We're beginning to see some positive signs in regard to the latest Oiler "rebuild." Matty delivers some rather large items in the EJ this morning, including MPS spending next season in the SEL and some names of college free agents the club is pondering this spring.The article is here.
I have no issue with Paajarvi-Svensson spending another season in the SEL but do admit some concern over getting his name on a contract. The Oilers organization can ill afford to let a quality prospect slip through their fingers and waiting until the last minute is a very poor idea.
From the list of college free agents provided by Matheson, I do like Brayden Irwin's resume. The math likes him (Desjardins NHLE for his current season is 82gp, 14-18-32) and he's certainly a Coke Machine.
Matheson has another item in Hockey World this morning you'll want to know about today. A quote from Steve Tambellini in regard to scoring the top pick in this season's entry draft may send shivers down your spine: "I'll be interested in what kind of calls I get from other teams. I've never been in this position before." Nice.
Guy Flaming chimes in with regard to Jeff Petry's future and quotes Dean Millard having an inkling this will be the final NCAA season for the college defender. If Petry does turn pro, it might be an idea to see him in Springfield before the end of the AHL season. Petry's NHL equivalency for this latest season is 82gp, 4-22-26.
Finally, there's a rumor running around the Al Gore that Jordan Eberle could play for Canada at the World Hockey Championships. I'm not really in favor of it unless the kid earns a spot. The fact that Kevin Lowe, Steve Tambellini and Pat Quinn have strong connections and can influence his selecton doesn't sit well with me. It is the kind of thing we bitch about when multiple Maple Leafs prospects make the world junior team so I don't see any reason to be inconsistent in this matter.
I like the slow road the club appears to be taking in regard to Eberle and MPS. As long as they can sign the Swedish kid before he re-enters the draft then there's no harm, no foul. I do think he'll be one of the 4 best options on LW in the fall however, and I think speeds makes a great case for bringing Paarjavi-Svensson over right now.
Anaheim wins the cup witha great defense corps, the word from the Oiler office is "we're building thw team from the net out", and trades for Vis and signs Souray.
ReplyDeleteDetroit wins the cup, and every second phrase coming out of Oilers is "Detroit model", they sign Tambellini.
Pittsburg wins the cup, a very young Chicago teams almost takes out Detroit in the pennant series, the Oilers suck slough water, so all we hear about is "build through the draft", and "Chicago model"
I wonder what the new Oiler philosophy will be if someone like Philly or San Jose wins it all? I wouldn't doubt that pick would be in play.
One of the things that makes this management team so bad is the lack of direction and vision.
Emulating success is fine if you actually try to do it and follow a model using thought and foresight.
These guys just seem like flavour of the month club, changing their philosphy to whatever is currently fashionable and will help sell tickets.
They remind me of girls in grade 8 who are desperately trying to keep up with the latest trends and changing their look and identity on a whim.
This managment team needs adult supervision to establish a plan and keep them working towards it.
I wonder if Katz can provide that leadership, or this hockey team owing thing is just fashion for him too.
Woodguy: I think it'll be a learning process for Katz. Mike Illitch bought the Detroit Red Wings from the Norris family in 1982 and they won the Stanley in 1997.
ReplyDeleteKatz bought the Oilers in 2008. 2023 sounds about right. :-)
I'll be old. OLD!
LT,
ReplyDeleteGod lets hope that's not the time line.
I read that Devellano book as well.
With a cap and the FA clock ending quicker the team building process can happen much, much faster now.
Its tougher to keep a winning team together, and conversely its easier to get better quicker.
I just want to follow a team that actually has a vision, and not just stars in their eyes.
These guys are like teenagers with keys to dad's liquor cabinet, except in this case dad is sitting on the couch having one of the kids pour drinks for him.
Is Kevin Lowe too old to change? If he is then we have a huge problem and you can talk about everything all day and it will still come back to him and his impact upon the org's decision making.
ReplyDeleteI think part of the timeline will be Katz realizing that his advisors (Lowe, Tambellini, Quinn, Renney, Prendergast, Olczyk) are fatally flawed.
ReplyDeleteThat's what we're waiting on.
Interesting and perhaps encouraging comments from Cogliano that I found online in the TO Sun.
ReplyDelete“I’m getting a bigger offensive role again,” he said. “I don’t think they look at me as a 30-40 goal guy. You’ve got to be realistic about what you can do. This is a very tough league to play in.
“But, the coaches have told me I can be a good two-way centre and it’s a role I’d love.”
Another way of looking at it might be that from 2006 till a few months ago, the team was trying to achieve two goals simultaneously - rebuilding and developing the talent base and trying to make the playoffs. By refusing to commit to one or the other completely, they did neither well.
ReplyDeleteIt might be now that they have unambiguously committed to rebuilding that they consistently make decisions that make the most long term sense for the team rather than schizophrenically swinging between long term and short term thinking.
Marc: The problem with this group is that they don't evaluate. For instance, we've got a wonderful opportunity here to look at both young goalies and decide on which (if any) one to move forward with next season and beyond.
ReplyDeleteBut they're basically playing Deslauriers with Dubnyk getting a chance every once in awhile. Silly.
They just never DO anything. In last night's game, the first goal came off a faceoff, with the Oilers having no RH option to go up against the Leafs. We've been talking about that for ages, but all we get is crickets.
If we know the problems with this team they sure as hell know the problems with this team.
I frankly don't care if Nilsson leaves and scores 100 points, the Oilers have too many of the same guy and they have so many duplicate skill sets up front it is bordering on farce.
Different players for different roles, but no. We have to evaluate.
Management by inertia. DO SOMETHING!
Should add that I do like the implied patience they're apparently showing with Eberle and MPS. That's a very good sign.
ReplyDeleteIf they do end up being patient with Eberle and MPS then I'll be thrilled. I think they'll both be top-line forwards if groomed properly.
ReplyDeleteEberle is like Mike Cammalleri with a bit more size and a bit less speed
MPS is like a poor man's Hossa - I don't know if he has those kind of hands, but he has the rest of that package.
Plus it stops the flood of kids, if only a little. If the Oilers draft Taylor Hall, add a couple of veteran forwards with size and an actual defenseman then we're just waiting on the goaltending.
ReplyDeleteBut at least there's some structure.
I'm not much concerned about Tambellini's comment re: offers for the potential 1st overall pick.
ReplyDeleteIIRC, every GM in that position does the same song 'n dance just to do his due diligence, but in the end they never trade that pick, unless the player in question literally forces them to (Lindros).
I don't think there's any chance that Tambellini will give that pick up.
LT
ReplyDeleteCan't really disagree with any of that. But it may just be paralysis brought on by having two often contradictory goals.
They may well have been aware of the problems in the middle but then looked at Pouliot, Cogs, Brule and thought that they just hadn't seen enough of them to make a decision on them yet. If the goal is wining then they should have signed a couple of dependable vets. If the goal is developing your young guys then you have to give them enough at bats before you give up on them.
