This week, I've been quite surprised to see so much negative press about Wayne Gretzky's salary.A Globe and Mail article by Matthew Sekeres and David Shoalts tells us that the average salary for an NHL coach is just south of $1M and Gretzky is making between $7M and $8M.
A quote from an unnamed source in the article says "he doesn't translate to one ticket sold. They pimped him so much, but he didn't represent $1."
I always find these articles (and fan reaction to them) to be both predictable and galling. NHL owners have over many decades financially sodomized workers and their families, so the idea of feeling sorry for them is outrageous. Wayne Gretzky is going to take some money from North America's idle rich--honestly, I've never liked him more!
--
Steve Tambellini's nickname should be Pat, as in stand Pat. Reading the local fishwrap this morning, it looks like they'll try Theo Peckham, Taylor Chorney and Mathieu Roy (possibly in that order).
As a fan of prospects, it's kind of exciting thinking about Taylor Chorney's NHL debut and Theo Peckham's first real audition. As a fan looking at the Oilers prospects of making the post-season, this news is depressing.
Is there any actual outrage over Gretzky's salary, or is there just bored media members insisting that there must be outrage because otherwise they'd be writing about something pretty stupid?
ReplyDeleteDid he ever make that much as a player?
ReplyDeleteHey Theo Peckham he was 1st star. Gretz and how much dough he makes wtf is that for Globe & Mail. Maybe they should cover the Leafs and the 2nd coming for the manager they have. Pretty soon they will be attacking leaf nation as I think they have publicly buried every player so far. Now a lot people say don't play in Edmonton. What player would want to play for the buds?
ReplyDeleteGretz made more off of endorsements that he did as a player. Good for him he is still a classy guy.
But his dawgs are going down.
I have to say I would be real disappointed if they shipped out anything of value for rental D man.
ReplyDeleteGoing into next year they will be pretty much set at D (depending upon Grebs resigning) and anyone they bring on now will be surplus. Add in that they already have a big chunk of their payroll committed to D and it makes the most sense to see what their young guys can do.
In case anyone has not noticed, the Oilers are not going to win the Cup this year. I frankly don't understand why the GM has to pull out all the stops just to make the playoffs. That worked real well for the Leafs all these years, didn't it.
"Stand" Pat Gillick was always criticized for not doing enough at trade deadlines (for the Toronto media) and all he did was bring the Jays their only two championships.
I'd argue having a shot at the playoffs is a better alternative than a long shot of getting a player in the 3rd round.
ReplyDeleteThe Oilers will have two 3rd round picks in the next draft. The fact they intend to ride it out with rookies suggests they don't give a fuck about making the playoffs, and will likely be sellers at the deadline.
Being only 2 points out of 5th (with a game in hand), it's quite sad, actually.
Here's the Oiler D for next season:
ReplyDeleteLubo-5.6
Souray-5.4
Gilbert-4.0
Staios-2.7
Grebs and Smid-rfa's
17.7M before you sign Grebeshkov and Smid. If you assume that Grebeshkov is going to cost north of 3M and that Smid's going to be more than 1.5M, we're talking over 22M for 6 defenders.
I don't think the current Oilers blue is going to be around come the fall. We can hope Staios is dealt but we're talking about 2 more years with a 2.7M cap hit for the player. He'll be 36 in the fall.
The Oilers could easily cash a pick or a prospect for something useful this season. I'm not saying trade for Bouwmeester (although I'd love it) I'm saying make one of those deadline deals they seem capable of doing, bring in a nice, savvy veteran and see if this team can steal a round.
You only have so many sorties, and frankly I suspect the goaltending the Oilers are getting now will be the best we're going to see for some time.
I'm not saying go for the Stanley. Go for the playoffs, get Hemsky some more experience, have some success again.
This organization seems content with being "in the range" and I'd like them to be more like Philly or NJD. Those teams make moves more often that are designed for the here and now.
The Oilers are playing chess while the well managed teams are playing Duke Nukem.
More Duke, please.
Ok folks ... I don't know you can dump on T for not making the big trade. No one has made the big trade, and I keep reading/hearing that you can expect nothing across the league until a few days before the deadline, for 2 reasons ... First, most teams still have a shot and second, the salary cap is proving a severe constraint to player movement in general.
ReplyDeleteAlso I am with Ducey. Shipping out prispeccts to make a run for 8th is what teams like Atlanta do (and we can see how that worked), not what a team with an eye next year does.
St George: You don't neccessarily have to give up Eberle or a 1st to get an NHL defenceman.
ReplyDeleteA guy like Kyle McLaren would go for pennies at this point.
I'm having a bit of a blogger problem today, so deleted the last two posts.
ReplyDeleteI'm getting nothing aside from the blog title and items on the r-side (no posts) so am hoping this fixes it.
Anyone else having this problem?
"Its time to kick ass and chew bubble gum... and im all outa gum..."
ReplyDelete(every thing seemed normal to me LT)
ReplyDeleteI saw that too, LT, but all seems back to normal now.
ReplyDeleteI am a Peckham fan but even I recognize that Theo is not yet a full-time NHLer...
ReplyDeleteWe need an inexpensive short term rental that will not cost us a 1st round draft pick or any of Nash / Eberle / Peckham.
I like Havelid from Atlanta. He is a UFA at the end of the season.
And the reason I believe we need to get to the playoffs is because nothing beats experience to take the next step.
Gagner / Nilsson / Cogliano / Smid etc... getting 4 or 5 playoff games (even if the Oilers get destroyed) is definitely worth a spare asset - in the long run...
I am all for "pat" Tambo trading for a defensemen to help us get to the playoffs. Because we are not low enough in the standings to be in selling mode and stock pile draft picks. An extra fourth or third pick won't help us in the next two years. But a playoff appearance might help us in the free agent market, plus reassure the fan base, and make Katz some more money.
ReplyDeleteBut Pat should move now, not at the deadline (as many great posters have mentioned) to assure we make the playoffs. As PO has said Kyle McLaren would come cheap and allow use to at least move strudsie out of the line up on a regular basis, I think we could get him for a fourth rounder just to save the SJ some money in the minors.
I just don't want to trade our 1st or 2rd round picks. The 1st rounder because we are not in a position to go deep in the playoffs, and the second rounder for my evil plan.
after MIN signs Backstrum to a huge contract (say 6 million), we offer Harding a three year contract with a cap hit of 2.614 million. This is the maximun amount with a compensation of a 2nd round pick. Pushing MIN to have over 8.5 million tied up in goalies. If they match, they can't trade him and are hamstrung for other elements of the roster, and if we succeed we get a young goalie for nothing (other then cash). At worst, we screw up MIN plans. It is a win-win deal.
and if we succeed we get a young goalie for nothing (other then cash).
ReplyDeleteWell, and a 2nd.
Only problem is whether Harding is really a starter - do you split him 40/40 with Roloson and cut JDD loose? Do you play Harding 65 and JDD 17?
Lots and lots of buzz that Whitney or Staal for Cole+a kid was killed prior to Pittsburgh firing the coach.
ReplyDeleteSchizo: I rank Harding > JDD. I would still say that Harding is worth more then a second rounder, so it is a good deal. I would play him as a tandem, most likely the 1B. So then it comes down to attempting to trade JDD or waiving him during training camp. If it is a trade, we get back Harding and a fourth round (?) for JDD and a second. If we demote him we don't have to pick up a AHL goalie to help out Devin. We will need another NHL goalie, preferably a vet, to make up the second half of the tandem: so either resign Roli, or go after another vet during free agency (maybe Emery, or Legace?). But it still think it is a good deal either way.
ReplyDeleteHello everyone, I am only posting this here because ebay has been decidedly unkind. Just had a buyer decide not to pay after the auction had closed.
ReplyDeleteI have two hard tickets to this Saturday's tilt against the Calgary Flames. Circumstances have come up that make my trip impossible and I've been trying to sell them with no success.
Ticket 1 : Section 112, Row 15
Ticket 2: Section 114, Row 14
Face value on each is $149, looks like you could pick each one up for quite a bit less than that if you wanted to today.
