Listening to the Hot Stove and reading online this morning, there appears to have been a brief conversation between Boston GM Peter Chiarelli and Oiler head man Steve Tambellini. For Oiler fans, it feels exactly like watching those two hayseeds trying to bring in Josey Wales ("careful, Virg") and the outcome could indeed set the team back forever.Having said that, if there's an advantage to trading down Oilers fans should embrace it. The Bruins (based on this article) are as undecided as the Oilers claim they are later in the same story.
IF the Bruins prefer Hall and Stu (Magnificent Bastard) MacGregor feels Tyler Seguin (complete with massive brain and impressive test results from the combine) is the better long term bet, then the Oilers should discuss a deal with the Bruins.
What can they get in return? I've read everything from Tim Thomas (??????) to Blake Wheeler, but for me a high draft pick (Bruins have another 1 plus an early 2) should be the asking price. Chicago plucked Dave Bolland with an early 2nd in an average draft year.
If the Oilers do trade down (or more likely agree to pass on Taylor Hall and select Seguin #1 overall), then the best possible return would be more bullets for the Magnificent Bastard.
It all depends on who the Oilers think is the BPA.
ReplyDeleteIf it's Hall, draft Hall.
If it's Seguin, and you have suspicion the Bruins think otherwise (logically, looking at the makeup of Boston's team, they'd prefer the winger to the center), you have to do everything you can to extract an additional asset from Boston.
Tim Thomas, no thanks. Blake Wheeler would be good, but another 1st rounder would be even better.
HBomb: Exactly. Do the due diligence and trust your people. I know why it drives Hunter crazy (Oilers have screwed the pooch on this stuff before) but Stu MacGregor wasn't a part of the organization when they selected Bonsignore. He was GM in Kamloops when the Oilers plucked Steve Kelly iirc.
ReplyDeleteHis track record looks good so far, I think we need to trust that he makes the right choice. It might look like a blunder 5 years from now but the information available suggests there are actually two #1's this season.
I have reformed my opinion based on the comments of other posters about trying to add players to a deal with the Bruins to get Toronto's 2011 #1.
ReplyDeleteI think Wheeler might be a better asset to get. Here's why:
Toronto's pick in 2011 is likely just a lottery pick, I want Adam Larsson. That's probably gonna need the winning lottery pick.
Wheeler is a younger, poor man's Penner and I think Penner is very unlikely to re-sign here (unless he marries a local girl). Wheeler is closer in age to the new cluster led by Gagner and allows us the option of building a package around Penner for the 2011 #1 OV.
If Tambellini likes Seguin better, why would BOS pay a huge price for Hall when they could get him for free?
ReplyDeleteI think there's probably a deal there, but talking about first round picks is crazy.
Chiarelli seems like a sharp guy, he'll have a good idea who the Oilers like. And if he thinks it's Seguin, he's not coughing up a 1st when he could sit and wait for Hall to fall into his lap anyways.
Anyone trust our GM to convince him we prefer Hall but could be talked out of it? I don't think The Evaluator can pull that off.
I am interested in a deal...but realistically, I think the odds something happens is zero.
ReplyDeleteIf it does happen, I don't think the payback will be as big as some are expecting. As you pointed out LT, there are 2 number ones...sorting out who gets which one will not command a great deal.
Think of it if the Oilers were picking second. Would we, as fans, want our GM to throw in a first rounder to pick first? I know I wouldn't. Seems like a lot of wishful thinking.
Boondock, well said...beat me to it.
ReplyDeleteI would think Seguin's recent performance at the Combine and the fact that Hall was injured during the Memorial Cup - he is not Gumby after all - has pushed Seguin up again.
ReplyDeleteThe Oilers could use Wheeler but he is getting expensive and didn't sign with the Yotes. He likely would want to walk here too. He doesn't play with a lot of grit for someone his size. I say pass.
Besides if the Oilers are looking for immediate help, it should be on D. The best Bruins D prospect looks to be Tommy Cross - he has some size and looks to be a defensive defenseman. He might fit the bill in terms of value?
The Oilers were rumoured to be interested in Joe Colburne at the draft. Maybe they make a play for him by adding in Riley Nash?
Otherwise, yeah, get as good a pick as possible.
I would be telling Boston that the the scouts are split but management is feeling the pressure from the fan base, so we are taking Hall. Walk into the draft with your Oilers Hall jersey visible under your arm. Unless they are planning to move a center, Boston wants the winger who idolizes Bobby Orr. Let them "Stu" until the last minute.
ReplyDeleteThe deal becomes agreeing to leave Hall on the board, and selecting Seguin first overall (better optics). Send them Souray as well and we get back Wheeler and Wideman.Potentially could squeeze them into also taking Moreau or Nilsson. Wheeler has size and decent hands and is Gagner vintage. Wideman fills out our top 4 Dmen.
Pass on Thomas thanks.
Does anyone know why the combine isn't done more NFL style? What I mean by this is sure they do all the strength and fitness tests but why doesn't every single prospect get skates on so we can clock who can skate the fastest lap. Who can accelerate from a standstill and get to the blueline fastest. A shooting accuracy drill.
ReplyDeleteI am aware it would possibly be somewhat hokey like an all star game skills contest but I'm sure at the very least some timed skating and agility drills would be useful. The NFL would never draft a player without knowing what his 40 time is so why are NHL scouts relying on 'he looks fast' without a number to quantify and compare it?
How about Penner & Souray for Boychuk and the B's 2nd overall pick? If we can hire two head coaches, why can't we land both of the premium picks?
ReplyDeleteWishful thinking, ain't it great?
Lowetide: The problem I have is with people who think they are experts and know better than the rest of us AND the Oilers scouts, trumpeting Hall as the "slam dunk #1" and calling anyone who doesn't agree with that position a moron (while not realizing the complete irony of doing such). I think I'd have an issue with this even if I was firmly in support of selecting Hall (right now, I'm leaning ever-so-slightly towards going Seguin if I had the deciding vote in some parallel universe, but my opinion changes with the wind on a daily basis, and I won't be upset regardless of whom we choose) - nowhere has anyone with any degree of expert knowledge come out and said Hall is head and shoulders above Seguin. It hasn't been said because it probably isn't true.
ReplyDeleteNo one here knows any better (or worse) than the rest of us what the Oilers should do, and they damn sure don't know better than Stu MacGregor and Co. which guy is the "correct" pick (noting that time and only time will prove the selection they do make as "right" or "wrong").
I know it reeks of the whole "In Sutter We Trust" mantra that Flames fans trumpeted once upon a time, but I think we all need to relax, sit back and let the guys paid to make the right choice do their job on this. Either way, we're going to get a damn fine player. The difference in the two will be how the plan for next season and beyond rolls out - depending on whether they go with Hall (a winger, likely ready now) or Seguin (a center, potentially needing another OHL year), different complementary personnel moves this summer will be necessitated by picking one over the other.