They came down on the development side on that one but then came down on the win now side of things, particularly with their free agency targets and ended up with a badly unbalanced team.
The optimist in me hopes that now they've settled on a goal they may make more sensible decisions.
LT, the time to add a few pieces was the summer. Instead they chased Heatley around. I don't think the Oilers could have torn the thing apart last summer because there was some belief that they might be able to make the playoffs.
ReplyDeleteHad they added a RH faceoff guy, another checker, and some grit this offseason, the injuries would have doomed them anyway. They might have finished 27 instead of 30th?
I am hopeful that there is a clear path now. It will require patience - Tambi has this.
As for trading the #1 overall pick, I like a switch for the 2nd overall if they get the guy they want (Seguin) and pick up another first along the way. If they could get Seguin and a Neidereiter, and keep Hemsky that would be pretty awesome.
Of course if they want to do this they likely have to keep their mouths shut about who they really want. Tambi seems to be able to do this too.
Ducey said " for trading the #1 overall pick, I like a switch for the 2nd overall if they get the guy they want (Seguin) and pick up another first along the way."
ReplyDeleteHow do they do this? Switch with the Bruins? I am confused.
Marc: Good points all, especially re: last summer.
ReplyDeleteDucey: I'm convinced the Oilers are all over Hall.
How do they do this? Switch with the Bruins? I am confused.
ReplyDeleteWell Boston (#2)calls and says we want Hall. Tambi says fine give me the #2 pick and your first (Boston has their own which will be about #12). Maybe Tambi throws in a sweetner?
It is also possible that any of the bottom 6 teams could get the #2 pick so maybe there are other combo's that work too.
They just never DO anything.
ReplyDeleteTrading 3 of 6 of the starting D is something.
This summer is really a watertshed moment for the franchise.
Should be interesting, too bad its 3 months until the draft.
Optimism and LT are old friends:)
ReplyDeleteRegarding what to do with Eberle for the rest of the year. I'm encouraged that he will be sent to Springfield. I'm hoping that he will get the call up with the Oil to play 3-4 games. And I really like the idea of him playing in the worlds. Even, if he's the odd man out, the experience of being around NHL pro's would benefit his development. LT, have you heard anything about the possibility of MPS and/or Lander making it onto the Swedish WHC squad. That would be great for their development too. And LT, I too think Hall is Oilers guy.
ReplyDeleteWoodguy: The Oilers have offloaded veteran defenseman 5 at a time since 2006 summer.
ReplyDeleteI'm used to it. What I can't understand is how they keep doing it without having a plan.
When they dealt Pronger, they also lost Spacek and Tarnstrom via free agency. The replacements? Tjarnqivst, Hejda and Smid. The Pronger asset left but the Pronger money had to go to free agent replacements (or another offloaded contract from a team experiencing cap pressure).
But they didn't do that, and that inspired the Souray contract and the Visnovsky trade (which I loved by the way).
So, maybe we get back to building the blue with more measured moves and maybe that's better for this group.
But I'd feel better if they had an actual plan.
I'm getting really tired of talking about the same shit over and over again.
ReplyDeleteI really wish that someone with a larger voice would just eviscerate this management team.
It's been the same damned shit since Mrs. Pronger decided it was too cold in Edmonton. And by Mrs. Pronger, I mean Chris.
Coach: lol. It DOES feel like Groundhog day.
ReplyDeleteOh, and can someone put Deslaur-ole! out of his misery? That Kevin Lowe put the screws to his roster last year for this year is so pathetic.
ReplyDeleteLebowski: The problem is the world is changing in a big way. When the Cardinals booted Whitey Herzog he spent some time with the Angels but slowly the game became bigger and the dollar mistakes greater and here we are with trained management men.
ReplyDeleteI think that's where the NHL is headed, away from former players and toward men trained to handle 50M budgets for pro franchises.
The Oilers may adapt soon or they may never get it. Bill Wirtz didn't broadcast Chicago games on local television.
I don't think we can expect Kevin Lowe to change, and an example (imo) is his recent comment that no one is safe. A more rational view would be "we have a group of players on the roster that will be here (Gagner, Hemsky, Penner, etc) and we'll add to it this summer and next" but this management group has already run through an enormous amount of talent since Kevin Lowe started acting goofy summer 2006 (Pronger trade, Smyth non-signing).
lets just hope san jose doesnt come calling asking the first for heatley.
ReplyDeleteLooks like Timra has made the playoffs, so Paajarvi and Lander's seasons will be extended by at least a week and a half.
ReplyDeleteI would still be looking to bring him over to get a look at him in the AHL if I were the Oilers, but maybe the team and player won't think it's worth it, given how few games would remain for the Falcons should Timra be eliminated in the first round.
Coach, I agree this is the same old stuff over and over again.
ReplyDeleteBut what do we do? Discuss Minard's positive net Corsi number for games 53 to 60?
Do we riot? That would be illegal.
Do we keep quiet?
I don't know the answer.
That stuff about Pajaarvi in't in the hard copy of the Journal, at least not mine
ReplyDeleteI wonder what possessed ...Bengt Gustafsson to ... going for the small Mattias Weinhandl, who couldn’t cut it in the NHL and now plays in the Kontinental League.
Weinhandl is kicking Jagr's butt in the KHL scoring race.
[different situation but Omark's too]
LT: I appreciate the Oilers have a need at C, but they need to draft the best player available. Sequin has had 3 great opportunities to showcase his talent - WJC tryouts, Top Prospects game, and most recently at the hth game with Windsor - and hasn't risen to the occasion. A good hth playoff series may counter this, but so far Hall has taken advantage of all the chances given to him and shown he can play in clutch situations. Aside from having some maturity issues('he's awesome, just ask him'), Hall should go #1 hands down. Picking to fill a positional void in this case may be another example of the shortsightedness that has got us in the jam we're in. What am I missing here?
ReplyDeleteGREAT GAME RESULT LAST NIGHT, ONLY JUST HEARD LOL
ReplyDeleteTaylor Hall or bust lol
ReplyDeleteOilers might pick Seguin that shows how stupid they really are :P
Woo Hoo first place in the lottery line
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ReplyDeleteNext time Lowe mentions they are following the Chicago model, a reporter should ask "does that mean no local broadcasts of the team until Mr. Katz dies?"
ReplyDeleteSeriously, a reporter should ask:
"when exactly did you decided to rebuild in the Chicago model? After Heatley turned you down?"
"If you were following the Chicago model why did you sign a vetern goaltender?, or did you decided to follow the Chicago model after the team started to suck?"
"Chicago missed the playoffs for 8 years, the Oilers have missed the playoffs for 4, are we to expect 4 more years out of the playoffs?"
I think they need to decide which development philosophy they're going to implement here.
