Kevin Lowe was in conversation with Jason Gregor today on Just A Game. Lowe gave a clear view of the team's direction and provided some specifics for this summer.Lowe said that MPS, Eberle and the high first might be here in the fall and that the club needed to manage expectations. He also suggested the club will not rush young players, which is curious because MPS is in fact 11 months younger than Eberle. Patience has been in short supply in Oiler nation these last few years.
The former (and future?) GM also mentioned buyouts, something we've discussed here based on Bob Stauffer's comments on his show (specifically in regard to Nilsson and O'Sullivan).
According to the de facto head man of hockey, the Oilers will follow the Blackhawk template and hope to build with Hall or Seguin at the draft this summer. He also specifically mentioned Anton Lander and Jeff Petry.
This should be fun to follow. Based on these items, we can conclude the Oilers will:
- Draft Hall or Seguin
- Have a long look at MPS, Eberle and Hall/Seguin while being patient
- buyout a young forward
So when's Lowe gonna make deals like Sharp and Versteeg for little in return? When's the last time our GM robbed someone like that?
ReplyDeleteAnd where's our kane? who's our toews? do you see a Keith?
It's easy to cluck about following this team's template but it's all a crock of shit in the end.
I don't understand how buying out O'Sullivan or Nilsson is the best possible option.
ReplyDeleteDennis: I think (based on the interview) that the building starts now. Which (imo) is crazy since Gagner is a perfectly good starting point for a rebuild and Hemsky isn't 50.
ReplyDeleteBut this is Lowe's team.
raven: Agreed. I wouldn't buy either of them out, choosing instead to send Ethan Moreau to Okla City.
Don't worry Dennis. It's all about choosing which team to copy and then the rest just falls into place.
ReplyDeleteI mean, first Lowe was going to copy Philly, but then Philly had that bad season, so he made an astute move to switch to Detroit's template. That's how they got that fancy depth in management that has been pushing the envelope in E-Town.
Obviously Detroit hasn't been great this year, so its a stroke of genius to start copying one of the best in the regular season so far. Surely Stanley Cups can't be far behind.
I don't know what is worse, having a GM that is incapable of coming up with his own identity for his team, or the fact that he can't even stay consistent in which copied identity he wants to pursue.
"Let's not rush these kids."
ReplyDelete---
"I don't want to get anyone's expectations up, but we might see MPS, Eberle, and Hall with the team next year."
---
Double-speak anyone?
I know how Vish Throttler works and he's just crafty enough to know how stupid fans can be so you throw out a team that's doing well right now and you say you're gonna emulate them.
ReplyDeleteGuys on press row were pitching tents over the Oilers copying the Wings MGMT configuration par example.
So old Vish knows that the Hawks have been bad for awhile and now they're run and gun and he knows the locals will eat that if he brings them out as the new model. Of course fellows like the ones who hang out here can pick that apart in five seconds but we're not the kind of people who keeps Lowe in power either.
"let's not rush these kids - tell them they can skate at half-speed out there."
ReplyDeleteagainst the toughest qualcomp, maybe, cause we're not sure about this line matching thing.
Is it normal for the President of hockey operations to be scouting? Apparently he saw both Hall and Seguin play twice last week. Now he's talking about buyouts and rosters for next year.
ReplyDeleteNot as if that's a bad idea, but why doesn't he just get rid of the puppet.
You said it LT: This is Lowe's team. It all makes sense now.
It's good to have a puppet, you can blame things on it.
ReplyDeleteI remember watching the WJHCs a couple years ago, and the camera was panning over various luminaries in the crowd, such as Brian Burke, Steve Yzerman, and other hockey execs. Kevin Lowe was there, and when the camera cut to him, Gord Miller said something like "and there's the GM of the Oilers... excuse me, president of hockey operations." Pierre kind of choked and laughed a bit, and Gord just chuckled at his faux pas.
ReplyDeleteI think it's a mistake to add 3 or 4 rookies next year, even if they are impact players. For one, cap wise it makes no sense because of the ramifications in 3 years. Spread it out a bit and I think it makes more sense. Espcially since no way there is room for the 3 forwards, unless they do plan on drafting Sequin and running with
ReplyDeletea kid line of MPS-Seguin-Eberle.
Here is the way I honestly think things went down with Lowe and Tambo.
ReplyDeleteThey had a relationship from working together with Hockey Canada and Lowe knew that Tambo had been passed over twice by his own org when the big chair came open.
So the team that knows him best doesn't have enough confidence to give him the big gig and know Lowe knows that Tambo's desperate.