@BRIdub: There is some kind of 48 hour rule in effect here with these kids. I believe it has to do with rules about pro teams and minor league players.
ReplyDeleteKeep in mind that in the NFL you are drafting college age men, usually 21 or 22.
@ LT: I think you and I were doing the same thing last night. Flipping between SCF G1 and TOJW (best Western ever made BTW).
Bounty hunter #1: You're wanted, Wales.
Josey Wales: Reckon I'm right popular. You a bounty hunter?
Bounty hunter #1: A man's got to do something for a living these days.
Josey Wales: Dyin' ain't much of a living, boy.
i think the minimum current offer is wheeler. If the Bruins draft Hall, they have 6 top 6 guys ahead of Wheeler. He is looking for too much money for a 3rd line guy.
ReplyDeleteI am going to the draft and want to get an autographed on the jersey the guy the Oiler's pick. It isn't real considerate of Tambo to keep me in the dark so long.
My best guess is we get TO's 2nd rounder to pass on Hall. If we get the B's first rounder, I am ecstatic.
If we are in a rebuild, then picks is what we want. And now that we have had time to evaluate progress, i hope the org jettisons some contracts and makes room for the new wave (especially the kids from across the pond). Haartikanen, Lander, Omark, Rajala (although he played in the WHL), Nash (if he is willing to play in the AHL), Vande velde, Petry, Chorney (in the AHL he needs primo minutes). That's a lot of talent in the minors. Clear the Jacques, truckno, etc. types and sign some vets for the big club to fill roles for a few years in order for the new kids to get some at bats in the minors and then in 2 years we are ready to make a real push.
ReplyDeleteAs for Boychuk, he's a group IV UFA, so no need to trade for him. I'd like him as a top 4 signing. Local kid, got his at bats int he minors and looks like a solid all around dman. As long as we don't give him Finger money I'm happy.
The problem I have is with people who think they are experts and know better than the rest of us AND the Oilers scouts, trumpeting Hall as the "slam dunk #1" and calling anyone who doesn't agree with that position a moron
ReplyDeleteI particularly like it when they indicate that they don't know a damn thing about Seguin as one of our prolific commenters did. In fact, at that point it gets comical.
The Oilers could use Wheeler but he is getting expensive and didn't sign with the Yotes. He likely would want to walk here too. He doesn't play with a lot of grit for someone his size. I say pass.
ReplyDeleteWheeler isn't necessarily going to be as expensive as his cap hit last season makes it appear.
His cap hit was 2.8 mil, but his salary was only 875K, the rest were bonuses on his ELC. He only has to be qualified at ~930K this summer, though presumably he'll be positioned to make more than his qualifier.
You can trade dime a dozen veterans at the deadline for 2nd round picks every single year.
ReplyDeleteI don't think anyone here talks about asset management as much as I do, but to tell you the truth part of me wants to say fuck it and give Seguin the joy of being #1 even if Boston is willing to move up and draft Hall #1.
Obviously you don't tell Boston that you want Seguin but what I would do is tell them that we have made up our mind and unless we get blown away we're not interested in discussions. Chiarelli will probably assume we're taking Hall and maybe he panics and offers the moon 5 minutes before selection time. Otherwise no dice.
Wheeler is a very unique player but he's also a player that bailed on the team that drafted him. I'm not sure that's the type of character Tambellini covets.
Anything less than Toronto's 2nd would be extremely tacky imo.
By all accounts both these guys are very close, so maybe the best approach should just be about asset management.
ReplyDeleteHall seems more NHL ready, and Boston is likely has a more win now mentality.
The Oilers are thinking 2-3 years forward.Seguin can go back to the OHL and the WJ tournament and dominate. Maybe not a bad thing if the Oilers crater again next year, and reload with another high pick. Might be better not to bring a bundle of young guys along at once.
Boston gets:
To pick Hall
Souray
Either Moreau or Nilsson
Oilers get:
Seguin
Wheeler
Wideman
to off load baggage and free up salary to trade for/sign useful FA players (ie Eager, Burish, Hamhuis etc)
Would love it if Boston was willing to deal the second pick, but realistically I don't see it happening. Maybe a scenario like the above is the next best thing.
Bruins fans are just as divided between the two players, its funny.
ReplyDeleteOne of them put a compilation video of Seguin together here
Nice to see a little more video on the kid, we've seen so much of Hall.
Ducey: You think so? I don't think the combine results will help Seguin, except in perhaps showing that he's ready for the NHL now. One of the few criticisms of Seguin is that he might not be able to produce in tight checking and some thought he needed to improve his strength along the boards. How much muscle did he put on in the month and a bit that he had off? Was he playing most of the season at that weight and strength? Because if so that's a bit of a warning flag for me. You can have all the strength in the world but if you're not willing to battle it's wasted.
ReplyDeleteBy comparison, Hall looked pretty lean and may now be regarded as the player with more room for improvement in the strength and weight department. Considering his style of play now that seems like a perk to me.
LT
ReplyDeleteAgree with you completely. If we believe that X is better than Y for us and KNOW that Boston wants Y, getting Toronto's second for Nashville's 2nd seems like a very good deal for us
Whole premise is built around absolute silence out of Oiler camp because if they know we are selecting X, there is ZERO risk for them to tell us to go pound sand
dee dee: Thanks for the link. Seguin looks terrific. Those wheels and quick release should play very well with Hemsky.
ReplyDeleteWith the #1 coming - whoever that is - the current young guys on the roster with 2-3 years experience, MPS, Eberle, Lander, CVV, Hartikainen bubbling - Do we really need to waste 2 years of Hemsky and Penner? IF you could pull a shrewd trade and make some solid signings to fill out the D, it's not all that bad.
ReplyDeleteChicago is in salary cap hell next year and they have Skille, Beach and maybe a couple others getting close - if there is a way to pry Patrick Sharp out of there all of a sudden our top 6 would look very good.
From the maker of the video: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=779231
ReplyDeleteHow 'bout the very first one where he screams up the wing and roofs it a la Phil Kessel?
How 'bout that first goal in pink where he holds it and drags it past the sliding dman before going roof?
How 'bout the next play in pink where he draws both dman and drops it off to his winger for an easy tap in?
How 'bout that rush where he pulls it through his legs to beat the dman 1on1?
How 'bout that one where he comes up his off wing, cuts to the middle, flips the puck over the dman's stick and walks into the slot?
How 'bout his skating, just... EXPLODING between Dmen, around Dmen and pulling away from checkers for chances off the rush?
How 'bout those sick seam passes to the low man back door?
How 'bout that spinning 360-pass to a teammate off the far post?
How 'bout that tip goal from the Hat Trick video where he curls out of the corner, feeds the dman, goes to the net and tips it upstairs?
