I was a little underwhelmed with him last season, but it was a pretty small sample so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
I think he's probably good enough to be the 4th line LW on this team, but he makes almost $1M and probably isn't a huge step up from a guy like Reddox who'll probably make closer to $500K. I could see him being put back on waivers if he doesn't have a good camp.
I'm just happy that he mentions that someone in the organization has communicated with him about expectations. That might be the first time I've heard positive comments about organizational communication in a while (since Tambo took over the 2nd time?). I think he'll make a good 4th liner if he's as healthy as he says.
AHL or 4th line and let him work his way up from there. Reddox is cheaper, but Jones is bigger and can play a more physical game.
On a funny aside, I've read a lot of posts by Flyers fans that suggests doing Edmonton a 'favour' and 'giving' them Carter and Parent (or a nominal prospect) for the 1st overall pick and a RFA they'll have trouble signing and don't want like Gagner or perhaps Brule.
Yeah. 1st overall + Gagner for Carter and Parent. Good to see outlandish trade rumours touted by the masses around draft time, always entertaining.
Interesting comment from Chiarelli, suggesting what we've thought all along, that if the Oil and B's make a swap it will be a deal to "lay off" Hall:
"I would think if I were to make a deal, I wouldn't get the No. 1 pick, I would get the player -- I know it's semantics -- but I don't know, I haven't had that type of discussion. I've had discussions with [Oilers GM] Steve [Tambellini], but it hasn't reached that point yet."
Jones is kind of a forgotten man in the ridiculous log jam at forward. If you count UFAs like Pisani and Comrie who could at least theoretically return, there are currently 17 NHL forwards hanging around, plus four prospects with at least some chance of making it.
He's had almost no chance to make an impression. He's a genuine power forward if he can ever stay healthy and find some traction in the NHL. I have no idea whether he'll really get that opportunity this fall. I'd take him in a microsecond over Jacques or Stone, but he doesn't seem to be above them on the current organizational depth chart. It does seem safe to pencil him in as a 13th/14th forward at this point.
Ideally, if genuinely healthy and able to stay that way, he could provide some decent jam and a little bit of complementary scoring at 3L. I'd certainly prefer him to, e.g., Stone there - a notch less size and abrasiveness, but way more footspeed, still plenty of smack, and potentially capable of chipping in 15 goals.
If for whatever reason we don't want him, I don't see any way he plays in the AHL. He has a one way contract and all things being equal someone is going to want to give him another shot. There's probably a 20-25 goal power forward in there if he was ever to stay healthy and get in the right situation. Unlikely to happen, but if he's healthy I'd like him in the bottom six ahead of either Stone or Jacques.
Jones brings some interesting things to the table.
He is one of only a handful of players ever to be a three year Captain of an NCAA hockey team, so he has leadership. He scores garbage goals from high traffic areas which isn't a common skill set on the Oilers. He scores big goals (set the all time Miami University record for game winning goals). He likes to bang and crash and force the puck to the net. He knows where he is weak (ie. skating and positioning)and is prepared to work hard to fix the problems. He also can play the role of agitator.
Essentially his career is tracking a bit like Jon Sim, a crusty guy who can score and gets under the other teams skin. If we unload Moreau then Jones is the obvious 3L if we draft Seguin and the 4L if we take Hall. If we keep Moreau and draft Hall Jones falls to 13th forward. Which would be further proof that live just isn't fair.
Moose brought it up first but Boston are probably obligated to do something to try and get their guy. The PR aspect would look bad if they just sat back and hoped for the right result
Like most people here I think he'll be somewhere in the bottom six and at worst a 13th guy.
He seems to have ok size and is most likely a PK option.
I keep forgetting about guys like this who were in the lineup at one point last season. There are lots of decisions to be made and it should be an interesting camp with too many guys for not enough jobs.
Dug, no idea about oilers lunch, i just think if Boston are willing to trade the #2 + Ryder for Hemsky and a conditional 1st in 2012, it makes a lot of sense for both sides. The conditional pick would hinge on Hemsky resigning with Boston.If he doesnt they get most likely a top 10 pick anyhow. If hemsky resigns it downgrades to a 2nd rnd pick.
Boston came to within 1 goal of the conference finals this year, and need scoring on the wing. Best case scenario, they resign hemsky and add an 2nd rnd pick, worst case they get 2 years of Hemsky for their cup run, and add a 1st rounder in 2012.
In a 2001 re-draft, Hemsky is an easy top 3 pick. Theres no Guarantee the 2nd overall this year will be a top 3 re-draft pick.
Edmonton diminishes the risk of losing hemsky in 2 years, and secures a lottery pick next season in addition to the 1+2 this season. They can afford to lose their 2012 1st rounder at that stage.
just my opinion, but I have to be honest im terrified of Hemsky walking in two years. His peak trade value is now IMO.
Jones fits as a 4th liner. If we tried to send him to OKC, he'd have to clear waivers and chances are good Nashville would take him back as they were trying to sneak him down when we picked him up.
He's a cheap enough contract that Nashville would take him back.
So it's 4th line here, trade add on, or Nashville. He won't be in the AHL for us cause he won't make it.
I love how the majority of posters in here accept unequivocally that the Oilers accept the fact that they simply are not allowed to take the currently obvious BPA, such is the effect of a 20 year losing streak on the collective psyche of the fanbase.
I'd do that trade, I just have no idea why Boston would. Why not just offer the moon to get Hall, who is a substantially better fit than Hemsky to a team full of centers (Savard-Hemsky would be a horrendous duo.) I think, at max, 15th + Wheeler + some ancillary picks probably gets Edmonton to lay off Hall. I'd rather trade that package than Seguin for Hemsky and picks, if I'm Boston.
Settle the top two lines with Horcoff, Hemsky, Penner, Gagner, Kid and a straggler from the Cogs/POS/Nilsson/Comrie camp after the expected exodus.
I'd get a vet 3rd line winger AND center (though I fear that vet winger might just end up being Ethan) to play with Brule.
As for the 4th line, I'd say let Jacques walk or ply his trade with the Barons, then let Stone and Jones battle it on LW, Pouliot and Potulny battle it out for 4th line C, and give Stortini his spot at 4th line RW because he plays the role perfectly for us.
Conversely I think Potulny or Pouliot might have it in em to be the 3rd line C we play with Brule.
I love how the Hall backers unequivocally won't accept that there is so little that divides the 2 players even in the eyes of scouts and won't allow for any other opinion than their own.
I don't back either, I just back McGregor, because of what I just said. Development and personality are on Seguins side, achievements and attitude on Halls. Both will be excellent. The strange part to me is the stuborness on the side of Halls supporters and the openness of Seguins.
Repeat, I would be ecstatic with either.... But if we pick Seguin and the city calls bloody murder I'm gonna lose my shit with this fanbase.
I'm pretty sure the waiver pick-up was a sneaky move to send some cash Nashville's way. Mudcrutch picked up on it at the deadline, but nothing much else came of it.
Also there seems to be a poor relationship between Jones and NAS, from the article:
The 2004 fourth-round draft pick of the Minnesota Wild has little to say about being waived by the Predators.
"I don't want to comment too much on it," Jones said. "Just not a ton of opportunities."
Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but the tone of the article leads me to believe the Preds were flipping a guy they didn't like and Ty's bit makes me think they flipped him for cash.
quain: I think youre being a little dramatic with the word 'horrendous' no?
second, BOS doesnt have the 1st pick. Edmonton does, so if they pick Hall 1st overall, how horrendous is seguin/savard ?
Anyways im not going to argue the merits of a trade idea. If you think its 'horrendous' so be it. I think the value is pretty close, and something that would help both teams in its own way.
I love how the majority of posters in here accept unequivocally that the Oilers accept the fact that they simply are not allowed to take the currently obvious BPA, such is the effect of a 20 year losing streak on the collective psyche of the fanbase.
Hunter, you either have psychological problems or you are just a troll - take your meds if its A, don't bother if its B.
give Jones third line minutes and some 2nd PP time to see if he pops a few goals garbage goals the article says he can generate. Get him to work on his positioning and maybe he'll be able to kill penalties too.