ReplyDeleteIs it: get on the bus boys we're ready to head down that long ugly road to the promised land...
OR
the Red Wing/Yankee prospect development model.
Either can work, both have distinct benefits. They need to choose and choose NOW. The implications are all coming to a head this summer.
If the Lightning gave me Steven Stamkos and another first rounder for the top pick...I'd have a hard time not doing that, but they won't. I don't see anyone willing to make the kind of offer required to land that #1.
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ReplyDeleteChicago missed the playoffs for 8 years
ReplyDeleteLowe was careful to point out that it won't take that long [the Flyer model]
But, neither Brownlee nor Gregor tried to pin him down on the time line at all.
- "How long is this going to take?", or
- "Do you think the Oilers will be drafting in the Top 5 again next year?"
I think the Oilers will make all kinds of news this summer. Souray traded! Jagr signs! Hall selected!
ReplyDeleteBut we'll still be talking about RH centers, the PK and why they're carrying three goaltenders come the fall.
Looks like Timra has made the playoffs, so Paajarvi and Lander's seasons will be extended by at least a week and a half.
ReplyDeleteThat's pretty impressive, since not too long ago I recall reading that Timra was in danger of relegation.
Re: MPS, I don't think I have any problem with him in the NHL next year, assuming he is good enough. I'd love to see him start the year in the AHL, but I'm not sure it's such a big deal.
ReplyDeleteI think the 18yr old season is the dangerous one, but that's out of the picture now. We are only talking about one year of eligibility now and this is a bigger stronger faster kid than Gagner. Longterm this would cost the Oilers more money, but it's harder to argue this one compared to Gagner's situation.
I think that the concerns about rushing Eberle to the NHL (he's small, he's never played against men) are certainly lower when you talk about MPS. He can get killed by a goon in the SEL just as easily in the AHL or NHL.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure of the exact contract ramifications when a team loans a player to Europe, but they seem to be allowed.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if the Oilers can sign Paajarvi this summer, and loan him to Timra if he doesn't make the NHL and/or want to play in the AHL, without burning one of the three ELC years?
LT: "But we'll still be talking about RH centers, the PK and why they're carrying three goaltenders come the fall."
ReplyDeleteThere were rumours a couple of years ago about trading for Spezza. Maybe there's a chance that Pens and Cogs could still end up in Sens colours!
Speeds, re loaning MPS to Timra, why don't you ask Olczyk or better yet ask Gregor to ask him.
ReplyDeleteSpeeds, re loaning MPS to Timra, why don't you ask Olczyk or better yet ask Gregor to ask him.
ReplyDeleteI too am interested in the implications of a player loan to Europe on the second salary cap.
LT writes:
ReplyDeleteThe problem is the world is changing in a big way. When the Cardinals booted Whitey Herzog he spent some time with the Angels but slowly the game became bigger and the dollar mistakes greater and here we are with trained management men.
"I think that's where the NHL is headed, away from former players and toward men trained to handle 50M budgets for pro franchises."
We had an interesting exchange on this a couple weeks back. Is the position of NHL GM a trade, requiring years of apprenticing, or is it a profession, requiring an LLB or MBA? Given the scale of revenues now involved, not to mention the burgeoning complexity of the CBA, I'd much rather have someone who can read the CBA and actually understand it.
LT also notes:
"I don't think we can expect Kevin Lowe to change, and an example (imo) is his recent comment that no one is safe."
While I agree, I understand why Lowe is unable or unwilling to change. Remember, as he underscored during his spat with Burke, Lowe's chief credential is six Cup rings. If he went to business school (as MacTavish is doing [after putting off getting his MBA at Western as early as 1996], he'd be negating his own narrative, that his Cup winning experience on the ice somehow makes him qualified to run a large business enterprise.
But it's hard to change. Hands up if your wife or boss wants you to do something differently at home or at work, and you don't want to. Welcome to Kevin Lowe's world. At least MacT is evolving.
lt,
ReplyDeleteLets say you are right, Souray is traded and Jagr is signed. Who are we trading Souray for? How much are we signing Jagr for, and for how long?
These questions are not trivial, they detemrine everything else we do.
Nor are other likely moves trivial such as:
-the end of Ethan
-the possible buyouts of POS and Nilsson or trades of same
If we are going to add Jagr at a decent price point and move Souray for either a) a younger cheaper NHL defenceman (Dan Girardi), or b) an overvalued but much cheaper player (Fabian Brunnstrom), then other moves you and I would like to see the Oilers make become possible. For example, the addition of Michalek.
I don't know about you but I think if your top four defenceman are Whitney, Gilbert, Girardi, and Michalek that you may be headed the right way.
As for the problem at center maybe we catch a break and next year's 4C is a big, fast, RH center who is amazing on the dot fresh out of college. Though who knows, if you've decided on Hall, have an under the table deal with Jagr, and want to run out MPS, then maybe the suggested trade for Spezza makes some sort of sense. Won't be much room for Penner.
ReplyDeleteBut what do we do?
Oh, I'm not saying that we should stop talking about it, I'm just tired of it, that's all.
One day in the far-away future, some Oilers fan will look back at the internet and read the archives of IOF, BOA, MC79 and all of the rest and not understand how the Oilers were one of the worst teams in the league for 10 or 15 years. The bright fans explained what was wrong and explained how to fix it and the people in charge kept icing a really shitty team.
They'll think that some NHL overlord put the smart guys on the internet and left the slow kids in charge of the team.
Sequin has had 3 great opportunities to showcase his talent - WJC tryouts, Top Prospects game, and most recently at the hth game with Windsor - and hasn't risen to the occasion. A good hth playoff series may counter this, but so far Hall has taken advantage of all the chances given to him and shown he can play in clutch situations.
ReplyDeleteIt's like someone wrote a paragraph to specifically give an example of how NOT to evaluate players.
Speeds, re loaning MPS to Timra, why don't you ask Olczyk or better yet ask Gregor to ask him.
ReplyDeleteHis answer?
"What is palyer loann?"
I don't see any reason why Lowe Should change: the guy won six cups as a player.
ReplyDeleteBohologo writes:
ReplyDeleteWe had an interesting exchange on this a couple weeks back. Is the position of NHL GM a trade, requiring years of apprenticing, or is it a profession, requiring an LLB or MBA? Given the scale of revenues now involved, not to mention the burgeoning complexity of the CBA, I'd much rather have someone who can read the CBA and actually understand it.
I would imagine it doesn't hurt to have a law degree as a GM, just as I can see the potential benefit to having been a player and around the league for awhile.
You could have a "professional" type as a GM with 3 or 4 hockey "trade workers" giving him advice, you could have a hockey "trade worker" as GM with 2 or 3 "professionals" to interpret the CBA. I'm sure there are many other ways to set up an elite management team as well. I don't think the GM necessarily needs to be a lawyer, though.
