Saturday, May 8, 2010

Oilers Draft 2010: Development at age 20

During the Prendergast era, the Edmonton Oilers developed a strange habit of getting great value from supposed "weak" drafts (in 2002--a weak draft--KP plucked two actual players in Stoll and Greene in the second round and added another who has played in the show in JDD) and whiffing on some great opportunities (the top 90 in 2003 was chock full of talent, and the club had 3 picks in 2007 and two of those have not developed as the organization hoped).

I think these were the main reasons Kevin Prendergast got the bump and Stu MacGregor moved into the director's chair in time for the 2008 entry draft. Glen Sather told his troops in 1994 that they didn't have to hit a home run with the two early picks (4 and 6) but he needed those two kids to be NHL players. KP and the scouts got it right on Ryan Smyth and missed by a mile with Jason Bonsignore.

From 2001-07 (I call it the Prendergast era of drafting but Kevin Lowe was certainly a big part of it) the Oilers had several irritating habits:
  1. Drafting for need. Plante is a perfect example of it. The big defender was projected by many as a first round selection but a reach at that spot.
  2. Drafting mountain men out of order. Several times during this era the club would select big forwards miles before their projection.
  3. Not bringing Euro kids over in a timely fashion. Jani Rita is the obvious example but Mikhnov and Zoukov and a few others in the last decade had all kinds of issues that impacted their development.
  4. AHL oprhans. The Bulldogs turned into the Roadrunners who turned into a dog's breakfast and in the last couple of seasons there just wasn't enough quality on the minor league team to deliver success and properly develop these young men.
In the thread below we talked about the value of measuring progress after the draft. I've always believed that you can learn a lot about a prospect each season. Is he healthy? Did he perform at a higher level than last season? Is he making progress similar to quality players who have come before? I believe this has exceptional value.

Let's take a player like Johan Motin. Oilers picked him in 2008 and not only got him over here for TC but he stayed in North America in 2009-10 and played an NHL game. We shouldn't underestimate the value of AHL experience, it's an extremely tough league for these kids (especially G and D) to navigate. This sort of career path just didn't happen that often earlier in the decade and there's a trail of failed draft picks from Sweden, Russia and Finland to show it. Would Alexander Bumagin be a better NA style player if he'd come over early (or at all)? At the very least, the depth chart is deeper when your draft picks are in the minor leagues and available for recall during the season.

I call them arrows. Pouliot's arrows were a mixed bag from the beginning (even his draft day scouting reports stated some concerns and his injuries go back pre-draft) and even though we forget about those down arrows they still impact a career. So when we talk about the 2008 entry draft and give credit to the organization for having what looks like a strong one, we're also paying due respect to blind damn luck and the God of injury.

And two years is in fact a long time. We had concerns about all measure of first and second round picks by the time they signed pro contracts during the KP era. Here's a list of top 50 selections 2001-07 and what we thought about them two summers after their draft day:
  1. Ales Hemsky: He was in the NHL by 20 and was on his way.
  2. Doug Lynch: Good arrows until after his 20-year old season and the wrist injury.
  3. Jesse Niinimaki: Severe shoulder injury just past 20.
  4. JDD: Did not improve in the season after his draft.
  5. Jarret Stoll: Drafted at 20, he was tracking well all down the line.
  6. Matt Greene: Strong resume through 20th birthday.
  7. Marc Pouliot: Injuries have had a major impact on his career, beginning pre-draft.
  8. Colin McDonald: We knew he wasn't developing as a scorer very early on.
  9. Devan Dubnyk: Ran in place as a junior.
  10. Rob Schremp: There were skating and attitude concerns pre-draft.
  11. Roman Tesliuk: He was a mistake and they knew early on.
  12. Andrew Cogliano: Arrows were all good (save size) through 20.
  13. Taylor Chorney: Size was a concern on draft day.
  14. Jeff Petry: Solid arrows through 20.
  15. Sam Gagner: Only concerns I recall were with regard to early UFA status.
  16. Alex Plante: Injuries a major concern right after draft day.
  17. Riley Nash: The organization has soured on him in a big way.
From that list of 17, we can safely say that all of Pouliot, McDonald, Schremp, Tesliuk, Plante and Nash were real concerns by age 20. We could also add DD and JDD but goalies develop in a wonky way, so we won't count them. So about 35% of the top 50 picks during the KP era had injury or performance issues by the time they reached 20.