@danny......there was some chatter on the Oilers Lunch yesterday about Hemmer being offered to Boston, but i didn't hear for what?
Someone (Brownlee??) suggested Hemsky + MPS for 2nd OV + bad contract.
Its a terrible proposition as MPS has a good chance to be as good, if not better than Hall.
Hall was great all year and in the Memorial cup again...vs other teenagers.
Here is the list of All Stars from the World Cup:
Goalkeeper: Dennis Endras (GER) Defenceman: Petteri Nummelin (FIN) Defenceman: Christian Ehrhoff (GER) Forward: Pavel Datsyuk (RUS) Forward: Evgeni Malkin (RUS) Forward: Magnus Pääjärvi-Svensson (SWE)
Some interesting company he is keeping there.
An AllStar among men at the World's and people are "throwing him in" trades for someone who may not be as good as him.
Good Grief.
If Hemsky (who is a very, very, very good man) is cold on re-signing then I can see a trade to Bos along with others for the 2OV pick, but + MPS?? Not if you are sane.
Also,
Unless you work for the Oilers you slot Ryan Jones ahead of JFJ, may beat out Stone too.
If your LW are Penner,MPS, Hall, then there is one spot to grab (assuming MPS doesn't go to the AHL).
If your LW are Penner, MPS, ?,? and JFJ, Stone and Jones duke it out, I'd wager he sticks with the team.
All assuming thecaptainethanmoreau is the theboughtoutortradedehtanmoreau.
Jones plays bigger than his height and looks like an alright skater but I doubt he's anything more than a 4th liner.
The glaring needs are a checking line and a pivot at the top so I"m not gonna worry too much about the 4th liners until we have some 3rd liners to compliment all the youth and flash we have up front.
I would slot Ryan Jones as our starting goaltender and player-coach.
Expect the unexpected.
----
I'm really interested to know more about what management will do with the glut of forwards and forward prospects. The problem has reached critical mass.
Here's what I mean. I sort of like the following lineup, though you probably have to alter it if you take Seguin.
Penner-Horcoff-Hemsky Cogliano-Pouliot-Pisani Hall-Gagner-Brule Jones-Potulny-Stortini Stone (MPS-Eberle as injury recalls, which will keep them in the lineup a lot.)
Granted, it's not a great lineup and won't win many games. (Anyone who wants fights and or "grit" will shudder, though this is not so important IMO.) In particular, that second toughs line needs a star or at least a solid veteran on the LW, not Cogliano.
But, as poor as this lineup is, it's hard to imagine even getting there. Getting rid of all of Moreau, POS, Jacques, and Nilsson, and not starting the year with one of MPS or Eberle for PR purposes, will be pretty hard for Tamb. IMO.
The situation is only made more complicated if Omark is ready, if Comrie stays on for cheap, or if the Oilers get lucky and find some good, cheap UFA forwards.
Anyway, I just don't see how it plays out.
On the other hand, one way or another, it should be a pretty cheap lineup, with lots of minutes for the kids. And with some injury help, we could pick in the top 5 again.
For me, my firm Hall backing comes from the lack of people in the know out there saying Seguin is significantly better than Hall, whereas many hockey writers are touting Hall as significantly better.
The guys without NHL jobs at Central Scouting aside, it seems like there's only 2 schools of thought out there: That it's too close to call or that Hall is better.
Maybe it's that I don't think MacGregor's track record has really earned him "magnificent" status just yet, but I don't really want to see them gamble with a pick this big.
Actually, the more and more I think about it, the more and more I think the best soultion for this franchise is to really tank again for a top 3 pick by dealing Penner and Hemsky for picks, prospects, and really young RFA's.
Of course, there are other ways to rebuild, but does anyone here have the confidence in Tamb. to succeed in implementing them. By comparison, building with some top 3 picks is comparatively -though not totally- idiot proof.
danny: Horrendous was overstating it, but Savard/Hemsky share so many traits that overlap that Boston would get better with Hemsky, just not nearly enough to be worth it. I had a huge post explaining this further, but nobody cares.
Halak: I'll be damned, Montreal did the right thing and sold the guy at the top of his value curve. I'm impressed.
If I was to speculate, the return has to include Backes.
---- Jones sounds like he could make a good wingman for a sheltered young C in the bottom 6. Didn't know the details of his background until reading that article. Thank LT.
It's interesting how the perspective seems to be that Tambellini's power lies in giving Boston what they want (i.e. drafting Hall with the 2nd pick) when his shrewder move would be denying Boston Hall and selling them on the prospect of trading Seguin for what they really need (i.e. a scoring winger ala Penner or Hemsky).
Ultimately Seguin doesn't work for Boston unless they can make a subsequent trade for a winger for Savard, Krejci or Bergeron and who's to say what that does to their chemistry?
Having the 1st overall pick is not only an ideal opportunity for the Oil to add a franchise player. It's also an ideal opportunity to leverage against Boston. If Tambellini doesn't do it, it's an opportunity squandered.
Tambellini should not cede power to Chiarelli on this negotiation. If he does, what was the point of winning the lottery?
Why would we give up more than Jacques for Patrick Sharp? Sharp is nearly 29 years old, almost past his prime. Jacques is four and a half years younger, many teams would consider it a bonus to be able to employ him for that many more years!
Fierce: You're correct - I do remember there beign frustration in Nashville (from Jones) regarding ice time. And their roster has a lot of cheap depth forwards (according to Capgeek).
If they move someone, that could change things.
Still, at his salary, and the fact that he's played in the league, he's not a cinch to make to the AHL for a team with cap issues needing cheap talent to fill out their roster. If he could be a 4th liner/13th forward and do the work, I'd be ok with that at his salary.
The best their miracle worker could get on the trade market is a 21 year old who couldn't hit a point per game in the AHL and a 20 year old who was sent back to the dub? Halak is a very good goalie who is young enough to have some years before free agency who should be at the absolute peak of his value. Wow.
//The best their miracle worker could get on the trade market is a 21 year old who couldn't hit a point per game in the AHL and a 20 year old who was sent back to the dub? Halak is a very good goalie who is young enough to have some years before free agency who should be at the absolute peak of his value. Wow.\\
Halak's also an unsigned RFA one year from being unrestricted.
Oh, so you actually have to pay the guy who is conceivably your above average starter for the next 5-10 years? He's 25, injury free, and a career .920 goaltender. Eller's arrows are generally pointed downward and he is not on pace to be a player with offensive impact in the NHL and Schultz is a 20 year old who didn't dominate the WHL.
I don't see how the need to offer Halak a contract makes this good value on a trade.
Oilers general manager Steve Tambellini says teams continue to call, inquiring about what it might take to convince Edmonton to trade the first overall pick in next week's NHL Entry Draft.
Tambellini's response remains the same; he says he's not sure what it would take to move such a valuable asset, but he's willing to listen and consider all offers.
Change is imminent in Florida, as Dale Tallon prepares to rebuild the Panthers and won't be afraid to tear about his existing roster.
Young forwards Nathan Horton and Stephen Weiss are among those available. In fact, sources say star forward David Booth, 20-year-old defenceman Dmitry Kulikov, and prospect goaltender Jacob Markstrom are considered to be Florida's only untouchable players.
Tallon is likely to be among the most active GM's on the trade front next week, and with his past history with the Chicago Blackhawks and the 'Hawks pressing salary cap issues, some believe Florida will be ready and waiting, if Chicago offers Kris Versteeg, or another valued forward to create some relief.
Pre-draft trade speculation isn't complete without an update on Maple Leafs defenceman Tomas Kaberle and his future in Toronto.
Although teams continue to call, most are reluctant to table an offer before Kaberle's no-trade lifts at the draft, in fear Toronto will shop the proposal for a better offer.
As many as eight teams are expected to engage with Toronto, however, at the moment; teams are still trying to piece together what, or who, is legitimately available.
Showerhead: What teams don't already have a committed starter, can spare the money, and have any hope of competeting any time soon?
Anaheim, Boston, Buffalo, Carolina, Calgary, Chicago, Columbus, Colorado, Dallas, Detroit, Edmonton, Florida, Minnesota, Nashville, New Jersey, New York, New York, Ottawa, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, Toronto, Vancouver, and Washington all have significant dollars and/or term invested in the goaltending position, or a young player they're content to play as starter.
