This is Jim Dorey. He was a wonderful player for the Leafs, a young man with a complete skill set. He could move the puck, block shots, hit like a jackhammer and fight all comers. Back in the early 70's Toronto had a ton (seriously, an actual ton) of young blue trying to establish themselves but Dorey was the most fun to watch.Dorey, Glennie, Ley, Pelyk, McKenny. Selwood. I could tell you a bunch of thing about them. Punch Imlach used to tell Dorey he was trying to carry the puck too much. It took him two years to throw out the advice and return to his strong suit, and shortly after that he left for the WHA.
Glennie was a good body checker, McKenny was in the 1971 movie Face Off and was once compared to Bobby Orr (as a junior). Rick Ley was small but tough, a big time hitter (played LD). Selwood may have had more actual talent than all of them (it is a stretch but he was good) but spent his peak seasons in the WHA. Pelyk was much-heralded and had a couple of good seasons but his career was generally considered a disappointment.
Which was the story of the early 1970's Leafs team. Honestly, these were really good young players and the Leafs (actually Ballard) pissed them all away. They traded Dorey to the Rangers during the 1971-72 season but it was really just getting him out of town because the club felt they might lose him to the new league.
All that talent. In 1970-71, Ley & Selwood were 22-years old, Dorey & Pelyk were 23, McKenny and Glennie 24. The Leafs finished +22 at even strength (source: Hockey-reference.com) and would have rolled 5 defensemen a night (I'm almost certain this is true, please correct me if I'm wrong). So a good defenseman on that team would have finished +7 to +10 depending on his TOI. Here's the list:
- Bob Baun +17
- Mike Pelyk +17 (paired with Baun)
- Jim McKenny +11
- Rick Ley +11
- Jim Dorey +6
- Ken Murray +1 (24gp)
- Brian Glennie -1
- Brad Selwood -7
Quality young defensemen with some experience and plenty of good years ahead. Pelyk stayed with the Leafs at the beginning of the WHA raids, not leaving until 1974 summer (two years after the raids began). McKenny stayed the whole time and proved to be an impressive offensive defenseman with some chaos defensively. Glennie also stayed, but Selwood, Ley & Dorey jumped as soon as the WHA opened its door for business.
It took the Leafs very little real time to recover (they were an impressive drafting team during this era and ventured overseas to help solve the issue) enough to contend; by 1973-74 they added Borje Salming and Ian Turnbull and were well on their way to recovery. I don't think it is a massive stretch to suggest that the Leafs might have won a mid-70's Stanley if they'd managed to keep Jim Dorey, Brad Selwood and the others. Not pissing off Keon may also have helped the cause.
--
The Oilers have a large group of blue trying to establish themselves in the NHL. The most promising of the group, Theo Peckham, has battled injury and conditioning issues this season but looks much improved since his latest recall. The most frustrating of the group, Taylor Chorney, hasn't gotten a minus during the anthem but he's getting closer. The new hope, Jeff Petry, may or may not leave college and join the pro ranks in the fall.
Johan Motin and Alex Plante are not ready for prime time players.
--
What this blueline badly needs is a more complete young player, a young Jim Dorey. Ryan Whitney, Tom Gilbert and Ladislav Smid will need more help than is available in the system at this time in order to contend and unless Jeff Petry is all that the Edmonton Oilers have some real issues on the blue now and into the future.
And you know, it was a strength not so very long ago. Too bad we don't have Ballard and the WHA raids to blame.
When was it an actual strength? The defence corps that began the season looked nice on paper, but I think it was an overrated group. Grebeshkov has real talent, but is 'chaos defensively'. Souray has a big shot and is very physical, but he's terrible at even-strength and doesn't make the best decisions with the puck. Visnovsky is a great offensive player, and does quite well defensively given his size, but he can't be expected to shut down the other team's best lines.
ReplyDeleteGilbert and Smid are both nice players, but neither are top-pairing d-men. Staios is a nice fit in Calgary, but really wasn't pulling his weight here. Strudwick is a good AHL d-man.
That was our D. We had no tough-minutes defenceman. It had lots of intriguing offensive players that would be good fits as the #4 or #5 d-man, but no one who could effectively play 25 minutes per game in all situations. On paper, asset wise, there were some nice things, but in effect, it wasn't that good a unit.
Need more Willy Mitchell (pre-concussion) and less Grebeshkov.
I think young Albelin's a question mark because we really haven't seen him being worth paying unless he was playing with the Old 71 and now we know he's got an old neck injury that's really wreaking havoc with his health and has sapped his offensive ability.
ReplyDeleteOk I made that last part up:)
In any case he's a question mark.
Lain I am sure you know about a lot of these instances but I looked up Dorey on DB and was shocked to see that a guy like him never bothered to come back to the NHL. When I think of the WHA - granted I was a '75 so I only know what I read at a young age - I think of older guys like Hull or Howe who went there for money or kids like Ramage who used it as a springboard. It sorta knocked me back a little to see guys go in there and never really resurface again in the NHL.
I imagine you'll cite Marc Tardiff as a guy who spent his peak years in the WHA but here's an idea for you: give me five or 10 guys who went to the WHA at a young age and never played three full seasons in the NHL afterwards.
Peter: We just disagree with the quality of the defense.
ReplyDeleteI believe Visnovsky is an outstanding NHL defenseman, and although he does have shortcomings (size, some chaos) he's also extremely effective at both ends of the ice. He can win puck battles and he can recover in the blink of an eye. One of the smartest players I've ever seen play for the Oilers.
I like Tom Gilbert almost as much. Under MacT he was delivering impressive offensive seasons and played a strong, finesse game without the puck. Huddy would have been a big help too, and I think the new coaching staff changed his game a little and it took some time to get it together. But for me this guy is a very good NHL defenseman.
Grebeshkov had a poor year and we know there is some inconsistency but once again it is true that the previous admin. found a way to make it work. They sheltered him a little more (just a little) and they found a way for him to contribute offensively.
Smid I'll agree with, he's less than pretty much all Oiler fans believe. With Lubo gone I expect he'll be backing up and chasing for most of next season (at least the period of time he isn't on the IR because he forgot to get his hands up before some guy tried to knock his head off. Seriously, he needs to spend some time learning self defense).