I'm really hoping someone can help me out. I was looking very forward to my first ever game at Rexall and at the moment it looks like I spent $300 on tickets I simply can't use.
PS: message atesm@hotmail.com if you have questions so we can the keep clutter off of LT's blog :)
I like the Harding plan. It puts Min in a tough spot. The biggest problem I can see is that I doubt Min signs Backstrom. They pushed Fernandez out the door when he got expensive and I'd imagine the same thing happens here. If they do sign Backstrom to big money, I whole-heartedly endorse this plan. That said, we don't need this year's second round pick to make it happen.
ReplyDeleteAs for the trade thing, I doubt that a guy like Kyle McLaren does anything to "assure we make the playoffs." How much, in terms of standings points, can an upgrade from Theo Peckham to Kyle McLaren on 6th D possibly be worth over thirty games. I'd bet it's less than a standings point. That said, he could probably be had for free given he's in the minors, so unless they have visions of grandeur they may as well ask SJ to hand him over.
PunjabiOil - if you can spring McLaren loose for a later-round draft pick, fine. I'm just not interested in tossing away good draft picks or real prospects for a 2-month rental.
ReplyDeleteI guess I was also trying to not dogpile on T, since I keep hearing that no one wants to move anything at this point because their potential value increaes in the days leading up to the deadline, (which makes sense). The league is full of fans that want their team to make a move now, but none of them are able to, so that tells us something.
That said, we don't need this year's second round pick to make it happen.
ReplyDeleteI think offer sheets work differently than you think they work
Try as you all might, you cannot derail the Dubinsky / Zherdev dual offersheet plan.
ReplyDeleteTry as you all might, you cannot derail the Dubinsky / Zherdev dual offersheet plan.
ReplyDeleteYou were thinking Dustin Penner type offers for those? 1st + 2nd + 3rd?
@BCB: You sellout!!! that Harding plan was my plan hatched on our blog... Always trying to steal my ideas aren't you?!
ReplyDeleteIn all fairness, it's a great plan and I definitely think it's worth a shot. Harding>JDD for sure. They're the same age and the numbers speak for themselves. I did a comparison somewhere once but I don't remember if it was here in a comment section sometime or back on my home base... (Sorry about the blog-jack LT)
But beyond future goaltending issues, Roli has been stellar lately (Buffalo aside) and the real issue right now is on D. I hope MacT is actually smart enough to make sure that 43/49 are never out on a D-zone faceoff with the ?-51-46 line. I'm too young to feel like I'm having a heart attack, especially now that I no longer smoke.
That said, we don't need this year's second round pick to make it happen.
ReplyDeleteI think offer sheets work differently than you think they work
I'm aware we need a second round pick, just not the one for the upcoming draft. We would need to keep the picks from the 2010 drafts to make offer sheets this summer.
Try as you all might, you cannot derail the Dubinsky / Zherdev dual offersheet plan.
ReplyDeleteYou were thinking Dustin Penner type offers for those? 1st + 2nd + 3rd?
Offer Zherdev $3,923,434 which is a 1st and 3rd round pick. Offer Dubinsky $2,615,622 per which is a 2nd round pick.
You can send both of them at the same time and see what happens. Either way the Oilers fill a need - a scoring winger or a 2nd tough minutes center that can win faceoffs. If both accept, Slats might beat Tambellini to death, but hot damn, the roster looks GOOOOOOD next year.
Pittsburgh has several UFA defensemen (Gill, Boucher, Scuderi) and Ryan Whtiney, but they decided to try a coaching change first before making a change.
ReplyDeleteCloser to the deadline, and when Pisani is healthy, I would think Cole for one of PIttsburgh's UFA defensemen is still highly probable.
I could even see a Cole and Petry for Whitney type of deal.
//I hope MacT is actually smart enough to make sure that 43/49 are never out on a D-zone faceoff with the ?-51-46 line.//
ReplyDeleteShepso - that was a brutal combo Saturday so it will be interesting to see if MacT has learned his lesson or does it again.
Cole for Hal Gill at the deadline would be a pretty good deal.
ReplyDeleteGill can be a Huddy style penalty killer, and would ease the burden on Gilbert and Souray.
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ReplyDeleteCoach: While I like your offer sheet idea in principle, It fits the Oilers' needs and targets a team with cap issues. I have some problems with giving up too many draft picks: notably a 1st and a 3rd for Zherdov. He could easily turn into a Penner situation: expensive, lazy, and costing a lot. We don't need two LW like that, we already have one, who is bigger and better in my opinion (folks I am not crapping on Penner here, just make an observation, I like Penner fine).
ReplyDeleteThe other problem with offer sheets is that it alienates possible trade partners. NYR and the Oilers have a good relationship this way, and it would be a problem to continue to piss off eastern teams we could trade with. But since divisional teams rarely trade, I have no problem pissing off MIN, and think the Oilers should be attempting to poach players from the division and drive up their player costs.
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ReplyDeleteI hope you haven't permanently lost the Bryn Smith post, LT. I love the old Expos parables.
ReplyDeleteI'm aware we need a second round pick, just not the one for the upcoming draft. We would need to keep the picks from the 2010 drafts to make offer sheets this summer.
ReplyDeleteAh, I get you. My bad.
An extra fourth or third pick won't help us in the next two years.
ReplyDeleteAgreed, but. Our latter picks are paying off and may still.
Since The Klowe Draft staff.
2001:
Rd#7-Markanen
2003:
Rd#3-Storitini
Rd#7-Brodziak
Rd#7-Roy
2004:
Rd#4-Reddox
Rd#5-Young
Rd#7-Bjurling
2005:
Rd#3-Syvret (Stone)
Rd#4-Trukhno
Rd#4-Van De Velde
2006:
Rd#3-Peckham
2007:
Rd#4-Omark
Rd#5-Kytnar
2008:
Rd#4-Motin
Rd#5-Cornet
Rd#6-Hartikainen
Orginizational depth!
I always find these articles (and fan reaction to them) to be both predictable and galling. NHL owners have over many decades financially sodomized workers and their families, so the idea of feeling sorry for them is outrageous. Wayne Gretzky is going to take some money from North America's idle rich--honestly, I've never liked him more!
ReplyDeleteThe counterargument here is that the Coyotes are haemorraging money, so maybe paying Gretzky more than every other player on the roster isn't such a good idea, considering what the market generally considers fair compensation for a head coach, and especially considering he's not exactly Scotty Bowman. It's less about squeezing "the idle rich" and more about making sure the franchise is financially viable.
Deadline: I figure if we're still in the bubble pack this time next week, it'd be worth tossing a pick and an unused prospect for a UFA defenceman to help shore things up, but I really wouldn't be the farm. It made sense for Pittsburgh, because it got them to the Finals; this team ain't going to the Finals, regardless.
Wonder what TB wants for Marek Malik?
Anyone find it interesting the Oilers season ticket holders early renewal deadline is March 3, just one day before the trade deadline.
ReplyDeleteSchneider to habs:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=267394&lid=sublink01&lpos=headlines_main
Montreal just picked Schneider up for draft picks.
ReplyDeleteIf a first isn't involved, I'm going to be pretty damn disappointed that the Oilers weren't in the conversation.
2nd and 3rd round picks headed to Atlanta.
ReplyDeleteSchneiders good and all, besides being a complete dink, but the guy gets paid too much.
ReplyDeleteHe's got half as many points as Gilbert and gets paid $2.25M more than him.
I'd rather pick up the cheaper more defensive player and spend the available cash on forwards.
Not bad a 2nd & 3rd for the 7th worst G.A. dman in the league. Yet has the teams only + Corsi +3.4????
ReplyDeleteWell that's too bad that Schneider's gone, but have no fear, Reasoner's still available to take face off's if Atlanta still wants to part ways.
ReplyDeleteAnd we might be able to get him for a 3rd rounder too.
Not gonna help our defense, but can't hurt the PK.
BCB - The oilers are going to draft in slots 12-20 for the rest of our existence. Zherdev is better than what they'll find in that slot.