That leaves Atlanta, Los Angeles, Philly, San Jose, St Louis and Tampa. For whatever reason San Jose is likely to go with Nabby, if they don't go with the dirt cheap firesale option, like they should. Tampa likes Mike Smith, so they probably passed. LA likes their youth. Philly can't pay. Atlanta seems to like their kid in net.
Every team is either locked in with a starter or, at least, a highly regarded rookie and don't want to take a flyer on a guy they have to pay $3-4MM for a few years.
There's just no market for goaltending, as long as Edmonton already has long-term dollars invested. Once Khabi is off the books I'm sure we'll drive up the cost of doing business once again and then tell everyone that Tambellini is starting as GM, for real this time, promise.
Showerhead, Would MPS's arrows be going down if he came in under PPG in the AHL at 20 years old after coming over from Europe?
Would you trade him to Montreal for an unsigned goalie who's major chance to cash in is exactly one year and two weeks away...I'm not saying he'll only sign a one year deal, but still no one knows for sure except Halak.
The return (Eller, the other has no value at all) is good, He's big, slightly under PPG at 20 on a bad AHL team.
Just frustrates me they traded Halak. These morons keep saying ''Oh Price is the future blah blah blah, he's going to be better than Halak in some years''.
FFS, the difference between Halak and the best this year was oh so slight, there's 1% chance that Price goes over that, if he's over this year's Halak somehow at 25, well congratulations he'd be the Vezina trophy winner.
Halak did have a real nice 920+ sv% during the reg and playoffs.. I wonder if he picked up a tone of entitlement and it rubbed management the wrong way?! dunno.. the argument can be made that Montreal isnt an 8th place team with Halak starting the whole season... all because of an 'equal bird' in the bush?!..
As well as a canon to shoot POS and Nilson into the Sun
When did Johann Pachelbel become Bruins GM?
For me, my firm Hall backing comes from the lack of people in the know out there saying Seguin is significantly better than Hall, whereas many hockey writers are touting Hall as significantly better.
For me, my ambivalence comes from the fact that the writers who know drafting and prospects are predominantly saying "flip a coin."
unconfirmed: Halak for Lars Eller and Ian Schultz
Yaaaaaaaaaaaay!
a 20 year old who was sent back to the dub
Incorrect. Schlutz was 19 when he was sent back to the Dub; his birthday's in February. If he's sent back this year, it's a sign, but I don't see that happening. He's got size and a game that transfers well to the pros.
FPB: First off, you may want to learn a thing or two about a prospect before you judge him. Second, as for Halak, the bottom line is, he got lucky: he got goal support that Carey Price didn't during the season, and he had an absurd save percentage during the first two rounds of the playoffs while Price languished on the bench. Montreal sold high; good for them.
Now, they need to get Price back into the mental (and physical?) shape he was in before, when he looked like The Franchise Saviour. That kid's become a mess in Montreal; I hope they can fix him.
bookie: LOL - Just because I want the team to select the best, ready to step into the NHL player instead of the proverbial bird in hand, I'm a troll?
Hunter - the statement that I was responding to (attached below) does not make any arguments about the merits of one draft selection over another. It is simply a broad attack on the 'majority of posters in here' and suggests that somehow you possess superior reasoning. I can assure you that have never demonstrated such superior reasoning in your own posts, so I have to assume that your attacks are an effort to provoke a response from others - hence trolling.
I love how the majority of posters in here accept unequivocally that the Oilers accept the fact that they simply are not allowed to take the currently obvious BPA, such is the effect of a 20 year losing streak on the collective psyche of the fanbase.
Hunter, you're not troll-esque for wanting the Oilers to pick Hall.
You're troll-esque for the way you do it. Constantly making inflammatory remarks and doling out generous servings of ad hominem to anyone who might think otherwise; essentially equating anyone who disagrees with you to sheep or idiots. Add to the latter the fact that take every opportunity to post what can only be described as vitriol ad naseum and it's clear that Bookie has a solid grasp of the English language, its Internet colloquialisms, and he is accurate.
I think it's a shame really Hunter, since I rather used to enjoy the majority of your comments till you seemed to go off the deep end vis a vis Hall. I'm hoping that once the draft is over you'll return to a lucid state, either that or the meds will kick in, and you'll return to normal...well at least as normal as an Oilers fan is around here =).
Doogie: Wtf, his Regular season save % is still great. Learn to check all the stats before.
(Lifetime ,920%, this season ,924%)
''You may want to learn a thing or two about a prospect''
Are you completly blind?
I said : The return (Eller, the other has no value at all) is good, He's big, slightly under PPG at 20 on a bad AHL team.
Yeah, i can say Schultz has 0 value, because you can basically flip flop him with a lot of guys and it doesn't matter. I meant that Eller is the main return, and that it doesn't really matter if Schultz hits his ceiling or not, it's Eller who matters.
I don't think you can declare someone's level of ability established based on 100 NHL games, but that's just me. Maybe he's that good, maybe he isn't. His stats have been inconsistent to this point. You also haven't addressed the goal support comment, which has been borne out by Chris Boyle's work at Eyes on the Prize.
Eller being the lynchpin of this deal is irrelevant to Schultz's value. Schultz remains an asset, one with a good probability of turning into something (relative to the baseline of prospects), which means he has value now and down the road. Obviously, anything can happen with either prospect, which is why they're prospects, but I don't see where one has zero value where the other doesn't. I don't see where having another good two-way forward with size in the pipeline is a problem.
Doogie: Well, under PPG at 19-20 isn't my exact defintion of good prospect but heh.
Starting in the ECHL probably.
Halak has been consistently improving since his debut. And he has no loosing record ever.
Yeah, but for Price, JW posted a link on this and his consistency was subpar. Sometimes you make your own misery, if you can't goal well, your teamates aren't confident in front of you and don't get as much goal support.
I agree that Price is complicit in the failure of his own game to a degree (oh, that Montreal nightlife), but his teammates didn't help him this season. His and Halak's stats were dead even in the first half of the year, except for the W-L stats. Had a bad stretch in Jan-Feb, Halak took the reins, and that's all she wrote.
Scoring stats alone don't tell the story. Having actually watched the kid play (a ton), I'm pretty familiar with his game, and like I said, it should translate well to the pros. He's a good face-off guy (especially for a winger) and a fantastic penalty-killer: he was the go-to option for the 5-on-3, especially in the playoffs.
Sure, he didn't light it up like some of his teammates, but he still made a valuable contribution to them winning hockey games, and that's what's important.
The odd thing about this trade is that it also screws over Carey Price. I highly doubt he'll ever be very good in Montreal. He'd be just fine in STL or many other places but not in MTL. Just not his situation. Montreal's really sewered themselves here unless they plan on trading both goalies; which I suppose is possible.
As for the FLA prattle; Horton's got to be the target if Booth is off-limits.
Trolls come in all shapes and sizes. Every message board, forum, newsgroup, chat client, blog commenting circle, etc. has them and has had them since the dawn of the friggin' Al Gore. They aren't specifically from another faction or, in this case, team's fanbase. They are simply sh-t disturbers that make comments specifically to incite a reaction from the other posters, usually anger and frustration.
I wouldn't call you a troll, but I would call your consistently-voiced, polarized view on the TyTay situation to be trolling. We can all be guilty of trolling and, whether intentional or not, you have been lately.
Showerhead: What teams don't already have a committed starter, can spare the money, and have any hope of competeting any time soon.
This question, and the post that follows it, hits the issue dead on IMO. Thanks for your post - the fact that the market for goalies is saturated is an idea I can get behind.
A new question then: is the trade itself worth making if you're Montreal? You fill the system a little bit at forward and maybe you lose a point or two when Price's back-up plays. You also save on the cap. All this said, are the assets worth it? Could you increase your gain by shopping right through the draft? My instinct is yes to the latter, though of course I am not a GM.
Would MPS's arrows be going down if he came in under PPG in the AHL at 20 years old after coming over from Europe?
Short answer: in my opinion, yes. If no one gets around to it between now and when I get a minute, I'll compare Desjardins numbers for the SEL and AHL with his 09/10 point total at 19 and Eller's AHL total at 20. Maybe I'll be wrong but that seems to be the best way to measure.