This is why I think we can give some credit to Macgregor (and thank Lady Luck) for the impressive two seasons after the draft from Eberle, Motin and Hartikainen. For a five pick draft (with tweener Cornet and organization pick Bendfeld) this thing is tracking quite well. For Macgregor to select Eberle at #22 is a very impressive statement based on his performance since that day.

104 comments:

  1. Not related to this post, but I thought people would want to know that Jagr re-upped today with his KHL team (Avangard Omsk). It's a one-year deal.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=5165917

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  2. whoops... apparently he signed the deal Tuesday... just assumed the story was fresh... apologies

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  3. Woodleif from Redline was on Stauffer's show yesterday and said when he was with Nashville they used psychological testing a lot and this made sense as the owner was spending millions in signing higher draft picks.

    I read a Prendergast quote on HF to the effect that the Oilers didn't rely much at all on the interview process and in support of the way he operated he cited Hemsky who had a terrible interview.

    In short I don't think the Oilers did much "research" for the draft or did the wrong kind of research or had the wrong people doing it. It still boggles that they went against conventional wisdom so often. Surely the EIG could have afford subscriptions to the Redline Report and Central and International Scouting Reports are free.

    In 2008 most Oiler fans were hoping that Eberle would be available. But Nash and Plante were reaches. In the Doan/Kelly and Parise/Pouliot drafts, we know who the fans wanted and who was ranked higher. Do the Oilers just want to prove they are smarter than your average bear?

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  4. Bonsignore was all on Barry Fraser. One shouldn't blame KP or the other scouts for that. The 5-bell alarm of a head scout based in Mexico didn't seem to perturb Sather.

    With the Mikhnov and Penner episodes, it is clear MacT has issues/difficulties dealing with Mahovlich types.

    Mikhnov was probably a player. MacT never gave him a chance, and had no inclination to make anyl effort to find out.

    They didn't play like Terry O'Reilly or Cam Neely so MacT had no use for them.

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  5. //Woodleif from Redline was on Stauffer's show yesterday and said when he was with Nashville they used psychological testing a lot and this made sense as the owner was spending millions in signing higher draft picks.//

    How many playoff series has Nashville won? David Poile teams have a twentysomething year history of underperforming in the playoffs. Blowing the 3-1 series lead was a hallmark of his teams in Washington.

    If one are going to use an example, shouldn't one use an example of a success, rather than one of perpetual mediocrity.

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  6. If we are going to use David Poile as a model GM,
    David Poile uses more 1st round draft picks on defensemen than probably any other GM.

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  7. "How many playoff series has Nashville won? David Poile teams have a twentysomething year history of underperforming in the playoffs."

    If you stuck David Poile's drafting and development in a club that had money like New York or Toronto they would be the new Detroit or New Jersey. Poile should get a tonne of credit. Without him Nashville would be the new Atlanta and that would make them the new Kansas City.

    "Surely the EIG could have afford subscriptions to the Redline Report and Central and International Scouting Reports are free."

    This is just ignorant.

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  8. "If we are going to use David Poile as a model GM, David Poile uses more 1st round draft picks on defensemen than probably any other GM."

    How many teams have a better D core than Nashville? I don't see your point.

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  9. I can't find it right now (the boy and I are doing runs to the dump while the little lady repeats over and over again "you drink too much beer" because I throw all the bottle caps in a corner in the basement. (Let that be a lesson to you all. HIDE THE EVIDENCE).

    Anyway, Guy Flaming did an interview a long time ago about the Doan and Bonsignore picks and iirc all the scouts agreed on the picks at that time. So we can blame Fraser for lots of things but those picks are on the whole staff.

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  10. Godot: CSS had Getzlaff ranked at #5, Parise at #9, and Pouliot at #13 for North American skaters.

    I would also venture that Poile and Woodleif are better hockey men than Lowe and Prendergast. As for Tambo time will tell, but I have grave doubts.

    As a fan, I always thought that the Oilers had the best hockey management, coaching, fans, media, and heart and soul. That Edmonton would always be near the top. As I've "matured" I have come to realize that money and greed make the world go round. I think the Oilers are still in a huge hole because of Pocklington. They have never recovered and I hope that Katz long term will be a "savior". It all comes down to ownership.