How 'bout that spinning one-timer from his knees near the end of the video?
Starting to like the thought of this guy playing with Hemsky.
The level of noise surrounding the Oilers and Bruins will only increase and that is good for the Oilers.
ReplyDeleteIt appears to be a given that the Bruins would prefer Hall
The oilers are "possibly" struggling with their decision.
Present that to the Bruins and ask them what they would do to sweeten the pot if the Oilers selection would allow the bruins to select HalB
How about Penner & Souray for Boychuk and the B's 2nd overall pick? If we can hire two head coaches, why can't we land both of the premium picks?
ReplyDeleteThe Bruins aren't in a position to add nine million in salary, that would put them over at least one of the two salary caps.
Like HBomb said - if Stu thinks Hall is BPA - then draft Hall. If Stu think Seguin is BPA - then draft Seguin. If you can turn the screws on BOS to lay off our #2 - then do it - but the best I'd expect is a swap of our own 2nd round pick for the BOS #1. That's not much - but neither is the difference between Seguin and Hall - and it could allow us to move up a bit a get a guy we really want.
ReplyDeleteDrafting Hall is simply the right choice.
ReplyDelete1. Stronger track record (history).
2. Proven ability to thrive under pressure and has been in the spotlight since 15 (Memorial Cup, World Juniors, OHL playoffs) - whereas Seguin was among the first cuts at the WJC camp, went pointless in there series HTD with Hall, and has indicated reading the internet bothers him, in addition to claiming going to high school in the States is better.
3. Hall's genuine interest in playing for a Canadian city.
4. Hall's room to grow and physically mature. Bob McKenzie had this to say about Seguin's strong combine testing results [credit: HF]
- Scouts would love to see a skinny/wimpy kid at the combine who had a massive offensive year. That would mean that they have a ton of growth yet to come once they improve their conditioning and muscle mass.
Therefore
- Scouts are less impressed with fully developed kids who had massive years, because they could very well be done maturing physically and don't have the physical growth left to come.
5. Hall is certainly a less of a gamble than Seguin. Hall's track record is symbolic of what we will likely see. Seguin's massive output production jump in one year enhances the risk he'll replicate David Legwand
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=31823
______________
Short version: It may be a long, long time before the Oilers get the 1st overall pick again. There is no reason to be going against the grain (literally every credible scouting agency has Hall ranked ahead of Seguin, sans CSS whom would likely have changed their opinion after the OHL playoffs).
Trading down from the 1st overall pick hasn't worked well for a number of teams.
SMB may have done some good things, but he's also drafted Cameron Abney in the third round - all while Deslauriers, Eakin, Connauton, Hutchings [all players putting up solid numbers] still available.
Nothing convinces me at this point the Oilers should draft that gamble that is Tyler Seguin, over the franchise player that is Taylor Hall.
actually, most credible scouts have Seguin ranked #1.
ReplyDeleteLegwand's a damn fine player.
ReplyDeleteWhich ones are those?
ReplyDeleteHall:
TSN: 1st Overall
CSS: 2nd NA Skater
ISS: 1st Overall
THN: 1st Overall
Also, several credible OHL scouts have indicated Hall clearly should go 1st overall.
This draft is starting to remind me of the Lemieux v Muller debate, with the same potentially terrifying consequences.
ReplyDeleteThe Oilers haven't blown and sucked since 1991 for no other reason than Pocklington.
Personally I think that if indeed they want Seguin, just effing draft him. No deals with the Bruins, etc.
I'd rather the Oilers took a break from trying to look clever all the time, especially since everyone but their myopic fans seem to understand that the Oilers are bordering on being a joke franchise.
Drafting Hall is simply the right choice.
ReplyDeleteIn your opinion. So state it as such and not as if it is absolute fact.
Hall's genuine interest in playing for a Canadian city.
Please provide proof that Seguin isn't equally as interested in playing for a Canadian team.
Hall's room to grow and physically mature. Bob McKenzie had this to say about Seguin's strong combine testing results
There has been equal indication that Seguin also has room to physically grow. But let's only state one side of the story, shall we?
Hall is certainly a less of a gamble than Seguin.
Just go ahead and try and prove this statement. You can't.
Short version: It may be a long, long time before the Oilers get the 1st overall pick again. There is no reason to be going against the grain (literally every credible scouting agency has Hall ranked ahead of Seguin, sans CSS whom would likely have changed their opinion after the OHL playoffs).
Not one agency has come out and said there's a wide gap between Seguin and Hall.
Trading down from the 1st overall pick hasn't worked well for a number of teams.
Ottawa picked Daigle at #1 and Chris Pronger went #2. Dipietro over Heatley and Gaborik is another example. That door swings both ways.
Nothing convinces me at this point the Oilers should draft that gamble that is Tyler Seguin, over the franchise player that is Taylor Hall.
And that's once again your opinion, and not gospel fact. Only time will prove which one is a franchise player.
It's fine to have a point of view, but to come across as an arrogant prick who thinks he knows better than everyone else makes one look like an idiot.
As the article linked to by DeeDee shows, one can assemble an equally impressive case for drafting Seguin, without being an asshole about it as an added bonus.
Hbomb: perfectly and eloquently stated.
ReplyDeleteThanks!
HBomb sure loves to call everyone who thinks Hall is the better player "arrogant" or "a prick" or any of the other fine expressions he has used.
ReplyDeleteHBomb: Did Ottawa trade down to select Daigle? No.
ReplyDeleteI love the way this guy tosses in random facts, painting them into some kind of coherent form that only exists in his imagination, not reality.
Then again, he is an Oilers fan. Twenty years of suckitude means your fan base degenerates, another reason I prefer talking to Wings fans about hockey - as fans of a winning team they understand the dynamic of success, unlike many of the pussy whipped copper and blue affectianados, lol.
Hunter: I'm an arrogant prick too. I'm leaning toward Seguin anyway.
ReplyDeletedon't lump all of us together Hunter, ok? the bottom line is, it doesn't matter who we bicker amongst ourselves about which player we should take, the Oilers will damn well chose who THEY want, and we fans will just have to live with it.
ReplyDeletePJO's arguments would be much stronger if they were coming from someone else. He's a couple notches below HF clown.
ReplyDelete5. Hall is certainly a less of a gamble than Seguin.
ReplyDeleteLess of a gamble to produce at the NHL level? Probably. But which one is more likely to be in a wheelchair by age 25?
Seguin turning out to be David Legwand is a risk, but so is Hall turning out to be Eric Lindros or Gilbert Brule.
Hunter: God damit you make no sense. Just take Daigle, if OTT would have traded down to N2, they would have gotten Pronger, as Daigle was consensus N1.
ReplyDeleteDoor swings both ways as Hbomb said. And for the ''prick'' thing it was only a comparison ''acting like a prick'' not calling himself directly.