Souray is gone, gone, gone. When healthy he did give this team a physical element plus the cannon on the PP.
Staios was/is done, I agree.
Strudwick too.
Still, I think this was a strength of the club entering the fall. New coaches, changes in role and altering their style, injuries to forwards and crappy goaltending have made this group look like less than they are.
I'd bet real dollars that all of Visnovsky, Gilbert, Grebeshkov and Souray have better seasons in 10-11.
We need less injury prone players.
ReplyDeleteI was just reading up on Ryan O'Marra's "progress" in the pros(compared to the pre draft scouting reports), and shudder to imagine the future for some of the Oilers current 'can't miss' prospects a lot of people are drooling over.
PS: Speaking of ex 1972 Leafs, How good was Jim Harrison?
Dennis: Dorey had injury troubles, most of which came from the style he played.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that most of these guys didn't come back to the NHL is easy to explain.
1. The massive amount of elite young talent available when the WHA folded. Gretzky, Messier, all those kids on Birmingham. The 1979 and 1980 drafts were full of top flight players, to the point where men like Dino Ciccarelli were signed as undrafted free agents. An increadible amount of elite talent arrived in the NHL 1979-81 and buried the role players.
2. Plenty of the really good WHA players jumped to the NHL before the end of the new league. Anders Hedberg would be an excellent example, former Oiler Mike Rogers a less well known one.
3. People forgot who played in the WHA and then discounted their achievements in the league. Mark Howe should be in the HHOF but you rarely hear about his impressive time in the rival league.
4. The Birmingham Bulls 78-79 weren't famous but there were going to be. Rob Ramage, Michel Goulet, Rick Vaive, Craig Hartsburg, and Cincinnati had a few nice ones too.
As for your final question, I'm not absolutely certain what you're looking for. However, players who went to the WHA at a young age, peaked there and then spend just a few seasons in the NHL after the merger would include Robbie Ftorek, Blair MacDonald, Real Cloutier, Serge Bernier. Dave Keon entered the league as an older man, played in the WHA and still had enough to play in the NHL after the merger. Buddy could skate. :-)
hunter 1909: Harrison was excellent, scored goals in bunches. A very clever stickhandler, he lost his career (and his pension) to injuries but when he was healthy Jim Harrison was an exceptional player.
LT: I just know these guys through hockey cards but I can't believe I missed Buddy Cloutier and to a lesser extent Ftorek.
ReplyDeleteBTW, I don't think it's possible Souray can have a worse season in '11 unless he goes around hitting his teammates with a lead pipe.
Two wasted seasons out of three and one of the worst signings in Oilers history. Of course no one has the balls to talk about it in the 'real' media.
I was trying to remember who, besides Messier, was a Stinger that last year. Turns out, Mike Gartner of all people. Damn. Also, a young (thought not underage) Mike Liut.
ReplyDeleteAnother Oilers connection with the '79 Stingers: future coach Bryan Watson played half the season with them and half the season with the Capitals in '78-'79, the year he retired.
Lowetide: If you could pick either player, which would it be?
ReplyDelete- Mark Howe
- Brett Hull
hunter: I'd take Hull in terms of peak value (the seasons where he was ripping off monsters) but prefer Mark Howe's career value. I know you can't add up plus minus, but Howe was +400 for his career and that's just silly good.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteLT, you listed off a nice young dman list to start of with and I agree we need to add someone to help. Given that Souray will be gone in the summer, who would you have the Oilers target via trade or FA signing? I hoping we are able to sign Dan Hamhius. He's a solid 2-way dman and just entering into his prime. All indications that he's looking for Gilbert money ($4mil), would that be too much money tied up in the D for a rebuild team? Or would you rather sign a cheap veteran type dman? I have really liked what I've seen from Aaron Johnson and hope we keep him around.
ReplyDeleteWhitney-Gilbert
Smid-Hamhuis
Johnson-Peckam/Petry
Oilfan: I've always liked Hamhuis, although he's certainly not the gem of that NAS blue. The guy I'd really like is PHX's Zbynek Michalek.
ReplyDeleteinteresting LT, can't say that I have watched him enough to agree with you. But I will keep an eye on him the next time he's on the tube. He would come cheaper than Hamhuis, same age,and a fellow countryman for Laddy to play with.
ReplyDeleteHere's something I've been pondering. 2003 was a great draft year.
ReplyDeleteHow much of this can be attributed to the fact that due to the lockout, some players were forced to spend their 20 year old season in the AHL?
This wasn't the case for all of them (Getzlaf, Richards, Phaneuf were too young and spent 2004-2005 in the WHL). But Staal, Vanek, Parise, Horton, Suter, Brown, Kesler and Bergeron all full AHL seasons under their belts before the lockout ended.
Maybe it's a coincidence, but somehow I doubt it.
Zbynek Michalek is just a beast. When Gretzky was in town they leaned very very heavily on him to carry the load at a young age.
ReplyDeleteI don't know what he's been like now and how he's progressed since I haven't watched a lot of hockey in the last year and a half, but if he's that same player from 2 seasons ago I'm all for getting his name inked on a contract.
I don't know if Phoenix will let him walk though, and if he'd want anything to do with the Oil.
Nashville just has a impressive defense corp with Weber, Sutter, Hamhuis, Zidlickly, Grebeshkov. Kevin Klein is no slouch either (logs about 20 minutes a game) and then there's young Cody Franson coming along. They're very frugal and it'll sting to lose Hamhuis, but with their history of drafting and procuring quality NHL D I wouldn't worry about them taking too long to recover.
As a side note Nashville grabbed Sutter, Klein and Weber in that order in the 2003 draft if anyone recalls. Half their current D corp from one draft, yowsa.
The defence corps that began the season looked nice on paper, but I think it was an overrated group.
ReplyDeleteInjuries & goaltending
Strudwick has played in over 85% of the Oiler's games
LT:
ReplyDeleteVisnovsky is a beaut, no doubt. I just don't see him as a top-pairing guy unless he has a big, physical partner, a Mike Komisarek type (I say 'type' because I think Komisarek is overrated, but still, a big, physical d-man that skates well).
I love Gilbert as well. The offence is definitely there. Though he hasn't done it too much this year, in the 2 previous years he was known to sneak into the slot area and roof a wrist shot top-right. In his end, he's composed with the puck, and though he isn't that physical, he's solid.
