Word this morning that Sheldon Souray has cleared waivers. The Oilers placed him on waivers in the hopes that someone would grab him, but it was a long shot. As the summer rolls along and fewer UFA, RFA and trade options are available to teams Souray should become more attractive.I think Dallas is a good option. They don't seem to know what they're doing, Charlie Huddy (a Stars coach) definitely "saw him good" and Dallas has been shopping Mike Ribeiro and his $5M contract this summer.
My name is Ozymandius....
ReplyDeleteI loved "Rock Me Ozymandius."
ReplyDeleteI am SO sorry. :-)
Yeah he had a good hit with "Crazy Train"...
ReplyDeleteput this in the Giroux thread, but makes more sense here:
ReplyDeleteif no one takes souray this summer, i think the oilers are going to hit a big bump in the rebuild. he delays everything.
he takes up a big chunk of cap space that is going to be needed soon, if not immediately, to acquire key players over the next couple of years.
i'm not sure he's tradeable next year either. even before his injuries last year he seemed to have lost a lot of foot speed and his shot wasn't particularly potent compared to seasons previous. my hunch is that he won't bounce back next year, now that he's even more banged up. his wrist might very well be completely shot [multiple injuries] and i think forwards will keep getting the drop on him as he continues to slow.
just a bad, bad situation. hoping he proves me wrong, but he didn't look great last year even when healthy which is cause for concern if we need him to "build value" next year.
The problem with Souray is that he ripped the management. There's no way to undo what has been done, and if the Oilers take him back it means they're porridge.
ReplyDeleteYou can't let Sheldon Souray influence Taylor Hall based on what he said about the management team. If you're Kevin Lowe, you must get this done over the summer.
Which means Steve Tambellini has to do everything to make it so.
This should humbling to Souray anyway you look at it.
ReplyDeletewhat can tambellini do though?
ReplyDeletei imagine a lot of teams are looking at an injury history which has given him only 3 meaningful seasons of the last 5, poor play while healthy last year, bad attitude and monster cap hit.
is there even any player we can take back in trade that is such a confluence of suck?
he isn't just overpaid. he's currently an overpaid, broken, poor performing player with a history of publicly blaming management.
unless tambellini is some kind of wizard, i don't see how he's going to sell other teams on this guy.
I wouldn't mind Souray staying. Once you're on waivers, your value is already negligible, but some decent numbers and a dimishing cap hit will only see his value increase.
ReplyDeleteStill, the "ifs" are pretty big:
If Souray had problems with OTC / KLowe and not Tambo / Renney... if he comes back and puts his heart into it...
.. and he's also turning 34, so it isn't like his best years are ahead of him either.
ReplyDeleteso lets say he's traded for a similarly overpaid, underperforming contract. we might still have to throw in an asset [cogliano?] to make it worth the other team's while for all the age, injury, character baggage souray brings along with him.
please, someone, correct me if i'm wrong about this.
As per TSN's Rishaug:
ReplyDeleteAHL depth is a major priority.
Boy, does that sound pleasant.
Send him to OKC, tell him he doesn't have to report. No cap hit, no bad influence, and no messing around.
ReplyDelete@striatic
ReplyDeletei disagree that this destroys the whole rebuild. let's say that we don't resign hemm'r, penner and by some miracle, souray is still here. that's a lot of trade deadline items that will yield huge dividends, right at the time that we're going to need actual "fill in parts" around the kids and right when they're all needing money.
he'll get moved and the above won't happen, but souray, even playing a year, does nothing to our "rebuild" other than possibly helping us finish a little higher next year. we'll have cap room galore the next couple of years, so that's a non-issue, as well.
"If Souray had problems with OTC / KLowe and not Tambo / Renney..."
ReplyDeleteno such luck. Souray specifically called out Tambellini in his public rant last year.
he wanted the GM to 'call him more' regarding his injury, and specifically targeted ST in his complaints.
KLowe was the guy who signed Souray to that fat contract in the first place and Lowe has said many good things about Souray in the past.
so if anything, the Ascendance of Tambo 3.0 makes the situation more awkward, not less.
the only concern, really, is the locker room (hall) issue, which LT touched on.
