This is Norm Ferguson. He finished 2nd in Calder voting as a rookie (to Danny Grant, I believe) and popped 34 goals in his freshman NHL year. He came from Sydney, Nova Scotia and ended up coaching the Oilers farm team for years (89-96) when they were the Cape Breton Oilers.Oakland and San Jose will always be linked together in my mind. Clearly they are close in distance, plus there is the Gund family involvement. Also, San Jose had a dispersal draft of Minnesota North Star players when the club expanded into the NHL, which was the exact destination for all Golden Seals players and prospects when Cleveland fell.
The Sharks are an interesting team. They look good, but secondary scoring was a problem and Thornton appeared injured again. Inexperience among young defenders and shameful decisions among some of the veteran defensemen seemed to add to their downfall.
I thought San Jose would win it all this season. Ron Wilson is a smart guy, at some point he'll figure it out and the Sharks will win the thing. I can't help feeling though that this was their season, and the team they lost to (Detroit) worked a lot harder and smarter.
If you're Ron Wilson, what does that tell you about your team?
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ReplyDeleteIf I'm Ron Wilson, I'm seriously asking myself one question:
ReplyDeleteWhy was I making it a war of attrition, when I had the best forward in the conference on my team?
He had the horse. He didn't ride him. It cost him the playoffs in my mind.
As for the young D - it's interesting. Mostly because it was a comedy of errors by McLaren (let's pinch with an empty net) and Hannan (up the middle in OT? Good plan!) that ultimately cost them G4 and likely series as well, as they were never the same team after that implosion.
But I still think those plays never even matter if the horse was ridden like he damn well should have been.
It's gotta chap their asses that the Ducks have just passed them again and pulled themselves up from nowhere. Meanwhile, SJ's made it to the second round for the last three years and couldn't get over the hump this year.
ReplyDeleteThen again Lowe didn't give them Pronger for nothing either;)
I'd imagine that both Marleau and Thornton were nursing injuries and that had a lot to do with how things fell apart. There's no doubt that all the mistakes on the 2-2 goal in G4 plus Hannan's comedy of errors in OT started the snowball, but I'd have to imagine that a couple of the key guys were hurt and that blowing that game took a little of the starch out of them, and that combined with being injured just finished them.
I haven't closely analyzed the shift charts, and I only half watched the action, but it strikes met that neither Playfair nor Wilson ever made the right adjustments to counter Babcock.
ReplyDeleteIn particular, Wilson just seems like such an arrogant SOB that he would continue to say "if our guys play the way they can, we will win this." Trouble is, Babcock was busy making all the little adjustments in his lineup and matchups in order to stifle the Sharks.
Once the Wings managed to get their down low possession game going, they just started beating San Jose line for line.
" I can't help feeling though that this was their season, and the team they lost to (Detroit) worked a lot harder and smarter."
ReplyDelete.....think DET may have learned a little something from a team that used this approach to take them out last year?
Wilson's smart alright- problem is he isn't as smart as he thinks he is - and this is the 2nd year in a row he had as good or better a team and lost.
I doubt this is their last crack. Like the Flames, they've got one more year and they'll be able to add pieces yet again because they have plenty of cap space. After 07/08, they're going to have some trouble.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, SJ's made it to the second round for the last three years and couldn't get over the hump this year.
ReplyDelete______
Actually, they made it to the 3rd round back in 2004.
I don't know what's worse - getting swept or losing in a fashion like the Sharks in 2006 (8 minutes away from being up 3-0 in the series when Torres scores a semi-weak goal, Oilers eventually with in triple OT) or Sharks in 2007 (33 seconds away from being up 3-1).
For the record, I've always been a fan of Hannan. No offensive game, but he can log up minutes effectively.
When Sinden/O'Connell jammed them on their salaries early in their careers, the Bruins were right about Samsonov (a point that's now obvious to everyone) and they were right about Thornton (though most people just won't admit it). Golden Boy, last year's MVP - *cough* - has never made it past the second round. And each time he fails, we hear about how he was hurt but didn't divulge until after he flamed out.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, there is a lot more missing from the Sharks than experienced defenceman. For instance: who is the 'leader' on that team? If your answer is Marleau, then you automatically know the team has issues.
ReplyDeleteI think the series against Edmonton last year told you everything you needed to know about the San Jose Sharks.
San Jose rode the cap pretty tightly this season. With Rivet, Hannan, and Guerin all being UFA and assuming they have at least an RFA or two to worry about I can't see them having as good of a roster as this year for anything less than next season's cap maximum.
ReplyDeleteHowever, they do have significant tradeable assets. When they finally decide to get rid of a goalie they will save some money and should be able to get someone for him that can help immediately. If Marleau is really someone they're thinking of moving you know they can get help for him as well. Finally, cheap veteran defensemen a la Witt/Hill etc have moved for draft picks in recent years and IMO if San Jose really wants to win next season they've got to be making at least some of these moves.