ReplyDeleteWasting resources on "trying" to make the playoffs this year with two top dmen out is stupid. If our mgmt has a clue - which is questionable - the period up to the trade deadline and summer is all about finally having a solid team next fall. That means dealing with 5 main issues:
ReplyDelete#1) cap space - we have a number of guys who simply must be dealt to free up cap space. Staios is clearly #1 given our RFA issues with Grebs and Smid - if it means giving him away for free to a conference rival so be it. Moreau also has to go since a $2 million hit on the 3rd/4th line is not managable going forward - but I'm pretty sure there's a market for him. Cole or Penner is gone - I like Penner better.
#2) Top Line LW - I have really liked what I've seen of Penner with Gagner and if you add Pisani to that line I think it could play the second toughest minutes and do OK. Two shooters and a playmaker - not bad size either. But that opens up a hole on LW for the top line playing the toughest minutes. My choice would be Kostitsyn - young, skilled, affordable, doing OK with tough minutes already - but there are other options and we have the trading chips.
#3) Goal - given the rest of the team we need a cheap effective guy in net to make the salary cap work. JDD is not the answer and neither is DD next year if ever. The Harding idea works (should have drafted him in the first place - I'm sure all Lowe thought of was "French guys are great in net right?" Halak in Montreal could work in a package deal with Kostitsyn as well. We cannot afford a $4-6 million guy in net for the next 2 year - just can't do it. Keep Roloson to backup one more year.
#4) Bottom 6 Forwards - Lowe has taken a traditional strength and made it a weakness. Giving Moreau big bucks, letting GlenX go to a division rival for only a small overpay, signing JFJ to a one way deal, letting a cheap vet like Reasoner go. I could go on but Lowbellini botched this....period. So you start over - get rid of Moreau, keep Brodz, Storts, Brule, Mac, maybe JFJ or Stone can help too. Get some cheap journeymen to fill in the rest of the gaps. With the top 2 lines being...
Kostitsyn Horcoff Hemsky
Penner Gagner Pisani
..we can go cheap on the bottom six as these guys will be playing easier minutes.
#5) Make the decisions on defense. I want to keep both Souray and Vis and I think that having Smid alongside Vis works on the 2nd pair which will be cheaper than Grebs. But we can keep all of Souray-Vis-Gilbert-Grebs if we deal the cap killers like Staios and Moreau and find a way to go cheap in net. But one of Gilbert, Grebs or Smid is trade-bait and we need to make the right decision. Fill out the bottom pair and PB slot appropriately with journeymen vets.
Trade-bait to make this all happen:
Cogliano (not a 3rd line center)
Nilsson (too small)
Cole (no money)
Gilbert-Grebs-Smid (one guy)
Moreau (cap)
Staios (cap)
Pouliot (top 6 center-never played there)
JDD (cap & no talent)
Coach: I don't know about that. A lot of good players are found in the 12-20th spots. For example in Zherdov's draft year (2003) here are a list of players found in the 12-20 spots:
ReplyDelete12) Hugh Jessiman
13) Dustin Brown*
14) Brent Seabrook*
15) Robert Nilsson
16) Steve Bernier
17) Zach Parise*
18) Eric Fehr
19) Ryan Getzlaf*
20) Brent Burns*
The * represent the ones I rather have instead of Zherdov. I know 2003 was particularly strong, but I think it demonstrates that a mid first round pick may be better then Zherdov (once he has developed).
Plus, that doesn't deal with the fact alienating trading partners in the East, might not be worth Zherdov. Vanek ok; or another real superstar. I would use RFA offers to attack divisional rivals and other teams that won't trade with us (BUF and TO). We have to make it worth it.
This team is always going to have issues with regard to injuries. How many of these seasons do you flush because of it?
ReplyDeleteThere's no tradition of making the playoffs here, the longer the team goes between spring 2006 and any kind of playoff appearance the less prepared they are for the second season.
Every. damn. year.
Enough. Make the fricking playoffs.
I don't usually differ with Scott and while it is hard to get into what would constitute a point in the standings, I have a hard time believe we wouldn't be at least somewhat better off with McLaren instead of Peckham or even Strudwick for that matter.
ReplyDeleteAnd we've got the LTI to use because of the 71 injury so I'm all about taking a chance on him. Though he's only played 17 games down in the A and hasn't played since dec:
http://stats.theahl.com/stats/gamebygame.php?id=2633
The habs have enough kids like Paciocretty and Maxwell that they could afford to move out a couple of picks for Schenider. It might be something I'd love to have done if say we weren't missing both 71 and 37 but now that one's gone for the year and the other for the 4seeable future, it might be better just to ride it out.
But, OTOH, why not pick up Avery off waivers - there's an excellent chance he'll outperform that 1.75 mill - and then flip 12 or 26 for a dman that can help us out now and then allow us to salary dump 24 for next season.
LT: can you bring back that Bryn Smith trade? it had had Expos stuff and JFJ talk!!:)
LT: if say 37 or 44 had gone down for the year instead of 71, I'd be talking about trying to bring in a real scoring winger for 89 and we'd take a run.
ReplyDeleteNow, I'm not so sure.
looks like the Habs got Schneider fro mAtlanta for a 2nd this year and a 3rd next year (as per TSN). First domino to fall? Does this mean a ufa next year goes for a 2nd and 3rd? guerin for a 2nd and 3rd? Worth it?
ReplyDeleteDennis: I can't bring back the comments but will re-post it below.
ReplyDeleteAsiaOil -
ReplyDeleteI agree on all the Trade Bait except the Top 4 D man. I think Lubo is the obvious guy to trade due to his age, salary, value (having a great yr before injury).
Obviously this would have to happen in the off-season. Grebs has a similar skill set (not as good but similar), will be at least 2 million cheaper and is much younger. Despite me saying this Oil management will likely deal Grebs.
I can live with a Top 4 of Souray, Gilbert, Grebs, Smid. That is if we can't sign Bouwmeester.
Cogliano I think is the obvious other trading chip. I love the guy and wish there was room for him and Gags but there just isn't especially given their size and how bad they are on faceoffs and Cogs inability/unwillingness to play wing.
I keep Nilsson for at least 1 more year and hopefully Omark or Eberle makes him expendable in 2010.
Do people really think Pisani can be our 2nd line RW next year. Really?
I'm pretty sure Cole won't be either but I sure hope we can use
Cogs & a D man to address 1st line LW and that we can sign a 2nd line RW (Jagr?).
I think Rollie is our Starting Goalie next year whether we like it or not.
Likely Line-Up in 2009-10 Despite our hopes:
27-10-83
12-89-XX (68?)
18-13-34
JFJ-51-46
77-44
71-5
XX-49
Rollie
JDD
Bench - Reddox and 2 others from farm (Stone, Spurgeon) or current roster (Struds).
24 dealt at the deadline. Please somebody take him. Please.
Would mean that 37 is dealt for a cheaper D man or a 2nd line RW.
26 would leave as UFA if not dealt a deadline.
Rollie would be re-signed for 1 more year.
Not convinced that we will ever be able to get a legit Star UFA (Hossa, Bouwmeester). It's going to have to be through a 3-1 deal (Pronger Type) or a former top talent (Jagr).
@AO:
ReplyDeleteI really don't want to dangle cogliano out there. Definitely not a good choice at center but for the life of me this guys seems like he could be one hell of a wing. Breakout long bombs past Dman are likely his more than half the time.
This guy near the blue screams damaging counter attack.
This is exactly what the Expos used to do and it's completely unacceptable. They used to run Doug Flynn out there at 2b or Dan Driessen would come over from SF to play 1b and drive in 22 runs after the AS break.
ReplyDeleteLook, I'm not saying trade a first rounder. I understand this team has had a couple of bad breaks here.
However, Lowe and Co. have shown an enormous ability to uncover gems right in this slot in the order.
Patience my ass. Grebeshkov is gone for a time, we know that. If he's back in time for the second season then so be it.
But, giving up? Waiting? For what? The blue snow?
You can't do this kind of thing and be competitive imo. You're always second guessing and flushing and sports is full of miracle stories that have happy endings.
But the Oilers have their windows of trade opportunity and it's rare that the deal outside those timelines.
I sincerely hope this is one of those times. Schneider's cost (dollars and trade) is probably too dear for this team, I get that.
