Wednesday, April 21, 2010

Desjardins NHLE for AHL Oilers Prospects (Forwards)

The Oilers had a lot of hockey players moving in and out of Springfield this season and their numbers reflect the chaos. Over the last several seasons we've had a nice opportunity to see what the young pro prospects could do with 500 at-bats. Here's what that looked like by season (this is Gabe's NHLE, top 10 F's by season).

2006-07
  1. Robert Nilsson 10-27-37 (21)
  2. Marc Pouliot 16-20-36 (21)
  3. Jean Francois Jacques 13-23-36 (21)
  4. Kyle Brodziak 15-20-35 (22)
  5. Rob Schremp 10-21-31 (20) 
  6. Tyler Spurgeon 6-12-18 (20)
  7. Alexei Mikhnov 6-12-18 (24) 
  8. Zack Stortini 7-5-12 (20)
  9. Brock Radunske 3-0-3 (23)
  10. Troy Bodie 0-2-2 (21)
Those who eventually appeared in an NHL game are in italics. All of the top 5F's this season showed at least some offensive ability and both Stortini and Bodie have managed to find 4th line roles with NHL teams. It's actually a pretty nice list, looking back on things. There's some talent on this list.

2007-08
  1. Rob Schremp 11-26-37 (21)
  2. Marc Pouliot 15-19-34 (22)
  3. Liam Reddox 9-17-26 (21)
  4. Jean Francois Jacques 11-14-25 (22)
  5. Tyler Spurgeon 3-22-25 (21)
  6. Slava Trukhno 9-13-22 (20)
  7. Stephane Goulet 9-6-15 (21)
  8. Colin McDonald 6-6-12 (22)
  9. Ryan O'Marra 3-9-12 (20)
  10. Troy Bodie 6-3-9 (22)
Another solid list, the club has Schremp and Pouliot over 30 points and Reddox slowing improving. McDonald and O'Marra didn't show enough offense and it should be mentioned that Jacques had another decent offensive season. Now that we've seen him at the NHL level, I have to wonder how many of those goals were tap ins.

2008-09
  1. Ryan Potulny 18-12-30 (23)
  2. JF Jacques 5-20-25 (23)
  3. Liam Reddox 14-11-24 (22)
  4. Gilbert Brule 13-11-24 (21)
  5. Ryan Stone 7-17-24 (23)
  6. Rob Schremp 3-20-23 (22)
  7. Slava Trukhno 5-13-18 (21)
  8. Bryan Lerg 8-8-16 (22) 
  9. Tyler Spurgeon 3-8-11 (22)
  10. Colin McDonald 4-6-10 (23)
Potulny had a nice season and Desjardins predicted his goal-scorign ability. Brule scored better this season than Gabe suggested and Schremp recovered his career when he got to Long Island. We can see the Oilers have heavily used their minor league forwards at the big league level since the lockout ended just by looking at these seasons.

2009-10 (Current Season)
  1. Jordan Eberle 20-26-46 (19)**
  2. Liam Reddox 9-9-18 (23)
  3. Slava Trukhno 6-7-13 (22)
  4. Colin McDonald 6-5-11 (24)
  5. Ryan O'Marra 6-3-9 (22)
  6. Bryan Lerg 4-3-7 (23)
  7. Geoff Paukovich 3-2-5 (23)
The Oilers didn't have enough prospects who scored points for us to gather 10 names. I don't include minor league veterans like Linglet or Minard on any of the 4 lists above. I included Eberle because despite playing in just 11 games the kid is the only bright spot of the whole bunch.

The Oilers had a power outage of major proportions at the AHL level, and it (at least in part) contributed to what is apparently going to be a large number of pink slips for Oilers prospects. From this group (aside from Eberle) I would hope the organization finds room for Reddox.

What a mess.

71 comments:

  1. The state of the AHL team doesn't make headlines here, but this is a large problem. This should be another nail in Lowe's coffin, but someone else will take the fall.

    Here's hoping that the OKC club will be a winning, learning environment for our prospects. Years of no AHL club and horrible teams have hurt the Oilers at the big league level.

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  2. Depending on the rest of the team, I'd like to see Reddox get a look for the 4th line LW spot.

    As muchas injuries were a problem for the Oilers, it was an even bigger blow to the Falcons. Not only did they have to deal with their own bouts of injury and the flu, but they had to deal with the parent club's record numbers too.