Lowe's ego is such that he's sick of failure after failure and he probably came close to melting down the night he didn't show up at Rexall for the retirement ceremony because he'd traded 94 that afternoon; you've got guys showing up at the stadium with Lowe Must Go signs and they are being taken to rooms and questioned so it can't get a lot worse.
Yet Lowe still wants to be a shot-caller but he doesn't want the blame. he knows Tambo has nowhere else to go so he makes a deal with him where it appears he's the GM but all final say is in Lowe's hands.
Scott Howson knew enough who to ask to speak to when he was interested in some of the Oilers players and it wasn't Tambo he conversed with.
From the interviews right after they hired Tambellini, I saw Lowe acting somewhat contrite noting that he was somewhat overwhelmed and that his decision making was at times not the best because of it. By bringing Tambellini in, the notion was that Tabellini would do the day to day and that major hockey decisions (major trades, overall team strategy, etc.) is something that they would develop as a management team. I didn't get the sense that Lowe was somehow suggesting that he would no longer be a key player in big decisions.
ReplyDeleteTambellini being labeled a puppet really comes down to the level to which he has a say in the collective decision making. If he is an equal partner in the scheme, then he is not a puppet, he is part of a management team.
If Lowe calls the shots and Tambellini follows them even though he disagrees, then he is a puppet.
What I do not understand is that Lowe makes 2 statements that are simply irreconcilable and we, as fans, buy them whole hog!! That we may see #1 draft pick, MPS and Eberle next year but we won't rush anyone.
ReplyDeleteReally??
Other than rushing them to the show.....what is the goal in exposing them to tough opponents for limited minutes when they are not yet man sized.
Course I have also had 7 reminders in the last 10 days to renew my season tickets .... not that there is a problem with renewals
The sooner Katz blows these complete charlatans out of the management suite, the better.
Forgot..........................Chicago is our model: so who is our our Toews, Kane and Keith? I get it that Gagner grows into Sharp but ,,,,,,WOW talk about self delusion
When's the last time our GM robbed someone like that?
ReplyDeleteProbably Gilbert for Salo. A good case can be made that Hejda for a 7th was robbery too. Maybe Glencross for Tarnstrom? Even Brule looks pretty good now as a return for Raffi. What about Pronger for Eric Brewer and spare parts? Nedved and Markenen for Valiquette and who again? Spacek for Salmeleinen(sp). I don't think the ability to acquire players has ever been a problem for Lowe - retaining them, overpaying them, recently whale hunting - there's where the problems lay. Other ones don't need to be invented.
A Jagr aquisiton would take away some of the limelight from Hall or Seguin and that could be worth it in the future.
ReplyDeleteAre we really having a big debate on who we should actually put the blame?
ReplyDeleteTrade deadline was okay. Apart from the Grebeshkov trade which was suckass. So far it isn't that terrible. We're not yet in Brian Burke or Mike Milbury territory
If Edmonton's strategy with Tambellini as GM wasn't pretty much the same as it was under Lowe (prostrate yourself before the hot UFA/RFA during the summer, completely ignore glaring but fixable holes in the lineup in the meantime) then I could buy the partnership idea. But, it doesn't appear to me that the Oilers' MO has changed much at all.
ReplyDeleteThe Chicago template took years to be accomplished. Calm down. Hall or Seguin is on the way with other picks. MPS might be a jewel, same goes for Eberle.
ReplyDeleteChicago template? I guess we have done our Spacek for Salmelainen deal already.
ReplyDeleteStaples had a piece a couple days ago about Lowe and Burke reconciling their differences.
ReplyDeleteThere is a piece embedded in the article by Michael Farber and a mention at the bottom of MC79.
He had another piece about the Oilogosphere with a mention of our very own Lowetide.
I don't know how many kids you can throw out there next year..having our young guys get slaughtered for another 82 games isn't helping anybody-having a plan is one thing but you still gotta play the games.
The Chicago template is really the Islanders template from the 70's, or Oilers from the 80's (or, for the more ancient among us, the 1946 Toronto Maple Leafs). You acquire a strong core of young players that develop together while surrounding them with quality veterans and filling in the holes as required. The Islanders build around Bossy, Trottier, Gillies and Potvin (only two of which, I would point out, were top five picks), the Oilers around Anderson, Messier, Gretzky, Kurri, Coffey etc (not one drafted in the top five).
ReplyDeleteIt takes a bit of luck, intelligent coaching and good management to make it work. Unfortunately, these are qualities that have long been in short supply around here.