But what about getting something from the Island? Or St. Louis? Atlanta has some nice things too.
This is no time to wait. No sir.
If Cogs was willing or able to play the wing don't you think the Macblender would have shown it to us by now?
ReplyDeleteI'm not of the fellows who'd try and tell you what to do, LT, but the comments make the thread so if you can't bring them back, it's probably over.
ReplyDeleteTrading Grebs seems questionable.
ReplyDelete3+mil on a four year deal seems a likely outperforming/reasonable contract.
reijo,
ReplyDeleteLogic and the macblender are not synonymous.
If they were: Moreau, Brods and Huggybear would currently be a damn good imitation of last years winner.
I say we try and get my favorite Oiler of all time through the waiver wire right about now. He's just a little older (DOB-1960) then Chelios and should be well rested (retired in '98). He is the puck moving D man that we are missing with 71 & 37 out and he wouldn't cost us a thing.
ReplyDeleteMy only concern would be Slats might claim him so we would have to give him a heavily back loaded 2yr. deal.
LT - When baseball went on strike in '94 do you think it was collusion to eventually get the Expos to move to Washington?
Dennis: No worries. I had to delete it anyway, damn thing did something to blogger (must be the photo).
ReplyDeleteI'm thinking F. Kaberle on re-entry waivers at 1.1 million per might be the best bet at this point. Takes a top-four spot for now, and then when they sink extra money into Grebeshkov next season, he's the Staios replacement on the 3rd pair.
ReplyDeleteMakes a ton of sense.
reijo: No. It was Bud Selig and Steinbrenner in the world's ugliest circle jerk.
ReplyDeleteHey everyone, just wanted to send out a thank you in case the current bid comes from someone on this board. I see that with just under 3 hours to go, the price is still pretty low so if anyone is looking for solid Battle of Alberta tickets on the cheap, scroll up to my previous post.
ReplyDeletereijo: No. It was Bud Selig and Steinbrenner in the world's ugliest circle jerk.
ReplyDeleteAaaaaand I'll be drinking until I can't remember this GDT.
If Gretzky is making $7 million+ it's almost certainly for tax or business structure purposes. He's part owner of the team, isn't he? In principle, the proportion of the coyotes annual losses equivalent to his shareholding would come out of his pocket. It may be that his salary rises to cover his share of the losses so he never actually loses money. Or it may be in his contract that a greater equity stake will vest in him if he ever loses money, and the salary prevents the other shareholders from having their equity diluted like that. Or it may be beneficial for tax purposes for some or all of the owners to drive up the Coyotes losses by paying him that much.
ReplyDeleteThere are dozens of reasons other than greed why Gretzky might get paid that much, but I guess sports hacks don't bother looking into things like that.
The * represent the ones I rather have instead of Zherdov. I know 2003 was particularly strong, but I think it demonstrates that a mid first round pick may be better then Zherdov (once he has developed).
ReplyDeleteYou might want them, but the Oilers don't draft people that you want ;)
I agree with LT, make a trade if you can.
ReplyDeleteI think some guru's here are too hung up on the idea of rebuild-make the run-rebuild-make the run- continue.
The problem with this is that if you look at the Cup winners, few follow this approach on such a dramatic scale. Many have been fluke runs, others have been teams that have long standing excellent management, and others have just been teams that got lucky in building.
I think that 'rebuilding' is a lot like taking it easy in the last 3-4 games at the end of the season because you have a playoff spot secured. It sounds like a good idea, but its hard to get that winning attitude back again.
I trade for a playoff battler type of a guy for a 2nd or a 3rd. I also put the trigger on something big, but I like to trade.
ReplyDeleteKaberle - There's a reason he's on waivers. Even at 1.1 he's dead money.
ReplyDeleteDubinsky - I think in 2 years he's the next Mike Richards. Go after him.
Kostitsyn - If we're going to keep Horc as our #1 then we need a better upgrade at LW than Kostitsyn.
A couple prospects I'd like to acquire - Oskar Osala, Viktor Stalberg.
Trading Cogliano over Gagner - soon to be regretful.
Going for the playoffs this year - fools gold.
Ryane Clowe - another prime RFA candidate for next year.
Roli, Staios, Moreau, Nilsson, Gagner, Pouliot, Reddox, Schremp, Chorney - all should be in play in order to aquire a legit player to play with Hemsky.
Omark - another 3 points today. I think he's up to 58 points in 55 games. SEL points leader.
Teemu Hartikainen - up to 17 goals in the FNL. Broke Sami Kapanen's rookie scoring record in the process.
#2) Top Line LW - I have really liked what I've seen of Penner with Gagner and if you add Pisani to that line I think it could play the second toughest minutes and do OK. Two shooters and a playmaker - not bad size either. But that opens up a hole on LW for the top line playing the toughest minutes. My choice would be Kostitsyn - young, skilled, affordable, doing OK with tough minutes already - but there are other options and we have the trading chips.
ReplyDeleteIt's a PPG line with Penner. The need is for a second LW. Kostitsyn ain't it.
Ever since he got schooled by Peter Pocklington on a 21-year contract for just $5 MM total, Wayne Gretzky has always been a careful man with a buck. His investment in ownership involved dipping into his name and reputation but not so much his pocketbook.
ReplyDelete***
Rickibear: Nice list, minor point that Syvret begat Pottulny, not Stone.
***
I agree with LT of the importance of making the playoffs. It's the minimum standard of a successful season at any time, and after two years on the outside looking in this group needs the experience of a successful stretch run, coupled with exposure to the post-season. I well remember Gretzky's Oilers of 1979-80 going on an 8-2-1 roll after trading for Ron Low at the deadline, squeaking into 16th spot (out of 21, of course). They were "blown out" three staright by the first-overall Flyers, exceptGame One went to OT and Game Three to double OT and we in the stands could practically watch the players growing.
The next year another late season drive took the Oilers not just into the playoffs but on an express train through montreal and right into the second round where they dealt the powerhouse Islanders 2 of their 3 post-season defeats. Only then were they poised for success, and it was a maturing and confident team that started dominating in the regular season in 1981-82.
Now I'm not suggesting this team is that calibre, but you got to start somewhere. We got way too many guys on this squad with 0 GP in the playoffs, especially the guys who will still be around for the next serious run in '10 or '11. Hopefully those guys will have broken their playoff cherry before such a run.
In a way that first playoff experience is like that first cup o' coffee in the NHL, where the guy goes back down to the A with an eye-opener about what big league pitching is really about.
I don't think it likely that if Mclaren was brought up on re-entry, he'd still be available when the Oil's turn rolls around.
ReplyDeleteAs for trading for him, I suspect the asking price is too high since he's still with the Sharks and other team's must have taken a shot at him.
Besides, he's a prefect insurance policy for the Sharks.
For Dmen, I suspect Kuba would be the easiest to get out of the non-Burke teams, at around Schneider's price. Maybe Chorney and a 2nd.
As for tough centres...
Gratton I don't mind as a short term solution, if he manages to make it through re-entry to our spot.
I'd be taking a shot at Weight from NYI, not Guerin.
As for wingers, Tkachuk makes me leery based on his past playoff appearances. The cost is almost certainly too high if there's any kind of bidding war, which there likely is.
@ Spoiler: I would have agreed with you on the Weight vs. Guerin thing had ol' Dougie not gotten hurt about four games ago. He's likely done for 6 weeks, so he'd be of no use to us. At least Billy can put puck in net.
ReplyDeleteThis team didn't even have the balls to stick up for Grebeshkov after someone tried to end his career. The playoffs are about a team that bonds and battles for each other and it's quite evident that our players either don't get a shit about each other or are too bitch to stick up for each other. Either way, blowing resources to ensure this team of pushovers makes the playoffs would be silly.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't want this team to trade anything of value in an attempt to make the playoffs.
ReplyDeleteA 3rd round pick and one of the suspects sure, but to give any more could end up burning the Oil in the years ahead.
They could aquire a top four D-man for a 2+ and a good prospect and easily miss the playoffs anyway.
Give this team another year to grow and then start talking about mortgaging the future.
Damn I thought he was back sooner than that.