As for the Lemieux and Muller reference, WTF. Could you take a worst exemple? We're not taking 2 guys tied for N1 here, talking about a guy with 284 points and alltime QJMHL records vs a 94 points guy. Do the math.
Hunter:
ReplyDeleteFirst off, if you read back, you'll see I'm not hardcore pro-Seguin and am very neutral on this issue. My issue is not with PJO's position on Hall, but it is with his arrogant presentation of it as fact.
Second, even though Ottawa didn't trade down to select Daigle, the guy who went first overall didn't end up being the best player. Point being? Even at the top end, the draft is a crap-shoot.
Finally, this BS:
I love the way this guy tosses in random facts, painting them into some kind of coherent form that only exists in his imagination, not reality.
Then again, he is an Oilers fan. Twenty years of suckitude means your fan base degenerates, another reason I prefer talking to Wings fans about hockey - as fans of a winning team they understand the dynamic of success, unlike many of the pussy whipped copper and blue affectianados, lol.
Random facts? The fact you accuse me of such a thing when I'm promoting backing up one's opinions, not to mention your frequent outlandish statements with no evidence whatsoever, is several types of ironic.
PJO is the worst Hall booster there is. seguin thinks going to high school in the states is better? Why the flying fuck would it matter? Maybe the teachers actually know how to teach? that was the most useless fact out of all your weak litttle arguments.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous: I've got to clarify this for the record - there is NO issue with PJO being a Hall booster. I'm on record as saying that selecting Taylor over Tyler would be perfectly acceptable.
ReplyDeleteIt's not the message, it's the delivery. The absolute disrespect shown by some (read: PJO and Hunter) for the Seguin viewpoint is sometihng I cannot understand and I don't think it justified.
There would be NOTHING wrong with the Oilers choosing to select Tyler Seguin, just like there would be NOTHING wrong with them selecting Taylor Hall. I don't see what's so hard to understand about this, and I also don't see the proof that one is clearly head and shoulders above the other at this point - certainly no one who could be considered an expert has come out and said so much.
Kumbaya, My Lord, Kumbaya...
ReplyDeleteHBomb: You can talk until the cows come home about me(and a lot of what you say will be true), however, you using Daigle/Pronger to prove a point about trading down in the draft makes zero sense no matter how you frame it.
ReplyDeleteRhetorically speaking it's a red herring.
Anyway you are entitled to your opintion, just like anyone else. I freely admit I know next to nothing about Seguin, and were the idiots(Oilers management) to pick him I guess I'll have to suck on it like everyone else.
Having said THAT - Hall is a 2 time Memorial Cup MVP ...which must be akin to sticking your shovel into the garden and discovering 500 tons of pure gold, for statistical probability's sake. As a gambler from wayy back, I like those kind of odds. Fuck central scouting, I know what I see, and Hall oozes superstar. Seguin I simply have no idea about.
LOL @ HBomb, saying i disrespect the Seguin camp.
ReplyDeleteBlimey. Talk about baloney served as sirloin steak.
ReplyDeleteAnyway you are entitled to your opintion, just like anyone else. I freely admit I know next to nothing about Seguin, and were the idiots(Oilers management) to pick him I guess I'll have to suck on it like everyone else.
You know nothing about Seguin, yet say we'd be idiots to pick him? I'd suggest you start by reading the article DeeDee linked to.
And you can "LOL" at me all you want, the irony just continues to build on itself.
HBomb: I've tried to be reasonable with you. Obviously nothing works, and as this isn't my blog, and I cannot tell you what I really think, out of respect for our host, Lowetide.
ReplyDeleteDo feel free to visit my blog and repeat anything you say that attacks me here, and I will be certain to give it my full attention.
Hunter: You're the fool here, not Hbomb.
ReplyDelete"You know nothing about Seguin, yet say we'd be idiots to pick him?"
ReplyDeleteHBomb: What exactly makes you believe that you are part of the process to pick Seguin?
Do you work for the Oilers? Are you Kevin Lowe?
I've heard about people trying to wrap themselves in the flag to make themselves look bigger, but this is getting silly.
@ flamingpavelbure:
ReplyDeleteJust by looking at the posts you have made here, on Lowetide, I suggest you go and look in the mirror before you start tossing accusations around.
Seguin's massive output production jump in one year enhances the risk he'll replicate David Legwand
ReplyDeletePJO, it's odd that you'd keep using Legwand as a comp, since his production actually dropped in his second year in junior from his rookie season. Oops.
Hunter: if you've tried being reasonable, you sure have an odd way of showing it. You call the Oilers managemenet "idiots" when suggesting the prospect of drafting Seguin? How is that reasonable, I ask?
ReplyDeleteIt's bad enough that one tries to shove their position on the Hall/Seguin debate down everyone else's throats, but when they outwardly admit they don't know anything about the guy they're not in favor of drafting, well....how much can their opinion be valued?
Suggestion: go to school on Seguin. Then I'll be game to debate the merits of he versus Hall with you.
I think we're in the lucky position of having two great players in this draft. I mean, sometimes you can have these heated debates because there are serious concerns about each player. But, really, there aren't a lot of red flags for either player.
ReplyDeleteHall
1. Injury concerns going forward
2. He is pretty dumb looking
Seguin
1. He has had something of a breakout year, so there isn't as much of a history to go on
2. He didn't will his crappy team to the Memorial cup
Neither real concern for Hall or Seguin is the kind of thing that is particularly troubling. I mean, injuries suck and derail careers, but believing we can forecast Hall's future injuries is thinking too much (though I do think it is a legitimate issue given his style of play, just not something we can know); Seguin's lack of previous performance is over-stated, and the year he had this year is not something that comes through luck.
Whoever the Oilers pick will be a fine player in this league.
...oh, Lord, Kumbaya.
ReplyDeleteHunter: It's not because i did something that I can't point it out.
ReplyDeleteThat's a bullshit arguement.
That's like saying a murderer couldn't recognize another.
HBomb: What exactly makes you believe that you are part of the process to pick Seguin?
ReplyDeleteDo you work for the Oilers? Are you Kevin Lowe?
I've heard about people trying to wrap themselves in the flag to make themselves look bigger, but this is getting silly.
Once again, read back and try to prove that I'm strongly pro-Seguin. As I've clearly stated, I'm good with either pick. I've also said that I'm not part of the process and that I want to see the Oil do their process and make the right choice.
The only people wrapping themselves in the flag around here are the 'strongly pro-Hall' faction. I'm good either way, thanks.
You're trying to discredit me by flat-out making crap up, and are just digging yourself a deeper hole in the process.
HBomb - The Oilers "management" have fucked up in every possible way for the past 20 seasons - if you don't understand that then there really is no point in bothering with your question.