ReplyDeleteLT - If Souray was wrong about management I'd agree, but he wasn't.
ReplyDeleteBy all accounts, Souray is not a poison in the locker room (unlike management's boy Moreau was).
I think it would go a long way in employee relations for the Oilers to grow up and be professional and mend fences (if they have to) instead of being the insecure, arrogant, volatile children they have in the past.
I am tired of the way the Oilers shovel shit onto the players that don't work out here. Its never management's fault. Its always the players' fault. The local media supports it and the fan's parrot it.
Management had the ass-kicking that Souray gave them coming. Souray had the ass-kicking that he just got from the other GM's coming too.
Karma's a bitch.
Let's hope both parties get help from another team solving this problem, but real organizations can live with criticism.
Its not the end of the world if he has to stay.
We're porridge if we put him on re-entry waivers just to be rid of him.
"i disagree that this destroys the whole rebuild."
ReplyDeletei'm not saying it destroys the rebuild. more like it puts two year bump in it and handcuffs management in the kinds of deals they can make during that time.
i don't think you don't want to get into a position where you're relying on a single year's trade deadline to rebuild a team. maybe you hit the jackpot, or maybe there are only below average offerings at the deadline that year, or you end up trading for picks in a shallow draft.
it is better to snap up opportunities as they become available over the course of a couple years, and a 5.4 million dollar boat anchor only makes that more difficult to accomplish.
Reading the runes, it seems like the locker room is now of great importance. This has been Tambo's song all summer: Rifles has been exiled to Ohio (poor chap), and the signings of Strudwick and SMac all point to the same thing.
ReplyDeleteWhether a returning Souray will upset the apple cart remains an unknown quantity, but if he's prepared to eat a healthy slice of humble (and his public quotes suggest as much) and await a trade that suits the Oilers, I'm all for it.
LT,
ReplyDeleteI don't think it makes us porridge. Nor are we, as striatic says, hitting a major speed bump.
Team dynamics can be very complex. Souray might well be seen in the room as somebody who spoke truth to power. Management was screwed up, badly, he just called a spade a spade.
Something has changed in the management suite and certainly in part it is because of finishing 30th. However, it is also in part because Souray opened up the windows and let a little fresh air in. Sure he had his own self interest in mind but you could also say he was more than a little frustrated and weren't we all last year.
I'm guessing, but I bet his teammates see him as a heart on his sleeve kind of guy. It is sure how he comes off on the ice. In other words he would fit right in to that new dressing room. His return and a rapproachment with management would go a long way to convince other members of the team that blind devotion is not expected or required. Talk about changing team culture!
LT: With the signing this morning of Giroux, Souray clearing waivers, Petiot and JFJ (imo) ticketed for OKC I think they are helping the farm.
ReplyDeleteI agree w/you that I just don't see (at least for the start of the season) any way you bring Souray back to Edmonton. Can't let his attitude be anywhere near the kids. Pure poison.
What they need to address for OKC next is a "quality" AHL goalie. What they have now does not work...unless you're going to try and sneak a JDD down. You think there's any chance they might try this?
Overall, I continue to like the moves. The summer of Steve is laying a good foundation. Beats the last 2 summers.
Well I see everyones argument about mending fences with Souray, I just don't think it is going to happen. I also don't think it is out of a sadist compulsion that the Oilers' brass wants to make him 'pay' for his comments. Having an individual around that undermines the management or coaching staff undermines the direction and plan they have in place. It is not like Souray is an elite level player so he is worth the diva treatment (Hemsky on the other hand . . .).
ReplyDeleteIf the brass cannot trade him, I do not see them using the buyout window in August. I see them assigning him to the AHL the day before camp opens. If he doesn't report then the contract is void, and if he does then the AHL team just got a hell of a lot better.
