.
Thanks, Louise. Meant to leave a hello in my earlier comment. Hope you're well.
ReplyDeleteHemsky for Seguin... I think this was only entertained because Hemsky must truly have a bad attitude about the Oilers at the moment - perhaps worse than he has let on with his trade comments. Hemsky is pivotal, though. I hope he sees and seizes on the opportunities that the young guys are bringing to the team and decides to be a career Oiler.
ReplyDelete