I have a question: when (at one point in time) do we begin laying blame on Katz here? I think we can all agree that 2006 summer through 2010 spring won't make the textbooks, but Katz is the guy laying down 55 large for this foul odour.
ReplyDeleteSo when is he at fault? 2011?
“But, the coaches have told me I can be a good two-way centre and it’s a role I’d love.”
ReplyDeleteI don't know Dennis. I think I find this quote the opposite of encouraging because I think I'm convinced he's not a two-way centre at this point. Only the Oilers would let this situation unfold as it has.
LT: Well, I guess he owns some blame now.
ReplyDeleteI think the Khabibulin deal (totally indefensible) and the least efficient season in league history is probably enough to know your management isn't all there.
Who doesn't make changes after that?
Granted when Katz came in he gave Lowe the bump up to Grand Poobah of Bad Hockey, so maybe accountability isn't his strong suit.
This sounds entirely stupid, but maybe Tambellini is poking fun at Oilers' fans by suggesting that he'll trade the pick?
ReplyDelete@RiversQ:
ReplyDeleteHey, I wasn't a big fan of the Khabbi deal either but it's not like he played poorly when he was healthy
@speeds:
ReplyDeleteSounds to me like somebody is considering a career in GM'ing.
In other news, I am considering selling my copy of NHL 10 on PS3.
@RiversQ:
ReplyDeleteI agree. Cogliano would be a rich man's Todd Marchant but a poor man's Mike Peca.
Dennis
ReplyDelete"I don't see any reason why Lowe Should change: the guy won six cups as a player"
Agree completely. If we can get a 24 year old Kevin Lowe, we play him with Gilbert and we have a very good 2nd D pairing.
Unfortunately he is making business decisions and in that role he is ABSOLUTELY ATROCIOUS!!!
I do not care what salary cap model we choose and stick with: pay 4 or 5 players and balance out roster with very good role players at good prices or tear it down and build a true contender through the draft but the constant changes in the "model" is just an admission that these clowns do not get basic business management models.
Further proof we trade for Whitney and have ZERO idea that he has serious problems with his feet. REALLY??? Do you realize that other GM's are killing themselves laughing their asses off at us.In business errors like that get you fired. Course we already saw with the "Tambi" signing of Khabby we know business principles are suspended in Alberta.
My guess if Jagr signs here: 2 years and $12 millon. Which from a business perspective is CRAZY (if we had that unused cap space (which is an asset) we could acquire one or two very handy players from some cap desperate teams at little or no cost to us) but these clowns are so bad I could see 3 years and $15 million which is so much worse and yet they are too stupid to realize the salary cap consequence of such a signing
I have a question: when (at one point in time) do we begin laying blame on Katz here?
ReplyDeleteLike a whole bunch of people said at the time -- Katz started taking the blame the day Tambellini was hired.
RT40: Oh yeah, he was OK, but that doesn't change the fact that the move was astoundingly reckless. Too much money, too much term for a player who is too old, has had mediocre to poor performances since the lockout and an extremely sketchy injury history that apparently they didn't investigate with a medical.
ReplyDeleteEven if it turns out OK, you can't give credit to them for making a deal with such a horribly bad risk/reward ratio.
I don't know Dennis. I think I find this quote the opposite of encouraging because I think I'm convinced he's not a two-way centre at this point. Only the Oilers would let this situation unfold as it has.
ReplyDeleteI just posted at MC's joint:
Cogliano has been badly outchanced all year long until he gets to skate with Penner.
I still think that this team has no idea what kind of player Andrew Cogliano is and he’s 230 games into his NHL career.
It’s pretty bad, even for the Oilers.
Just to add: I don't think we have to worry about them getting credit for the bad bet on Khabibulin. It's going down a mine shaft quicker than even the smart money would have said.
ReplyDeleteAn amazing game just completed. Hawks go up 3-0 and are in complete control, helped by a 5+game penalty early against Ovechkin.
ReplyDeleteCaps score 3 in the third and then Backstrom scores in OT for the win. Amazing hockey game.
They need to keep Eberle, MPS, and any other prospect without experience all season next year in the AHL, and see if they don't make a powerhouse for themselves.
ReplyDeleteHall's too good to keep off the team, lol.
Otherwise stick Hall down in Oklahoma with the rest and tank next season, anyone for that?
hunter: Hall can't play in the AHL next season. It'll be OHL or NHL.
ReplyDeleteOkay, theotherjohn, lets say Whitney's other foot is as bad as the first.
ReplyDeleteThe first surgery took him out of action from August 11th, to Sept 18th, then by all acounts it took him about forty games to get back to playing his best hockey.
Obviously, the foot everybody is speculating needs surgery is slowing him down horribly, why he barely manage to average over 24 minutes a game for Anaheim and he can barely handle 27 minutes with us.
So the day after the season ends he has surgery. That will make it April 12th. He will likely be back skating full out on August 19th. About game thirty he will be back at full speed, though full speed now might be back to his peak in Pittsbrugh.
My point being we got a horse with the upside of being a great offensive defenceman and opened up cap space. I don't quite get why anybody would be laughing.
Hall's too good for the OHL.
ReplyDeleteLol this is like being in the conference final at least, knowing your getting first or second pick and the top two are the best.
In last night's game, the first goal came off a faceoff, with the Oilers having no RH option to go up against the Leafs.
ReplyDeleteActually they did. We were talking about this over at C&B. Quinn sent out the fourth line for an own zone draw and Potulny (47.3%) took the draw on the RH dot while Stortini (48.5%) lined up on the wing. Zorg might not have won the draw but he wouldn't have lost it to the inside like that.
Funny, Quinn spent a bunch of the year developing options like that one and now it just seems like he's going through the motions.
Sorry Linnaeus for not being clear.
ReplyDeleteThe quality of the trade for Whitney was not what I was commenting on. It was that we traded for a player with 2 chronic problems (right and left foot) and had ZERO idea of the problem. That is abysmal due diligence. I think, off of a very small sample size, that Whitney is capable of being a top 4 pairing guy on a good team for the next 5 or 6 years
So if that is the evidence of the caliber of the Oilers business acumen, they have none.
LT...
ReplyDeleteRe: RH Centre against Habs (etc)
Where was Marc Pouliot?
And shouldn't we be finding out if he's the RH FO specialist we need?
Quinn made a comment at the beginning of the season about the expectation Pouliot was going to play a bigger role on the team this season.
I'd like to know if he can actually handle it. Get him out there for the important defensive RH draws. What are we, trying to win games here?
...I disagree on the roster structure too, LT. I'd say with the addition of Hall that we're more than just a goalie away. We're missing a young stud defenseman. We're okay 2-6 given present roster members/prospects, but we're missing that #1. I'd like to see us tank for another year and get that guy.
spOILer: Yeah, agreed. There's a long way to go. I don't think they can get it all done in one off-season, so there will plenty of time to talk about stud d-men. :-)
ReplyDeleteWhat kind of term and money are people thinking Washington will sign Backstrom to this summer?