As for the team to win it all this year? I honestly can't see how any team in the West can challenge its conference finalists this season. My pick to make the SCF is still Anaheim but last year's Red Wing team with this year's Hasek in net would have just crushed the Hurricanes IMO and this year's edition, injuries included, is almost as impressive.
PS - I meant to add a note of accord with pdo. I think Thornton played great in these playoffs and that if he got even a few extra shifts per game against anyone but Lidstrom things could have been different. Besides the offense it seemed like his line drew a penalty every time they got the puck in the Red Wing zone. If you want to sound a definite alarm about what killed the Sharks, it wasn't leadership issues, inexperience, or anything like that. It was pure and utter special teams futility.
ReplyDeleteSan Jose rode the cap pretty tightly this season.
ReplyDeleteThey still found room to take Malakhov's salary cap hit from trusty ol' Lou in New Jersey, didn't they?
Methinks they still got some room.
Well, you can only ballpark it at this time of year but they've got 2 goalies, 4 dmen and 12 forwards on the hook for 07/08 for $34.2MM. There are no significant RFAs and Rivet, Hannan and Guerin are the only UFAs.
ReplyDeleteThat means they have $14-15MM to spend on a couple of forwards and 3 dmen without moving any salary out the door. I'd say that's plenty of cap room to make that team better.
Then again Lowe didn't give them Pronger for nothing either;)
ReplyDeleteThis is why I have a hard time blaming Lowe for the trade. Shouldn't we be blaming the other GMs who wouldn't outbid Anaheim. How does this work? Lowe phones Doug Wilson, tells him that Burke's offer is Smid+Lupul+picks, and Wilson says "Whoa, too rich for our blood, let Burkie have him"?
Doug Wilson SHOULD have upped the ante, at the very least forced another team to pay more for Pronger. The way I see it, the other GMs in the league got out-bid for the best D-man in the world by a team that ALREADY HAD one of the best D-men in the world! Whose fault was that?
I think that Lowe for all his heart, or all the scouts hearts, believed that Smid and Lupul was a good package.
ReplyDeleteThis makes Lowe, at least on that day, a very stupid man. And it also drives home the point that if that was the best deal that anyone in the league was offering, then it was best to let Pronger sit for the season and then deal him for a dman that has more upside than Smid and a forward who doesn't require soft min and then does more than fuckall when he gets them,.
I think the biggest fault of the Sharks is that, while they have an impressive set of forwards, it's pretty much a monotonous bunch. All are big up & down guys who don't do much besides playing catch along the boards or go down a straight line and shoot. Besides Thornton, there's a serious lack of creativity. I think they can use a few waterbugs who are inclined to play more of a east-west game and can distribute the puck to their heavy shooters (seemingly every forward). Even if that guy bleeds GA, it might still be worthwhile tradeoff.
ReplyDeleteDennis, to follow your comment, I was brought close to rage today when Stauffer once again said "Getzlaf was never in play" in the Pronger talks.
ReplyDeleteFUCK THAT. The Oilers were dealing CHRIS FUCKING PRONGER. Everyone on the damn Anaheim roster should have been in play. EVERYONE.
It continues to piss me off that the Edmonton media makes excuses for not getting guys from Anaheim in return (Matheson did so related to Beauchemin this past weekend or the weekend before), trying to justify and defend a trade which, outside of what Smid might be in 3 years from now, yielded a piss-poor return.
Yeah, Tyler, I mean, Jesus Christ, you're dealing one of the best dmen in the world and you're gonna listen to Burke when he says you can't have Beauchemin and you can't have Getzlaf.
ReplyDeleteHoly fuck, there are a lot of stupid people out there. To hear some guys tell it, we're lucky we didn't wind up with Ryan Shannon and Kent Huskins.
It was a brutal deal, no justifications needed
ReplyDeleteKevin Lowe's words, ''I'm giving you a ticket to the Stanley Cup Burkie''
''Okay Kevin, I'll add another first rounder if we make the finals''
That's how the conversation went down, according to Burke.
Yikes.
Lowe overestimated Lupul's ability. While he's still young and he has proven he can put the puck in net in his 2nd NHL season -- and I would be willing to give him another year -- that's simply not enough for a guy like Pronger. The GAB theory proposed by Dennis may have been prevalent.
I was impressed by Smid though. He'll have to work on his shot, but at 20 years of age, he's given me reason to believe he'll be a solid defenceman in the NHL. Just not right away...
Waiting was the obvious solution if there were no other good deals on the table - but alas, Lowe didn't see it that way
As for the Sharks, there's only 1 team that wins the cup.