ReplyDeleteI'd sooner have players supposedly getting screwed over by owners, and being able to afford to buy tickets, rather than see a bunch of high school dropout multi millionaires prancing around on the ice, more concerned with their investment portfolios than beating the crap out of the other team's players.
ReplyDeleteCall me old school.
As a fan of prospects, it's kind of exciting thinking about Taylor Chorney's NHL debut and Theo Peckham's first real audition. As a fan looking at the Oilers prospects of making the post-season, this news is depressing.
ReplyDeleteNice wordplay, LT.
I personally think if guys like Morris, Kuba, Leopold, and Schneider are still available, it won't hurt to acquire one of them for the stretch run/playoffs.
If we agree that this team needs some high compete guys who bring some physical play as well as goal scoring, then guerin becomes an option. he's not ideal, but if you add him to the lineup we have 3 depth lines:
ReplyDelete27-10-83
nilsson-gagner-guerin
pisani-cogliano-cole
pou-brod-moreau
that's 4 solid lines, and if it only costs us a 2nd or 3rd round and maybe a prospect then that's not a bad lineup down the stretch. and it still gives us some cap flexibility going into the off season where we can make some moves/signing and make a decision about the defense and a top line LW.
Jesus, never thought I'd do this, but I almost agree with both Traktor and Hunter here...at least in theory. My gut agree's with your sentiments, but my mind and heart aren't quite there yet...
ReplyDeleteHowever, as LT alluded to, there is really something to be said for team and individual player development by playing in a playoff round. Nothing builds chemistry in the room more than actually accomplishing something. Given the jekyl and hyde identity this team has had and the huge gaps between the personalities of the older and younger players, getting in could be really great for them, even if they don't get very far. If they do get in, regardless of who they face, they'll push and challenge the opposition, even if they roll over and die in the first game. For Cogs, Sammy and Tom, a playoff game or 6 would be really great experience, and the desire to really compete and battle for the other players would only increase. Nothing brings a team together like a little taste of playoff magic, even if its 1997esque rather than 2006.
Prime examples: last years B's and Flyers. They both got a little taste of playoff hockey last year during a rebuild and regroup phase and now they're legit contenders this year, whereas the Pens, who made it to the big dance and then lost some really key components are now shitting the bed. If we keep this core in place and do a small push this year, it will lead to a tighter, more cohesive team next season and future longer runs.
Coach if you've got a better (read realistic) option from an availability and cap perspective than a kid like Kostitsyn who is playing tough minutes and putting up solid underlying numbers at a $3 million cap hit over the next 2 years then I'd like to see it. The guy can score, play a solid two-way game and I think he's bloom into a true sniper with Hemsky.
ReplyDeleteSo I've been looking at who is out of the playoffs, and who might deal UFA's, etc. And a somewhat crazy idea came to me. Not sure if i like it, but would anyone do this deal:
ReplyDeletePenner, 2nd, prospect or 2
for
Ryan Smyth and Jordan Leopold
Basically it is a do over for KLOwe and company. the Avs save $2 million per year, get some picks and prospects and go into rebuild mode. the oil get a more proven scorer, heart and soul player who had chemistry with hemsky and horcoff. It is a big financial burden and i would assume most of us would not do the deal. but the thought has got me thinking. Or do I need a drink.
Or do I need a drink
ReplyDeleteI would say get a drink, the Oil didn't want Smyth at that money because players who play the game the way he does become bitten by the injury bug in these years of their careers.
Like i said I'm not sure I would want to do it. Hossa for $7.5 mill might be a better fit, but there has been something missing from this team since Ryan left. And by adding him, maybe you can jettison Moreau and Staios and the management won't worry about the lack of leadership in the room.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletePrime examples: last years B's and Flyers. They both got a little taste of playoff hockey last year during a rebuild and regroup phase and now they're legit contenders this year, whereas the Pens, who made it to the big dance and then lost some really key components are now shitting the bed.
ReplyDeleteThe Pens contract situation was a mess without trading for Hossa. It was like old baseball teams- 24 one year contracts!
Orpik, Malone, Roberts, Laraque, Eaton, Ruutu, Hall, Conklin were all unrestricted. Fleury was a huge ticket RFA and Malkin was a year away from being the biggest ticket RFA and Staal was a year from getting 4 mil per.
At the deadline, they had four guys under contract for more than a year.
They mortgaged the future for Hossa, but they really didn't have a future - they had to make their run last year.
I don't think it likely that if Mclaren was brought up on re-entry, he'd still be available when the Oil's turn rolls around.
ReplyDeleteAs for trading for him, I suspect the asking price is too high since he's still with the Sharks and other team's must have taken a shot at him.
I'd have to check the CBA, but I'm not sure if we get a free pass through waivers if we get his rights. It'd suck to acquire him, recall him, and lose him on re-entry waivers.
@Coach: Agreed, the Pens contract situation was a mess prior to the Hossa trade. My point in bringing them up in the same breath as last years B's and Flyers was the fact that the year before, the young Pens managed to get into the second season, didn't go far but helped with team chemistry and allowed them to make the great leap forward to the big dance last year. Their management failed to keep key secondary components last year on the Hossa rental, which IMO was a dumb call, despite the otherworldly talent Hossa has. I think they sacrificed some major minor players if that makes any sense, some of whom should have been kept longer and the Pens would not be in the mess they're in... And Hossa would still likely be playing for the Wings this year...
ReplyDeleteMy point is this: A trip to the second season would do our really young core some good and maybe give the vets (even the younger vets like Hemmer, Penner and Horc) something to really compete for. A little push would give the team the feeling that they're heading in a positive direction, especially after the last two years of non-playoff springs. It is a sign of good faith to those under contract, and to the fans to actually put up a fight and try to get in, rather than play dead. If they were going to be going for the Tavares cup, they should've tanked a long time ago...
Coach if you've got a better (read realistic) option from an availability and cap perspective than a kid like Kostitsyn who is playing tough minutes and putting up solid underlying numbers at a $3 million cap hit over the next 2 years then I'd like to see it. The guy can score, play a solid two-way game and I think he's bloom into a true sniper with Hemsky.
ReplyDeleteMontreal has six unrestricted forwards due, including four of their top six. There is no package that the Oilers could offer that would not be an overpay for Kostitsyn in this scenario. A team with four of their top six as UFAs is not going to then trade their best signed forward. Kostitsyn isn't realistic at this point.
Some people love that "sniper" word.
All of you debating about whether the Oil should go for it this year or not are missing one huge factor, both KLowe and CraigMacT stood on a pedestal and announced that the Oilers would make the playoffs this year. So, they have essentially hung their credibility on the line. Given the type of people that they are, they see this as a personal issue. So my point is, it doesn't matter what they should do, they are going for it.
ReplyDeleteI think they sacrificed some major minor players if that makes any sense, some of whom should have been kept longer and the Pens would not be in the mess they're in... And Hossa would still likely be playing for the Wings this year...
ReplyDeleteI agree. I wouldn't do that trade if Armstrong is involved, period. I don't mind Christensen, Esposito, the picks...but man, Armstrong was getting his sea legs. And now he's showing it for Atlanta - playing strong minutes and drawing even, and the underliers look good.
I'd love an offer sheet for him this summer.
I would say that any 'rental' coming our way involves us absorbing a silly salary of some kind for the remainder of the season. An extra million doesnt mean much to us here, but in many cities facing economic doom, it could mean a lot.
ReplyDeletePenner, 2nd, prospect or 2
ReplyDeletefor
Ryan Smyth and Jordan Leopold
NO!!!!!!!!!! Now go away or I shall be forced to taunt you a second time.
Gretzky outright denies making 7 mil/per:
ReplyDeletehttp://calsun.canoe.ca/Sports/Hockey/2009/02/15/8399261-sun.html
Denials aside, he does have more than one role on the team (director hockey operations, general promotor guy, etc.) which may justify him making a bit more than other NHL coaches.
I haven't thought about what it might take, but Ryan Smyth would solve a lot of problems for this hockey club.
ReplyDeleteI haven't thought about what it might take, but Ryan Smyth would solve a lot of problems for this hockey club.
ReplyDeleteWould he?
