A lot has changed since I did the December top 20 and even more has gone down since last summer's entry draft. Last year I did a top 20 (pre-draft) on June 1 and had planned on doing it again this June 1. However, an important family issue means there will be little time on the weekend and I wanted to get this right while there was time.
Graduated from last summer's list: G Jeff Deslauriers, C Rob Schremp, D Cody Wild.
- L Magnus Paarjarvi-Svensson. His NHLE (82gp, 16-22-38) from the SEL last season suggests he is probably NHL ready (certainly ready for this edition of the Oilers). His impressive WJ's and WHC performances added to his fame and Oiler fans await news that he is signed and coming to camp. Best LW to come through the system since Ryan Smyth.
- R Jordan Eberle. His NHLE (82gp, 22-24-46) from the WHL suggests he is the most offensively ready Oilers prospect. Eberle's issues (foot speed, size) will always be issues, but his positives (he's a shooter, plus he has performed well at all levels) mean he is exactly the type of player Edmonton fast-tracks (dating back to Comrie, Hemsky and Gagner). I doubt he's on next season's list.
- C Riley Nash. His NHLE (82gp, 13-26-39) suggests Nash is certainly worth an NHL look-see this fall. If Nash and the organization were getting along it might be possible to suggest a Shawn Horcoff-like developmental line (full college career, turn pro and then spend 20 games in the NHL before making the show) but I don't think he'll be an Oiler prospect a year from now. When Oilers fans fret over the organization not getting the most out of their assets, situations like this one are what they're worrying over. The same strong-willed determination we're seeing with Nash may one day make him a team leader. I don't think it'll be with the Oilers, though.
- C Chris Vande Velde. His NHLE (82gp, 13-21-34) is solid and his positives (faceoffs, he's rugged and has size) are not duplicated on the prospect list. Vande Velde could surprise a lot of people and pass some first rounders in the race to NHL regular status. He has some very good arrows.
- D Theo Peckham. He lost a season due to injury and conditioning problems and should he fail to show up in top condition this fall one imagines the organization will sour on him. However, Peckham (like Vande Velde) has a nice window of opportunity here based on his skills (tough, defense first) and the organization's lack of quality and depth in exactly this spot. We'll get a strong tell about Theo Peckham in the fall; if he shows up in terrific shape and determined (remember Brodziak a few years ago at TC?) the Oilers should have an NHL defenseman for years to come. The job is his to lose.
- L Linus Omark. His NHLE (82gp, 20-15-35) and his age (23) added to his size (he's another minute man) mean two things for him this fall: he needs to come into camp and outplay the other minute men and then he needs to keep doing it every night until he's established at the NHL level. Unlike Robert Nilsson, Omark does not have draft pedigree. Like Nilsson, Omark is facing a long list of similar talents (some of whom have strong ties to the organization and major CYA importance to the scouting staff). Omark is similar to Schremp in that he arrives late to the party with the reputation of being a one dimensional type. I like him as a player, but don't like his chances.
- C Anton Lander. His NHLE (82gp, 9-12-21) isn't overly impressive (there are a half dozen better offensive prospects as close or closer to the show) but this "Doug Jarvis" comparable I keep seeing is a tremendous positive. If Anton Lander can fill a role as a quality 3rd line center and a capable penalty-killer, he'll deserve this ranking and then some. This is a player whose boxcars may not tell the story. Think Mike Peca.
- G Devan Dubnyk. The highest ranking goalie on the list, Dubnyk might be at a crossroads with the organization. He showed well in a late season run with the Oilers (he had a .912SP in his final 10 games with the Oilers). Should he one day establish himself as an NHL #1 goalie, the Oilers will have turned around a long list of failed goalie draft picks post Moog-Fuhr.
- D Alex Plante. His pro debut was the most impressive in the entire system. Plante is a high draft pick but injury set him back and expectations were not high for him entering this fall. Injuries and callups forced Plante up the depth chart and he played well, so well in fact the club rewarded him with a call to the show (4gp, +1) last season. He's in a position now to take advantage of struggles by Peckham or actual NHL defenders and play for prolonged periods in the NHL next season. I bet he's passed Chorney on the depth chart.
- D Jeff Petry. His NHLE (82gp, 4-22-26) makes him (once again) the strongest offensive defenseman in the system and his wider range of skills gives us some hope for a more complete defender than someone like Chorney (Petry is 4 inches and 20 pounds bigger than Chorney). Petry's -10 in 8 AHL games to close the season once again gives us pause in regard to rushing college defensemen to the show.
- L Teemu Hartikainen. His NHLE (82gp, 12-14-26) tells us he projects as more of a role player than Nash or Vande Velde. He is a little sluggish as a skater but has good size and I think enough offense that his bat won't be considered a negative (negative like Colin McDonald, who would have a career waiting if he could score once in awhile). I can't wait for him to get here, because my suspicion is that he's better than the numbers imply. Having said that, the math says we're looking at a 4th liner with nice secondary skills.
- R Ryan Stone. He's on the list because injury made it impossible for him to play 50 NHL games (that's my line in the sand for prospects). Stone's ranking has a lot to do with the lack of similar player-types in the system. If the Oilers had several bigger forwards who could play a physical style and be somewhat responsible then Stone might be farther down the list or not on the list. However, he's a legit prospect based on the Oilers inability to fill the position and is at this time the best NHL ready option on the list.
- D Taylor Chorney. His NHL performance (42gp, 0-3-3 -21) and his AHL totals (32gp, 4-9-13 -20) are a concern to those of us who eat Cheesies by the barrel in our basements; I imagine the Oilers are apoplectic about his math mark. I know he looks like a player (wonderful skater) but there should be real concern about this player as a defenseman. He's not strong enough, he's not going to have a chance to gain the experience needed at this level before getting passed by other defensemen, and he isn't going to have much trade value if he posts another similar season. I think we can agree there's legit concern about this player in the higher reaches of Oiler management.
- G Olivier Roy. An impressive QMJHL season (his .908 SP was 5th among regulars in the Q) added to a solid resume make him the next great hope for an Oiler picked goalie to have an impact in the show. He's done everything right since draft day, including shaking off a slow start to have a strong season.
- D Johan Motin. Motin made his pro debut and performed well. His numbers (he's not an offensive defender) are rock solid in the AHL (55gp, 1-5-6 -5 on a terrible team) and he would rank higher if there was any evidence he played against tough competition in the minors. He may be ranked too low on this list, I'll watch for Jonathan Willis to update the toughness of minutes played in Springfield. That aside, it looks like the organization regards him as a depth player at this time.