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  11. I'm kinda tired of all the Lowe hate out there. He seemed to field competitive teams (hard to play against, all rowing the boat together) even during the dark days of limited funds. I believe Lowe's influence and mis-steps can be attributed to an inability to manage resources when funds were available. He's like a puncher who decided to turn into a boxer...not a good transition. I wish old-school Oiler hockey was the order of the day. Tough to play against and only a player or two away from being a contender...that's where the money should come in.

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  12. In hindsight, I think he was a poor choice for GM. Lowe seemed to be at odds with so many of his players (Comrie, Smyth) and he had a terrible plan in terms of replacing Pronger (as in no plan to replace Pronger).

    In fact, i think you can make a reasonable argument that the 2006 team was built on the back of good contracts from the pre-lockout era and that Kevin Lowe's decision making in 2006 summer was a bullet to the temple for this organization.

    1. Trade Pronger for prospects and young players.
    2. No effort to replace Pronger's minutes with a top flight (even Spacek) defender.
    3. A decision not to sign Smyth but a concerted effort to sign every other veteran on the club (both ufa and rfa).

    That's some shitty decisioning.

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  13. Got to call you out on the Plante assumptions LT.

    Oilers brass knew all along he was going to be a long-term project. Said Prendergest;

    "We just liked the potential. He's 6-foot-4, 215 pounds. We feel he's probably gonna be 230, 235 when he's ready to play in the NHL, but his hockey sense is great."

    If the Oilers brass thought he was a draft and follow, it's really hard to call him one of two "misses" in 07. I know our defense was cobbled together with duct tape this year, but for a 20 year old defender to get in 4 games in the show should be considered a bonus. That's a plus arrow in my mind.

    He had the bad year post-draft, I'll spot you that point. But you know what? He came back in his last junior season better than ever, and was able to show he wasn't just Karl Alzner's running mate. 3rd highest +/- on the team's defense, and you know Postma wasn't playing the toughs, to go along with a career high in points. Plus arrow again.

    His first professional season? Huge success in my mind. He should be passing Chorney on the depth chart as early as TC given their respective seasons, which pegs him as 8-9 in the collective organizational depth chart IMO. None of us thought he'd bring the junior offense to the professional ranks but he was still able to contribute some. I think his first pro season should constitute a plus arrow.

    He still has the size and hockey sense arrows going in the right direction, and from reports that suggest his skating is improving, that's a minus arrow we should soon cross off.

    Yes, he has the injury arrow pointing straight towards hell, and it should never be overlooked becuase it's a hell of a long arrow, but to be writing him off already seems premature. He's got tools similar to Cory Cross, and I wouldn't kick a Cross-type off this team.

    I'll freely admit I'm a fan of this kid. Nearly hit the ceiling when KP called his name. He's a local boy with ties to Manitoba, and as LT has his Pouliot and Bruce has Zorg, I won't be writing off Plante until he retires.

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  14. "If we are going to use David Poile as a model GM, David Poile uses more 1st round draft picks on defensemen than probably any other GM."

    //How many teams have a better D core than Nashville? I don't see your point.//

    I think the majority of people who post on this blog subscribe to the thesis that one shouldn't draft defensemen in the first round. (I don't have any problem with drafting defensemen in the first round.)

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  15. I like Plante too. Looked good.

    Can't be worst than Jason Strudwick.

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  16. dorito: My overall point was that many of these kids begin gathering down arrows before age 20. Plante most certainly did have injury concerns after draft day and before his 20th birthday.

    Which was the point I was making.

    Having said all of that, he did have a nice first pro season and that is a huge deal. We know it is a giant step between junior and AHL and Plante made that transition very well (based on math and scouting reports).

    I like him a lot.

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  17. Godot: Drafting Ryan Ellis in the first round was stupid.

    Like calling MAB in the first round.

    Kulikov was a more reasonable choice. But i agree to the fact it's not a very good choice to pick NCAA long term D kids. Usually finish theyr schooling and come up in the Bigs at 24-25.

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  18. I think Plante is tracking just fine. As long as he can stay healthy, I think he'll be ready as a 1st or 2nd callup next year on D, potentially filling in a double digit amount of games.

    I think Rob Daum was right in the sense, that Plante's game translates better to the NHL game than it does to the AHL, where there is a lot more structure. Plante's speed is always going to be in question, its just a matter of him thinking the game the right way.

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  19. LT:

    Fair enough with respect to the injury arrow. However, I'd argue that Chorney's size and Petry's lack of competition arrows should come into play just as heavily.

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  20. This Hartikainen issue is a fucking joke.

