I've been reading a lot recently about Sam Gagner and the 2010 draft. The general idea is summed up here by Salim Valji: "Also, if the Oilers select Seguin, it will be a sign that they feel Sam Gagner is, at best, a No. 2 center. At just 20 years old and with over 200 NHL games already, there is time for Gagner to develop into a solid No. 1 center. Playing with Hall, who is considered NHL-ready, could elevate Gagner's game siginficantly."I understand the point Mr. Valji is making, but would disagree with some of it. I completely concur that Gagner has time to grow into the C job, but would also suggest that a 2line difference maker has exceptional value. Steve Yzerman (behind Fedorov), Peter Forsberg (behind Sakic) and Evgeni Malkin (behind Crosby) were all key elements on championship teams.
There's also a transition period to consider. In my season ending look at Gagner, I suggested the following about drafting Seguin:
- What about Seguin? I think the OHL star could be a perfect addition for the Oilers long term. Gagner is a little older but can lend some guidance and since both are centers they can push each other for ice time. Draft pedigree suggests that Seguin will be the better player, but 89 should be superior for the first season (and possibly beyond) they play together.
There are some negatives with taking Seguin (they are similar players) but one of the real positives about a Seguin/Gagner combination is that they display a more complete set of skills. Gagner has improved without the puck and shows both an ability to approach defense from a cerebral point of view and a desire to learn that side of the game. Seguin (from the scouting reports) appears to have the same resume.
The Oilers were deep down the middle spring 2006; they were also deep down the middle from the time Messier moved to C until they traded him. A Seguin-Gagner combination at the top of the C depth chart gives the new cluster an excellent chance to have exceptional centermen.
Talented, responsible two-way centres - no way the Oil need more than one of those. (bookie thingamajub)
ReplyDeleteif we take Seguin, then we have him, Gagner and Horcoff down the middle, so strength at center, if we take Hall, we have someone who can play with Gagner, but we lose a potential #1 center. i see it as a win/win myself, and i'll be interested to see who the Oilers take at #1 and WHY they deceided to take one over the other.
ReplyDeleteAgreed LT. Hope OTC gives Seguin gravy minutes. Have two PVP lines and have Seguin with some solid players and soft minutes. OTC likes to roll 4 lines, but I'd sooner see some sheltering.
ReplyDeleteMPS-Gagner-Hemsky
Penner--Horcoff-Brule
Ladd type-Seguin-Eberle
Jones-Potulny-Stortini
Pou-Stone
Agreed - there are a lot of options about how the Oilers decide to play procurement this year. Personally, I like the swing for the fences approach of finding a way to select a tandem or either Hall/Johansen or Seguin/Niederreiter personally. Either of those pairings would go a long way to providing very high potential players at forward.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, I appreciate the value of having a lot of bullets too. If the question is whether it's better to take Hall or trade down for Seguin and more picks... I'd be in favour of having more high-level prospects just in case someone gets Cherepanoved. Crazy $#!+ does happen.
A question for you all:
ReplyDeleteCan Hall play centre? If so, what kind of centre could he be? I know he's mostly played wing, but I've read he has played some centre in the past.
Also, at 17/18 years old is should be possible to change the position of most athletes. Most athletes at that age have many things to learn in the position they currently "claim". It shouldn't be too daunting a task to development an athlete in a new position (especially a wing to centre or centre to wing switch).
Also, if the Oilers select Seguin, it will be a sign that they feel Sam Gagner is, at best, a No. 2 center.
ReplyDeleteSilly statement. The Oilers should draft the best player available, reguardless of team needs. If it was a matter of team needs, they would draft the best defenceman available.
Just curious..who centered Messier before he switched from wing? Was it Messier, Anderson, and who was center?
ReplyDeleteI'd also like to think that if the Oilers draft Seguin, they'd be able to dump Horcoff within a year.
ReplyDeleteBut Horcoff would need to play much better next season for a team to want that contract.
DBO,
ReplyDeleteI have been thinking that Ladd is exactly the player we should be targeting from Chicago. Big, young winger with 15-20 goal upside. He could be to the current Oil what Moreau was to this team when he first got here. He would also be exactly the type of piece that Chicago can't afford to pay - an exceptional 3rd line player.
Trottier, Goring, Sutter
ReplyDeleteGretzky, Messier
Niewendyk, Gilmour
Lemieux, Francis
Fedorov, Yzerman, Larionov
Sakic, Forsberg
Modano Nieuwendyk
Lecavalier, Richards
Brind'Amour, Staal, Weight, Cullen
Yzerman, Zetterberg, Datsiuk
Zetterberg Datsiuk
Crosby, Malkin
Toews, Sharp, Bolland
Sense a pattern anyone?