- R Toni Rajala. His NHLE (82gp, 11-15-26) is in the "tweener" range and there's a very good chance he'll be much less than we're hoping for based on how good he looked on televison. His season just wasn't that impressive. Maybe he had a tough time adjusting or didn't get the playing time that other prospects received, but the math says he's a long shot.
- L Phil Cornet. His NHLE (82gp, 10-17-27) imply a classic "tweener" and one wonders about his first pro season. His minor league career begins at a time when the Oilers are very interested in building a better AHL club, which may mean a full season at the ECHL level. Not a death sentence for a prospect (Liam Reddox played in the ECHL his first pro season) but probably not what young Cornet is hoping for this fall.
- D Troy Hesketh. He's miles away but did progress as a player in high school and he's going to blue factory Wisconsin after he graduates. When in doubt, bet on the tall trees.
- R Colin McDonald. Good size and strength, he can't hit a lick. This season's NHLE (82gp, 6-5-11) isn't going to get him a job and he's been playing in the AHL for 225 games now.
- D Josef Hrabal. "The Pencil" was a regular in the Czech league this past season and I'm still convinced he's a prospect. The rumors about the Oilers buying him out seem to have been incorrect.
There's the list. It'll change after draft day, the number one slot will no doubt go to Hall/Seguin. I also suspect Riley Nash will be traded. Did I miss anyone?
Why would Riley Nash be traded?
ReplyDeleteObviously many would prefer him in the AHL, but from day one the Oilers knew of his desire to remain at Cornell.
Also, he's progressed every year there.
Maybe with the Nash detractors it's more of a case of wanting him to get to the AHL so we can see if you're any good.
Rick: The Oilers haven't said 10 kind words about Nash in the last 12 months. Prendergast of all people has bordered on negative. My guess is they trade him at the draft.
ReplyDeleteGood on him, but bad to see Peckham is our best D prospect.
ReplyDeleteLT: Whom would we have if we wouldn't have aquired the Plante and Nash picks? (Please let it be a someone I've never heard of)
I doubt Nash gets traded, simply because there's very little room to improve on the return we're already guaranteed.
ReplyDeleteIs any team going to offer us more than 51st overall in 2011? Maybe he's a throw-in to a larger deal, but I can't see someone giving up a late first or an early second rounder for him.
Nash - yet another example of incompetant asset management.
ReplyDeleteIt's got to be said.
I hope they don't trade Riley Nash. I have high hopes that he will someday play on a line with Blair Riley and the Oilers' future 31st overall pick, Riley Sheahan.
ReplyDeleteThat's right: the Riley line.
Nash has the kind of face you love to hate, but then again Oilers I recall used to have quite a few players the fans of opposition teams wanted shot on sight.
ReplyDeleteSucks that they can't keep even prospects happy.
all in all though, i do like the prospects we have piled up in the last few drafts. if Riley Nash or Tony Rajala or whomever never make this team, oh well! guess they all can't make it now can they?
ReplyDeletemore interesting than the tyler/taylor saga this summer, is how the oilers will attempt to solve the total disaster that is their defense corps.
ReplyDeletethis past year, the oilers had Brule take a step forward, drafted MPS, and saw Omark improve along with Eberle. Riley Nash might be something, so the offense situation looks about ask good as we can expect.
but you have to expect that the oilers will have to trade some of these young players and prospects for better defense. or move penner/hemsky for defense.
coz unless there's some solid UFA defensemen out there willing to come to edmonton without an overpay, there's no way out of this mess. Peckham and Chorney just aren't good enough.
Loved reading this - thanks so much for putting it together.
ReplyDeleteQuick question. Couldn't (shouldn't) Dubnyk be a little higher (say above Lander and Omark)? It strikes me that he'll probably be our backup and play a good number of NHL games this coming season, where there's a fair chance that Lander will never see the NHL and Omark might well not stick. Perhaps goalies have to do more to prove themselves in this kind of thing?
I'm not saying he's going to mature into an NHL starter, but it seems he's positioned well to have a good crack at it this season.
Good write up here LT. Agreed with a lot of the things said on your list. The only concern I have is Riley Nash really the 3rd best prospect in the Oilers org right now? I'm not sure if thats a good thing or a bad thing. Right now Riley Nash seems 50/50 that he'll be an NHL player.
ReplyDeleteDo you hate O'Marra that much? What's Hrabal even doing on this list? Or McDonald for that matter, who is 3 years older than O'Marra, and whose stats aren't any better.
ReplyDeleteLT why do you hate Smid and O'Marra so much? They never did anything to you!
ReplyDeleteNice writeup... it's going to get interesting when the Oilers have to start picking which kids they're keeping and which they're dealing for picks/other kids/shiny things.
And methinks Coach won't agree with one of your rankings... :-).
Read this list with greater excitement than I have many in the past, and it should look even better post-draft.
ReplyDeleteI probably would have placed Dubnyk lower, when your best small sample size is .912, there's problems despite the horrible D in front of him. But such is the way with goalie picks.
Vande Velde easily has the most arrows pointing his way of all prospects not named Magnus or Jordan. I also think he will pass some 1st and 2nd rounders. Some serious bad luck would have to happen for him not to have an NHL career. Great deep pick. Finally the Coke machine lottery pays off.
In fact if the Oil keep VV at centre and hang onto Nash, there's a real log jam there between Nash, Lander and him.
Nice to see Plante ahead of Petry; I think he's earned it. Any improvement to his lateral mobility and we have a real tree trunk there... a young Sheldon Souray perhaps.
Striatic is right though. This team and this depth chart is missing some actual NHL defensemen.
Thanks for the great read.
PDO, I don't know how Hartikainen could be ranked any higher than maybe one spot. And he's ahead of Chorney and Stone. I would probably have him down a couple notches (but not much).
ReplyDeleteMcDonald's a UFA July 1, right? Do we have any indication that the Oilers will re-sign him? At this point, it's sort of hard to see why they would, though maybe Oklahoma will sign him to an AHL deal.
ReplyDeletePeter: O'Marra had a better season in 09-10. I think the organization still might see him as a 3C option in the AHL, so there might be another contract.
ReplyDeleteBut he's an rfa coming off his entry level deal and the Oilers have a ton of them. I'd say it is 50/50 they sign him, just like McDonald. I chose McDonald because he's been a better AHL player.
Good thing we traded Ryan Smyth for O'Marra.
ReplyDeleteNobody could have predicted that was a trainwreck of a deal.
No sir.
