Tonight's game in Columbus gives us a chance to revisit a 2007 draft day debate. Many Oiler fans wanted the braintrust to select Voracek and others wanted Gagner. Some of us liked them both but were put off by the rest of draft day 2007.
Either way, we've been talking Gagner-Voracek for a long time. With the debate about 50-50 at the time, I suggested that it might take some time to declare a winner. It looks like we're going to be here awhile.
Courtesy hockey-reference.com here's a look at the NHL's 20-year olds this season and their current scoring results.
- Drew Doughty (LAK) 67gp, 13-38-51 (.761)
- Jakub Voracek (CBS) 68gp, 11-29-40 (.588)
- Sam Gagner (EDM) 63gp, 15-24-39 (.619)
- James VanRiemsdyk (PHI) 64gp, 14-19-33 (.516)
- Brandon Sutter (CAR) 58gp, 17-16-33 (.569)
- Jamie Benn (DAL) 67gp,, 16-15-31 (.463)
Gagner leads in points-per-game but Voracek has the edge in 5x5/60 (1.94 to 1.60) so it is a pretty close race. I think the race is neck and neck and am still happy with the Gagner selection and his progress up to this point. The Edmonton Oilers have a lot of problems, but Sam Gagner isn't one of them.
And Jamie benn has turned into a good player. Plays physical, can score. Would love to get him from Dallas, but no chance that happens unless they trick Dallas into Souray for him,. Same with Columbus. Voracek for Souray? Pipe dream I know, but that would be a nice move that would make a lot of knowledgeable fans pretty happy I think.
ReplyDeleteLast summer we probably could have got Benn plus a nice slice of depth defence for Souray. This summer, maybe half a bag of pucks (if they've got a 5 mil cap hit). Sell them Lowe - its going to be the name of my new blog.
ReplyDeleteI would visit Sell them Lowe
ReplyDeleteIf the Jackets do shop Brassard or Voracek it will take more than Souray as you can be sure Burke will come knocking with Kaberle front and centre.
ReplyDeleteIsn't it about time Gagner went on his late season tear? Didn't he do some good things in his first 2 seasons in March/April?
ReplyDeleteWin or lose, it would be nice to see these kids get a little bit of confidence on the score sheet.
As for in goal, I'd like to see Dubnyk go the rest of the way.
Some questions for the wise folks around here:
ReplyDelete1 - Who's turn is it to get the loss tonight, since both DD and ADD played on Saturday?
2 - How many more players can we end up injuring before the end of the season?
3 - Who told horcoff that he was allowed to play hockey without Hemsky?
4 - If the goal is to lose next season too, is keeping cogliano as a centre a bad plan?
5 - If the Oilers demote Ethan to the falcons before the end of the year, can they leave him there when the rest of the team moves to Oklahoma City?
Brownlee won't let the Gilbert to Columbus rumors go, even after the deadline.
ReplyDeleteNow that 71,37, and 24 are elsewhere I can't see it, but he and Stauffer are well connected to Howson, so who knows.
Ultimate irony if Hedja is a part of the deal if it actually happens.
Columbus is a great example on how poor play can make coaches and management look bad.
Last year they were all smart, and CBJ makes the playoffs.
This year Mason has a bad year and Hitchcock loses his job, and Howson doesn't look so smart.
Go Oilers!
*clap,clap*
I think a crucial area of Gagner's game that will determine his role going forward will be his faceoff proficiency.
ReplyDelete07-08: 41.8% on 299 taken
08-09: 42% on 690 taken
09-10: 48.3% on 652 taken
It appears he's headed in the right direction. If he can take that next step forward into "reliable faceoff man" territory (say 51% to 54%), he solves a lot of problems on this team.
Seeing he's all of 20 years old, there's no reason to believe he won't take that next step.
Phil: Nice job posting the FO stats and we can see 89 treading water in his second season and then making a nice jump between Y2 and Y3 so as you point out now he has to get close to 55%.
ReplyDeleteI think the kid's gonna be a 60-65 point and plus player; he may even get into the 75 point strata; though I know I should be doing the PPG calculation because health is promised to no man.
I think all things begin to look better when we get that checking centre and 89 gets to play against the other team's third line; that's provided 10 stays healthy and he's showing a bit of a nice finish to the season the last few games.
Regarding the 77 rumors I don't believe 41 will be much better next year so we should at least start next year with 6-77 as puckmovers and as much as I like Hejda - who I know got off to an awful start and I haven't looked at the underlying numbers - I don't want to go back to when we couldn't make a pass out of our own end.
I also think the Oilers could win in regulation tonight if both Nash and Huselsis miss tonight's game and that DD gets the start after the coils that Jeff "Take The Over" Deslauries laid down in his last two starts.
Jordan: All waiver claims are reset sometime in the summer. That means that if the Oilers sent Moreau to the AHL now he would revert to the big league roster at some point this summer without passing through re-entry waivers. Nothing from stopping the team from waiving him again next season though.