There is no PR disaster here: he said he did not want to play with the Oilers . . . just make sure you give him a couple phone calls before you do this and say that you informed Souray this was going to be his fate in the middle of the summer (what is he going to say: the did inform me of no one wanting to trade for me, and no one wants me on waivers, and they did tell me this a long time ago, but it is the management fault I am in the AHL). Yes it costs the Oilers 3 extra million over two years if he is not bought out, but it saves on cap space in year three and four: when it is needed more.
I base this on the commercial the Oilers aired the day before the draft on TSN: you know when KLowe said he should have sat Pronger. History could repeat it self (the Oilers trade a unhappy defenseman, but the trade hurts the team long run), but I don't think it is going to happen
I like Linnaeus' take on things here. Souray came out at the point in time where we all knew everything was going terribly wrong, and I was really pissed that he made it public but he's seeing first hand how that can bite you in the keester.
ReplyDeleteThe waiver move was a nice rebuttal from Steve where he essentially said "Fuck you, shut up. I couldn't move you for anything, and I couldn't move you for nothing." All the same, it seems like every management move since Sourays comments have been good ones in the eyes of the Oilogosphere. It might have been a good slap in the face for both of them.
Hopefully they (Tambo and Sheldon) can do what he wants here and just sit down and talk like adults, and maybe they'll come to some conclusion where they can justify him coming back.
It's bad to have someone call out your management. But when your management has been sitting on their hands through mediocrity for 3 or 4 years and just led its team to a 30th place finish, mutiny could easilly be seen as good ol' honesty.
I don't see Souray staying/going as the big issue here. A far bigger concern is that the Oilers like Robeiro, and they most assuredly do. (first-hand, face to face, when asked by the biggest Hawks fan out there, ((points at self)), how he assessed Kane and Toews, a certain former coach known for tongue pulling replied, "Kane is a cocky little sob and I don't like that kid of player." "Toews I don't know much about but he hasn't really shown me a lot for all the hype he gets." Granted this was pre-Olympics but JHC. Then when pressed as to who he really likes the name "Mike Robeiro" comes up?? ). Do I believe this former coach still acts in a consultative role? Yes I do. Am I glad it's only that?? Very much so.
ReplyDeletei don't worry that he might poison the room, since he comes off as a bit clownish chiding Tambellini over how he was treated now that every GM in the league has turned him down.
ReplyDeletewhat i worry about is him stinking up the ice and possibly getting injured again while eating up 5.4 million in cap space that the team could really use over the next two years to rebuild.
i don't get the "Souray as whistleblower" perception either. he didn't reveal anything people could just assume was already happening within the organization of a last place team, and mostly complained about how he was being treated by management, personally. all this being part of a trade demand, despite being an essentially untradeable player.
I think this means Souray starts the year in Edmonton. For this year, that's not so bad because we have the cap room to pay him.
ReplyDeleteIf he can stay healthy and rack up points on the PP and play well on the PK, then he will be a more attractive commodity, especially since we'll have paid for most of this years salary.
He's not a bad second pairing guy and he can PK. Just not worth 5.5.MM with his injuries especially. Let's just pray he can stay healthy, because if he misses a significant amount of games this year, he'll be even harder to move. Yikes.
All of the other stuff about whether he's a poison in the room or a good influence is just guess work and, IMO, no matter what the truth is, a situation like that should be easy enough to resolve, even for the Oilers.
I don't see Souray staying/going as the biggest issue here. A far bigger concern is that the Oilers like Robeiro, and they most assuredly do. (first-hand, face to face, when asked by the biggest Hawks fan out there, ((points at self)), how he assessed Kane and Toews, a certain former coach known for tongue pulling replied, "Kane is a cocky little sob and I don't like that kid of player." "Toews I don't know much about but he hasn't really shown me a lot for all the hype he gets." Granted this was pre-Olympics but JHC. Then when pressed as to who he really likes the name "Mike Robeiro" comes up?? ).
ReplyDeleteDo I believe this former coach still acts in a consultative role? Yes I do. Am I glad it's only that?? Very much so.
Let me rephrase: The goal is to get rid of him for next year when we need the cap room.
ReplyDeleteHis deal expires after next season.