We agree on the remainder except Grebeshkov. Grebs has great hands and skates well, but he's the opposite of a solid d-man. He's good with the outlet pass, but I've seen him fan on passes more often than any other Oiler by about 10 fold. I don't know if it's concentration or what, but he's just a mess when he's not in the offensive zone or making a nice seem pass up the ice. Yes, he's a great pickup for a 2nd round pick, but I never trusted him and I'm not sad to see him gone. In the post I made, I see him as a great #5 guy, who could make the jump into the top-4 if paired with a solid guy (aka Shea Weber in Nashville - he's a great fit there).
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteSchitzo:
ReplyDeleteI don't think much can be attributed to playing in the AHL at 20, but I could well be wrong.
But even if it's not a coincidence, the AHL THAT season is not comparable to the "normal" AHL because of the lockout - the league was higher quality than normal (its highest quality ever?) but still not NHL quality. Sending a 20 year old to the AHL now is not the same as sending them to the AHL in the lockout season.
Of your listed players, Staal, Horton, Brown, and Bergeron had already played a season in the NHL before the lockout. So maybe the AHL season helped, but maybe it was just a really good draft?
I forgot to mention, that was actually the 19, not 20, year old season for a couple of those players.
ReplyDeleteI believe there was an exception made for that season in the AHL. Players drafted from the CHL, who had played in the NHL the previous season, were allowed to play in the AHL at age 19 that season. So it's not much of a comparable for CHL players now, who simply can't play in the AHL at 19.
The rest of the players you listed were all NCAA players, and therefore could play in the AHL at 19 (though some of them were 20, there was a draft rule changed that summer for NCAA players which contributed to the depth of the draft)
Speeds:
ReplyDeleteThanks, I was wondering why some were stuck in the CHL and some were not. I assumed it was a birthday issue, but a special exception would make sense.
Is it safe to add Johnson to Whitney, Gilbert, Smid?
ReplyDeleteHe has looked pretty good. Peckham could be in the top 5 with another relatively cheap pick up brought in to shore things up. If they can't get rid of Souray, that's not a bad D corp.
With Motin, Plante, Petry, and maybe a nice pick at 31 in the wings I think this is least of the Oilers problems (which is not saying much).
For the limited purpose of this game and season - Go Leafs!
Apparently Whitney in tonight.
ReplyDeleteJDD and Gustavsson in net.
I just hope these Phudus don't win this game. If they fail to secure a top 2 pick, this could the the game we'll all look back on and say ''that was the one''
Anyone else notice Eberle's not the leading goal scorer in the Dub anymore?
ReplyDeleteNoted 'black sheep' prospect Kyle Beach has 52. Another mid-round steal for the Blackhawks because they chose to evaluate talent and not personality.
Also, and just because I've got nothing better to do and am glancing through the Dub's top scorers, I don't give a shit that Weal's 5'9 that kid should be drafted top-15. Another team (Chicago?) is going to be getting another absolute steal.
Beach has had a couple of concussions, Dorito, so I'm not sure character is the sole reason people were wary.
ReplyDeleteBeach has had a couple of concussions, Dorito, so I'm not sure character is the sole reason people were wary.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure this is the approach Hockey Canada's been trying to use to pull the wool over scouts' minds. Guy Flaming over at CDTP have been backing Beach for years now and I'm starting to agree with them. Fact is, we could have used a Beach type this year at the U-20s instead of a Nemicz.
Dorito,
ReplyDeleteBeach went 11th overall. He was ranked 7th for NA skaters. Hardly a "steal".
The Oilers picked Eberle at 22.
Eberle 49 goals, 105 points in 56 games. Thats 1.875 pts per game and 0.875 goals per game.
Beach 52 goals, 84 points in 67 games. Thats 1.25 PP/G and 0.776 goals per game.
Beach certainly has a physical element which is why he was ranked higher but if there was a steal here it was by the Oilers.
Ducey:
ReplyDeleteCompletely thought he dropped to the second round. Damn, there goes my logic.
Ducey - wouldn't include Johnson in there unless they sign him, he's UFA.
ReplyDeleteHe's an interesting guy. Someone, maybe Bruce or LT, compared him to Staios. He was top six in Chciago last season and took a regular bottom pair shift in the playoffs. Then on to Calgary. Two pretty tough lineups to crack.
Certainly the Oilers could do worse for a 6/7.
Will be at the game tonight, looking forward to it.
There were definitely issues with Beach when it came to attitude. My impression was that he is a top end talent, like lottery pick we're talking, if it weren't for that. So I think both dg and Ducey are right actually, assuming that both pan out of course, which remains to be seen.
ReplyDeleteBeach at 11 doesn't sound like a steal per se but I think he's all world talent so if he matures then yeah I think you could consider him that.
Lander scored the game winning goal (1-0 final). Lander finished the season with 7 goals, 16 points, in 49 games.
ReplyDeleteMPS finishes the regular season with 29 points in 49 games, with the playoffs left to add to that total.
The guy I'd really like is PHX's Zbynek Michalek.
ReplyDeleteSeconded.
Since December and start of trade talk. My list
ReplyDeleteSeidenberg, Jurcina, and Z. Michalek. Can you imagine getting the first and the last on 4 year contracts for what Souray costs.
Would have posted earlier, but in the process of building a modified version of this for my 5 year old.
http://www.thespacestore.com/spshbubed.html
Never tell your 30 Year old Fiance you can build something when discussing creating space for the new baby.
That's pretty awesome, rickibear. I think Bruce has the adult size version.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.sportscity.com/nhl/2010-nhl-unrestricted-free-agents-by-position/#Defense
ReplyDeleteThere are some really nice defensemen coming up for free agency. I think we should look to guys in the 3-4 million dollar range, assuming we are able to move two contracts out of the Moreau/Nilsson/O'Sullivan group. Michalek, Seidenberg, Volchenkov and Hamhuis would seem to be the obvious targets.
The team has missed that pure defensive player on the backend for quite some time now, unless you count a declining Staios.
Assuming we're fucked with Khabibulin's contract, a defenseman in this mold and a faceoff centre for around 1.5 million should be our offseason goals. Hopefully Tambellini is done assessing the team and at least attempts to address those areas.