LT: Contrary to a movement around the fan base, i like Riley Nash, and think he could be a good N 2-3 C when he finished NCAA.
ReplyDeleteHe's progressed every year, and seems like he has a head on his shoulders.
Do you think the attitude that the team used on Nash describes a bit of the problem? They seem to be oblivious to everything and thinking theyr way is the best way, while it was clearly not (AHL being suckass).
Oh and if we trade him, the return will probably suck, that's the kind of retarded trades that you can't win.
See the Islanders who just turned a 3rd pick (Jiry Niemi) into a 5th.
Good thing we traded Ryan Smyth for O'Marra.
ReplyDeleteWell, technically, it was a few weeks of Ryan Smyth for Robert Nilsson, Ryan O'Marra and the Islanders' first round pick in the 2007 entry draft
I think that a first round draft pick for a rental is a pretty good deal. You can argue all you want that the Oilers should have signed him, but that was a decent trade.
Bookie:
ReplyDeleteProblem being, it was a known crappy draft... and the results of the draft speak for itself. 1st's that year were thrown around for nothing... and then adding Nilsson and O'Marra just screamed the Oilers going after guys they liked rather than guys that were good (Okposo).
What do you think of Kyle Bigos, LT?
ReplyDeleteQCoilers: I think Bigos is an interesting prospect but it isn't clear that he'll be a pro player. He could be something, he could be Kenny Smith. We'll have to wait and see, but I don't see a reason to rank him at this point.
ReplyDeleteFPB: I think the Oilers have soured on the NCAA. Nash is probably the last of the college drafts for awhile, or at least until they replace have some success with USHL, BCJHL, AJHL or NCAA draft picks again.
ReplyDeleteIsn't Stone a UFA in a month? Should hw be considered among the players the Oilers have rights to?
ReplyDeleteIf my memory is correct wasn't Lander named Captain of his SEL team at age 18?
If so, that's a remarkable achievement and shows traits in short supply on the current roster. (Short supply, not entirely void)
He has the potential to be of those guys fans of other teams lament that their team passed on.
Woodguy: Both Stone and McDonald will be UFA in a month.
ReplyDeleteEvery time I look at the first two names on that list and then think Hall or Seguin's getting added to the mix in 30 days, my thoughts always come back to the same place.
ReplyDeleteGet ready for a serious douse of rookies, Oiler fans. There's a good chance all of MPS, Eberle and Hall/Seguin are in the opening night lineup. And if they earn those spots at camp, it's not a completely awful thing (it will be cap-hell come summer 2013, however).
H:
ReplyDeleteIf all 3 pan out... yeah, it definitely could be.
That said, all the Oilers have committed as of Summer 13 would be:
Horcoff, 5.5 (2 years, 4.0 and 3.0 real money left), Gilbert, 4.0 (1 year, 3.0 real money left)..
... and that's it.
Hell, we'll finally have Bulin's contract done...
LT,
ReplyDeleteI'd tend to disagree with you about Kyle Bigos. There are already some positive arrows. Yes, he looked like a lost child out there at times this season. On the other hand there were times he cleaned up in his own end and threw out the trash.
First arrow - he finished +3 on a team that was -20 without being noticeably sheltered.
Second arrow - you don't often see a 6'5", 230 lb defencemen lead the breakout, at least not one who likes to smash people. Bigos lives to move the puck, smooth headman, lug it out, bash it up the boards, he likes the puck on his stick. Every once and a while he takes it and goes like Gilbert when he played in college.
Third arrow - He led his team in penalty minutes, though led is the wrong word, he nearly lapped the field. Most of those were minor penalties and a lot of them were for showing a degree of aggression not deemed seemly in US College hockey. He gives every appearance of maybe having a screw loose on the ice.
Fourth arrow - he loves to shoot the puck, a lot. There is a very good chance he has a hundred shots and a hundred minutes in penalties next season (36 games). He had 64 shots and 94 penalty minutes this year with the coach riding him about discipline.
Fifth arrow - he can seriously fire the puck. Sheldon Souray/Al Iafrate fire the puck. Can't hit the ocean from the pier but neither could Shelly and Al at that age.
Sixth arrow - the one I like the best - his coach called him out in the press and Bigos didn't sulk, sucked it up and got better. There is more than a little bit of Matt Greene in the kid as well, funny, popular, media friendly.
I'd agree that he'd get slaughtered in the AHL right now and thus is a long way from the bigs. However, he has a great atittude and plays the game with an enthusiasm that is almost embarassing. I'm thinking like Chris VandeVelde before him that by year four of his NCAA career we'll be talking about him passing guys drafted much higher.
MPS, Eberle, Hall/Seguin along with Gagner is the core of the franchise. I'm hoping the Oilers get good mileage out of Whitney and Gilbert over the next few seasons, those 6 along with Horcoff will be the players that the Oilers will be spending money on. I don't think the cap will be hurting too badly at that point.
ReplyDeleteH-bomb:
ReplyDeleteI was going to make the same post PDO did. There are not cap problems whatsoever in 3 years, as it currently sits.
Only two guys under contract at that point, one of whom will appears likely be a good deal at that point (Gilbert), the other we'll wait and see but if Horcoff is a 50 point player in 3 years, I don't think the Oilers have trouble moving him if they so desire.
The combined cap hits of the three will be ~6.75 mil. If the three command 6 mil each, per season (like the Toews/Kane/Keith threesome) in 3 years after their ELC's, that's a great "problem" to have.
linnaeus: You make some strong arguments. I can't really get a feel for that Merrimack team. They're an older club (NCAA-wise) with Bigos at 20 one of the younger players. And yet they're not terribly good as a team (-20 overall).
ReplyDeleteI guess I'd like to see some more.
5, maybe 6, actual NHL players in the pipeline IF they all pan out.
ReplyDeleteIt's quite sad, actually.
Blogger PDO said...
ReplyDeleteBookie:
Problem being, it was a known crappy draft... and the results of the draft speak for itself. 1st's that year were thrown around for nothing... and then adding Nilsson and O'Marra just screamed the Oilers going after guys they liked rather than guys that were good (Okposo).
Okposo was taken with the 7th overall pick a year before (2006)
here is a complete list of guys who have were drafted after Plante + Nash and went on to have even a little bit of success in the nhl.
Perron, Galiardi, and Simmons.
It's quite sad, actually.
ReplyDeleteThanks for infringing the copyright, bro.
Anon:
ReplyDeleteI know Okposo was drafted that early, but the Oilers should have been getting nothing less than a blue chip prospect back... instead they did their usual and traded a facecard for a bunch of 6's and 7's hoping one of them would turn itself into an Ace.