ReplyDeleteJordan: Only now got the joke in your reference. My mistake. Mornings have always been cruel to me.
ReplyDeleteBrownlee won't let the Gilbert to Columbus
ReplyDeleteBrownlee has been trading Gilbert 3 times a month ever since the contract was signed.
Learn to live with it, I have.
Did you hear last week when Brownlee was failing that test the NFL gives to the potential draftees?
1. Finish the sequenrce 5, 10, 20, 40, __
Brownlee said 60
2. Two words Candor & Condor
Do they a] mean the same thing, b]mean opposite things, c] have no relation to each other?
Brownlee said C, which is correct. Then he said "Candor is honesty, while a Condor is a snake."
Woodguy: Goaltending can definitely hide a lot about a team.
ReplyDeleteDennis: Hejda didn't have an awful start, he had an awful return from an injury. He was doing okay before he got hurt. Once he came back his season went to shit.
"Candor is honesty, while a Condor is a snake."
ReplyDeleteThe only possible defence is if Brownlee is a massive Trekie...
Wentlian Condor snake. If you know what that is without looking it up, you are as big a nerd as I am.
I see the league is having a hearing on the Ovechkin hit?
ReplyDeleteThis is the problem with where they're heading on the hitting rules. Ovechkin hits from the side, Campbell throttles into the boards the wrong way due to his own action, and not only is #8 booted, but he might get suspended. In this case, it actually doesn't matter that Campbell is hurt, he shouldn't have been.
When it became acceptable to be in the position Campbell was when you know there's a forechecker on you, I just don't know. I suppose people in minor hockey started getting that stupid when I played, but I cannot recall when it came to the NHL.
Hitting from behind is bad. Trying to position yourself so that someone won't hit you from behind and instead back off in order to get a hockey advantage is worse.
//4 - If the goal is to lose next season too, is keeping cogliano as a centre a bad plan?//
ReplyDeleteI think Cogliano is being showcased for a summer trade.
1) They are letting him play centre, to make him happy.
2) They are playing him with their two best scoring wingers.
I'm hoping we can get Dubinsky for him in a trade or larger trade with the Rangers.
LMHF:
ReplyDeleteOvechkin's a repeat offender. Cooke and Downie aren't.
Apparently.
ReplyDeleteHitting from behind is bad. Trying to position yourself so that someone won't hit you from behind and instead back off in order to get a hockey advantage is worse.
Strongly seconded.
I hope the NHL is wary of players showing their numbers to avoid getting hit and hopefully is careful about the calls they make as far as players putting themselves in vulnerable positions to protect the puck when they implement their new rule about head shots next season.
I agree that Campbell contributed to his own misfortune. He was trying to make a play that was impossible under the circumstances. Ovechkin didn't anticipate that Campbell would try to do something so stupid.
ReplyDeleteCampbell was like a driver brake-testing the tailgater behind him, which is an awfully dangerous thing to do.
Gagner is guaranateed to be at least a good 2nd line option, or passable first liner for a long time.
ReplyDeleteThe trouble is, as we all see I think, that he's just a half step too slow. If he can find even a little more speed, he'll be an excellent 1st line option for a decade.
IMO, anyway.
Not to sure on Voracek. I do think that, in general, when judging players of roughly equal worth, a center has more value than a winger, and that gives Gagner the edge. That also makes Seguin sound like the better pick, IMO.
There was a time when every defencemen would have angled that play and been ready for the hit. Likely being able to avoid it at some level and probably come away with the puck; maybe a bruise as well, but still having the puck.
ReplyDeleteNow they barrel in head-first. You almost expect if from the young ones, but not from a Brian Campbell. Something's really got to change in terms of these guys thinking it is all on the hitter.
In this situation, unlike some others, Ovechkin didn't even hit the guy from behind, but Campbell is positioned such that if touched at all he could wind up face-first. That's idiocy!
Mc79 has a wonderful post today. I'm not sure the Brain Trust can figure it out, however.
ReplyDeleteThere are some players out there who deliberately turn their back to draw the penalty. I saw altogether too much of that when coaching in minor hockey. I remember one little punk in particular who turned just as our guy got to him and left him nothing to do but hit him in the stop sign. Our guy got 5 and a game and this little punk skated by our bench grinning and trash talking the whole way and I was standing their fighting my emotions that said you're lucky you got up you little bastard and some day you won't and it won't matter a helluva lot if your team scores on the powerplay or not. To me that is a major form of diving and should be treated as such ... a major penalty and a game misconduct for deliberately turning your back to a hit.
ReplyDeleteHard to legislate "stupid" out of the game, I guess, but I can tell you every player on our team wanted to kill that little fucker for the rest of that game.