The team with the best 2nd line centre in the league is probably a Stanley Cup contender. Having the best 2nd centre is probably more critical than having the best first line centre.
Give me a good first line centre, and a great second line centre, and I'm a happy camper.
You have to draft BPA. I agree with LT that strength down the middle is the way to go but only if Seguin > Hall. In MBS we trust.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of best defensemen available (and my info may not be gospel) but Florida is high on Gudbranson.
It is a dumb idea to get rid of Horcoff? He is amongst the best matchup centres in the league. Horcoff has his contract. He no longer has to worry about points, only about winning. He can handle the toughs, leaving Gagner or Sequin's line with a huge mismatch in the Oilers favor.
ReplyDeleteJust don't play him with players (Jacques, O'Sullivan) who are clueless defensively. Give him two competent checking wingers, and you have an elite shutdown line.
But Horcoff would need to play much better next season for a team to want that contract.
ReplyDeleteOf course, if Horcoff plays much better next year, the Oilers are likely the team that wants that contract.
He's almost certainly here either way, so lets hope it's because he returns to being highly valuable.
Jake: Matti Hagman centred Anderson and Messier at the outset. Then Kenny Linsemen came to form the fastest line in hockey. Messier moved over soon after Linsemen fell from favour.
ReplyDeleteBack then Sather really had some nice ideas, though they couldn't draft anyone once the team started winning.
"Can Hall play centre? If so, what kind of centre could he be? I know he's mostly played wing, but I've read he has played some centre in the past."
ReplyDeleteone of the odder narratives that is generating steam right now is that this is a straight up decision between a playmaking center and a one-shot scorer.
the funny thing is that in the past year Seguin had more regular season goals, and Hall had more regular season assists.
i haven't seen enough video to tell if Hall would make an amazing playmaking center, but i think we can tell from his stats that he's a quality passer [benefitting from teammates who can score].
we can also tell that Seguin is not a pure playmaking center. the guy has a shot and has a scoring touch.
one thing i think about is how well Hall might work as a center to a play-making wing like Hemsky - but then Seguin would make a great shooting center for Hemsky too.
the Hall-could-be-a-centre argument is really an argument for Seguin.
ReplyDeleteDon't try to make Hall something he isn't. He is a left wing and a good one. What would happen to Hall's offense if he had to deal with the extra defensive responsibilites of the centre position?
If Hall is the BPA, you draft him, even if he is a winger. You don't then try to convert him into a centre. He is what he is. Make a decision on that basis.
"Of course, if Horcoff plays much better next year, the Oilers are likely the team that wants that contract."
ReplyDeleteif he starts performing at a high level, i could see edmonton trading him for someone younger who fits the rebuild better. or maybe trading him to a team looking to make a cup run, for first round picks.
godot: Agreed on Horcoff. We`re not moving him people so stop hoping. He is a great 2nd line two way centre. Forget the cap hit and focus on what he brings to the table. Seguin, Gagner and Horcoff for the next 4 years is a great thing to build on.
ReplyDeletestriatic: thanks for your comments
ReplyDeletegodot10: I hear what you're saying but I disagree with your statement, "You don't then try to convert him into a centre. He is what he is."
I think a large failing of athlete development in professional hockey is their labelling of teenagers who have large gaps in their development. The teams who develop well don't see a positional player but an athlete with a skill-set, strengths and weaknesses.
At 17/18 a player is far from a finished product and their peak is years away. Non-traditional perspectives will help to creatively approach developmental paths for teams.
if he starts performing at a high level, i could see edmonton trading him for someone younger who fits the rebuild better. or maybe trading him to a team looking to make a cup run, for first round picks.
ReplyDeleteYeah, that certainly could happen, but I think it's a bad idea. Every team needs a few veteran, experienced players who can actually play defense, no matter how talented their crop of young players: look at Madden in Chicago, and Hossa for that matter.
Bad Horcoff is virtually untradeable, for obvious reasons; Good Horcoff is also virtually untradeable, as his skillset is pretty unique on the Oilers. I just hope for a return performance from Good Horcoff (maybe NHL-calibre wingers might help).
btw, i'm not trying to suggest that Horcoff will be traded.