Christ, I thought I just spent a lot of money on a bed. (When it comes to buying furniture or suits, I might as well wear a shirt that says "I have no idea what I'm doing - take advantage of me!") That's nuts.
ReplyDeleteI'm off to the game tonight, which should be fun, although (long story), I've learned a lesson: never accept tickets that come with a condition.
I don't give a shit that Weal's 5'9 that kid should be drafted top-15.
ReplyDeleteLast time I said that about a kid, he went thirteen rounds into his eligibility before getting picked up. Don't hold your breath; betcha the Oilers will draft another talentless goon over him.
On that note, saw Abney play last night. Better than I'd expected, I'll be honest: his line had Calgary hemmed in a couple of times (though I assume it was the Hitmen's fourth line), he had a couple of solid hits (including lifting up and tossing Kyle Aschim square on his keester), and a couple of good opportunities in front of the net on the PP (!) once the game was in hand that he couldn't quite corral. Still, I'm not entirely convinced there's NHL potential there: he's big, yes, but he's slow as hell, and probably still only played six or seven minutes all night last night, in a game between the best and worst in the East, which had been all but decided by the midway point. I didn't even see him show his stuff in a scrap, though to be fair, the only guy who might be willing/able to take him on, Ian Schultz, is old enough and established enough that he can pick his fights now. Did see one bout between Behn and Klarc Wilson; I have to assume they were brothers, not only because they both have stupid spellings of their first names, but because I haven't seen two guys light each other up that viciously, for that long, off the draw in a damned long time.
Laforge on Live at Wayne Gretzky's on The Team 1260 now.
ReplyDeleteI blame Laforge.
Lander scored the game winning goal (1-0 final)
ReplyDeleteTimra needed to win that game in regulation to make the playoffs. And Lander pots the game's only goal in the third period to make it happen.
Beauty.
Didn't see this posted anywhere else, but there's an article on TSN's website that Doug Weight is about to have season ending surgery for a torn rotator cuff and torn labrum. That's pretty much got to be the end of the line for Dougie I would think. Too bad. One of the best Oilers ever, and certainly my favorite Oiler post dynasty division. Too bad that a guy like that goes out playing for a joke of a franchise in Long Island.
ReplyDeleteMoreau returns! Just in time! if he takes a penalty with less than 5 minutes we all have to chug 2 cans of our finest lager.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Whitney not a complete pansy. Will play tonight.
ReplyDeleteRider Guy, Dougie won a Cup with Carolina against the Oilers. I don't feel too badly for him, most guys never get a whiff at the Cup.
ReplyDeleteHe's at the stage in his career where he mentors the younger players, and adds some scoring depth, nothing more. Hopefully he can come back next season and end his career on his own terms. If not though, he's had a helluva career and I wish him all the best and thanks for the memorable years he wore the Oildrop.
Oilers currently have 49 points with 15 games left to play.
ReplyDeleteFranchise worst was 60 points.
Will this years team be Over or Under 60 points?
RE: Too bad that a guy like that goes out playing for a joke of a franchise in Long Island.
ReplyDeleteThe joke of a franchise have 61 points to our 49, what does that make the Oilers?
Re: possible defencemen,
ReplyDeleteLove Zybnek Michalek, not a big hitter, but will throw himself in front of any shot. Would sort of fit in with our new theme of big but not overly aggressive.
We should sign Johnson, seems like he has figured out the NHl game.
Add to your list, the obvious choice if you can't get Hamhuis or Volchenkov and probably we won't have a hope, Shaone Morrisonn, of the Caps. He doesn't want to leave Washington, and why would he, but they have Alzner and Carlson way outplaying in the AHL. No room at the inn for a great stay at home defenceman.
I'd want to know a bit about how Jurcina is recovering from his surgery before investing in him, but he is like Michalek, brave and highly efficient.
You could also go long and cheap and take a flyer on Nathan Paetsch, if Howson's asleep, Brett Skinner out of Colorado's system, or again from Columbus, Brendan Bell. Paetsch has some offensive upside. Bell and Skinner are kind of like Drewskie in LA, just on the cusp of getting it all together. Skinner can move the puck.
5-2 Oilers with Penner, Cogs and JDD as 3 stars. Not to worry PJO...they'll still end up finishing 30th.
ReplyDeleteWhoop! I get to watch the 1st period of tonight's game. Who plays on this team this month?
ReplyDeleteUnsuccessfully tried to get tickets to the game tonight. Can't believe I lived in Edmonton for 3 years & have still never seen them play live yet.
ReplyDeleteI just listened to Dan Tencers Podcast and he mentioned that Jordan Eberle could be selected to team Canada at the WHC due to the Lowe/Messier connection
ReplyDeleteBBZC: I like that idea quite a bit. The more injury free hockey Eberle plays against professionals heading into next year, the better IMO.
ReplyDeleteFrom the Oilers site:
ReplyDeleteComrie - Horcoff - Moreau
Penner - Cogliano - Brule
Minard - Gagner - Pouliot
Nilsson - Potulny - Stortini
Gilbert - Whitney
Chorney - Strudwick
Johnson - Peckham
How long has Comrie been healthy for? This is Moreau's first game in a while, yes? How embarrassed should we be by this defense?
PJO: Please relax. We can win this game and still be comfortably behind (or as some call it, "ahead") by 5-6 points. Beat the fucking Leafs, I say. This season has been more than embarrassing enough. We don't need to assume the position every goddamned night, and we don't need to finish DFL by 10 points either.
ReplyDeletePJO: Please relax. We can win this game and still be comfortably behind (or as some call it, "ahead") by 5-6 points. Beat the fucking Leafs, I say. This season has been more than embarrassing enough. We don't need to assume the position every goddamned night, and we don't need to finish DFL by 10 points either.
ReplyDeleteThe nominal benefits of a win are clearly insignificant relative to the potential adverse consequences of a win down the road.
We're porridge. We can't sink any further than this.
I hope those phudus (Oilers) lose tonight.
The Islanders aren't completely out of the woods either, given their tough schedule.
Does Toronto know the words?
ReplyDeleteThis has been a fun one to watch so far - I picked a great period it seems. Defensive breakdowns a plenty and enough TML chances to give us hope. Phaneuf's still a tool though.
ReplyDeleteFun game so far. Lots of fast, young guys creating chances for both sides on mistakes and moxy.