A facecard only a mother could love ...
ReplyDeleteGreat read as always LT.
ReplyDeleteWith regard to Peckham, was the issue of his waiver eligibility ever clarified?
It was adressed in a thread on this site a few weeks back, but I don't believe a consensus was reached. From what I can tell, due to his birthdate and # of seasons playing pro, Peckham will need to clear waivers if assigned to OKC this fall.
Anyone think otherwise?
With regards to Johan Motin. I have your answer for you.
ReplyDeleteSometimes I have a mind like a trap, for where and when I heard things. I heard Daum on Oilers Lunch, talking about Motin, my memory said it January 11th.
Just went back and listened to archive on the 1260 site. It was was the 11th. Start listening in hour two, around the 15 minute mark.
Daum said he started out giving Plante and Motin soft minutes. Plante moved up from there. Despite them having major call ups and injuries at the time of the interview, on the D corps. Rob Daum said he is still feeding Motin the softest / easiest (believe he used both terms) minutes he can.
Stauffer even mentions you LT, shortly afterward.
How far off this list is Kyle Bigos? Interested to see how he makes out with his strange career path. Drafted from BCHL and now playing in college.
ReplyDeleteJust wondering, what happened the last time a team was stupid enough to trade down from number 1 to number 2?
ReplyDeletehunter: Probably the Rick Nash draft.
ReplyDeletespeeds & PDO: You've both made me feel better about the situation. Heck, if the Oilers can move Souray, all of Moreau/Nilsson/O'Sullivan are off the books next summer anyways, so the cap issues won't nearly be as bad. I'd still try to get rid of Khabibulin if I was in charge, but beyond the hypothetical idea of a Khabby-for-Huet swap with the Hawks, I can't see it happening.
ReplyDeleteAs for trading "down" from #1 overall being stupid - if the Oilers only see a marginal difference between Seguin and Hall, and Boston offers something that makes up for that difference and then some for the Oilers to "lay off" Taylor and take Tyler instead, how is making that trade stupid in any sense?
In other words, what's better going forward: Taylor Hall or Tyler Seguin PLUS one of Blake Wheeler, the Bruins other 1st rounder this year or (the dream scenario) Toronto's 2011 first rounder?
I have yet to see any expert declare that there's a clear-cut leader in this race. If it is true that Boston's absolute preference is Hall (given their situation at centre right now with Savard/Bergeron/Krejci, this seems like a logical conclusion) it would not be "stupid" for the Oilers to try and extract something from the Bruins in order to let them have the opportunity to draft their player of choice - it would be rather shrewd asset management.
On the other hand, however...if the Oilers simply walk to the podium and pick Seguin without having gotten anything out of the Bruins, I think we'd all have the right to be rather unimpressed - not by the player selected, but by the failure to make their position of strength count for something.
If the Oilers feel Hall is their guy and they pick him, fine, I'm OK with that. But if they decide Seguin's the way to go, I'd hope they leverage their position of strength and effectively "blackmail" the Bruins out of something worthwhile. Cutthroat? Yes, but isn't any good GM able to be such once in awhile?
Hunter: It was the Rick Nash draft and Florida got Nathan Horton, Steven Weiss instead of Rick Nash (may have been something else as well). They traded down from 1 to 3 though iirc.
ReplyDeleteGreat list LT. I like the progress that Petry made last season - and overall, I like the defensive depth that we have. While there are none who are elite, it's a deep group of 3-7 guys (Petry, Motin, Plante).
While concerned with the results of Petry's cup of coffee in Springfield, I don't think they'll make the same mistake they did w/Chorney - who the pressure is going to be on to turn it around this season. Hope he gets a full season in the AHL to learn to master skills that he simply has not been able to do playing over his head.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletePDO, I get what you're saying, but no way were the Oilers going to get a bluechip prospect for a rental of Ryan Smyth.
ReplyDeleteNilsson, O'Marra, and 15th overall (Plante) was a good return for 20 games of Smyth.
At best they could have tried trading Smyth straight up for Okposo but it's hard to believe any GM not named Milbury wouldn't have balked at that. Put another way, would the Oilers ever consider trading Eberle for 20 games of Ryan Smyth?
That was a good trade (not that I agree with trading Smyth) and a good return; you couldn't have expected much more.
I think there's so much white noise from the "All the Young Dudes" brigade (named after hunter, Mott's lead singer was Ian Hunter) that we're spending too much time on this issue.
ReplyDeleteSeguin and Hall look dead even (Desjardins NHLE is very close) and I give the edge to Hall for a few reasons (he just seems to want it a tremendous amount, and that's impressive for those of us who saw Jason Bonsignore's desire) which we've all gone over.
We don't really know a thing about Edmonton's thought process. We know the MBS has a nice track record so far (he did in fact take MPS when the kid fell to them and Guy has told us they were looking closely at that kid defenseman who scored the winning goal at WJ's) and that the organization is doing their due diligence.
If they decade Seguin is the man and take him #1 then (as HBomb suggests) we can be less than impressed. A quick look at the Bruins depth chart gives away their preference for Hall.
So if it is Seguin then the Oilers should wait for Chirelli's call and then ask for a first round pick to be added to #2.
I think Hall's the right player. But I see a lot of internet statements saying "the Oilers are such fuckups they're going to take Seguin" and honestly that seemed enormously unfair to me.
This isn't a black and white decision, and framing it as such implies we know things that we do not know.
We don't know if one of them is a straight arrow and a leader and another is a major screwup. The Oilers will know things about these two kids that could sway their decision mightily.
We need to remember that.
There's the list. It'll change after draft day, the number one slot will no doubt go to Hall/Seguin.
ReplyDeleteI'm not so sure that Party-on-Svensson agrees with you.
Both Hall and Seguin look to be very good, but MPS just lead the Bronze Medal Winning Sweden Men's National Team in scoring at the World Championships at age 19.
That is remarkable.
He may be the best of the bunch, its starting to look like a nice bunch too.
Off topic a bit here but.....
ReplyDeleteLet's say Edmonton just agrees to keep the first pick (optics of picking first) and agrees to take Seguin (and leave Hall to Boston even though they may really want Hall slightly more). They would get for compensation another pick somewhere in draft this year or next from Boston.
How does a team do this on paper and still not offend Seguin at the same time? There has to be official paperwork indicating Edmonton has obtained a pick from Boston.
IE...does Bettman get up and say "we have a trade....to Edmonton, Boston's first round pick from Toronto in 2011 for not taking Hall this year" seems silly to me but curious how this would work.