For me, what is interesting about the Gagner draft was the development of Kyle Turris. He was considered a dark horse for the #1 pick overall, with rumours that the Oilers were circling in for a trade with Philly for that pick. I know that kids develop at different rates but he has to be considered well behind the rest of the pack at this point.
ReplyDeleteThe other interesting point about that draft is that Oilers would have been sitting where the Blackhawks were if they didn't win the last game of the season against the Flames (5th). Then we would be having a bigger debate than Gagner vs Vorack, it would be Turris (who we probably would have taken) vs Kane .
The other interesting point about that draft is that Oilers would have been sitting where the Blackhawks were if they didn't win the last game of the season against the Flames (5th).
ReplyDeleteWe would have leapfrogged both Chicago and Washington and finished fourth. Washington would have been in 5th and won the lottery.
just to dissent a little... I don't see campbell turning away on that play. he reverses the puck and ov pushes then rides him into the boards. not dirty like the cooke or downey shenanigans but not exactly a sportsmanlike play. if there was a time the d would have by default taken it up the boards there was also a time when players wouldn't shove each other 4-5 feet from the boards.
ReplyDeleteWhile I think Voracek brings some nice things we lack (Size and scoring together) I'm not unhappy about Gagner or his learning curve. Organizationally, it likely would have made the team much better to not have an extra minute-man, we never had a chance to draft Voracek anyways. So its a moot point from my perspective.
ReplyDeleteOn that note though, I've been looking over some of the larger prospects the last little while, in expectation of the perceived "need for size" on the roster. Some of the players with upside and size, I can see the Oilers targetting, but many of the best will likely go in the first round. Asumming Nino (who I'd suggest is the highest end of size and skill in this years draft) goes 3-5, the list I see after that looks like:
Q. Howden (LW - Moose Jaw WHL)
R. Johansen (C - Portland WHL)
B. Ross (LW - Portland WHL)
R. Martindale (C - Ottawa OHL)
I. Telegin (C - Saginaw OHL)
B. Connolly (RW - Prince George WHL)
Some later round picks might include:
A. Watson (C - Peterborough OHL)
J. Messier (LW - Tri City WHL)
S. Shipley (C - Owen Sound OHL)
C. Hamilton (LW - Saskatoon WHL)
J. McFarland (C - Sudbury OHL)
It's very interesting to look at some of these young men. A few have some tremendous upside, but could fall a ways due to injury. I think there is a lot of potential here though, and expect Stu will provide some quality depth in this draft year. If we have a shot at Connolly with our second or manage to acquire another first somehow I think there could be some really solid acquisitions to de-shrimp our team well into the future.
Tencer twits...
ReplyDeleteHearing that Jordan Eberle will be heading for Springfield as early as tomorrow.
we never had a chance to draft Voracek anyways. So its a moot point from my perspective.
ReplyDelete?
Voracek went 7th to Columbus. After Alzner went at #5 the decision was literally between Gagner and Voracek.
Hitting from behind is bad. Trying to position yourself so that someone won't hit you from behind and instead back off in order to get a hockey advantage is worse.
ReplyDeleteThirded. I think a possible solution here could be akin to that used for diving penalties. If a player is cross-checked, but contributed to it by backing away, do the following:
1)Still give the hitt-er a penalty (2min, 5min, whatever).
2) Give the hitt-ee a 10 min misconduct (call it unsportsmanlike, but basically a "you go sit in the box for a while and think about why you're too stupid to be on the ice"). This would be discretionairy on the ref's part.
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ReplyDeleteAhem.
ReplyDeleteBruce is absolutely right about the 'turn away and take the hit on your back' business. And I agree in general about players needing to take some responsibility for their own safety, in general I think I take a pretty lenient POV on the matter - I thing the Kitchener Ranger incident was far overblown, it was an occasion where he hit the glass in just such a way that the helmet came flying off. Regrettable, yes. Culpable, I'm not so sure. Shit does happen.
But Ovechkin on Campbell? Sorry, no - he did not turn his back to get a hit that would draw a penalty, they were travelling in the same direction, and in fact as LMHF says, he actually gets shoved not in the back but from the side. Nine times out of ten this play is closer to the end board, and 8 just rides him up into it. Campbell does not try to do anything foolish either, he catches up to the puck and just dishes it up the board, out of the way and continues his pathto turn and come up the other side. If Ovie's coming from the opposite side and can't stop, no problem. But he has to be smart enough to lay off a guy travelling at speed 6' from the end of the rink, who's not carrying a puck. Anything less is, and was, just careless disregard for the consequences. Not deliberate by any means, not an intent to injure like Cooke's or anything like that. But careless, dangerous, unnecessary to the play, clearly avoidable. In other words, negligent.
I don't know how we can get in a dither about Iginla on Souray and not see this is pretty much a parallel. It's not dirty, but it's obviously dangerous and therefor kind of a dumb thing to do.
