Tambellini spent a lot of time talking about drafting, procurement and development. I think this probably spells the end of Kevin Prendergast as an Edmonton Oiler executive, as there's no one else to blame for the drafting and development effort 2001-07. Tambellini appeared to frame the issue as a need for a complete makeover beginning at the bowels of development. Major points by Tambellini:
- "I've been here 18 months." This is important, because it means there is no possible way he can be hired for the first time again. There was some confusion about his hiring date during the season.
- "We're going to be trying to move some bodies (at the draft)." Names might include Sheldon Souray, Patrick O'Sullivan, Andrew Cogliano and others.
- "We have to do a better job of drafting, of scouting, of assessment." I've suggested that the drafting portion of the organization has been solid (certainly since Stu MacGregor arrived) but there's little doubt the team needs to do a better job of creating and staying true to a feeder system. This falls in perfectly with Earl Weaver's philosophy of making certain you never put a young player in a position to fail. Ideally the Oilers will see their prospects dominate at one level and then move up the ladder.
- "I think there is great value to the first pick overall." I think this is important because one has to assume there's at least a slight chance they'll trade the pick. What I got from Tambellini's words were that if he does deal the pick the return would be monumental. Or maybe just mental.
- "This is not a quick fix." I think this is important because the organization looks to be concentrating more heavily on the bottom than the top. What does this mean? Very little immediate help at the big league level and certainly no big name free agents. Not a bad thing in my opinion, but should the Oilers reach out to a mid-level free agent let's hope he is a right-handed center (or give Pouliot the damn job instead of putting him at RW).
- "One of the big things we have to do is restore that depth chart of prospects that are pushing people here (EDM) for jobs." I think that is a fair point. A guy like Colin McDonald had a glorious chance to play more in the NHL season this year but doesn't bring enough offense. Ditto Ryan O'Marra. The Oilers have some duds from the first three rounds in this system and that's where teams need to make hay. Once again, that's on KP and Kevin Lowe too. I maintain the drafting per se wasn't the problem, but Prendergast's big failures (Niinimaki, Pouliot) can't be explained away completely by injury.
- "There aren't any areas aside from possibly goal that we're set." I think Tambellini clearly believes in Khabibulin and that shouldn't surprise anyone. After hearing him talk about the three goalies today there's pretty much no chance JDD and DD will both be on this club at the start of the season. I'm hoping it is Dubnyk, but the Oilers are going to make a choice this summer between the two young goaltenders based on the GM's comments.
- "I think overall we need help in a lot of areas. Faceoffs, grit, toughness, scoring, worker bees." I think this is the beginning of the time when we can return to using the word balance with some conviction. Fewer "minute" men, more real centers. Fewer kids, more actual NHL players. I'm not certain it'll happen overnight but hearing someone from the Oilers useing the word "faceoffs" represents a step forward for the lowly fans who have watched this runaway train. Lordy, what a crazy damn ride. Faceoffs. Who knew?
God i hope JFJ goes away. He's so bad.
ReplyDeleteWouldn't give this guy the ball in baseball. Guys could make a simple and go home solely on balks.
We need tough gritty scorers?
ReplyDeleteI'm shocked and appalled....
LMHF: Who knew?
ReplyDeleteI would also echo comments you've made (I think) in other places LT. The clock HAS to be running now on Tambellini.
ReplyDeleteIt can not be acceptable for him to make some grandiose pronouncements at the end of the season and then piss it all away waiting for Heatley (Godot for you scholars) this summer.
There has to be significant change over in the roster or there has to be a change upstairs (and I'm still not convinced this man is capable).
I'm not from Missouri, but it's time for this GM to start walking the walk. I'm tired of assessments (talking the talk).
As an Oilers fan... "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymooo..."
ReplyDeleteBut I'm more mad at management than any players. If they bumble their way through and blow this draft pick and set this formerly proud organization back even further into the depths, I may need to find a new hockey team to follow - at least until Katz cleans house or sells the team to someone who will.