ReplyDeletei doubt that at this point he will ever perform to the level of his contract. he still offers a lot to the team and makes sense to keep. especially to provide some defensive cover while the prospects develop.
but if he ever does play up to the level of his elite contract and the oilers can move him? yeah, move him. he doesn't fit in very well once the prospects have developed. especially if you have Seguin waiting in the wings.
waiting in the wings .. at centre? metaphor fail.
Penner - Seguin - Hemsky
ReplyDeleteMPS/Eberle - Gagner - Brule
Pouliot - Horcoff - Armstrong
Stone/Jones/Terrifying Enforcer - Potulny - Zach
MPS or Eberle are the first call up from OKC when someone goes down with injury.
This team could battle for eighth...in the Eastern Conference.
Striatic: Given the Oilers' tendency to start every recent season with a bizarrely imbalanced roster, it's conceivable that they might draft Seguin, then sign/trade for several mediocre centers this summer, overloading in the middle and forcing Seguin to wing. Thus making your metaphor a success.
ReplyDeleteOf course Hall could be switched to center (see; Messier, Mark), players adjust to new positions as they develop all the time (see; Byfuglien, Dustin). There is a risk in screwing up the kid by never letting him get comfortable, but often it's worth the risk.
ReplyDeletePosition is not likely to be the determining factor in this decision, but talent and upside should be.
//I hear what you're saying but I disagree with your statement, "You don't then try to convert him into a centre. He is what he is."//
ReplyDeleteThe Oilers have no place to develop Hall as a centre.
They can't send him to the AHL to learn to play centre. Even if they sent him to junior, Boughner would probably play him at wing again.
The NHL is no place to learn how to play centre. If you want to ruin Hall, that is precisely how to ruin a sure thing.
Hall is a LW. If he is the best player available. Take him. If Seguin is, take him.
I'm back to being happy with either. Leaning Seguin early, but saw hall good in the Memorial Cup, and began leaning that way, but the Memorial Cup effect is wearing off, and I'm back to being relatively neutral. I'll be happy with whom Stu thinks is best.
If it's true that Hall can play center, I think he'd be a more ideal player for this team going forward than Seguin (not to turn this into another Taylor/Tyler debate).
ReplyDeleteFor one, having a LH centerman to play with Hemsky makes more sense to me than a RH center. Maybe there's little to prove my point, but IMO, Hemsky has always looked better when he's played with Horcoff than he did with either Gagner or Stoll. The top 2 LWs he's played with were both LH shots as well. Maybe it has to do with the guys he's setting up having to take everything on their backhand, I don't know, but when he did look good with a RH centerman, was on the powerplay, but powerplay is a different beast.
Having your top 2 centermen shooting different ways always gives you options no matter what side the faceoff is. I don't know if that matters much to Quinn, but MacT was a real stickler for having a specific type of shot for faceoffs.
LH/RH shooting is a big reason why I like Horcoff and Gagner as the top 2 centers for this team (and because they're our 2 best centermen). It's also a big reason why I want the Oilers to persue a proven LH center for defensive situations rather than a RH one. If we could afford to have a $5.5M defensive specialist, I'd be perfectly happy bringing in an offensive LH center (ex. Marleau), but since we can't, I'd rather we brought in a cheaper defensive one like Malhotra or Moore.
I've long been against the idea of Hall at center, and I'm generally a stickler for player positions (it drives me nuts to see players out of position in other people's proposed line combinations...and yes, I know how sad that is), but after watching him play center a couple of times, I have no doubt that he could do it, and have success there at the NHL level. He looked fantastic as a centerman the two times I watched him play there.
ReplyDeleteMessier switched to centre in a completely different era. is there a more recent comparable?
ReplyDeletethe Dustin Byfuglien conversion from D to F is interesting though. whenever i hear about it i wonder if the Oilers have anyone they could switch from F to D.
can't think of any candidates though.
though i'm curious [just for the fun of the conversation], if anyone can imagine specific oiler's Forwards on Defense.
i wonder what kind of Defenseman Ethan Moreau might make. he'd end up taking fewer offensive zone penalties at least : ]
O'Sullivan might make an OK defenseman.
ReplyDeleteI've been lurking long enough, time to join the debate! Is it reasonable to suggest the Oilers are trying to choose between Rick Nash (Hall) and Eric Staal (Seguin)? It's win-win, but championship teams are built down the middle and for all his efforts Nash has accomplished nothing with the Jackets. I think we're taking Seguin for the long term. But we all need to brace ourselves for the pain of watching Hall light up the TSN highlights in a B's uniform while Seguin may need one more season in the OHL.