If a deal can be made for a guy who has a contract that runs out this year, you do that, no matter how bad the deal is.
But it's more likely teams will be able to pick him up at the deadline or next offseason. He'll only have one more year at this price, which is a lot less scary to a wider range of teams. I mean, we might've been willing to take a chance at a guy like Souray from some other team, if he only had a one year deal.
So I'm not too worried about Souray.
Potential D:
ReplyDeleteWhitney + Gilbert
Souray + Foster
Smid + one of Vandermeer/ Chorney/Peckham/Strudwick
That's not gonna get Lord Stanley interested, but covers for injury, and for a rebuild, I can live with this.
Souray, the asset, requires patience to return to profitability.
ReplyDeleteIf he returns to the team healthy he is, in fact, a not horrible second pairing defenceman. Overpaid, definitely, but still useful. If he can avoid injury he begins to increase in value, either at the trade deadline or possibly the end of the coming season you may be able to move him.
If he shows up injured then he goes on LTIR, if he gets badly hurt part way through the season, same thing. If he is able to return at some point then you start the clock again on his increasing value. If his value doesn't increase enough to bring a decent return then you begin the buy out process next year, including trying to waive him.
As a player his effect on the dressing room is important, though in fact we are all guessing, as kris said, about what he is like there. Team chemistry matters and having taken steps to make your room a happier place you don't want to screw that up. However, I agree with Kris that you should be able to address his effect on the younger players either in the dressing room or at the management level.
If he is permanently damaged goods then it is a problem for your insurance.
I don't see a down side here. If he is a crap D then he helps make sure we stay a lottery team. He is still fun to watch whether you are booing or cheering.
Looks like the Oil will have at least 7MM in cap space.
ReplyDeleteShould they offer one or two guys inflated one year deals just to take a run at the playoffs?
Glasgow: No way Chorney is going to be in Edmonton this season. He's finally going to get the at-bats he needs against AAA pitching to help him develop his game.
ReplyDeleteIt WILL be interesting to see if they let Souray come to camp. Oil D looks like (w/out Souray):
Whitney/Gilbert
Smid/Foster
Vandermeer/Peckham
Struds
Good at the top, ok in the second pairing - but some real concerns in the bottom pairing. Light is starting to go on w/Peckham, but still need some patience. Would have been nice to have a healthy Souray as a mentor, but that role is filled.
AHL defense is shaping up decent:
Petoit, Plante, Petry, Chorney, Taylor, Motin, vet, vet.
A group that's a work in progress all around.
On TSN the other day they were asking old team mates of Souray about him, and everyone said that he is in No way a poison, and is actually a great character guy to have. He's almost always worn a 'A' and there's been many times that Oilers fans have wanted to give him the C. I Know he demanded a trade and he's old, but he's not as injury prone as we make him out to be, and if the organization was willing reconcile I think he could be a really great part of this team. Certainly juices up our D a bit compared to.. Nothing.
ReplyDeleteRe Entry waivers is where he'll get picked up though, less money. Though I do wish Tambo read Lowetide, because a Souray Cogliano for Ribeiro trade would be unreal haha.
Oilerdago - you're correct re: Chroney; the point I was making is that with Souray on the D we have options on the thrid pairing...it's when we have to elevate defencemen I start to wake up sweating as per last year.
ReplyDeleteI agree Souray has to be traded now, but I certainly hold no gudge on him for his call out of management (providing it's all true which I find had not to be). I think it gave us all a bit more perspective on this mgmt that certainly has it's faults as as they don't want to admit it. I hope it opened ST and Lowe's eyes a bit and they learn from it and improve in this regard.
ReplyDeleteWe've also seen other similar instances of players/prospects that to felt negleted by this mangement.
Cogliano for Upshall. Who's with me.
ReplyDeleteApparently Upshall has some sort of a degenerative knee issue and the longevity of his career is unknown. That's complete hearsay, mind you. We are from the same hometown and some people I work with are good friends with his Dad.