ReplyDeleteAs for Seguin(who you obviously have a hard on for), I don't want to know anything about him. My mind, whatever that is, has been made up, and if you don't like it, then tough titty.
When do we get to the point where we all just admit that we don't know the answer, and we probably won't for another 20 years?
ReplyDeleteNone of us are pro scouts, we're all uninformed, so let's just accept the fact that we all have our own opinions about both players that are probably less than accurate.
" It's not because i did something that I can't point it out."
ReplyDeleteUh huh.
Hunter: Yeah cause that makes fucking sense.
ReplyDeleteI mean it's the same people on board since 20 years ago heh?
I guess that turned out to be true with the Hawks heh?
gogliano: That's precisely it. Both these guys are damn good prospects and, given we know what we know now, I don't think the Oil can go wrong either way, given that there's not a lot to separate the two.
ReplyDeleteYeah, we might look back in ten years if we pick Hall, he turns into Wendel Clark and Seguin becomes Joe Sakic, and think "whoops, they were wrong". Likewise, Hall could turn into Ovechkin and Seguin could end up being Patrik Stefan. If it happens and the Oil end up on the wrong end of it, we'll have to remember that it was a close race at the time and that there was no consensus pick, so there's just as good a chance they were going to ground out to first as there was that they would hit an upper-deck grand slam. I'm pretty hard on the organization for getting it wrong in 2003 - here, if they "miss", I'm not going to be the least bit hard on them, because there isn't a clear choice.
Steve: Kumbaya indeed.
As for Seguin(who you obviously have a hard on for), I don't want to know anything about him. My mind, whatever that is, has been made up, and if you don't like it, then tough titty.
ReplyDeleteAnd with this, I'm openly going to practice the art otherwise known as "ignoring everything Hunter1909 writes". Accusing me of having a hard-on for Seguin (while I've pretty much shown I'm about as centrist as one can be on this debate), then admitting that you've made up your mind without even considering one of the two options, that's enough proof for me that even reading your posts is a waste of time, let alone debating the "merits" of your viewpoint.
It will not be immortal for 2 cents if he doesn't become an NHL star.
ReplyDeleteHunter: You're saying it like it's wrong to prefer Seguin.
ReplyDeleteHunter: For Christ sakes, do you READ the stuff you write?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phnBColLPRw&playnext_from=TL&videos=jWWqbkdJhKE&feature=sub
ReplyDeleteSteve Dangle interviews Tyler Seguin.
Hunter resorting to playground tactics...
ReplyDeleteHbomb:
ReplyDeleteIn your opinion. So state it as such and not as if it is absolute fact.
Fair point. That being said, there would be numerous examples of you (and just about everyone) presenting opinions as facts.
I didn't outright say it was my opinion - it was implicitly implied.
Please provide proof that Seguin isn't equally as interested in playing for a Canadian team.
We're talking about Hall, not Seguin. What we do know is that Hall has indicated since he was 16 years old of his desire to play in Canadian city.
There has been equal indication that Seguin also has room to physically grow. But let's only state one side of the story, shall we?
Of course there is room for Seguin to grow physically - it would just appears there is more so for Hall, given that he's relatively skinny guy in the upper body area.
And again - those were concerns Bob McKenzie raised.
Just go ahead and try and prove this statement. You can't.
It's pretty clear. Hall has a documented track record that is longer than Seguin's. That's not to say Seguin won't likely be a great player - however, given that Hall has been putting up numbers since 15/16, and his speed is world class (one of the most important traits for transition to the NHL), I think there is strong evidence Hall is less of a gamble.
Not one agency has come out and said there's a wide gap between Seguin and Hall.
But these agencies do acknowledge there is a gap (wide or not), which is why Hall is consistently ranked #1 is most of these rankings.
This is indicative of the projected BPA being Taylor Hall.
That's all there is to it.
Ottawa picked Daigle at #1 and Chris Pronger went #2. Dipietro over Heatley and Gaborik is another example. That door swings both ways.
Daigle had the tools, but character issues. Dipietro was a poor choice and widely criticized at that time.
Trading down has not worked well for Florida X 2.
And that's once again your opinion, and not gospel fact. Only time will prove which one is a franchise player.
Did you miss the part of, "Nothing convinces me," - indicative of opinion?
As for the second part, one could use the same mantra when comparing Hall and Fowler. The real key for the Oilers is finding who the better player will be - and given numerous scouting agencies have indicated/ranked Hall at #1, it would appear selecting Seguin would be going against the grain.
It's not the message, it's the delivery. The absolute disrespect shown by some.
I have voiced my opinion, and carried on. I have not attacked any Seguin boosters. The only person who is showing disrespect is yourself with references to being ''arrogant," "prick," and "asshole,"
Schitzo:
ReplyDeleteLess of a gamble to produce at the NHL level? Probably. But which one is more likely to be in a wheelchair by age 25?
Hall has yet to miss a single game to injury in his OHL career. He has also yet to develop physically. Sure, there's always a possibility - but it's very hard to project things like this without any history associated with it.
Anonymouse:
The fact that Seguin has indicated he enjoys high school in the States because it puts him away from the spotlight should raise a red flag, even if slightly. Could this same individual handle the pressure of being drafted 1st overall, continuously being compared to Hall from rabid hockey fans in the Heartland of Hockey?
Keeping in mind that Hall has been in the Spotlight for 3 years now, and has performed well under pressure or when facing adversity.a
LittleFury:
PJO, it's odd that you'd keep using Legwand as a comp, since his production actually dropped in his second year in junior from his rookie season. Oops.
Legwand was drafted 2nd overall in 1998 after posting similar stats to those of Seguins (54 goals, 105 points in 59 games). His stats dropped in the subsequent year.
Point being, like Legwand, Seguin does not have an established track record like Hall does (Hall's 3 seasons of high level performance vs Seguin's 1) - indicative of Seguin being a bigger gamble at this point.
Good times LT.
ReplyDeleteYour blog underlines the real beauty of this draft. Two world class prospects - lots of legitimate debate. Some rational and interesting arguments - some ridiculous and a little amusing.
I wouldn't want it any other way.
All the possibilities...
is still think the oiler should draft hall over Seguin, combine results be damned.
ReplyDeleteobviously if oilers get a medical review of Hall's 'injuries' and they present the probability of being chronic .. then sure, rethink things.
but Hall's performance in the memorial cup final while "injured" leads me to assume that the injuries seem like typical post-season recuperation type stuff. Seguin may have had similar problems but we will never know, since he much more time to heal and train for the combine.
by all means, get a doctor in a room with Hall and figure out what this is, but i don't think we should be worried about it based on available info.
i can sort of understand where Hunter is coming from in terms of not being at all interested in learning about Seguin, because all he needs to know is that Hall is a proven winner with a longer track record and nothing he could possibly learn about Seguin would trump those facts.
those also happen to be the two things i value most in terms of evaluating the players.
i can also see how being told to "go to school on Seguin" when nothing could possibly trump winner+sample size in terms of his personal evaluation values would be pretty annoying. of course, Hunter's being a total jerk about parading hi certainty and diminishing those who don't agree with him. but whatever.