    I'd have to think that with guys like Dubnyk, Potulny, Chorney, Peckham, Arsene, and one of Brule/Nilsson, that they would've been a much better team overall. Not having a goaltender really hurt them. They had 50 games of sub-.900 goaltending

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  3. I probably should've added Stone and/or Jacques too

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  4. Admit it LT: You're also hoping the organizations finds home for Trukhno, as he's your illegitimate bastard child. Don't worry; we won't tell Mrs. Pouliot.

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  5. a bit off topic, but with the firing of the Oil Kings staff yesterday, does that indicate a hard line this summer from the Oiler brass ? There may be tons of bodies lying in the ditch by the time Tambo is done with his house cleaning.

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  6. Steve, LT's already admitted all but officially that Pouliot is his illegitimate bastard child, no way in Tartarus he's going to acknowledge Trukhno as another.

    Looks like that LT sure got around in his younger days though.

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  7. ESPN reporting that Anaheim isn't making any progress in talks with Bobby Ryan and that he seems determined to see what kind of offers he can get on the open market.

    If he's still unsigned come Canada Day, is this a guy it would make sense for the Oil to throw the kitchen sink at?

    (You've gotta think Kaatz would be nodding.)

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  8. they would have to get in line behind Burkie who has a ton of cap space and outside of Kessel, little known forwards.

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  9. It would be great to see the Blazers inaugural season to have a stellar cast of all of the Oilers top prospects. Seguin, Eberle, Brother Magnus, Nash, Omark, Hartikainen, etc. Have them be teammates before they reach the show and give them a year of Man-Hockey to prepare them. Of course it will never happen...But man, that would be something.

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  10. Ryan O'Marra. Jebus. Anyone else remember cheering for him at the WJC, then wondering how the Oilers were able to pry such a dynamic 2 way centreman away from the Islanders?

    Turns out he's instant mashed potatoes.

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  11. they would have to get in line behind Burkie who has a ton of cap space and outside of Kessel, little known forwards.

    No draft picks. The Kessel trade gets better and better for Leaves fans. ;)

    I'd like me some Bobby Ryan on the top line with H&H.

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  12. I still think you bring O'Marra to camp. He almost looked like a player when he came up. Considering he's learning an entirely new role, that's not too shabby.

    Bobby Ryan would be outstanding.

    Ryan-Horcoff-Hemsky
    Hall-Gagner-Penner

    Yum.

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  13. How is Ryan O'Marra still learning an entirely new role? I swear to God he was billed as a checking line center when we got him for Ryan Smyth and that was before Steve Tambellini was hired for the eighth time.

    Did O'Marra's pro/con scout list go something like this:

    Pro:
    Stupid GM will trade you solid 1LW for him.
    Kind of sort of Japanese. Okay, not really.

    Con:
    Intellectually slow.
    Seems to think he has a chance of being offensively useful.
    Not very good at hockey.

    Also, as a general rule, I stay away from paying fair market value (plus draft picks) for offensive guys that have played under Carlisle. He's a troublemaker.

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  14. LMHF:

    I thought something along those lines too, but if we pry Ryan away from ANA, Hall almost becomes a redundant asset. Better to take the C with MPS and Eberle as capable top-6 wing prospects.

    Ryan-Horcoff-Hemsky
    Penner-Seguin-Eberle
    Cogliano-Gagner-Brule (2nd toughs)

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  15. Bobby Ryan to Edmonton? After Lowe publicly dissed him during the spat with Burke? I think not.

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  16. Yeti,

    YES!

    I was waiting for someone to fire that shot across what should be an already sunk bow.

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  17. Can we please - PLEASE! - stop going Big Game Hunting in the off-season?

    On topic, I hope Reddox gets a chance. The guy has heart, which is more than I can say for a bunch of the other smurfs.

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  18. Who the hell is going to play goal for OKC next year?

    I think we can pencil in DD as the backup.

    Do you sign JDD and send him down or do you trade his rights?

    I know they are trying to get the Finnish guy, but there needs to be a AHL vet or two signed for OKC.

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  19. Reddox is probably cursing resigning with the Oil rather than following through on his threat to go to Europe. He would have had a much better season personally if he had.

    Why are we saying Riley Nash was dumb for staying away from Springfield? Seems to me like he is smarter than some guys running the show.