ReplyDeleteSomewhat off topic but Hemsky played part of a Q season with Giroux in Hull. He was traded part way through the season. By my count Giroux has been in the minors for nine seasons and has won the Calder the last two in Hershey.
ReplyDeleteWe can also Chicago with their situation, we give them...
ReplyDeleteSouray
Chorney
Plante
JDD
JFJ
Reddox
.... for Keith (or Campbell if need be).
They go from 14 players with only $3.6mil remaining ($401k/player)...
To having 19 players with still $1.74mil ($435k/player) left.
:-)
Oilers looking at Rob Niedermayer:
ReplyDeleteTSNRyanRishaug..."Likely looking for 1yr, slight raise from the 1m last yr. Cousins with Strudwick, friends with Renney from Cranbrook. Seems like a good fit."
I like the name and the price. I suppose the question is: can Rob Niedermayer still play hockey?
ReplyDeleteShowerhead: I was wondering the same thing. Anyone know what he offers a team? PK? Good against the toughs?
ReplyDeleteBehind the net claims he played middling competition with bad teammates and a solid relative corsi. I don't follow the meanings of the two separate zone start numbers though.
ReplyDeletePDO was 1015. He can still skate, so should be able to PK.
ReplyDeleteRishaug also says we're one of 4 teams in for Corey Locke (for OKC).
ReplyDeleteLowetide: where does one find a PDO number? I am assuming Nidermayer's was pretty awful in his last Duck year to come out -17 after so many years of sawing off the tough minutes.
ReplyDeleteShowerhead:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.behindthenet.ca/2009/new_5_on_5.php?sort=31§ion=corsi&mingp=50&mintoi=10&team=N.J&pos=F
Hope that works. Anyway, it is in Desjardins in the "Corsi" dropdown.
I was thinking about Niedermayer a while ago as a nice fit, but thought he might like better weather or a chance at winning or something.
ReplyDeleteAnd how are his underlying numbers from the last two years?
Oops, Showerhead already answered that.
ReplyDeleteSounds like a nice signing. Good veteran. 3rd line. PK.
Do it Tambo! Hell, you can even give him a one year overpay deal so he can survive the cold weather.
Thanks LT and SH.
ReplyDeleteRishaug is tweeting, "no offer yet from Oilers, just inquiries at this point on Rob Niedermayer. Am told he would strongly consider Oilers."
Behind the net claims he played middling competition with bad teammates and a solid relative corsi. I don't follow the meanings of the two separate zone start numbers though.
ReplyDeleteAre you looking at the right Nidermayer?
Out of 408 Forwards who played at least 30 NHL games last year his RelCorsi was -21.1, good for 402/408. Bleh.
His RelCor was 14/14 on NJ
RelCor QC was 5/14
RelCor QT was 13/14
Toughish comp with crap to play with, but he got killed.
I'd rather have Pisani.
Niedermayer does not score, is 36 years old tis year and, worse, is mediocre at faceoffs and that would be fine if he was joining the 2006 Oilers. He is not. We had no one this past year who was even adequate at faceoffs. It is not a strength of Colin Fraser and who knows if Horcoff's shoulder is sufficiently recovered to allow him to take 5000 draws because everyone else is so bad.
ReplyDeletePass...... and why would we pay $1 million plus for a guy that does not fill a critical need?
Woodguy:
ReplyDeleteAre you looking at the right Niedermayer?
...
Toughish comp with crap to play with, but he got killed.
The only underlying numbers I used in my post were quality of competition and teammates, which you also mentioned in Rob's favour.
The rest looked like witchcraft to me so I left it out.
It seems that said witchcraft might be relevant? :)
SH,
ReplyDeleteHa!
Yeah, its not good.
I think his days of playing the toughs are done...unless of course the Oilers sign him. :)
If they sign him, I bet all his RelCol stats will be close to last years. 2nd toughs with the dregs and getting pounded.
Back from a short holiday and I have to say it has been a pretty impressive few days for Tambellini.
ReplyDeleteUnloading Nilsson, POS, and Moreau and only taking one smallish hit to the cap and Vandermeer in return is extraordinary work.