Isn't this basically what he said last summer? Of course, who knows if he actually had the job back then.
ReplyDelete"There aren't any areas aside from possibly goal that we're set."
ReplyDeleteDid anyone with access ask about that statement?
If any, I'm thinking Connolly might, he's questioned Tambilowni about Mr DUI before.
Well he said all the right things...
ReplyDeleteThats something anyway. Unfortunately we have to watch 2 months of other teams playing before we see whether Mr T can actually do anything.
Heard most of this last year.
ReplyDeleteBelieve it when I see it.
There have been glimmers of hope, so the fingers and toes are crossed, but if this organization sees value in JFFJ, then the hope diminishes.
OTC says time and again that they look at scoring chances. If that's true and they offer JFFJ another contract then it must be Pendergrast who is logging the chances. I.e. if JFFJ touches the puck without giving it away it counts as 3 scoring chances for.
Oilerdago: I can't believe nobody has ever made that Godot reference instead of the normal Moby Dick reference.
ReplyDeleteIn reference to the State of the Union: I am actually scared. There was too much talk of injuries and Stone/JFJ. I did like the throwing of Prendergast under the bus. I hope he is fired this week. It is going to be a long three years. I hope my blog survives it.
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ReplyDeleteLowetide:
ReplyDeleteI thought Tambellini hit on the same areas as last year's press conference: drafting/development, need for grit, culture change, new mindset, people who want to be Oilers.
Add to that the fact that the only two Oilers he specifically named as shiny examples of the new era were Nikolai Khabibulin and Jean-Francois Jacques and there's no way I'm looking at this as a mulligan.
Particularly since when he described what he liked in Pavel Datsyuk in terms that could have been used to describe Hemsky (but weren't) and his comments about Hemsky being the Oilers' most talented player but not neccessarily their best player.
He may very well burn it to the ground, but he's going to do it using the same principles he used when he tried to retool on the fly last summer.
Things I'm personally looking for in the offseason.
ReplyDelete- 2nd or 3rd line veteran center, that can share heavy lifing with Horcoff.
- A 4th line LW that can do what Jacques did, but can contribute offensively a touch more, like say 10g a year.
- A 3-4 Dman waterbug type, essentially a Visnovsky replacement. I would inquire to see if Liles might still be available.
- a 4th goaltender, a Sanford or Valiquette type, just in case one of the others doesn't clear waivers, it won't totally screw the minor league team.
- But the most important if the Oilers want to jump the curb, and attempt to make a play for the playoffs, they are going to need a name in the top 6, someone who can take the focus off the kids.
- If the kids are ready to play, or they are the best the Oilers have, then don't hold them back. I'm convinced that Hall, Eberle, and MPS are better than lot of the players currently taking roles on the club.
What was different from this little rant and his promises from last year that he did sweet fuck all about? This organization from top to bottom talks the talk but doesn't have a clue how to walk the walk. LT I think you should take the title "magnificent bastard" away from Stu M. and give it to the teflon man himself, the one and only Klowe. How this "magnificent bastard" has kept a job anywhere in the NHL over the past 10 years is completely beyond me. Good kneepads I guess because there is no rational explanation for it. And when he goes so should virtually everybody else that he has hired. It's a joke. But nothing will happen. You want to give them a "do-over"??? I say fuck 'em!!! I've had 5 season tickets for 22 years and a month ago I gave them the middle finger and cancelled. When they called to ask why I said two words.... Kevin Lowe. Fuck 'em!!
ReplyDeleteJonathan: I'm not so certain. He showed extreme patience last summer (too much patience) and this season we're going to see some action.
ReplyDeleteIF Tambellini does very little (and he didn't do much last year) then we have a story. And hell if I know whether or not he'll do good things.
But I don't think he's going to use last season's template of inertia and am encouraged by the mention of some kind of roster balance.
We'll see.
This is different last year.