Jake: What they would probably do is draft Seguin, leaving Hall to Boston. At some later point the trade information would be released, perhaps later in the first round.
ReplyDeleteJake70: You'd probably see some sort of a curious "dummy trade", where the Oilers get Blake Wheeler for Jeff Paukovich or something like that.
ReplyDeleteOnce upon a time, you could do a deal for "future considerations", but I think that's not allowed under the current CBA.
I think Hall's the right player. But I see a lot of internet statements saying "the Oilers are such fuckups they're going to take Seguin" and honestly that seemed enormously unfair to me.
Lowetide: that's it in a nutshell. Everyone has their opinions, but anyone who is trumpeting one over the other as "clearly the better choice" and making statements about it being a "fuckup" if MBS and company go the other way from their opinion....well, frankly, those people should remove their heads from their own asses, to put it as bluntly as possible. There is nothing clear about this decision whatsoever, even when one takes Hall's exceptional Memorial Cup performance into consideration.
Lord knows the Oiler brass want to get this choice, so you can bet the farm they'll be doing their homework right up until June 25th. In Stu we trust, right?
IE...does Bettman get up and say "we have a trade....to Edmonton, Boston's first round pick from Toronto in 2011 for not taking Hall this year" seems silly to me but curious how this would work.
ReplyDeleteIt would be announced as "future considerations", I think. As for offending Seguin, all it would do is tell him that Boston preferred Hall; I don't see how that affects his relationship with Edmonton.
5, maybe 6, actual NHL players in the pipeline IF they all pan out.
ReplyDeleteIt's quite sad, actually.
Almost as sad as a retiree with multiple internet aliases.
Somewhere (out of Boston I believe) I read that the Oilers had interest on Sobotka and he would be the price or part of it for a swap of picks.
ReplyDeleteVladimir Sobotka? His stats don't seem too impressive (164 games, 22 points), and he's another 5'11" 183lb guy. From some blogs on the infonets he apparently plays a fearless abrasive style, but he looks like a 4th maybe 3rd line plugger.
ReplyDeleteI'd much rather a second 1st round pick. Color me unimpressed, but hey, I felt the same way about Glencross initially.
LittleFury, you're in rare form today.
I'd much rather a second 1st round pick. Color me unimpressed, but hey, I felt the same way about Glencross initially.
ReplyDeleteWell, the reality is that Boston may see #1 and #2 as pretty close to even, so they may not be willing to give up much at all.
Am I the only one not sold on Vande Velde?
ReplyDeleteI know he's got decent size, but I'm not sure if his offensive output suggests much. Sure he lead his team as a senior, but that is sort of what you expect from them.
From what I've read he has a decent 2 way game but doesn't produce much without the PP and top linemates.
Dawgbone, no one expects VV to be a big scorer. What's expected is a solid 3rd line pivot, with size and grit, who can win faceoffs and knows how to take care of his own end. This is something the Oilers have clearly lacked and it makes him unique among the current AHL crop right now, which is why LT and many others believe he'll pass a lot of other prospects on the way to NHL player status.
ReplyDeleteSo if it is Seguin then the Oilers should wait for Chirelli's call and then ask for a first round pick to be added to #2.
ReplyDeleteHere's a good article with quotes from Chirelli saying that he will indeed make that call:
http://news.bostonherald.com/sports/hockey/bruins/view.bg?&articleid=1257650&format=&page=1&listingType=bru#articleFull
Lowetide:
ReplyDeleteI'm planning to retire from this spurious debate, but before i stop as you know Hall really looks to be a very very special player.
Given the fact the Oilers are an absolute piece of shite org for so long few of us even remember otherwise, plus memories of the Kelly over Doan draft, why should any fan so much as bother to remain rational?
I know my position re Hall looks extreme, but what about the Seguin fans? They're reminding me of the Burke apologists over in Leafland these days, swallowing the doublethink that states Kessel MUST be better than either Hall/Seguin, since he's played in the NHL and the others haven't? Isn't this even more extreme?
Here's a nice doomsday scenario: Oilers work something out to let the Bruins draft Hall, who goes on to win the Calder trophy. Meanwhile Seguin breaks his leg playing in the OHL. Bye bye the future. Hello another decade of spin and smoke.
On the other hand Hall could get hit by a Mack truck crossing 118th ave, and like the rags and Cherepanov, no one will say a word. And for this reason alone the management is nuts to consider anyone but Taylor Hall.
the best thing the Oilers can do is tell Chia that they are drafting hall. it is obvious that Chia would prefer hall.
ReplyDeleteAfter that, it is completely up to Chia what he thinks the difference ius worth.
He may decide that it is only worth a 5th round pick to get hall over Seguin. He may decide it is worth a 1st round pick.
Tambo does not have the ability to influence the relative value. Chia's eyes and his org will do that. He will make an offer based on his valuation.
dawgbone said...
ReplyDeleteAm I the only one not sold on Vande Velde?
I know he's got decent size, but I'm not sure if his offensive output suggests much. Sure he lead his team as a senior, but that is sort of what you expect from them.
From what I've read he has a decent 2 way game but doesn't produce much without the PP and top linemates.
Well I am not sure about not sold. But I watched him play a lot in college. I have serious doubts his offense is going to translate to the NHL, in any meaningful way.
A lot are saying he could be a good 3rd line guy. Who can brings some decent offense, good defensively and be a good PKer.
My expectations are a little lower. I think he tops out as something closer to Blair Betts. I see his roof as a 4th line guy, who brings some grit / energy and will be a good PK option.
All of this of course after he puts in a couple season in the AHL. With some doubt that he graduates from that level.
Lowetide said...
ReplyDeletelinnaeus: You make some strong arguments. I can't really get a feel for that Merrimack team. They're an older club (NCAA-wise) with Bigos at 20 one of the younger players. And yet they're not terribly good as a team (-20 overall).
I guess I'd like to see some more.
My nephew is playing on that team next season so I'm hoping to get some inside dope on Bigos and maybe see a game or two.
In other news Mike Brodeur of Water Valley, AB re-signed with Ottawa on a 2 way deal this week.
That was a guy that could have helped out OK City and provided NHL level depth goaltending... Y'know, on the extremely remote chance that Khabibulin might get hurt this season.
On Hall/Seguin, sure sounds like Boston is willing to make some kind of deal.
ReplyDeleteOn Hall/Seguin, sure sounds like Boston is willing to make some kind of deal.