And Oilman, good collection of quality trades made by Lowe. The only problem is that almost are were pre-2006. Lowe never figured out how to manage in a cap system and we're paying for that now.
Oilman: some good points - though I certainly don't agree with all the trades you put up as steals - but the deal is he's not keeping those guys so what's the point.
ReplyDeleteand there's still no toews or kane or keith.
I wish the Oilers were run more like Calgary and Columbus. Those teams address need and understand the value of real NHL players.
ReplyDeleteI think it comes down to how many years Katz is willing to wait. Illitch never did fire Devallano.
ReplyDeleteOn another note, does anyone else lose a little respect for Gretzky everytime they see him hawking some product?
ReplyDeleteI don't begrudge the guy his fame, but I have never liked it when he does this. He is awkward as hell doing it. Somehow for me, it reduces his aura of greatness. It would be like if I saw a commercial by the Queen of England selling chewing gum. I know that a lot of stars 'sell things' these days, but tea? Old washed up D-list celebreties sell things like 'tea'. I am pretty sure if someone came to Betty White and said "We want you to advertise our tea" she would say 'screw off'.
Come'n get your used Mopeds at WayneGretzky's Used Moped Repair and Sales... come on down this Saturday and get your picture taken with Wayne for just $2 for adults and $1.99 for children.
Tex and Edna Boyle's used organ emporium.
ReplyDeleteAin't that right Tex..?
well, we might have our Kane and Toews in MPS and Hall/Seguin? Eberle might be Versteeg, and Gagne our Sharp? Who Knows?
ReplyDeleteIn fairness, he tried to keep Spacek and Samsonov. He didn't want to trade Pronger. Chara turned down the same money boston offered to sign with the Bruins. I don't think all that can be placed on Lowe. There was a point there where this all fell apart after the cap, and it did. The oilers were once forced to acquire young talent and cheap vets in order to hang onto them for a few years. Money was always the front and centre reason for not signing in Edmonton but now that the money excuse is gone all the other excuses come out - from players and management. I think the best thing to take from the comment that the Oilers will try to follow the Chicago model is that means they are basically returning (hopefully) to the pre cap Oilers model of signing cheap vets, making smart trades, and supplementing that with lottery picks (brought on by the awful management since 2006 - kind of like Chicago pre Kane/Toews)
Doom and Gloom.
ReplyDeleteThe silver lining in the Edmonton-Chicago projection is we already have our very own Huet/Niemi tandem as well as our own Dustin Byfuglien. We also recently acquired Johnson on the blueline so success shouldn't be that far off.
This time next year the future template that they sell to the masses will be a LA Kings style rebuild. Hopefully Lombardi helps us along with another trade.
DereK: Well Niemi is 17-5-1 and with a ,910%. So i wouldnt put them in the same basket lol.
ReplyDeleteThat's right Edna
ReplyDeleteC'mon...you guys left me hanging...free budgies!
And I like the new sarcastic bookie.
Very subtle.
"we might have our Kane and Toews in MPS and Hall/Seguin"
ReplyDeleteYou are right....... we "might" have someone of the caliber of one of Team Canada's 5 best players at this past Olympics and the American's best dangler. Course we might also have Alexei Yashin and Alexandre Daigle.
If it is the latter though we are absolutely BLEEPED!!!!!!!!
Lets give them the benefit of the doubt and they are "basically returning (hopefully) to the pre cap Oilers model of signing cheap vets, making smart trades"
ReplyDeleteIf yo are right where is a righted center that can win draws and kill penalties and play crunch time minutes....... I forgot, because Kevin Lowe says it that makes it a fact........... or maybe Plan A blew up, Plan B blew up, Plan C blew up and, lacking imagination to try a Plan D....we are NOW committed to the Chicago model
God I hope the Chicgo model includes a righted center that can win draws, kill penalties and playscrunch time minutes
We're not yet in Brian Burke or Mike Milbury territory
ReplyDeletePlease.
DBO has a good point. Bringing in all three kids at the same time, aside from adding small rookies to a cast of terribly unbalanced forwards which will possibly hurt their development, also creates potential cap problems.
I say 'potential' but knowing Lowe's absolute ineptness during the cap era it's closer to 'likely'.
I wonder though: How many people really believe that these continue to be Lowe's mistakes and not Tambo's?
I heard most of the interview and it sure sounded to me that Lowe was acting like a GM, not a behind the doors executive. I wanted to talk a bit about it tonight and lo and behold , LT has it up.