    What would have happened if Guy or any of the other media people wouldn't have brought the issue up to the Oilers brass?

    FFS...

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  21. Never liked the Plante pick at the time, but since we are stuck with him I am cheering for him. I think he is doing fine. I don't know if Plante is a 'draft for need' pick or part of another pattern.

    I think there is a pattern with the Oilers picking a forward and then a defense man. Discounting goalie picks, the Oilers have picked a defenseman immediately after picked a forward 5 out of 10 time (08, 07, 05, 04 and 01). I am thinking that the 31st pick will be best Dman still on the board . . . unless one of the Oilers' highly coveted forwards drops a lot.

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  22. Is there any nonanecdotal evidence to confirm that the AHL does a better job developing players than the NHL, SEL, NCAA, etc.?

    Is it possible that Gagner, Brule, and anyother player's development path would have been largely or entirely unaffected if they'd spent less time in the NHL? Is there any evidence saying Eberle would be a better player now if he had played in the AHL all of last season.

    I worry all of this stuff about player X needs to be in league Y to develop may be all "sophistry and illusion" to quote my main man Hume, who was clearly a number's guy. Where's the evidence?

    If I'm wrong, I'd love to see why.

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  23. kris: I think we can ask the question about Gagner only in regard to earlier free agency.

    Having said that, Cogliano (from what we know a smart player) appears at times to be lost out there. I think some minor league time (after college) might have helped him.

    In fact, I think they should have sent him down to the minors this season.

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  24. Kris - I know that one thing Tambo has mentioned is that he feels guys are easier to teach when they're in the AHL, because a trip to the bigs is the stick-and-carrot.

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  25. LT:

    they couldn't have sent Cogliano to the minors this past season, as he'd have had to clear waivers

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  26. Godot said....

    Mikhnov was probably a player. MacT never gave him a chance, and had no inclination to make anyl effort to find out.

    Have you seen Mikhnov play? I mean, attempt to play in the NHL? I've never seen a sadder debut. He didn't want to stay here and work on his issues, so that inclination's all on him and not MacT.

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  27. In fairness, he played about 10 minutes total in the show.

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  28. True enough, but they were a pretty bad ten minutes.

    He was unwilling to play in the A, so I'm not sure how we can hang that on MacT.

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  29. speeds: Really? They can't send him down in year three? That's crazy. You'd think the team could send a player down during his entry level deal.

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  30. "I won't be writing off Plante until he retires."

    I like this attitude. I often feel the paper analysis that goes on tosses way too many players under the uptown bus. I feel the same way about Robert Nilsson - I hope his success is in Edmonton, not elsewhere and especially not against the Oilers.

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  31. LT: There's a set ammount of games before he needs to be protected.

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  32. fpb: I still think a team should be able to send out a struggling player during his entry level contract.

    Didn't it used to be number of seasons as opposed to gp?

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  33. LT: I think so.

    But if you believe enough in a player to cross the line for Waivers in the NHL, you shouldn't have to send him to the AHL.

    I think it's a pretty fair rule. Just forces the teams to manage theyr kids better.

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  34. LT: A combination of both, I believe. The kind of thing that confuses Oiler management to no end.

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  35. For me, the draft is one of the most interesting days of the hockey year. You never know what kind of player the team will get, and that's exciting. It's even better this year, when the Oilers have what seems to be a safe decision between two talented prospects.
    I will admit that I get nervous on draft day, because the Oilers have a history of making bizarre picks and, in my opinion, botching the projected draft order. Two examples that come to mind are Mikhnov and Nash. When Mikhnov was picked, it was a surprise (much confusion and head scrathing by Bob McKenzie on the draft broadcast), which begs the question on how much later they could have waited and still drafted him. It hurts when you waste a first round pick on someone who may have been around in the 4th round (or later). With Nash, the Hockey News had him projected 95. What are the odds that he would have been around in the 2nd round? Pretty good, in my opinion.

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  36. Cogs signed his 1st contract as a 19 yo. I believe that gets him 4 years or 160 games of waiver exemption.

    At the start of this season Cogliano had played 164 games.

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  37. Hey folks

    LT - on the Cogliano issue, this is something all those here in Oilersland need to think long and hard about when we talk about doing a "total rebuild" - especially those who think we should trade Penner and Hemsky for younger players...

    in the current CBA a player needs to clear waivers when they are 22 if they signed when they were 19 after their final year of junior. That is how we lost Schremp. How can you develop a team properly when a player can only spend two years in the minors???