ReplyDeleteAfter you read the article be sure to read the comments from the Boston fans, its like our debate, but reversed. Many fans are saying that Seguin is better and that their idiot GM is going to screw this up and give away something to move up a position to select the wrong guy. Pretty funny. Of course there are other opinions as well, but in general they have the same random ranting style as we do.
I know my position re Hall looks extreme, but what about the Seguin fans? They're reminding me of the Burke apologists over in Leafland these days, swallowing the doublethink that states Kessel MUST be better than either Hall/Seguin, since he's played in the NHL and the others haven't? Isn't this even more extreme
ReplyDeleteI know I am going to kick myself for asking this, but, huh? I don't understand the point you're making (are you saying that Seguin apologists are calling him more NHL ready than Hall? or what specifically are you pointing out?)
I will fully admit that I am in the Seguin camp, but I do not feel he is the 'man' to the exclusion of having Hall's name called. But there better be someone else from the Bruin's org coming back if it is Seguin.
Linnaeus, excellent post on Bigos. I hope your nephew has a great experience at Merrimack next year.
Corsi - if there are 5-6 actual nhl'rs in the Oilers farm system, considering the nonsense that has occurred in development, then I rejoice because the future looks bright.
Sorry for so many comments, I am catching up after being away with the wife.
but in general they have the same random ranting style as we do.
ReplyDeleteIt's good to know we are not alone.
The writer of that article suggests that Tim Thomas plus the second overall might get the Bruins the first overall, which makes me seriously question the credibility of anything he says.
ReplyDeleteI am a big supporter of Chris VandeVelde who I have watched play for four years now. I guess he could find hands at this late date but I don't expect it and it has nothing to do with him having an NHL career. He is good defensively, a strong skater, and a solid hitter who picks his spots wisely. He is good to outstanding in the faceoff circle, bright, coachable, and a driven team leader. He is a rock solid ten+ year third or fourth line center who takes key draws and is a solid penalty killer.
ReplyDeleteHe isn't spending two years in the AHL unless Lander passes him on the depth chart. He takes faceoffs with NHL level skills. He already has mastered defensive positioning for a center. He is large, can skate, and has an edge. In other words he is something we don't have on our current roster.
He also has an upside that is easy to miss because he has hands of stone. Scouts keep saying about him that he backs the defense off. The question is why wouldn't good defenders close the gap? Yes he has NHL+ speed but so do lots of college players and the d don't back up on them. It is because he has an NHL class one step leg block and if he gets position he is going to the net, can't score when he gets there but can cause havoc. Exploitive team mates could take advantage of the open ice and the juicy rebounds he creates and generate goals.
I see CVV as a classic example of the value of intangibles, he is worth having around for who he is, and has the upside of being a much larger Todd Marchant. That said my excitement is based on the fact that we need a Blair Betts on this team desperately if we are ever going to contend. So saying he is another Blair Betts is saying he'll pass higher picks and have an NHL career.
The writer of that article suggests that Tim Thomas plus the second overall might get the Bruins the first overall, which makes me seriously question the credibility of anything he says.
ReplyDeleteThen we'd have one aging overpriced goalie nicknamed the Tank and another in the tank.
If the Bruins are willing to give up any kind of 1st rounder to get Hall instead of Seguin, the Oil should probably take that as a sign that Hall is much, much better.
ReplyDeleteThere's no chance they'd do that just out of positional concerns rather than just see if Seguin can play the wing.
If they're so close as most people here seem to believe, we shouldn't expect squat in a deal with the Bs.
Another reason to like Bigos is because of his namesake:
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigos
Mmmhmmm, savoury beef and cabbage stew. Would love if his nickname became Beef'n'Cabbage.
Hunter, your arguments draw ire because you've freely admitted that they are grounded on nothing more than your gut feeling. In itself that's fine, but the vitriol and vehemence with which you express your opinion is what is off-putting vis a vis Hall or Seguin.
Also by your logic, a worse case scenario could easily be the Oilers pick Hall, he gets his head turned into mush his first season in the NHL by a flying Downie head check or a Cooke check from behind special, and has his career ended. Everyone extols how they saw this coming from his propensity to get blown up in Junior. The Bruins meanwhile draft their 'consolation' prize in Seguin, who goes on to quietly have a career comparable to Sakic, posting 40+ goals and 80-100 points a season for 20 odd years or so.
Hyperbole is fun isn't it?
If the Bruins are willing to give up any kind of 1st rounder to get Hall instead of Seguin, the Oil should probably take that as a sign that Hall is much, much better.
ReplyDeleteThere's no chance they'd do that just out of positional concerns rather than just see if Seguin can play the wing.
Explain again why the Oilers should be outsourcing their scouting to the Bruins?
Or, put another way, should the Oilers have taken the fact that Buffalo was willing to part with Jan Hejda for a 7th rounder as a sign that Hejda was shit? Or the fact that the Flames were prepared to part with actual value for Steve Staios as a sign that Staios is worth every penny of his contract? You see where I'm going with this.
Exactly what Steve said. Oilers' scouts are paid to scout. Who cares if the Bruins want Hall? That just means that they like Hall better, which is fine.
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes to draft day every team has a list and these lists don't match. Its up to the scouts to give the org. the info and their opinions.
I think both kids are fine and will be very good NHL players. To paraphrase LT, those who deride one or the other for the simple reason that they think that one guy is better should give their head a shake.
Its a close call according to everyone concerned. The idea that one or the other is a lock to be a superstar in the NHL while the other is going to be a Bust is a whole lot of bs really.
Who is going to be the better pro in the long run? Who will help the club win the Cup?
Those are the questions.
I'd feel better about outsourcing our scouting to the Bruins than to NHL Central Scouting's rankings.
ReplyDeleteWho are they again exactly?
The Buffalo and Calgary examples are pretty minor deals, whereas giving up a 1st rounder to move up one spot in the draft would be an enormous one.
If any NHL org other than maybe the Leafs was willing to sign off on that deal, it would behoove the Oil to step back and re-evaluate things.
What's expected is a solid 3rd line pivot, with size and grit, who can win faceoffs and knows how to take care of his own end.
ReplyDeleteThat's ultimately the issue though, I don't think he has the offense to play that role (and yes there is some offense required to do it).
I think he'll top out more as a 4th liner. I mean he has a good a shot as anyone in the top 20 (outside of the main guys) to be an NHLer, but his high end doesn't seem all that high to me.
What's expected is a solid 3rd line pivot, with size and grit, who can win faceoffs and knows how to take care of his own end.
ReplyDeleteThat's ultimately the issue though, I don't think he has the offense to play that role (and yes there is some offense required to do it).