I think this can only be viewed as a positive.
ReplyDeletePJO: I wasn't aware he's never missed a game. Given his style of play I find it really surprising, but it certainly helps show that he's not a disaster waiting to happen. Maybe he really is just a hockey-playing robot sent from the future.
ReplyDeleteLegwand was drafted 2nd overall in 1998 after posting similar stats to those of Seguins (54 goals, 105 points in 59 games). His stats dropped in the subsequent year.
ReplyDeleteLegwand played one year in the O before he was drafted. Seguin has played two. Legwand's point totals dropped from year one to year two, Seguin's increased.
Point being, like Legwand, Seguin does not have an established track record like Hall does (Hall's 3 seasons of high level performance vs Seguin's 1) - indicative of Seguin being a bigger gamble at this point.
I think the only reason you're making the comp is that both are centres who played for Plymouth.
That's like saying the Ducks should have picked Gilbert Brulé instead of Bobby Ryan because Brulé played at top level 2 years instead of 1.
ReplyDeleteLegwand played one year in the O before he was drafted. Seguin has played two. Legwand's point totals dropped from year one to year two, Seguin's increased.
ReplyDeleteIt would be reasonable to assume that if Legwand played in the OHL, his numbers would show an in crease
The bigger point is that both the players (Seguin and Legwand) showed a considerable, unprojected jump in rankings in their draft year.
3 years vs. 1 year of high level performance is basically the thesis of my argument.
I think the only reason you're making the comp is that both are centres who played for Plymouth.
I didn't even know about that until now. The real reason of bringing up Legwand was as discussed above.
There was similar debate back in 1999 - Lecavalier vs. Legwand. Tampa took the more proven guy, and wound up winning a Stanley Cup as a result.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHave to admit this debate over many of the same issues is old...but the arguments from PJO, Hunter, HBomb and fpb make for a great read on a Sunday night.
ReplyDeleteEither way you do have 2 great talents and THERE ARE RISKS associated with each player.
I do happen to think that Hall going into Boston's system may have less risk for them because they are a more complete team that we are right now.
Two years from now - who knows?
I'll be ready for this to end in less than 4 weeks when the draft finally gets here. Am also still willing to trust MBS's POV over everyone else's here. He's got a track record. No one else here does when it comes to making draft picks.
PJO: No there was not. Jacques Demers talked about that pick some while ago on RDS (TB GM at the time)
ReplyDeleteOne of theyr scouts suggested they'd take Legwand, they all looked at him like he was a fool, and subsequently i think he got fired the year after.
i think that people stating that hall is a "two time memorial cup MVP" as the reason to draft him... well, it's maybe not the best indicator.
ReplyDeletesimilar things are often stated about would be players in the NCAA basketball championships who win MVP but can't translate their game to the next level. guys who dominate amateur golfers that can't break into the pro ranks. while skill is obvious in all occassions, the translation to the pro rank is a very different thing.
for me, basketball is the best example of scouts drafting for "future" potential. you see a frame and base skill set you like and then project the future onto it. jordan (avg 30pts/gm draft year), for instance, went third in his draft year because scouts projected better basketball frames and growth potential in olajuwon (1st, 20pt/gm) and sam bowie (2nd, 10pts/gm).
i like the basketball draft immensely because there's so much more future projection and you hear things like "best athlete in the draft" and "projects to be a solid #4, even though he plays the 3 position in college.
i'm not saying that success in minor pro and amateur ranks aren't good indicators, but being the best boy at the table is different than being the best man at the next level. i don't think that looking at media and marketing awards are necessarily the best (or even a decent) indicator moving forward.
here's a list of memorial cup MVPs. in my eye, hall is getting a pretty serious bump by a lot of people because of what he's done in a small sample size (5 game tournament) even though we often criticize people on this blog for getting too excited about the WJC because it has a small sample size. are eberle's WJC's a better indicator of his future, or is his dissapointing 18 year old season. i think the truth is somewhere in the middle and think we all need to adjust our expectations into a grey area a little more.
2006 Alexander Radulov Quebec
2005 Corey Perry London
2004 Kelly Guard Kelowna
2003 Derek Roy Kitchener
2002 Danny Groulx Victoriaville
2001 Kyle Wanvig Red Deer
2000 Brad Richards Rimouski
1999 Nick Boynton Ottawa
1998 Chris Madden Guelph
1997 Christian Dube Hull
1996 Cameron Mann Peterborough
1995 Shane Doan Kamloops
1994 Darcy Tucker Kamloops
1993 Ralph Intranuovo Sault Ste. Marie
1992 Scott Niedermayer Kamloops
1991 Pat Falloon Spokane
1990 Iain Fraser Ottawa
1989 Dan Lambert Swift Current
1988 Rob DiMaio Medicine Hat
1987 Wayne McBean Medicine Hat
1986 Steve Chiasson Guelph
1985 Dan Hodgson Prince Albert
1984 Adam Creighton Ottawa
1983 Alfie Turcotte Portland
1982 Sean McKenna Sherbrooke
1981 Dale Hawerchuk Cornwall
1980 Dave Ezard Cornwall
Tyler Seguin had 58 points in his last 44 games of his first year, and followed it up with 16 points in 11 playoff games.
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure he's not a one year wonder.
I have voiced my opinion, and carried on. I have not attacked any Seguin boosters. The only person who is showing disrespect is yourself with references to being ''arrogant," "prick," and "asshole,"
ReplyDeleteEven though I am not what I'd define as a Seguin "supporter", I'm going to call BS regarding me being the only one displaying disrespectful behavior. Last weekend - I called out the "Hall is clearly the better choice" viewpoint as asinine, and you responded with a post that was nothing but a childish string of insults, which Lowetide deleted before I had a chance for rebuttal. Consider this my delayed response to that rubbish. You're about the last individual I'd take internet etiquette advice from.
I stand by my comments, as they don't just apply to this thread, but to the way a few certain pro-Hall individuals have carried themselves the last few weeks - with arrogance and disregard for the merits of the opposing viewpoint.
Thank goodness these individuals are in the vast minority when it comes to the contributors here. The best analogy I can think about this overall pick and how to approach it as a fan is one of a family having a baby - you honestly don't care if it's a boy or a girl, you're going to be happy either way when it does arrive. Or at least you should be.
from that video at lunatic fringe, i definitely see some of Dougie Weight in the boy. how he pulls up just inside the blue line and runs the side wall.