ReplyDeleteThat should be moxie.
ReplyDeleteOilers have a tough schedule too. Every team we play is better than us.
ReplyDeleteBad hockey in this one. This is fun I guess.
ReplyDeleteI'm just hoping I like this franchise again once they finally purge the inept front office.
Moxy was a good band in the mid-70s, they were from somewhere near Toronto. Their lead singer was originally the front man for A Foot in Cold Water which had a terrific song called Make Me Do Anything you Want.
ReplyDeleteThat is all.
One other thing, it's a good thing the Oilers don't qualify because Chorney should be nowhere near an NHL team right now. He sucks.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I don't see what they see in Chorney. Usually I see things to like about a guy even when he fucks up once a period. But Chorney fucks up once a shift, and I'm just not seeing the "good" part at all.
ReplyDeleteI do like Johnson and Peckham as projects though. There's something to work with there.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if Penner, Nilsson and Cogs make it past the draft as Oilers? Anyone place odds on those three?
hmmm, top corner. Looks familiar
ReplyDeleteI'm still trying to make my mind up on Cogliano. It seems every shift of his in the scattered hockey I've watched this year involves at least one play in which he skates it through the neutral zone and gets the puck deep. That said, it doesn't tend to stay there for long nor does it often end up in the net. If, for argument's sake, my observations could be extrapolated, would such a player have value?
ReplyDeleteI would be satisfied with anyone of Volchenkov, Hamhuis or Michalek as a FA signing all sound defensively and paired with Gilbert would give us a solid top 4 pairing.
ReplyDeleteSmid, Peckham and Johnson round out the roster
Forgot we are short a second top 4 pairing.......Souray with Whitney I guess
Whoops, I meant Kuleimin-ced!!!
ReplyDeleteI really like Michalek. He'd have to be an idiot to come to Edmonton. And besides, Lowe can't close the deal on a UFA that any other team wants. The Oilers are pretty good at ratcheting up the price when they're the only bidders on broken down old parts.
ReplyDeleteFun game to watch so far.
ReplyDeleteJDD may have a weakness with high glove hand shots (bookiei!)
Steel curtain? No.
ReplyDeleteNow we're Bozak'd.
ReplyDeleteThere is something funny in hearing the phrase "Toronto's first line."
Bozak'd!!!!
ReplyDeletePeckham kind of dumb there.
JDD really committed early on the 2nd goal.
ReplyDeletePeckham fell asleep.
Agreed. I've hated Cooke since his time with the Canucks. Good on them for letting him go for all the reasons that Cherry is talking about.
ReplyDeleteDon Cherry just went epic on Matt Cooke... that was amazing.
ReplyDeleteChorney sucks. A lot.
And I've never seen anyone beat 6'4" JDD high glove before. Nope. Not once.
Those old clips from Cherry reminded me of when I used to call Cooke Matt "The Knee" Cooke.
ReplyDeleteI know it's for the greater good but something feels wrong about being drilled by the Leaves on HNIC doesn't it?
And no one can feel good about seeing The Emperor With No Clothes or the Real GM trying to look studious up in the owner's box.
What a pitiful franchise.
Fuck yeah, our house just sold!
ReplyDeleteNext Thursday: Pitt @ Boston
ReplyDeleteI bet Cooke turtles
All that was missing from that segment was Cherry to scream "GET OFF MY LAWN" at the end of it...
ReplyDeleteCogs shooting like it's 08/09
ReplyDeleteI think I have seen almost every game Cogliano has played and I'm convinced. That he's a slightly bigger, slightly better version of Ralph Intranuovo.
ReplyDeleteI think its best to trade him now while he still has cache.
That wasn't a metaphor, by the way. The conditions just came off of the offer we accepted.
ReplyDeleteThank god. Selling a house is an awful, awful time and I can't recommend it to anyone. >=(
Woodguy: Amazing reference. When I saw him at the WJC's he came over the line, checked up and circled EXACTLY like Ralph.
ReplyDeleteMarchant with hands sounded better, though. :-)
Nice shot by Cogs there. He used to do that more often. This year that shot goes wide and leaves the zone more often than not.
ReplyDeleteRiley Nash with an assist already tonight. Can we assume one of Vande Velde, Nash or Hartikainen will help somday?
ReplyDelete3-1 Toronto. Kevin Lowe with the Joe Paterno glasses.
Chorney is playing for the Leafs. Seriously.
ReplyDeleteI love how they showed Tweedles Dum and Dee struggling with their crosswords after that goal.
ReplyDeleteGod is JDD bad.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, he must have the worst glove hand in the league.
ReplyDeleteGo Oilers!
ReplyDeleteNice shot, but Wow, he gave him half the net. JDD must actually be 5ft 10in
ReplyDeleteand there's another.
1. Trade Chorney for a draft pick
ReplyDelete2. Trade JDD for a draft pick
3. Trade Cogliano to Toronto for a second round pick.
5-1 now. I will sleep like a baby tonight.
Can Kessel get to 40 goals tonight?
ReplyDeleteWoot!!! Eat it.
ReplyDeleteThe Oilers have saved some of their skunkiest games for HNIC this year.
Maximize the embarrassment. Lowe built this club.
I bet Bruce is crying in his foam finger tonight ;)
ReplyDeleteWhoever it is that thinks JDD can be a starter in this league needs to be fired. Immediately.
ReplyDeleteHe constantly over commits and has one of the worst glove hands in the league.
He's definitely helping the embarrassment though.
Define nadir.
ReplyDeleteYou go JDD. I'd be losing it in front of this D as well.
ReplyDeleteJDD could save himself a lot of frustration if he learned to not completely over commit all the time.
ReplyDeleteWayne Primeuu with the goal line sneak. He intentionally carried it across the line like a fullback with holding the football in his belly.
ReplyDeleteDefine nadir.
ReplyDeleteI hope it's next year, but I don't put anything past mgmt.
This is embarrassing even for the Oilers.
ReplyDeleteI'm horrified of the contract we're going to give Gilbert Brule.
ReplyDeleteThere's no reason to be upset about tonight, this is poetic justice.
ReplyDeleteJust tuned in to see that Toronto's up 5-2. So in a way... we're winning? :)
ReplyDeleteOh JDD, wakey-wakey
ReplyDeleteSchitzo - congratulations! Selling a house is stressful at the best of times.