The NHLE of 13-21-34 suggests that he may already have the offense to play a third line role. I know that I don't expect much more out of a third liner than 30-40 points a year (20 goals is great for a depth guy). Correct me if I'm wrong.
Dawgbone, I think you're confusing what a solid 3rd line checking pivot is. The typical checking centre isn't a Jordan Staal or Chris Versteeg, who only exist as such because their teams have ridiculous depth at at certain positions.
ReplyDeleteTwo of the consensus checking centres in the league are currently Sami Pahlsson (16 points) and John Madden (23 points) this season. I'll even toss in Todd Marchant (22 points).
I don't see offense as being a huge factor for the role he's projected in. I'm fairly sure if he makes it to the show he can post 15 points or more, and I'd be happy with 20 if he brings all his other skills with him to the NHL. Line mates of course matter as well.
I'd feel better about outsourcing our scouting to the Bruins than to NHL Central Scouting's rankings.
ReplyDeleteBut nobody's talking about outsourcing the scouting to Central Scouting; I haven't heard a single person say "We should definitely draft Seguin because he was the player highest-ranked by Central Scouting." We're saying that the Oilers' scouting should decide, and that, on the face of things, both Hall and Seguin are entirely defensible choices.
I have no idea which of Hall or Seguin would be the better pick. But with every post from a Hall proponent, I find myself more and more in sympathy with the Seguin side, since at least they don't pretend the choice is clear-cut (neither do all of the Hall backers, of course, but the most vocal ones sure do).
"Who is going to be the better pro in the long run? Who will help the club win the Cup? Those are the questions."
ReplyDeleteSo easy to answer those questions.
I've got some better ones:
Who's going to galvanise the fanbase who pay everyone's wages?
Who's more likely to step right in and make an impact on the worst team in the NHL?
Of course the Oilers i know since the Messier trade would prefer to trade Hall for multiple lower picks, to make it look like we're all about to become inundated with star players...never actually happens but that's how they thought when they drafted Plante/Nash/Pouliot/Jacques etc.
Who is going to transform downtown?
ReplyDelete@hunt
ReplyDeletethe oilers traded up to draft nash.
@commonfan
if you hire and pay your scouting staff doesn't it behoove you to trust them? if not, then you should replace them with people you do.
I think it is much more likely the B's offer up a 2nd Rounder to move up. If Tambo is able to acquire a 2nd + Hamill or Colborne then I would really consider it.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete"Who is going to transform downtown?"
ReplyDeleteSeriously, if Katz and his cronies are serious about building a new arena, the last thing they need to be doing is showing off their ignorance/arrogance when selecting players to play for the team. From what I see the locals in the chuck aren't exactly bending over for that giant clam shell being pitched to them either.
This isn't 1985 with a prime Slats making trades that invariably help the team. This is 2010, with a 20 year long cup drought, a team that's not been pre-eminently respectable since the Messier trade, and with all the rest of the malarkey associated with them one would think the last thing they want to do here is thumb their noses at the people who buy tickets.
Sure i take the hysterical stance, but on the other hand why can't I? This is a rotten to the core franchise, on ice at any rate. Taking the radical stance makes sense.
I do, however, believe that the Oil may try Hall at centre, thus making the Winger vs Centre debate moot. We've seen the team force the fans to endure Cogliano at Centre even though it is apparent to everyone that he belonged on the wing.
ReplyDeleteIs it me, or is Hunter about 72% more crazy than normal this week?
ReplyDeleteAre you ok Hunter? Maybe you need a day off or something?
linnaeus said...
ReplyDeleteI see CVV as a classic example of the value of intangibles, he is worth having around for who he is, and has the upside of being a much larger Todd Marchant. That said my excitement is based on the fact that we need a Blair Betts on this team desperately if we are ever going to contend. So saying he is another Blair Betts is saying he'll pass higher picks and have an NHL career.
At the end of the day, I do not think we disagree that much. I meant that the way you took it. Saying he is a more fleet of foot Betts, is a compliment. I like Betts and would love to have him on my team.
Nothing wrong with a solid 4th liner, that can PK, add leadership and win big face offs. Not to mention create energy and bang bodies. I just think CVV's upside might be a little lower, than some others do. Especially in regards to his offense translating to the NHL. I could see him being a 15-20 point sort of guy.
@ book;ie:
ReplyDeleteIt's okay, I'm scheduled for two and a half weeks in Ireland starting next week. Just don't want to be forgotten during my dubiously deserved holiday.
my dubiously deserved holiday
ReplyDeleteAccording to that IIHF wonk none of us deserve holidays (not being single mothers who work in a mine 14 hours a day to support 5 children), but I still hope you enjoy yourself when you go.
I wish I could operate at 72% crazy.
Bar Qu said...
ReplyDeleteThe NHLE of 13-21-34 suggests that he may already have the offense to play a third line role. I know that I don't expect much more out of a third liner than 30-40 points a year (20 goals is great for a depth guy). Correct me if I'm wrong.
Well it is not like the NHLE is fail proof. I mean what was Slava Trukhno's NHLE again? I do not remember the number. But it would not surprise me if he struggled to match that NHL equivalent with his AHL numbers. Never mind the bigs (3 seasons of pro later).
diehard are we quibbling over the value of NHLE's on this blog? Really?
ReplyDeleteYeah, CVV could be a bust, but my point was more that he was on track to be at least a quality 4th liner if not a 3rd liner based on the numbers he has demonstrated - because I think 30-40 points is what you want from a guy in that role (on top of FO ability).
Good post as always, LT. I was actually interested in Riley Nash as to what was happening there. I had last heard that he was pretty much guaranteed to be going back for his final College year, but I wasn't sure if he had smoothed things over with the Oilers or not. I remember hearing an interview with someone from the Oilers... I think Lowe.. not to long ago in which he said something along the lines of "Riley Nash hasn't given us any indication that he'll be leaving College early", but there was no mention as to whether it was bad blood or what.
ReplyDeleteAnyways, I hope the Oilers can get something for him if he has no interest in playing here after his final year at Cornell.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, if Katz and his cronies are serious about building a new arena, the last thing they need to be doing is showing off their ignorance/arrogance when selecting players to play for the team.
ReplyDeleteThe only person showing ignorance and arrogance are the people who say that one player is a slam dunk.
People who have reams of information that we don't have, and have met with the boys on multiple times say its very, very close.
To say otherwise and spew venom at the other side is ignorant and arrogant.
"Draft Hall because the fan base says so"
Would you govern by opinion polls too?