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  20. Lowe took against Ryan when he was jousting with Burke. (How is your #1 pick in that draft working out Kevin??)

    If I was Ryan I would make some kind of public comment about what kind of crappy organization the Oilers were.

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  21. Woodguy:

    The Finn goalie isn't interested in Edmonton, as per the C&B boys.

    Looks like Perugini and Pitton will be battling it out to see who gets to lose 40 games, if we don't sign that veteran that is.

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  22. Dorito - I can't turn down the prospect of 4 dominant wingers in the top six. The kind of flexibility that gives you throughout the lineup is just huge.

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  23. doritogrande, someone linked an article on here earlier in the week that the Leafs would have the draft picks to sign Backstrom from WAS as they only need 4 or their next 5 #1 picks for a top signing.

    sorry, can't remember the link or article name.

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  24. Reading Terry Jones article on the LA Kings, it suddenly dawned on me how Lowe has turned the Oilers into a 21st century version of a poorly managed original expansion team - the kind that used to trade away all it's picks and best players for top team's fading stars.

    Lowe - "The draft? Who needs it?"
    - "AHL development? Overrated."
    - "Annual whale hunting? Absolutely."

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  25. I'm wondering if we've reached a chicken-and-egg problem with our farm team.

    Springfield is so awful that kids are hesitant to leave college (Nash, Petry, VdV) or Europe (MPS, Lander, Hartikinen) to come play in the AHL.

    But part of the reason Springfield is so awful is that very few of our better prospects are playing in the AHL right now!

    I'm not sure which one is the cause and which one is the effect, but it's clearly broken.

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  26. Leafs sign Rynnas. Tambellini still evaluating.

    Sigh.

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  27. Pretty hard to have a good AHL team when your best AHL calibre players are playing with the big squad.

    I was pretty optimistic about the AHL team going into this season. They brought in quality vets like Linglet and Minard. They had a very good goalie in Dubnyk. Their blueline had a good mix of youth and vets.

    Injuries to both the Oilers and Springfield had a lot of injuries and it impacted both teams.

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  28. I think the Oil coming in with the biggest offer would make Ryan forget about Lowe's comments pretty quick.

    Money heals all wounds.

    Just to be safe though, we should probably fire Lowe now as a show of good faith.

    ...plus for (in the words of Sideshow Bob) all that stuff he did.

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  29. Rynnas would have been nice to have for OKC. Burke apparently made two surprise visits to Rynnas in Helsinki then in Montreal to convince him to sign.

    Reportedly a 2 year, 2 way contract with him platooning with Reimer for the Marlies. Reimer was solid last season so they should push each other. Hope the Rynnas makes it, good on him.

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  30. Falcon's Goalies this year:

    Olivier Roy 3gp SV% 0.913
    Devan Dubnyk 33gp SV% 0.915
    J.P. Levasseur 25gp SV% 0.896
    Aaron Sorochan 10gp SV% 0.871
    Andrew Perugini 4gp SV% 0.874
    Bryan Pitton 8gp SV% 0.857
    Andrew Penner 4gp SV% 0.845

    JP is Ducks property.

    Perugini and Pitton only played 12 games total, but it doesn't look promising.

    Pitton is signed through next year, not sure about Perugini.

    Given that they chased Rynnas I guess they know they need a goalie.

    Roy is still a junior next year, but should start at back up in OKC for 11/12.

    They need a starter there in the worst way.

    Here is a partial list of some UFA goalies who might fit the bill:

    Valiquette, Steve
    MacDonald, Joey
    Sabourin, Dany
    Niittymaki, Antero
    Sanford, Curtis
    Dubielewicz, Wade
    Leighton, Michael
    Krahn, Brent
    Climie, Matt
    Brodeur, Mike
    Doyle, Frank
    Grahame, John
    Caron, Sebastien
    Danis, Yann
    Chiodo, Andy
    Raycroft, Andrew
    Legace, Manny

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  31. Also as an amusing sidenote, the Leafs' 4 professional goalies are larger than half the Oilers lineup =).

    J.S. Giguerre - 6.01' 201lbs
    Jonas Gustavsson - 6.03' 192lbs
    James Reimer - 6.02' 208lbs
    Jussi Rynnäs - 6.04-6.05' 205lbs

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  32. Lowe said Ryan was a questionable pick as the 2nd overall draft selection... That's it.
    I think maybe he'd get over it.