How Cooke gets out of a suspension leaves me dumbfounded - with 'Intent to injure' in the rulebook i don't know why they felt the need to quibble over shoulders vs. elbows. That's just the NHL caught in their labrynth of defending neanderthal for so long they've no place to go without contradicting themselves again. So they blame the rule book and basically turtled. Deserve every embarassment that comes their way for that one.
@godot10
ReplyDeleteI think so too, that same play happens 10 times a game at least but usually the guy is paying attention.
If we have a shot at Connolly with our second or manage to acquire another first somehow I think there could be some really solid acquisitions to de-shrimp our team well into the future.
ReplyDeleteConnolly will not drop to the 2nd. In fact I'd be very surprised if he lasts past the top 10.
I don't know if the Oil have much they'd be willing to part with for another top 10 pick, and if they get one I'd be partial to Kabanov myself. If they manage to get top 5 or 6 (even less likely) then the great Swiss hope is another attractive piece.
Kabanov and Galiev are definitely two players of interest in this draft that may drop due to injury and being Russian. One can be had late top ten, the other anywhere from the late 1st round onward.
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ReplyDelete@ Schitzo
ReplyDeleteGood call - for some reason I had The Oilers drafting 7th and Columbus Drafting 6th, with Columbus selecting Voracek instead of Gagner...
I'll have to stop making assumptions that what I remember happening is what actually happened. :P
@ Uni
Maybe I'm just more sceptical because of the Oilers recent experience with injuries and their effects on prospects, but considering what Connolly went through, I'd have thought teams would be less likely to take him. Hip injuries are a big deal, and while not as likely to be cronic like spinal or concussion injuries... It just seems to me with a lot of other good talent out there, Conolly would be more likely to fall. Maybe not to the 30s, but I'd be very surprised to see him go before 15.
Gagner did seem to be hitting his annual second-half surge (something like 13 points in 16 games?) but his knee injury and the Olympic break kind of derailed it. Hopefully he can pick it up again. Anyone think he has a chance at the World Championships?
ReplyDeleteHave the Oilers ever had any success with drafting a Russian? Or someone from the Q, ignoring Hemsky?
ReplyDeleteFor solid, safe picks I think they should stick to the O and the Dub. Our European scouts have not done us any big favors since Tikkanen.
I probably wasn't clear enough in stating that in no way do I think Campbell was trying to draw a penalty like that punk kid and all too many others like him. I do however think he made a stupid play, as did Ovechkin. Moreover I think Campbell's skate rutted out which caused the clumsiness of his fall. Sucks for me since I have him in my pool.
ReplyDeleteCampbell skates with the confidence that he can outmanouevre anybody, especially in his own end, and that Ovechkin caught him and laid him out like that speaks to OV's speed and strength. Like most big guys he's (even) faster than he appears, and he can be all over a defender in a heartbeat. Indeed the guy has the entire package and already ranks near the top of my personal charts of greatest power forwards I've ever seen, gradually closing in on Mister Hockey. (Only 20 more seasons to go ... :)
Such players are often near the edge and occasionally cross it, whether through intent or recklessness or the vast grey ocean in between.
My best guess in this case is that since Colin Campbell is so keen on following precedent*, that OV will get the same 4 games Lapierre got.
( * The precedent that precedes all others being "the NHL's policy has always been to have our heads up our asses, and we will continue to blindly follow that policy.")
Voracek vs Gagner
ReplyDelete...both are good players who are tracking well but it would be awful nice to have a big young RW with some ES scoring touch on the roister now in place of another young small center.
Wanted Voracek then...would still take him now.
It's fun sometimes to go back to what we thought and see where we were right and wrong:
ReplyDeleteThe Oilers passed on Alexei Cherepanov and Angelo Esposito by taking Plante and THAT imo will end up being the most often quoted "mistake" from Kevin Prendergast this draft.
I don't know what to say here that won't come off as an insensitive joke about poor Cherepanov, but suffice to say, we come out clear winners in that comparison. (For that matter, most of the names mentioned early in the comments haven't been overwhelmingly better than Plante thus far.)
All we've heard about this draft is that the picks from 15-50 are interchangeable and it seems to me that if you're going to trade up it should be for a Mikael Backlund or David Perron...Edmonton gave up 30 and 36 for the chance at a guy who should have been available at 36 [Riley Nash].
Though when you put it like that, never mind. You always second-guess a draft, but man, I'd have been happy with Backlund or Perron. Seems like Nash might pan out, but still.
Have the Oilers ever had any success with drafting a Russian? Or someone from the Q, ignoring Hemsky?
They did grab one kid out of the Q, captain of the Ramparts, back in '79, who turned out okay.
As for the Ovechkin hit, I don't understand what the hell 3/4 of you are talking about. What is it with everyone acting like boarding isn't a penalty anymore unless it's from behind? I watched the replay a few times: it was a dangerous play, and I have no problem with five and a game for it. Ovechkin isn't Maxim Lapierre by reputation (though maybe he should be at this point) or by skill (of which there is no question), which means he won't get four -- more like one or two -- but that doesn't make it less dangerous.