ReplyDeleteLast year, Tambellini was stating Lowe's case that the talent was there, but they had tuned out the coach. New coach, a little bit more size, and things would be fine was what Lowe was selling to Katz, to Tambellini, and to the public.
Not this year.
This year Tambellini is crapping all over Lowe's work.
Particularly since when he described what he liked in Pavel Datsyuk in terms that could have been used to describe Hemsky (but weren't) and his comments about Hemsky being the Oilers' most talented player but not neccessarily their best player.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I noticed that, had the same thought, and drew the same conclusions. Is that because Hemsky's unpopular with the management, or because he wants to leave, or are we just reading too much into it.
Anyway, I'll give him the mulligan. Probably. I liked a lot of what he had to say (and don't think the JFJ thing should be taken all that seriously), but then, he talked a good game last year too. The dismissal of Prendergast might be a good sign of a genuine commitment to change, hey?
I'm trying to just ignore the Khabibulin issue. "Khabiwhatnow?" Better for my sanity.
ReplyDelete- A 4th line LW that can do what Jacques did, but can contribute offensively a touch more, like say 10g a year.
Does Ryan Jones qualify?
Lowetide:
ReplyDeleteIt's less the inertia I'm referring to than the fact that he figured Heatley, Neil and Khabibulin were the answer.
Those are the kind of deals I expect from Tambellini - more money than really ought to be spent for players who bring either a physical edge or a reputation to the lineup.
I could be wrong. I hope I'm wrong. But I heard a lot that reminded me of last year, and a lot I didn't like.
We want to see guys that play hockey, but the descriptions I heard sounded like he wants to see Wayne Primeau and Jamal Mayers.
Jonathan: What I heard was "we're not going to chase free agents, we're going to develop our own."
ReplyDeleteThe Oilers are looking for John Ferguson (the older) to play with Beliveau and protect Cournoyer and the other small guys.
I took today's PC to mean they're not pursuing Neil. They'll try Stone and Jacques until another coke machine arrives.
Dear Tambellini,
ReplyDeleteThere's an old saying in Tennessee. I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee that says:
Fool me once, shame on... you...
Uhh...
If you fool me... uh...
You can't get fooled again.
Yeah, give Pouliot the job of checking centre when he's never achieved better than 48% on the dot...Please
ReplyDeletekris: Classic. Absolute classic. And that guy got 8 winters.
ReplyDeleteLowetide: He said the same thing last year, about how they'd look to develop from within before going other routes.
ReplyDeleteThen he made Neil an offer anyway.
Jonathan: If I recall correctly Tambellini said he wanted 4 things last summer:
ReplyDelete1. One top 6F (Heatley, he didn't come and they signed Comrie later).
2. Grit and size
3. Players who were tough to play against.
4. Goaltending.
Here's what he did:
July 1: Signed Khabibulin (#4)
Sept 10: Signed Mike Comrie (#1)
That's what he did. Not very damn much.
Colour me skeptical. Tambellini made a lot of promising statements last summer, and crapped the bed with the goalie, and once again crapped the bed with Heatley.
ReplyDeleteWhy does anyone think Tambellini has an ounce of credibility? He has not demonstrated an ability to manage this team.
I am gobsmacked that an organization that finished dead last in the NHL, and that stunk up the AHL just to show how inept they are have not cleaned house.
We're not even Tampa any more.
Clarkenstein: I get that, completely. Kevin Lowe is still in a position of power and he did say when hiring Tambellini that everything had to go through him (Lowe).
ReplyDeleteSo, yeah. Nothing's changed there. Or at least I don't believe it has changed enough to make a difference
DG: Does Ryan Jones qualify?
ReplyDeleteI think he'll get the first look in that role, I'm not sure if he'll be durable enough to handle. I like 4th liners to have a bit of hockey sense, I'll need a longer look on Jones to see if thats there. From what I've seen so far, he looks like Buchberger out there, take that for what its worth.
