This is Floyd Hillman. He is wearing the jersey of the San Fransisco Seals of the old WHL (pro, like AHL) league. The Seals folded when Oakland became an NHL team in the fall of 1967.Floyd Hillman played only 6 games in the NHL, but his two brothers (Wayne and Larry) both had quality careers for several teams.
It seems as though some of the deals offered to Edmonton for Chris Pronger last summer are coming out, which should be fun to watch as things roll out.
The San Fransisco Chronicle has the nuts and bolts of players discussed and I have not seen them reported previously.
I am unable to link to the article, but if you google Ross McKeon Ducks will be rewarded for offseason move it should pop right up. Here's the money quote:
The Sharks could have been in on the Pronger Sweepstakes. In fact, most insiders felt this all along was a two-team proposition. But the Sharks did not want to talk once the asking price started from a list that included Matt Carle, Milan Michalek, Steve Bernier and picks.
I hadn't seen that one in print before.
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ReplyDeleteInteresting and yeah that Sharks rumour that they were involved kept popping up.
ReplyDeleteBefore some get caught up in things this is supposedly what Lowe asked for and not what the Sharks offered. I kind of wonder if that is also the case with the Panthers as well that what Kevin asked for is what is being rumoured rather than what the Panthers actually offered.
Is this now the 2nd rumoured deal that Lowe pushed for too much and the other team said if that is the price we are out?! Is it possible the market for Pronger was not as good as we seem to imagine and the deals being offered were less than we assumed they would be?
And my question is this:
ReplyDeleteWhy were asking for so much more from SJS than we were from Anaheim? That's a shade off of what I've heard we were asking for, but it's in print, so we may as well run with it.
I can't be the only person here who would've thought Michalek and Carle would've been an acceptable deal, can I?
In fact, I'd take Michalek and Carle over the deal we got every day of the week and twice on Sunday... never mind Bernier/Picks as well.
I think Dennis has been right all along: Kevin Lowe ridiculously over-rated Lupul and Smid, and wanted his magic number of 5 shiny new things for Pronger (Michalek, Carle, Bernier, + PickS = 2 picks, = 5 assets!).
Bernier, Michalek, Carle and picks - if SJ balked at this would they have gone for two of the three?
ReplyDeleteI like Smid but I would have taken two of those guys plus picks and been happy.
Anyhow, I think there is no doubt that "our" wishlists last summer may have been wishful thinking (ie/Panthers trade proposal) but I would still have to think Lowe could have done better.
If SJ had pulled the trigger on that pricey deal, I think they would have become the pick of the litter in the west. Pronger is exactly what they're missing, and their shortsightedness landed them Rivet who was good but not enough to keep them afloat on the backend. It's a bit of a shame, but then again not that much since I despise the overall arrogance of their organization from top to bottom.
ReplyDeletePDO - Here again you are assuming that is what the Sharks offered.
ReplyDeleteWhat if it was a few packages in a pick what you like best scenario.
Such as:
Package 1 - Carle, prospect, 1st rounder, 2nd rounder
Package 2 - Michalek, D prospect, 1st rounder, 2nd rounder
package 3 - Steve Bernier, D prospect, Marcel Goc, 1st rounder
The speculation could be endless but it may not have been as nice of a combination as we are hoping, thinking it was.
Lowe says well I will take the best parts of all 3 packages and SJ says we are done here. That is as possible as picking out the best guy and assuming they were all or most included together.
Still too vague for me to take that and say Lowe screwed up not going for it.
OilerDieHard:
ReplyDeleteRead my post again, and read the quote again.
I said that the Oilers were asking for a LOT more from SJS than they were asking from Anaheim.
There's no assumption there, it's exactly what was in the quote.
Michalek >>>>> Lupul.
Carle >> Smid
Bernier > 1st + 2nd
Picks > Conditional Picks
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/05/27/SPGMHQ23H11.DTL
ReplyDeleteThere's the link.
I really don't know what to make of Carle, I think he's a great playmaker but has a long way to go before he can play in the top four. Is that about right, do you think? Heading into this year, I thought Michalek had the speed of Dvorak but also the hands as well;) Turns out I was wrong about that but if we had Michalek, then we'd at least have one true "player" from the Pronger bounty rather than hopes and wishes with Smid and three picks plus a waste of soft min in the overpriced Lupul.
There's no assumption there, it's exactly what was in the quote.
ReplyDeleteMichalek >>>>> Lupul.
Carle >> Smid
Bernier > 1st + 2nd
Picks > Conditional Picks
Okay if there is no assumption then why are you comparing the whole ANA package against all the names mentioned?