ReplyDeletei'd be surprised if O'Sullivan is still here after this summer!
ReplyDeleteDug: No, but that wasn't the question.
ReplyDeleteboy oh boy, are the discussions about Seguin/Hall ever getting heated!! not just my fav vs. your fav, and wny my favorite is the better choice, it's take the best player available vs. take the best center available. too bad half of us are going to be dissapointed!
ReplyDeleteok, i'll bite, misfit....Penner! maybe he really CAN scate backwards faster than he can forwards? :-)
ReplyDeleteMatti Hagman centred Anderson and Messier at the outset. Then Kenny Linsemen came to form the fastest line in hockey. Messier moved over soon after Linsemen fell from favour.
ReplyDeleteThis matches with my memory of things. The Messier-Linseman-Anderson line was lightning in a 200x85' bottle, but they never really clicked like we hoped. The move of Messier into the middle allowed the addition of Willy Lindstrom on the wing, and he was a much better fit. It also gave Oilers extremely impressive depth at centre with Gretzky-Messier-Linseman-McClelland.
However, Messier and Anderson weren't always joined at the hip. In the '83 playoffs for example, Anderson played the port side with Gretzky and Kurri, while Messier scored 15 goals playing with Linseman and Lindstrom. The highly useful Hockey Summary Project bears that out with beauty summaries like this one. Not often you see a team get 8 goals with all of them being scored by left wingers!
Crazy $#!+ does happen.
Hey, Jordan spells $#!+ the same way I do¡
The problem with trying to figure out the Oilers is the reality that they're run by nepotistism - Laraque getting offered a contract by his gym buddy, Horcoff going golfing with his buddy the owner, etc.
ReplyDeleteCombined with the unpalatable thought that they also love, and I mean love to draft by perceived need, and also with a propensity for leaving gaping holes in the roster, and you are left hoping beyond hope that they will for once draft the BPA, as of June 2010.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteHunter: Hopefully by this point, the Oilers have reached the stunning perception that they need some good hockey players.
ReplyDeleteBruce:
ReplyDeleteQuinn aside, something tells me that the management believe the players currently on hand are ready to do the job, after a few deft touches to the roster.
but championship teams are built down the middle
ReplyDeletePeople do not get how good a season lander had in a third center role in the SEL.
18 year old seasons the last 20 years in SEL.
09-10:
MPS 49GM 29P .60P/GM
Josefson 43GM 20P .46P/GM
Lander 49GM 16P .33P/GM
05-06
Backstrom 46GM 26P .56P/GM
Kopitar 47GM 20P .42P/GM
03-04:
L. Erikson 40GM 13P .29P/GM
02-03:
A. Steen 45GM 15P .33P/GM
97-98:
D. sedin 45GM 13PT .29p/GM
93-94:
N. sundstrom 37GM 19pt .51p/gm
90-91:
M. Naslund 32gm 19p .59p/gm
M. reneberg 32gm 17p .57p/gm
P. forsburg 24gm 17p .70p/gm
89-90:
M. sundin 39GM 18pts .46p/gm
Plus he was top 10 in G @ WJC
The kid has the potential to be at least our #2 center.
Plus van de velde coming in a 3/4 role.
two years from now I go to sleep pretty easy with
Horcoff
Gagner
Lander
V. Velde
Down the middle.
Hall could move to center eventually. It has been done before. Messier was a left wing until he was switched to center during the 84 playoffs where Messier earned the Conn Smythe Trophy.
ReplyDeleteHall even looks a bit like a young Moose.
What if Hall plays with lesser linemates. Does he score more goals or do his totals go down with no one to pass to ?
ReplyDeleteI don't know if Hall can move to C at the NHL level, but if he could, a C with the dogged determination to enter every possible battle for loose pucks has its appeal.
ReplyDelete"Can Hall play centre? If so, what kind of centre could he be? I know he's mostly played wing, but I've read he has played some centre in the past."
ReplyDeleteA friend of mine is a big-time spitfire fan. For what it's worth, he can't get the "choose Seguin cause he's a centre logic", insists Hall is a perfectly capable centre from when he got used there during games in the regular season. Strategically he may makes sense at wing for the spitfires, but that doesn't mean he can't play centre effectively (without under-utilizing him)
As 18 year olds, and this is there 18 year old season, Seguin and Hall were tearing it up at 1.85P/gm in the OHL. While sam gagner was 2.22p/gm as a 17 year old.