    A long rebuild can't work because of the above problem and the issue of players becoming UFA's at such a young age. JBo should have been a Panther for life. Not their fault he did not want to sign, same with Kovalchuk. How do you build a franchise when you have to start over every 7 years??

    Regardless, my main reason for posting here is to ask what you smart people think of the Oilers targeting Scott Hartnell to play left wing this coming season. Apparently the Flyers fans and media hate him as much as the Oilers fans hated Penner last year. His contract has been called "radioactive" by a flyers' analyst on Gregor's show on Friday. A separate Flyers radio colour man on Stauffer's show hinted that Hartnell is the most hated player for the Flyers amongst the fans and that they want to lose some money up front this sunner to go after a pp qb like Gonchar.

    This to me means they would be open to dump HArtnell. Not sure if they would take just anything back, like the Oilers current crap of Nilsson, POS or Moreau, or even Souray...but I would gladly trade any of the above for Hartnell.

    He had a terrible year but scored 30 the year before. He is only 28, barely had any injuries in his career, can fight, and averaged 23 goals per season the last 5 seasons including this last season where he only scored 13.

    Would be a perfect winger for Seguin on the second line imo to protect him and hopefully pot afew. Whether they play Hemmer there to help Seguin succeed and to give Hemsky that physical protection Hartnell would provide that he has long asked for, or play Brule or Eberle with them I am not sure but seems to me a valuable young commodity like that needs a physical presence on his line that can also play some hockey.

    What do you folks think? He brings a $4.2 million cap hit for three more years. Hopefully they can trade out some crap to get him, or if they buy the three forwards mentioned above out, the cap may not be such a problem.

    A Lloyd boy who grew up cheering for the Oilers. Hopefully this is a fit..

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  38. //Have you seen Mikhnov play? I mean, attempt to play in the NHL? I've never seen a sadder debut. He didn't want to stay here and work on his issues, so that inclination's all on him and not MacT.//

    There are always cultural adjustment issues with Russians. if your coach (and team) isn't prepared to compensate for them and help the player adjust, the GM and the scouts shouldn't be drafting them. (Yet some people here keep screaming for the Oilers to draft Russians.)

    If I remember correctly, didn't Mikhnov sit in the pressbox for a month before he got into that one game.

    Mikhnov has played extremely well in a couple of World Championships.

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  39. I've always liked Hartnell and depending on the price (they'd have to take some money) would be all for it. Certainly an upgrade on all LW's from this past season not named Penner.

    Shingen: Nash wasn't going to last too long. Redline had him #24 and Bob McKenzie had him #33.

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  40. Isn't Hartnell one of the Philadelphia party boys?

    The Oilers are going to be a bunch of impressionable youngsters, and you want to bring in a hardcore nightlife guy.

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  41. godot10: I have no idea about his lifestyle and that is certainly a consideration. I was speaking in hockey terms.

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  42. LT: I guess you like stupid penalties.

    Just imagine Ethan Moreau with more skill. Sure he's a good player, but he is going to take unecesseray penalties each game or so.

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  43. cfp: Yeah, that's it. I like seeing the Oilers take stupid penalties and that's why I want Hartnell on my team.

    Is this your argument? Really?

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  44. Khabibulin for Hartnell please and thank you.

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  45. Godot...

    You point out the need for time to adjust, but you also point out him sitting in the PB and not getting enough chance to play. Huh?

    He had all the opportunity to get playing time and adjust to N. America in the A, decided that route wasn't for him and bolted for Ruskieland. Fair enough, but how can that possible be on MacT?

    He was doing okay in the A, but not knocking the cover of the ball or anything--certainly not enough to demand a one way contract.

    And in his ten minute sip of coffee, he displayed a marked lack of what Burke would call truculence.

    MacT is responsible for a player's lack of intestinal fortitude (and that could have been a confidence issue, I don't know), his unwillingness to play in the A and his decision to leave for Russia?

    Sorry. I'm not buying what you're selling.

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  46. Please not the Habs. Please not the Habs. Please not the Habs. Please god. Please.

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  47. well i was wondering if they would take Nilsson or POS for him?

    Sometimes I think some teams have too many similar players. The Oilers have too many small skilled play makers with no tough gritty goal scorers. Seems to me the flyers have tough gritty centers like Richards and Carter and not enough finesse players. Hartnell with Richards maybe does not work but maybe Hartnell with Hemsky on the other wing would be dandy?