I think strength of conviction is way tougher and smarter than the "easy way" and going with popular opinion.
Rexall is full and will continue to be so. Its the only game in town.
Been saying the same thing as Striatic for a while now, myself... this team's biggest worry hasn't been offensive players. It's our defensive players. The Oil have never seemed to be able to get it right. For a while they have a bunch of big guys that can't move the puck for shit out of their own zone. Now they have mostly offensive puck movers who can't move a body from the front of the net. They need a balance.
ReplyDeleteIf I'm Tambellini, I press hard to move some assets for a pick in the 3-10 range and grab either Gormley or Gudbranson. Failing that, get another GM drunk (say St. Louis' GM) and try and swindle a young up and coming blueline stalwart away. Someone who can play in their own zone first and foremost.
Yeah, CVV could be a bust, but my point was more that he was on track to be at least a quality 4th liner if not a 3rd liner based on the numbers he has demonstrated - because I think 30-40 points is what you want from a guy in that role (on top of FO ability).
ReplyDeleteI guess we disagree on the offensive side of things then.
I am thinking more along the line of offensive output from guys like Betts, Scott Nichol, Pahlsson, Moen type guys. You know in the 12-20 point range.
It seems like you might be feeling he is possibly more in the Malhotra, Moore, Madden type. That are checkers, PK and post up 30-40 point seasons. I certainly hope you are right and I am wrong about that though.
Just my feeling or projection after watching CVV play a bunch the last few seasons.
Hall and Seguin are close - but you still let Stu take the guy he thinks is the best player. If BOS wants the guy we have ranked #2 and is willing to pay something to guarantee getting him - then of course you squeeze as much as possible out of them. But we should take the guy we have ranked #1 - period - you almost never get the opportunity to do that.
ReplyDeleteMaybe others are reading different things, but I've come across multiple articles from different sources saying Hall is the clear-cut #1, a ton of things saying it's really really close, and nothing arguing why Seguin should definitely be taken #1.
ReplyDeleteThe only thing I've seen that has Seguin clearly ranked higher is the NHL Central Scouting rankings (referenced in this space by many posters), which were put together by scouts who I assume only work there because they aren't good enough to be employed by NHL teams.
Again, others might be reading different things. If there are convincing things out there describing why Seguin is the clear #1 choice, I'd be interested in reading them.
If there are convincing things out there describing why Seguin is the clear #1 choice, I'd be interested in reading them.
ReplyDeleteI don't get what's so hard about this: Seguin isn't the clear #1 choice. As far as I can see, nobody here is saying that he is. What we are saying is that it's close enough that you don't pillory the Magnificent Bastard for either choice, because either is perfectly defensible.
You seem to be suggesting that the truth must be the average of everybody's argument: that because Hall's supporters are more prone to discount Seguin than are Seguin's to discount Hall, Hall must be the superior prospect. This is a variant of the argument to moderation fallacy. What I put to you is that the people arguing that Hall is the clear #1 (whose existence I concede) are, on the basis of the available evidence, wrong, and those people arguing that there is no clear #1 are, on the basis of the available evidence, right.
I think it comes down to this for a lot of fans: MBS doesn't have to pick my guy but he better be right.
ReplyDeleteWhich is not a rational statement.
Commonfan: I'd like to know how much games of them live you saw.
ReplyDelete(Yes there's a difference between TV and live)
I am liking Jonathan Willis post on Oilers Nation about a trade with Boston:
ReplyDeleteOilers take Seguin #1
Boston Takes Hall #2
Oilers Trade Patrick O’Sullivan and Nikolai Khabibulin to Boston for Blake Wheeler ad Tim Thomas.
Oilers get a big, promising forward for a smaller one that has clearly not worked out in Edmonton, and a better goalie with a slightly higher cap hit for the next 3 years but far more likely to be a reliable starter.
Oilers get the center they need and fill a couple other needs. Boston gets the winger they need, shed a bit of salary.
That's something that would be pretty hard not to consider, especially if the Oilers are leaning towards Seguin anyways
VoxwaH: That's a trade i like, and far more reasonable than anything else i've heard
ReplyDelete(LIke asking for another possible lottery pick just for going down 1 spot on a guy you might just not pick anyway)
Oilers take Seguin #1
ReplyDeleteBoston Takes Hall #2
Oilers Trade Patrick O’Sullivan and Nikolai Khabibulin to Boston for Blake Wheeler ad Tim Thomas.
I would do it if Stu thinks Seguin is BPA - I would not do it if Stu thinks Hall is BPA. You take BPA - and if you can do that plus get something else - that's gravy.
commonfan13...
ReplyDeleteCan we agree that no stance should be based on what you assume to be true?
hunter1909...
I'm beginning to think the best case for taking Seguin is your extreme rhetoric pro-Hall. If an insane man would take Hall, I'm thinking the other guy is probably the better bet. And we accuse the braintrust of liking shiny things... you're like the Magpie King.
Thank you Steve, WG, AO and the rest for trying to keep this discussion semi-rational.
Bar Qu, that's my nephew that's going -- thanks for the good wishes, I'm sure he will. Took him an extra year to get his grades up to snuff, but it's probably a good thing that he's headin' off yonder with an extra year's "maturity". ;o)
Spoiler: I tought athletes were exempted from the grade standards.
ReplyDeleteAO:
ReplyDeleteIt got to depend on return though. If both EDM and BOS think Hall is the best player, there may well still be some price point where, in the minds of EDM's management, Seguin + X > Hall.
BOS may not offer "X", and therefore they may not be a deal, but it's got to exist from EDM's POV.
Speeds - I completely understand what you are saying - but the team may never pick #1 again for a generation - you take BPA and don't over think the situation because the outcome is unclear.
ReplyDeleteBut if BOS wants to give us something to guarantee getting our #2 - sure - take it.
I still find it amazing that Lowetide is so attuned to the org's comments about Riley Nash, and then can say something re: Taylor Chorney like, "I think we can agree there's legit concern about this player in the higher reaches of Oiler management." Where's the evidence?
ReplyDeleteMatt: Saying "I think" implies that we don't have direct knowledge but the tea leaves are arranged just that way.
ReplyDelete@Matt,LT,
ReplyDeleteI was thinking the same thing as Matt. LT, the tea leaves may be pointing that way, but I doubt the Oilers can read them right.
There should be concern? Sure. There is concern? The *only* evidence supporting that opinion is that (see above) there should be concern. The evidence contradicting that opinion is pretty consistent manner in which the player has been spoken of and deployed.
ReplyDelete