ReplyDeleteMight we see a 20-year deal where he makes $7.50 an hour in the last 4 years?
commonfan13:
ReplyDeleteI think he's a potential offer sheet candidate for someone, if he wants to go that route.
Part of me wishes they could stick Hall on Timra with Magnum PS next year. A 5th year of Junior, on its face, seems counter-productive, and it would give him that intermediate step up that everyone seems to think is essential.
ReplyDeleteAnd really we have too many guys on the roster right now to give any of the kids a roster spot.
We'd have to ignore Pisani and Comrie in the off-season and buy out both POS and Nilsson just to have enough roster spots for 2 kids. And that would still leave us with an unbalanced line up--we'd still be pretty small and missing guys who can go dig the puck out of the corner and get it onto the sticks of the talent.
I haven't read the last couple of threads, so I'm going to assume LT has already mentioned Eberle's 50th, but I want to mention it is also nice to see Rajala one of only 2 rooks better than a PPG, albeit with a year advantage and playing on a stellar Wheat Kings squad.
Whichever forward they take (and they have all but ensured a top 2 pick), will be on the roster on opening night... just the way it is.
ReplyDelete@LT - You asked when we start laying blame for this fiasco at the feet of Katz.
ReplyDeleteIMO, Katz unwittingly contributed to this when he made his first pitch to buy the team. Coming out of the lockout, the EIG gave Lowe a budget in the neighbourhood of $32 million and the cap was at $39 million. It was an amazing deal for the EIG. The dollar had rebounded so much relative to the American dollar that they upped the payroll in US dollars, but it actually went down in Canadian dollars, but most fans were too stupid to realize it. So Katz issues a statement that he wants to buy the team and if successful, he will spend to the cap. Cal Nichols is a smart guy and realizes that it is going to look terrible for the EIG to hang onto the team and spend 20% under the cap, so he opens the purse strings and tells Lowe he can spend to the cap. Lowe acts like my 8 year old with her birthday money and can't spend it fast enough. Next thing you know we've got 18, 24, 10 and 34 signed for longer term and more money than they deserved and then when he can't find anyplace in house to spend his new found $'s, he goes RFA and UFA hunting for 27, 44 and 35 and of course the misses with Heatley, Hossa, et al.
By the time Katz actually owned the team, most of the damage was done cap wise. I'm sure he had the best of intentions, but the pressure he put on before he even owned the team played a large part in where we find ourselves today.
Since he's got actually bought the team, he's played a huge role in where we find ourselves now. We'll probably never know for sure what, if any role he played in some of the stupid moves like the contract for 35, but the fact that he continues to let Lowe, Tambellini, Olczyk and the rest of the idiots manage a $100 million a year business means he has to wear at least some of the blame.
Hey I, bored with the same old junk as well - only thing that keeps me interested is the quality of thought on this blog which is one hell of a lot higher than anything going down at the Oiler mgmt offices. I was largely positive on Lowe in the pre-cap era as he ran a tight ship contract-wise and avoided the big mistake. But clearly he was acting like that based on directives from above - because as soon as the leash was loosened - he proceeded to show a stunning level of mgmt incompetence. The cup run could not have come at a worse time really - it made him think he actually was performing at a level far higher than reality.
ReplyDeleteSo yes there are positives out there like some of the youth on the team and draft results - but until the dunces in the mgmt team are cleaned out - they will just continue to keep fucking up in entirely predictable ways. Honestly makes you wonder how Katz made him money operating like this.
I think we can start blaming Katz any time at all now.
ReplyDeleteFirst off I believe he's hedging on the on-ice product by keeping The Man Who Fools Edmontonians Like No Other in charge just because he knows the goodwill Lowe's built up will hopefully help him got some of the money and support he needs to get his new building.
So we can certainly nail him for that right off the bloody bat.
There is no way to say this without sounding elitist, but does Lowe even have a high school diploma? Is he-absent his famous six Cup rings-really qualified to run the Oilers?
ReplyDeleteI mean, who knows, maybe Speeds works construction, and maybe MC got his law degree in the mail, but I doubt it. It's clear from their writing that they are applying their native intelligence through the prism of a decent education.
When it comes to interpreting the CBA, or negotiating with an agent who went to some Ivy League school, does Lowe stand a chance? I've met the guy, and he struck me as reasonably bright, but is he well educated enough for this job? Before you raise Olcyzk's role in the organization, there is no evidence to suggest he understands the CBA either.
Katz needs to hire the smartest guys in hockey, not the guys with the most Cup rings. That'd be a nice start.
1g, 1a for Trukhno today. 4 points in the last 4 games.
ReplyDeleteThe number of advanced degrees and management experience hiding behind the avatars on this site would make the low-brow clowns running the Oilers very nervous if everyone showed up in person. Not that degrees are everything - but the current Oiler mgmt team clearly have shown zero "street-smarts" as well. Honestly I'd wager that the brains on this site could reach some sort of consensus regarding vision and overall direction that would trump anything Lowebellini could ever come up with - the lack of creativity and follow-through in the existing mgmt group is there for all to see.
ReplyDeleteSo Mr. Katz - the brains here are willing to help and we keep giving free advice every day - but if you want to keep listening to mgmt monkeys you are currently overpaying - well it's your money and enjoy being the laughing stock of the NHL.
Coach pb9617: "It's like someone wrote a paragraph to specifically give an example of how NOT to evaluate players."
ReplyDeleteCoach: Please clarify. Either you:
a. disagree that Sequin under-achieved in these games/circumstances; or
b. don't feel this should be a factor when assessing him as a future NHL'er.
Which is it?
People seem to be forgetting that Lowe was a pretty good GM till 2006.
ReplyDeleteTrue, both he and MacT made a lot of bad decisions since the the heartbreak of game 7, and if Roloson had not been run over, who knows.
This summer will tell the tale of whether hitting rock bottom will have shocked some sense back into Lowe.
It will also tell a lot about Katz and Tambellini.
This will be the first time that Tambellini will not have the excuse of too many contracts and no cap room.
We will know by October whether we need a new management team or not.
the real question is, who is that dame LT? no idea.
ReplyDeleteSeguin didn't made the world junior team because the people running it made the politically expedient decisions this year, rather than the correct hockey decisions, and it cost them a gold medal. 5 wins in a row made made them complacent and willing to pander to special interests.
ReplyDeleteThey kept the Leaf and Flames first rounders at centre.
4-1 final Islanders over TO.
ReplyDeleteSo we're 9 points clear with 14 to go.
15 back of the rest of the pack.
That's Scarlett Johansson-you can click on the jpeg-they are usually named.
Scarlett Johansson. She's an exceptionally beautiful human being.