    We should probably stay away from the Offer Sheet business for a while.

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  33. Teams at the bottom of the league should never, EVER make offer sheets at Bobby Ryans or Nick Backstroms. The RFA system quite unfairly favors good teams.

    Consider, if the Oilers offer Nick Backstrom 7 million times how ever many years. They'd end up giving up something like this:

    -Top 3 pick (2011)
    -Top 10 pick (2012)
    -Top 15 pick (2013)
    -Top 20 pick (2014)

    That's assuming they get their head out of their asses and use Backstrom to turn this thing around. They've still got no defense or goaltending and they'd be back in Cap hell.

    On the other hand, if a good team like New Jersey, who has lots of Cap room left for next year makes the same offer, they end up paying four picks coming after pick #20.

    That pisses me off a little because it would be a good way for a bad team to get better quickly but as a value move, it just doesn't make sense.

    I'd advocate a system where signing someone in that tier would trigger a reimbursement based on TOTAL pick value...maybe 150 "points" worth broken down like this:

    Top 5 pick= 100 points
    5-10 pick= 50 points
    10-20 pick= 30 points
    20-30 pick= 20 points
    30-45 pick= 10 points

    You'd have 4 years to pay it off and not doing so would be a breach of the CBA resulting in loss of said player (or picks). So, in that case, if the Oilers drafted first next year they'd elect not to pay anything back but might consider moving other assets to repay their debt.

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  34. Did anyone else see the oiler mail on raising the season ticket cap?

    I almost pissed myself laughing. Trying to leverage more people into locking in or lining up...

    Surely it has nothing to do with a reduction in overall numbers in the registry or a fear of unpurchased game packs. No it's the fans excitement at getting in on the action that has led to this.

    Jebus.

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  35. I do not doubt they want to lock up more seats.

    Ticket pack sales are not good in March when your team has been out of the playoff picture for 2 months.

    That's a lot of tickets for the club to pick up to keep the sellout streak going.

    Smart move on their part.

    Hope springs eternal.

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  36. I almost pissed myself laughing. Trying to leverage more people into locking in or lining up...


    I am always amazed at people who are amazed that businesses try to do things that are in their best interest.

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  37. KT,

    That makes too much sense, Bettman would never go for it.

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  38. Apparently one of Rynnas' primary concerns was team depth at the goalie position, which makes sense. Why sign somewhere if you're fighting three other guys (Khabibulin, JDD, Deslauriers) for a shot at the NHL. Dallas and Toronto were reportedly the frontrunners all along, and if you look at their goaltending depth that makes sense. Giguere is an UFA after next season and after that it's just Gustavsson and Reimer to compete with.

    Aside from that, say what you will about Burke being abrasive, he has a very deferential tone that in many ways can be quite persuasive. For an example, watch the end of year address he makes to the press. It's on the Leafs' website. The manner in which he thanks the media and fanbase is certainly more heartening than anything coming out of the mouth of 29 other GMs in the league. He knows how to win people over when he wants to.

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  39. They had 50 games of sub-.900 goaltending.

    uh versus the oilers who had 40 games of .865 goaltending. 30 JDD &10 DD

    10 games of khabibulin at start of year. (.915 save %)

    JDD last 20 games (.906 Save %)

    DD last 8 games after replacing JDD in toronto (.923 save %).

    Do you know how many Goaltenders in the league had a .923 save % run of 8 games or more.

    If dubnyk continues to play like that he should be in oilers silks getting a minimum of 32 games next year.

    OKC can figure something else out

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  40. Jon K, Burke has a very good track record at getting the UFAs he wants...and not always by simply offering them the most money.

    He's also pulled off some very good trades, the Kessel one notwithstanding. Less luck with the draft, save Bobby Ryan, but he was a 2nd overall.

    Question is team building and leaving the cupboards stocked for sustain which he's yet to prove he can do.

    Burke also seemed to have a HUGE blind spot in regards to goalies, keeping Cloutier in VanCity for so long during their peak years was near criminal. He seems to be trying to address that now in Toronto though, but time will tell if he's become better at valuing goalies.

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  41. uni: I agree about Burke. He's got some obvious drawbacks concerning spending future assets for present gains, but he has some excellent management qualities that I wish Tambellini or Lowe possessed.