ReplyDeleteCan someone tell me how Penner got an A?
ReplyDeleteThat's pretty silly.
Wow, this does look pretty mickey mouse tonight. Gagner and Brule both flubbing with the puck.
ReplyDeleteWhen's the last time a team took a too many men penalty while short handed?
ReplyDeleteBefore tonight.
I'm horrified of the contract we're going to give Gilbert Brule.
ReplyDeleteNo kidding. He can shoot, but not much else. Those types are only useful if you can keep them cheap.
Well that pretty much clinches the fall.
ReplyDelete48% Stu picks our star.
52% We get sloppy seconds.
No kidding. He can shoot, but not much else.
ReplyDeleteIn what sense?
It's hard to evaluate the guy when he's playing on a team like this and is 8th/9th on TOI.
I keep him over Cogliano, that's for sure.
Can someone tell me how Penner got an A?
ReplyDeleteNo Moreau, no Hemsky, no Souray, no Staios.
L.T.,
ReplyDeleteWhat we all wouldn't give for a Marchant with hands.
If this kid couldn't get dzone coverage with 2 years of MacT....
I'm totally okay with waiving JDD at any point.
ReplyDeleteHe'll clear and if he doesn't, it's no big loss.
Brule sure is useless.
ReplyDeleteBruce: He isn't useless, but he's a one-trick pony. Well two-trick because he hits.
ReplyDeleteThis is exactly the type of player you don't overpay for.
Nash with another assist. 27gp, 11-21-32.
ReplyDeleteWhere does a guy like 67 play in terms of matching up? If you didn't have to pay him too much then he can probably play on a team where the #1 offensive line plus a checking line plays the top six toughs; then for 41 games a year 67 gets to play against the other team's third line.
ReplyDeleteBut outside of that would you trust him? And does he become a millstone as soon as he makes 2 mill?
I have to admit I have no idea how he fits into a top nine unless he doesn't have to play against anyone.
Islanders up 4-2. That will take them to 53 points, a full 14 points up.
ReplyDeleteAssuming they don't win a game for the rest of the year, can the Oilers even do better than 7-7 in the final 14? With a 6:8 home road split, in which the home games consist of Detroit, Vancouver, SJ, Anaheim, Minnesota, and Colorado?
Not sure which team should be cheered for in tomorrow's TOR @ NYI game.
He leads the team (30+ GP) in goals per 60 and points per 60. That's two tricks already. Plus he hits. Hmmm.
ReplyDeleteTo me Brule's one of the few reasons for optimism on the big club this year.
@ Lowetide
ReplyDeleteSo how much is too much, or rather, how much is just enough?
Brule reminds me of Torres his first couple seasons.
ReplyDeleteThe 'sphere were pretty anti-raffi at the time.
The 'sphere fell in love with him a couple seasons later.
I suspect Brule will develop into a player that gets the Raffi respect within a couple seasons.
The Nash kid has really come on offensively since that injury.
ReplyDeleteTurning pro this off-season would be mutually benefiting for both himself and the Oilers
Chappy: For Brule? I'd be happy enough if they flushed Nilsson and gave Brule his contract (2M). Although it would be a little too much if he can score 20 a season then it is all good.
ReplyDeleteBut he'll get paid.
Knee on knee by Phaneuf. Fucking prick.
ReplyDeleteI liked Torres from the start. Honest. Still like him.
ReplyDeleteChappy: For Brule? I'd be happy enough if they flushed Nilsson and gave Brule his contract (2M). Although it would be a little too much if he can score 20 a season then it is all good.
ReplyDeleteBut he'll get paid.
It will be interesting to see what the Oilers do this year with him. Do they give him a 1 year deal at a lower salary or do they like him enough to lock him up 3 years as they did with Nilsson.
Thanks Icecastles.
ReplyDeleteI like Peckham, he's the heir to Matt Greene. He'd better be funny.
And I don't think that even the Islanders can go 0-fer to end the season.
I guessed over 2M here:
ReplyDeletehttp://lowetide.blogspot.com/2010/03/cipering.htm
I think 1.9M would be a dream.
I don't see the Raffi/67 comp because I see 67 with a lot more O upside and it's been since Guerin since we ran a slot play on the PP but I think 67 could do a job for us in that role.
ReplyDeleteAnd while I'm not sure how long it took until we could trust Raffi to play top six tough min and keep his head above water I don't see 67 with the same commitment to physicality that Raffi could bring.
Yeah I've never had a problem with Torres either.
ReplyDeleteBrule certainly does some things well - nice release, has decent wheels, and he hits (whatever that is worth). But he strikes me as a guy that doesn't read the game well. I think his GA stats and his numbers without Penner attest to these things.
Nice PP goal there. Good puck movement and a good shot and great tip from Penner.
ReplyDeleteBrule has 3 years of RFA eligibility left, right?
ReplyDeleteI'll guess he gets a 2 year deal in the $2,000,000ish range for cap hit.
Those 4 looked good out there: Nilson, Penner, Whitney, Gags
ReplyDeleteWhitney looks particularily calm on the PP point.
Credit to Peckham for jumping Phaneuf quickly. He has looked like a dunce on at least two goals, but he started to redeem himself there.
ReplyDelete... but I'm worried the Oilers try and hit a homer with him and go long-term for something like $12,000,000 / 4 years.
ReplyDeleteBrule has done nothing to deserve anything more than a qualifying offer with the minimum10% raise.
ReplyDeleteIf you sign him to a three year deal, it takes him to UFA. If you sign him to a two-year deal, and he opts for arbitration, he is a UFA in three years.
One year deal only.
Anything else is dumb contract management.
Fifteen years, 40 million.
ReplyDeleteBook it.
I agree with lowballing Brule on a one-year deal, but I like him just fine.
ReplyDeleteI wish they'd play Dubnyk for 5 games in a row. Maybe he's nothing, but I still think he'll be a better player than Deslauriers.
ReplyDeleteI'm watching Gtown in the Big East final and taping the third period so who did Phaneuf knee?
ReplyDeleteBTW, I'm not sure what site you guys used to watch live sports on TV but I'd usually athde.net but I found this site the other day and I find the quality to be way better.
http://www.fromsport.com/c-6.html
Wow... Stahlberg is a douche.