ReplyDeletesaskoil: I can't speak for Coach, but imagine it has something to do with "saw him good" scouting. Derek looks at the game using some proven math formula's (and makes up a few on his own). He's got a good grasp of it all, if you have time check it out at Copper and Blue.
OT: I know many enjoy making fun of Robin Brownlee, but when he says the Oilers are going to take Hall over at ON today I believe him. Brownlee spent years writing a draft day item for the Sun and it usually named the draft pick (among others). So, I think it will be Hall.
Scarlett Johansson. She's an exceptionally beautiful human being.
ReplyDeleteRecorded one hell of a Tom Waits cover album a few years ago, too. Best interpretation of Town With No Cheer I've ever heard.
Assuming we win the lottery, I'd be floored if we don't take Hall.
ReplyDeleteForward lines looking something like:
Penner - Horcoff - Hemsky
Hall - Gagner - Brule
X - X - X
Jones - Pouliot - Stortini
Those X's can be filled with O'Sullivan, Nilsson, but both appear to be done, Moreau, but same for him, an assortment of kids & projects (Cogliano, Potulny, Stone, Comrie, Pisani, Eberle and MPS).
Did I miss anyone?
I actually think you could form a half decent forward corps there if you could get in a 3rd line full of guys like Glencross, big bodies that can skate and are hard on the puck and can PK...
Having said that, we'll run with Comrie - Cogliano - Eberle or some such.
ReplyDeletePDO: I think it will be like this
ReplyDeleteGagner-Penner-Brule
Horcoff-Jagr-Hemsky
Cogliano-Hall-Stone
Pouliot-Moreau-Stortini
Extra: Jones, DJ King
Seems fair enough Lain.
ReplyDeleteReally hope they can find a way to make Moreau disappear and turn Cogliano into someone like Pavelski or Dubinsky though.
I'll continue to hold out hope there was something to the "Souray/Cogliano for Dubinsky/Roszival" smoke at the deadline...
Gagner-Penner-Brule
ReplyDeleteHorcoff-Jagr-Hemsky
Cogliano-Hall-Stone
Pouliot-Moreau-Stortini
Whaaat?! Moreau? I thought you were totally expecting him to be bought out along with POS? I can`t imagine him being brought back.
Shane: I think they'll buy out O'Sullivan and Nilsson, and keep Moreau.
ReplyDeleteReason? It makes no sense.
Name the last franchise left wing to lead his team to a Stanley Cup.
ReplyDeleteCentres, defensemen, and goaltenders are far more important to winning championships than wingers.
Answer. Bobby Hull.
Godot:
ReplyDeleteRay Whitney sure helped kill us in '06....
And there will be a Russian as the answer to that question in the very near future.
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet. But choir boy Steve Downie tried to amputate Crosby's right leg. Here's the link...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHeh3tyUL10
This is bloody ridiculous. I hope Marty St. Louis runs this tool from behind during their next practice.
wow some people need to stop getting so excited about whitneys feet. Whos to say the Oilers didnt know?
ReplyDeleteThat was one of the oddest things I've ever seen. It's so blatant that I have a hard time believing even Downie would be that brazen.
ReplyDeleteI almost think Downie was trying to do something else (god knows what?) and just fucked it up.
ReplyDeleteNo idea how Crosby didn't have everything in his knee torn to shreds though.
Well it is awful but there's no rule that covers it. Maybe next superstar.
ReplyDeleteInterference, tripping, kneeing... I know "slewfooting" isn't an exact call, but it really should be...
ReplyDeleteDang, I can't believe that Eberle just lost the WHL scoring title to Kozun on the last day of the season. Red Deer's goalies just declined to show up for the last game, and the Hitmen star lit it up.
ReplyDeleteAsiaOil, I don't think there is any real agreement about direction(s) for this team on this, or any blog!
ReplyDeleteAs a case in point, I personally, for sometime, have favoured a complete rebuild. I'd be pushing as many kids as I could into the NHL. Last off season I said I'd roll with JDD and DD as my starting goaltenders and I still would. Over the next year or two a lot of kids would play.
The thing is ala woodguy I'd go back to part of "we're building the team from the net out", in between my kid forwards and untried goaltenders would be a very tough defence to play against. I'd roll Whitney and Gilbert, Hejda and Michalek, Morrisonn and Schubert, Johnson and Peckham or something very like it.
The idea is two fold, when one of the kids at forward makes a mistake, and they will, a dman is always there to pick up the pieces (and feel free to substitute Seidenberg - other than Stephane Robidas I can't imagine a better add to the Oilers, or Girardi -don't I wish - I am assuming Hamhuis and Volchenko are out of our price range totally).
The other half of the equation is these guys actually are pretty efficient at getting the puck out of their own ends (different reasons of course, Whitney skates it out, Morrisonn tends to win the puck battles, for example). Less time in your own end with rookies at forward is a good idea. Yet my defence would still be young enough to grow with the forwards as a unit. There would also be some very nice pieces to trade later on as Petry and or Chorney, or some kid we've never heard of, or forgotten about like Hesketh suddenly arrives as an NHL defenceman.
I think each of us has an almost as specific plan in their head. Mine involves some trades, some free agent signings (undrafted Europeans and US College players as well as value defencemen). It also entails a lot fo players we have been ditehring about for years being gone.
I'm pretty sure your's would be totally different, as would lowetide's etc.
Why would you build from the net out when goaltenders are available three-for-a-dozen?
ReplyDeleteIf the Oilers could retire Khabibulin and sign two of the 20 UFA's available they'd be better in a heartbeat.
Lots of good goalies and finding a great one is needle in a haystack.
But LT, if they did that, and did get better immediately, it would ruin their Chicago/Pittsburg/Washington-style rebuild. Can't draft future superstars without a lottery pick. Can't get a lottery pick without sub-par goaltending.
ReplyDeleteAnd really, which teams in the last 10 years have won Stanley without a few budding superstars?
Kevin Koe has balls the size of curling rocks.
ReplyDeleteThat is all.
DG:
ReplyDeleteAnd then some.
That was ridiculous.
The last 4 rocks he threw were for the ages. Lordy.
ReplyDeleteWell it is awful but there's no rule that covers it. Maybe next superstar.
ReplyDeleteYes there is and Cherry pointed it out last night.
From nhl.com rules:
21.1 Match Penalty - A match penalty involves the suspension of a player or goalkeeper for the balance of the game and the offender shall be ordered to the dressing room immediately.
A match penalty shall be imposed on any player or goalkeeper who deliberately attempts to injure an opponent in any manner.
A match penalty shall be imposed on a player or goalkeeper who deliberately injures an opponent in any manner.
Piece of shit like Downey and Cooke should be run out of the league, and the NHLPA should be in the front of the torch mob that goes after these guys.
The NHLPA should also bargain more power in rule making in the next CBA, would like to see a players committee that had real influence.