Picking up Kurtis Foster on a quality contract while every other GM was big game hunting is the kind of move we've spent years begging the Oilers to make.
It's too bad they've been unable to unload Souray, but I give them credit both for trying and for not pulling the trigger on any deals that would involve even poorer contracts.
Niedermayer doesn't have much tread left on the tires and but I suppose he would suffice as a one year stop-gap. He's nowhere near the player he once was, but this team desperately needs some PKers and some size in the middle.
Can't we just give Comrie another shot at filling that 3C role?
ReplyDeleteI heard Gregor talking the other day about how there might be something to be said for having a veteran smurf on the team to show our young ones what it's going to take for them to have solid NHL careers as smaller players.
I thought it was a fair point for a rebuilding team to consider.
So if they don't add a vet like Neidermeyer or Pisani, what do you do with Cogs? gregor has an interesting post on cogs at ON, basically suggesting why not give him the sheltered 2nd line minutes with some skill guys, and have horc be your pseudo third line centre who plays big minutes.
ReplyDeleteHall-Gagner-Hemsky
Penner-Cogliano-Eberle
MPS-Horcoff-Brule
Jones-Fraser-Stortini
Macintyre-Strudwick
Whitney-Gilbert
Souray-Smid
Foster-Vandermeer
Peckham
yeah we'll bleed at EVS, but it balances out the lineup somewhat and gives Cogs a chance to play with actual skilled guys (which means he is trade bait or a good surprise for us). Gagner gets the top dogs, and Horcoff still plays huge minutes, with Brule bringing some physical and MPS adding some speed and scoring (not to mention he is OK in his own zone, which is more then I can say for a lot of Oilers)
The difference between Comrie and Niedermayer, is that Renney will play Niedermayer against the toughs.
ReplyDeleteWhy is that important?
Shawn Horcoff has proven time and time again hes capable of putting up numbers when hes not facing the #1 toughs.
If we can pump some value into #10, its good news all around.
Mike Comrie sentences Horcoff to another season in the dungeon.
Know what..... absent his ridiculous contract, we would have zero qualms about playing Horcoff on the 3rd line. So lets do it. But he is not going to get us much by way of scoring so can we quit with that fiction. Please! We do, still, need someone else who can win a freaking draw and as much as we want to say...so and so can get better. Lets sign or trade for someone better at that very very important skillset and remove "hope" from part of the equation
ReplyDeleteThe Other John:
ReplyDeleteI admire your conviction, really... but just humor me and do some homework. Look at Horcoffs seasons since the lockout that hes been #2 or #3 toughs for centers.
Hes put up impressive numbers. What happens when hes the shut down guy? he falls down the mineshaft offensively. every. damn. time.
Granted Hemsky is a soft-killer too and thats helped 10, but the guy simply has zero offense when hes a defensive #1. If we can get that guy cheaper, then Horc historically become a significantly higher point producer.
(Ive reserached the stats on this and posted it multiple times, it passes the sniff test thoroughly. If you want to discount it then take the time to pull teh stats yourself)
cheers
Horcoff does fine against the toughs. When healthy, he always has:
ReplyDeletehttp://lowetide.blogspot.com/2009/08/re-09-10-shawn-horcoff.html
Danny
ReplyDeleteLet me rephrase what you just said: when Horcoff plays with Hemsky and Smyth or Hemsky and Penner he puts up decent numbers. When he doesn't play with players of that caliber he does not. One theory that could flow from that is that Horcoff is the beneficiary of playing with more offensively talented players. When he does not play with them he raises no ones numbers including his own.
Absent his salary I think we would see him as a very nice albeit complementary piece of a good team puzzle.
It is not his skillset that is lacking, it is insistence in placing him with offensively talented players to score ok numbers. I would like to see what Gagner could do if given that opportunity for a full season
Woodguy's got it right - no to Rob Niedermayer.
ReplyDeleteI think the Oilers should be going after Eric Belanger or Dominic Moore. However, I hear Belanger wants to go to a contender and the reason Washington hasn't re-signed him is because he's looking for a 4-year term, so he may not be a good fit in Edmonton.