How long is his contract for?
3.3 more years at $6.25 MM per, or $2 MM a season more than Penner. He's also 7 years older. Is this the type of contract we need to be locked into in, say, '10-11?
ReplyDeleteI haven't thought about what it might take, but Ryan Smyth would solve a lot of problems for this hockey club.
ReplyDeleteOh dear god. Make it stop.
for the love of god: no more Ryan Smyth talk.
ReplyDeleteDo we really want to go back two years? I would prefer to remember him in his prime, then watch him fade away. Can't we keep the good memories, and not spend three years bitching about how Lowe saddled with his immovable terrible contract.
I haven't thought about what it might take, but Ryan Smyth would solve a lot of problems for this hockey club.
ReplyDeleteOh dear god. Make it stop.
Don't worry, this can't actually happen, so you should view it as a thought experiment. I don't think Lowe could possibly bring himself to lay out so visibly that he messed up the first time around when he traded Smyth.
It's not a thought experiment, it's emotionally violent, mutual...hair growing on your palms.
ReplyDeleteRyan Smyth is exactly what that top line needs, and I haven't checked but he's a terrific power v power player.
ReplyDeleteIs Colorado talking about dealing him?
I haven't thought about what it might take, but Ryan Smyth would solve a lot of problems for this hockey club.
ReplyDeleteDon't worry guys, I am pretty sure that LT means as Coach, GM, Assistant Coach, or Assistant Towel Boy.
Let's look at this a little closer. Smyth is still facing tough opposition with subpar mates according to Desjardins. He's not scoring a lot at EVs and that's a concern but he's climbing the big mountain again this year. His boxcar numbers (58gp, 18-26-45 -9) have him leading his team in scoring.
ReplyDeleteHis cap numbers over the next three seasons is 6.25M.
Dustin Penner is the 4th leading point-getter on the Oilers despite big minutes with Hemsky. He is certainly inconsistent and his boxcars (53gp, 14-14-28 +2) are top 2lines but not the vaunt.
His cap number is 4.25 over the next 3 seasons.
His EV/60 (5x5) according to Desjardins is 2.06, better than Smyth's 1.83 but Penner's also playing with better 'mates.
What am I missing here people? Why is this such a bad deal?
Whenver I find myself in
ReplyDeletePat Lowbellini's position,
I ask myself,
"What would Ryan do?"
He, of course, would take a puck to the face.
Now, I don't expect Mr Lowbellini to do that.
I expect expect him to trade Cole to Buffalo for Spacek
and a pick
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteLT, the Smyth deal is bad for me, because it ties up 11 million in cap space for two LW that have historically demonstrated that they can't get Hemsky to the next level. Unless Penner is going back for Smyth, I could not make myself to this trade. Smyth is more likely to play like an old man at the end of his contract, then Penner is. Smyth would be good for this year, maybe next, but who would you rather have in 10/11 or 11/12? Smyth would be untradable till the deadline of 11/12, and costs 2 million dollars more with the cap going down.
ReplyDeleteRyan Smyth is exactly what that top line needs, and I haven't checked but he's a terrific power v power player.
ReplyDeletePenner-Horc-Hemsky have played 25 games together this year:
Horcoff: 7G 15A
Hemsky: 12G 19A
Penner: 10G 11A
29G in 25 Games for a line.
They have outscored.
What the first line needs, is to play together
I'd gladly deal Penner for Smyth. It would be fine for this year and probably the next two years as well. I'm pretty confident Smyth will outperform him pretty handily over that stretch. The only question would be the last year of the deal IMO.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteis smitty gonna cry when he leaves colorada
ReplyDeleteI loved the line "Smyth is more likely to play like an old man at the end of his contract (than Penner)"
ReplyDeleteI can definitely see Penner starting his do-over at professional sports when he's 35. Since he's playing himself into shape he should be fresh and ready for 6-7 years as a 1st baseman or a fullback once he's finished coasting through the NHL watching his linemates do all the heavy lifting.
two LW that have historically demonstrated that they can't get Hemsky to the next level.
ReplyDelete25G with penner 12G 19A 1.24Pts/GM.
Hemsky loves the space he gets with Penner.
This is the first time I have seriously said anyting like this.
You are wrong!
LT said: What am I missing here people? Why is this such a bad deal?
ReplyDeleteYou are missing your bias..Cue Pouliot and Smid
Newsflash..Smyth was a good player not a great player
The first line, as-is, is fine.
ReplyDeleteIf this team is dealing for a LW upgrade, they've got to do better than Smyth to justify taking on additional salary.
We're talking Alex Frolov, Simon Gagne, Ilya Kovalchuk....etc. Either an established sniper or a guy who might hit a new level playing with 83.
The Oilers have bigger problems than the first line though.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete...besides Horsmithski just sounds silly
ReplyDelete@RB: why am I wrong? Because of 25 games. What about last season. Hemsky-Penner-Horcoff had some sucess in Dec and Jan, and once the pivot was hurt I didn't see Penner-Hemsky ripping it up. Penner's big body has helped, but he is not a savior for Hemsky . . . I hope I am wrong but until Hemsky puts up over 1 Pts/GP for an entire season, I think I have a defendable position. A couple months last year and 25 games this does not prove your point (it helps it but a lot could still go wrong this season).
ReplyDeleteItem for discussion: Pierre Maguire's "Team Canada 2010", unveiled about an hour ago on TSN.
ReplyDeleteCrosby Lecavalier Iginla
Nash Getzlaf Heatley
Gagne Thornton J. Carter
Morrow M. Richards Doan
EXT: Savard
D: Boyle, Bouwmeester, Burns, Green, Niedermayer, Phaneuf, Weber
G: Brodeur, Luongo, Price
For the record, I did a mock-up a week ago and picked the exact same 13 forwards, with an expectation that Eric Staal or Jonathan Toews could push Savard for the 13F spot.
Defense is where I have disagreements. Outside of perhaps Bouwmeester, I leave ANY of those guys at home for Pronger. There's no way they don't take Regehr, and I like Duncan Keith as an option over a guy like Brent Burns. If it was me, I'd swap out Phaneuf, Niedermayer, and Burns for Pronger, Regehr, and Keith. You can't take that many kids on the blueline and expect to beat the Russians.
In goal, the first two are automatic, but Steve Mason is a stronger case right now than Carey Price for the 3rd goalie spot.
"If this team is dealing for a LW upgrade, they've got to do better than Smyth to justify taking on additional salary. We're talking Alex Frolov, Simon Gagne, Ilya Kovalchuk....etc. Either an established sniper or a guy who might hit a new level playing with 83."
ReplyDeleteI agree, well said Hbomb.
This is an honest question and I'd be interested in people's thoughts on it.
ReplyDeleteAssume that Lubo and Grebs are gone for the year. The Oil have averaged 2.76 GF/G and 3.04 GA/G with them in the lineup. Assume that that's a true measure of the Oilers GF/G and GA/G abilities with them in the lineup. With them gone, what do you expect the Oilers to do?
To provide some sense of scope, the worst team in the league at offence (NYR) is average 2.35 GF/G and the worst team in the league on defence (TOR) is allowing 3.59 GA/G. I would think that the Oilers won't turn into the worst in the league at either as a result of these losses.
re: Team Canada
ReplyDeleteThe pundits seem to have consensus that Neidermayer is a lock. I don't buy it, he seems to be slipping in my mind, and who knows where he is in another year. I could be wrong, he may be the next Chelios.
I like Duncan Keith there as well.
Just for the record, I'm not an anti-Smyth guy. In fact, I'm rather disgusted about how he's discussed in some circles as being greedy. I think Lowe erred badly by not offering him 25 over 5 in summer 2006 as opposed to the 12 over 3 "Lowe-ball" offer he did reportedly receive. IMO, that gets him to extend and he retires an Oiler, his number potentially going to the rafters at the end of it.
ReplyDeleteI just don't see him as worth the extra 2 million a year over Penner at this point.
geowal: Duncan Keith might be in Alex Frolov territory when it comes to being an underappreciated commodity.
