This is Peter Mahovlich. He was the 2nd player taken in the history of NHL's drafts (#2 overall, 1963). The first player taken (Garry Monahan) ended up getting traded for Peter Mahovlich 6 years later. The Detroit Red Wings used to be a pretty terrible team, and their trading of Mahovlich (to Montreal, of course) was pretty typical of their style. Old timey Red Wings fans (my father in law is one and has an exceptional memory) tell stories of the Red Wings of the early '50s turning over a lot of their roster in the summers when they won the Stanley. Crazy stuff.
Detroit turned the corner miles ago, and one of the reasons is scout Hakan Andersson. There's a great article up at nhl.com that gives the reader a very nice look into how things get down in the Red Wings war room:
- "I've heard that some teams have meetings 10-12 hours a day prior to drafting. But we settle things quicker than that. I think part of that is the fact our scouting staff has been the same group for years. The majority of us have been together for 10 years. I find that if we're discussing a European player, we'll take a smaller discussion to the table with me, Vladdie (Vladimir Havluj) and either Jim (Nill) or Joe (McDonnell). The three or four of us will work that out and talk about the player. I do know my mind is on the draft 24 hours a day when its coming up. Jim Nill and Joe McDonnell make the decisions but just before our pick is coming up, they'll say, 'Hakan, one more time now. We're looking at this guy. What's your gut feeling?' It's nothing big or anything, but basically do I like him or not."
Another article that should be of interest to Oiler fans is a nice writeup on the Oilers site about last season's draft. Mike Sillinger makes the comments (he's the new KP) and has some interesting things to say.
- (on Cameron Abney): “For a really big guy, his legs just haven’t caught up to him yet. But he has the real potential to become a real power forward. His biggest thing is that he needs to get stronger. He needs more leg power. He just hasn’t filled out his body yet.”
For those of us who are used to Kevin Prendergast's verbal, the negative words ("haven't" and "hasn't") stand out. Having said that, Abney's offense has a long way to go before we can call him a power forward; maybe Sillinger has some KP in him after all.
If Abney turns into the player they are talking about here, I will take back everything I have said about the current mgmt group.
ReplyDeleteThey really are smarter than everyone else.
yeesh (again)
I've read in a few places that he could be Terry O'Reilly. Except that O'Reilly scored about a point per game at age 18.
ReplyDeleteAbney? 13 points in 68 games.
Didn't eberle credit sillinger for helping his development at the wjc
ReplyDeleteAbney has more trade value than our captain and future captain combined!
ReplyDeleteUnbelievable, but true.
we'll see about Abney. if he can't score, he'll be just another goon, and goons seem to be going the way of the doh-doh bird in today's game.
ReplyDeleteAbney. No power. No forward.
ReplyDeleteTraktor,
ReplyDeleteYour ability to take every topic and slant it so you can disparage Horcoff's contract is astounding.
Are you in sales?
If not, you may want to think of that as a career.
The three key skills in selling are questioning, listening and directing the conversation. You have the last one cold.
The hubbub when the Oilers took Abney so early is that they got wind someone else liked him too (Wings maybe?)
Seeing as MBS got Oliver and Rajala in latter rounds Abney may be forgiveable if his "legs don't catch up to his body"
You make a lot of interesting comments about the draft LT, but I just wanted to mention that Horcoff abuses puppies and steals canes from old people and Tambellinni is to blame.
ReplyDeleteThe only way you could see that in Abney is if your judgement was impaired while watching him or you mistook him for someone else. He's just not that good.
ReplyDeleteAbney's teamates must wonder why the hell did he get drafted, especially Kellen Tochkin, or Tyler Maxwell.
ReplyDeleteLets say he works on those legs all summer and turns his skating into a strength, what then? is his ceiling JFJ?
ReplyDeleteBut he has the real potential to become a real power forward.
ReplyDeleteHahaha..Too funny. For real?
There's just no excuse for such a terrible pick. I mean ffs he wasn't even a regular on a WHL team.
ReplyDeleteConspicuously absent from the Oilers' article - Kyle Bigos.
ReplyDeleteTrak - that last comment was funny - why'd you pull it?
I'm more amused by the use of "real" twice in the same sentence.
ReplyDeleteI guess its about time we had heard something concrete from Sillinger. I was starting to wonder if he was still a part of the organization. I'm guessing with KP out the door Sillinger will be heard from more often.
ReplyDeleteInteresting that Bigos was conviently forgotten off the article. He must have been playing hockey somewhere near the earth's core.
It is strange that they forgot Bigos.
ReplyDeleteMy buddy's son was a senior on Bigos' team.
He visited his son and saw a few games and said that Bigos "skated well for a kid that big"
I think he's a bit of a project too.