Speaking of Brownlee the other day I had a post banned at ON because while responding to a JW topic I asked how many second assists Gilbert had;)
ReplyDeleteAs for the Ovechkin hit, I don't understand what the hell 3/4 of you are talking about. What is it with everyone acting like boarding isn't a penalty anymore unless it's from behind? I watched the replay a few times: it was a dangerous play, and I have no problem with five and a game for it.
ReplyDeleteSeconded. Well said.
Just saw the hit, that was totally boarding and deserves a penalty and additional punishment.
ReplyDeleteI would like to recommend banishment to the the 30th place team in the league for 2 seasons with salary to be paid by the Caps.
That will teach him!
A bit off topic, but this is the best place I can think to ask. I'm interested in learning to watch hockey more like a coach does - understanding systems, positional play etc in more depth. Through various great blogs like this I've learned a lot about things like matchups, team building etc, but can anyone suggest any methods of learning about the more direct, on-ice stuff?
ReplyDeleteRegarding the draft this year. Curtis Hamilton is someone I can give a little input into seeing as I've seen him play about 50 games.
ReplyDeleteI think he would have been a mid first rounder had his season not been derailed by breaking his collar bone twice.
Collar bones are sketchy. He broke it in a different place the second time in the first game of his return from the first break.
Luckily he is supposed to be back for the playoffs so interested teams can get one last look at him.
If the guys the Oilers are targeting with their second picks are gone then he might be a steal, but I wouldn't fault them for shying away either.
Something tells me Weal might end up an Oiler.
A bit off topic, but this is the best place I can think to ask. I'm interested in learning to watch hockey more like a coach does - understanding systems, positional play etc in more depth. Through various great blogs like this I've learned a lot about things like matchups, team building etc, but can anyone suggest any methods of learning about the more direct, on-ice stuff?
ReplyDeleteI'm not really helping you here but I find it hard to watch the game as a coach if I'm watching on the tv as you don't really see the system, line matches, and what players are trying to do positionally.
Going to some junior or university games can help a fan understand the coaching aspect of the game as you get a full view of the ice and what coaches are trying to do.
GMB - You have to attend games, there's simply no way to appreciate all that is going on through the camera; even with new tech in play.
ReplyDeleteThanks for both replies - I'm in Scotland, which makes it hard! I grew up watching my local team play regularly, but I guess as a kid I didn't pick up on the more intricate parts of the game. A new team is starting locally next season, which is part of the reason I'm keen to learn more, although it's something I've been meaning to make more of an effort with for a while anyway.
ReplyDeleteNo Nash again tonight for CBJ so if we get anything close to decent netminding I think we'll win this one.
ReplyDeleteEberle's headed to Springfield tomorrow. Millard posts...
ReplyDeleteI'm told Hockey Canada officials will monitor his play and that he could receive an invite to play for Canada at the World Hockey Championship.
GMB,
ReplyDeleteIf you want to really understand hockey you need to watch a lot of hockey live at a lot of levels.
However, that won't help if you don't have a rubric for understanding the game, so what I use when teaching coaches is two great books by Mike Smith. In case you don't know he had a rather erratic career which included being GM of the Winnipeg Jets, de facto GM or the Maple Leafs and GM of the Chicago Blackhawks. He has a under graduate degree in the social sciences and a PhD in Political Science.
Bottom line, in The Hockey Playbook and Teaching Hockey Systems, he exposes every strategy any coach will ever need. They are books that would enrich any fans appreciation of the game.
If you ever get the chance a good college level course in coaching theory as well as coaching hockey and/or the National Coaching Certification program here in Canada, both the general and the hockey specific are also good places to begin. Hockey coaching is kind of like playing the Cello, it is actually really simple to learn and almost impossible to do well.
uni: Connolly has missed the entire season with two separate but severe injuries with potential consequences for his long-term viability as a professional athlete. I don't think he falls into the 30s either, but I could definitely see him falling past 15.
ReplyDeleteDubnyk having a nice start. I know that OTC has this "win and you get another game" thing going but it might be nice to see this guy play for a week or so.
ReplyDeleteConnolly is going to fall pretty far. He's hurt both hips and that stuff is chronic.
ReplyDeleteAn open letter to Daryl Katz,
ReplyDeleteDear Daryl,
I'm sure you have insane fans telling you how to fix the Oilers all the time. If I was in your shoes I'd find that a bit presumptive and annoying. Me, I wouldn't dream of telling you how to fix the on ice product. Instead here are a few simple ideas for making your organization better.
1. Propose a challenge to your management team. Each has to figure out (on their own) a way to reduce injuries amongst the Oilers. Everybody gets to vote (anonymously) on all the ideas. Best idea gets implemented.