If you wish to argue with a mirror feel do feel free to continue this deep(for you) debate.
Why do you presume that I see this as a 'deep' debate? Seriously Hunter, I deal with serious things most of my day and I actually come here just to have some fun and chat with others about the Oilers. This is pretty shallow stuff overall. I just get annoyed when somoe little shit disterber trolls (look it up) to the detrement of everyone else here.
"A troll is a member of a race of fearsome creatures from Norse mythology.
Originally more or less the Nordic equivalents of giants, although often smaller in size, the different depictions have come to range from the fiendish giants – similar to the ogres of England (also called Trolls at times, see Troller's Gill) – to a devious, more human-like folk of the wilderness, living underground in hills, caves or mounds. In the Faroe islands, Orkney and Shetland tales, trolls are called trows, adopted from the Norse language when these islands were settled by Vikings.
Nordic literature, art and music from the romantic era and onwards has adapted trolls in various manners – often in the form of an aboriginal race, endowed with oversized ears and noses."
In a perfect world, I'd likely have traded Price, but Halak wanted out, and that forced their hand. Given the goalie market, it was either that or take the offer-sheet compensation. Unless you expect St. Louis to be a lottery team this year (I don't), I would expect this to be the better value ($3M nets you a 2nd-rounder; $3.5-4M gets you a 1st and a 3rd).
MacKenzie suggested that San Jose was the other suitor, which would make sense if they're parting ways with Nabokov. Wonder what they might have been offering?
It's hard to say. We have too much quantity and not enough quality. Is Jones better or worse than Stone? Jacques? Moreau at this point? Stortini? Pouliot? Pisani? Potulny? This doesn't even get into the "skill" players.
For what it's worth this is what I see the forward lineup being come the first week of October:
Concerning the absences: the first three get moved, the next two are not re-signed, and Eberle starts in the AHL. Eberle starting down has more to do with team circumstances than inability, coupled with the likelihood that more seasoning the AHL won't hurt him.
This is subject to any forwards brought in who can handle the heavy lifting. Quite frankly unless the first line plays 30 minutes a night PvP against the other teams' top two scoring lines, this lineup will get killed at ES.
Look man, you admitted 3 weeks ago you had never seen Seguin play. Yet you come here everyday and complain about any discussion about him in the most outrageous terms.
Now you argue about whether you are a troll as if the strict application of the term would absolve you of poor behaviour.
once all the neighborhood kids took up partial ownership of the ol' clubhouse, LT never had to hang around to guard its door from those despised roaming mythical Nordic creatures..
For me, my firm Hall backing comes from the lack of people in the know out there saying Seguin is significantly better than Hall, whereas many hockey writers are touting Hall as significantly better.
He never asked for a trade all the time he's been screwed over by the organization.
He asked for a trade earlier this season when he wasn't getting as much ice time as Price. He wanted to either get minutes or get traded somewhere that he'd get minutes.
In any case, I recall a few people discussing what they thought Halak would get based on the playoff run, and the consensus was "more than he's actually worth". Montreal must have agreed, and they needed the cap space. This is a better return than they would have gotten on an offer sheet, so they might have done all right here. I would have preferred they keep Halak but one of them had to go and they gambled that Price would be the keeper.
jones scored 7 goals on the fourth line in Nashville.he's got size & some touch.I think he should be on a line with horcoff & brule.the oilers need to get rid of(buyout/trade for anything)Moreau,nilson,& o'sullivan,souray....the lines should be (1)gagner/hemsky/penner (2) hall or seguin/eberle/svenson (3)horcoff/brule/jones (4)checking centre(scot nichol ?)/stortini/jacques or another big bruiser.since they are rebuilding let's start now & get the kids playing together.jones on a checking line with horcoff & brule gives them a good 2 way/faceoff guy like horcoff with a skilled torpedo like brule gives you a solid checking line with some offensive upside.
This is Ryan Jones. He's working hard this summer and looking forward to training camp.
i'd slot him in the AHL.
ReplyDelete4th line winger
ReplyDeleteAt best: third line
ReplyDeleteMost likely: 13th forward drawing in for Storts
At worst: on the IR with Khabby
I was a little underwhelmed with him last season, but it was a pretty small sample so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
ReplyDeleteI think he's probably good enough to be the 4th line LW on this team, but he makes almost $1M and probably isn't a huge step up from a guy like Reddox who'll probably make closer to $500K. I could see him being put back on waivers if he doesn't have a good camp.
I'm just happy that he mentions that someone in the organization has communicated with him about expectations. That might be the first time I've heard positive comments about organizational communication in a while (since Tambo took over the 2nd time?). I think he'll make a good 4th liner if he's as healthy as he says.
ReplyDeleteAHL or 4th line and let him work his way up from there. Reddox is cheaper, but Jones is bigger and can play a more physical game.
ReplyDeleteOn a funny aside, I've read a lot of posts by Flyers fans that suggests doing Edmonton a 'favour' and 'giving' them Carter and Parent (or a nominal prospect) for the 1st overall pick and a RFA they'll have trouble signing and don't want like Gagner or perhaps Brule.
Yeah. 1st overall + Gagner for Carter and Parent. Good to see outlandish trade rumours touted by the masses around draft time, always entertaining.
Interesting comment from Chiarelli, suggesting what we've thought all along, that if the Oil and B's make a swap it will be a deal to "lay off" Hall:
ReplyDelete"I would think if I were to make a deal, I wouldn't get the No. 1 pick, I would get the player -- I know it's semantics -- but I don't know, I haven't had that type of discussion. I've had discussions with [Oilers GM] Steve [Tambellini], but it hasn't reached that point yet."
Key word there, being "yet".
We are a team lacking "grit" a player like Ryan Jones playing with Stortini wouldn't be a bad thing.
ReplyDelete4th line LW with some 2nd line PP time. He's probably the best at deflections on the team.
ReplyDeleteJones is kind of a forgotten man in the ridiculous log jam at forward. If you count UFAs like Pisani and Comrie who could at least theoretically return, there are currently 17 NHL forwards hanging around, plus four prospects with at least some chance of making it.
ReplyDeleteHe's had almost no chance to make an impression. He's a genuine power forward if he can ever stay healthy and find some traction in the NHL. I have no idea whether he'll really get that opportunity this fall. I'd take him in a microsecond over Jacques or Stone, but he doesn't seem to be above them on the current organizational depth chart. It does seem safe to pencil him in as a 13th/14th forward at this point.
Ideally, if genuinely healthy and able to stay that way, he could provide some decent jam and a little bit of complementary scoring at 3L. I'd certainly prefer him to, e.g., Stone there - a notch less size and abrasiveness, but way more footspeed, still plenty of smack, and potentially capable of chipping in 15 goals.
If for whatever reason we don't want him, I don't see any way he plays in the AHL. He has a one way contract and all things being equal someone is going to want to give him another shot. There's probably a 20-25 goal power forward in there if he was ever to stay healthy and get in the right situation. Unlikely to happen, but if he's healthy I'd like him in the bottom six ahead of either Stone or Jacques.
Jones brings some interesting things to the table.
ReplyDeleteHe is one of only a handful of players ever to be a three year Captain of an NCAA hockey team, so he has leadership. He scores garbage goals from high traffic areas which isn't a common skill set on the Oilers. He scores big goals (set the all time Miami University record for game winning goals). He likes to bang and crash and force the puck to the net. He knows where he is weak (ie. skating and positioning)and is prepared to work hard to fix the problems. He also can play the role of agitator.
Essentially his career is tracking a bit like Jon Sim, a crusty guy who can score and gets under the other teams skin. If we unload Moreau then Jones is the obvious 3L if we draft Seguin and the 4L if we take Hall. If we keep Moreau and draft Hall Jones falls to 13th forward. Which would be further proof that live just isn't fair.
Moose brought it up first but Boston are probably obligated to do something to try and get their guy.
ReplyDeleteThe PR aspect would look bad if they just sat back and hoped for the right result
like seemingly everyone else here, haven't seen enough of him to really know. sample size is way too small.