ReplyDeleteDoes Seguin start at center before Horcoff, Gagner, he wount be a #4 like va de velde, and does he beat out one of the better scoring juniors at the worlds who had the A on a mens team at 18.
The only way I trade Horcoff is if Hanzel or Weiss is coming the other way.
ReplyDeleteOutscoring centers are very rare.
Hopefully Horcoff bounces back into form this up coming year and he's not expected to stop the vaunt with anvils on the wings.
If someone untied the piano from his stick, that might help too.
PRE-EMPTIVE response to Traktor:
I know you don't bet $$$, so come up with a bet and terms regarding Horcoff's numbers for the next year, and let's figure something out to bet on and also figure a wager.
Oilers part ways with another long time scout. The area scout who brought Chris Vande Velde to their attention, but I can't find anyone else he's boosted.
ReplyDeleteStories like the one up on Coming Down the Pipe! really exemplifies to me how messed up and classless the Oilers management is. We've seen them do it to Curtis Glencross, Jan Hejda, Marty Reasoner, Radek Dvorak etc. Players who are good soldiers but not whales, who they let swing in the wind while they do more important things instead of letting them know if they're in their plans or not.
A sort of I'll keep you dangling till I know if something better is coming along or not.
It seems like they also do this to their scouts, and if this is how Tambellini intends to continue running the Oilers and treating players and staff then I don't have much optimism for management improving while he's running the show.
Horcoff isn't going anywhere.
ReplyDeleteStick him on the checking line, and watch him make like a Selke candidate.
Put him on the powerplay, and watch him shoot the puck like a CFL offensive lineman recovering a fumble.
The only way I trade Horcoff is if Hanzel or Weiss is coming the other way.
ReplyDeleteNeither team can use Horcoff though, and that's the big sticking point. Phoenix is in cap-hell right now without an owner and can't be taking on that 5.5M contract. Florida is nowhere near competitive where Horcoff becomes a good contract for them to invest in.
But I think I found a place where he could put a team over the top, and where there's lots of Ex-Oilers for him to play with.
Los Angeles.
They've been looking for a good compliment to Kopitar for a long time now. Stoll couldn't handle 2-line minutes, nor could Handzus. Horcoff could slide into their 2-C spot and provide the balance of scoring and checking LA needs. They've got money to play with without being forced into giving up assets from their NHL team.
Would you trade Horcoff to LA for Braydon Schenn? I would.
Horcoff is an excellent defensive center, but if we have prospects coming up that can take his minutes, he could be traded to acquire a quality Dman.
ReplyDeleteneed to consider building up a talented blue line corps without sacrificing the young prospects on offense. trading a player like Horcoff could help achieve that.
of course this is all pie in the sky thinking, coz there's no way any team will take on Horcoff's contract at this point. so he's used to help cover for the rookies, which he'll do well, and we hope that some quality defensemen magically fall from the sky.
unfortunately, doritogrande, you've overvalued Horcoff. in no way shape or form are we getting Brayden Schenn in return for Horcoff.
ReplyDeletedg,
ReplyDeleteYou'd probably have to take Stoll back too (to clear some cap and roster spot) and add a prospect.
Might be worth it to get Schenn, but the Oilers get slaughtered by the vaunt again with maybe no end in sight of it for 3+ years.
Horcoff is an excellent defensive center, but if we have prospects coming up that can take his minutes, he could be traded to acquire a quality Dman.
That's the problem. Prospects and young players can't take on the tough minutes and come out ahead (except for rare birds like Hanzel)
Excellent article on tough minute NHL forwards.
"That's the problem. Prospects and young players can't take on the tough minutes and come out ahead (except for rare birds like Hanzel)"
ReplyDeletei guess if hall/seguin turns out to be a tough minutes NHL centre, and gagner keeps improving, then Horcoff slides into the role of the mythical 3rd line penalty killing, defensive face-off specialist?
i dunno. that's a big cap hit for someone playing such a role, and the oilers really need defensemen.
I'm absolutely stunned at how you are scared that we ''could get butchered'' if we traded Horcoff for a young guy.
ReplyDeleteHorcoff got butchered in the most pathetic way possible last year, he sucked in every aspect of his game, and wasn't good defensively.
GOD DAMIT. No one could have done worst, other than POS.¸
As for Positional drafting i think it's silly. You should draft BPA as if you come into an impass, BPA will probably get you a better change than the Non-BPA would be at that moment.