ReplyDeleteI'd say Bouwmeester's in this group too. IF he signs in Edmonton or some other hockey-mad market this summer, the guy is going to start getting mentioned in the same word as the word "Norris" a whole lot more often.
Tyler: I'd say the loss of both added to the addition of Peckham and Strudwick will cost the Oilers a goal or two a week. Not huge, but when the margin or error is razor thin it's a needless risk.
ReplyDeleteHBomb: Yeah, I think the whole Smyth situation went so crazy it's almost impossible to discuss it rationally.
For the record, I was fine with the deal that sent him to NYI and remain convinced they'd made their decision on him after G7 SCF. The brain trust blames him for not stepping up in the game imo.
Nothing else makes much sense.
So with 8 weeks left, you figure that it costs them something between 8 and 16 goal differential, or somewhere between 0.33GD/G and 0.67 GD/G.
ReplyDeleteSeems like an awful lot to me.
Have you seen the third pairing?
ReplyDelete:-)
Lowetide: I don't see how you pin it all on one guy in a game where the whole team was flat. But overall, in the Cup final, when compared to Pisani and Horcoff, two guys who are still here playing the toughs, Smyth was average-to-mediocre.
ReplyDeleteOne so-so seven game stretch does not define a hockey player though.
For the record, I was fine with the deal that sent him to NYI and remain convinced they'd made their decision on him after G7 SCF. The brain trust blames him for not stepping up in the game imo.
ReplyDeleteNothing else makes much sense.
My understanding was that it was decided that a long contract for that money was not worth the risk for a player that plays in front of the net as they start to break down later in their career (ala Craig Simpson). Besides Smyth was a bit like the rest of the Oilers at the time with a hot/cold thing going on. I have nothing but respect for Smyth, but I don't think the trade was in any way inexplicable.
So, does this seem like one of those games where the Oilers forget to show up? Playing a team that totally sucks and should be an easy win...we will see.
ReplyDeleteCarey Price doesn't make my top 15 for Team Canada goalie at this point. He is inconsistent to put it politely, or to be frank, subject to total fucking meltdown without notice. The last guy I want to put in the pressure cooker until he proves otherwise, which is going to take more than one year in my book.
ReplyDeleteTo me Marty Turco is in the discussion.
"I hope I am wrong but until Hemsky puts up over 1 Pts/GP for an entire season, I think I have a defendable position. A couple months last year and 25 games this does not prove your point (it helps it but a lot could still go wrong this season)."
ReplyDeleteAt this point in the season Hemsky is a ppg guy, and nothing in his recent play suggest he'll drop off, if anything I expect him to make up ground lost on the league leaders during his injury.
Hemsky: 45G 17G 31A 48P
HBomb: Nothing else makes sense. The Oilers had until July 1 to sign UFa's (Roloson, I believe Pisani) and then they should have done the Smyth deal.
ReplyDeleteThey chose other players to sign and didn't (as I understand it, it's a small town) talk to Smyth about an extension despite his pushing for it.
That tells me they felt differently about Ryan Smyth at that time.
does anyone have a link for tonights game being streamed?
ReplyDeleteIf the Olympics started today, Turco >>>> Price no question.
ReplyDeleteLuongo for sure, and Brodeur depending how he looks post-injury.
Both Masons, even Cam Ward are above Price at this point in my mind.
If you're making a 27/94 deal with Col, the Avs have to take 24 back to even out the monies.
ReplyDeleteLT: where's your line the sand when it comes to giving up an asset for a move? I don't want to give up a 1st and we'll need a good player in return if we're giving up a second.
I'd move one of Wild or Petry or Chorney, though, because there's no way we can develop all three.
Yeah, I think the whole Smyth situation went so crazy it's almost impossible to discuss it rationally.
ReplyDeleteThat's Lowe's worst fault. He's too emotional and personal.
When you let personal feelings and emotions get involved you often make bad decisions.
Negative emotion mistakes: Comrie to Anaheim breakdown, Smyth re-negotiation)
Positive emotion mistakes: Staios/Pisani raises
Taking things personal is great when you are a player, not so much as management.
Like most decision makers, Lowe is at his best when emotion is not involved
Maybe the Smyth thing was as simple as Lowe wanting to make room for the big UFA fish that he writes into the roster in pen before cutting a bunch of solid contributors loose.
ReplyDeleteHe was supposedly after Chara the summer after the run.
Woodguy: Excellent post. I don't know that there's anything you posted that one can disagree with there.
ReplyDeleteDennis: I wouldn't trade Nash, Eberle or Peckham among the prospects and as time rolls on I think we need to talk about both Omark and Hartikainen. I'd also keep the 1st. After that, it's all good.
If I wake up tomorrow and find out Cody Wild is in St. Louis and we have a veteran D coming back it's a good day.
Hemsky-Penner-Horcoff had some sucess in Dec and Jan, and once the pivot was hurt I didn't see Penner-Hemsky ripping it up.
ReplyDeleteGagner and Stoll are not Horcoff.
If you look at the Pts/GM pace in that period you can probably tell when the young three got put together and Stoll played with Hemsky and Horcoff.
Other than the First 20 games of the season last year. Post cup to fat period for penner. Nov.18 on. Any one who watched last year saw the fitness transition and comfort level that formed right at that point. It was like a switch was turned on.
The line has been
O7-08:
34 games
Horc: 14G 19A
Hemmer: 8G 24A
Penner: 9G 11A
You know this years stats.
I look forward to next year when they will have 87 regular season games together.
Both Masons, even Cam Ward are above Price at this point in my mind.
ReplyDeleteYou know that list I was mentioning that includes guys like Keith and Frolov, underrated quantities?
Cam Ward would be on a list, but it's an opposite to this one. The guy is grossly overrated and shouldn't even be in the suggestion.
If they're not going to take a young'n as the third goalie, I'm on board with the Turco suggestion. Guy has been stone-cold on his game since that horrible start he had this year.
I'd also add that Lowe liked pronger so much he handed him a golden parachute and us a big of anchors.
ReplyDeleteLast time I remember Lowe making a clear-headed move was when he dealt a on-his-way-down Niinimaa.
I loved Janne and he played hurt with a back injury that whole season and lowe rewarded him with a deal.
Still, that's his job and it's better to be ruthless than be an idiot.
Hbomb: Don't get me wrong, I don't want Cam Ward there, I just want Price less. If there's NHL at 2014 that's another story, but at this point Price hasn't shown he can handle the pressure in Montreal, so a hometown Olympics would presumably be worse.
ReplyDeleteI think it is going to be on
ReplyDeletehttp://www.justin.tv/sharks2077
but it is not really working for me.
If any of you young fellows was thinking that Kalinin would be available from the Rangers,
ReplyDeletethink again
A gentleman on Versus mentioned during the Rangers-Blues game
that Hale is hurt and Kalinin's services will be needed in Manhattan
Here's a working link:
ReplyDeletehttp://atdhe.net/live-tv-2.php?i=845
People keep ignoring that the EIG owned the Oilers when Smyth was traded. Edmonton had a $42M budget. Prendergast was lobbying in the press for a $37M cap.
ReplyDeleteI was considerably worried that signing Smyth longterm for $5.5M.
After that trade, during the offseason, is when katz fired his first PR salvos at the EIG, and they began spending like madmen.
Its not as cut and dry an 'emotional' reaction like you guys are suggesting.
here and now, its easy to say it was a bogus decision, but the landscape was completely different when the decision was made.
Mrs. Getrude Inkpen: Great name. Say hi to Dave for me. :-)
ReplyDeletehere and now, its easy to say it was a bogus decision, but the landscape was completely different when the decision was made.
ReplyDeleteAll the worse that the money was lavished on Moreau and Staios.
thanks a bunch tyler. where did you find the link? its not listed on atdhe.net ?
ReplyDeleteI got clever, copied the link from the last NHL game that started before this one and then changed the id number by 1.
ReplyDeleteWhat can I say, I'm a computer genius. ;)
bravo. well done.
ReplyDeleteTyler - Good thinking, I looked for that link in my history and couldnt find it. That should work through the whole season as it is the Yahoo link
ReplyDeleteIs anyone else having a problem with getting the posts? From time to time, I just get the header and all the elements on the right side but the body of posts is gone.