ReplyDeletesince he's on a one-way contract the options are pretty limited. he'll be played on the 3rd or 4th line and either win a spot or get traded.
it seems like he's better than any of the fourth line options, so he'll probably end up there.
Bostons 'right guy' is Hemsky.
ReplyDeleteLike most people here I think he'll be somewhere in the bottom six and at worst a 13th guy.
ReplyDeleteHe seems to have ok size and is most likely a PK option.
I keep forgetting about guys like this who were in the lineup at one point last season. There are lots of decisions to be made and it should be an interesting camp with too many guys for not enough jobs.
@danny......there was some chatter on the Oilers Lunch yesterday about Hemmer being offered to Boston, but i didn't hear for what?
ReplyDelete@danny......there was some chatter on the Oilers Lunch yesterday about Hemmer being offered to Boston, but i didn't hear for what?
ReplyDeleteFor Ryder and the 2nd overall. As well as a canon to shoot POS and Nilson into the Sun
Dug, no idea about oilers lunch, i just think if Boston are willing to trade the #2 + Ryder for Hemsky and a conditional 1st in 2012, it makes a lot of sense for both sides. The conditional pick would hinge on Hemsky resigning with Boston.If he doesnt they get most likely a top 10 pick anyhow. If hemsky resigns it downgrades to a 2nd rnd pick.
ReplyDeleteBoston came to within 1 goal of the conference finals this year, and need scoring on the wing. Best case scenario, they resign hemsky and add an 2nd rnd pick, worst case they get 2 years of Hemsky for their cup run, and add a 1st rounder in 2012.
In a 2001 re-draft, Hemsky is an easy top 3 pick. Theres no Guarantee the 2nd overall this year will be a top 3 re-draft pick.
Edmonton diminishes the risk of losing hemsky in 2 years, and secures a lottery pick next season in addition to the 1+2 this season. They can afford to lose their 2012 1st rounder at that stage.
just my opinion, but I have to be honest im terrified of Hemsky walking in two years. His peak trade value is now IMO.
Jones fits as a 4th liner. If we tried to send him to OKC, he'd have to clear waivers and chances are good Nashville would take him back as they were trying to sneak him down when we picked him up.
ReplyDeleteHe's a cheap enough contract that Nashville would take him back.
So it's 4th line here, trade add on, or Nashville. He won't be in the AHL for us cause he won't make it.
I love how the majority of posters in here accept unequivocally that the Oilers accept the fact that they simply are not allowed to take the currently obvious BPA, such is the effect of a 20 year losing streak on the collective psyche of the fanbase.
ReplyDeleteI'd do that trade, I just have no idea why Boston would. Why not just offer the moon to get Hall, who is a substantially better fit than Hemsky to a team full of centers (Savard-Hemsky would be a horrendous duo.) I think, at max, 15th + Wheeler + some ancillary picks probably gets Edmonton to lay off Hall. I'd rather trade that package than Seguin for Hemsky and picks, if I'm Boston.
ReplyDeleteHe would look good on a line with Horcoff and Stortini.
ReplyDeleteI have him as a 4th liner or drinking coffee...
ReplyDeleteSettle the top two lines with Horcoff, Hemsky, Penner, Gagner, Kid and a straggler from the Cogs/POS/Nilsson/Comrie camp after the expected exodus.
I'd get a vet 3rd line winger AND center (though I fear that vet winger might just end up being Ethan) to play with Brule.
As for the 4th line, I'd say let Jacques walk or ply his trade with the Barons, then let Stone and Jones battle it on LW, Pouliot and Potulny battle it out for 4th line C, and give Stortini his spot at 4th line RW because he plays the role perfectly for us.
Conversely I think Potulny or Pouliot might have it in em to be the 3rd line C we play with Brule.
...
Paajarvi-Horcoff-Hemsky
Penner-Gagner-Cogliano
Moreau-(Malhotra)-Brule
Jones-Potulny-Stortini
Stone/Pouliot
hunter:
ReplyDeleteLets see your top 30.
@hunter1909
ReplyDeleteI love how the Hall backers unequivocally won't accept that there is so little that divides the 2 players even in the eyes of scouts and won't allow for any other opinion than their own.
I don't back either, I just back McGregor, because of what I just said. Development and personality are on Seguins side, achievements and attitude on Halls. Both will be excellent. The strange part to me is the stuborness on the side of Halls supporters and the openness of Seguins.
Repeat, I would be ecstatic with either.... But if we pick Seguin and the city calls bloody murder I'm gonna lose my shit with this fanbase.
Sorry, OT, but Bertuzzi resigned by Detroit for 2 years for 3.875M (1.9375M cap hit)
ReplyDeleteI know he played 82 games last year and had a good playoff, but what are the chances he repeats that again?
Holland has made some questionable moves over the last few years, but this one takes the cake.
dago:
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure the waiver pick-up was a sneaky move to send some cash Nashville's way. Mudcrutch picked up on it at the deadline, but nothing much else came of it.
Also there seems to be a poor relationship between Jones and NAS, from the article:
The 2004 fourth-round draft pick of the Minnesota Wild has little to say about being waived by the Predators.
"I don't want to comment too much on it," Jones said. "Just not a ton of opportunities."
Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but the tone of the article leads me to believe the Preds were flipping a guy they didn't like and Ty's bit makes me think they flipped him for cash.
quain: I think youre being a little dramatic with the word 'horrendous' no?
ReplyDeletesecond, BOS doesnt have the 1st pick. Edmonton does, so if they pick Hall 1st overall, how horrendous is seguin/savard ?
Anyways im not going to argue the merits of a trade idea. If you think its 'horrendous' so be it. I think the value is pretty close, and something that would help both teams in its own way.
Cheers.
I love how the majority of posters in here accept unequivocally that the Oilers accept the fact that they simply are not allowed to take the currently obvious BPA, such is the effect of a 20 year losing streak on the collective psyche of the fanbase.
ReplyDeleteHunter, you either have psychological problems or you are just a troll - take your meds if its A, don't bother if its B.
Ignore the troll folks.
give Jones third line minutes and some 2nd PP time to see if he pops a few goals garbage goals the article says he can generate.
ReplyDeleteGet him to work on his positioning and maybe he'll be able to kill penalties too.
Re: Jones
ReplyDeleteCan he play D?
@danny......there was some chatter on the Oilers Lunch yesterday about Hemmer being offered to Boston, but i didn't hear for what?
ReplyDeleteSomeone (Brownlee??) suggested Hemsky + MPS for 2nd OV + bad contract.
Its a terrible proposition as MPS has a good chance to be as good, if not better than Hall.
Hall was great all year and in the Memorial cup again...vs other teenagers.
Here is the list of All Stars from the World Cup:
Goalkeeper: Dennis Endras (GER)
Defenceman: Petteri Nummelin (FIN)
Defenceman: Christian Ehrhoff (GER)
Forward: Pavel Datsyuk (RUS)
Forward: Evgeni Malkin (RUS)
Forward: Magnus Pääjärvi-Svensson (SWE)
Some interesting company he is keeping there.
An AllStar among men at the World's and people are "throwing him in" trades for someone who may not be as good as him.
Good Grief.
If Hemsky (who is a very, very, very good man) is cold on re-signing then I can see a trade to Bos along with others for the 2OV pick, but + MPS?? Not if you are sane.
Also,
Unless you work for the Oilers you slot Ryan Jones ahead of JFJ, may beat out Stone too.
If your LW are Penner,MPS, Hall, then there is one spot to grab (assuming MPS doesn't go to the AHL).
If your LW are Penner, MPS, ?,? and JFJ, Stone and Jones duke it out, I'd wager he sticks with the team.
All assuming thecaptainethanmoreau is the theboughtoutortradedehtanmoreau.
Jones plays bigger than his height and looks like an alright skater but I doubt he's anything more than a 4th liner.
ReplyDeleteThe glaring needs are a checking line and a pivot at the top so I"m not gonna worry too much about the 4th liners until we have some 3rd liners to compliment all the youth and flash we have up front.
Re: Jones
ReplyDeleteCan he play D?
I don't think he can play D,but I thought I read that Aaron Johnson could play LW.
MPS has a good chance to be as good, if not better than Hall.