Your example could be just as easy as saying:
Lupul, Smid, 1st round in 07, 1st round in '08, 2nd round in '08
against the following:
Carle, propsect, 1st + 2nd round picks '07
I would take the Anaheim deal hands down here. Smid is going to be a good player (not a superstar but a very good D man) and I hope Lupul can either turn into something half decent or be packaged in a deal for something that will help the team.
I think we can probably assume that Lowe wanted Michalek, SJS offered Bernier. Lowe maybe wanted Carle, SJS offered a lesser player.
ReplyDeleteThat's what I got out of it. I do agree though that the Pronger deal turned on the real v. imagined value of Joffrey Lupul.
I don't see any evidence that Carle is a much better prospect than Smid, and the draft picks have value but no matter the outcome of those players (whether chosen by EDM or dealt) the one thing we can measure from the CFP trade is that it flushed a full season.
Which is why they should've held on to him for a year.
ReplyDeleteODH:
ReplyDeleteasking price started from a list that included Matt Carle, Milan Michalek, Steve Bernier and picks.
I read that as the Oilers saying "we want Carle, Michalek, Bernier and picks."
That's the asking price.
Lowe's gone as far to pretty much admit that Lupul and Smid and picks were the asking price for Anaheim.
That's a massive discrepancy.
i read the quote
ReplyDelete"asking price started from a list that included Matt Carle, Milan Michalek, Steve Bernier and picks. "
as pick x amount of assets (lets say 4 in this case) from the list of 5
If your collecting proposed deals the Toronto papers shortly after the deal stated Lowe asked for Kaberle + Steen + 07' 1st overall.
ReplyDeleteNot sure how much stock I put in that however as Kaberle is pretty much the only proven player I've heard in Pronger rumours so it seems likely Lowe was purely interested in picks/prospects not proven NHL players.
"The Sharks could have been in on the Pronger Sweepstakes. In fact, most insiders felt this all along was a two-team proposition."
ReplyDeleteSo many insiders felt that were only two teams in the NHL legitimately interested in giving up the goods required to aquire Pronger is basically what they are saying here.
I don't think thats right but I also don't think there would have been anymore then 5-6 teams in the running.
"But the Sharks did not want to talk once the asking price started from a list that included Matt Carle, Milan Michalek, Steve Bernier and picks.
So basically the Sharks didn't even want to negotiate if getting Pronger required giving up any of their players that are both young AND good.
We still don't know if the Sharks even bothered to make an offer after seeing the type of players Lowe wanted, but this quote implies that they didn't.
The one that I've heard that I'd love to see verified OR discounted is the rumor that the Kings offered Visnovsky AND Frolov for Pronger.
ReplyDeleteIf this was indeed on the table and Lowe didn't get past the whole "five assets" thing and realize "Hey, Visnovsky is a top-ten NHL defenseman when it comes to offense from the back end, and Frolov is a potential complement to Hemsky for the next ten years", the only honorable thing to do would be to commit hara-kiri.
Michalek has been on my radar for great young talent since the SJS series last Spring. I still think that Raffi Torres may have had the most productive series of his life just by scoring that 3rd period goal in game 3 and knocking Michalek out.
ReplyDeleteHere's a question though: were SJ and ANA really the two frontrunners? If so, was this because they both saw themselves as being primed to contend? I hope so because the other answer that comes to mind is that Lowe became enamoured by players he "saw good" over a short period of time. I realize I am reaching here but given how much weight he gave to his "few mill under the cap then trade deadline" strategy, his praise for Buffalo's roster strategy that really hasn't technically worked yet but looked great for a year, his quick trade of Pronger so as not to cause a Comrie situation... what I'm saying is that he's a guy that learns well from the past but I think that he "learns" too quickly and without sufficient evidence.
Lol, has anyone ever really used a Comrie reference to suggest Lowe isn't patient enough?
If your collecting proposed deals the Toronto papers shortly after the deal stated Lowe asked for Kaberle + Steen + 07' 1st overall.
ReplyDeleteAnd a year afterward, that starts to look mighty attractive, comparatively.
As for the Kings rumour: What SweatyO said. Not that I think it's likely, but shee-it, if it were...
And like I noted on Tyler's site, the occasional Luongo-for-Pronger fantasy floats into my head. Of course, that would've been far too clever for Keenan, and far too win-now for Lowe, given what else he seems to have been looking at.
But Kaberle, Steen and 1st round 2007 can't be the case! Those aren't five assets! ;)
ReplyDelete