ReplyDeleteAnyone else having trouble with this?
People keep ignoring that the EIG owned the Oilers when Smyth was traded.
ReplyDeleteMy understanding from someone pretty well connected with the EIG was that it was largely a board decision to take a hard line.
Is anyone else having a problem with getting the posts? From time to time, I just get the header and all the elements on the right side but the body of posts is gone.
ReplyDeleteI had that earlier today for about 15 minutes. I am just on the posting page and staying there. (the page with the white background).
I should be clear, staying on the Posting page seems to be the safe way not to lose the page.
ReplyDeleteWhat the first line needs, is to play together
ReplyDeleteKeep banging the drum, Ricki. Eventually a fourth person will start to listen.
What am I missing here people? Why is this such a bad deal?
First line's not the problem. Penner's not the problem. Granted, he's not a half-wit that tries really hard and wins the heart of central canada, but he's not the problem.
@Bruce from a few weeks ago Coach: What makes you confident Hemsky could make the shift to LW any better than Cole did? Cole's game suits the off-wing, but Ales is very heavily dependent on his forehand, to the point that when he passes from the left side he will almost always do a spinnarama rather than a backhand feed. Sometimes it even works, but it is not a play I'd like to see him forced to make on a regular basis.
It was sarcasm. Read through the thread and you can see my POV.
So, are we officially playing Roloson until his legs fall off, or do we actually have a backup goaltender somewhere?
ReplyDeleteThe first line might not be the problem but does anyone doubt that it would be better with 94 than it is with 27? Improvement's improvement, no matter where it happens.
ReplyDeleteGeez, who is writing Gene's stuff tonight, Hallmark?
ReplyDeleteWow. Taking a holding penalty on Jason Strudwick.
ReplyDeleteWould it kill Penner to win that freaking puck battle behind the net? Instead of half-heartedly reaching for it? All he had to do was use his body and an ounce of energy and Hemsky picks that puck up...
ReplyDeleteChrist.
PDO: AND in a pretty big game. Come on 27!
ReplyDeleteBig men always look lazy. Frank Mahovolich looked lazy, for crying out loud.
ReplyDeleteIf Gagner scored on that rush, I would have called Perreault :)
ReplyDeleteBig Frank did look lazy and like he wasn't interested from time to time, but he scored 30 or more 10 times.
ReplyDeleteWow these Yotes broadcasters are terrible.
ReplyDeleteAnd once again the Oil make Tellqvist look better than he is.
Bob:
ReplyDeleteHow often did Frank Mahovolich stand beside his man, waving his stick with one hand?
I'm not asking for Penner to even move his feet more.
Just lean on the guy.
Leave Dustin Penner alone, he's practicing for the All Star game.
ReplyDeleteSignificant blow to Dallas as the playoff race heats up.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteI'm not asking for Penner to even move his feet more.
Just lean on the guy.
Whoh whoh whoh!, hold on, don't get all radical here. You expect miracles from the guy, go see a preacher or a prophet. Penner is just a multimillion dollar hockey player.
From my point of view, that's the kind of blase period that an especially good team comes out of with a one goal lead. What with the 05/06 team's depth, the 06/07 team's complete lack of anything good going for it, and 07/08's bipolar results, it's been so long since I feel like I've watched an Oilers team nearly as average in so many ways as this one.
ReplyDeleteLowetide said...
ReplyDelete"If I wake up tomorrow and find out Cody Wild is in St. Louis and we have a veteran D coming back it's a good"
LT the Blues just beat the Rags and are 6 points out with 2 in hand over the Ducks.
Sleep well.
Good period by Roli.
ReplyDeleteFaceoffs a little anomalous:
Gagner 3-0, 100%
Brodziak 4-2, 67%
Cogliano 3-2, 60%
Horcoff 2-5, 29%
Oilers 12-9, 57%
Hits officially 8-7 Phoenix, but the only hit I remember, by Zorg on the defensive end boards, wasn't credited. That's a real "hit" or miss stat, isn't it?
LT the Blues just beat the Rags and are 6 points out with 2 in hand over the Ducks.
ReplyDelete@FCM: That's a little disingenuous. Ducks might not be in a playoff position at the end of the night. If the Oil win, the Blues are 7 back of CBJ with a game in hand.
You know that I'm no wide eyed optimist when it comes to the Oilers but I'm having a hard time writing them off. We're 55.33 games into things, their sketchy GD is largely due to three games...even with Grebs and Lubo out, I still like their position.
If I was the GM of one of the teams below EDM in the standings, other than maybe MIN and NSH, I'd have a hard time convincing myself that my team was still realistically in it.
You know that I'm no wide eyed optimist when it comes to the Oilers but I'm having a hard time writing them off. We're 55.33 games into things, their sketchy GD is largely due to three games...even with Grebs and Lubo out, I still like their position.
ReplyDeleteYou know, that is way to levelheaded to even bother posting, where is your rant? Where is your agony or blind optimism? Get dramatic man!
So....Did the shoot out start yet?
ReplyDeleteStop icing the puck you goddamned ECHL losers!
ReplyDeleteHuh. The Phoenix guys are doing the old "blowout MLB game in August in a bad season for the local team" that radio guys do. Sure glad I know what they think about the NBA all-star game though.
ReplyDelete1st period chances: 10-8; 7-7 EV; 3-1 ST
ReplyDeleteAn awful game to watch.
So, Columbus lost today, eh? Shame about the loser point. Blue Jackets Blue Jackets Blue Jackets.
ReplyDeleteSomeone needs to remind the Oilers this isn't a matinee.
ReplyDeleteEveryone (Phoenix included) is fighting the puck.
If you look at the Pts/GM pace in that period you can probably tell when the young three got put together and Stoll played with Hemsky and Horcoff.
ReplyDeleteHemsky's stats without Penner are the most telling.
Theo Peckham, strong like bull.
ReplyDeleteFantastic work by Peckham there to stand up for his goalie... kid looks like he's a decent scrapper.
ReplyDeleteWay to go, Theo. Can't have guys running our goalie.
ReplyDeleteWhoa. Peckham could have hurt him badly there at the end if he hadn't held up.
ReplyDeleteGood to see him stand up for the goalie.
Same linesman (Heyer) as MacT called out after the LA game?
ReplyDeletePerfect.
Steve Goertzen! Yeaaaah! Former St. Albert Saints representing!
ReplyDeleteWhy in the name of 7-pound-8-ounce baby Jesus is Staios getting PP time?
ReplyDeleteWe've known for years such a thing is just plain stupid.
Holy hell if Roberto Nilssonte doesn't pot one tonight he's going to need three slump busters.
ReplyDeleteHBomb: You prefer Strudwick?
ReplyDeleteStaios actually made a decent play there with the slap pass.
Fricking Gagner should be playing for the '74 Flyers. Filth-eeee!
ReplyDelete@RB: why am I wrong? Because of 25 games. What about last season. Hemsky-Penner-Horcoff had some sucess in Dec and Jan, and once the pivot was hurt I didn't see Penner-Hemsky ripping it up. Penner's big body has helped, but he is not a savior for Hemsky . . . I hope I am wrong but until Hemsky puts up over 1 Pts/GP for an entire season, I think I have a defendable position. A couple months last year and 25 games this does not prove your point (it helps it but a lot could still go wrong this season).
ReplyDeleteYou're wrong. Since the beginning of last season, when playing together, there are only 12 lines that outscore them on a PPG basis*.
*Disclaimer, this is best estimate because I don't know when the other lines were taken apart on a game-by-game basis.
Bruce: I think we're at the point where they need to go with a 4F/1D PP alignment. They don`t have much choice.
ReplyDeleteBruce:
ReplyDeleteCole played the point last year on Carolina. Went on a fucking tear too.
LT:
Nilsson could solve his problems with.... this.
Steve Goertzen! Yeaaaah! Former St. Albert Saints representing!
ReplyDeleteHey, he's not the only one in this game. And there would be three if Pisani's ankle were ready to go.
Or I fail at HTML.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.bbw-hq.com/02-chubby-babes.jpg
PDO: This what?
ReplyDelete