ReplyDeleteYeah he's good but no.
I would slot Ryan Jones as our starting goaltender and player-coach.
ReplyDeleteExpect the unexpected.
----
I'm really interested to know more about what management will do with the glut of forwards and forward prospects. The problem has reached critical mass.
Here's what I mean. I sort of like the following lineup, though you probably have to alter it if you take Seguin.
Penner-Horcoff-Hemsky
Cogliano-Pouliot-Pisani
Hall-Gagner-Brule
Jones-Potulny-Stortini
Stone
(MPS-Eberle as injury recalls, which will keep them in the lineup a lot.)
Granted, it's not a great lineup and won't win many games. (Anyone who wants fights and or "grit" will shudder, though this is not so important IMO.) In particular, that second toughs line needs a star or at least a solid veteran on the LW, not Cogliano.
But, as poor as this lineup is, it's hard to imagine even getting there. Getting rid of all of Moreau, POS, Jacques, and Nilsson, and not starting the year with one of MPS or Eberle for PR purposes, will be pretty hard for Tamb. IMO.
The situation is only made more complicated if Omark is ready, if Comrie stays on for cheap, or if the Oilers get lucky and find some good, cheap UFA forwards.
Anyway, I just don't see how it plays out.
On the other hand, one way or another, it should be a pretty cheap lineup, with lots of minutes for the kids. And with some injury help, we could pick in the top 5 again.
@Acumen
ReplyDeleteFor me, my firm Hall backing comes from the lack of people in the know out there saying Seguin is significantly better than Hall, whereas many hockey writers are touting Hall as significantly better.
The guys without NHL jobs at Central Scouting aside, it seems like there's only 2 schools of thought out there: That it's too close to call or that Hall is better.
Maybe it's that I don't think MacGregor's track record has really earned him "magnificent" status just yet, but I don't really want to see them gamble with a pick this big.
Halak traded to St. Louis Blues.
ReplyDeleteHalak traded to St.Louis?
ReplyDeleteActually, the more and more I think about it, the more and more I think the best soultion for this franchise is to really tank again for a top 3 pick by dealing Penner and Hemsky for picks, prospects, and really young RFA's.
ReplyDeleteOf course, there are other ways to rebuild, but does anyone here have the confidence in Tamb. to succeed in implementing them. By comparison, building with some top 3 picks is comparatively -though not totally- idiot proof.
"many hockey writers are touting Hall as significantly better."
ReplyDeleteThis is true, but 30 Helens agree: When two players seem equal, draft the center.
And hockey writers are mostly idiots.
Ed: Done deal, according to Bobby Mack.
ReplyDeleteWonder what the return will be...
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ReplyDeletedanny:
ReplyDeleteHorrendous was overstating it, but Savard/Hemsky share so many traits that overlap that Boston would get better with Hemsky, just not nearly enough to be worth it. I had a huge post explaining this further, but nobody cares.
Halak: I'll be damned, Montreal did the right thing and sold the guy at the top of his value curve. I'm impressed.
"if the Oilers get lucky and find some good, cheap UFA forwards."
ReplyDeletei think almost all of whatever UFA money the oilers are willing to spend should be going to defense.
"if the Oilers get lucky and find some good, cheap UFA forwards."
ReplyDeletei think almost all of whatever UFA money the oilers are willing to spend should be going to defense.
Things that make you go hmm.
ReplyDeleteYeah he's good but no.
ReplyDeleteReason?
unconfirmed: Halak for Lars Eller and Ian Schultz
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIf I was to speculate, the return has to include Backes.
ReplyDelete----
Jones sounds like he could make a good wingman for a sheltered young C in the bottom 6. Didn't know the details of his background until reading that article. Thank LT.
ESPN sez its Eller and Schultz
ReplyDeleteGuess that will quell the Jacques plus POS for Price talk.
ReplyDeleteNext up. Jacques plus other garbage for Patrick Sharp.
Starting .... now!
It's interesting how the perspective seems to be that Tambellini's power lies in giving Boston what they want (i.e. drafting Hall with the 2nd pick) when his shrewder move would be denying Boston Hall and selling them on the prospect of trading Seguin for what they really need (i.e. a scoring winger ala Penner or Hemsky).
ReplyDeleteUltimately Seguin doesn't work for Boston unless they can make a subsequent trade for a winger for Savard, Krejci or Bergeron and who's to say what that does to their chemistry?
Having the 1st overall pick is not only an ideal opportunity for the Oil to add a franchise player. It's also an ideal opportunity to leverage against Boston. If Tambellini doesn't do it, it's an opportunity squandered.
Tambellini should not cede power to Chiarelli on this negotiation. If he does, what was the point of winning the lottery?
Why would we give up more than Jacques for Patrick Sharp? Sharp is nearly 29 years old, almost past his prime. Jacques is four and a half years younger, many teams would consider it a bonus to be able to employ him for that many more years!
ReplyDeleteFierce: You're correct - I do remember there beign frustration in Nashville (from Jones) regarding ice time. And their roster has a lot of cheap depth forwards (according to Capgeek).
ReplyDeleteIf they move someone, that could change things.
Still, at his salary, and the fact that he's played in the league, he's not a cinch to make to the AHL for a team with cap issues needing cheap talent to fill out their roster. If he could be a 4th liner/13th forward and do the work, I'd be ok with that at his salary.
lol, the Halak trade has crashed TSNs website. funny stuff.
ReplyDeleteReason?
ReplyDeleteMore offense. Pedigree. Good old Canadian boy etc.
Whoever the Oilers take this draft will be their best player going forward. Eberle and MPS will be nice complements.
Re: Halak - SERIOUSLY?
ReplyDeleteThe best their miracle worker could get on the trade market is a 21 year old who couldn't hit a point per game in the AHL and a 20 year old who was sent back to the dub? Halak is a very good goalie who is young enough to have some years before free agency who should be at the absolute peak of his value. Wow.
//The best their miracle worker could get on the trade market is a 21 year old who couldn't hit a point per game in the AHL and a 20 year old who was sent back to the dub? Halak is a very good goalie who is young enough to have some years before free agency who should be at the absolute peak of his value. Wow.\\
ReplyDeleteHalak's also an unsigned RFA one year from being unrestricted.
"his shrewder move would be denying Boston Hall and selling them on the prospect of trading Seguin for what they really need"
ReplyDeletethat doesn't work because if boston is thinking that way about seguin there are many other teams they can trade the pick to other than the oilers.
entertaining thinking tho.
Oh, so you actually have to pay the guy who is conceivably your above average starter for the next 5-10 years? He's 25, injury free, and a career .920 goaltender. Eller's arrows are generally pointed downward and he is not on pace to be a player with offensive impact in the NHL and Schultz is a 20 year old who didn't dominate the WHL.
ReplyDeleteI don't see how the need to offer Halak a contract makes this good value on a trade.
Interesting bits from Dreger:
ReplyDeleteOilers general manager Steve Tambellini says teams continue to call, inquiring about what it might take to convince Edmonton to trade the first overall pick in next week's NHL Entry Draft.
Tambellini's response remains the same; he says he's not sure what it would take to move such a valuable asset, but he's willing to listen and consider all offers.
Change is imminent in Florida, as Dale Tallon prepares to rebuild the Panthers and won't be afraid to tear about his existing roster.
Young forwards Nathan Horton and Stephen Weiss are among those available. In fact, sources say star forward David Booth, 20-year-old defenceman Dmitry Kulikov, and prospect goaltender Jacob Markstrom are considered to be Florida's only untouchable players.
Tallon is likely to be among the most active GM's on the trade front next week, and with his past history with the Chicago Blackhawks and the 'Hawks pressing salary cap issues, some believe Florida will be ready and waiting, if Chicago offers Kris Versteeg, or another valued forward to create some relief.
Pre-draft trade speculation isn't complete without an update on Maple Leafs defenceman Tomas Kaberle and his future in Toronto.
Although teams continue to call, most are reluctant to table an offer before Kaberle's no-trade lifts at the draft, in fear Toronto will shop the proposal for a better offer.
As many as eight teams are expected to engage with Toronto, however, at the moment; teams are still trying to piece together what, or who, is legitimately available.