ReplyDeleteThat must have been historic in some way.
ReplyDeleteA good old-fashioned 3 on 0 to keep things interesting.
ReplyDeleteA three man breakaway? Unreal bench coaching.
ReplyDeleteBuchberger showing Quinn a three on oh. For those who didn't see the Washington Capitals 74-75 this is somewhat similar.
ReplyDeleteWell holy hell. 3 on 0. DD vs the Leafs.
ReplyDeleteWorst line changes in the league, even with MacT.
Most people say that's on the coach.
Believe it or not, Buffalo gave up a 3-on-none already this year.
ReplyDeleteI think more amazing than the fact it was a 3-0 is that there wasn't a single pass made by Toronto.
ReplyDeleteThat's horribly written but there's no edit button.
ReplyDeleteOh well.
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ReplyDeleteLT: there's a very handsome and kind man who's in no way petty and miserable and he believes in JDD so that's good enough for me.
ReplyDeleteEthan Moreau is our secret weapon is assuring we finish in last place....
ReplyDeleteAh...the Moreau penalty in the final minutes is the icing on the cake.
ReplyDeleteHall or Seguin...we can start getting excited.
How has Brule done nothing to get more than the qualifying offer minimum? Prorated over 82 games he's having a 20 goal, 46 point season. If he hadn't missed time due to illness he'd be fighting with the Golden Boy Samwise for second most points on the team.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, he's a player who is in transition and is currently establishing his level of play in the league. Management and the player will both ask for a one-year deal to see what he can do in back-to-back seasons.
If he hits 50 points the next season he's probably looking at a 3.0 million contract on a multiyear deal.
-----
Moreau takes the one bad, late penalty for his return debut. That's consistency right there.
El Capitan is back! now this game is complete.
ReplyDeleteI want this DJ at Edmonton...some Rage against the machine to kick off a 5on3...hell yeah.
ReplyDeleteCan somebody please do an analysis of all the penalties that 18 has taken this season? I'd love to see how many come in the last 10 mins of a game.
ReplyDeleteIf I'm Tambellini, I use burrows as as a ceiling and offer Brule no more than 4 years at 1.75M/year.
ReplyDeleteOh look, thecaptainethanmoreau puts his team down 3 on 5. If the Oilers can't get rid of this phudu by the summer, and have intentions to win games next year Oklahoma would appear as the only logical destination. No?
I want this DJ at Edmonton...some Rage against the machine to kick off a 5on3...hell yeah.
ReplyDeleteIf you're fourteen.
Dennis: That's gold right there. You forgot the upside-down exclamation mark right there.
ReplyDelete-----
I should also note, I don't think giving Brule a truckload of money is a necessarily good thing, but I think that's a reasonable view of how things could unfold.
Cogs pretty much speared that guy. They did him a favour there.
ReplyDeleteDanny: I never said I loved him like a son, just that I've never had a problem with him. I'm sure I've criticized him many times, but that goes for a lot of Oilers - especially the young ones who don't know what they're doing.
Eberle to play for Team Canada at the World's?
ReplyDeleteHard to not love that.
Ice...14? You clearly don't share the same level of respect for Rage Against as I do. They are a fine band IMO.
ReplyDeleteIf I would have celebrated a Run DMC track I would have accepted your insult far easier.
LT: Oh I think you do sir. I think you do.
ReplyDeleteThe more I think about it the more I think that Moreau really embodies the GM as someone who used to be useful but who's now just living on reputation.
Dennis: Seriously? I've suggested Deslauriers is a good goalie? You've lost me here.
ReplyDeleteHa. That's a nice exchange there you guys.
ReplyDeleteI think Dennis is referring to Brownlee but I'm getting into the rum and getting ready to go out, so hell if I know.
ReplyDeleteI like that we have a few guys in Johnson and Peckham who can turn the temperature up...
RQ said "especially the young ones who don't know what they're doing."
ReplyDeleteThats how I see Brule I guess.
Didnt mean to single you out, just the first 'sphere guy post i found that jived with how I remember Torres being on shaky legs amongst the group think.
Somehow i think it would be poetic justice if we scored 2 goals on this late PP, lost 6-5 and DD would get tagged with the loss.
ReplyDeleteThat shot Brule just took is exactly why I don't rate him... just doesn't have the best hockey sense.
ReplyDeleteIf he was about 5" taller I think he could get away with it, but with his height he has to be thinking ahead of people.
Nice goal for Johnson... he actually looks pretty useful.
6-4. PJO cringes.
ReplyDeleteLook out Leaves and Islanders, here we come. Looks like we're going to be picking 4th.
Horcoff has been playing out a nice little string of games. Maybe he's getting healthy or his confidence back?
ReplyDeleteIt would go a long way to being a better team next season if he found his game again, especially on a top line of Penner-Horcoff-Hemsky again.
Horcoff has been playing out a nice little string of games. Maybe he's getting healthy or his confidence back?
ReplyDeleteI'd guess both... plus he's not dragging JFJ around the ice anymore.
Well that anthem guy was freaky.
ReplyDeleteAlot happening in that game. Alot of bad happening.
Next?
I'd rather watch the Falcons once Eberle gets his demotion
Great night for Burke and Lowe. 30 and 29th place teams. How fitting.
ReplyDeleteHuge win for the Oilers tonight -- that's just an immensely satisfying result for both teams.
ReplyDelete6-4. PJO cringes.
ReplyDeleteI did. Ever so slightly.
Glad they won today, but losing to both Minnesota and Columbus on Monday and Tuesday would allow me to breathe a bit more easily.
Eberle scores 50. Nice.
ReplyDeleteDid that Fat Bastard that sings the anthem for the Canucks get dressed in the dark?
ReplyDeleteThe Oilers have had a lot of luck in the past few years.
ReplyDeleteOEL, Cowan, Glennie all picked early on to allow the Oilers to take MPS. Losing all of Hemsky/Souray/Khabibulin to injuries which has allowed the Oilers a very rare opportunity to draft a franchise players.
With the above mentioned players expected back next year, I'm not so sure they'll be as bad next year. I just hope they sign Jagr (and other vets akin to Phoenix 2009), acquire a quality backup like Auld next year and start winning some hockey games.