Damn, Glencross was such a beautiful fit there.
The problem is not that "Tambi" didn't lay out a credible way to get better over the immediate term. It is that we have seen no reason to believe that he knows how to execute on that plan. For Christ's sake we are still waiting for the defensive 3rd line center that can win draws. The only area that the Oil are adequate at right now is drafting and even that needs to be qualified in that with the exception of MPS all of our draftees are, for the most part, small skilled smurfs.
ReplyDeleteLets get our payroll down to $40 to 45 million while we are developing so that we can access good players that teams in Cap purgatory need to jettison.
//It is that we have seen no reason to believe that he knows how to execute on that plan.//
ReplyDelete1) Ryan Stone
2) Ryan Jones
3) Ryan Whitney
Is there a 3rd line UFA checking centre named Ryan?
godot10:
ReplyDeleteWe have Ryan Potulny....
Also, we have Ryan O'Marra in the minors.
Sweet jesus, if I had the time I could come up with a hell of a team. The "Ryan Ryansons"
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ReplyDeleteJones is a decent option, for sure. I agree with "first look". He's played two 0.6x seasons, and has potted 15 G in 95 GP, which is far more than Jacques (109 GP, 5 G), Stone (35 GP, 0 G) or Stortini (224 GP, 14 G) for that matter have ever shown for finishing touch.
ReplyDeleteI understand he prefers RW, but he's not exactly Erik Cole, now is he? "Plug" and play.
Team USA at the Olympics had 7 Ryans. Miller, Whitney, Suter, Kesler, Malone, Callahan, Bobby.
ReplyDeleteInteresting comments from Penner on team 1260 interview with Stauffer. he made reference to how close the team was in Anaheim, even the older guys hung out with the kids and they played hard for each other. Stauffer brought up konopka from Tampa, a guy from that team that could be our 4th line mean, fighting centre with decent speed and Penner made reference to the fact that no one tried harder and wanted to win more then Konopka. Led the league in fights and can play in his own zone. Would be a solid 4th line centre to add instead of the vanilla Pouliot, especially if we draft Seguin to go with Gagner and Horcoff.
ReplyDeleteLT apologies as this is a little off topic but interested in thoughts on Ben Scrivens as a college free agent signing?
ReplyDeleteIs he any good or just a product of defensive Cornell hockey? Assuming Roy stays in junior (and he should) and they trade one of JDD or DD there would appear to be a very good opportunity for a young goalie to seize the starting job in the AHL and be #3 on the depth charts.
As an added bonus presumably he is friendly with Nash and might help entice the Nash Rambler to sign
the scariest part for me was when tammy mentioned that he'd be here in 10 years. kill me now. he's like sarah palin up there.
ReplyDeleteWho cares if they're not idiots and pass on Hall,
ReplyDeletewho if advertised we might have the captain who next raises the big one.
Much as I like what Tambellini said today, if Pendergrast is still employed with the Oilers when the draft rolls around, it'll be pretty clear to me that Kevin Lowe is still running the show, and that development and team building will continue to take a back seat to nepotism (of the Oiler family variety), favouritism and incompetence.
ReplyDeleteGo Phoenix Go.
ReplyDeleteI'm tired of seing Detroit all the time.
Oh and, damn, Brian Boucher outgoals Marty Brodeur!
Hey now. Those are the Jets you're talking about.
ReplyDeleteYou know as well as I do that's just not true. Can't believe we're down to 4 Jets left with the retirement of Douchebag... err...that's Tkachuk for those who weren't Jets fans.
Doan
Khabibulin
Selanne
Draper
Is there a 3rd line UFA checking centre named Ryan?
ReplyDeleteThere's this guy in Vancouver named Ryan Kesler, who's a centre, and plays the tough minutes.
But I hear he's like Horcoff and thinks that cause he's scored at nearly a ppg pace for a year that he's too good to play 3C for us.
That, and he's been developed in Vancouver...