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  42. These are all the free assets that Burke has picked up in less than a year and I might be missing a few collage free agents that he signed this year:

    Tyler Bozak
    Francois Beauchemin
    Rickard Wallin
    Christian Hanson
    Colton Orr
    Mike Komisarek
    Jonas Gustavsson
    Brayden Irwin
    Jonas Rynnas

    These are all the free assets that Tambellini has signed in the past year:

    Mike Comrie

    *Didn't count career AHLers like Linglet, Arsene

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  43. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  44. Remember that Burkie needs some insurance for Gustavsson as well. The kid had two heart operations last year. You never know if he needs a third which could end his career.

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  45. Traktor:

    Add Khabibulin and Strudwick.

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  46. Next season no one will feel bad after the media pick Oilers to miss the playoffs.

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  47. Re bookie

    Seriously?

    We have so many passionate Oilers fans in Oil Country,” stated Oilers President and CEO Patrick LaForge. “The combination of continued sellouts at Rexall Place, high season seat renewal rates and most recently the excitement over the downtown arena project and this season’s first overall pick in the NHL Draft have all contributed to increased demand for season tickets. As always, season tickets that are made available are distributed in the fairest way possible – in priority order to members of the Oilers Season Seat Registry.”

    Read that and tell me it's not funny.

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  48. Traktor, they may be free assets, but aside from Bozak, which one of those guys do you want at their current contract?

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  49. To go a bit further:

    What is the likelyhood there will be any media attention at all to the fact that revenues associated with ppvs, a decline in new people lining up for the registry, etc.

    It's funny that there will not be a single peep made that this fudged up product is in anyway turning people off. Instead, we're likely to see this oilspeak repeated verbatim in our daily news.

    That too me is pretty damn funny, in a sad way.

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  50. Do you know how many Goaltenders in the league had a .923 save % run of 8 games or more.

    All of them?

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  51. What is the likelyhood there will be any media attention at all to the fact that revenues associated with ppvs, a decline in new people lining up for the registry, etc.

    Did Rexall Sports release PPV revenue numbers? I haven't seen that anywhere, would be interested. Being a private company, they usually do not release revenue numbers.

    The season seat registry still had about 1400 at last count. I could be off of that.

    It's funny that there will not be a single peep made that this fudged up product is in anyway turning people off. Instead, we're likely to see this oilspeak repeated verbatim in our daily news.

    There is a plethora of things that the Oilers do that you can bitch about.

    Selling their product to the best of their ability isn't really one of them imo.

    I really do not like LaForge, but he's a pretty good marketer.

    Helps that he has a captive audience with no real alternatives for that type of entertainment spending.

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  52. Add Khabibulin and Strudwick.

    He said assets, not liabilities.

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  53. Read that and tell me it's not funny.


    It's funny in one sense (the specific phrasing), but its exactly what one can expect from a team doing its best to sell tickets.

    Would you be happy if the team came out and said something like "Don't bother buying seasons tickets this year cause its gonna suck and there will be lots of opportunity to jump on board next year or the year after".

    Its just like when the management sings the praises of a player like Ethan Moreau when they are trying to trade him - there is an underlying reason that is logical in doing so.

    Expectations of absolute blunt honesty are illogical. Its why places like McDonalds don't say "Our burgers are crap. They are killing you and having a devastating effect on the health care system."

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  54. dawgbone: I'd probably take all of them except for Komisarek and Beauchemin (who are the big ticket FAs). If you're going through a rebuild I don't have any problems with picking up a collection of assets that may or may not pan out, as long as the cost of acquiring them is only money. Most of those guys could be traded or dumped in the minors if they don't work out.

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  55. Anyone can tell me why they eleminated the rounds 8th to 11th?

    Some great players came out of these rounds.

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  56. Tyler Bozak Great aquisition

    Francois Beauchemin Sucks ass for his contract

    Rickard Wallin 9 Points in 60 games with -7 sweet jesus.

    Christian Hanson 2 Goals in 31 NHL games this season. Both of them in the last game

    Colton Orr Do i even need to?

    Mike Komisarek Overpay all the way
    like Souray but with no damn clue how to set-up offense

    Jonas Gustavsson
    Good one also. Could be a player

    Brayden Irwin Can't tell for now

    Jonas Rynnas Same

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  57. I don't begrudge Toronto for bringing Gustavsson in, but extending him at $1.35MM per for two years was a pretty mediocre deal to lock into for a season that was on par with JDD.