I often hear people talk about Seguin as a complete player as though it is a knock on Hall's game. He might not be as skilled of a playmaker, but from all things I hear, his defensive game is quite good and even better (I also loved his ability to backcheck that he demonstrated in the WJHC). He's a huge threat on the PK too.
ReplyDeleteI also do agree with the poster that was quoted in that Gagner will one day grow into his #1C potential. Many people are pushing for Seguin because they don't have faith that Gagner can handle that role. I think he can.
That said, LT, I like your thoughts on having a good 1-2 punch in Seguin and Hall, a la Forsberg/Sakic. That's something I hadn't quite considered! I still am leaning towards Hall, just based on what my eyes have seen. But I think either will be great players.
Sorry that "1-2 punch" comment should be Seguin and Gagner, not Seguin and Hall.
ReplyDeletecapgeek says that Horcoff has an NMC until 2013, so he's here until then no matter what, i think.
ReplyDeleteafter that, Hall/Seguin should be developed enough to take on his role and a trade should be seriously considered.
Uni:
ReplyDeleteThere's an awful lot whining going on round these parts about the Oilers cleaning house: KP, the training staff, now Chris McCarthy. People calling the Oilers classless and what not...gimmie a break. This is what people have been wanting for years now.
First off the source of all these stories has been people who are connected with the team on a peripheral basis. First it was Matheson and his feigned outrage at Sparky, Ken Lowe and the boys getting axed. That's just one old boy sticking up for another. Then it was Flaming and his boy KP, after which he had to issue an apology because he got the facts wrong.
This is another one of Guy Flaming's boys. What do you want to bet there's another side to the story? The fact that he refers to his dismissal as "unceremonious" should tell you where his loyalties lie. That's how scouts are let go. What are they supposed to do, actually HAVE a ceremony? Retire his sports coat to the rafters?
Reading Gare Joyce's book, I got the impression that the job of a scout is an insecure/transient one at best. I think they understand the nature of the business. I wouldn't get to up-in-arms without knowing all the facts.
What are they supposed to do, actually HAVE a ceremony? Retire his sports coat to the rafters?
ReplyDeleteFunny stuff, Moose. And I agree with you. I highly doubt C-Mac was anything close to "twisting in the wind" when the guy who brought him in got shown the door. More like packing his bags and swiping office supplies.
In 17 years as an Oiler scout, this guy's most successful picks were Brad Norton, who never played a game for the Oilers and managed 124 NHL games in total, and one third of the 05/06 craptacular three headed goalie monster. Vandevelde is probably his best pick and that was five years ago. The Oilers don't seem to have taken anyone from his area since then. Can we honestly say that the organisation is weaker without him?
ReplyDeleteThe bottom line of all of this should be that there is no sound enough reason to make this pick based on what position the guy plays. The Oilers would greatly benefit from a #1 scoring winger as they would also greatly benefit from a #1 all around center.
ReplyDeleteIt's not a matter of what they need more... or at least it shouldn't be. I think the brass have made it clear enough in all interviews I've heard and read that position has almost nothing to do with who they're going to pick. It's all about the guy who projects to be the better player.
When you're picking your franchise player you adjust the team FOR them you don't pick them because of the team you have.
We're 100% sure Seguin isn't going to college right?
ReplyDeleteDidn't he say in an interview that he'd told everyone about how that was his plan before the OHL draft?
I'm assuming those plans are long gone now with lottery pick status staring him in the face, but I'm hoping someone has actually heard him guarantee that.
Common: It's a common thing for 15 years olds to change theyr mind.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it's an issue really.
I mean that's REALLY going deep to bitch on Seguin.
Hemsky and Penner. Our best two players today are wingers.
ReplyDeleteEberle, MPS. Our best two prospects today are also wingers.
Boston has the exact same issue at centre.
Seems something should be worked out.
If the talent level is close (and it appears to be between) between Seguin and Hall, I'll take Seguin in a country mile based on character, attitude, and desire to play a 2-way game. And being a centre. I've posted this before (usually to the sound of crickets), but I could repost the cup teams of the last decade (and prior to) and you'll find that most of them had at least two high quality centres:
ReplyDeleteChicago '10: Toews, Sharp, *Bolland
Pittsburgh '09: Crosby, Malkin
Detroit '08: Datsyuk, Zetterberg
Anaheim '07: Getzlaf, McDonald
Carolina '06: Staal, Brind'Amour
Tampa '04: Richards, Lecavalier
Dallas '99: Modano, Niewendyk
Detroit (late 90s):Yzerman, Fedorov
Colorado: Sakic, Forsberg
Pittsburgh (91-92):Lemieux, Francis
Oilers...: Gretzky, Messier
The only team that's consistently won of late without 2 great centres is New Jersey - probably because they have arguably the best goalie ever, and also had Niedermayer and Stevens in the same defence corps, which is unbelievable. Talk about range of skills.