I was wondering where Bigos was in that article too.
ReplyDeleteAn enforcer with limited offence (even for an enforcer in junior) does seem like a strange choice for a 3rd round pick, but if he
manages to become an nhl level goon and one of Hesketh or Bigos play 200 games or so it won't look so bad in retropect.
Unless of course someone taken a pick or so later turns out to real impact player, then it becomes "we could have had so and so but took
friggin punchy mcgoo instead"
Bigos is 2 years older than the rest of the 2009 draft class.
ReplyDeleteHe should be jumping to the AHL soon if he's going anywhere.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2009e.html
ReplyDeleteThe 3 guys taken immediately after Abney all look like they could be players - probably not impact players, but definitely NHL players.
Yeah...
Rob Daum in an interview the other day: “I don’t believe there is a better person, a better coach, to work with that team. I don’t care who they hire. I’m not perfect, but for what this organization needs at the American Hockey League level, I just don’t think there’d be anybody who would be a better fit."
ReplyDeleteWhile he may have not meant it to come across that way, that is a pretty arrogant statement. -11 points for Egomania....
Abney and Bigos are both potentially valuable late bloomers.
ReplyDeleteBigos is still struggling to adjust to the speed of US College Hockey. However, he is an exceptional physical talent. His development was stunted by being born in traditionally hockey mad Upland, California. He is a long shot in other words, but a fascinating one. A goon with a canon who can rush the puck he might be worth waiting for.
Abney, and I will say this again, also has an upside. He comes from a family where the men fill in late and he has a massive frame to bulk up. He has exceptionally long lever arms which is critical to the application of power in any sport. Skating is largely about leg power (strength/speed) and the thinking went, and still goes as the article makes reference to, that Abney will develop in the lower body and become a decent skater. He can fight and is a willing hitter so if his skating got to be even average he could have a career.
I see both guys (and Hesketh) as credible attempts to get coke machines who can play as compared to our current coke machines who can't. We won't know if any of them was a failed attempt or not for at least three more years. Hesketh had a good but not great season and now seems to be injured. Any reasonable evaluation would say "promising kid". Bigos' arrows look much better than Abney's and against faster bigger players. With Abney the question really is if and when he grows into his body.
Closing thought on Abney, the assumption seems to be that because he isn't tearing up junior he won't have an NHL career. On the Oilers we have a kid who at the same age couldn't make a junior B team. He ended up going to a college far from the center of the hockey world. Where he preceded to break his femur. In that lost year he began to fill in his massive frame. Not that his career exactly took off. His AHL numbers didn't inspire confidence but he just kept getting stronger and filling in. I am of course referring to Dustin Penner, another kid with long lever arms and whose legs took a long time to catch up to the rest of his body. So maybe we should wait and see with Abney, we might well be incubating another Dustin Penner.
By the way, the math works like this Dustin Penner + hitting + fighting = Terry O'Reilly.
"Closing thought on Abney, the assumption seems to be that because he isn't tearing up junior he won't have an NHL career."
ReplyDeleteUm...no...he isn't even really PLAYING in junior.
I get from your next statement that the solution is to break legs? Now we're talkin!
Name one player who is worse than Abney, by objective measures -stats, pre-draft rankings- selected in the third round since the lockout.
ReplyDeleteThen name 3. If you can't do it, Abney is a bad bet and would have been available in the much later rounds.
I'm always happy no matter who they fire.
ReplyDeleteThey could draw straws for all I care.
How about if they get Kevin Lowe and Ethan Moreau together for a three year long tour of Mongolia, to uncover some future gems for the Oilers.
ReplyDeleteWorld cup soccer is ridiculously watered down with 32 teams, causing almost all of the games so far to be snoozefests.
ReplyDeleteThen its the last 16, like the nhl, but in a sudden death single game march until the last team is left standing and unless you're a fan of Brazil, Germany or Italy, forget it.
And so far the euro teams are wilting under the African heat so that leaves Brazil with a pretty open field at this point. Maradona is too much a distraction for that country(Argentina) to win the cup.
Sorry about the soccer Lowetide, but it's either that or comparing an 8 year incredible Taylor Hall career ala Orr, or a Doug Weight maybe a little better career with Tyler Seguin, who asks for a trade out of town as soon as it's politely possible say, 10-12 seasons from entering the NHL.
Anyone who doesn't know soccer I would recommend the final game, its almost always worth watching.
PS: Germany is the most technically advanced team in the world, and has cleverly been practising with the new style ball that's giving other teams fits. Never ever count the Germans out, so make them the 2nd pick after Brazil.