I doubt that Lowe has any formal education over high school. Came to the Oilers right after being drafted and has been in hockey ever since. My guess on Tambo is the same. No bios on him that I've read which cite a higher education.
ReplyDeleteA smattering of research:
Capitals-G. McPhee-Bowling Green U.
Blackhawks-S. Bowman-son of Scotty- 2 degrees-Finance and Computer Apps from Notre Dame
Devils-Sweet Lou- Providence College-B. Ed.-math teacher (can count up to $59,000,000 and beyond
Canucks- M. Gillis-player agent-Law at Queen's
Penguins-R. Shero- son of Freddie the Fog-player agent for 7 years- St. Lawrence U
Kings-D. Lombardi- Tulane Law -specialty in labour law (no, your client can't have a 7 year contract at 5.5M per
Predators-D. Poile- son of Bud(a former Edm. Flyer)- player agent-Northwestern U.
Leafs-Burkie- Harvard Law- player agent
Wild- C. Fletcher- son of Cliff-Harvard
Stars- J. Nieuwendyk- Cornell
Islanders- G. Snow- U. of Maine-Bachelor's and Masters Business Admin.(who knew?)
Blue Jackets- S. Howson- Osgoode Hall (Law)
Panthers- R. Sexton- St. Lawrence U.
Many of the older GMs are former NHL players with no formal higher education. Examples are Sather, Doug Wilson, Darcy Regier, Bryan Murray, Ken Holland, Paul Holmgren, Darryl Sutter, Larry Pleau, Bob Murray.
Katz has an LL.B. from U of A. Recently hired a law school buddy to head up development for the new arena. Refuses to hire Rich Winter as a consultant.
LT,
ReplyDeleteYou build out from the net because having Nick Lidstrom (in his prime)playing in front of you makes you a better goaltender. Having Chris Pronger (in his prime) playing in front of you makes you a better goaltender. Ask Gary Smith, from worst goaltender in the league to Vezina trophy in a flash (and yes he was the caddy for Tony but his goals against dropped 1.5 a game). Why? Because he changed teams.
The nexy year Chicago had some problems and ended up running two comparatively inexperienced defencemen and we know how that goes, Tony's Goals Against shot up like .7 goals a game and poor Gary's went up by over a goal a game. If a goaltender like Tony Esposito can have a difference of as much as .7 of a game when carrying the heavy freight from just two minor changes on defense imagine what are stinking lousy defence might be doing to poor JDD.
In order to illustrate my point, one of this year's free agents looks really good to be everything you'd hope for in a goaltender, Dan Ellis. Problem is he plays behind one heck of a defense; Weber, Suter, Hamhuis, etc. Will he look as good as the Oilers goaltender. Not if they don't fix the defense he won't.
So you would rather have Ray Emery and Johan Hedberg would you? One an injury prone head case the other an old head case. Admittedly both upgrades but not, I think we'd all concede, not without baggage of their own. How about Jose Theodore, you're sold on him? You like Marty Turco's age and pay grid do you? Which of the 31 free agents goaltenders is it that you think would save our bacon, given our current defense? Just asking. The only one I get who might do all right in this fiasco is Chris Mason.
Then there are the RFAs and some of them would make any reasonable coach salivate (Lehtonen, Price, Pavelec, Harding, Schneider, Niemi, and Halak are probably all franchise goaltenders), and there in is the problem. The cost is going to be very high for the best of them. Want to wreck your team to upgrade the goaltending here are some guys who would almost make you think it was worth it.
The bottom line is there are 16 of the 68 RFAs and UFAs who promise any sort of upgrade over the current situation (Turco, Nabokov, Theodore, Leighton, Mason, Ellis, Emery, Hedberg, Lehtonen, Price, Pavelec, Harding, Schneider, Niemi, and Halak and I guess possibly you could argue for Gustavsson). Which ones will wither? Who is too old? Who would cost too much? Who exactly are you nominating as the new hockey Jesus?
So who do we petition to get a South Edmonton and a North Edmonton team into the next Brier?
ReplyDeleteLt: nice prediction on next years roster but in my opinion, there is no way Eberle is not on this team. Regardless of our wishes about development, he will be on the Oilers.
ReplyDeleteMy prediction for what it is worth:
Hall Horcoff Hemsky (1st line)
Penner Gagner Eberle (2nd line Minutes)
Stone Cogs Brule (Forecheck line)
R. Jones MAP Potulny (new RPM line)
Extra: Storts and College free agent
Jagr will not sign anywhere near this mess and only use the Oiler to drive up his price
Hall and Eberle will be on this team and MPS will replace Penner when his contract is up.
I actually quite like our 1st, 2nd, and 4th lines and only really worry about our third line
my 2 cents
Not surprisingly, I was very excited by Kozun winning the scoring crown. But I think Eberle can take solace in the fact that he needed 8 fewer games than Kozun and 11 fewer games than Beach to finish with one fewer point and two fewer goals, respectively.
ReplyDeleteEntertaining aside: at one point late in the game, Kraymer Barnstable, the overage Red Deer backup, did a textbook Roli, gloving a puck down then tennis-serving it out of the zone. Kid's from Kelowna, but I wonder if he's an Oilers fan.
So now Colin Campbell has himself in a pretty pickle.
ReplyDelete1) Suspend Downie for attempting to injure Crosby and have 29 teams and 29,000,000 fans screaming pro-Pittsburgh favourtism.
2) Follow his previous path of letting any sort of insane bullshit go without punishment and let the chips fall where they may.
What a fucking mess.
Holy hell, the flex in Crosbys leg was unbelievable. It bent like a wooden easton off a Brett Hull one timer.
ReplyDeleteunrelated: The world of boxing experienced a Jim Hughson calibre performance last night!
Brian Campbell has a broken clavicle and ribs as a result of Ovechkin's hit. Done for the season says TSN.
ReplyDelete1) Suspend Downie for attempting to injure Crosby and have 29 teams and 29,000,000 fans screaming pro-Pittsburgh favourtism.
ReplyDeleteUh the only people who would complain are retarded caps fans and who cares about them.
Linnaeus said...
ReplyDeleteThe idea is two fold, when one of the kids at forward makes a mistake, and they will, a dman is always there to pick up the pieces.
I'm confident the game does not work this way.
If your forwards stink, your dmen will not look good. Forwards that continually blow assignments, do not clear the zone, do not take the off. zone with regularity, and give up odd man rushes will wear out any set of dmen.
The Oilers have been a study in this concept since the Pronger trade. Joffrey Lupul wrote a couple of chapters himself and since then the Oilers have been employing a host of prolific writers that have been pounding out the anecdotes daily. Soft shitty forwards hurt you all over the ice.
You build out from the net because having Nick Lidstrom (in his prime)playing in front of you makes you a better goaltender.
I don't think anyone has managed to uncover any evidence that this is true. What elite dmen do is allow you to need your goaltender a little or a lot less, which makes the team numbers look better. The goalie's capacity to stop pucks appears to be largely unchanged.