Although both guys are good on the PK and have FO% >55%, I'd prefer Moore anyway because he's a little bigger, younger, and cheaper.
LT
ReplyDeleteGot up this morning opened the Al Gore....saw no new post from you here and thought.."bleepin Oiler Nation...already disrupting my freaking life"
On Horcoff I suspect that we will always agree to disagree. I think Horcoff is capable of being a championship caliber 2nd line center. If he is your # 1 center.....you get knocked out in your own conference--semi or finals. Unless, of course, you had CFP and Gator as your shutdown pair
I'm surprised that anyone (among fans) would be angry with Souray. As I've said before, and Deano and linnaeus talk about in this thread, I think the Oilers had it coming. More importantly, ST must have agreed with large parts of what Souray talked about - he fired the training staff, the equipment people, and various parts of the player development group. He's preached culture change and new direction for months.
ReplyDeleteInstead of taking this old school approach to players - trying to strong arm players publicly, demanding loyalty and crying treason against those who speak truth to power - I would like to see the Oilers take a more rational, modern approach. Word is that Souray is a good team mate. He's overpaid, sure, but we don't need the cap room immediately precisely because of the re-build. So have him talk to Matheson et al about how Tambo has changed things around and that he's excited to be back (humble pie), have Tambo mention that it's water under the bridge as they move forward, and ACT like the professionals they ostensibly are.
Most importantly, as fans, don't we want to know what's happening with our team? Don't we want Lombardi-esk State of the Team addresses, greater blogger access to team officials, more transparency, more professionalism, and more precise communication from the team? I appreciate Souray's honesty. Why do we rag on Souray for wanting better working conditions? He's an employee of the Oilers, not property of the team.
The other John: I don't think we disagree that much; Gagner will eventually pass Horcoff and we'll have enough depth to ice more than one line capable of facing tough opposition.
ReplyDeleteLT:
ReplyDeleteYeah, hes an outscorer, always have been. Im not saying otherwise. I was referring to his offense ONLY when talking about the mineshaft.
The drop-off in Horcs outscoring vs #1 lines to his outscoring vs softer, is a certain amount. The question is, if you can get someone to play the toughs, and achieve a similar results as Horc, then we look at what he can do against softer opp.
Hes been a verrry good soft mins guy. They dont come cheap (boxcars).
I'm not talking cherry minutes here. Im saying if Horc wasnt the ONLY guy to carry the important situations on his back, we'd see a larger increase in the good than the increase in bad that we will see having Niedermayer carry some of 10s burden.
Given the Oiler’s interest in Niedermayer, and more generally a veteran 3C, what are the thoughts on Richard Park?
ReplyDeleteRH Center
51.5% on 1040 draws
2:46 SH TOI/G (1st on NYI)
Averaged 30 points each of the last four seasons
Age: 34
Last contract: 800K
I suspect he might not be on the Oilers radar given that he is not from Western Canada and is 5’11, but he seems to address a lot of need areas. What does the math say about him?
His relCorsi was in the ditch, facing average or below opposition and crapola help:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.behindthenet.ca/2009/new_5_on_5.php?sort=26§ion=corsi&mingp=40&mintoi=10&team=NYI&pos=F
I'm banking on a big comeback year for 2008 All-Star Shawn Horcoff.
ReplyDeleteIf we can do it, I would look to Steckl or Boyd Gordon at washington. Don't think the Caps will keep both. Both are very good on face-offs
ReplyDeleteRe: Souray now having gone through waivers - if he were traded at this point would the team he was traded to need to bring him up on re-entry wiavers?
ReplyDeleteI ask this because I suspect that while nobody is clearly interested in his rights for $5.4 million x 2yrs, they might be interested in him at $2.7 million x 2yrs.
We trade him for futures to, say Dal, who bring him up through re-entry waivers where he is claimed by us. We then trade him, again, for someone worth $5 million (say Ribiero) and Dal gets Souray for Ribiero but also save $.
I'm sure there are rules that would prevent this but being in 30th has advantages beyond picking first in the Draft, I'm just trying to figure out what they are.
