Friday, August 24, 2007

SP 67-83

I've asked twice before on HF but still have some "gaps in the database."

Does anyone know an internet site that has goalies save percentages during the expansion era 67-83?

I have some of them (and do have a copy of the Klein and Reif Hockey Compendium but it's the edition w/o SP's through the years) and any help would be appreciated.

This is Gilles Meloche, a splendid goalie for the California Golden Seals in the early 70s. I have a theory that Meloche and Ken Dryden are much, much closer in terms of ability than any current system of statistical analysis reflects.

How to prove it? Haven't a freaking clue. However, I'd like to have those SP's as a starting point.
at

14 comments:

  1. ShannonFriday, August 24, 2007 at 6:35:00 PM MDT

    I find that for all things goalie related, your best bet might be to check out Brodeur Is A Fraud.

    http://brodeurisafraud.blogspot.com/

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  2. James MirtleFriday, August 24, 2007 at 8:21:00 PM MDT

    LT, do you have save percentages from 1983 until now? I'd love to see that data.

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  3. LowetideFriday, August 24, 2007 at 8:37:00 PM MDT

    james mirtle: Yeah, I've had them for years AND they're on the hockeygoalies.org site.

    For instance, Gilles Meloche's SP for the final 6 seasons of his career are there:

    82-83: .887
    83-84: .868
    84-85: .879
    85-86: .881
    86-87: .881
    87-88: .868

    I have Meloche's SP from 75-76 (courtesy hockeydb) which is .890 in a season when he made 1130 saves in 41 games. Dryden had a .927SP the same season, 1531 saves in 62gp.

    Dryden averaged 25.66 shots against/60 that season, with a blueline of Savard, Robinson, Lapointe and Don Awrey.

    Meloche averaged 27.78 shots against/60 that season, with a defense that featured a 19-year old Rick Hampton, Bob Stewart, Mike Christie and Len Frig (who is #6 in the photo for those who are interested). George Pesut was also on that team, a terrific skill D who left the NHL at 23 and retired at 40.

    Dryden was .20 better than his backup, Meloche was .04 better than Gary Simmons.

    That's just one of the seasons, I'd like to have a closer look. It's fun stuff, this.

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  4. vbFriday, August 24, 2007 at 11:50:00 PM MDT

    You can try this group:
    http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/hockey_summary_project/files/HSP%20Specific/

    More raw data though - you might have to do come compiling yourself.

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  5. LowetideSaturday, August 25, 2007 at 12:27:00 AM MDT

    vb: Thanks for the tip. I've asked and am hopeful.

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  6. Chris!Saturday, August 25, 2007 at 9:34:00 AM MDT

    Those are both really interesting sites. Thanks for bringing them up.

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  7. Bill NeedleSaturday, August 25, 2007 at 9:58:00 AM MDT

    Lowetide, do you have a basement full of California Golden Seals memorabilia that you're trying to unload? You write about the Seals almost as often as the Oilers.
    Could this be a pump and dump??

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  8. AnonymousSaturday, August 25, 2007 at 10:31:00 AM MDT

    LT I have the info on Meloche from 81-82 also from my Klein-Reif and thats 1473 saves 1648 shots...the version I have (1986 softcover) doesn't have data prior to that...although it does have comprehensive WHA numbers

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  9. AnonymousSaturday, August 25, 2007 at 10:31:00 AM MDT

    umm sorry think thats .894 for 81-82

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  10. AnonymousSaturday, August 25, 2007 at 10:33:00 AM MDT

    the other goalie that year for Minnesota was Beaupre 805/906

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  11. vbSaturday, August 25, 2007 at 11:31:00 AM MDT

    LT: I just looked more closely and it appears they only have complete data for a few years. Regardless, this is how you can calculate it if you wish.

    Click the Files link on the upper left.
    Click NHL Regular Season Data Files.
    Download the 1967-stats.zip file and unzip it.
    Open the 1967-goalieperiod.dat file. Copy and paste it in Excel. Then choose Data -> Text to Columns...
    In the popup choose Delimited -> Click Next
    In the next screen choose Other and type in this character |
    Now click finish and you should have goalies for each Flyers game with the shots against and goals against.

    I just calculated Bernie Parent had a .927 SP in 1967.

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  12. vbSaturday, August 25, 2007 at 12:24:00 PM MDT

    I just noticed, there is no additional data in the range you are looking for except 1970. Here are the numbers I calculated.
    KEN DRYDEN 0.963
    JACQUES PLANTE 0.941
    GLENN HALL 0.928
    SMITH 0.928
    DOUG FAVELL 0.922
    GERRY DESJARDINS 0.921
    BERNIE PARENT 0.921
    GILLES VILLEMURE 0.920
    TONY ESPOSITO 0.920
    ED GIACOMIN 0.920
    GEORGE GARDNER 0.919
    GUMP WORSLEY 0.918
    GERRY CHEEVERS 0.918
    PLASSE 0.917
    GILLES MELOCHE 0.917
    CESARE MANIAGO 0.916
    ROGATIEN VACHON 0.916
    ED JOHNSTON 0.912
    PHIL MYRE 0.908
    DAVE DRYDEN 0.905
    AL SMITH 0.903
    ERNIE WAKELY 0.902
    CHARLIE HODGE 0.901
    LES BINKLEY 0.900
    ROGER CROZIER 0.900
    JOE DALEY 0.898
    DENIS DEJORDY 0.898
    ROY EDWARDS 0.891
    JACK NORRIS 0.890
    BRUCE GAMBLE 0.890
    GARY SMITH 0.889
    GILLES GILBERT 0.887
    JIM RUTHERFORD 0.879
    DUNC WILSON 0.879
    GERRY GRAY 0.872
    DON MCLEOD 0.849
    CHRIS WORTHY 0.848
    CAM NEWTON 0.835
    BOB SNEDDON 0.800

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  13. LowetideSaturday, August 25, 2007 at 1:01:00 PM MDT

    vb: Bless you! Lordy, you computer guys amaze me. That's terrific stuff, I appreciate it. At first glance it implies Plante's season (and I did know his SP was exactly that, .941) is not as impressive as has been made out in various places.

    The gap between Plante and Hall isn't THAT massive, and the median for that season would be well past 900.

    Thanks again. :-)

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  14. DennisSunday, August 26, 2007 at 7:27:00 PM MDT

    I don't give a fuck, those Seals unis are awesome!

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