It's seems that Hall really wants to go #1 and play in a hockey heavy market.
ReplyDelete"Whether I go one or two, it doesn't matter to me," he explained. "But hopefully through these playoffs I'll be able to show Edmonton that I'm their guy and I can go number one."
...
"I hope Edmonton picks me, it would be a great place to play,” Hall said Tuesday.
...
"If it worked out that I ended up in a Canadian city that would be fabulous," said Taylor.
"If I had a choice, that would be my choice."
Dear Doug Wilson:
ReplyDelete7-year olds know how to read lips, you bad, bad man.
Who is this Galiardi kid. He's got onions.
Yeah that Chris Neil, he's no damned good...
ReplyDeleteGSC: I'm with you on that one. Lots of folks diss the Neil interest, but at $2 MM a year he wasn't that great white of a whale, and he brings a lot to the table. Played third line minutes for Ottawa, 12 hard minutes a night, and posted 68 GP, 10-12-22, -1, 175 PiM with a team leading 243 hits. Seems like a better use of $2 MM than what we got for Nilsson or Moreau, for example, and don't get me started on POS. Oops, too late ...
ReplyDeleteThird easiest ZoneStart, third easiest QualComp, sixth best QualTeam.
ReplyDeleteHis Corsi is fifth best, so he's at least doing something with his easy minutes, but I'm not really sure what's to be impressed with at $2MM. Hell, those stats are essentially what we paid Nilsson his $2MM for and everybody loves that contract!
It's playoffs. Onions are the style at the time.
ReplyDeleteDid Tambellini mention which team they'd be modeling the Oilers after next season?
ReplyDeleteWhat does Neil bring to the table that makes him worth $1.3MM more per year than Stortini?
ReplyDeleteOnly one thing comes to mind for me now whenever Tambellini opens his mouth.
ReplyDeleteWords. Nothing but sweet sweet words that turn into bitter orange wax in my ears.
I don't give two shakes of a [*insert preferred expletive here*] what Tambellini says. This is what, his third rally the troops and right the ship speech?
Nothing but a talking head and lip service. He's earned all the criticisms he's gotten by his track record. Until there is substantial tangible change in the organization for the better I'm not going to hold my breath or expect anything.
Willis,
ReplyDeleteAre you serious?
Neil: 0.269 PPG
Stortini: 0.165 PPG
Neil has been a 10-goal scorer four times in his career, while Stortini has yet to eclipse 6 goals.
There's no comparison.
The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour, not intentions or declarations of intent. That's what all those fancy stats that get thrown around here are about, right?
ReplyDeleteSo, if we have a GM who has done little, said little and generally made decisions that are below average in quality (some good, some ok and some awful) then I think we have a pretty good metric for what we will see from Tambellini this summer. Not much. And definitely not the kind of moves that make the team substantially better either immediately or down the road.
In fact, if you want to talk about comparing salaries to performance:
ReplyDeletewhat does Shawn Horcoff do that makes him worth $1.9 MIL more than Jarret Stoll?
Doesn't look like Steve learned anything from Sheldon's going-away speech.
ReplyDeleteIn fact, if you want to talk about comparing salaries to performance:
ReplyDeletewhat does Shawn Horcoff do that makes him worth $1.9 MIL more than Jarret Stoll?
Horcoff plays the 2nd toughest minutes for Oiler forwards, and the toughest for Oilers center.
Stoll plays the 8th toughest minutes for LA, and the 3rd toughest among centers.
Did Tambellini mention which team they'd be modeling the Oilers after next season?
ReplyDeleteObviously he won't know that until the playoffs are finished.
Horcoff is also the highest paid forward on the club, he's supposed to handle the tough minutes. That's supposed to be his niche, his amazing two-way ability.
ReplyDeleteI don't want excuses, I want an answer as to why he's being out-performed by a player who makes much less than he does.