Kevin:
ReplyDeleteI like what you wrote an awful lot. I've been thinking along those same lines for awhile now. Obviously 3.0 agreed with quite a bit of Souray's media rant because he has made sweeping changes that seem to address what we have all felt were some of the issues keeping this organization near the bottom of the NHL.
I still think Souray ends up elsewhere but I don't think that it's impossible for him to be welcomed back by not only the fanbase but by management as well. Who would have believed that there would have been cheers heard at Rexall last season for Mike Comrie?
Highlander:
ReplyDeleteSouray was but on waivers but not for assignment to the AHL. He doesn't have to go through re-call waivers at this point.
Tambellini took a chance on someone plucking Souray for free but found no takers.
I'm not positive but if nothing transpires between now and the opening of training camp the Oilers could potentially put Souray back on waivers. However, I don't think the Oilers have any interest in paying Souray half his salary to play for someone else. If they do end up sending him to OKC in the fall he'll be there for the year unless he chooses not to report.
if souray comes back & gets 20 goals & 50points I'm positive 50%of the guys bashing him will be on his bandwagon so fast....so many oiler fans are flavor of the month fans...win 3 in a row they are the best,lose 3 in a row & the coach is a moron so fire him...at least I have ALWAYS found the positives out of the negatives & always stuck by the oilers even when they suck....how many of you can say the same?
ReplyDeleteJoe : Souray is still very poor defensively outside of hitting. Which is sad for his size.
ReplyDeleteD Oil: Richard Park has been on the radar of the Oilerblogosphere for some time. Not always the most mentioned named, but I am sure a few of us would throw parties if the Oilers signed him. He can play both RW and centre, so he is more of a fit to the Oil right now.
ReplyDeletePS: I have been personally asking for him since last season started, and think about it for a little longer.
For those worried about him being a bad influence on Oklahoma City - the Oilers could find him a spot on another AHL team. They don't have to send him to OKC.
ReplyDeleteHowever, if we are sending him to the minors, why not send him to Stockton of the ECHL?
It's in California near his kids?
"Kevin said...
ReplyDeleteI'm surprised that anyone (among fans) would be angry with Souray. As I've said before, and Deano and linnaeus talk about in this thread, I think the Oilers had it coming. More importantly, ST must have agreed with large parts of what Souray talked about - he fired the training staff, the equipment people, and various parts of the player development group. He's preached culture change and new direction for months.
Instead of taking this old school approach to players - trying to strong arm players publicly, demanding loyalty and crying treason against those who speak truth to power - I would like to see the Oilers take a more rational, modern approach. Word is that Souray is a good team mate. He's overpaid, sure, but we don't need the cap room immediately precisely because of the re-build. So have him talk to Matheson et al about how Tambo has changed things around and that he's excited to be back (humble pie), have Tambo mention that it's water under the bridge as they move forward, and ACT like the professionals they ostensibly are.
Most importantly, as fans, don't we want to know what's happening with our team? Don't we want Lombardi-esk State of the Team addresses, greater blogger access to team officials, more transparency, more professionalism, and more precise communication from the team? I appreciate Souray's honesty. Why do we rag on Souray for wanting better working conditions? He's an employee of the Oilers, not property of the team."
I agree with Kevin. Good points Kevin!
I have said all of this before but not nearly as eloquently. Well said!
Souray can still contribute and the blue line is still thin with experience. There was talk that Souray could stay an Oiler.
ReplyDeleteSee:http://etownhockey.blogspot.com/
ST must have agreed with large parts of what Souray talked about - he fired the training staff, the equipment people, and various parts of the player development group.
ReplyDeleteI thought Souray's anti-management rant was directed at Tambellini specifically, especially with him not calling Souray directly when he was in the hospital? Has Souray even once said a bad word about the Oilers training staff? I didn't think he had.
Painting Souray as the NHL version of Norma Rae seems somewhat inaccurate to me, when you look at what he actually said, rather than what you you'd like to think he meant.
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ReplyDelete