2. In fact go further, become a league leader in reducing injuries. Make it job one. Everybody has to read "The Human Factor" by Kim Vincente. Heck go further, hire Vincente to consult for you. If he can solve NASA's safety problems I am pretty sure he'd have interesting things to say about reducing injuries in the NHL. Similarly John Lee out of the University of Iowa might be helpful.
Locally, you might want to work with people like Bill Carveth, crazy inventor type with a helmet that all but eliminates concussions. Maybe sponsor a new equipment design competition. Get local school kids involved in developing safe hockey programs.
3. Hire Craig MacTavish. Yes I know he already theoretically works for you. I just have a specific job in mind. Director of Hockey Intelligence. He'd be your go to guy for info on prospective trade targets, free agents, etc. He'd do the due dilligence.
He'd also have several people working for him. One would be your Head of Hockey Statistics. They'd produce Corsi, Desjardin and other numbers for use by your staff...and explain the math to your coaches. Their principle task though would be to come up with new statistics that would be the exclusive IP of the Oilers.
His other assistant would be your Head of Hockey Computer Modelling. They'd create simulations that would allow your staff to try out every trade, player move, contract and draft before the fact with increasing high degrees of confidence. More valuable IP.
4. Create an internship program. Get the best and brightest young men and women from across the country to spend a summer or a year working in your organization. Young people keep you fresh.
5. Most importantly create goals for the organization. Yeah, winning the Stanley Cup would be nice but surely you want to be about more than that. I've already proposed some here, like become a leader in safety.
Here are a few more.
-to become a learning organization
by rewarding members of the management team who upgrade their educations and by facilitating educational opportunities
-to integrate leading edge thought in complexity and game theory into the Oilers strategic thinking
-to discover and exploit knowledge advantages (5% more knowledge could be as much as 40% more success on the ice)
In a nutshell learn and innovate your way to a Stanley Cup.
Voracek 1, Gagner 0
ReplyDelete... or is it Voracek 1, Gagner -1? This quantum arithmetic always confuses me.
It seems that Gagner has created more chances than Voracek so far, but I did miss the first 10 minutes of the game.
ReplyDeleteRobert Nilsson doesn't compare well to Derek Brassard as a linemate though.
Jon: All three of Pouliot, Gagner and Nilsson were defensively deficient on that goal IMO.
ReplyDeletePouliot made a couple of real sharp plays earlier, and then he screwed up on a couple of routine plays, and isn't that the way of it?
I thought Gagner's line had a nice period there, battled well and 89 made some nice passes. He needs a finisher on his line.
ReplyDeletePenner's line is also getting things done and it is nice to see Stortini playing hard during what might be his last season with the Oilers.
Dubnyk looked good, no?
I had the oilers with one chance at EV.
ReplyDeleteOne.
I think that so far this season Dubnyk has had some poor luck. The goals against him seem to be total gifts by the defense, much like the goal tonight. He's seemed otherwise solid for stretches I've thought.
ReplyDeleteIf only he could get more than one game out of every three one could get a sense for how he plays.
The goal was on the player who made that poor clearing attempt. Don't remember. Gilbert?
ReplyDeleteWell the two defensemen were both covering the one forward in front of the net, neglecting Voracek. I would think it would be the same side D to blame there.
ReplyDeleteLT, What makes you think that Stortini is done as an oiler?
ReplyDeletewow thats rare - a real good play by chorney.
ReplyDeleteYou guys are not filling me with enthusiasm to wrest control of the TV away from my kids.
ReplyDeleteOf course, the Oilers sorta are on right now though. The kids are watching the Smurfs.
Chorney finally shows some value at the NHL level.
ReplyDeleteboopronger: I think he might be in tough with all the changes that are going to go down this season. Stauffer has mentioned DJ King a few times on his show and I think the club might be looking at more of an enforcer type for the 4line.
ReplyDeleteStortini does some good things but when you're the 4line RW on a 30th place team and have been HS'd a few times there has to be some concern.
Poor GA on Dubnyk there.
ReplyDeleteProbably, but the space afforded by a snoozing Peckham gave Clark some time to get in closer and pick his shot. Seems Dubnyk was definitely deep and low in the net for a single shooter though.
ReplyDeleteHey LT,
ReplyDeleteI know earlier in the year you mentioned an intruiging college FA by the name of Casey Wellman. Well according to Mike Russo he's close to signing a two year deal with the Wild and will start with the big club this season.
http://twitter.com/Russostrib
geez johnson looked slow there
ReplyDeleteThanks, 40oz. I imagine the Wild might have an advantage if the kid is American (he's from California) but it would be nice to get one or two of these kids.
ReplyDeleteDubnyk must think this is a 2-on-1 drill.
It looked like Dubnyk was trying to catch the puck with a frying pan. He totally whiffed it there. Ya, it was an in close chance, but a pretty weak wrist shot he should have had.