Bendelson: If we decide Hall is the BPA, I'd offer Souray and Brule to the Bruins for Bergeron and see if they bite.
ReplyDeletePeter:
ReplyDeleteThe 2000 Devils had Arnott, Gomez, Holik and Madden.
The 2003 Devils had Gomez, Nieuwendyk and Madden.
They didn't have an "elite" guy either time around, but having solid depth both times sure didn't hurt either.
Depth and quality at center seems to be a common thread among champions.
Common: Seguin can't go to NCAA college anymore because he played in the OHL. If he went to a CIS school at this stage I'd eat my jeans.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteMaybe he'll get offers from Europe like Tavares did and go for it. Wouldn't that be something.
ReplyDeleteBTW I said what I said about how position shouldn't matter and then did a little bit of research.
ReplyDeleteIn the history of the current incarnation of the NHL draft only two wingers have been drafted first overall AND gone on to win a Stanley Cup.
-Rejean Houle and Joe Murphy
Not exactly franchise players on those teams either.
Before you go and mention Guy Lafleur to me I have to point out that Lafleur was drafted as a centerman. He played down the middle in junior before getting moved to the wing in 1974 after initially struggling in the NHL to meet expectations.
Pivots who were drafted first overall and went on to win a cup?
-Sidney Crosby
-Vincent Lecavalier
-Mike Modano
-Mario Lemieux
-Bobny Smith
Plus Eric Lindros took a team to the finals but didn't win. Eric Staal was drafted 2nd overall and took a team to the Cup, but I was only talking about first overall.
Is that relevant? Probably not. I just found it interesting.
Patrick Kane btw could join Murphy and Houle if he wins this year.
If I'm a 15-year old, I threaten to go to college to make sure the CHL team that I want to play for drafts me.
ReplyDeleteChicago is winning the Cup more because of Toews than because of Kane.
For the next three years, with Gagner, Seguin, and Horcoff as centres, their cap hit will be less than $12.5 million dollars, which is NOT excessive for your three top centres.
Sorry to go off topic here, but wanted to ask the Edmontonians for a restaurant referral. I have some friends getting married and can't make it, but wanted to send a gift certificate.
ReplyDeleteThoughts?
"Sorry to go off topic here, but wanted to ask the Edmontonians for a restaurant referral. I have some friends getting married and can't make it, but wanted to send a gift certificate.
ReplyDeleteThoughts?"
i haven't lived in Edmonton in years, so i am hardly an expert. but having continued listening to Edmonton sports radio since leaving, sportscaster Bryan Hall keeps mentioning this place called "Tony Roma's" .. so it must be good, right?
i also know from the Oiler's post game show that the people at "Japanese Village" really want to see you, and that you'll have a good time.
@ kanadienkyle
ReplyDeleteCant go wrong with The Sawmill. Unless you want to go fancy.
Oh, and Japanese Village is fun too, they cook the food right in front of you at your table. That would probably be better than Sawmill
ReplyDeleteThe NBC 360 matrix cam is pretty cool.
ReplyDeleteGagner and Seguin would be 24 and 22 respectively when Horcoff's contract comes to an end - basically he's perfectly suited to shield these guys until they can handle the vaunt on their own.
ReplyDeletePenner Horcoff Hemsky
MPS Gagner xx
xx xx xx
xx Seguin Pisani
Send Eberle to the AHL until after Christmas along with VV and the new Finn. The real mess is the bottom 6 - we need vets everywhere and instead have one dimensional 2nd line guys like POS, Cogs, Brule and Nilsson - all of whom I would trade for help in the bottom 6 forwards and/or a 2nd pair dman.
If you want something more upscale, stay away from Tony Roma's & the Sawmill. Hardware Grill is downtown & really great, expensive though. A great little place is the Red Ox Inn, very intimate & the food is fantastic.
ReplyDeleteNo longer an Edmonton resident but had an excellent meal at Jack's Grill during the holidays last year.
ReplyDeleteAlso ate at the Sawmill within the last year. Would not recommend.
Good Edmonton restaurant for newlyweds who will (probably) still be romantic?