Eberle scores 50
ReplyDeleteWell that should sew up the CHL player of the year award. Congrats Ebs!
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ReplyDeleteIf I'm Tambellini, I use burrows as as a ceiling and offer Brule no more than 4 years at 1.75M/year.
ReplyDeleteIt would be nice to have Brule around for a while to see if he develops some more, at a reasonable dollar figure, but why does it have to be for four years? Haven't enough poor longterm contracts been handed out already.
Can someone tell me how Penner got an A?
ReplyDeleteThat's pretty silly.
He finished a 48 oz steak in under 10 minutes.
With the Leafs playing well, I am predicting the NYI will finish 29th. Maybe they pick first this year.
ReplyDeleteCue the speculation that about whether Wang will deal the pick to the Oilers...maybe Boston will be more likely to trade the #3 pick?
At least Edmonton will pick top two.
//How has Brule done nothing to get more than the qualifying offer minimum? Prorated over 82 games he's having a 20 goal, 46 point season.//
ReplyDeleteBrule never plays anything remotely close to a full season, therefore he shouldn't be paid like he does.
When he demonstrates he can stay in the lineup for a full season, something he has not done in 4 seasons, they maybe he deserves to be paid for a full season.
He hasn't earned pro-rating of his stats, since he is always missing significant parts of the season.
That, and he's a defensive liability. Right now he really is no different than Robert Nilsson or Robbie Schremp...a non-difference maker who can play on bad hockey teams.
Until he improves his defense, he is useful only as a stop gap (a better one than Nilsson or Schremp), but still just a stop gap, until a real player is developed or signed.
Very serious question here:
ReplyDeleteHow does the lineup for tonight compare to
A.) All-time worst Oiler lineups
and
B.) Worst lineups of any team since the lockout?
I can't think of a worse Oiler team. That group that lost 20 in a row at least had a goaltender for most games. Certainly if we lost one more guy to injury and replaced the with an AHL'er, that would be the worst Oiler lineup ever, right?
I see to remember some bad teams, post lockout. Pittsburgh after Lemieux. And the Islanders on any given year. Still this has to be like top 10 of the crappiest lineups since the lockout, no?
Schitzo said:
ReplyDeleteHere's something I've been pondering. 2003 was a great draft year.
How much of this can be attributed to the fact that due to the lockout, some players were forced to spend their 20 year old season in the AHL?
Yeah, that's Dean Lombardi's theory. Coupled with the fact that they weren't all whining about it, due to the fact there was no NHL possibility that year.
Whitney and Gilbert at 27 min each. If we have to play games without one of them so that Chorney, Peckham, and Strudwick (sounds like a law firm)have to play more minutes...
ReplyDeleteDennis:
ReplyDeleteOn Brule, didn't he shoot just 1.5 or 2% his last year in CBJ? For a guy that doesn't do this year much besides finish, I'd be worried about spending money on him.
Plus, since Bure retired and Jagr went to Europe, I don't think I've ever seen a fucker consistently cherrypick on the strong side at the NHL level. This dude is a repeat offender. And he can't finish like Pavel or Jaromir. Maybe for spurts this year, but not long term.
The coaches must be doing their nut over it. Then again, look down the bench ... it's the "cheating for offense" dream team, for crying out loud. The HFerasts must watch these games fully erect, then after the fact; puzzle why the Oilers lose so often.
The HFerasts must watch these games fully erect, then after the fact; puzzle why the Oilers lose so often.
ReplyDeleteI just laughed so hard it led to a coughing fit. Well put.
OEL, Cowan, Glennie all picked early on to allow the Oilers to take MPS.
ReplyDeleteEckman-Larson was projected to go quite high. Cowen was projected top 5 with a bullet till his injury, and that's that only reason he fell to 9. Something of a gamble since you don't know when someone's knee blows out, but well within range.
Of that the only off the board pick in the top ten has to be Glennie, that's what allowed the Oil to get MPS. I'd also say Kadri was the next biggest risk/reward in the top 10.
I'm happy they have MPS, and if he ever develops the ability to cycle in the O zone to go along with his world class O off the rush I'd be even happier =).
Personally I think MPS and Lander are near equal in value to the Oil at this point. Lander might surprise a lot of people with his ability to score. Guy just gets it done, and before all is said and done might turn into a solid 2nd line centre. I think 3rd line centre as Lander's potential is selling his potential short ;).
I hope you're right PJO, and both MPS and Hall/Seguin turn into franchise players for the Oil, signed to cap friendly 6 million a season contracts to remain parts of a dynasty team =).
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ReplyDeleteYou know I don't think we're icing a great team from the goalie-out but if we're talking about worst lineups a lot of weight has to be given to that fact that we have absolutely shitty netminding.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to know the last time - and it's obviously nearly impossible to quantify - a team gave up so many goals because their goalies were deep or their glove hands were being picked upon.
It's been fucking unreal.
I know they iced two kids so they could find out if either of them could play and then also insure that we'd get a top five pick but I think this lineup kicks the ass of the '07 lineup that crawled down the stretch.
The netminding is fucking difference.
The HFerasts must watch these games fully erect, then after the fact; puzzle why the Oilers lose so often.
ReplyDeleteHahahaha
godot:
ReplyDeleteI don't really think his injury history will be a concern.
Just off the top of my head, chronic injuries didn't stop Souray, Spezza, Smyth, or Gaborik from getting paid. There could be examples of injury prone RFAs not getting what they should ordinarily be paid due to injuries, but I can't think of any right now.
In any case, Brule is so far coming off a season where he actually hasn't been hurt (knock on wood) so again, I don't know how much it will be a consideration in his negotiations. I'm even more doubtful that a bad flu will affect his contract.
In regards to his defense it certainly has been a concern for him as recently as last season, but aside from a few errant (albeit devastating) giveaways this year he's improved in that area quite a bit. At least in my opinion. His +/- is closer to the better end of the cluster despite being middle of the pack for quality of competition and teammates, so I think he's doing alright for now.
In any case, if he is indeed going to get the one-year deal followed by a multiyear deal which I suspect, I think he's certainly going to get more than the 800k+15% for the first year, and then on the multiyear contract I do think he'll get close to 3.0 million. Especially when we have a very comparable player currently on the roster in Patrick O'Sullivan who commanded 3.0 million on a multiyear deal after a 53 point campaign.