ReplyDeletedoes Aaron Johnson look like a much bigger and much faster Marty Reasoner?
ReplyDeleteNo he looks like a much bigger and much faster Steve Staios.
ReplyDeleteI love that trade.
agreed. I think Johnson looks pretty good as well. I hope they keep him around past this season as well. I think he look pretty steady.
ReplyDeleteDJ King bloodied Boogaard last night. I'd be surprised if he goes anywhere.
ReplyDeleteIn other news, Doug MacLean is still a douchebag.
Bruce: Do you think Johnson might be another of those deals I've talked about the Oilers making (Staios, Hejda, etc)?
ReplyDeleteJohnson has some flaws but also has calm feet and he's not 50 or anything. I think he might end up spending a few productive seasons here (although it is early).
I've been impressed with him again tonight, just little things but it is there nonetheless.
He seems to think offense first and has been caught flatfooted with the puck going the wrong way a few times, but overall I think he's worth having back there. He's certainly more effective than Strudwick.
ReplyDeleteHopefully they can get him on a cheap two year contract. Maybe 900K?
as much as Johnson has got caught looking a few times, he does look like a pretty fluid skater and certainly is a better skater than Staois or Strudwick. I agree with you LT about him being a possible steal such as Hejda. A nice pick-up for sure.
ReplyDeleteOh, Dubnyk.
ReplyDeleteanother bad goal given up by Dubnyk. Ouch.
ReplyDeleteProbably also Dubnyk's worst full game. Bleh.
ReplyDeleteJohnson maybe become our new Staios.
ReplyDeletehow about that Johnson ! nice activation on that rush to bury it !
ReplyDeleteJohnson scored another goal in the exact same manner and spot against Toronto. Consistent reinforcement like that will probably ensure a few more odd man rushes against with him on the ice in the next few games.
ReplyDeleteWhat impressed me about the deal was how Johnson arrived with the same sort of credentials as Staios, which is to say nothing great but just experienced enough that he should be coming into his own without costing an arm OR a leg. The trouble is he's UFA ... I would love to see the Oil sign him to a similar deal that Steady Steve signed when he first came here, 3 years @ $700 K. A useful guy to have around in the 5-6-7 roles.
ReplyDeleteAnd look at that ... he scores!
Jon K: At least he can score. Chorney and Strudwick give up odd man rushes with zero offensive upside.
ReplyDeleteWow, I think that's the first time I've heard Minard's name all game. He seems to be invisible tonight.
ReplyDeleteI know that OTC has this "win and you get another game" thing going
ReplyDeleteWhen your team is in 34th place and you have two goalies to evaluate this is amazingly stupid.
OTC is looking rounder every day.
I hope I am wrong.
Yeah I don't mind Johnson. He's got some utility. The problem is that the three players in question all give up quality chances consistently, albeit for different reasons. Strudwick because he can't skate anymore, Chorney because he has no idea how to play defense, and Johnson as a cheater.
ReplyDeleteI'd be much happier to slot him in if our forwards were better at filling in the gaps and our defense core as a whole wasn't a clusterfuck.
bookie: He must have fallen off the Herbal Magic wagon.
ReplyDeleteChorney got absolutely fucking walked there.
ReplyDeleteI thought skating and positional skills were his forte.
Chorney has no forte unless your talking about minus forte.
ReplyDeleteChorney is a future forward.
ReplyDeleteChorney is a future forward.
ReplyDeleteI openly laughed when they did that to Bergeron. I now admit this is a good idea.
At least in the sense that he might make it as a forward.
I think it is safe to say that Chorney should look for a great singles pad in Oklahoma next fall. He won't be getting a big league salary next fall.
ReplyDeleteor, if Chorney is in the top 7 next fall, we will be talking about a lottery pick again next year...
ReplyDeleteUm.
ReplyDeleteShouldn't we have control of the puck before we pull the goalie?
Who do we blame that one on?
Quinn.
ReplyDeleteI'm starting to get discouraged by Dubnyk's continuing goose egg. His team scored 3 goals and held the other guys below 30 shots. He needs to make a couple saves, specifically off of Clark and Huselius. Both of those were weak sauce. Stop even one of them and we're in OT. A good goalie wins that game outright IMO.
ReplyDeleteDefinitely not a strong showing on his part. Loss rightfully falls to him. Only one that could be put fully on the rest of the team is the first goal.
ReplyDeleteThose were some 1970's GA alright, I'd still like to see him for a week. It isn't like we've got Bernie Parent on the bench or anything.
ReplyDelete@jon k, I think you have to say that Methot's goal, the 4th one was a pretty good set up and would have been a tough save for any goalie to make. I agree with Bruce, the Clark and Huselieus goals were very weak.
ReplyDeleteso, LT, just curious. do you think that part of the issue Dubnyk is struggling with right now is lack of action ? In Springfield, he's been a work horse and in the NHL, he's like a relief pitcher ?