Showerhead: What teams don't already have a committed starter, can spare the money, and have any hope of competeting any time soon?
ReplyDeleteAnaheim, Boston, Buffalo, Carolina, Calgary, Chicago, Columbus, Colorado, Dallas, Detroit, Edmonton, Florida, Minnesota, Nashville, New Jersey, New York, New York, Ottawa, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, Toronto, Vancouver, and Washington all have significant dollars and/or term invested in the goaltending position, or a young player they're content to play as starter.
That leaves Atlanta, Los Angeles, Philly, San Jose, St Louis and Tampa. For whatever reason San Jose is likely to go with Nabby, if they don't go with the dirt cheap firesale option, like they should. Tampa likes Mike Smith, so they probably passed. LA likes their youth. Philly can't pay. Atlanta seems to like their kid in net.
Every team is either locked in with a starter or, at least, a highly regarded rookie and don't want to take a flyer on a guy they have to pay $3-4MM for a few years.
There's just no market for goaltending, as long as Edmonton already has long-term dollars invested. Once Khabi is off the books I'm sure we'll drive up the cost of doing business once again and then tell everyone that Tambellini is starting as GM, for real this time, promise.
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ReplyDeleteShowerhead,
ReplyDeleteWould MPS's arrows be going down if he came in under PPG in the AHL at 20 years old after coming over from Europe?
Would you trade him to Montreal for an unsigned goalie who's major chance to cash in is exactly one year and two weeks away...I'm not saying he'll only sign a one year deal, but still no one knows for sure except Halak.
Fuck Pierre Gauthier.
ReplyDeleteThe return (Eller, the other has no value at all) is good, He's big, slightly under PPG at 20 on a bad AHL team.
Just frustrates me they traded Halak. These morons keep saying ''Oh Price is the future blah blah blah, he's going to be better than Halak in some years''.
FFS, the difference between Halak and the best this year was oh so slight, there's 1% chance that Price goes over that, if he's over this year's Halak somehow at 25, well congratulations he'd be the Vezina trophy winner.
More offense. Pedigree. Good old Canadian boy etc.
ReplyDeleteFair enough.
We'll bet 1 Billion Belfor Bucks on their career totals.
Also,
Halak hahahahaha!
If Tambellini made that deal things would be burning on Kingsway Ave.
Halak did have a real nice 920+ sv% during the reg and playoffs.. I wonder if he picked up a tone of entitlement and it rubbed management the wrong way?! dunno.. the argument can be made that Montreal isnt an 8th place team with Halak starting the whole season... all because of an 'equal bird' in the bush?!..
ReplyDeleteSomething had to give tho,..
decision made...
Hey if Hall/Seguin pan out as top picks should and MPS is better then that then I'll be happy to spot you 2 billion Belfour bucks.
ReplyDeleteAs for the Habs. Goalies just don't go for much anymore it seems.
Oilers should go hard after Weiss and Vokoun and then they can take Hall. :)
bookie: LOL - Just because I want the team to select the best, ready to step into the NHL player instead of the proverbial bird in hand, I'm a troll?
ReplyDeleteYou seriously need to learn how to comprehend the English language, you really do.
As well as a canon to shoot POS and Nilson into the Sun
ReplyDeleteWhen did Johann Pachelbel become Bruins GM?
For me, my firm Hall backing comes from the lack of people in the know out there saying Seguin is significantly better than Hall, whereas many hockey writers are touting Hall as significantly better.
For me, my ambivalence comes from the fact that the writers who know drafting and prospects are predominantly saying "flip a coin."
unconfirmed: Halak for Lars Eller and Ian Schultz
Yaaaaaaaaaaaay!
a 20 year old who was sent back to the dub
Incorrect. Schlutz was 19 when he was sent back to the Dub; his birthday's in February. If he's sent back this year, it's a sign, but I don't see that happening. He's got size and a game that transfers well to the pros.
FPB: First off, you may want to learn a thing or two about a prospect before you judge him. Second, as for Halak, the bottom line is, he got lucky: he got goal support that Carey Price didn't during the season, and he had an absurd save percentage during the first two rounds of the playoffs while Price languished on the bench. Montreal sold high; good for them.
ReplyDeleteNow, they need to get Price back into the mental (and physical?) shape he was in before, when he looked like The Franchise Saviour. That kid's become a mess in Montreal; I hope they can fix him.
You seriously need to learn how to comprehend the English language, you really do.
ReplyDeletePot, kettle, black.
bookie: LOL - Just because I want the team to select the best, ready to step into the NHL player instead of the proverbial bird in hand, I'm a troll?
ReplyDeleteHunter - the statement that I was responding to (attached below) does not make any arguments about the merits of one draft selection over another. It is simply a broad attack on the 'majority of posters in here' and suggests that somehow you possess superior reasoning. I can assure you that have never demonstrated such superior reasoning in your own posts, so I have to assume that your attacks are an effort to provoke a response from others - hence trolling.
I love how the majority of posters in here accept unequivocally that the Oilers accept the fact that they simply are not allowed to take the currently obvious BPA, such is the effect of a 20 year losing streak on the collective psyche of the fanbase.
Hunter, you're not troll-esque for wanting the Oilers to pick Hall.
ReplyDeleteYou're troll-esque for the way you do it. Constantly making inflammatory remarks and doling out generous servings of ad hominem to anyone who might think otherwise; essentially equating anyone who disagrees with you to sheep or idiots. Add to the latter the fact that take every opportunity to post what can only be described as vitriol ad naseum and it's clear that Bookie has a solid grasp of the English language, its Internet colloquialisms, and he is accurate.
I think it's a shame really Hunter, since I rather used to enjoy the majority of your comments till you seemed to go off the deep end vis a vis Hall. I'm hoping that once the draft is over you'll return to a lucid state, either that or the meds will kick in, and you'll return to normal...well at least as normal as an Oilers fan is around here =).
Doogie: Wtf, his Regular season save % is still great. Learn to check all the stats before.
ReplyDelete(Lifetime ,920%, this season ,924%)
''You may want to learn a thing or two about a prospect''
Are you completly blind?
I said : The return (Eller, the other has no value at all) is good, He's big, slightly under PPG at 20 on a bad AHL team.
Yeah, i can say Schultz has 0 value, because you can basically flip flop him with a lot of guys and it doesn't matter. I meant that Eller is the main return, and that it doesn't really matter if Schultz hits his ceiling or not, it's Eller who matters.
Doogie: Price made his own mess, he was given every opportunity he could have had.
ReplyDeleteI don't think you can declare someone's level of ability established based on 100 NHL games, but that's just me. Maybe he's that good, maybe he isn't. His stats have been inconsistent to this point. You also haven't addressed the goal support comment, which has been borne out by Chris Boyle's work at Eyes on the Prize.
ReplyDeleteEller being the lynchpin of this deal is irrelevant to Schultz's value. Schultz remains an asset, one with a good probability of turning into something (relative to the baseline of prospects), which means he has value now and down the road. Obviously, anything can happen with either prospect, which is why they're prospects, but I don't see where one has zero value where the other doesn't. I don't see where having another good two-way forward with size in the pipeline is a problem.
Doogie: Well, under PPG at 19-20 isn't my exact defintion of good prospect but heh.
ReplyDeleteStarting in the ECHL probably.
Halak has been consistently improving since his debut. And he has no loosing record ever.
Yeah, but for Price, JW posted a link on this and his consistency was subpar. Sometimes you make your own misery, if you can't goal well, your teamates aren't confident in front of you and don't get as much goal support.
I agree that Price is complicit in the failure of his own game to a degree (oh, that Montreal nightlife), but his teammates didn't help him this season. His and Halak's stats were dead even in the first half of the year, except for the W-L stats. Had a bad stretch in Jan-Feb, Halak took the reins, and that's all she wrote.
ReplyDeletebookie - I'm an Oilers fan. Trolls are fans of other teams who try to wind up fans of another team, therefore you're totally full of shit.
ReplyDeleteIf you wish to argue with a mirror feel do feel free to continue this deep(for you) debate.
Scoring stats alone don't tell the story. Having actually watched the kid play (a ton), I'm pretty familiar with his game, and like I said, it should translate well to the pros. He's a good face-off guy (especially for a winger) and a fantastic penalty-killer: he was the go-to option for the 5-on-3, especially in the playoffs.