    That being said for all I know Hartnell played with Briere last year. I don't watch them much. I know from his Nashville days I liked Hartnell and wished he signed him before Philly got his rights from Nashville.

    One cheaper, less risky gamble on LW the Oilers could try would be Taylor Pyatt out of Phoenix. He played for 700k last year. Even at 1 million or so he would be the Oilers second line mos=t likely . Penner light. 230 pounds, a bit soft, top5 draft pick in 2000.
    Scored 23 goals one year in Vancouver, solid 2-3 liner with size, not sure if he ever fights.

    Plus 13 this year in Phoenix that looks good. Scored 13 goals with I believe almost no pp time.

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  48. Looks like the Habs are executing their master plan of being horribly out played once again.

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  49. Subban is a beauty skater. If he learns to play defense Montreal will have a helluva player.

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  50. LT: No. Just that for the type of guy Hartnell is (25-25-50) i don't think the number of minors he takes is worth it.

    I mean... 160 PIm jeez. I know you like guys with grit but you can be gritty with the penalty.

    Don't you think it's a negative aspect we should check up, since our PK isn't so shiny?

    BTW: The Plekanec non-call was horible. Getting hooked before he gets a clear breakaway.

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  51. Letang. And Malkin has joined the party.

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  52. Jesus Christ. Refs! WTF.

    Crosby can hook all he wants. No call. Heh.

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  53. FPB:

    Montreal has gotten more than their fair share of calls, and flop all over the ice at every given opportunity.

    They also got away with an egregious too many men at the end of the period, but of course since the CBC loves the Habs, "that was okay, because he was getting off the ice!"

    Fuck the Habs, fuck this run, and can't wait until they're eliminated.

    Bergeron got blown up. Wow.

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  54. PDO: What are you menstruated?

    I mean fuck. It's not even your team or something close to them.

    Subban got hooked by Crosby and it was crystal clear, same for Plekanec on a breakaway. But then they get the ''Magic call'' of Cross-Checking. It happens every fucking play.

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  55. PDO: What are you menstruated?

    I think this blog needs more idioms that don't translate well.

    (FPB, that's not a shot at you; your English is probably better than my French these days. It's just that, whatever sense that comment made in French, it got lost in translation, which is delightful.)

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  56. I'm still mad about the too many men penalty 20 years ago so can't settle the argument beyond suggesting the Habs are evil

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  57. Seriously WTF.

    Malkin just hooked the shit out of a guy and Kostitsyn got knee'd.

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  58. Habs can go suck rotting lizard eggs. And that was a hip check.

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  59. Spoiler: Below on on the knee it's still a penalty.

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  60. The constant whining about officiating, the arrogance despite being horribly out-played game in and game out, and the god damn soccer songs are all fantastic reasons to hate Montreal.

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  61. PDO: Well stop watching shit that makes you frustrated you doofus.

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  62. FPB:

    Luckily, Montreal only has 4 periods left in their season.

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  63. PDO: Well stop watching shit that makes you frustrated you doofus.

    You realize you're talking to Oiler fans, right? That's kind of what we do.

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  64. PDO: Well you don't learn fast you dumb child.

    What happened to those 3 periods we had left vs The Capitals?

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  65. There's that arrogance again..

    Don't you have math homework to be doing?

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  66. PDO: Yes a great way to show an example by being even more arrogant.

    A correct sentence would be: Don't you have a math homework to do?

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  67. A correct sentence would be: Don't you have a math homework to do?

    15 kinds of awesome.

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  68. 15 kinds of awesome.

    I'm only up to 12; can you help me out with the rest?

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  69. I don't laugh out loud very often when I'm home alone...but reading the last hour or so of the comments has had me doing so. Several times.

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  70. Those refs are sure out to get Montreal.

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  71. Geez that Subban can play. Has made a few rookie mistakes during the game today but hes a player.

    But fuck the habs. i hope the pens finish em off monday

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  72. I can't believe Sutter basically dumped Camalleri and Lombardi and a pick for Olli Jokinen.

    What a dummy.

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  73. Habs finally got what they deserved in a game despite the refs giving them their guaranteed end of the game powerplay--a loss.

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  74. Spoiler: Dupuis broke Gionta's stick slashing it. How the fuck can the refs be biased on that one?

    It's an automatic penalty, no judgement required.

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  75. LT
    "I wish Cogliano was Camalleri."