ReplyDeleteDennis I believe posted a few days ago that he hoped the Oilers did absolutely awful for the rest of the year so the Brain Trust could see how bad this team is.
ReplyDeleteWith Khabibulin out they may be thinking that their team would be much better if Khabby was in. But I think they'd be deluding themselves again. Khabby may not play next season, or get re-injured or just stink.
Regwald: I think Dubnyk was poor tonight but would like to see him get an extended look. Quinn will return with JDD in the next game but imo we kind of know what we have with him.
ReplyDeleteBut at this point we're talking about the difference between Duffy Dyer and Ed Ott. Problem is the Oilers need Manny Sanguillen.
I want to add that I'm sick and tired of hearing the announcers of Oiler games talk about so and so on the other team, or the whole team, coming out of a slump and putting on a superbly scintillating stellar effort.
ReplyDeleteWell for fuck's sake they're playing the Damn Piss Poor Oilers. What is there to brag about? (See the Leafs on Saturday. You'd think they'd won the pennant.)
But at this point we're talking about the difference between Duffy Dyer and Ed Ott. Problem is the Oilers need Manny Sanguillen.
ReplyDeleteLOL
@Lebowski-we cure what ails you.
ReplyDeleteQuinn post game
I like the new name so much I think I'll copyright it, viz. "Damn Piss Poor Team©".
ReplyDeleteDubnyk has the worst save percentage in the league amongst goalies that have started 5+ games.....
ReplyDeleteI say we start him until the end of the season just to make sure Hall or Oates are in the bag.
Bank Shot - it doesn't matter which one they play, pal. They are equally terrible.
ReplyDeleteThis club is set for last. Put it this way, if they were nine points out of eighth with 13 left to play would we be talking playoffs?
No way.
Both goalies suck so much that nobody will take them on waivers next year and if anybody did who would care?
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure I'd agree. There's a 30 point difference in their save percentages.
ReplyDeleteJDD has looked like an NHL goalie at times this season. He's had some glimpses of competency.
Dubnyk has looked completely lost out there. If his confidence isn't completely in the toilet, another 5 starts will likely get it there.
Yea, they'll finish last either way. Will getting walked on help DD's development? I'm sure the Oilers can pass him through waivers without problem after this showcase so he'll get another shot next season after the Oilers are eliminated for the playoffs.
Maybe it'd be better for Devan to get some more games against competition he can handle.
Just watched the Wings put a big dagger in the Flames playoffs hopes.
ReplyDeleteNow if the Wings can finish 8th to San Jose's 1st and they can knock the Sharks out in the first round, I'll be pretty happy.
With Cleary and the Mule back and Howard posting a .925 so far this year, I'd wouldn't want to play them.
ha ha ha Calgary.
ReplyDeleteEdmonton will help Calgary out by getting slaughtered by Detroit next game.
ReplyDeleteAfter seeing Dubnyk's performance tonight, I hear Tommy Salo's thinking about a comeback.
ReplyDeleteOr Smokey McLeod.
Willis breaks down the Hall vs Seguin boxcars @ hockey or die..
ReplyDeletehttp://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2010/03/15/hall-vs-seguin-situational-scoring/
Without shots or toi it's hard to pick one over the other right now.
One pound and two and a half months age difference...
Hopefully the Whalers make it deep and we get an extended look.
This club is set for last. Put it this way, if they were nine points out of eighth with 13 left to play would we be talking playoffs?
ReplyDeleteI would!
/Vish Throttler'd
Jan Hejda will likely miss the remainder of the season after sustaining a sprained knee in the first period of Monday's game against the Oilers. - Columbus Dispatch
ReplyDeleteWhen does the game start?
ReplyDeleteI hear Hall getting Messier comparisons.
ReplyDeleteBill Needle said...
ReplyDeleteAfter seeing Dubnyk's performance tonight, I hear Tommy Salo's thinking about a comeback.
Or Smokey McLeod.
Flashback for me: Listening to Rod Phillips go nuts over Smokey handling the puck...used to think he would keel over with a heart attack when I was listening to him on the radio back in the 70s.
I give DD a mulligan on this one. He has played good enough to win before. We will see if he has the mental fortitude to bounce back and fight for a future spot.
Good hilarity can be had from watching Moreau being full value for his minus on Methot's goal. The idiot literally skates a complete circle in his own end without touching a soul, he had no fucking clue what to do until he saw Methot skate clean by him to one time it into the net from the right faceoff dot. Of course, he was far too late to make a difference.
ReplyDeleteI see your Smokey McLeod and raise you Ken Broderick.
ReplyDeleteSwedish Bob scoring at a 0.5PPG lick - at what point does he start earning his 1.9m a year? Cogs is beginning to look like the speedy forechecking centre we want him to be and Brule has a good chance at 20 goals on the year. Does this mean O'Sully is chopped ham this summer?
ReplyDelete