ReplyDeleteAnd come to think of it Italy always start badly then get stronger so they're still in with a chance, as third place bet.
Did anyone see the Hawks on Leno? Leno shows a clip of Toews getting the Conn Smythe and the crowd booing. He asks Toews how it felt to get booed. I wish Toews was not so diplomatic and would've explained that it was the crowd booing Bettman.
ReplyDeleteThe only way you could see that in Abney is if your judgement was impaired while watching him or you mistook him for someone else. He's just not that good.
ReplyDeleteIndeed. I saw him in one game, at the end of last season. I guess I saw him good, if you assume his career potential is the fourth line, but that's not they're talking up, and it's sure as hell not what you try to draft in the third round. If you're hoping he fills out at 20 and turns into a player, maybe you should take him in the seventh round, or wait another year; he'll probably still be there.
For perspective, Ian Schultz was taken five picks later the previous year by STL. He worked his way up the lineup each year he was in Calgary, from fourth-line goon (who still got 15-15-30) right into the top six. This year, he became one of the top two-way forwards in the WHL and a penalty-killing demon, and captained the Hitmen to the Memorial Cup semifinal. He's much closer to Terry O'Reilly than Abney will ever be, and even at that, I don't think his top end is quite that lofty (I'm thinking he's from the Ethan Moreau tree, in a good way -- 15 goals, great PKer, good fighter).
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteRandom aside: Former Oilers prospect Freddie Pettersson is now a Thrasher.
ReplyDelete@ hunter
ReplyDeleteits winter in south Africa with temperatures around 2-5 C. sometimes dipping to sub-zero.
@ hunter
ReplyDeleteits winter in south Africa with temperatures around 2-5 C. sometimes dipping to sub-zero.
Stop bothering hunter with your facts, he is busy making an arguement.
Hunter, the Italians rarely ever look 'strong'. Their MO for ages now has been to show up, play the football equivalent of the trap, turtling through the game hoping to get a goal off the counter-attack or a win off the penalty shoot-out (though they've had tough luck here too). Galling only really because the Italians have enough talent that they shouldn't have to play like that.
ReplyDeleteThey really had no business beating France last go around. It's one of the reasons why a lot of people don't like the Azurri.
You also forgot to mention a few other teams like the Neatherlands, who have a strong all around team with very good offensive depth but usually bows out in the quarters or semis, and the Argentinians who have a run and gun type team with 6 strikers but only 2 real midfield options (limiting their middle playmaking and defensive ability).
Also I find the comment about the sun or heat or whatever nonsense wilting the Euro teams to be notwithstanding. I don't know what Brazil PRK game you saw, but Brazil could have ended up with a tie very easily. The first round is annoying because weaker teams play very tight disciplined defensive games, and they can pull off a few upsets like the Swiss did.
Just because I don't think I've got the obligatory ass-kissing comment in since i started reading here...
ReplyDeleteYou're the man LT, and I appreciate the work you put in. I sincerely hope that the Oilers brass got your page bookmarked, ESPECIALLY come draft season.
That is all, carry on gents :)
linnaeus - when you put it that way it is even more ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteBig guys that could play @ 18 did not work out so we are pursuing physical freaks who can't play in the hopes that they are on Penner's path.
Simultaneously, we don't sign any NCAA FA's (kids actually further ahead on Penner's path)
Have you ever heard of Occam's razor?
How Oilers brass fit those massive brains into automobiles and through doorways is a mystery.
Plenty of job security provided by picking guys with long incubation periods.
At least they picked MPS and Lander before they started screwing around.
I'm not sure about the temperatures in South Africa but it's late december, just don't know the equivalent latitude etc for the northern hemisphere - kind of like when you reverse longitude from Edmonton and discover the other side of the world is Khazikstan.
ReplyDeleteThe Dutch, Spanish, Portuguese and a few other names haven't ever won the cup, so like the Canucks or LA Kings until proven otherwise are all likely to stumble.
Germany and Brazil for me, and Italian football is second to none in the world, their teams are always technically excellent, they always have killer strikers, kind of like what some of us saw from Taylor Hall at the Memorial Cup.
Traktor:
ReplyDeleteMy top 30 for 2010 finishes after the first pick.
From that point on, it's no concern of the Oilers, or mine.
I don't know much about Seguin who I'm sure will turn out to be a decent to excellent NHL player, but the Memorial Cup performance seals it for me with Hall.
Boston getting Hall means they win the best player to walk straight into the NHL - leaving Oilers spinning their wheels forever, also it's hard to imagine owner Katz not to want to see an impact player guaranteed to be on the team for next season.
I'm kind of hoping they take Hall now just so we don't have to read more of hunters incessant whining.
ReplyDelete