ReplyDeletePerhaps it's just the case they were beaten and outplayed by a very good Detroit team
Well, you can only ballpark it at this time of year but they've got 2 goalies, 4 dmen and 12 forwards on the hook for 07/08 for $34.2MM. There are no significant RFAs and Rivet, Hannan and Guerin are the only UFAs.
ReplyDeleteThat means they have $14-15MM to spend on a couple of forwards and 3 dmen without moving any salary out the door. I'd say that's plenty of cap room to make that team better.
If you believe the dailies Rivet is SJ's number one priority while Hannan is a maybe and Guerin is probably on his way out. I'm not going to guess at salaries but assuming Rivet is signed that still leaves a couple of D and a couple of F to sign.
I imagine SJ's kids on defense are generally making very low dollars. To me, their inexperience on the back end has been their downfall in each of the last two play-offs. Following this line of thinking they will probably have to spend more to actually improve what they've got at the back and that further strains their budget if they want to get better. It is my assertion that an SJ team just as good as this one won't win the Cup next season either.
All this said, I also mentioned earlier that the Sharks have a lot of outs and there are a lot of ways to make it all work. I just don't see a championship coming on a budget any time soon.
If you believe the dailies Rivet is SJ's number one priority while Hannan is a maybe and Guerin is probably on his way out. I'm not going to guess at salaries but assuming Rivet is signed that still leaves a couple of D and a couple of F to sign.
ReplyDeleteI imagine SJ's kids on defense are generally making very low dollars. To me, their inexperience on the back end has been their downfall in each of the last two play-offs. Following this line of thinking they will probably have to spend more to actually improve what they've got at the back and that further strains their budget if they want to get better. It is my assertion that an SJ team just as good as this one won't win the Cup next season either.
All this said, I also mentioned earlier that the Sharks have a lot of outs and there are a lot of ways to make it all work. I just don't see a championship coming on a budget any time soon.
The point about Rivet being the priority over Hannan is interesting. I get the idea that San Jose feels they can get Rivet cheaper so that they can save some dollars for a run at a guy like Timonen.
San Jose's missing a really high-end d-man who can move the puck. If they can move out Hannan and replace him with Timonen, that might put them over the top. I see them as making a hard run at Nashville's star blueline Finn.
Yeah, Tyler, I mean, Jesus Christ, you're dealing one of the best dmen in the world and you're gonna listen to Burke when he says you can't have Beauchemin and you can't have Getzlaf.
ReplyDeleteHoly fuck, there are a lot of stupid people out there. To hear some guys tell it, we're lucky we didn't wind up with Ryan Shannon and Kent Huskins.
Honestly, if Burke called Lowe and said "I want Pronger, but you can't have Getzlaf OR Beauchemin in return", Lowe should have told him to go fuck himself and hung the phone up right there.
And I'm not even that upset about not getting Beauchemin. I'm not the guy's biggest fan and think he's a bit overrated. But we took a 2nd rounder from the Ducks when they essentially GAVE away Vitaly Vishnevski a few weeks later (was it for a 3rd rounder? I can't remember exactly).
So you take Vish instead of the 2008 2nd rounder and instead of Lupul, the 1st this year AND the conditional first, you take Getzlaf.
Getzlaf, Smid, and Vishnevski
for
Pronger
Considering the guy is neck-and-neck with Nik Lidstrom for the title of "best d-man in the game today", I do NOT think that's an unreasonable demand. You get d-help for now, d-help for tomorrow, and a forward to play with Hemsky for the long-term. Hell, having Getzlaf here would have made the Smyth deal a hell of a lot more palatable, wouldn't you think? Especially considering Getzlaf can play C or LW and it would have given the option to move Horcoff or Stoll to save some dollars in order to secure Smyth long-term.
Heck, when I think about it, I would be happy with just Smid and Getzlaf if it came down to it....knowing that we needed veteran help on the backline and the fact that Vishnevski was basically a give-away to Atlanta makes me think that he could have been had in addition with minimal argument.
I saw the series, and it says something when Detroit's soft forwards were outhitting and outgritting San Jose. That was the difference imo. Mike Grier was one of the most noticeably Shark forwards - they needed more grittier - willing to do whatever it take guys out there, and they didn't have it.
ReplyDeleteThe GAB thing is flat-out real. It seems like the FOG thing gets way more play but the GAB idea has been around for way longer.
ReplyDeleteI've had it bookmarked for awhile so I'm not sure if it's a sub or not but the SF Chronicle is a really great paper. Good Sharks coverage and I've been following the Warriors lately too.
ReplyDeleteSome pretty good sharks stuff in there since their collapse, stuff lieke Wilson not naming names but if he did their first ones would be patrick, bill and kyle.