ReplyDeleteMelting Pot fondue restaurant. Absolutely fantastic. (This is a general recommendation for everyone - especially if you're looking to impress someone of the opposite sex).
The most romantic restaurant in Edmonton is The Creperie downtown. By a mile.
ReplyDeleteCorsi: The Creperie is a winner. Gotta like that place as a "date destination".
ReplyDeleteTasty Tomato isn't bad either.
Hbomb: First one sounds good, the second, more like a family restaurant, or one of the mascots of a fast food chain.
ReplyDelete''Hey kids, welcome, tasty tomato! and Seductive salad!''
Cafe Select downtown. The SSide one isn't there anymore but the downtown one is excellent. Great food, atmosphere and they don't hover.
ReplyDeleteIf you want something more upscale, stay away from Tony Roma's & the Sawmill. Hardware Grill is downtown & really great, expensive though
ReplyDeleteThose places should not even be mentioned in the same sentence as the Hardware Grill.
Red Ox Inn
ReplyDeleteits been 6 years but used to make it monthly.
Hope gini's is still great. The table d'hote. the only equal i have had in Canada.
1. Le doyen, Auberge des 21, le baie, Quebec
2. l’Auberge Villa Pachon, jonquire, Quebec
3. la privilege Chicoutimi, Quebec
Just stay away from chain restaurants.
ReplyDeleteThen again, it's Edmonton. People here love their Boston Pizza's.
It's quite sad, actually.
Thanks for all the tips. My friend and his bride are big time AC/DC and Rider fans, so they likely need a little culture. :)
ReplyDeleteGo Oilers.
Put me in the Hall camp.
I'd go with Chickon-On-The-Way or The Lido.
ReplyDeleteFour Two Six, Five-Oh, Five-Oh.
When you're hungry, call The Lido.
Freeeee Duh-liv-reeh.
@PJO why hate on Boston Pizza, it's a great place for socializing, obviously not for a romantic dinner but you have to have a soft spot for Businesses that were started in Edmonton.
ReplyDeleteIf I owned a fast food delivery business of any sort I'd buy that Lydo number. Haven't run an ad in 20 years and that number is imbedded in everyone's brain.
ReplyDeleteLowetide: I could swear they used to run the Lydo commercial on CBC during Hockey Night in Canada back in the 1980's.
ReplyDelete2003, at a party with university friends, while trying to decide where to order some late night eats from, that jingle somehow started, and the choice of delivery really was a slam dunk....
426-50-50, if you're hungry, caaaallllll the Lydo. Freeeee de-liv-ery!
They effectively brainwashed an entire generation of Edmontonians.
Von's Steak House and Oyster Bar
ReplyDelete- good location and great for larger parties
The Lux or 100 Bar and Grill
the Lydo litterally did, HBomb, with fast food's most catchy tune! but, i have to admit, Lydo's food was only so-so, at least when i ordered it every friday after work in the 80's. ;)
ReplyDeleteThe only experiences I've had of Edmonton cuisine other than pub fare was at a horrible Italian restaurant in downtown Edmonton.
ReplyDeleteI don't recall the name for the life of me but it was across from a Tony Roma's I think. Went it and there was no one else there save 1 elderly couple. The staff was entirely Chinese which was kind of surreal since it was an all Italian cuisine joint. The food was terrible. Salmon was so dry and salty it tasted like salt dried fish, and the pasta while cooked nicely was coated so thickly with grease cilantro it was revolting, and barely warm at that. Service wasn't much better.
Prices weren't particularly good considering the quality and I think my entree was around the $26 plus range.
Anyone know the place that I'm talking about? I wish I could remember the name.
Kyle: I second the Red Ox vote
ReplyDeleteI'd also add Picolinos or Culina to the mix
@PJO why hate on Boston Pizza, it's a great place for socializing, obviously not for a romantic dinner but you have to have a soft spot for Businesses that were started in Edmonton.?
ReplyDeleteIf you don't care about food, ambiance or price, BPs is for you!
Red Ox, Hardware Grill and Culina FTW. Is Bistro Praha still around?
Speaking of Piccolino, I saw Igor Ulanov eating there once in a tracksuit, looking for all the world like a Russian mobster. I half expected him to get whacked at any second.
ReplyDeleteGod Boston Pizza, i hate that place.
ReplyDeleteThe sweet (Litterally) pizza sauce ticks me off. And the fact that it promotes it's sports thingy, but you have to be at the Bar to see shit. It's really ankward when your with younger looking girls (Or Family) and you want to see the game.