    LT

    I wish Dirk Digglers dick was my own....alas it is not!!!

    Cammeleri and Coglaino are both short...... course in shooting the puck Cammeleri tries to miss the goalie

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  76. Yeah, because my comment referred to this game and this game only. Yeah, sure.

    Besides, isn't it an automatic penalty every time a Pen touches a Hab? Sorry, if I have it wrong, I'm not used to the HabCentric Universe.

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  77. Spoiler: Jesus. Shut the fuck up and watch the games before you talk.

    Watch the 1st goal of the pens game 5.

    + I think the Pens got twice or thrice the powerplays the Habs had.

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  78. FPB: your desire to make this a Habs comment section is less than interesting for those of us who have zero interest in doing the same.

    then your desire to tell people off for disagreeing with you...well...that's something else altogether...

    either way, it makes your participation somewhat over the top, for this particular location (an oiler's blog), at times.

    just saying.

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  79. Jfry: I don't mind disagreeing. Just not using hyper exagerated bullshit like

    ''Besides, isn't it an automatic penalty every time a Pen touches a Hab? .''

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  80. Couture is really emerging this spring. A top 6F role in the fall imo.

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  81. @LT

    both he and ennis (BUF) look to have really put their AHL time to proper use...do i smell eberle?

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  82. @ Jfry

    Eberle won't start to smell until he passes his "best before" date when those 6'4" 220 lb. NHL defensemen start making him pay.

    See Gagner, Sam.

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  83. flamingpavelbure said...

    Spoiler: Jesus. Shut the fuck up and watch the games before you talk.

    Nice. Lose your cool much?

    And dude, you took the blue ribbon for hyperbole much much earlier.

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  84. Lowetide said...

    Couture is really emerging this spring. A top 6F role in the fall imo.

    Yup, has a good shot at it.

    And Pavelski is turning into a freakin god.

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  85. Perhaps it would benefit Gagner to just put on the pounds and work on his strength and conditioning.

    Crosby is only 5'11, but he is 200-205 lbs. Weight used to be around that, um, mass as well.

    I am going to hazard a guess that once Gagner becomes sufficiently strong, his development will accelerate.

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  86. I thought Gagner was already a workout nut?

    He would benefit from Sid's skating too.

    Rafalski!? Well that's no damn help to the playoff pool.

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  87. crosby has a natural base, very few soccer guys even have. apparently MAB is built like a bull in a similar way.

    i think gagne just needs to grow up...most of my friends couldn't naturally start putting on pounds until they were in their mid-twenties and that's just how it goes...

    i'd like to see those amazing shoot out hands again, more than i'd like to see him put on another 20 pounds. seems to me his handsiness, which had us all giddy, have gone the way of greece's bottom line.

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  88. Yeah, from all accounts, Gagner does work out a lot. It's just a case of wishful thinking that Gagner has the ability kick it up a notch and develop more rapidly. I don't know how much time is divided between him working on his technical skills and conditioning. I'm just guessing that it might be of benefit for him to focus on conditioning now and work on technical skills later.

    Then again, I'm no expert...

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  89. It'll turn out to be a heck of a 5 game series.Great hockey.It's entertaining to watch the game played at this level after the gruel we're served up night after night.

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  90. this last minute of SJ/Det has been an awesome face off showdown.

    wow. is detroit getting too old already?

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  91. that and the loss of Samuelsson, Hossa and Hudler.

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  92. Well, Detroit still look mightily capable to my eyes, even tough the Sharks finally ate them.

    But then again, I am easily impressed, becaus I am a habs fans.

    Or, as you call them around these parts: "A whiner".

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  93. If it makes you feel better Olivier Habs fans are treated with slightly less contempt and loathing than Flames, Canucks and Leafs fans.

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  94. Sorry Lowetide but part of the problem with bloggers is they don't do any research for what they try to pass off as subjective media.

    Plante was very highly rated going into the draft. ISS had him 15th overall. If you had any of the other draft publications you would have known that he shot up the draft charts late in the season. If you had actually watched him play the final part of the year you would have seen what alot of scouts had seen a dominate physical defensman in the Robyn Regher mold.

    I recall you poo pooed the pick at the time of the selection and you are still doing the same even without actually doing any research

    No wonder people don't take bloggers seriously

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  95. Sorry Lowetide but part of the problem with bloggers is they don't do any research for what they try to pass off as subjective media.

    At least one of those words does not mean what you think it means.

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