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with most of Dennis' comments.
Lowe sounded like he was the real leader, without a doubt. Actually thought he sounded good, spoke without tripping all over himself, more confident.
Glad to hear that Oilers are doing in depth research and due diligence on both Hall and Seguin. Lowe has seen about 2 games for each of them. The scouts are there including Stu M.Talking to coaches, other players, dinner with Hall, psychological testing, and so on. They want to know the person and the player. And what the "guy" will be like in 7 years from now.
He sort of admitted the team has not had a good plan since 2006 and that when you consider where they are (I think he meant 30th) "it hits you in the face".
Finally some admission of screwing up!
IF he continues in this vein I could actually get behind him again.
I apologize if I've bored anyone to death.
Dennis nailed it in the first post.
ReplyDeleteDone.
DBO has a good point. Bringing in all three kids at the same time, aside from adding small rookies to a cast of terribly unbalanced forwards which will possibly hurt their development, also creates potential cap problems.
ReplyDeleteThe cap "problems" from having the contracts of 3 rookies expire at once are pretty minor, IMO. Even if they are major, it's a good thing.
If all three of Seguin/Hall (if EDM picks a F top 2 ~ 3.75 mil), Eberle(= 1.2 mil), MPS (~ 1.3-1.8 mil [Frolik signed for 1.3 and Hodgson for 1.7, both 10 OV draft picks]) make next year's team, they'd have a combined cap hit of ~ 6.75 mil.
In a fantastical blue sky, best case scenario those 3 players would cost, what, 18 mil in cap room if they pan out extraordinarily well? The only contracts the Oilers currently have past that point are Horcoff and Gilbert.
Sure they could create a cap scenario in the next year or two wherein they would have trouble with those salaries, but there's nothing to worry about at the moment in that respect, IMO.
@ Sk Oiler Fan - I don't know if it's normal for the President of Hockey Operations to be scouting, but this organization better have everyone this side of Joey Moss looking at Hall and Seguin to make sure they've got all the information possible to make the best pick. Lowe would be irresponsible to not be watching the players that are in play for our lottery pick. As long as he doesn't overrule MacGregor on draft day, I don't have a problem with it.
ReplyDeleteIf yo are right where is a righted center that can win draws and kill penalties and play crunch time minutes....... I forgot, because Kevin Lowe says it that makes it a fact........... or maybe Plan A blew up, Plan B blew up, Plan C blew up and, lacking imagination to try a Plan D....we are NOW committed to the Chicago model
ReplyDeleteGod I hope the Chicgo model includes a righted center that can win draws, kill penalties and playscrunch time minutes
any particular reason why this penalty killing, faceoff winning, crunchtime centre has to be right handed? Or are you just committed to the LT model? :o).
The Oilers already have a third line centre to win draws.
ReplyDeleteWhich hand he uses is just nonsense to draw attention away from Horcoff's left handedness.
When managing in a complex environment, one where the simplest of actions have major consequences goal setting is vitally important. The problem is that as far as I can tell Kevin Lowe didn't actually establish any goals beyond the terminally vague, "managing expectations" and ridiculous "following the Chicago template." Neither of these goals provide the sort of specific direction you need in order to manage in a chaotic and highly networked situation.
ReplyDeleteSpecific goals might have been:
1. to become more competitive
2. to give Eberle, MPS, Hall/Seguin, Vande Velde, Nash, Lander, Hartikianen and Petry significant minutes next year but only allow them to play on the second and fourth lines, or at 5, 6D thus avoiding any heavy lifting
3. to keep them from getting crushed to sign some very large psychopathic knuckle draggers (emphasizing those that actually are decent defensively), our complete collection of which will scare the shit out of other teams
4. to sign some proven veteran team leaders to teach the rookies how to handle the NHL
5. to build first and third lines that outperform on a regular basis
6. to make room for these new players we are going to trade, buyout, or assign a number of contracts that are no longer viable within our current cap situation
Those kinds of goals would clearly define the parameters for management actions. Kevin Lowe's are just too vague to be useful, for him or anyone else.
if lowe has a vision then why isn't o'sullivan going on this road trip? 2.4 million. sweet.
ReplyDeleteoh wait, moreau is. what kind of leader is this guy going to be for the rest of the season? couldn't play at home because he couldn't get traded? the only buyout i see is this guy.
really curious if they offer fernando really small fries next year. curious what another team would offer him. good to see him get one last night.
i think i know what this team is gonna look like next year though. unpredictable.