I think LT's comments about the goalie market are pretty accurate. There sure appears to be a lot of parity between puckstoppers and the supply seems plentiful. Paying for this or focusing a lot of resources here seems like a waste.
It's really simple, I think you build teams from scratch by getting as many good players as possible. (Same goes for centres - strictly speaking, I'm not convinced they're that important relative to wingers) It's hard enough just to get them - why make your life more difficult by trying to fill bins at certain times? Don't worry about where they play much, because you'll have time to fix that.
Matt Duchene is feeding Tavares his lunch for the Calder, but Tyler Myers is doing the same to Hedman.
ReplyDeleteCan you imagine Oilers fans if they find themselves in the Islanders situation this time next year?
Tavares has 3 goals in 35 games.
Hall/Seguin will likely have an easier adjustment than Tavares though because they are superior skaters.
bang bang BANG BANG!!!!
ReplyDeleteLoungo is unbeatable right now!
Sorry, I got confused for a second there :-)
Uh the only people who would complain are retarded caps fans and who cares about them.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I'm sure that Bruins fans will be just fucking thrilled.
The uniting factor is that practically everybody hates Downie. That said, practically everybody hates Cooke too, and Campbell bent over backwards to let him get off scot free.
Downie's hit was an illegal hit by current rules. Cooke;s hit was a legal hit by current rules. The match penalty for attempt to injure is not applicable to "legal hits",
ReplyDeleteDownie is a repeat offender. He went after the league's and the player's money ticket. They should ban him for life.
The match penalty for attempt to injure is not applicable to "legal hits"
ReplyDeleteJust read the rule, and I do not see where it says that a hit must be illegal to be match penalty eligible.
Here is the entire rule:
Rule 21 - Match Penalties
21.1 Match Penalty - A match penalty involves the suspension of a player or goalkeeper for the balance of the game and the offender shall be ordered to the dressing room immediately.
A match penalty shall be imposed on any player or goalkeeper who deliberately attempts to injure an opponent in any manner.
A match penalty shall be imposed on a player or goalkeeper who deliberately injures an opponent in any manner.
21.2 Short-handed - A substitute player is permitted to replace the penalized player after five (5) minutes playing time has elapsed.
The match penalty, plus any additional penalties, shall be served by a player to be designated by the Manager or Coach of the offending team through the playing Captain, such player to take his place in the penalty box immediately.
For all match penalties, regardless of when imposed, or prescribed additional penalties, a total of ten minutes shall be charged in the records against the offending player or goalkeeper.
In addition to the match penalty, the player or goalkeeper shall be automatically suspended from further competition until the Commissioner has ruled on the issue. See also Rule 29 – Supplementary Discipline.
21.3 Reports - The Referee is required to report all match penalties and the surrounding circumstances to the Commissioner of the League immediately following the game in which they occur.
21.4 Infractions – Refer to the Reference Tables – Table 8 – Summary of Match Penalties for a list of the infractions that can result in a match penalty being assessed (see specific rule numbers for complete descriptions).
Here is Table 8 - Summary of Match Penalties
Descprition
Rule
(i) Attempt to injure (in any manner) Rule 21
(ii) Biting Rule 21
(iii) Boarding Rule 42
(iv) Butt-ending * Rule 58
(v) Charging Rule 43
(vi) Checking from behind Rule 44
(vii) Clipping Rule 45
(viii) Cross-checking Rule 59
(ix) Deliberate injury (in any manner) Rule 21
(x) Elbowing Rule 46
(xi) Goalkeeper who uses his blocking glove to the head or face of an opponent* Rule 51
(xii) Grabbing of the face mask Rule 21
(xiii) Hair pulling Rule 21
(xiv) Head-butting * Rule 48
(xv) High-sticking Rule 60
(xvi) Kicking a player (or goalkeeper) Rule 49
(xvii) Kneeing Rule 50
(xviii) Punching and injuring an unsuspecting opponent * Rule 47
(xix) Slashing Rule 61
(xx) Slew-footing Rule 52
(xxi) Spearing * Rule 62
(xxii) Throwing stick or any object Rule 53
(xxiii) Wearing tape on hands in altercation* Rule 47
*NOTE - match penalty must be assessed when injury results
In fact the table explicitly has the words in any manner with regards to injuring or attempting to injury another player.
No where does it mention the legality of the hit.
Where do you draw the line between attempting to injure in any way, and playing with emotion, albeit aggressive emotion?
ReplyDeleteNow we all know that what Steve Downie did was wrong - but can we define it in that same category of other things if those things are not a precedent for this action?
I'm sure every Rextall slash, Stortini punch and Clutterbuck hit has been with the intention of hurting the other guy, of causing them pain.
Injury isn't the goal but it is implied. You have to be roughed up to get injured (for the most part, Zednik and other freak accidents aside) and roughing up is very legal by the NHL's books.
Is that slewfoot? Some sort of jiu jitsu knee lock? Or perhaps Downie just slipped? I remember one time Stortini got into a fight with another guy and he fell backwards on the guy and bent his leg very much the same way as Crosby did (but worse).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pq0hRuy8mLk
Staubitz also had his leg there when Stortini fell. Did he trip him? Slewfoot him? Leg lock? Jiu jitsu? In fact, it almost looked like Stortini did it to himself. No argument can really be made that Crosby "hurt himself" in this situation, that much is clear.
I don't disagree for a moment that Downie did it on purpose and that it was punishable but before Campbell hands out punishment he needs to have a clear definition of what he is punishing.
He can't punish based on:
1) past transgressions
2) incorrect defintions
And it would also be dishonest to do things in the anti-"Sean Avery" vein of things and invent a rule on the spot for dealing with it.
Attempt to injure?
What is more likely to be an attempt to injure - Steve Downie's hit or Matt Cooke's hit or Mike Richard's hit?
*last post
ReplyDeleteRextall was supposed to be Ron Hextall but I somehow merged the two words together...
For you, LT:
ReplyDeletehttp://img19.imageshack.us/img19/4148/scarlettjohansson4.jpg
The bonus about drafting Hall is that he only needs to spend one more year in the OHL to be eligible for the AHL.
ReplyDeleteAt this point in time, the Oilers should be worried about getting out of the mess they are in, so do it the right way.
Players need to prove they are NHL'ers before being given NHL jobs. Eberle and MPS can spend a year in the AHL... if at some point during that year they pull a Getzlaf/Perry they get called up. Hall is not going to be a huge difference maker his first year. Neither Ovechkin nor Crosby turned their respective teams around their first year. Kane didn't do it in Chicago and Tavares certainly hasn't done it in Long Island.
DB - The development of Crosby, Ovechkin, and Kane indicates that sending them through the NHL route worked out pretty well.
ReplyDeleteDubnyk is so done with the Oilers.
ReplyDelete