ReplyDeleteSure, he didn't light it up like some of his teammates, but he still made a valuable contribution to them winning hockey games, and that's what's important.
Actually, come to think of it, I think Schultz lined up at centre more than wing this year. Certainly, he did during the playoffs.
ReplyDeleteThe odd thing about this trade is that it also screws over Carey Price. I highly doubt he'll ever be very good in Montreal. He'd be just fine in STL or many other places but not in MTL. Just not his situation. Montreal's really sewered themselves here unless they plan on trading both goalies; which I suppose is possible.
ReplyDeleteAs for the FLA prattle; Horton's got to be the target if Booth is off-limits.
Hunter:
ReplyDeleteTrolls come in all shapes and sizes. Every message board, forum, newsgroup, chat client, blog commenting circle, etc. has them and has had them since the dawn of the friggin' Al Gore. They aren't specifically from another faction or, in this case, team's fanbase. They are simply sh-t disturbers that make comments specifically to incite a reaction from the other posters, usually anger and frustration.
I wouldn't call you a troll, but I would call your consistently-voiced, polarized view on the TyTay situation to be trolling. We can all be guilty of trolling and, whether intentional or not, you have been lately.
Showerhead: What teams don't already have a committed starter, can spare the money, and have any hope of competeting any time soon.
ReplyDeleteThis question, and the post that follows it, hits the issue dead on IMO. Thanks for your post - the fact that the market for goalies is saturated is an idea I can get behind.
A new question then: is the trade itself worth making if you're Montreal? You fill the system a little bit at forward and maybe you lose a point or two when Price's back-up plays. You also save on the cap. All this said, are the assets worth it? Could you increase your gain by shopping right through the draft? My instinct is yes to the latter, though of course I am not a GM.
Would MPS's arrows be going down if he came in under PPG in the AHL at 20 years old after coming over from Europe?
Short answer: in my opinion, yes. If no one gets around to it between now and when I get a minute, I'll compare Desjardins numbers for the SEL and AHL with his 09/10 point total at 19 and Eller's AHL total at 20. Maybe I'll be wrong but that seems to be the best way to measure.
If you wish to argue with a mirror feel do feel free to continue this deep(for you) debate.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you presume that I see this as a 'deep' debate? Seriously Hunter, I deal with serious things most of my day and I actually come here just to have some fun and chat with others about the Oilers. This is pretty shallow stuff overall. I just get annoyed when somoe little shit disterber trolls (look it up) to the detrement of everyone else here.
Bookie,
ReplyDeleteI looked it up. According to Wikipedia:
"A troll is a member of a race of fearsome creatures from Norse mythology.
Originally more or less the Nordic equivalents of giants, although often smaller in size, the different depictions have come to range from the fiendish giants – similar to the ogres of England (also called Trolls at times, see Troller's Gill) – to a devious, more human-like folk of the wilderness, living underground in hills, caves or mounds. In the Faroe islands, Orkney and Shetland tales, trolls are called trows, adopted from the Norse language when these islands were settled by Vikings.
Nordic literature, art and music from the romantic era and onwards has adapted trolls in various manners – often in the form of an aboriginal race, endowed with oversized ears and noses."
That sounds like Hunter to me.
In a perfect world, I'd likely have traded Price, but Halak wanted out, and that forced their hand. Given the goalie market, it was either that or take the offer-sheet compensation. Unless you expect St. Louis to be a lottery team this year (I don't), I would expect this to be the better value ($3M nets you a 2nd-rounder; $3.5-4M gets you a 1st and a 3rd).
ReplyDeleteMacKenzie suggested that San Jose was the other suitor, which would make sense if they're parting ways with Nabokov. Wonder what they might have been offering?
Anyone know who's behind the Oilers Report on Twitter? They're claiming new Ass-GM before the 25th...
ReplyDeleteIt's hard to say. We have too much quantity and not enough quality. Is Jones better or worse than Stone? Jacques? Moreau at this point? Stortini? Pouliot? Pisani? Potulny? This doesn't even get into the "skill" players.
ReplyDeleteFor what it's worth this is what I see the forward lineup being come the first week of October:
Penner-Horcoff-Hemsky
Hall-Gagner-Brule
Paajarvi-Pouliot-Stone
Omark-Potulny-Stortini/Jones
Extra: Jones/Stortini
Notable absences: Nilsson, O'Sullivan, Moreau, Pisani, Comrie, Eberle.
Concerning the absences: the first three get moved, the next two are not re-signed, and Eberle starts in the AHL. Eberle starting down has more to do with team circumstances than inability, coupled with the likelihood that more seasoning the AHL won't hurt him.
This is subject to any forwards brought in who can handle the heavy lifting. Quite frankly unless the first line plays 30 minutes a night PvP against the other teams' top two scoring lines, this lineup will get killed at ES.
Lost in the shuffle apparently was Cogliano. Put him under notable absences moved off the team.
ReplyDelete@ hunter
ReplyDeleteLook man, you admitted 3 weeks ago you had never seen Seguin play. Yet you come here everyday and complain about any discussion about him in the most outrageous terms.
Now you argue about whether you are a troll as if the strict application of the term would absolve you of poor behaviour.
Wake up or go away.
This is subject to any forwards brought in who can handle the heavy lifting.
ReplyDeleteWhich is why bringing in Weiss should be explored.
No idea what Tallon wants, but you have to look into it, even if you plan on Seguin.
Too many good centers isn't a problem.
once all the neighborhood kids took up partial ownership of the ol' clubhouse, LT never had to hang around to guard its door from those despised roaming mythical Nordic creatures..
ReplyDeleteOilmaniac: Amen.
ReplyDeleteFor me, my firm Hall backing comes from the lack of people in the know out there saying Seguin is significantly better than Hall, whereas many hockey writers are touting Hall as significantly better.
ReplyDeleteSee also argumentum ad temperantiam.
When did Johann Pachelbel become Bruins GM?
ReplyDeleteOff-topic, but awesome
Anyone know who's behind the Oilers Report on Twitter? They're claiming new Ass-GM before the 25th...
ReplyDeleteGregor and Tencer have been reporting Scott Bonner is the guy at the head of the line for weeks now. He should be a good guy to have around.
Doogie: Where the hell have you seen that Halak wanted out?
ReplyDeleteHe never asked for a trade all the time he's been screwed over by the organization.
I'm not watching these fucking clowns anymore.
Globe and Mail and about a dozen other places, if you're paying attention.
"Anonymous danny said...
ReplyDeleteBostons 'right guy' is Hemsky."
Nope, he's not.
Alice fits in Beantown like a cat belongs at the Westminster Dog Show.
Penner tho!? would give boston even more size up front..
ReplyDeleteRibs:
ReplyDeleteI heard Bonner soured on the position because the duties are supposed to be primarily AHL-related.
He never asked for a trade all the time he's been screwed over by the organization.
ReplyDeleteHe asked for a trade earlier this season when he wasn't getting as much ice time as Price. He wanted to either get minutes or get traded somewhere that he'd get minutes.
In any case, I recall a few people discussing what they thought Halak would get based on the playoff run, and the consensus was "more than he's actually worth". Montreal must have agreed, and they needed the cap space. This is a better return than they would have gotten on an offer sheet, so they might have done all right here. I would have preferred they keep Halak but one of them had to go and they gambled that Price would be the keeper.
I'm sure the giant bags of Katz money probably changed his mind.
ReplyDeletejones scored 7 goals on the fourth line in Nashville.he's got size & some touch.I think he should be on a line with horcoff & brule.the oilers need to get rid of(buyout/trade for anything)Moreau,nilson,& o'sullivan,souray....the lines should be (1)gagner/hemsky/penner (2) hall or seguin/eberle/svenson (3)horcoff/brule/jones (4)checking centre(scot nichol ?)/stortini/jacques or another big bruiser.since they are rebuilding let's start now & get the kids playing together.jones on a checking line with horcoff & brule gives them a good 2 way/faceoff guy like horcoff with a skilled torpedo like brule gives you a solid checking line with some offensive upside.
ReplyDelete