Neither LA or Chicago went out looking for players to play specific roles, replicated on other teams. Toews, Kopitar, Kane, Doughty....they were just a matter of taking the best hockey player.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing that I don't think Lowe understands is how young the NHL draftees are. In the NFL and NBA, players don't get drafted until they are at least 20 and in many cases 23-24.
There is no reason that outside of the top 5 picks, that a player should come to the NHL right away.
They are just kids and they shouldn't be still developing there skills against more talented and bigger players. Eberle should play at least a year in Springfield. MPS the same. Lowe is making a buisness decision and not a hockey one.
They will play in Oklahoma, not Springfield*****
ReplyDeleteIf they're not going to contend next year, why buy out O'Sullivan or Nilsson? Let them play out their deals and walk at the end of next year. No big deal.
ReplyDeleteI'll go on record as saying the only buyout I'd be OK with is that of Ethan Moreau, because I want his cancerous presence removed from the entire organization as soon as possible.
ReplyDeleteOn The Bench: seriously, seek help.
ReplyDeleteSo if there's been an admission of error, does that mean that the Oilers management are going to stop pretending that the reason we were all pissed about the Smyth trade is that "Edmonton needs a superstar" and not "you shipped out the face of the franchise for pennies on the dollar, (ostensibly) over pocket change"? Because that's about the best reasoning I can figure for why they've gone whale hunting every summer since.
ReplyDeleteThe first whale they landed was Pronger, and to a lesser extent Peca - they came out of the lockout swinging for the fences. They wouldn't be whale hunting now if a)Pronger had stayed, or b)they got a baby whale in return.
ReplyDeleteThis team isn't winning anything for the next several years; it's time to face that reality.
ReplyDeleteWhy buyout O'Sullivan and Nilsson?
To begin to turn around the culture of defeat on this team and start restoring a better work ethic.
I'd sure like to see the Oilers make a trade with Boston for Toronto's second pick and scoop up the top two.
Hell, trade for the 3rd pick while they are at it and seriously load up.
Hemsky and Penner should do it.
We are going to suck anyway you look at it; they may as well suck magnificently and grab another high draft pick next year too.
It's good to have a puppet, you can blame things on it.
ReplyDeleteThe Gervais Principle is this:
Sociopaths, in their own best interests, knowingly promote over-performing losers into middle-management, groom under-performing losers into sociopaths, and leave the average bare-minimum-effort losers to fend for themselves.
Shawn Horcoff can win faceoffs....46.1 percent.....
ReplyDeletehaha
Are people really still annoyed about Smyth? Really?!?!
ReplyDeleteI think we have to weigh the value of the "young group that grows up and starts to win together" choice with the New York Yankees/Detroit Red Wings development style ("you're not playing until you're very very good") if we're going fully youth here.
Any chance we actually have enough dough due to flexibility achieved from unloading d-men to go sign a bunch of vet forwards who aren't fancy but get the job done? I think that way we compete next year AND develop like crazy for the future.
Dennis did get it with the first post. My only modification would be that he should have started with "Oh fuck."
ReplyDeleteWhat's most impressive of LT post is that he was able to dig into the archives and pull out a picture of Lowe with hair!!
ReplyDeleteOilman: Sharp's certainly more of an impact player than Versteeg but my point is when's Lowe going to make deals where he picks up guys like that for basically very little in return and then we get them on the cheap for a couple of years?
ReplyDeleteAlso, kudos to Lowe for getting to Pronger first but the Peca deal was about nothing more than the Oilers being so cheap heading into the lockout that they could afford to pay the rest of Peca's freight. the '06 cap was 37.5 mill? Peca was making $2.95 mill or aroundabouts? So who else had the room to pay that guy that much of their payroll? By the end of May I loved that fucker like i was his mother but there wasn't a lot of teams that were going to pay for him and I don't believe we sent a salary back in that deal either, did we? Which makes it even more of a salary dump.
The Oilers had all kinds of guys on the cheap in '06 like 14-16-34-10--83 etc etc and like I said kudos to Lowe for getting the jump on Pronger but Nichols and the rest are also owed a salute for their pre-lockout miserly ways.
Wasn't it Peca for York, who was making North of $2mil at the time. But I believe Peca was more like $3.95m so yeah, there was an extra $2mil involved. And the oilers really thought they were the 25 goal 2nd line center Peca, not the 9 goal guy. But, he was a bona fide, former major trophy winning team Canada member so there was still a lot of shine to the bobble so to speak.
ReplyDelete