ReplyDeletei would be really happy if he turned into doug weight +
Ok, I think the Hall/Seguin debate is unbalanced so let me through this out there.
ReplyDeleteAnyone with an IQ above 75 knows without a doubt that Seguin is a vastly superior draft choice. Hall scores lots of easy goals in Junior, but he will be a disaster in the NHL (ala Bonseigneur).
Seguin is smarter, better, much better, way much better more awesomer - FACT. There is just no denying it and people who say otherwise are corn flake eaters and have no right to even think about expressing an opinion. If Kevin Blow's stooge Fumbillini picks Hall, I will scratch my eyes out with a course grade of sandpaper (like 80 grit) and burn my Oilers jersey while pissing on it.
There, that kind of balances out the debate a bit, doesn't it!
Jfry - Weight was a heck of a playmaker, but he never had the finish that Seguin displayed in that video OR Hall displayed in the Memorial Cup (I don`t remember an Oiler player that would have scored the goal he did in the championship game - it was a pure "snipe").
ReplyDeleteRest assured, no matter which way this goes, Hall or Seguin is going to be the best Oiler prospect in the system since...Kurri? Is that a stretch?
bookie: Hilarious. That's all I've got to say.
ReplyDelete@hbomb, i agree completely. i was mostly mentioning that stylistically, there's moments where i see a little weight in the kid, which makes me smile.
ReplyDeleteother times there's this kid that has no resemblance to former oilers, and i like that as well.
Last weekend - I called out the "Hall is clearly the better choice" viewpoint as asinine, and you responded with a post that was nothing but a childish string of insult.
ReplyDeleteI merely told you to get over that comment, as I already admitted it was exaggeration on my part.
If you keep bringing it up in unrelated threads, of course someone is going to call you out on it.
Carry on.
Alright, your mother and I have traded the first overall pick for a can of PREM. Maybe that will teach you.
ReplyDeleteWhy can't the cheetos and corn flake eaters just get along?
ReplyDeleteH:
I can think of a few Oilers who could bury that. Consistently? Tough call.
But guys who could rip that bar down include Guerin, Carter, Hemsky and Joffrey Zoolander...
I think the thing that is drawing everyone's ire is, the debate isn't so much about Hall or Seguin, its more about the fact that whichever player they pick, they will be the centerpiece of the style of hockey the Oilers will be playing for years to come.
ReplyDeleteIf the Oilers take Hall, it will be like the Capitals, jump on the grenade, balls to the wall type hockey, exciting hockey to watch.
If the Oilers take Seguin, the team will have more of a Red Wings feel, cerebral assassin, pick you apart type hockey.
Let the chips fall where they may.
Google failed me... what the heck is PREM?
ReplyDeleteI'd like the Oilers to draft someone no one expected, and totally out of place.
ReplyDeleteJust to set the whole place on fire.
DangerMan:
ReplyDeleteEven going into next year, it will have a huge impact on the makeup of the club.
If they take Hall, I think we could reasonably expect to see something along the lines of:
Hall - Horcoff - Hemsky
MPS - Gagner - Brule
Penner - X - Eberle
With "X" likely being the player they get for Cogliano.
If they go with Seguin... first it's a matter of if he's sent back to junior or not, and then it's a matter of how you pair up the wingers around Seguin, Horcoff and Gagner.... which gets a lot harder, because Hemsky isn't a great fit to be along side Seguin or Gagner, so he's likely with Horcoff.. so you keep HorPenSky, but is there really a good combination of Brule, MPS, Eberle and... ???? for Seguin and Gagner?
It would be a really, really, unbalanced roster... again.
http://www.virgeweb.com/rage2/spam/spam19.jpg
ReplyDeleteOh... spam.
ReplyDeleteI wonder what has more pig snout... that, or hot dogs?
PDO: I agree, the roster will unbalanced for awhile regardless of who they pick. But you have to think that with the 8 names you have mentioned above that at least 3 of them will be gone anyway, filled by players more suitable for the roles needed, pushing Hall/Seguin further up the pecking order, til they eventually become the face of the franchise. Personally, I don't think it will take all that long for then to becone the cneterpiece of the hockey team and the identity of the franchise.
ReplyDeletePrem...*shudder*
ReplyDeleteWhat is Prem?? ......... a post apocalyptic foodstuff....canned spiced ham that is truly an acquired taste
ReplyDeleteLove the debate.
PJO....... seriously you absolutely have no need to post again on our first overall draft pick: we know EXACTLY what you would say.....anyone who does not select Hall is bleep, bleep, bleep....we get it Seriously
I am not a pro scout, I have no idea who will be better and doubt anyone posting here is a pro scout but I do believe that if Hall does not change his style of play 235 lb D men will PUNISH him.
Best example is Wendell Clark absolutely ferocious player. One of the greatest pound for pound fighters (and hitters) in NHL history...... but Wendell was 195 lbs. He had zero difficulty in stepping up to hit or fight anyone......alas the last season he played 80 games was his 4th season. That is absolutely tragic
That is an absolutely legitimate concern....... which can be alleviated if Hall adjusts how he plays...... Wendell did not and played a shitload of 45-60 game seasons
Course if I had to pick someone to be the toughest sub 200 pound fighter.....he would be my first 3 choices
PJO....... you can wait till June 26th to tell us your views on how great/bad Oilers did at draft
I think that there should be a law that certain food MUST end in a question mark (both the generic name and the trade names). I propose the following .
ReplyDeleteCanned Meat?
SPAM?
PREM?
Weiners?
Pâté?
PDO: I don't think Horcoff's going to play with Hemsky again if we draft Seguin and he makes the club.
ReplyDeleteOr at least not as a ''Planned'' thing. Gagner did well with Hemsky and Penner last year, wouldn't surprise me to see him or Seguin with the big boys.
I love the boy/girl analogy.
ReplyDeleteSo MacGregor is God now?
I think what all the PREM haters have to realize is, is that PREM is actually #1. Granted, I don't know anything about Spam, but I don't want to know about it - PREM is the only canned ham-like product worth eating.
ReplyDelete(now if only prem had been featured in a monty python sketch...)
And back to the topic, if the analogy about play-style comes into effect, and Seguin does turn his team into a Detroit-like one, while I do appreciate the WSH balls to the wall style, I find the Red Wings to be a little more like how Lemaire was self-described recently; if you watch and pay attention you'll always come away with learning something about how the game is played.
PDO: Next year they will still be the Edmonton Oilers. Of course there will be an unbalanced lineup.
ReplyDeleteHemsky has to play with Seguin's wrist shot and apparent ability to jump into holes in the defense.
Horcoff should center a strong tough opp line with strong fore and back checkers (they are under rocks somewhere).
This team will still pull a lot of bad goals out of their net, but they will be much more fun to watch.
Hemsky has to play with Seguin's wrist shot and apparent ability to jump into holes in the defense.