Horcoff scored at .66 PPG clip last year (I'm pretending this year didn't happen) so, by the above math, he deserves $1.3MM * 5 given that he's five times better than Stortini than Neil is!!!
ReplyDeleteWhat a deal he is!!!
Can the reason be as stupid as why Neil deserves $2.0MM?
ReplyDeleteOkay. It's because he has two different coloured eyes which means he must be two different people. We thought it was advisable to sign him to a big contract... it's not every day you get a played who is TWO PLAYERS!!!!!
GSG,
ReplyDeleteI don't want excuses, I want an answer as to why he's being out-performed by a player who makes much less than he does.
Its not an excuse, its a reason.
If you can't see the difference between a center who plays the toughest minutes and a center who plays the 3rd toughest, then there is no conversation here.
Did Tambellini mention which team they'd be modeling the Oilers after next season?
ReplyDeleteObviously he won't know that until the playoffs are finished.
So sad, so true.
I'm not sure Horcoff played the toughs this year so much as he was completely run over by them.
ReplyDeleteWoodguy,
ReplyDeleteAgain, it is Horcoff's job to play the tough minutes. He's paid to produce, and he has yet to deliver on his contract. That's the issue.
Quain,
You can't pretend that this year didn't happen, it did. That's the problem, the excuses for Horcoff's awful ass play are dished out left and right. The blame falls on Lowe/Tambellini for a bunch of things, but somehow not for Horcoff's contract? Fuck off.
Who is this Galiardi kid. He's got onions.
ReplyDeleteWould you be surprised if I told you he was an ex-Hitman? (And my mom's former coworker's nephew, to boot.) Had him in my keeper pool for a while, but dropped him when he wasn't producing and too many guys came back from injury at once. Then he starts producing again, and I can't get to the waiver wire fast enough. Dammit.
It's playoffs. Onions are the style at the time.
Well played.
I don't want excuses, I want an answer as to why he's being out-performed by a player who makes much less than he does.
Sigh...again, shoulder, JFJ, POS, thecaptain, no Hemsky. And still the second toughest minutes behind 34 (who played half a season) and toughest ZoneStart (tied with thecaptain).
He's paid to produce, yes, but it's pretty hard to produce with one wing, no wingers, and no backup.
What does Neil bring to the table that makes him worth $1.3MM more per year than Stortini?
ReplyDeleteA playoff goal? ;)
I sure wouldn't be bringing a Neil in to replace a Stortini, let's put it that way. He is in a different pay bracket entirely because of his position in the career curve, so it's not exactly a fair comp.
In fact I'm glad we didn't get Neil, not at that term at least - we made similar mistakes with Moreau and Pisani, 4 years to role players on the wrong side of 30. That said, we don't know what Tambellini was offering (do we?), just what Murray was willing to pony up to keep this guy around.
I didn't mind Tambellini kicking the tires. He had identified an organizational need that is still an organizational need IMO: nowhere near enough crust or jam, Stortini or no Stortini. You need a few guys to handle that aspect, and ours are either inexperienced, injury-prone or both. Chris Neil is a hard man to play against, night after night, and the Oilers have nowhere near enough of those.
All of this depends if Lowe's ready to admit that some of his old ways don't really work.
ReplyDeleteI keep bringing up Lowe because he is what Sinden and Clarke used to be to their respective orgs. It took a long time before those guys didn't have any influence on the day-to-day and it wasn't a long time ago when Lowe said all decisions ran through him - and we know for instance that when Howson wanted to talk trade he spoke with vish and not Tambo - so we know who's really calling.
I mean I really want to believe that now we value faceoffs and outscoring and we pay attention to the scoring chances and we don't overpay but this is the same guy who lost his mind with the Pronger deal and lost his way with the Smyth and Souray moves.
So can he change over one summer?
Dennis: My guess is "no."
ReplyDeleteI keep bringing up Lowe because he is what Sinden and Clarke used to be to their respective orgs.
ReplyDelete... and Pulford.