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  58. It took a week and the fandom is screaming for whale hunting again.

    Ryan and Backstrom aren't a solution to anything.

    The Oilers can't be fixed in a year, and can't be fixed by a whale signing. Next years draft pick is likely to be a lottery pick.

    By signing Ryan or Backstrom, one would likely be giving up 4 lottery picks.

    Some fans are as stupid as Lowe has been.

    Tambellini articulate the solution. Draft well, develop your prospects in your farm system. Sign value free agents.

    Aside: Burke can trade Kaberle to Boston to get back his 1st round pick next year, and get into the Ryan hunt if he wants to.

    Aside: 99% percent of Stanley Cup winners are built around home grown talent. Whale-hunting has never been long term successful. The only exception (which proves the rulee) arguably, is the 1994 Rangers.

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  59. Some KHL goalies who are NHL free agents.
    Glass & Garnet were both drafted,
    got to the stage Deslauriers is now & moved along.

    Name, GAA, Save%, Birthyear, Ht & Wt:
    Ilya Proskuryakov: 1.92, 0.927, 1987, 5.10-176
    Georgi Gelashvili: 2.12, 0.926, 1983, 6.02-185
    Sergei Bobrovsky: 2.72, 0.919, 1988, 6.02-190
    Jeff Glass: 2.87, 0.918, 1985, 6.03-203
    Michael Garnett: 2.06, 0.917, 1982, 6.02-208
    Robert Esche: 2.07, 0.917, 1978, 6.00-204

    Bobrovsky looks interesting

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  60. RE: Would you be happy if the team came out and said something like "Don't bother buying seasons tickets this year cause its gonna suck and there will be lots of opportunity to jump on board next year or the year after".

    If losing some ticket sales resulted in a little short term pain and resulted in some of the mamangement losing their jobs I'd be all for it.

    Right now they are laughing all the way to the bank and don't have to change anything.

    I still don't understand why Edmontonians aren't screaming for heads to roll. It's not like just anybody couldn't come up with the game plan of finishing in 30th place to get the 1st draft pick.

    It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to come up with that plan.

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  61. It may not take great skill to not make the playoffs, but to basically be a cap team and finish dead last is impressive.

    To sell your fan base on a new model after you dole out a piss poor contract to an overage goalie and deal 3 NHL'ers (not by their power did this fall through) for a heartless goal scorer. It's some kind of skill.


    To have no one question why in the hell they are going to let you fix what you broke. That's just plain old magic.

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  62. Tencer mentions on twitter that both he and Stauffer have heard the Bruins favor Seguin.

    Of course, if I was the Bruins and wanted Hall and thought the Oilers preferred Seguin as has been rumoured, I would float it out there that I liked Seguin better so Tambi would get too nervous about losing his guy to trade down to #2.

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  63. Apparently KP has been canned, as per Mackinnon.

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  64. Break out the confetti boys:

    http://twitter.com/rjmackinnon

    KP fired.

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  65. The thing is, we don't know how successful big game hunting could be because we've yet to get any big game.

    It's impossible to say what would have happened if we'd actually landed one of our big fish (Vanek, Hossa or Heatley) - all we know is that it's pretty questionable to pay a medium fish like Penner big-fish money.

    Let the hunting continue I say until it's proven that landing a big fish doesn't work. If it means we miss out on some lower-level guys that fill needs because we were busy on the chase, I guess that'll just mean another lottery pick (which everyone here seems sure we're going to end up with anyway).

    Mr. Kovalchuk, Mr. Ryan, Mr. Backstrom - we've got some DVDs we'd like to send you.

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  66. I think it's very appropriate that the KP firing comes on a day where this blog discusses the gradual decent in performance of our minor league players.

    Wonder who they are targeting for a replacement?

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  67. Sorry to see KP be the fall guy, but its all apart of the business. My bet is a lot of the media horde lost their inside leak today.

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  68. Commonfan13, if they land a big fish you're not looking at the implications to the cap. How the heck are they going to sign any good young players like Gagner, pay the D, and any prospects like Seguin/Hall when they have 7 million tied up over 7 years to a 'big fish'?

    And we all know how well big game hunting has served the Rangers and the Leafs in the past.

    I think that you're just dead wrong here, but that's just my opinion.

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