FPB:
ReplyDeleteYou may well be right, but I'm not a fan of Gagner and Hemsky on the same line (and outside of one fantastic game against CBJ... there wasn't much).
They both want to carry the puck through the neutral zone and are a little lost when they aren't... Seguin appears to be pretty similar.
They would love PREM in Samoa
ReplyDeleteHenry:
ReplyDeletePenner - Horcoff - Armstrong
MPS - Seguin - Hemsky (KILL THE SOFT)
XXX - Gagner - Eberle
That third line would need to be a lot better, I think.
Of course, that lineup looks like it puts Cogliano and Brule on the block... could probably bring in a decent forward...
PDO: That looks sort of nice. Armstrong is a dick and would fit in nicely.
ReplyDeleteI like Cogliano, but probably won't miss him. I want to keep Brule. He makes quite a bit out of his minutes, good shot, great wheels, no fear. Little more coaching on positioning and he is a good, good player.
I'd slot Penner with Gagner or Seguin.
There can't be three rookies on the roster at once. Eberle and/or MPS has to be in Okla until the injuries come on the big club.
This will be a fast fun bunch of losers for a while.
Interesting that this blog seems to favor Seguin now. I`m certain Hall is the better pick, and the Oilers pick.
ReplyDeleteWhoever we draft though, has to deal with a massive spotlight that has huge fan expectations attached. What about Seguins character leads anyone to believe he`s better suited for this role than Hall is...
It`s an easy choice for the Oilers at the draft table... The only question is whether or not we can get enough value back to trade down. It would take a lot in my mind to even be tempted to deal down.
Halls an Oiler, book it.
PDO/Henry:
ReplyDeleteAndrew Ladd would do nicely on that 3rd line. Who plays where game in, game out doesn't matter so much - it's a pretty interchangeable group of 9 (with Brule kicking around until they are all in Edmonton).
Example: Ladd-Horcoff-Armstrong could be considered a high quality veteran (expensive) shutdown line when required.
Bend:
ReplyDeleteAndrew Ladd is a nice idea....
Souray + Cogs for Campbell + Ladd.
Presumably Chicago is adding because Campbell is signed at a big amount forever.... lets say they add their 1st.
Is that a trade that makes sense?
Oilers will have to do something with Brule (at C he'd be up against Horc/Gagner/Seguin, and at RW he'd be up against Hemsky/Eberle/"Armstrong"), but:
Penner - Horcoff - Armstrong
MPS - Seguin - Hemsky
Ladd - Gagner - Eberle
Whitney - Gilbert
Smid - Campbell
Is that a top 9 and a top 4 that can become a core that can compete for the cup? Is that enough compensation for the Campbell contract?
Heck, maybe the Oilers can convince Boston to trade "the condition to not draft Taylor Hall" for the 32nd OV, and the Oilers are looking at 4 picks in the top 32 (admittedly with the last 3 being 30, 31 and 32)...
I might as well make my final comment on this debate:
ReplyDeleteSeguin looks intelligent. Intelligent enough to want Riley Nash type "options" down the road, which probably do not include playing in Edmonton.
Hall on the other hand probably reads at grade 6 level. Toss him a new IPod and he's happy as can be.
Old school!
PS: Doug Weight!? If all Seguin can be is Doug Weight then I'll take 4 great seasons of Taylor Hall.
Ignoring gap tooth, Doug Weight is the best player the Oilers have had since they dealt Messier.
ReplyDeleteDoug Weight and Mark Messier shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence.
ReplyDeleteNo one was saying Doug Weight was in the same category as Messier, PDO simply stated the fact that Weight was the best player the Oilers had since Messier was traded for a long time.
ReplyDeleteSaying that you shouldn't mention Weight in the same sentence as Messier is a disservice to Weight. What does it matter that he wasn't as good as Messier, he was a damn fine player for a damn long time. Hemsky ain't Anderson but he's still a heck of a player as well etc.
That's like talking down to your wife or girlfriend because she isn't built like Jessica Alba. That's just a huge pet peeve of mine.
JB: I am in favor of drafting Taylor Hall, suspect this blog is divided equally on the subject.
ReplyDeleteI mentioned this before, but I really do feel who they draft may be hanging on what they get in trades before the draft. Chicago has serious cap issues, and the Oil may be able to facilitate something. Ladd is a nice addition, but if I'm the Oilers I look to pluck Sharp for our #1centre position, then add Hall at the draft.
ReplyDeleteHall-Sharp-Hemsky
Penner-Horcoff-Eberle
MPS-Gagner-Brule
That's a solid top 9 and if we addd a few solid dmen and either Bulin is happy or we jettison him and replace him with a solid vet then we may surprise some people (like Colorado did last year).
wow! are we ever divided about this. seems we're all very concerned about making the WRONG choice. my thinking is just choose one and see what happens. it won't be our fault if Seguin or Hall don't turn out, both are rated pretty equal, and both could turn out to be duds as well. (Schremp anyone?)
ReplyDeletePDO - The Hawks would not be able to take on Souray's salary. Also, Campbell's value to them is now very obvious since they were awful on the breakout when he was hurt.
ReplyDeleteMaybe if we deal Souray to clear cap room, we could deal them Cogliano and another lower-salaried player for one of the guys they need to deal to get under the cap.
Bolland would be preferable, but I don't see them dealing him after the playoffs he's had.
PJO said...
ReplyDeleteHall has yet to miss a single game to injury in his OHL career. He has also yet to develop physically.
How in Gord's name can you or anyone else for that matter, know this to be true? We're guessing on growth spurts now? Give me a break. As for his musculature, it, like Seguin's, is already fairly well-developed (for their ages).
ReplyDeleteI merely told you to get over that comment, as I already admitted it was exaggeration on my part.
If you keep bringing it up in unrelated threads, of course someone is going to call you out on it.
Carry on.
Yeah, you must think I can't read. That was a five or six paragraph string of childish insults.
Keep on believing you're without blame. I can see through it, and I'm pretty sure others can too.
PJO, Seguin spent his time off after elimination from the OHL playoffs in the gym. He stated he was going to use the time off to train hard for the combine.
ReplyDeleteHow you can conclude that Seguin has developed more physically than Hall, and has less growth to come is ludicrous. If anything his impressive results at the combine are a result of him putting in the dedication in his off time to train hard.
PJO, I rather used to like your comments, but the veiled insults directed at anyone who doesn't agree with you, the MacGuire-esque hard on you have for Hall, and the amount of dubious 'evidence' you keep 'producing' to back up your opinion is just too much. You're fast approaching crazed HFBoards fanboy territory, whether you know it or not. At this point you really should take a step back and calm down and re-evaluate what you've been posting here for the last several months and get a grip.
I'd like to be able to read your comments again, instead of having to ignore them and skip on to the next post.